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	<title>Comments on: Debate: Is F1 challenging enough?</title>
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		<title>By: james steventon</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-2/#comment-127005</link>
		<dc:creator>james steventon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 05:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-127005</guid>
		<description>I believe that F1 could be more challenging for a number of reasons.
I except the argument that the cars are considerably different from
those of past decades, down on power, more downforce and driver aides etc etc. However, nobody mentions the fact that the circuits have
changed also. 
 Old circuits, such as Hockenheim, Imola, and even Monza have been
altered in recent years in an attempt to slow down the cars. I appreciate that following the San Marino Grand Prix of 1994 that
changes like this were bound to happen, however, I believe the sport
has suffered to a certain degree because of this.
 For instance, compare the classic, original Hockenheim circuit to its
modern counterpart. The original had huge, 200mph straights which 
resulted in tight chicanes. Perfect for overtaking. The new circuit is
no where near as exciting, for the t.v watching punter, as the original.
 And, even more worrying, are the new circuits. With these other 
Herman Tilke built arenas, the biggest talking point is almost always
the facilities. It should be, wow, what a great track this is, not at how flash the pits look or the corporate suites are!
 I like that fact, that, F1 drivers like Kimi Raikkonen for instance
are always talking about how much they love racing at Spa for instance, rather than some of the more glitzy new circuits.
The reason for this is obvious. The old circuits offer more of a
challenge to the driver because the driver knows fully that he is at risk of going off the road and in a big way. Which plays a huge part in why they do it in the first place.
Second, give the cars greater power! Prove to the public that F1 is a &#039;true&#039; racing series, where the &#039;best&#039; and only the &#039;best&#039; can
compete. If it means running slick tyres instead or grooves, so be it.
F1 is a spectator sport, lets make it a spectacle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that F1 could be more challenging for a number of reasons.<br />
I except the argument that the cars are considerably different from<br />
those of past decades, down on power, more downforce and driver aides etc etc. However, nobody mentions the fact that the circuits have<br />
changed also.<br />
 Old circuits, such as Hockenheim, Imola, and even Monza have been<br />
altered in recent years in an attempt to slow down the cars. I appreciate that following the San Marino Grand Prix of 1994 that<br />
changes like this were bound to happen, however, I believe the sport<br />
has suffered to a certain degree because of this.<br />
 For instance, compare the classic, original Hockenheim circuit to its<br />
modern counterpart. The original had huge, 200mph straights which<br />
resulted in tight chicanes. Perfect for overtaking. The new circuit is<br />
no where near as exciting, for the t.v watching punter, as the original.<br />
 And, even more worrying, are the new circuits. With these other<br />
Herman Tilke built arenas, the biggest talking point is almost always<br />
the facilities. It should be, wow, what a great track this is, not at how flash the pits look or the corporate suites are!<br />
 I like that fact, that, F1 drivers like Kimi Raikkonen for instance<br />
are always talking about how much they love racing at Spa for instance, rather than some of the more glitzy new circuits.<br />
The reason for this is obvious. The old circuits offer more of a<br />
challenge to the driver because the driver knows fully that he is at risk of going off the road and in a big way. Which plays a huge part in why they do it in the first place.<br />
Second, give the cars greater power! Prove to the public that F1 is a &#8216;true&#8217; racing series, where the &#8216;best&#8217; and only the &#8216;best&#8217; can<br />
compete. If it means running slick tyres instead or grooves, so be it.<br />
F1 is a spectator sport, lets make it a spectacle.</p>
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		<title>By: salva</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-2/#comment-102406</link>
		<dc:creator>salva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 18:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-102406</guid>
		<description>one of the things I like about motor sports is the uncertainity of results, your motor could blow in the last turn, and the race end for you!

But by now, F1 are incredible resilent, top temas never abandon, so if someone made a nice gap, he certainly win the race (as in many of these season bored races)...

I think that FIA would focused in promote development, so confiability will decrease: for example, regulated size of gasoline chamber, then each team would imporve their motors,a nd then some experimentation would be made... And in the futre might this tech could be used in low-gas consume cars!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one of the things I like about motor sports is the uncertainity of results, your motor could blow in the last turn, and the race end for you!</p>
<p>But by now, F1 are incredible resilent, top temas never abandon, so if someone made a nice gap, he certainly win the race (as in many of these season bored races)&#8230;</p>
<p>I think that FIA would focused in promote development, so confiability will decrease: for example, regulated size of gasoline chamber, then each team would imporve their motors,a nd then some experimentation would be made&#8230; And in the futre might this tech could be used in low-gas consume cars!</p>
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		<title>By: Alianora La Canta</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-2/#comment-57545</link>
		<dc:creator>Alianora La Canta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-57545</guid>
		<description>The way the cars are designed to make the most of the rules is changing every year because the rules change in major ways each year. That means that every year, the cars are substantially different, leading to different driver attributes being emphasised. So the rules may benefit smooth drivers one year and aggressive-turning drivers the next - or put particular emphasis on one perfect qualifying lap one year and on producing slightly slower pace several times in the same hour in another.

This on its own would not produce the effect that rookies often beat their more experienced team-mates. However, many of the older drivers (certainly those who began in 2001 or earlier) come from a generation who did not have to change their technique so often, because major rule changes were less frequent. Previous examples of rule changes which changed the face of the grid include grooved tyres, which played well to the likes of Mika Hakkinen, but caused major problems for drivers like Damon Hill, who struggled to adapt to them.

Several of the drivers also appear to have got to the stage where they are stuck in a rut created by refusing to let go of driving behaviours that worked for them in the past but don&#039;t work now. Ralf Schumacher has been in that mode for several years, but he&#039;s no longer the only one.

Then there&#039;s the paddock&#039;s short memory. It has long been the case that a driver who didn&#039;t get good results for 2-3 years in a row could pretty much assume that their career was sunk. With the paddock being less patient (largely due to manufacturer and sponsor pressures) results are now generally demanded within a year.

The quality of rookies has also improved, as many of you have said. A lot of these drivers have a decade or more of pre-F1 experience. When Rubens Barrichello and David Coulthard started their careers, only very talented kartists or people struggling for funding would consider staying in karting long enough to get that kind of experience. Even Michael Schumacher had only 7 1/2 years of experience before reaching F1! As a result, drivers are coming in with much more racing experience. Increased manufacturer funding for a handful of drivers also gives those drivers more time to work on racing elements rather than sponsor-chasing elements.

There are two things that are too easy about F1 as a whole, though - defending position and recovering from minor mistakes. The advantage in overtaking situations is heavily with the defenders, and push-to-pass will make that even more so. So people like Lewis Hamilton are impossible to pass because the aero situation is silly, not necessarily because Lewis is any better at making his car wide than anyone else. In the cars of a decade ago, we&#039;d get a fairer assessment of what Lewis&#039; defense capability is.

Minor mistakes only lose tenths of seconds now, whereas before, they often lost whole seconds because awkward bits of the car would break and/or fall off. Retirements were more likely, either because the car was beached or because a damaged component may break later on. It seems like that everything is combining to reduce the apparent differential between top and bottom drivers, youth and experience, in F1 these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way the cars are designed to make the most of the rules is changing every year because the rules change in major ways each year. That means that every year, the cars are substantially different, leading to different driver attributes being emphasised. So the rules may benefit smooth drivers one year and aggressive-turning drivers the next &#8211; or put particular emphasis on one perfect qualifying lap one year and on producing slightly slower pace several times in the same hour in another.</p>
<p>This on its own would not produce the effect that rookies often beat their more experienced team-mates. However, many of the older drivers (certainly those who began in 2001 or earlier) come from a generation who did not have to change their technique so often, because major rule changes were less frequent. Previous examples of rule changes which changed the face of the grid include grooved tyres, which played well to the likes of Mika Hakkinen, but caused major problems for drivers like Damon Hill, who struggled to adapt to them.</p>
<p>Several of the drivers also appear to have got to the stage where they are stuck in a rut created by refusing to let go of driving behaviours that worked for them in the past but don&#8217;t work now. Ralf Schumacher has been in that mode for several years, but he&#8217;s no longer the only one.</p>
<p>Then there&#8217;s the paddock&#8217;s short memory. It has long been the case that a driver who didn&#8217;t get good results for 2-3 years in a row could pretty much assume that their career was sunk. With the paddock being less patient (largely due to manufacturer and sponsor pressures) results are now generally demanded within a year.</p>
<p>The quality of rookies has also improved, as many of you have said. A lot of these drivers have a decade or more of pre-F1 experience. When Rubens Barrichello and David Coulthard started their careers, only very talented kartists or people struggling for funding would consider staying in karting long enough to get that kind of experience. Even Michael Schumacher had only 7 1/2 years of experience before reaching F1! As a result, drivers are coming in with much more racing experience. Increased manufacturer funding for a handful of drivers also gives those drivers more time to work on racing elements rather than sponsor-chasing elements.</p>
<p>There are two things that are too easy about F1 as a whole, though &#8211; defending position and recovering from minor mistakes. The advantage in overtaking situations is heavily with the defenders, and push-to-pass will make that even more so. So people like Lewis Hamilton are impossible to pass because the aero situation is silly, not necessarily because Lewis is any better at making his car wide than anyone else. In the cars of a decade ago, we&#8217;d get a fairer assessment of what Lewis&#8217; defense capability is.</p>
<p>Minor mistakes only lose tenths of seconds now, whereas before, they often lost whole seconds because awkward bits of the car would break and/or fall off. Retirements were more likely, either because the car was beached or because a damaged component may break later on. It seems like that everything is combining to reduce the apparent differential between top and bottom drivers, youth and experience, in F1 these days.</p>
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		<title>By: matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-57475</link>
		<dc:creator>matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-57475</guid>
		<description>Maybe it&#039;s the &#039;Playstation Generation&#039; - faster hand-eye co-ordination, learning tracks in games etc etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#8217;s the &#8216;Playstation Generation&#8217; &#8211; faster hand-eye co-ordination, learning tracks in games etc etc.</p>
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		<title>By: nellyweb</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-52760</link>
		<dc:creator>nellyweb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-52760</guid>
		<description>Ralf Schumacher certainly manages to make it look very difficult...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ralf Schumacher certainly manages to make it look very difficult&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: chunter</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-52581</link>
		<dc:creator>chunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-52581</guid>
		<description>Nice topic indeed.

Although I&#039;ve learned a lot (from reading here!) I have to admit I haven&#039;t been watching real Formula 1 to comment about the &#039;today versus yesterday&#039; debates, but I can say that the average age of pursued athletes has lowered in -all- professional sport, so why should F1 be an exception?

What I find bothersome is the -reason- for youth movements in most professional sports: salary control.  Why overpay an aging, underperforming athlete that is expected to decline when you can slightly overpay (for his age) a younger, underperforming athlete that is expected to grow into the next big thing and is therefore exciting?

Canada footage lent a little credence to &quot;the tracks are too easy&quot; argument, though, and frankly, I&#039;m all for putting the softest gravel possible in the runoffs to nearly ensure anybody that has an off gets stuck.  The reason is that we shouldn&#039;t want to see injuries like Kubica&#039;s or wish for multimillion dollar project cars to be destroyed by a single mistake, but if you compare to, say, Moto GP, when they have an off, they usually fall and have to leave the bike down.  Circuit Villenueve was actually destroying the cars of drivers that were making mistakes, and even destroying cars of drivers that didn&#039;t make mistakes.  There aren&#039;t a lot of venues where you can say that right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice topic indeed.</p>
<p>Although I&#8217;ve learned a lot (from reading here!) I have to admit I haven&#8217;t been watching real Formula 1 to comment about the &#8216;today versus yesterday&#8217; debates, but I can say that the average age of pursued athletes has lowered in -all- professional sport, so why should F1 be an exception?</p>
<p>What I find bothersome is the -reason- for youth movements in most professional sports: salary control.  Why overpay an aging, underperforming athlete that is expected to decline when you can slightly overpay (for his age) a younger, underperforming athlete that is expected to grow into the next big thing and is therefore exciting?</p>
<p>Canada footage lent a little credence to &#8220;the tracks are too easy&#8221; argument, though, and frankly, I&#8217;m all for putting the softest gravel possible in the runoffs to nearly ensure anybody that has an off gets stuck.  The reason is that we shouldn&#8217;t want to see injuries like Kubica&#8217;s or wish for multimillion dollar project cars to be destroyed by a single mistake, but if you compare to, say, Moto GP, when they have an off, they usually fall and have to leave the bike down.  Circuit Villenueve was actually destroying the cars of drivers that were making mistakes, and even destroying cars of drivers that didn&#8217;t make mistakes.  There aren&#8217;t a lot of venues where you can say that right now.</p>
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		<title>By: Journeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-52522</link>
		<dc:creator>Journeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-52522</guid>
		<description>Wow, hot topic.

It&#039;s a bit of both, actually.  F1 is a bit too soft, if only because of safety and lessening the chance of error.  There is much more grip and speed available on the cars now, so it is easier for a rookie to learn now than it was, say, 10 years ago.

However, it does not explain how Alonso is getting manhandled by Hamilton at the moment.  It does not explain how Kubica managed to have a storming drive in Hungary.  The fact that these guys manage to beat the more experienced ones - regularly - means that these guys are also VERY good.  Perhaps the only sad part about it is these guys got good more because of scientific methods (like the one I read on firstpost.co.uk on Lewis) than because of natural talent and experience (e.g. Schumacher and everyone before him).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, hot topic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit of both, actually.  F1 is a bit too soft, if only because of safety and lessening the chance of error.  There is much more grip and speed available on the cars now, so it is easier for a rookie to learn now than it was, say, 10 years ago.</p>
<p>However, it does not explain how Alonso is getting manhandled by Hamilton at the moment.  It does not explain how Kubica managed to have a storming drive in Hungary.  The fact that these guys manage to beat the more experienced ones &#8211; regularly &#8211; means that these guys are also VERY good.  Perhaps the only sad part about it is these guys got good more because of scientific methods (like the one I read on firstpost.co.uk on Lewis) than because of natural talent and experience (e.g. Schumacher and everyone before him).</p>
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		<title>By: Wes</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-52512</link>
		<dc:creator>Wes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-52512</guid>
		<description>I think its a combination of things. I don&#039;t think it has got any easier but in Hamilton there is rare talent who also happen to have a good car as well and to me that&#039;s a good combination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think its a combination of things. I don&#8217;t think it has got any easier but in Hamilton there is rare talent who also happen to have a good car as well and to me that&#8217;s a good combination.</p>
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		<title>By: Poleshitter</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-52468</link>
		<dc:creator>Poleshitter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-52468</guid>
		<description>We have to keep in mind that the absence of Schumacher lets everyone else sine a bit brighter. When Michael wins over half the races in a good year for Ferrari, the rookies are overlooked. With him gone and it now being McLaren&#039;s year, Lewis is able to exploit his talents properly. I also think that Hamilton had a great deal of experience racing in other series, unlike Kimi, and it&#039;s showing. 

The two types of tires rule has to be one of the dumbest ever thought up by Mosely&#039;s fascist mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have to keep in mind that the absence of Schumacher lets everyone else sine a bit brighter. When Michael wins over half the races in a good year for Ferrari, the rookies are overlooked. With him gone and it now being McLaren&#8217;s year, Lewis is able to exploit his talents properly. I also think that Hamilton had a great deal of experience racing in other series, unlike Kimi, and it&#8217;s showing. </p>
<p>The two types of tires rule has to be one of the dumbest ever thought up by Mosely&#8217;s fascist mind.</p>
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		<title>By: patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-52424</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/06/18/debate-is-f1-challenging-enough/#comment-52424</guid>
		<description>Not sure.

After all, Vettel only managed 8th, in a car that Heidfeld might have got up to 8th. Not bad, but hardly in the same  league as Hamilton.

And not all of the newcomers have had it so easy - look at Kovalainen.  And count the number of times Sutil has been off the road.

But still, the difference between a good and a great driver is perhaps only 0.3s a lap, where once it might have been nearer 1s a lap.  Driver aids haven&#039;t eliminated the advantages the best drivers have, but it has massively reduced it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure.</p>
<p>After all, Vettel only managed 8th, in a car that Heidfeld might have got up to 8th. Not bad, but hardly in the same  league as Hamilton.</p>
<p>And not all of the newcomers have had it so easy &#8211; look at Kovalainen.  And count the number of times Sutil has been off the road.</p>
<p>But still, the difference between a good and a great driver is perhaps only 0.3s a lap, where once it might have been nearer 1s a lap.  Driver aids haven&#8217;t eliminated the advantages the best drivers have, but it has massively reduced it.</p>
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