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	<title>Comments on: Debate: Postpone energy recovery rules?</title>
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	<description>F1 Fanatic - The Formula 1 Blog with F1 news, pictures, video, comment and analysis</description>
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		<title>By: Beep Kitchen</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-282547</link>
		<dc:creator>Beep Kitchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:04:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-282547</guid>
		<description>I believe that some of the rules and regulations in F1 and other racing organizations should be lifted or changed. The racing industry as a whole is where the massive amounts of R&amp;D comes from that &quot;trickles&quot; down to the general public. If they tie the hands of those with the vision and desire to find something new, or to change the way things are done, then we all will be driving the same kind of cars, same colors, same interiors, same engines same everything. Have we come to the end of discovery? Are there no more inventions left for the racers, the fans, the industry? Is this the new age of the cotton gin? Who knows, we may find something in the fuels that we now use that may revolutionize the whole world. Why cap it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that some of the rules and regulations in F1 and other racing organizations should be lifted or changed. The racing industry as a whole is where the massive amounts of R&amp;D comes from that &#8220;trickles&#8221; down to the general public. If they tie the hands of those with the vision and desire to find something new, or to change the way things are done, then we all will be driving the same kind of cars, same colors, same interiors, same engines same everything. Have we come to the end of discovery? Are there no more inventions left for the racers, the fans, the industry? Is this the new age of the cotton gin? Who knows, we may find something in the fuels that we now use that may revolutionize the whole world. Why cap it?</p>
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		<title>By: DavidVTHokie</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-76147</link>
		<dc:creator>DavidVTHokie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-76147</guid>
		<description>I think we all get that racing and energy conservation are mutually exclusive.  However, with all sorts of industries great leaps have been made in R&amp;D by boosting research by tethering it to a sport.  I have no problem giving incentives to spend money in certain R&amp;D directions by changing a sport&#039;s rules to do so.  

I try to keep things in perspective.  It&#039;s a sport. While I&#039;m enjoying watching the races, if they can develop better &quot;green&quot; cars and make a sport out of it, so much the better.  I much rather letting the fat-cats with tons of cash do a little philanthropy by funding this R&amp;D via racecar development rather than raising taxes or some other governmental interdiction that effects me more personally.  Hopefully, F1 developments will trickle down and effect me personally (such as paddle shifted sequential transmissions, etc).  

I&#039;m sure F1 will ensure it still is &quot;good racing&quot; and it would not ruin the sport.  F1 is a business too after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we all get that racing and energy conservation are mutually exclusive.  However, with all sorts of industries great leaps have been made in R&amp;D by boosting research by tethering it to a sport.  I have no problem giving incentives to spend money in certain R&amp;D directions by changing a sport&#8217;s rules to do so.  </p>
<p>I try to keep things in perspective.  It&#8217;s a sport. While I&#8217;m enjoying watching the races, if they can develop better &#8220;green&#8221; cars and make a sport out of it, so much the better.  I much rather letting the fat-cats with tons of cash do a little philanthropy by funding this R&amp;D via racecar development rather than raising taxes or some other governmental interdiction that effects me more personally.  Hopefully, F1 developments will trickle down and effect me personally (such as paddle shifted sequential transmissions, etc).  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure F1 will ensure it still is &#8220;good racing&#8221; and it would not ruin the sport.  F1 is a business too after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-61181</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 21:10:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-61181</guid>
		<description>Hi Alastair

I know it can save a bit of fuel accelerating out of corners again, if they are going to use it this way, if they are going to use it in the way I suggested, storing the energy in a buffer for extra power during overtaking it will save very little or no fuel. But like Allanora La Canta says, it&#039;s missing the point. Formula 1 is about going fastest around a race track, not about who can save the planet the most. If they were really serious about the environment they scrap the sport all together since that would be the only way to stop polluting, we don&#039;t want that of course. If they can find some ways to reduce pollution great, but working on the &quot;environmental image&quot; of a polluting sport is just ridiculous and they should not lose the focus of what it is about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alastair</p>
<p>I know it can save a bit of fuel accelerating out of corners again, if they are going to use it this way, if they are going to use it in the way I suggested, storing the energy in a buffer for extra power during overtaking it will save very little or no fuel. But like Allanora La Canta says, it&#8217;s missing the point. Formula 1 is about going fastest around a race track, not about who can save the planet the most. If they were really serious about the environment they scrap the sport all together since that would be the only way to stop polluting, we don&#8217;t want that of course. If they can find some ways to reduce pollution great, but working on the &#8220;environmental image&#8221; of a polluting sport is just ridiculous and they should not lose the focus of what it is about.</p>
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		<title>By: Alianora La Canta</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-61174</link>
		<dc:creator>Alianora La Canta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-61174</guid>
		<description>The whole &quot;environmentally friendly&quot; image thing misses the point. Formula 1 needs to get back the image that it is a sport - that way it might get back some of the viewers it has lost. Because people don&#039;t switch on to watch environmentally friendly processions (they are, after all, an oxymoron).

The energy recovery rules are a useful-sounding technology, but sporting considerations mean that they should be optional - the teams that can use them to greatest effect will adopt them if they&#039;re worth the bother. 

In any case, the fuel economy and the ability to go further before having to do a pitstop is enough of an advantage. The likelihood is that no compulsion will be required for this to naturally percolate down the grid anyway.

FIA, stop being so interfering and let competition take its course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole &#8220;environmentally friendly&#8221; image thing misses the point. Formula 1 needs to get back the image that it is a sport &#8211; that way it might get back some of the viewers it has lost. Because people don&#8217;t switch on to watch environmentally friendly processions (they are, after all, an oxymoron).</p>
<p>The energy recovery rules are a useful-sounding technology, but sporting considerations mean that they should be optional &#8211; the teams that can use them to greatest effect will adopt them if they&#8217;re worth the bother. </p>
<p>In any case, the fuel economy and the ability to go further before having to do a pitstop is enough of an advantage. The likelihood is that no compulsion will be required for this to naturally percolate down the grid anyway.</p>
<p>FIA, stop being so interfering and let competition take its course.</p>
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		<title>By: Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-61150</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 13:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-61150</guid>
		<description>Hi Bart,

If you use the energy recovered during braking into a corner to accelerate out of the corner, then you don&#039;t need to burn extra fuel to gather the momentum you lost under braking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Bart,</p>
<p>If you use the energy recovered during braking into a corner to accelerate out of the corner, then you don&#8217;t need to burn extra fuel to gather the momentum you lost under braking.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-61122</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 07:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-61122</guid>
		<description>This &quot;green image&quot; is hypocrisy. Racing uses a tremendous amount of energy that we simply don&#039;t have, be it from fossil fuels or electricity. The only way to get it to be environmentally friendly is to switch back to horses until we find a way to produce lots of clean energy â€“ maybe in 50-100 years.

Using biofuels might improve their image slightly, but I doubt I&#039;d have a serious impact on the planet if F1 added a bit of bio to their fuels. As for the kinetic energy conversion devices, if they use them to have an extra acceleration boost the recovered energy will be used for extra overtaking. Great for the viewers, but doesn&#039;t really reduce normal fuel consumption/improve the environment then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This &#8220;green image&#8221; is hypocrisy. Racing uses a tremendous amount of energy that we simply don&#8217;t have, be it from fossil fuels or electricity. The only way to get it to be environmentally friendly is to switch back to horses until we find a way to produce lots of clean energy â€“ maybe in 50-100 years.</p>
<p>Using biofuels might improve their image slightly, but I doubt I&#8217;d have a serious impact on the planet if F1 added a bit of bio to their fuels. As for the kinetic energy conversion devices, if they use them to have an extra acceleration boost the recovered energy will be used for extra overtaking. Great for the viewers, but doesn&#8217;t really reduce normal fuel consumption/improve the environment then.</p>
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		<title>By: Clive</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-61055</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 22:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-61055</guid>
		<description>Yes!  At last we&#039;ve found a use for Al Gore!  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!  At last we&#8217;ve found a use for Al Gore!  <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: chunter</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-61053</link>
		<dc:creator>chunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-61053</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not certain I completely understand the notion of &quot;energy recovery&quot;, because at a glance you could simply mean an alternator.

Though, if the rule means what I think, it&#039;s a better way to sap engines down than say, airflow restriction, and having F1 cars that do not need to refuel but remain small is probably a good thing.

From reading here, I&#039;ve read the forced expense of development is a rather normal thing in F1 and if the rule was lifted, Sauber would certainly (over-)spend money developing something else.

I should take the moment to announce that the Live Earth concerts successfully converted me to Clive&#039;s point of view on the environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not certain I completely understand the notion of &#8220;energy recovery&#8221;, because at a glance you could simply mean an alternator.</p>
<p>Though, if the rule means what I think, it&#8217;s a better way to sap engines down than say, airflow restriction, and having F1 cars that do not need to refuel but remain small is probably a good thing.</p>
<p>From reading here, I&#8217;ve read the forced expense of development is a rather normal thing in F1 and if the rule was lifted, Sauber would certainly (over-)spend money developing something else.</p>
<p>I should take the moment to announce that the Live Earth concerts successfully converted me to Clive&#8217;s point of view on the environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-60988</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 15:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-60988</guid>
		<description>I would be pretty disappointed electric cars dominated and a GP had less noise then the British Open.

I think the FIA should find a way to conserve as much fuel as possible and then completely contridict themselves by changing qualifying from its current form to a single fuel burn off session. Hers how it works:

All teams will fill up with race fuel, they will then drain this fuel into a giant container which they will then light on fire, who ever gets through this fuel burn off session first wins pole.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be pretty disappointed electric cars dominated and a GP had less noise then the British Open.</p>
<p>I think the FIA should find a way to conserve as much fuel as possible and then completely contridict themselves by changing qualifying from its current form to a single fuel burn off session. Hers how it works:</p>
<p>All teams will fill up with race fuel, they will then drain this fuel into a giant container which they will then light on fire, who ever gets through this fuel burn off session first wins pole.</p>
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		<title>By: Alastair</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-60973</link>
		<dc:creator>Alastair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/19/debate-postpone-energy-recovery-rules/#comment-60973</guid>
		<description>Biofuels do more harm than good, wheras energy recovery systems are already in use in some of the cars we drive on the roads right now.

We should be looking at ways of using LESS fuel, not more of a different type.  Where are we going to grow all the crops for all this biofuel?

See here http://nerve.fugacious.net/drf/archives/2007/06/biofuels_are_no_1.html for an excellent analysis of biofuels, they are not the way forward.  

We should be introducing energy recovery systems as soon as possible and also looking at all-electric F1 cars.  F1 racing has an article abou Martin Ogilvie&#039;s all electric F1 car.  It has full torque from zero RPM four brushless electric motors which need hardly any cooling and no gearbox other than a central CPU, regenerative braking and Li-Po batteries where the ballast and fuel tanks would be.  It is far more aerodynamic than a &#039;normal&#039; F1 car because it needs far less cooling and will be able to out-accellerate and out brake any F1 car, running further on a single charge with no problems about weight differences because batteries don&#039;t get any lighter when they are depleted.

In fact, it will not be able to race petrol-driven cars because it will beat them like gongs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biofuels do more harm than good, wheras energy recovery systems are already in use in some of the cars we drive on the roads right now.</p>
<p>We should be looking at ways of using LESS fuel, not more of a different type.  Where are we going to grow all the crops for all this biofuel?</p>
<p>See here <a href="http://nerve.fugacious.net/drf/archives/2007/06/biofuels_are_no_1.html" rel="nofollow">http://nerve.fugacious.net/drf/archives/2007/06/biofuels_are_no_1.html</a> for an excellent analysis of biofuels, they are not the way forward.  </p>
<p>We should be introducing energy recovery systems as soon as possible and also looking at all-electric F1 cars.  F1 racing has an article abou Martin Ogilvie&#8217;s all electric F1 car.  It has full torque from zero RPM four brushless electric motors which need hardly any cooling and no gearbox other than a central CPU, regenerative braking and Li-Po batteries where the ballast and fuel tanks would be.  It is far more aerodynamic than a &#8216;normal&#8217; F1 car because it needs far less cooling and will be able to out-accellerate and out brake any F1 car, running further on a single charge with no problems about weight differences because batteries don&#8217;t get any lighter when they are depleted.</p>
<p>In fact, it will not be able to race petrol-driven cars because it will beat them like gongs!</p>
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