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	<title>Comments on: Debate: Will the safety car decide the title?</title>
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	<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/</link>
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		<title>By: Alianora La Canta</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68535</link>
		<dc:creator>Alianora La Canta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 18:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68535</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s not such a bad idea, Dan M - especially if the marshals in the area could have some input into what limit they felt was safe for a specific area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s not such a bad idea, Dan M &#8211; especially if the marshals in the area could have some input into what limit they felt was safe for a specific area.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68302</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 18:41:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68302</guid>
		<description>With standardized ECU&#039;s why not have some sort of a speed limiter during extreme situations. 

If there is a really bad accident, then everyone speed is cut to 60MPH (or whatever works) until it is all cleaned up. This way everyone will stay the same distance apart. Obviously this would piss people off but its better then a SC or red flag and it certainly is better then penalizing people for going too fast under yellow conditions (talk about a controversy!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With standardized ECU&#8217;s why not have some sort of a speed limiter during extreme situations. </p>
<p>If there is a really bad accident, then everyone speed is cut to 60MPH (or whatever works) until it is all cleaned up. This way everyone will stay the same distance apart. Obviously this would piss people off but its better then a SC or red flag and it certainly is better then penalizing people for going too fast under yellow conditions (talk about a controversy!).</p>
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		<title>By: Clive</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68293</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Strangely enough, it does, Alianora.  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strangely enough, it does, Alianora.  <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alianora La Canta</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68269</link>
		<dc:creator>Alianora La Canta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:27:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68269</guid>
		<description>Does it involve the FIA and FOM officials, Clive ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it involve the FIA and FOM officials, Clive <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Clive</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68099</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 22:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68099</guid>
		<description>I should have known not to get too radical with Alianora on the prowl!  ;)

But at least she highlights the very real problems of the present rules.  And I still dislike having races reset by the safety car.  So let&#039;s think of a better system that excludes the safety car and still keeps those poor track sweepers safe.  How about we have helicopters flying around with giant vacuum cleaners that can suck up any debris before any cars get around?  Or, better still, we could give Max and Bernie brooms...

Oh, you guys probably haven&#039;t heard my idea for a much better way to start races.  I&#039;ll save that for another day.  :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have known not to get too radical with Alianora on the prowl!  <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But at least she highlights the very real problems of the present rules.  And I still dislike having races reset by the safety car.  So let&#8217;s think of a better system that excludes the safety car and still keeps those poor track sweepers safe.  How about we have helicopters flying around with giant vacuum cleaners that can suck up any debris before any cars get around?  Or, better still, we could give Max and Bernie brooms&#8230;</p>
<p>Oh, you guys probably haven&#8217;t heard my idea for a much better way to start races.  I&#8217;ll save that for another day.  <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Journeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68083</link>
		<dc:creator>Journeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68083</guid>
		<description>Thank you, ali.  That&#039;s my thoughts exactly! :) The new rules are stupid, yes, and must be re-evaluated.  But they&#039;re not without a solution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, ali.  That&#8217;s my thoughts exactly! <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  The new rules are stupid, yes, and must be re-evaluated.  But they&#8217;re not without a solution.</p>
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		<title>By: Alianora La Canta</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68069</link>
		<dc:creator>Alianora La Canta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68069</guid>
		<description>Safety cars are safer than full-course yellows, Clive - it&#039;s the difference between a track worker being in significant-but-manageable danger for 30 seconds out of every 100 (and totally safe for the other 70) and being in a smaller amount of danger for the entire 100 seconds. The total risk per lap is the same, but the guaranteed safe period allows for such things as sweeping the track and craning machinery from dangerous locations while no cars can interfere. 

It has the additional benefits of preserving TV schedules (remember this is Bernie&#039;s show, and it is largely paid for by TV companies) and avoiding the complexities that are associated with modern-day F1 race stoppages, which remain even more complicated than Safety Car procedures. Also, drivers often do misjudge yellow flag speeds in the types of situations that trigger Safety Cars. Take Jarno Trulli attempting to catch the Safety Car after his pit stop. Without the car, he was effectively guided by double waved yellows, and even then this experienced driver came off the road.

It was only when the primary function was forgotten, or misapplied, that problems have occurred with the safety car format. The occasional deployment of a Safety Car when either yellows or reds were more appropriate has caused problems on several occasions, but the recent rule change indicates that the purpose has been forgotten.

Blocking the pit stops during a limited time frame means that cars are having to pit whether ready or not, or carry more fuel. The latter may be the safe option, but races can and are won on risk. It was the latter that indirectly led to Trulli&#039;s misadventure in Canada. And if it&#039;s safe for backmarkers to go at (near?)-full speed around a circuit, then it&#039;s safe for the others to do the same, and at that point, the Safety Car is redundant.

Chances are that there will be a Safety Car at some point - I&#039;m guessing Spa. That&#039;s going to be a nightmare for everyone regardless of circumstances, and I am not looking forward to it. Allowing lapped cars to regain position made sense to me last year, but now? Get those rules rewound to last year! (OK, Clive will probably still want the SC rules rewound to 1993, but there you go...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Safety cars are safer than full-course yellows, Clive &#8211; it&#8217;s the difference between a track worker being in significant-but-manageable danger for 30 seconds out of every 100 (and totally safe for the other 70) and being in a smaller amount of danger for the entire 100 seconds. The total risk per lap is the same, but the guaranteed safe period allows for such things as sweeping the track and craning machinery from dangerous locations while no cars can interfere. </p>
<p>It has the additional benefits of preserving TV schedules (remember this is Bernie&#8217;s show, and it is largely paid for by TV companies) and avoiding the complexities that are associated with modern-day F1 race stoppages, which remain even more complicated than Safety Car procedures. Also, drivers often do misjudge yellow flag speeds in the types of situations that trigger Safety Cars. Take Jarno Trulli attempting to catch the Safety Car after his pit stop. Without the car, he was effectively guided by double waved yellows, and even then this experienced driver came off the road.</p>
<p>It was only when the primary function was forgotten, or misapplied, that problems have occurred with the safety car format. The occasional deployment of a Safety Car when either yellows or reds were more appropriate has caused problems on several occasions, but the recent rule change indicates that the purpose has been forgotten.</p>
<p>Blocking the pit stops during a limited time frame means that cars are having to pit whether ready or not, or carry more fuel. The latter may be the safe option, but races can and are won on risk. It was the latter that indirectly led to Trulli&#8217;s misadventure in Canada. And if it&#8217;s safe for backmarkers to go at (near?)-full speed around a circuit, then it&#8217;s safe for the others to do the same, and at that point, the Safety Car is redundant.</p>
<p>Chances are that there will be a Safety Car at some point &#8211; I&#8217;m guessing Spa. That&#8217;s going to be a nightmare for everyone regardless of circumstances, and I am not looking forward to it. Allowing lapped cars to regain position made sense to me last year, but now? Get those rules rewound to last year! (OK, Clive will probably still want the SC rules rewound to 1993, but there you go&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: chunter</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68060</link>
		<dc:creator>chunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68060</guid>
		<description>Would you rather have the race decided by the safety car, or the crane?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you rather have the race decided by the safety car, or the crane?</p>
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		<title>By: Clive</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68034</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68034</guid>
		<description>Not the way I see it, Journeyer - safety cars &lt;em&gt;are&lt;/em&gt; an unnecessary evil.  They provide no more safety than does a yellow flag and they &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; stop the racing altogether - the only difference is that the cars continue to circulate (as they would under yellows) instead of stopping.  There is no race as the cars are not allowed to pass each other, apart from the silly rule of lapped cars going around again to join the line at the back.

Waved yellows have exactly the same effect as a safety car except that they preserve hard-won gaps.  Thus, when the race starts again, it is a resumed race, rather than a completely new one.

Safety cars &lt;em&gt;look&lt;/em&gt; safer only because they keep the field down to a speed possible for a road car (except in cases where the road is so badly flooded that F1 cars can&#039;t keep up, as at the Nurburgring this year).  But it&#039;s appropriate speed that matters, not just slowness.  We are effectively saying that these F1 drivers can&#039;t be trusted to keep to an appropriate speed to suit the circumstances.  But hang on a minute, these are the guys whose lives are at stake if anything goes wrong - why would they exceed a sensible speed through dangerous areas?

In fact, the yellow flag rule worked for decades before the safety car was introduced as a gimmick from America.  And the only thing it has achieved is further complication in the rules as its total unsuitability for F1 has become apparent.  There&#039;s an old saying that should have been applied to F1 years ago: if it ain&#039;t broke, don&#039;t fix it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not the way I see it, Journeyer &#8211; safety cars <em>are</em> an unnecessary evil.  They provide no more safety than does a yellow flag and they <em>do</em> stop the racing altogether &#8211; the only difference is that the cars continue to circulate (as they would under yellows) instead of stopping.  There is no race as the cars are not allowed to pass each other, apart from the silly rule of lapped cars going around again to join the line at the back.</p>
<p>Waved yellows have exactly the same effect as a safety car except that they preserve hard-won gaps.  Thus, when the race starts again, it is a resumed race, rather than a completely new one.</p>
<p>Safety cars <em>look</em> safer only because they keep the field down to a speed possible for a road car (except in cases where the road is so badly flooded that F1 cars can&#8217;t keep up, as at the Nurburgring this year).  But it&#8217;s appropriate speed that matters, not just slowness.  We are effectively saying that these F1 drivers can&#8217;t be trusted to keep to an appropriate speed to suit the circumstances.  But hang on a minute, these are the guys whose lives are at stake if anything goes wrong &#8211; why would they exceed a sensible speed through dangerous areas?</p>
<p>In fact, the yellow flag rule worked for decades before the safety car was introduced as a gimmick from America.  And the only thing it has achieved is further complication in the rules as its total unsuitability for F1 has become apparent.  There&#8217;s an old saying that should have been applied to F1 years ago: if it ain&#8217;t broke, don&#8217;t fix it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan M</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/comment-page-1/#comment-68025</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:55:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/08/30/debate-will-the-safety-car-decide-the-title/#comment-68025</guid>
		<description>3 laps would be roughly 15 pounds of fuel which would mean the difference if you are racing for position. Gambling on fuel is also a necessary evil.

I have a different scenario: what if there was a SC when McLaren (or Ferrari) were running one two, would they stack them as soon as they were allowed to pit? It would be unlikely that this would happen because they would be on different strategies, but if the caution was out for a couple laps then they may have to pit at the same time...... Hopefully Alonso will be in front while that happens!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>3 laps would be roughly 15 pounds of fuel which would mean the difference if you are racing for position. Gambling on fuel is also a necessary evil.</p>
<p>I have a different scenario: what if there was a SC when McLaren (or Ferrari) were running one two, would they stack them as soon as they were allowed to pit? It would be unlikely that this would happen because they would be on different strategies, but if the caution was out for a couple laps then they may have to pit at the same time&#8230;&#8230; Hopefully Alonso will be in front while that happens!</p>
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