After the tumult, that is this 2007 season, I can no longer take sides or make judgements. And honestly, I’ve been left somewhat numb by the whole affair, that come the last race, I would simply just watch without emotion, cheering for no driver, for all the drivers have driven well, and have shown great skill, that is what I want to consign to memory. I hope that in the end, in its own way, fate would contrive to produce a worthy champion.

Well, I am very ok about all you say, still not happy, but ok.

You do manage a great quantity of information, thank you for share it, I do appreciate it very much.

Right amount of punishment? Shylock said one pound, good for me.

Still, good luck, Hamilton.

To some extent we share a similar opinion, however, and like I’ve said repeatedly, those conditions where horrible, and I will be the last to say Hamiltons drive under the SC was superb, but in his defense, he did call his pit, to warn Webber not to get too close. Perhaps he had a wasp in the car afterall. And I will also draw your attention to the fact that most of the drivers who talked about Hamiltons drive under the safety car, could only make their comments after watching some recording, and not actually from directly viewing the car on the track. The first statement Vettel made was that he saw Hamilton’s car on the ride side of the track and was looking if he had a problem. At no point did he talk about Hamiltons driving, until perhaps, the Redbull team had brought that up at a point. So his accusation of Hamilton was probably in hindsight.

About the crane incident, Its not often you see drivers getting embedded in the gravel trap, maintaing their engines running for a long time, and most of the regulations concerning the retrieval of cars are obscure and not often considered, mainly because on a dry track, the time involved in retrieving a stuck vehicle would be so long compared to the relative lap times of the cars and as such, a retrieved car would probably be a lap or 2 down. I might also want to add, that, until the change of the regulations, reducing the size of the engines, most engines ran very very hot, and if they stay too long in a static position, they soon overheat and stop running. If you now couple that with the supposed ability of the Mclaren Mercedes engine to run only on 4 cylingers and the associated lower operating tempertures, it is no surprise then, that he was able to keep his engine running for such a long time.

Hamilton had the will to continue racing, one of his mantra’s is “I never give up” that may have come to his aid in the situation, and gave the team time to read through the regulations.

Because of the uproar created by that incident, the regulations were then ammended to deny such possibilities, just like how the regulations were also changed to elliminate the possibility of some teams making use of flexible floors.

Bizkai, please try read that link properly it will make things quite clear, or rather it would create a doubt in your mind, if you are right or wrong.

Do not allow your desire to see a driver punished. to then create some level of equality, cloud your level of reasoning. And if you so desire that he be punished, what in your own estimation will be the right amount of punishment for his alleged transgressions.

You present the things as if a fact would be a well done thing. About Japan you blame webber and vettel,and being true I do find it is not all the truth, Webber did find hamilton going left right,accelerating and deccelerating, as if he had an wasp inside his car, Wettel did find the same thing. Many other drivers did talk about this and they ,being there, have a very different opinion than yours about who has the biggest blame of it.

Respect to another subjects that you respond to David, the crane in Germany, you introduce this as a fact already solved correctly, but this is very far to be true. Still there is many doubts about how they did interpret the rules about the use of the crane. And we have seen previously that not all the drivers have enjoyed the same mild interpretation in similar circunstances.

Thats so funny. If Hamilton didnt slow down, then surely he would have run out of room and straight into the back of Alonso. Why should the team then punish the driver for doing what he was asked to do, which was to finish second behind Alonso. Also, you are just assuming that he did not get a reprimand from the team. Perhaps your idea of punishment is for him to be tied and horsewhipped at the pit entry. Maybe that was done in Roman times but unlikely today.

And by your own statement, you are confirming that Alonso was favoured by the team to win that race, irrespective of what fuel strategy each driver may have started the race with. If then Alonso had favours from the top of the team to win the race, how then does he then complain that he is alone in the team and gets no help.

At the Fuji race, Hamilton was way to the right of the track when he slowed, if other drivers could not use their discretion when driving behind the safety car in such conditions, then they have themselves to blame. If he had slowed down in front of Webber, why didnt Webber hit him? Vettel by his own admission, has stated that he was not looking in front of him, but looking at Hamiltons car to his side, perhaps if he wasnt strapped to his car maybe he would have stood up to look behind aswell.

I have supported Alonso all these years, but that doesnt necessarily mean he is always correct. As for the FIA, they dont always get it right. But at the same time, they dont always have to punish just to make some people happy.

You say in Hungary incident Alonso should have waited for the team to punish Lewis,well Lewis was not punished anyway. Before in Monaco, they had team instructions to slow down, Alonso did it, Hamilton did not it, the team did not punish Hamilton. This is a clear precedent about what Alonso could wait from his team to punish Hamilton in Hungary.
Fia was not right applying an unknown rule to punish Alonso, while in Japan they do not apply a sanction to Hamilton for the irregularities behind a safety car. It is not easy to judge but I think there is inconsistency in the way that Fia determines to apply the rules. The conduct of Alonso was not worst than Hamilton’s.

I forgot to add also, the numerous occassions, the previos two seasons Alonso was at Renault, when Fisichella’s car was always the one coming up with problems.
By the way, It may also interest you to note that the first complaint Alonso made about the his team, was that some of the engineers cheered more for Lewis’s qualifying than they dis his.

Anyway, keith has thankfully provided the link to the article on the retrieving of vehicles from the track, i hope u read it very well it may better help you understand the crane incident. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2007/07/26/debate-was-hamiltons-restart-legal/

I assume you are directing this at me “As you said, lets judge on verifiable facts”

-Barhein: Alonso’s car is damaged during the night.
->The team said a lighting pod fell on his car, perhaps they were working late into the night. There are enough spares to replace any faulty parts and if they wanted to impede him in anyway, it would have been much easier to give his car a misfire.

-Canada: Alonso complains about car behaviour, Lewis car was OK
->Alonso has never really done well in Canada, even when he was at Renault. Lets not forget the Canadian circuit requires lower down force levels than most other track apart from Monza, and also they set up the car with very hard springs to promote fast response of the cars handling, he may not like the feel of the car based on that.

-France: Problems in Q3 for Alonso (gear box was damaged, not Lewis one)
-> Gearbox problems can affect anyone without warning, even though the cars are made to such high levels of precision, the occasional parts failure does occur, you can ask the RBR team about such matters and even BMW. It can happen to anyone, and besides it didnt affect him much, even Lewis has been beset by his own car issues.

-Belgium: A lid from the oil tank was missing in Fernando’s car.
->Perhaps they needed to work on the car in a hurry and forgot to place it back properly, by the way you dont say if it was during practice, qualifying or race and it didnt affect him.

-Japan: Tire pressure incorrect in Fernando’s car (just for Q3)
-> How do u know the tire pressures where incorrect?, Bridgestone keeps all records of tire pressures and temperatures so its easily verifiable

-China: Alonso was the fastest during tests but slower again in Q3 plus Ron’s words
-> Rons words didnt affect Alonso’s qualifying. By the way, you also forgot to mention that Alonso carried 3 or 4 laps greater quantity of fuel in his car, that on its own should amount for some of the time difference. Also Kimi had being faster all weekend, But Lewis set a faster time than Kimi even. And I followed qualifying keenly and I noticed at the begining of Alonso’s qualifying run, after the first timed sector, his status was green, meaning he was faster than before in that sector, then he lost some time in the other sectors, perhaps he made a mistake. Even Massa was fueled lighter than Kimi and should have been on pole but he admitted he made a mistake on that run.

-Bad pit strategy for Alonso in Australia and USA
->Alonso got the better pit strategy in Australia thats how he was able to jump Lewis after his second pits stop. You forgot to mention also, that Alonso got the better pit strategy in Barcelona and Monaco and several other tracks.

FIA
-Germany: Lewis car on track by the tow track
->The regulations previously allowed for the cars to be retrievable, and if repairable, the ability to continue with the race. All other cars had stoped or too damaged, his car was still running. Blame the regulations and not the driver.

-Hungary incident (changing rules??!?!?!?!)
-> Lewis was somehow responsible, but Alonso should have waited for the team to punish Lewis, because Lewis’ actions were solely a team affair. Alonso blocking him in the pits, put it in the category of impeding another competitor during qualifying. The FIA mishandled it in my opinion, but they were left with very little options.

-Italy: Illegal start from Lewis, no punishment at all.
-> I must have missed somethng, please clarify

FIA
-Germany: Lewis car on track by the tow track
-Hungary incident (changing rules??!?!?!?!)
-Italy: Illegal start from Lewis, no punishment at all.

Obviously these are facts that refer to Alonso, other drivers could complain for other reasons but I never heard something like that at any other sport.

But then, I am still of the belief Alonso has insulted his race engineers and mechanics, for implying that he gets no support in the team.

“The problem was rain and his (Hamilton’s) tyres were in the worst condition. But we weren’t at all fazed about Kimi. We weren’t racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.
“Kimi winning and Lewis coming second was adequate. It just didn’t quite work out that way.”
Taken from British press…
Who is still thinking they get equal treatment?

I will be the first to admit that the British press are way offline and I have stated that on several occasions. The issues now are not really the press. Alonso is behaving badly, and its his fault if he listens to the press, be it English, German or Spanish.

This site on which you are so joyfully rendering your comments in, can pass for the English press, but you only get nothing but fair reporting and assessments on F1fanatic.

If u watch Formula1 on any tv station alligned with ITV, I can list out numerous sins from Allen and Brundle, and not just even about Hamilton, but Button and Coulthard aswell.

Most people dislike Hamilton because of the press aswell. He didnt force the press to report his activites, he didnt beg for it. They just do it. The same too in spain.

About the German press. Do you think the Germans dont want to see one of their drivers in that car? do you think they are crazy about a British driver? But when Alonso accuses Mclaren and Mercedes of conspiring against him, I’m surprised a Unimorg didnt accidentaly run him over last race at the Nurburgring (first attempt at spelling that in my life by the way).

Bizkai…At the end of the day, most of our perceptions of events are shaped up by the media, if not for the media you would have no idea who Alonso was, despite he is from spain. Taking that into consideration, It is now left for you as an individual to either remain gaullible and consume entirely all information you are fed, or to have an open mind in order to filter out information that is only meant to inflame passions.

I recall a post race press conference a few races back, when i believe Alonso had a few problems, an English journalist asked, Hamilton “do you even care what happened to Alonso today?” Even Hamilton had to say “thats a very silly question”, “of course i care, he is my team mate……”

Many individuals have formed their opinions based on that of someone else, what they have been fed. People even accuse R. Dennis of being a cheat, and and a liar, what do they know about the man to question his intergrity, or that of anyone else.
We never know peoples motive for writing, but never allow someones hatred for an individual to be passed on to you.

My final advice, form ur decisions and make ur comments or judgements based on verifiable facts and not someones hear say or worse of all, taking a persons opinion as fact.

The fact Ron Dennis has not said not made any comment concerning Alonso’s allegations, speaks a lot of his maturity.

If Alonso doesnt win the championship in his mind it will always be because, he was not getting any help.

Alonso said Dennis was the first to say he wasnt talking to him. But before Belgium, in Hungary after the qualifying incident, Ron Dennis went to Alonso, and he just ignored him completely. His own boss. Mclaren even got into trouble trying to defend Alonso’s action.

Alonso said he talked to Kimi and Montoya and Coulthard.

If Kimi had a problem with Mclaren its because of his hard partying. There is no way Kimi can claim he didnt get the best attention in that team.

Montoya needed some time to adjust in a new team, but he would make a mistake and say it was the car, even when the telemetry was saying another thing. Only him can claim he didnt get equal attention.

Coulthard was in that team for 9 seasons. Apart from M Schumacher at Ferrari, what other driver can claim a longer stay in any team. Coulthard demoted himself to second position because he couldnt qaulify well despite doing well in race conditions. He definitely cant have anyting bad to say cause he got equal equipment.

The FIA cannot force a disgruntled employee on any team, especially one who seems to destroy the morale in the team. Hamilton even said, Alonso doesnt talk to anyone in the team. I wish somehow we can get Pedro’s honest opinion, without the spanish press crucifying him.

Ron has been up there with Alonso
Todt no longer does it because he now occupies a much more senior position in Ferrari, and besides, Massa would just die.

Alonso demoted himself from that position of number one.
Same time last year, Alonso was saying Renault did not want him to win the championship, that he gets no support, he has to win on his own. Fisichela got a drive through penalty in Belguim for slowing Kimi down in the pits so Alonso could win.

Hamilton is getting all the press attention in Mclaren, no fault of his. Alonso thought the press would see him as the saviour of Mclaren.

I am a fan of Alonso, I still want him to win, but he is not often in touch with reality.

“but he’s preparing for defeat by seizing every opportunity to take swipes at Lewis Hamilton and McLaren.”

“But his endless sniping at the team,…”

Alonso is not pretending to attack MClaren in any way and i can demonstrate it using the same line of reasoning as in your article:

“Why hire a double champion in the first place and then favour the rookie?”

Why attack a team you depend on to win the champion you still have options to win?

Ok so we should just leave alonso’s comments (some unfortunate) as a result of mixed feelings, lot of pressure, some wierd things happenning, etc. just as hamiltons unfortunate comments as well.

Now, nevertheless, let me state two opnions I have i would like someone to rebate me:

1) Clearly, Mclaren sentiments are with Lewis. No driver would be confortable in any way knowing his team is with the teammate. This is not good feeling. And i really think this was not started as alonso against the team, but as the team being pro hamilton.
2) Hamilton has had the benefit of the doubt from FIA. Alonso has not had it.

So its easy to say Alonso its losing it against a rookie and thats all, but i dont think thats all the story.

Anyway, we have an interesting last race!

I don’t think our points of view are reconcilable. But I don’t think that any of what I wrote in the first place can reasonably be described as bias, and I think some of the other pieces I’ve written on the subject further demonstrate my attempts to be as impartial as possible:

British tabloids blame Alonso
Another PR disaster for McLaren
Alonso under attack over leak threat

to indicate little more elaborately why i thought it(your post) was biased,

“Alonso’s remarks are confusing and even contradictory. Sometimes he appears to be insinuating that Hamilton gets preferential treatment from the team. Other times he seems annoyed that he is given exactly the same treatment as Hamilton, or unhappy that, in giving drivers fair treatment over the long term, it means certain drivers are compromised at different times:”

except for may be rumours we don’t have a case where we know for sure alonso did ask for preferencial treatment.
ofcourse, barring for lewis’s statements which indicate in that direction. to be honest i don’t belive those, as i dont belive the “im a more team player than alonso” remarks or “i feel more attached to team and than alonso” remarks. we just have to look alonso days at renault.
whose say that alonso may have asked the team to stop favouring hamilton as much. which could be twisted to say “he wants hamilton to be less favoured, hence favouring him more”.
one thing that stands out in the whole thing is that he doesn’t feel the backing of the team as much as he thinks the team is backing hamilton. which he thinks team owes him.

as proof for this you don’t need to look beyond this weekend, just ron’s comment that they racing alonso and not kimi say it all if you ask me.

Ron Dennis defended their decision to delay Hamilton’s stop by saying: “We weren’t racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando.”

somehow the use of word “we” here for me reckon that alonso is not part of the it. more info here http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7032284.stm

points alonso made are,
1. ron prefers lying to being queit. no comments here.
2. you can’t have optimal stratergy for two drivers, no point arguing over this as it true most of the times.
3. you take turns for optimal strategy.

form here how did you arrive this,

“Alonso’s gripe appears to be that he assumed he would be given primacy in the team over Hamilton, which hasn’t happened, and he now feels that the team are given Hamilton more favourable treatment than he is.”

besides its a repetative point, answer will be same as above so will not answer it again.

But his endless sniping at the team, which has noticeably escalated since their very public fall-out at the Hungarian Grand Prix, comes across as though he is seizing every single stick to beat them with.

two thinks that strike here is,

1. hamilton was the one who started, it seems no one wants remember that part. and i remember correctly mcclaren didn’t take any action against him. surely he broke understanding that was withing the team.
2. exactly since that incident i seem haven’t seen that agreement being employed, so i far alonso hasn’t got that additional lap in Q3 since then.

so is he wrong in doing so?

“I don’t believe his claim McLaren are favouring Hamilton for one second – it just doesn’t add up. Why hire a double champion in the first place and then favour the rookie?”

from what i understand the favourism (atleast the claims of it) were not there until he was in a almost position to be one(champ) himself. if looked from that point you are right it doesn’t add up, but can’t base your points from that point.

“If we’ve learned one thing about Alonso this year it’s that he cannot stand to be beaten by the guy in the same car as him. Further evidence of that also came this weekend.”

if your referring to post qualifying incident, he was not wrong to belive that given same setup and approximately same fuel load hamilton suddenly couldn’t have been so much faster!!, which brings me to a big question why was he not aware of fuel load of his teammate?

“Alonso’s words remind me of his anger after being punished in qualifying for the Italian Grand Prix last year. Alonso was adjudged to have impeded Felipe Massa despite the Ferrari driver being 100m behind him at the time.

Afterwards he famously said, “I don’t consider F1 a sport anymore.”

Hearing him criticize Hamilton in the same way now, those words have a hollow ring.”

this is by afar the most stretched comparison, i my opinion, there we knew that no way on earth he would have effected massa. all f1 drivers also knew. where as here,

it seems that he was was bit erratic behind the safety car, where 21 formula one drivers agree that it was a bit erratic, there should some reason for that. so he felt so in which there is nothing wrong. so you most definitely can’t compare both. whether he should penalized or not is different.

so all in all i think you have taken everything one from one side, without considering the other possibilities. also a bit biased on a lot that is already been said over and over and over again.

like yourself pointing out that alonso would rather have preferencial treatment twice in post!!.

finally i ain’t no alonso fan, i just felt like i should stand up for him, as i have immense respect for him as a driver. that again doesn’t mean i have none to lewis.

who ever wins the championship deserves it, as all drivers have a great a job(alonso a little more as he is been under a lot psyhcological pressure), i would really loved it kimi wins it.