Mosley gives a weak defence

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Max Mosley, Red Bull, 2006, 270150

Max Mosley has given an interview to the Sunday Telegraph – whose F1 correspondent Kevin Garside was just about the only journalist to stick up for the FIA President following the sex scandal story in the News of the World. Mosley made his position on the matter quite clear:

I think what happens is they think ‘what can we get at him, ah yes, we can say he’s this Nazi. Is there any basis for Nazism? Not really, but we can kind of invent something and then focus on the family name.’ The whole thing was quite deliberate from that point of view because it adds to the story.

He continued to insist that the majority of people within the FIA support him, despite very few having said so in public.

For every letter I’ve had from a club president saying ‘I think you should step down’ or ‘I think you should consider your position’, I’ve had seven, slightly more than seven, who said ‘you’ve absolutely got to stay, don’t give an inch’, and ‘this is the most outrageous invasion’, and suggesting that there’s more to this than meets the eye, which of course there may be.

Mosley was dismissive of the criticism saying:

None of the heavyweights have said anything, the people who really are the opinion formers in Formula 1. There’s a few ex-drivers.

Which is simply not true. Are BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Honda not heavyweights? Is Mark Webber an ex-driver?

The Nazi angle is irrelevant

It’s becoming clear that there are two key matters that lie at the heart of the whole sordid debate.

The first is the ‘Nazi’ thing which, as I wrote in my very first post on the subject, seems like a dubious connection as it is one that British tabloids are fixated with.

If Mosley does have as many supporters as he claims to I think they’re standing by him because they don’t believe the Nazi angle.

But even if the Nazi thing isn’t true, the News of the World have given Mosley more than rope to hang himself with, and he’s grasped it with both hands.

The fall

That’s because of the second point: the President of the FIA has been revealed to be someone who gets a sexual thrill out of punishing people. Last year he levied an unprecedented fine against a team led by a man who we know Mosley does not like.

Can we honestly now say with any confidence that Mosley handed out that punishment because he thought it was the correct thing to do and not because he got a kick out of doing it?

What about when Eddie Irvine appealed against a one-race ban in 1994 and it suddenly became a three-race ban – a move that stunned many in the sport? What about Toyota’s expulsion from the World Rally Championship in 1995?

These were all controversial cases that led to severe punishments. The FIA president must be able to hand out these kinds of punishments when they are deserved. What we now know about Mosley makes it impossible to believe he can act with impartiality in these matters.

The moral argument

Mosley is trying to make the debate all about the ‘Nazi’ element and ignore the wider question of whether you can be considered a fair judge when you admit to being sexually aroused by administering punishment.

The reason he’s doing that is because the meeting on June 3rd to decide his future will surely have a lot to say about this clasue:

According to Article 27 of the Statutes of the FIA:

The World Motor Sport Council may directly impose the sanctions provided for in the International Sporting Code, and where appropriate the World Council for Automobile Mobility and Tourism may impose fines on or demand the exclusion from FIA bodies or international sporting events of licence holders, executive officers or members of ASNs or ACNs:

5) who by words, deeds or writings have inflicted moral injury and loss on the FIA, a World Council, their Members or their executive officers.

By focussing on the ‘Nazi’ part of the revelations he is trying to distract attention away from the heart of the matter – the real reason why he can’t stay in his job any more, and why every day that passes with him still in that role damages F1 even more.

NB. I’m sure you’re all as sick of this sordid story as I am – I’ve got some ‘proper’ posts on the way shortly.

100 comments on “Mosley gives a weak defence”

  1. God this man Mosley knows no shame and is using legal arguments of the like he would not give a second thought of throwing out if used against him at the FIA.

    The many correct legal arguments brought up at the Spygate trial were simply not entertained by Mosley (no other court in the world could do that).

    I agree 100% that he is deflecting re the Nazi element to try and hoodwink the FIA voters and public opinion in some quarters and knowing how the FIA operate he may well succeed in winning the vote.

    The fact that few in the F1 world says more about the fear of reprisals than anything else which is in itself a crime and a disgrace.

    Being a Telegraph reader I was appalled that they at first supported Mosley and only changed their stance one a wave of opinion against their initial views were received (from the likes of me and others) . It will be interesting to see how they report it in the coming weeks.

    I hope the press from around the globe will go to Jordan and press both the people there and Mosley on this pervert scandal currently engulfing motor sport.

  2. Robert McKay
    20th April 2008, 12:17

    He’s not "deflecting the Nazi element" – as Keith says, the Nazi aspect is irrelevant. And I think calling him a "pervert" is just too far.

    The only thing I think he’s really failed to defend/answer is the fact that the sport and the FIA in general is damaged by the story, and on that basis alone he should go. Removing him on grounds of his sexual preferences is just ridiculous – and it seems to be on this premise that many people in the media are basing their opinions on.

  3. Keith, I am amazed that you have basically said that anyone who enjoys BDSM should not be in a position of power. In one fell swoop you have effectively ruled out at least half the population (because that is a rough estimate of how many people enjoy/fantasise about bondage) from such a position.

    Most people thought Irvine deserved more than a 3-race ban at the time and your article also implies that Toyota did not deserve to be banned from the WRC for one of the most blatant forms of cheating there is.

    I, for one, look forward to the scum at the News of the World losing their jobs when the "newspaper" is forced to pay Max so much damages that they go into liquidation.

  4. Did anyone expect Mosley to give a proper defence? It’s not his style – bullying and blustering is his normal way out trouble, no reason to think he’d change.

    Unfortunately the EGM won’t necessarily decide Mosley’s future. He and his cronies have made sure the agenda hasn’t been changed to allow allow the clubs to question Mosley, or to take action based on the result of the vote.

  5. Lady Snowcat
    20th April 2008, 13:21

    Well if you look at the responses of the Telegraph readers they agree with Max…. virtually exclusively …..

    And personally… I don’t want a rag run by Mr Murdoch to dictate the decisions of the governing body of Motorsport….

    This is personal and nothing to do with motorsport….

    Max’s actions were not my cup of tea thank you, but they were in private and as he is an unpaid position that doesn’t dictate sexual morality what on earth is a little S&M between friends to do with anything…

    Except selling papers to the prurient and embarrassing Max’s family of course ….

  6. @ Robert McKay

    May I suggest you refer to an English dictionary re the word ‘pervert’.

    Then read the limited text as already published in the News of the World, you then will, I’m sure acknowledge that a pervert he is.

    You may consider being a pervert not to be a bad ting, that’s your right, but nevertheless a pervert he is.

    A thought: Why is the FIA vote to be by secret ballot? Is it to protect those voting from retribution from those at the FIA or to stop retribution from the members of the individuals motor organisation?

    Members of parliament vote for their constituents as they are serpents of the same and their votes area matter of public record as they should be. Is this not yet another case where real democracy needs to be brought to the FIA?

    In my view those that support Mosley can not or do not want t see the bigger picture. I contend that no organisation that represents both children and women (and many men) can be openly headed by an acknowledged pervert.

  7. Lady Snowcat – “And personally… I don’t want a rag run by Mr Murdoch to dictate the decisions of the governing body of Motorsport….

    This is personal and nothing to do with motorsport….”

    That’s the second comment I’ve seen you write using the same logic.

    That raises this question, why is it “personal” when auto manufacturers have not only denounced Mosley (in Porsche’s case explicitly said they wouldn’t enter F1 as a car builder) but asked him to step down, isn’t that hurting the sport?

    Isn’t being asked to stay away from events as in the case of Bahrain hurting his ability to perform as he was “hired” to do?”

    And a secondary question… how soon will it be before you fall into line with Max and condemn the prostitute for letting the world in on his dirty little secret?

    Max “The Littlest Perv” Mosley needs to go sooner rather than later.

  8. It is very apparent that Keith Collantine is trying to convince people of her bizzare and helpless anti-Max Mosley campaign,which alot of weak-hearted souls are  supporting…
    -It is also very apparent that there is a discreet driving force behind this anti-Max Mosley campaign…
    -As a professional journalist-from which u are quite far away-you should have printed the complete article without ur subjective opinion and give people the chance to make their own judgement.
    http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_print_article.php?fes_art_id=34534
    -Your campaign wil lead nowhere…Take my word for this!

  9. It is very apparent to me Fireblade that F1Fanatic is a Blog.

    In fact if you scroll down it even says that under "about F1Fanatic.co.uk"

    A Blog is not supposed to be the expression of professional journalism but rather the expression of personal opinion.

    So there’s no need to knock him or call the other people who believe Max will never recover from this weak hearted. Name calling won’t do anything, you call yourself a "professional" yet you have just displayed you don’t exhibit any of the ethics or responsibilty that come with it with your snide comment.

    And I’m referring explicity to: "As a professional journalist-from which u are quite far away"

  10. Fireblade, I read the entire Pitpass article, and Keith cited the relevant bits in their proper contexts.  He can’t quote the entire Pitpass article without getting sued, so he did the next best thing.

    It is also very apparent that there is a discreet driving force behind this anti-Max Mosley campaign?  Yes, there possibly is.  But that’s beside the point now.  Point is, the people he had jurisdiction over has lost respect for him as a leader because of something he did, and when that happens, the leader has to accept the consequences of what he did and do the right thing – resign.

  11. Rabi, to be fair to fireblade, he never claimed to be a professional journalist.  Rather, he thought that Keith was a professional journalist – which he’s not.  :)

  12. As far as I see it, if you are in a job, you should not engage in activities that undermine your ability to do that job. If you do happen to engage in such activities, you should try not to be caught. And if you are caught, you should try to limit the damage as fast and as far as possible.

    If Max had come out straight away, set the record straight, apologised for  any offence unintentionally caused and kept a low profile for a while, then this would not have undermined his ability to do the job, even if all of News of the World’s allegations had turned out to be true. It would have had the secondary benefit of letting his preferred successor practise some of the more high-profile parts of the FIA presidential role – and at some point Max will surely want to retire, if only to go on a beach and finish reading the books he’s always wanted to read…

    As it was, staying quiet for six days and then trying to blame News of the World when it was his own behaviour that was raising eyebrows look like his two key errors. NotW has long been suspected of being marginal in its news collection methods, and I for one initially refrained from commenting because I thought that the whole thing would turn out to be a fabrication. By staying silent, the rumours ended up convincing the mainstream press before Max opened his mouth. It certainly proved the old adage "Give a lie 24 hours’ head-start and the truth will never overtake it".

    Blaming the press made him look guilty and incapable of good judgement – and the president of the FIA has to be capable of good judgement to command the respect of others. This lack of respect opened up a vulnerability for his enemies to exploit, expanded further by the Crown Prince of Bahrain’s predictable "dis-invitation". That’s what will cause the premature end of Max’s career – lack of trust. Max’s scandal merely presented the opportunity to convert the distrust. The act was personal; the response to other people’s responses was public.

    Had Max governed well, or even if he’d acted promptly to limit the damage he caused through the scandal’s publication, it is unlikely that this affair would have done more than temporarily inconvenience him. As it is, I think we will see him leave the FIA stage in October 2009 and quite possibly earlier.

    And Fireblade, Keith is a him, not a her. And the underlying forces of this campaign are the writer’s duty to say/write what he/she sees (which presumably underlies your comment as well), annoyance at Max’s repeated refusal to do what is right and concern at the likely consequences for F1, motor sport and the FIA.

  13. Michael Counsell
    20th April 2008, 16:32

    Its a very good blog even though I whole heartedly disagree with some of the stuff on here, its better than most proper F1 websites.

    If you search for F1 on google this is the 23rd page so it is influential.

    The moral judgement argument paragraph is pretty awful and I think it is morally wrong to consider someone’s sexual preferences as any criteria for suitability for a professional position.

  14. Michael, point taken.  I don’t think it’s Max’s sexual preferences that’s the problem.  I mean, a lot of people are into S&M and no one minds.

    I think the issues here are twofold:
    1. His S&M allegedly had serious Nazi connotations.  The Nazi connotation is very distasteful especially for someone who wants to lead a "Racing Against Racism" program.
    2. He cheated on his wife and his family.  And what a way to do it… with 5 prostitutes.  For someone in such a high position, a certain moral standard is expected, as he should be a role model.  And he has fallen way, way short on that standard.

  15. 1-"Blaming the press made him look guilty and incapable of good judgement – and the president of the FIA has to be capable of good judgement to command the respect of others. This lack of respect opened up a vulnerability for his enemies to exploit, expanded further by the Crown Prince of Bahrain’s predictable "dis-invitation". That’s what will cause the premature end of Max’s career – lack of trust. Max’s scandal merely presented the opportunity to convert the distrust. The act was personal; the response to other people’s responses was public."
    That shows your very weak understanding of the minimum rights of protecting the human privacy.So i really don’t know how would u look like getting caught with a prostitute giving u a …job and filmed and published and I am 100% that u will blame first thing the press and will never blame yourself…I smell double-standard fumes…

    2-"And Fireblade, Keith is a him, not a her. And the underlying forces of this campaign are the writer’s duty to say/write what he/she sees (which presumably underlies your comment as well), annoyance at Max’s repeated refusal to do what is right and concern at the likely consequences for F1, motor sport and the FIA."
    The objective writer’s duty is to outline the all aspects of any present problem and to show all different point of views, not to impose and force a very specific point of view.
    3-The writer seems not to be living in Europe where hiring prostitutes is legalized.Filming is not legalized and this is a point which i did really miss in this forum.What i drink/eat/ religion I believe in and who I sleep with is of no one’s business.Period!
    4-Why did the objective writer not investigate the persons and interest groups who are standing beside this set-up crime?
    5-The reason for the newspaper in question to publish this article in the first place was-among other hidden reasons-to boost lagging sales numbers!

  16. Michael Counsell
    20th April 2008, 17:14

    To Journeyer

    1.  The Nazi thing is speculation and is mainly just the newspapers saying Nazi-style.

    2.  Maybe his wife knew no one really knows and his kids are in their 30s and can look after themselves.

    If the morality surely the road safety and motor racing safety campaigns he has lead outweighs this incident.

    At the end of the day its up to the people that elected him to decide not the general public or the media so any argument I give is irrelevant.

  17. Fireblade, I think you’re missing the point of why Max got into trouble.  I mentioned the two points above about the Nazi connotation and the cheating/adultery angle.

    "The objective writer’s duty is to outline … all aspects of any present problem and to show all different point of views, not to impose and force a very specific point of view."

    It’s a blog.  HIS blog.  He can write what he wants to write, so long as he does not go against any law.  Also, you might have missed this entry:

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/04/10/the-coverage-of-the-mosley-scandal-on-the-times-f1-blog-is-missing-something/

    So don’t say he isn’t being objective about it.

    Keith has brought up the pertinent facts from both sides across different entries – I suggest you go through them, they’re all available here.  And he has the right of free speech to voice his opinion on the matter.  Also, this is not a news site.  If that is what you want, go to Autosport or BBC.  But this is a blog.

  18. Thanks for the reply, Michael.

    "1.  The Nazi thing is speculation and is mainly just the newspapers saying Nazi-style."
    – Point taken.  The problem is, the general perception of people is that this is true, even if this may not be correct.  There have also been specific details in the tape that allegedly point to it, but I think the trial should give us clarity on that.

    "2.  Maybe his wife knew no one really knows and his kids are in their 30s and can look after themselves."
    – Even if his wife knew, that would still be distasteful, I think.  Just because she doesn’t stop you means it’s not wrong.  But you’re right, no one knows for sure if they knew, so I digress.

    "If the morality surely the road safety and motor racing safety campaigns he has lead outweighs this incident."
    Those campaigns are well-appreciated, but issues like this tend to be looked at in isolation, without the positive or negative influence of the other things that he did in his tenure.  Remember that he’s also had a lot of controversial moves in F1, but they don’t matter either in this scandal.

    "At the end of the day its up to the people that elected him to decide not the general public or the media so any argument I give is irrelevant."
    You’re right on the money there.  But based on the statements the different auto clubs are issuing, things don’t look good for Max right now.  It’s going to take a miracle for both Max AND motorsport to escape unscathed from this one.  Even if Max does pull it off, it might come at a great price: we could (just possibly) see the biggest motorsport civil war since FISA-FOCA in the 1980s.  I don’t want that to happen, but you never know.

  19. James Steventon
    20th April 2008, 17:27

    It appears to me as if Max Mosley is in a state of denial, or already knows the decision of the sports governing council.
    The point that everybody is trying to make, and the one that
    Max Mosley is choosing to ignore, is the damage that this scandal is doing to Formula One’s reputation.
    In an interview last year with BBC’s Hardtalk programme, Max Mosley was very open in his criticism of McLaren over the Stepneygate affair, accusing Ron Dennis’s team of showing ‘poor judgement’.
    That may well have been the case then, but is that not the same situation now with this scandal? Marry that with the fact that Max Mosley is an elected official incharge of the F.I.A, and should show impeccable judgement at all times.
    Staying on for another eighteen months is not the answer, and I hope the F.I.A realise this for the sake of Formula One. Maybe the only real option is for the sponsors to lay down the law hard, and to threaten to withdraw all their millions in sponsorship money.
     It would seem that a sharp pain in the wallet is all these people understand, or respect. They certainly don’t respect the wishes of the fans, that is for sure. 

  20. Well there’s clearly a lot of heat left in this debate!

    Rohan – Half the population are into BDSM? Really? I’d like to see some stats on that…

    Marc – Isn’t being asked to stay away from events as in the case of Bahrain hurting his ability to perform as he was “hired” to do?” – I think that states the case against him quite clearly. He’s now trying to get the film banned in France – aren’t there better things for the president of the FIA to be spending his time on?

    Fireblade – where do I start?
    "anti-Max Mosley campaign" – is that the bit where I said the Nazi stuff was probably made up, or that The Times have an agenda, or somewhere else? Incidentally, as far as being objective goes, I’d like to see if any newspapers have bothered commenting on the link between the FIA’s lawsuit against the Sunday Times and the sex scandal. Because I haven’t seen any.
    "you should have printed the complete article" – Are you kidding? And get sued for copyright infringement? It’s hard to take your points about he legal aspects of the debate seriously when you’re telling me to steal other people’s content.
    "her" – erm, no. The picture at the bottom of the page should give you a clue.

    Alianora – "if he’d acted promptly to limit the damage he caused through the scandal’s publication, it is unlikely that this affair would have done more than temporarily inconvenience him."
    I’m not sure about that – I can’t imagine what he could have done to mitigate the effects of these revelations. We get a lot of scandal in F1, but this is pretty incendiary stuff.

    Michael Counsell – "I think it is morally wrong to consider someone’s sexual preferences as any criteria for suitability for a professional position"
    A very fair and challenging argument I think. If you consider it without the ‘sex’ element though, what we have here is someone who enjoys punishing people. Can you be entrusted with a position in which you have to give out severe punishments while admitting you enjoy punishing people? I think that’s quite different from, for example, discrimination on grounds of ‘sexual preference’ (e.g. heterosexuality or homosexuality).

  21. Keith, yeah that was a rough guess, but it’s pretty safe to say that much of the population are into bondage of some form or other (although maybe not to the punishment-extent that Max is).

    On a different note, I’d like to point out that while I disagree with you on this particular issue, your blog as a whole is an excellent one and certainly rivals other, more "news orientated", websites :)

  22. Keith I think what Alianora was trying to say is that if you challenge the lie with immediate effect and give a truthful (or something that makes what you did acceptable) version of events then your PR image is saved somewhat. It still takes a hit but it isn’t obliterated like what has happened now.

    Think of it this way if a driver deliberately crashes into another and when asked about it, they stay silent what would you assume happened? This situation is no different, had Max made a challenge instantly then it wouldn’t have escalated to what it is now. And had his reponse been a lie as long as he got away with it, and it’s been done before by others, the mainstream media wouldn’t have jumped all over it.

  23. I see what you mean Rabi. And Rohan, of course you don’t have to agree with everything I write. Just most things… :-)

  24. @ Fireblade – the best thing about blogs is that they express the opinions of those who write them. I may not always agree with what blogger writes but I love reading blogs especially because what is there is personal and not tied up by any company policy …

  25. I don’t really get this argument at all.

    In the video, Max was on the receiving end of a fair amount of punishment himself – how do you want to tie that into his professional life?

    He clearly enjoys taking as much as giving, so if you associate the giving punishment side of things to his working life then surely there must be an association there with the taking side as well?

    Just because someone enjoys something in their private life doesn’t mean he simply must look for that same enjoyment through his work – you may be right and punishing McLaren last year really did turn Max on, but you no more know that to be right than I know it to be wrong.

    For sure Max and Ron don’t get along, so Max would no doubt have found some pleasure in dishing out that particular punishment but to put it on a par with an evening spent with 5 prostitutes appears to me to be taking things a step too far.

    I still think Max should have gone as soon as this whole story emerged, but I think as time passes by and the whole sordid affair is being twisted one way and another to fit various people’s agendas (mainly the NOTW, Times etc) then I think the main focus is switching away from the actual facts and more into speculation.

    Let’s hope the Max saga dies down a bit, and we have 6 weeks or so which are filled with F1 for a change!

  26. To Keith:You could have printed the link…but you wanted to impose a certain point of view.It is very obvious that u take the Mosley scandal very personal for whatever reason..

    and why didn’t u comment on the following:
    Filming is not legalized and this is a point which i did really miss in this forum.What i drink/eat/ religion I believe in and who I sleep with is of no one’s business.Period!

  27. Robert McKay
    20th April 2008, 18:32

    "Let’s hope the Max saga dies down a bit, and we have 6 weeks or so which are filled with F1 for a change!"

    Oh god, wouldn’t that be nice. One can only dream.

  28. Fireblade I think it’s obvious to most people why I didn’t link to the Pitpass story – because I linked to the original story instead. Can you explain what value you see in linking to a secondary article when I can link to the primary one?

    I don’t know why you say I take the Mosley story ‘personal’ – it’s nothing to do with me at all, except that I’m interested in F1 and write an F1 blog so – guess what – I’m going to write about it!

    I assume based on what you’re written that you don’t think Mosley should step down. That’s fine I have no problem with anyone holding that opinion and there are plenty of people to disagree with me (see above and elsewhere). But perhaps if you explained why you think that instead of constantly having a go at me I’d be more inclined to listen to you.

    As for the filming thing – maybe it’s legal, maybe it’s not, but I suspect the court case will decide.

  29. To Keith:
    -I would liked if you have criticized a professional act Mosley did…but u attacked a aspect of his personal life!
    -The filming is completely illegal….as I asked u before and u ignored the remark it for whatever reason:
    "So i really don’t know how would u look like getting caught with a prostitute giving u a …job and filmed and published and I am 100% that the first thing u will blame is the press and will never blame yourself…I smell double-standard fumes…"

    Can u answer the stuff?

  30. what I want to know is, is why is the vote to decide Mosley’s future at the FIA by secret ballot?
    Is it to protect the delegates form reprisals from the FIA or is it to protect the delegates from reprisals from their own associations?

    A secret ballot will make it far easier for Mosley and Ecclestone to manipulate the results will they not?

    Should the vote be independently verified by an independent body?

    Not that we should in any way distrust the FIA and those that govern it:-))

  31. I suspect that the number of MMs’ letters of support are as credible as the lot of complaints’ he had about the McLaren garage position in Bahrain.   Ref:
    http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2008/04/the-mclaren-g-1.html

  32. Facts are facts and Mosley IS a pervert.
    I doubt any proper court would have imposed a 100 million dollar fine on Mclaren when there was NO proof that they did anything wrong.

  33. Lady Snowcat
    20th April 2008, 21:12

    I am just worried that the NOTW may have managed, by printing salacious stories of private activities, which apparently have no Nazi connotations despite their suggestions of this, to effectively blackmail the WMSC into possibly sacking Max…

    The same guy who was litigating against a sister paper…

    Max was foolish and unwise in his personal life but many people are… that doesn’t make them less suited for their jobs… unless the activity is related to their job…

    If there really were no Nazi connotations why oh why is everyone quite so exercised…

    Or is it just a case of "We don’t like Max and don’t care why he’s going, he should just go!"… if so I am disappointed as that is irrational and just asks for the NOTW and other Murdoch papers to do this again, and again and again….

    That would be wrong….

    PS I am not a particular fan of Max’s but would want him ousted for the right reasons not the wrong ones…. 

  34. Fireblade Mosley will defend his position on the basis that the case against him is founded on illegally-obtained material. McLaren made a similar plea when they faced the FIA last summer after being accused of a different kind of cheating in the Stepneygate saga. The response, published by the FIA in their transcripts of the hearing, was unequivocal: "The World Council’s only concern is whether that list is accurate and truthful. We are not concerned with whether there are issues over how that is obtained. Unless there is evidence that it is forged or inaccurate, we will take it on its face value. We do not enter a debate about Italian law; we have neither the time nor the skills for that." And the author of those quotes? Yup, you guessed it, none other than Mr Max Mosley. As you say – “I smell double-standard fumes…"

  35. To be honest any reason that ousts Mosley is the right one. There have been enough "right" reasons in the past that haven’t done the job, and I think at this stage most people with rightly take any reason going.

  36. I think in the past people have been forced to resign from positions they held because they either gambled, drank or took drugs. All things that had to do with their private lives, but still felt as compromising the position they held. And in Mosley’s case, its been found that he is a sick individual. Even if "half the world" did it, that doesn’t make it the correct for of sexual stimuli. According to the story, he got turned on by inflicting pain and also receiving same, beating someone till they bled? you call that normal?

    The real issues here are not that Max had his privacy invaded, its just that he has shown his hands to be a hypocrite and a self centered individual who is oblivious to the damage he leaves around him. As I stated in a previous post some days back, if he derives pleasure from inflicting physical pain, he will also derive pleasure from inflicting emotional pain, because he is a psychopath.  His actions, have been responsible for many teams going under. Imagine if a poor team like Super Aguri really had to build their cars this year to meet the regulations, they would have wasted even more money as they will then have to build a fresh car the following year.

    All manufactures in the sport and and those wanting to come in, have always asked for a stable regulation. With a stable regulation they can plan out incremental performance steps probably over many years as it may be possible for a team to use the same cars for several years. But as it is now, a new regulation change almost certainly requires the construction of a new car or expensive modifications to an existing car. This was the same man who wanted the use of slimmer tyres  in 1995 because he felt drivers were not flying of the track and crashing, thus there was not enough spectacle.

  37. Lady Snowcat
    20th April 2008, 21:56

    Hmmm….
    I see that the force against the guy is strong… and you believe he is from "The Dark Side"…. but I still think that on this…. you guys are not quite rational…
    And I think you’ll find it’s a case of "Be careful what you wish for…it might just happen"…. and it won’t be at all what you expect…

    But no doubt we’ll see pretty soon now…

  38. Lady Snowcat, do you imply that we may end up with TWO gnomes running F1 ?

  39. I may also want to include the Mclaren fine fiasco into this argument. The FIA (Max) had just imposed a penalty of $100 Million on Mclaren. Despite that, he still left a the possibility of inflicting further punishment on the team if the FIA at a later date discovered that Mclaren had actually used the Ferrari information. In other words, he was already looking for ways to keep punishing the team for the same offense over and over again all through the season. This was not just and issue of being right, it was hatred, and basically he could punish Mclaren and Mercedes at the same time because, he hates Ron Dennis for the fact he was a mechanic who made it into the aristocratic world, and also Mercedes were the key instigators of the GPMA or a potentially rival, car manufacters based alternative to F1. He could not resist the opportunity to inflict pain on both parties. Not saying the Renualt allegation was base less, but he was almost apologetic in dismissing the case against Renualt, without first hearing evidence.

  40. Fireblade “3-The writer seems not to be living in Europe where hiring prostitutes is legalized. “

    And even if YOU DO live in the EU at best that statement is disingenuous. Every facet of the “profession” isn’t legal, in fact it’s illegal for a “potential client to solicit persistently, or solicit from a motor vehicle in the U.K.”

    Do YOU have specific and verifiable knowledge Mosley wasn’t persistent in his solicitation of the five girls?

    If so state it and give a source of your knowledge.

    Fireblade“4-Why did the objective writer not investigate the persons and interest groups who are standing beside this set-up crime?”

    Have you? You seem to imply there has been a set-up by someone, who did it? An “objective writer,” to use your terminology, wouldn’t make assertions without some type of proof, where’s yours?

    Fireblade, you’ve also noted the release of this filmed sordid episode and his right to privacy. While true he has that right the key question is who filmed it. Do you know for fact it wasn’t Max himself for his use at a later time?

    While the paper may be held culpable at some point for releasing it to the public, if Max had anything to do with the actual filming he’s in violation of English law that states it must have a basis of “perceived literary merit.” The film obviously fails that test and is illegal under the law.

    An “objective writer” would have noted that, you didn’t Fireblade, why not?

  41. It is beyond all belief that anyone with a whit of common sense can defend the "personal" acts of Max Mosley as not having an impact on his public decisions.

    When will society stop defending the rights of morally defective personalities in office when the public in general suffer the consequences? He’s got to go, end of story.

  42. Lady Snowcat
    21st April 2008, 0:13

    Oh dear…. so my views on privacy are beyond belief GK…

    Perhaps a lack of imagination there…. and as Max hasn’t insisted I take part in his "activities" then the only consequences I, or any commentator here has suffered are that the NOTW have tried to make us believe it’s important… when it just isn’t…. neither is it relevant….

    I don’t rate joining in a witch hunt as common sense but then perhaps I am just not used to stepping back in time like that….
    I had thought burning at the stake had gone out of fashion …but perhaps not….

    And as to the filming…. I suggest you read the Telegraph article in full folks….

    And finally… McLaren were guilty guys…they even had to admit it in the end…. bringing it up now suggests a bias in the matter rather than a balanced view….

    But in the end… if you are so wound up about people’s private passions and find them relevant to motorsport then I am sure nothing I say will change your mind….

    I guess you really, really couldn’t stand James Hunt or Eddie Irvine, not to mention many of the revered latter day heros of the track either….

  43. Lady Snowcat you are talking absolute rubbish, sorry but it has to be said. Privacy is all fine and well but people’s privacy is violated on a daily basis with no consequences handed out to the persons who conducted the violation in the first place.

    You are absolutly missing the point the guy was involved with prostitutes and was stupid enough to get caught. Surely you read the paper or remember an ounce of history within the UK and should realise what happens to people that are caught red handed with prostitutes. It nosedives!

    Case in hand read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Allan_Green
    That person was also a barrister, and was head of the Crown Prosecution Service, so again just as an important – if not more so – position than Max.

    I suggest you stop defending him there is sufficient evidence that he was doing what the NOTW were claiming. Talking in German, prisoner apparrel and a prison guard uniforms, also with his parent’s being two of Britain’s most notorious Nazis it doesn’t leave much to the imagination.

  44. Well said Lady Snowcat!
    By the way…As I mentioned before…I want anyone to critizise his work..not his private life…so why did the whole blog switched to mute mode when i asked for the critizism of Mosley’s work attitude?
    The best jokes I have heard on this blog,where the far-fetched illusions of some daydreamers that Martin Brundle or Ron Dennis should be Mosley’s successor…
    well press zero and continue daydreaming!
    P.S:Do we have anyone on this blog who honestly thinks that the FIA treated McLaren in an unfair manner during the spy-scandal….?

  45. Lady Snowcat“then the only consequences I, or any commentator here has suffered are that the NOTW have tried to make us believe it’s important… when it just isn’t…. neither is it relevant….

    If that’s the case (based on the long list of VIP’s within the racing community wanting him to step down) your position places you far outside the mainstream on this issue.

    Perhaps I’m wrong, by chance have you seen ANY poll of f1 fans that had anything less than 70% calling for his head? If so I’d be more than pleased to look at it.

    Fireblade“The best jokes I have heard on this blog,where the far-fetched illusions of some daydreamers that Martin Brundle or Ron Dennis should be Mosley’s successor…
    well press zero and continue daydreaming!”

    Pots & black kettles.

    Wasn’t that precisely what you were doing by asserting there was some grand conspiracy based on your “far-fetched illusions” against Mosley?

    Or perhaps I’ve missed your proof of that.

    “P.S:Do we have anyone on this blog who honestly thinks that the FIA treated McLaren in an unfair manner during the spy-scandal….?

    Sure I will, but only in so far as the amount fined, but that has since been cut by half hasn’t it?

  46. "I want anyone to critizise his work..not his private life…so why did the whole blog switched to mute mode when i asked for the critizism of Mosley’s work attitude?"
    Do you really want me to do this, Fireblade?  I can go on and on here… But for the sake of brevity, I’ll stick to the major sticky points: Spygate, Indy 2005, and constant rules changes.  Most F1 fans would know of these three points AT LEAST, some would claim others.  Do you have any idea how long a good number of people wanted Mosley out SOLELY because of what he was doing as FIA president?

    "The best jokes I have heard on this blog,where the far-fetched illusions of some daydreamers that Martin Brundle or Ron Dennis should be Mosley’s successor…"
    Well, yes, those are long shots.  Others, like Sir Jackie Stewart, are much more serious names, if they really wanted to be FIA president.

    "P.S:Do we have anyone on this blog who honestly thinks that the FIA treated McLaren in an unfair manner during the spy-scandal….?"
    I think McLaren was guilty too, but I’ll let the others discuss how they see this one.

  47. Journeyer… 2005 USGP. Nail hit squarely on the head.

    That debacle was orchestrated by Mosley and led to a drop of nearly one hundred thousand in paid attendance in 2006 and finally “Uncle Bernie” pulled the plug on the race completely.

    Mosley’s been far, very far from a competent administrator for a very long time.

    Go ahead, apologists for the Littlest Perv, defend that action.

  48. Fireblade, having read this blog for quite some time now (amongst many others) I would suggest that people thinking the McLaren punishment was fair are in the minority, by quite a margin too.

    Maybe you’re right in saying this is just an excuse for people to call for Mad Max’s head on a platter – but then whose fault would that be?

    Had Mad Max been good at his job, fair & impartial, innovative and taken F1 in the correct direction then people *may* have been willing to overlook a less than savoury incident in his personal life.

    However, since the answer to all of the above is a resounding NO, then blame can be laid in one place only, firmly at the feet of one Mr Max Mosely.

  49. We haven’t discussed Max’s work attitude here, largely because there is a lot of discussion of it elsewhere. As well as the things Journeyer has listed, I would like to nominate reintroducing traction control in 2001 (and then only getting rid of it 5 years after he promised to get the devices removed, blaming the manufacturers), the "cost-cutting" initiative in 2004/5 that cost so much more money that three teams had to sell out to other organisations, the "mass dampers" of 2006 (Max asked the FIA appealed itself to force a judgement implicitly banning all F1 cars without noticing there might be a problem) and his completely inconsistent treatment of the various espionage cases in the last four years.

    I consider McLaren to have been treated extremely unfairly in the McLaren/Ferrari mess – McLaren offered plentiful legal arguments to support the notion that they merely had a rogue employee. The supposedly-revelatory Alonso/de la Rosa e-mails merely proved that there were three rogues rather than one, while also suggesting that not even their engineers knew about the Ferrari information. Yet the FIA ignored all this and simply let Max Mosley’s opinions stand alone and unsupported as if they were themselves legal evidence. They were not, yet the WMSC still considered Max’s opinion to be worth more than evidence or legal argument. Just to rub everyone’s noses in it, they then gave two of the three guilty parties amnesty. Then there were the endless investigations and innuendos, which more or less forced McLaren to pretend to apologise (if you read the full text of it, the apologies do not admit to anything happening) in order to get the FIA to stop messing about.

    When compared to Toyota in 2004 (ignored despite a formal court judgement against them), Spyker in 2007 (mildly reprimanded on a different rule despite visual proof of the document being in the wrong hands) and Renault in 2007 (guilty but no punishment despite sort-of admitting to considerably more than McLaren were proved of doing), McLaren’s treatment was blatantly unfair.

  50. Alianora & Journeyer – I’d add the disgraceful episode in Melbourne 2005 where Mad Max assumed superiority over the entire Australian Judicial System, and then further in his arrogance, threatened taking away the Melbourne race because the he disagreed with the ruling.

    I have been calling for his resignation ever since.

  51. As always, an active debate over the antics of Mad Max.

    My stance on this situation is very basic. As head of the FIA, Max is entrusted with representing the best interests and wishes of motorsports the world over. This includes people of nearly every race, ethnicity and religious faith. It is clear to anyone watching Max’s video that he is involved in fantasies  and role-playing that is designed to capture the spirit of one of the most destructive and oppressive acts of mass murder in human history- a movement that was aimed at specific faiths and ethnic groups that are represented by Max in his current role.

    I don’t know if any of you who support Max have any assosiation with groups that fell victim to the reign of Nazi terror he is re-enacting, but in my book, he has demonstrated an atittude that is clearly offensive and hurtful to many people around the wolrd whom he is paid big money to represent. That renders him ineffective and untrustworthy in his current job, and he should step down accordingly.

  52. And to Fireblade, I would simply say that if you discuss the ethics of professional journalism in the future, it may be in your best interests to address someone as "you" and "your" rather than "u" and "ur"- it just makes your stuff look that much better.

  53. Alianora la Canta for President of the FIA. ‘Nuff said.

  54. Todt-Mosley-Ferrari, a glowing Todt recommendation for The Littist Perv to stay on the job…. sure lets reignite an old tired conspiracy theory.

  55. VERY interesting, Keith.  I think this may actually reflect Ferrari’s position as a whole. (Unity between LDM and Todt?  Surely not!)

    Todt can’t really attack Max.  He was previously favorite to succeed Max as FIA president, so it would be distasteful of him to be seen positioning himself to take over.

    But since this Mosley-gate blew up, Todt’s chances of becoming FIA president have dropped significantly.  As it is, if Mosley is indeed voted out of the FIA, Mosley’s virtual endorsement of Todt may be the kiss of death for the tiny Frenchman’s ambitions (if indeed they do exist).

  56. Well that is no surprise – Max calling in one of his IOU’s

  57. Now there’s a surprise Todt standing by the pervert Mosley

  58. There are alot of other people in sport who’s action has affected the outcome of the F1 championship when compared to anything which Max Mosley did when he stripped off the constructor points off McLaren.Actually even if the Woking based team would have keept the points,it would have lost to Ferrari by small margin.
    Michael Schumacher did alot of stuff that influenced the outcome of the F1 driver’s championship results..e.g.Schumi-Hill,Schumi-Villeneuve,the fuel affair when he was driving for Benetton…and the two famous Senna-Prost clashes where Ron Dennis did not even think to interfere to constrain Senna’s rude driving style.
    So who’s decisions and actions did affect the outcome of the F1championship more in your opinion?

  59. "Actually even if the Woking based team would have keept the points,it would have lost to Ferrari by small margin."

    That’s because McLaren decided not to appeal the points that were docked against them at Hungary by the FIA; a move many say was controversial in itself.

    "So who’s decisions and actions did affect the outcome of the F1 championship more in your opinion?"

    True, the guys you mentioned affected the outcome, but the scandal affected something even bigger than the outcome: the entire image of the FIA.  A group’s image is mostly based on the image of its leader’s (a basic leadership concept), and as the FIA covers the entire MOTORING industry (both autosport and road cars), his actions are affecting both sides of the industry.  A good number of people have expressed hesitation of working with the FIA due to this, in particular, the auto clubs which are VOTING MEMBERS of the FIA.

  60. Mosley did say he enjoys blogs, I’m just wondering which of these ids is his.

  61. I cant believe how many people have strong opinions on this matter, OK, he was caught out…but really, its MAX MOSELYS life, his time, his choices.
    How is his sex life going to effect how he does his job? I think he has done a fantastic job with the FIA especially in the efforts to reduce the amount of deaths on the road, and am sure in many other areas too.
    Everyone done things they are not proud of…thats life.
    Give the man a break!

  62. How is his sex life going to effect how he does his job?

    I did explain my argument about that in the post (‘The fall’ bit).

  63. Fireblade “So who’s decisions and actions did affect the outcome of the F1championship more in your opinion?”

    Um… lets see if can puzzle this one out.

    All the examples you have given have affected individual races in a single series for the most part.

    One the other hand Max The Littlest Perv Mosley’s actions have affected all of the following because of his position as president of the FIA.

    FIA championships 2008: F1, WTCC, FIA GT Championship, FIA Euro GT3 Championship, FIA World Karting Championship, FIA European Touring Car Championships, FIA Truck Racing Championships, FIA Cross-Country Rally, FIA European Drag Racing, FIA European Rally Cross, FIA AutoCross, FIA Alternative Energies Cup, FIA Hill Climb, FIA Hill Climb Challenge, FIA ….

    There’s ten more. do you need any more Fireblade?

    And that list doesn’t scratch the surface of all the individual countries that have a direct association with the FIA via their local sporting committees and clubs. And about a dozen of those have asked for Max’s head on a silver platter.

    And take special note of the FIA World Karting Championship. The vast majority of its participants are minor children.

    Max as a good role model for those kids about now?

    Far from it and I suspect a parent or two involved in the series would agree.

  64. oliver: i was wondering that myself. whichever is which i think the other one looks alot like bernie.

  65. CVC should come out and insist Mosley is replaced as he has brought F1 and the FIA into disrepute.
    If there man (Ecclestone) chooses not to follow CVC’s instructions they should sack him – now that would stir things up!

  66. Ahhh… I like that idea A LOT, DD!  Very interesting.  :)

  67. Did Clinton resign?He denied an affair with Monika,lied under oath and is still respected!!!

  68. Max, is that you?

  69. Fireblade if you think Bill Clinton is still respected then you truly are in a fantasy world of your own making. Your defense of yourself (Fireblade/Max) is pathetic and worn out. Hopefully when Max is gone you’ll take your tired defense of him as well.

    My last comment on the topic, as there’s really not much more to say.

  70. KB, my take on how this situation impacts Max and his ability to do his job effectively is fully outlined in my post up at #50. I do think it’s  a shame that he’s comitted such immoral acts as adultery and patronizing multiple call girls, but what infringes on his job are the attitudes he had displayed in those acts that are clearly aimed at reliving the Holocoust. Max heads a worldwide orginisation that represents many different people, and his behavior is representative of hateful acts committed towards groups of people he is paid to represent in a fair and just manner.

    I have no vendetta against Max- i’m way too new to F1 to comment on his policies and decisions in recent years. I just think the head of the FIA should demonstrate a better sense of morals than has been displayed here.

    And on the topic of Bill Clinton, his actions were indeed shameful and disrespetful to the office he held, but they did not include re-enacting one of the most destructive acts of genocide in world history. Any admiration he has today comes from what were overall good and prosperous years under his leadership- especially when compared to the current admnistration- and not from his affair/impeachment.

  71. As a woman (some would say not a bad looking one) I am anti prostitution and for those that don’t know a huge % of women in the sex trade are not there by choice.

    If it wasn’t for the likes of Mosley and those that support him prostitution would loose any view that it is somehow OK to use women just as objects.

    Very few women enter the sex trade by choice or do men think women do.

  72. Lady Snowcat
    21st April 2008, 20:35

    Well I respect Bill for how he led the US … and I still respect his political leadership far more than his successors….

    Sorry but I completely fail to see how a guy’s sexuality affects his ability to make decisions etc… I am sure a psychologist could make an argument about how certain activities could have a positive effect on a guys ability to make sensible decisions….

    And Gman…. apparently there was no Nazi angle… have you watched the vid perchance….

  73. He just likes to chant things in German does he?

  74. Lady Snowcat“Sorry but I completely fail to see how a guy’s sexuality affects his ability to make decisions etc…”

    For the sake of discussion lets stipulate the scandal won’t affect his decision making process, M-kay?

    However, Max said in his latest interview he accepted that “a few ex-drivers” had criticized him, but said none of Formula One’s real “opinion formers” had said anything.

    Now Firecat, what are we to make of that statement in light of the fact real opinion makers HAVE made very emphatic statements he resign.

    Opinion makers such as execs at Porsche and Volkswagan asked he step down or said no mas, they aren’t going to invest in F1. Opinion makers such as nearly a dozen leaders of motoring associations across the globe have ALL stated he should go.

    Now, the fact he denys any “opinion formers” have spoken out tells you one of two things, he’s a bald-faced liar, or has gone completely ’round the bend and is a few nuts short of a Snickers Bar and his decisions can’t be trusted.

  75. Lady Snowcat
    21st April 2008, 22:08

    Oh marc…

    Porsche said they wouldn’t enter F1… but they had never shown the slightest inclination before this… in fact they have oft said that it was unattractive to them…they didn’t need it…

    It’s pretty obvious that their comment was a sly prod (a slightly unfortunate turn of phrase perhaps) at Mercedes and, to a much lesser extent, BMW….

    So I would completely discount them as opinion formers…they are just trying to gloat…..

    I have been trying to see if their were differences between the Federations who spoke against and those for….
    So far we have the Latin country of Brazil for him, and also the UAE… whilst the more cold blooded German, American and Dutch have said no way….
    Somehow, given say, France and Italy’s disinterest in the affaires of their politicians, it would seem odd for them to come out against him …. even if they are basically Catholic countries….

    We have an interesting dynamic don’t we… and the UK crowd are waiting for the meeting I recall and not jumping to judgement…

    But I see that your mind is made up… and I would guess that you have been less than impressed with Max in the past… but I still live in hope of a balanced and unbiased debate….

  76. Snowcat, how is the Porsche quote a "sly prod" at BMW and Mercedes? Those two criticised Mosley as well, just as Porsche have done.

  77. Lady Snowcat
    21st April 2008, 22:58

    Because Keith, it is insunuating that Merc are wasting their money not getting very far whilst Porsche eschew F1 as unnecessary to their marketing effort…..

    Mercedes are desperatly seeking the sort of "gloss" through F1 association and are now being tarnished…. whilst Porsche don’t need it and wouldn’t want it….

    I just see it as a German ****ing match…

    With Porsche sniggering behind their hands…..

  78. OK but their remarks about Mosley don’t have anything to do with that.

  79. Lady Snowcat“Porsche said they wouldn’t enter F1… but they had never shown the slightest inclination before this… in fact they have oft said that it was unattractive to them…they didn’t need it…”

    Snowcat, you are one sad individual. You cling to the “privacy issue” as if it were the last life-rail of the Titanic above water.

    And as in this case after being given a list of dozens of FIA sanctioned/sponsored events, events Mosley has direct control over, you ignore each and every one of them except the single one you “think” there is something to hold onto, Porsche’s statements they wouldn’t enter F1 now.

    Why ignore the rest Snowcat? Could it be deep down you know you’ve been devastated on each and every point in this thread – accept privacy and that issue at this point is DEAD, its out there and ain’t going back – but are unwilling to let go?

    “Snowcat continues… “But I see that your mind is made up… and I would guess that you have been less than impressed with Max in the past… but I still live in hope of a balanced and unbiased debate….”

    Thanks, “balanced and unbiased debate,” I needed my daily chuckle.

    There isn’t a “debate” with you and this is just another indication of it. You’ve completely ignored all the points documented in this thread where Max has consistently failed to do his job in a reasonable and professional manner.

  80. if mercedes feels they are "being tarnished" by f1 now doesn’t t that imply that max’s private-now-public actions are having a negative impact on the sport itself? 

    god, i’m going to regret typing that.

  81. Lady Snowcat
    22nd April 2008, 0:31

    No I have not ignored your points marc… I have made points that I believe are valid as you have yours…
    In my view the debate is about the NOTW bringing private life into public view… and that is what I have posted on…

    We are not debating Max’s past sins here, as the WMSC has supported those, so they are as guilty as he…if indeed either are guilty….. all disagreement on those is baggage that isn’t the point here in my view….

    When I do answer, like the Porsche point you don’t appear to listen as it doesn’t accord with your view…

    I guess you think that because someone has a less than salubrious private life that speaks to his other decisions…. but I believe that great statesmen of the past have had dark secrets and still functioned well ….JFK comes to mind if not Bill Clinton…. both Disraeli and Gladstone were not without stain I recall… and I believe that Max as the Honorary (unfortunate title I grant but he isn’t actually paid) President has an apolitical role albeit one where he states his views…

    Sorry but the motorsports calendar and races are not like running a country or having your finger on the button of a nuclear arsenal and neither does Max purport to be a preacher or marriage guidance counsellor….  

    You see relevance where I see none… and we won’t agree will we?….

    I am obviously a fuzzy liberal whilst you …aren’t….

    That’s the way of the world… I do understand that there are other points of view… and I also understand that we are both entitled to them….

    But unless you answer with a more persuasive rationale on why we should allow the NOTW to dictate to anyone I will struggle to see the sense in your arguments I am afraid….

  82. Lady Snowcat
    22nd April 2008, 0:40

    On a lighter note…

    Someone on the F1blog site pointed me in the direction of this…

    Tres funny….

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpxtLgk88ZE

  83. Poor marc:
    "You’ve completely ignored all the points documented in this thread where Max has consistently failed to do his job in a reasonable and professional manner."
    That was the best Freudian slip I ever heard….No single individual on this board could pinpoint one single professional error done by Max Mosley that was done during his work. 
    and snowcat is 100% right:
    "“But I see that your mind is made up… and I would guess that you have been less than impressed with Max in the past… but I still live in hope of a balanced and unbiased debate….”
    Alot of people on this blog claim to be neutral and objective…but they are subjective,biased and opinion-imposing people.

    Last but not least:
    What exactly didn’t u like about Max Mosley:
    -His preference in terms of sexual fantasy?
    U could be more into swinger/gangbang etc. stuff
    -That it was a set-up and he got caught?
    The fact that no one was caught from the blog members during his sexual excursions is very simple…no one of you is either famous /deserves to be seduced into a trap/has alot of enemies who are waiting for a mistake(not even work related) to take u down…

    And for the end of this debate:
    -I pity more the motives of those who saw it appropriate  to pay for such scenes to become public!
    -I will not stand by and watch the man setup and slaughtered by people obviously worse than him!

  84. Brilliant link, Lady Snowcat!!!  MEGA video!  :)

    Moving on to fireblade:

    "You’ve completely ignored all the points documented in this thread where Max has consistently failed to do his job in a reasonable and professional manner."
    That was the best Freudian slip I ever heard….No single individual on this board could pinpoint one single professional error done by Max Mosley that was done during his work.

    Fireblade, what on earth are you talking about??? There are TONS of errors we’ve pointed out, and they’re all over this thread!  And no, there was no Freudian slip there.  At all.

    "Alot of people on this blog claim to be neutral and objective…but they are subjective,biased and opinion-imposing people."
    I think it’s more of that people have seen both sides of the story objectively, then made up their mind based on it.  But I guess you see it differently.

    " -I pity more the motives of those who saw it appropriate  to pay for such scenes to become public!
    -I will not stand by and watch the man setup and slaughtered by people obviously worse than him!"
    Glen Crompton from Pitpass, is that you??  I remember those 2 lines, word for word, from his latest piece.

  85. “We are not debating Max’s past sins here, as the WMSC has supported those, so they are as guilty as he…if indeed either are guilty….. all disagreement on those is baggage that isn’t the point here in my view….”

    Wrong again, you are the one that brought “past sins” into the conversation by requesting people’s thoughts on why we thought he was unsuited for the job.

    It was answered and now you act all innocent of the fact. Pfft, Debate 101 you’re not strong at, you can’t remember what you yourself have written.

    You want current sins, why? You ignored the few I have posted.

    Puzzle me this (again), just why is it you so unfailingly support a now known and proven liar, i.e. his claim that no “opinion formers” have spoken out?

    That is flat-out, unadulterated BS. He can’t possibly not know the dozens that have. Plain and simple he LIED. In the present not a year ago, now.

    Or is it possible you are so ignorant of F1 matters that you believe, for one example, the Crown Prince of Bahrain isn’t an “opinion former?”

    (NOTE: don’t hand me any crap about Bahrain being a Muslim country and the idea of a sex scandal is the problem. I’ve lived there the place is rife with alcohol and Filipino/Thai/Indonesian/Russian prostitutes)

    If you believe that you’re so far out to lunch you’d never be asked to sit at the table to eat.

  86. I love the fact that the both of you (Snowcat and Fireblade) are completely ignoring everything we present.

    Bottom line ina ll of this is that Nazi Max got caught, well tough he got caught he should have thought a bit more before trying to sue Rupert Murdoch. He won’t be the first victim and he certainly won’t be the last. It’s not nice the way it’s happened but I don’t remember anyone telling me we live in a nice world to begin with.

    Simply put Max got what he deserved because guess what – nobody likes him. Except for you two obviously so why don’t you join Max in his next session :p

  87. Max Mosley will stay…and the all the rats will seek a hiding place before he extinguishes their light of life after the vote!

  88. "Max Mosley will stay…and the all the rats will seek a hiding place before he extinguishes their light of life after the vote!"

    Just like his Nazi daddy no doubt taught him. Another more relevant reason why the vengeful twit needs to go. There is no mind more closed than Max’s once HE determines a course of action, and woe be to you who oppose him, right Jackie, Martin, etc. etc. etc.?

  89. I really liked your blog! Thank you, I would come back to read some more

  90. great site – added to my favourites for sure – do you use twitter?

  91. Well, you have the idea and info..sharing information if good will always benefit others. :)

  92. Thanks heaps! Cant wait to read more.

  93. Very nice information. Thanks for sharing.

  94. I really liked your blog! Good job.

  95. I found your blog on google and read a few of your other posts. I find your Blog very informative just added you to my Google News Reader. Keep up the good work. Look forward to visiting your site more often in the future.

  96. Very nice information. Thanks for this.

  97. I really liked your blog! Keep up the good work, I have checked out a few of your posts and I like what you write.

  98. awesome blog post. Bookmarked it already. cheers, Tulay.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments are moderated. See the Comment Policy and FAQ for more.