Debate: Are some starting grids unfair?
Nik left an interesting comment in the Turkish Grand Prix Facts and Stats article about how much of an advantage the drivers who started on the clean side of the grid had at Istanbul:
Hamilton (third) overtook Kovalainen (second)
Kubica (fifth) overtook Raikkonen (fourth) and Kovalainen (second)
Alonso (seventh) overtook Webber (sixth) and Raikkonen (fourth)
Heidfeld (ninth) overtook Trulli (tenth)
Rosberg (eleventh) overtook Trulli (eighth) and Couthard (tenth)
The rules prevent drivers from being allowed to clean the piece of track they start from. But should that rule should be changed to lessen the disadvantage of starting off-line, particularly at tracks like Istanbul where it is a big problem?
The sporting regulations state:
30.3 b) Other than by driving on the track, Competitors are not permitted to attempt to alter the grip of any part of the track surface.
However it is clear that some circuits lend a massive advantage to drivers who start on the clean side. This is because at circuits like Istanbul and the Hungaroring the racing line passes straight along the grid hatching for the drivers behind the pole sitter.
That combined with how infrequently those circuits are used makes an off-line starting position a major disadvantage. So should something be done about it in the interest of fairness?
Allowing the teams to prepare the surface as they wish might be one solution. But I expect if that were allowed we would quickly see teams applying some kind of grip-enhancing chemical to their starting positions to improve their getaways!
A simpler option might just be to allow the track organisers to clean the surface. This is often seen in Indy Racing during caution periods to allow drivers to use the higher line on ovals for overtaking.
Another solution would be to use a rolling start at these races, which would lessen the disadvantafe of having to start off-line as the car would already be moving. A proper two-by-two one as seen in Indy Cars would be rest, rather than the one-by-one rolling starts occasionally seen in F1 when it’s very wet (like at Fuji last year).
I think that would be a welcome addition to the spectacle that would add some variety and require the drivers to show another element of their race craft.
Do you think something should be done? Or is it not a problem that needs solving?
the limit said on 13th May 2008, 3:46
It looks pretty obvious that most people don’t want the ‘rolling’ start to be introduced, but I do think the start at Turkey highlighted an age old problem.
On Saturday, everybody was applauding Heikki Kovalainen’s performance, and rightly so.
After coming back from that 150mph crash in Barcelona, to then put his McLaren second on the grid, showed the man’s determination and talent. He really dug deep for that advantage, only to lose it at the start.
We saw the same thing with Kimi Raikkonen, widely regarded as one of the quickest starters in F1, so it was not something that only affected Kovalainen.
For me it is simple. The full grid must be free of all spent rubber, or ‘marbles’, and other debris, before the start of any F1 race. There must be no excuses, no reasons for not doing it.
Lets face it, it only comes down to cleaning twenty grid hatchings, thats it! Otherwise, why should a driver push for second on the grid when he is better placed in third? It defeats the whole object.
milos said on 13th May 2008, 5:15
I think the simplest solution would be the easiest one here – before race send a commando of cleaners and clean up the grid . not that difficult I believe. it still would not make the conditions 100% equal but at least the starting grid would be more fair
but drivers do not seem to be too concerned about this, haven’t heard anybody calling out for any action on this issue, so the “dirty side” of the grid is here to stay for a while
Sri said on 13th May 2008, 5:35
Me thinks that the advantage to be gained when on pole is perhaps the initiative needed to qualify better. So it is fair, i’d say.
Can we also go back to ligh-weight, all ballsy quali of yesteryears? I thought that was whole point of it. To find who can go quickest. Now we have strategies and blah blah blah. It adds to racing alright, however, i liked it much more before. Also, i thought Kimi and Kovi lost positions owing to their tangle.
MacademiaNut said on 13th May 2008, 6:12
Here’s my solution to this problem.
Starting from the best qualifier, you allow the racer to choose their position in the grid. Clean and Simple.
In this case, Massa would have chosen 1, Raikkonen would have chosen Grid position #3; Hamilton probably would have chosen #2.
I agree that they need to do something about the grids; Perhaps the above solution is too complex to implement. Cleaning the surface before the race may be much simpler.
Nathan said on 13th May 2008, 8:06
no rolling starts!
they’d end up up running in thier grid order!
Robert McKay said on 13th May 2008, 8:36
This is why Sunday morning warm-up was so useful: the drivers/teams know where they’ve qualified by then and so can go spend some time cleaning up their grid slot and laying some rubber down. Bring that back…? But MacademiaNut’s suggestion also makes some good sense.
Rolling starts seem very hit and miss – getting the field to line itself up properly is very difficult and I sometimes think that the race directors just let dodgy starts go (A1GP – guilty) because it’s so tricky to align at the right moment.
On a completely tangential note – how possible would it be to create a track where the track surface off the racing line was laid with a much grippier tarmac than that on the racing line? I suggest this idea partially because of this and partially because I wonder if it would help overtaking if yo could go off-line and find an equivalent (at least) level of grip.
Sush said on 13th May 2008, 8:42
rolling starts for F1 tracks like Melbourne where the first corner is pinched could prove problematic, so many cars already nearing top speed at such a tight corner.
I think its a good idea, but at least wait until Coulthard retires to make sure its safe.
Oliver said on 13th May 2008, 10:36
Its the same for everybody.
Rohan said on 13th May 2008, 10:41
Keith, I feel that if a rolling start is needed it is because the drivers in the series are unable to master a standing start.
Also, (I think that) there have been a number of occassions where the “two-by-two” aspect of the grid hasn’t been fully “enforced”, and when that happens it looks decidedly amateur. It might be possible for F1 to remove this amateurish look to the rolling start, but I feel that F1 should be “special” and one part of that is that it doesn’t have rolling starts.
On another note, I’d love it if they brought back the morning warm-up, which would have the added benefit of allowing drivers to clean up the grid in a “normal” fashion.
DG said on 13th May 2008, 11:21
To digress a little:I like the idea of a ‘non-flying’ restart – the Safety Car comes out, ALL the cars are allowed into the Pits for fuel/tyres etc, No 1 car then No 2 car. When all the cars are on track they are allowed to get back in order behind the Safety Car, who brings them back to the Grid, where they stop and the SC does a final lap to confirm the track is clear (like at the start), and as it comes to the back of the Grid, the race starts again.
Keeping the track clean at the start of a race is very important – surely the millions of FIA Officials who are present at every race would be checking on this? It would seem very unfair if there was seen to be an advantage anywhere on the Grid – and the FIA would pick up immediately if a Team or a Driver was seen to make an advantage for themselves!
Perhaps its time for the Drivers and Teams to call for a better standard of track at the circuits? And a much higher standard of ‘Clean’ track? I think every circuit should have the ability to keep the Grid, the Racing Line and the Corners very clean!
Alex Andronov said on 13th May 2008, 11:25
DG the problem at a circuit like Turkey is that you’d never get off the first lap. There is always a first lap incident.
Sush said on 13th May 2008, 11:55
Rohan, yes and no, while standing starts are difficult rolling starts have a whole other degree of skill needed, being able to keep a fuel heavy car stable.
Which was Newtown’s and Montoya’s major strengths.
Brar Soler said on 13th May 2008, 12:31
In my view standing starts are more fair then the rolling ones, except in the adesion point. (good point to debate Keith!).
To clean de grid is very diferent then changing grip (like to spread glue, sand or oil over the the track). I hate “over-rules”.
Fred B said on 13th May 2008, 12:58
Instead of cleaning the dirty side, why not add dirt to the clean side?
(kidding!)
Fred B said on 13th May 2008, 13:00
Sri: “i thought Kimi and Kovi lost positions owing to their tangle”
They tangled after both losing positions due to starting on the dirty side of the track.