Mosley makes lurid new claims in desperate bid to stay in power

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Max Mosley, Red Bull, 2006, 2, 470150

Max Mosley has written to the presidents of the FIA motor sport clubs around the world in a new attempt to press his case and avoid a motion of no confidence in him at the Emergency General Meeting on June 3rd. Grandprix.com claims to have seen the letter and has published a portion, describing the contents as “explosive”.

In it, Mosley argues he should not be voted out of office because Formula One Group (which controls the commercial side of the sport) is trying to take control of the sport’s regulations away from the FIA. He even suggests the News of the World received the tip-off about his involvement in sadomasochistic sex orgies from someone who wanted to get rid of him and influence the negotiations.

What are we to make of these bizarre new claims?

(Update: download the letter in full here)

What Mosley claims

His letter to the clubs has not been printed in full but the portions that have make fascinating reading. To summarise:

  • Mosley claims to have received letters from members with a total of 75 votes in the FIA General Assembly (the FIA’s supreme body), 62 supporting him and 13 against*.
  • Mosley says Formula One Group wishes to change two terms of its ownership of F1: one financial (presumably costing the FIA money), the other giving it greater control over F1’s regulations, which is currently the FIA’s prerogative.
  • Mosley believes the News of the World were tipped off by someone who wanted to get rid of Mosley and disadvantage the FIA in those negotiations.
  • Therefore, Mosley concludes, he should not be voted out of office, because the FIA needs him to combat this move by Formula One Group. He added he still intends to step down in 2009 anyway.

*There is a typographical error in this part of the original story but this seems likely to be the correct interpretation.

How much support is there for Max Mosley?

Assuming the letters Mosley claims to have received are both real and truthful, we should still not jump to the conclusion that he has majority support. He claims to have received indication of how 85 votes will be cast from a total of 222.

However those supporting him are more likely to write and pledge their backing because that way they might guarantee concessions for themselves in the future should he remain in office. But those who do not support him have little to gain by condemning him – they can just let their vote do the talking when the time comes.

Mosley wants the debate on his terms

As has been noted earlier here, Mosley is trying to make this debate about the parts of the argument he thinks he can win. His first line of attack was to deny the alleged Nazi connotations and the FIA has now appointed a lawyer (Anthony Scrivener QC) specifically to report on whether those aspects of the allegations are true.

Mosley does not want a debate about whether a man with a sexual appetite for injuring and humiliating people (regardless of any claimed ‘Nazi’ leanings) should hold an office of such responsibility. An office from which extremely strong verdicts have been handed down, not least in the recent past.

His earlier claim he would step down in 2009 is almost an attempt at a compromise: “Don’t throw me out now, I’ll throw myself out later.”

Mosley is a politician of great skill and he understands that, as Otto von Bismarck said, “politics is the art of the possible.”

He cannot convince the motor sport clubs that footage of him in a five-hour sadomasochistic orgy did not damage the FIA’s reputation – but he might be able to convince them the Nazi angle is fake.

He doubts he can convince them to let him stay indefinitely – but he fancies his chances of getting them to let him stay on until 2009 with, as he says, “almost all public representation of the FIA [left] to the two Deputy Presidents.” Of course, if he does get to stay on until 2009 then who’s to say he won’t have another change of heart as he did when he decided to resign in 2004, and stay on a little while longer?

Is his Formula One Group claim serious?

Bernie Ecclestone, Silverstone, 2007, 470313

According to Mosley Formula One Group is trying to re-negotiate the terms of the commercial rights to the sport which the FIA sold to it for a period of 100 years.

He goes on to argue that if he were elected out of office these negotiations could be delayed or halted by the wait for a new FIA president to be appointed.

This surprising claim raises several questions, not least:

  • How are Formula One Group able to demand changes to the contract? Had Mosley allowed them to re-negotiate their terms? And if so, when did he make that decision?
  • Why would it matter if the talks were delayed? Is the FIA working to a time limit on these proposed changes? If so, why hadn’t that emerged sooner? (Under the FIA statues were Mosley to resign an election would have to be called within two to four months of his resignation).
  • Who is demanding the changes to the terms? Is it Bernie Ecclestone, CVC Group, or both?
  • The European Union told the FIA it was not allowed to be both the commercial rights holders and the regulators of F1. What makes Formula One Group think that if they were both the commercial rights holders and the regulators of the sport they would not also be investigated by the EU?

It seems to me that it’s very convenient of Mosley to suddenly come out with this new reason for why he should remain in power. Why has it only come out now? Might it be because the news of Mosley being snubbed by Prince Albert of Monaco broke today?

Also, given his closeness to Ecclestone, we cannot rule out the possibility it might be a stunt co-ordinated by the pair of them to keep Mosley in office a little while longer.

Are his conspiracy theory claims serious?

Mosley’s claim that someone trying to undermine the negotiations by tipping off the tabloid press about his fondness for whipping prostitutes is surely the most astonishing part of his letter.

As mentioned earlier the Czech Republic’s World Motor Sports Council representative Radovan Novak recently withdrew his suggestion that McLaren boss Ron Dennis might have played a role in the scandal coming to light.

But I am suspicious Mosley has not yet acknowledged another potential source for the expose, even to deny it. The link between the FIA’s lawsuit against the Sunday Times, the fact that the same people who own that newspaper own both the News of the World who ran the story in the first place, and The Times who’ve been pushing it hardest since it broke, has been covered several times on this site.

What happens next?

The EGM is two weeks on Tuesday and it’s likely we’ll hear more claims between now and then. Mosley may well have supporters lined up to leak more titbits about his interesting new version of events.

The News of the World originally claimed it would send the full video tape to the FIA members allowing them to make their own conclusions. It or one of its sister newspapers may well have saved some previously unpublished facts or photographs to release in the days leading up to the meeting.

Whatever happens, I don’t think the FIA will be able to focus on its real business until Max Mosley has left office, this sorry mess can be put behind us, and the work of rebuilding the reputation of F1 and the FIA can begin.

(Update: download the letter in full here)

58 comments on “Mosley makes lurid new claims in desperate bid to stay in power”

  1. Now that I’ve had the chance to read the letter in full (this article was originally written based on what grandprix.com printed) one thing that stands out is this:

    To do so would be to abandon core elements of our patrimony including, for example, our ability to protect the traditional Grands Prix

    Here he is waving a big, juicy carrot in front of all the European motor sports clubs who have Grands Prix. He might as well just say “vote for me and you can keep your Grand Prix.”

  2. I see this as a ploy worked out with Bernie for Mosley to hold on to his power, and the sad part is I can see it working.

  3. Robert McKay
    16th May 2008, 22:56

    The FIA is doing such a good job of protecting the European races already, isn’t it Max….?

  4. Green Flag
    17th May 2008, 1:32

    Max’s claims are not bizarre, Keith, your irrational hatred of Mosley is what’s bizarre. His knowledge and mastery of the FIA and F1′ s politics and machinations far exceed your understanding, Keith, but it’s far easier for you to take cheap potshots at Mosley under the guise of some form “journalistic integrity”, particularly in this largely one-sided forum of mostly like-minded Mosley and Ferrari haters that you’ve created. I come to this blog because I love F1, the cars, technology, drivers, circuits, races and racing. Your overly-critical, hate-mongering blogs are not helpful or useful and contribute nothing to the sport, focusing only on the negative. It’s most disappointing; do try to clean up your act.

  5. There are 6 billion people who would rather negotiate the commercial rights deal BEFORE Bernie and CVC. Seriously, they are at the very back of that queue, it was the deal of the century, they’d do it a thousand times over if they could. The arrogance of Max shines through in believing we will swallow this little fabricated crisis.

    I find it interesting that he chose this topic though, perhaps it’s a signal to Bernie: ‘If I don’t get to serve out my term and hand things over to Todt, like we planned, my successor could start digging around in our past and the deals we’ve done’. What would happen to Bernie’s CVC deal if it turns out he didn’t legally have the rights to sell in the first place? Ouch, that would hurt even Bernie’s bank account.

    Green flag, I wonder how differently I would have to view the world to believe it is Keith, rather than Max, that needs to ‘clean up’ their act. Rather differently, I reckon.

    I reckon this is a desperate throw of the dice for Max. He’s threatening Bernie with the biggest stick he has: the biggest deal Bernie ever did, namely the sale of the commercial rights to CVC. It’s a message, loud and clear, get behind Max or it could get very messy. It also forces Bernie’s hand – he has to either go along with this re-negotiation ‘crisis’ line now, and therefore help Max, or openly deny the claim and show his true colours. Max will remember how Bernie stabbed Balestre in the back with his vote of confidence – pretending to round up support while secretly campaigning for Max – and will want to box Bernie in before he can repeat the trick.

    I look forward to the day when my sport isn’t the pawn of this man’s mega ego. Sadly I have this horrible feeling he’s going to make it through the vote.

  6. GF: Hate mongering? Keith has expressed his opinion quite clearly and concisely and given his reasons why he has chosen his particular stance. I think that you would be safe in assuming that the posts in agreement with him reflect the stand that the F1 community in general is taking.

    Max has shamed himself personally, but the real item up for discussion is: is he still fit to represent motorsports internationally? The general consensus seems to be no. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, however, you are in no position to affect, or even influence those that are in the position to make the decisions regarding Max’s future, so defending your position so doggedly has no other affect than shouting into a windstorm. I respect your differing opinions, but insulting someone who does us all such a great service merely attempts to reduce the argument to a pissing match. Let’s try to keep the discussion civil, shall we?

  7. Well pointed out Keith. I had no knowledge of the Sunday Times link and the News of the World.
    At the end of the day, Max Mosley has made so many enemies within the sport and in the media, that not even Agatha Cristie’s Miss Marple could get to the bottom of it all. Last year, there were so many rumours over the spy scandal, so many personal attacks against Mosley and the FIA, that I do think a conspiracy is highly likely.
    How lucky for the media hacks, to have that room decked out with secret cameras, capturing Mosley’s enjoyment so perfectly, so embarrassingly.
    It smelt from the word go!! However, Mr Mosley has a short memory. He scoffed at suggestions last year that there was an FIA conspiracy against McLaren and Ron Dennis, with the relevent point that they had been caught cheating.
    Conspiracy or not, Max Mosley was caught bent over a table getting spanked by some hot bird wearing kinky gear. If that had been Gordan Brown, he would have been gone the following morning.
    You can’t lead something like the FIA with the opinion of a saint and the morals of a polecat.
    He is in such a huge position of power, with billions of dollars and so many people riding on ‘HIS’ decisions and ‘HIS’ judgement. HE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER!
    Just as McLaren should have done last year.

  8. Oh, and another thing. When the sex scandal broke in the USA, it caused great amusement amongst the F1 ‘haters’ in the American motorsport media.
    When the subject of F1 came up, the first video I saw was of Mosley’s backside getting spanked, and not an F1 car insite. Now, I know it is good to advertise,but what are they advertising, a Carry On film?
    Carry On Karting perhaps. It was bloody embarrassing to watch a once professional, respected, envied sport like F1 be turned into such a farce because of one man.

  9. Green Flag
    17th May 2008, 3:52

    Phil B, Arnet – While I respect your opinions, they are based on and colored by Max’s admittedly repugnant, but private, behavior – behavior, that he certainly had no desire to see publicized, a) because it’s deeply embarrassing, and b) because people like you – the holier than thou crowd – would use it against him since you never liked him – probably due to envy, jealousy – in the first place. But like him or not he is the best person to run the FIA during the next difficult year or so, and his so-called “bad” behavior in no way diminishes his managerial and administrative talents. I truly hope he survives the upcoming vote a) because he’s still the best man for the job and b) it will stick your collective craws.

  10. William Wilgus
    17th May 2008, 4:04

    I certainly could be wrong, but I don’t think Max is in Kansas anymore (refering to the line from The Wizard of Oz).

  11. Green Flag, I don’t know how long you’ve been posting here, but I’ve found plenty of Ferrari fans on this blog in the 5 months since i’ve been following it. For many obvious reasons I will not mention their exact posting names, but just follow the replies on most any post for a bit of time and you’ll identify many of them.

    Secondly, I don’t think anything Keith has written here is biased one way or another- it just lays out the facts and the possible outcomes.

    My only question for you, Green Flag, is why is it so important for Max to stay in office for the next year or so? If F1, the FIA, and motorsports in general are facing some sort of major challenge, shoulden’t he be there to see it through the tough times that could come up after 2009?

  12. Are sport lovers really bothered by nuances like Mosley scandal etc. that they stop following it, don’t turn up for races, ask their friends and family not to follow it, etc. Bad name sometimes gives good publicity and people turn their head around and follow it and sometimes it can give sport new audience. Although i am against farce i.e. Mosley and would like to see him out of this sport, but i truly admire whatever good he has done to this sport.

  13. Green Flag, I feel the opposite about Keith, he’s created articles that are completly unbiased. Although this one is slightly one sided.

    Keith, fancy doing an article on Ron Dennis’ nature and him being a control freak, should spice things up a bit.

  14. Alan made a valid point on the previous Mosley article, will the sponsors leave if Mosley stays?.

    the Magma deal fell through for Aguri shortly after the scandal broke….

  15. Nikos Darzentas
    17th May 2008, 11:15

    I’m a Ferrari lover… and I think Keith’s blog (remember it’s a blog please) is the best thing to happen for F1 fans since the invention of the wheel …I wave the green flag my friend ;-)

    even if some articles are one-sided, the vastness of the internet and the blogosphere would certainly allow someone to see the other side pretty easily – in fact, one-sidedness usually provides more meat to chew on

    as for Max, and anyone in a position like his, should have an all-round solid personality, because the black can rub off onto the white pretty easily – Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde is not a true story… right?

  16. Just reading through the letter, it makes me wonder if Max isn’t preparing the ground for a background role in the FIA, managing the commercial negotiations.
    That doesn’t rule out its being a play to maintain power for the remainder of his term, but it certainly provides an argument for being retained in a non-presidential role if the EGM doesn’t go well (for Max).
    The letter itself already bows to the inevitable (that Max can no longer function as the ‘face’ of the FIA, given that so few external VIPs are willing to be seen with him), the required redesignation of roles might be presented as an administrative matter, saving face all round.

  17. Oh how funny it is to read this last throw of the dice as it was already called in the form of a letter to the FIA Presidents. And added to that the hilarity of Green Flag’s comments, which are so clearly biased, that it makes you wonder where Mr. GF actually comes from…
    So, GF, would you care to explain how the great 100 year deal that Max now seems to be renegotiating came to existence? Oh yes, Max was instrumental in it, and through it the FIA lost out on ridiculous amounts of money which surprisingly enough ended up at the doorstep of Bernie, who of course is in no way connected to Max’s career, his being appointed President of the FIA or receiving a lot of money in due course of the process of Bernie taking control of F1.
    Max’s letter has no honour, no class and is just desperate. He’s squirming in it like he was squirming when he got spanked, maybe he does take some of his SM behaviour into business after all.
    Green Flag, there is only one camp that you could possibly be coming from if you knew of the actual facts as you claim you do. If so, say “Hi” to Max and tell him to shove it asap!
    If not, you are just a sad, sad person sticking up for something he can’t grasp, rather than accusing other people of failing to understand…

  18. Green Flag… Are you Max Mosley? :P

    Since Mosley told that he reads F1 blogs we can never know… :D

    Now seriously, this is well played stuff from Mosley.We already know that he can move very well and he is clearly trying to get people behind him against Formula One Group. One common enemy to help them forget what is really about the meeting in July.

    When he claims that these negotiations (comercial rights and concorde agreement) should be complete within a year (the last of his presidency) he is clearly very optimistic and trying to throw promises that i doubt he can fulfill, even so more when it is better for those who negotiate with FIA and Mosley to wait for a new President to take charge. Also, revealing FIA negotiation strategy is not that good.

    Is it me or he is really trying to fight the big clubs with the help of the small ones? How can he believe that he has the help to the small clubs?

    But at the end of the letter the “smooth transition” flag is a big one. And helps him to ensure that he can delegate his power to someone of his confidence. I sence that he almost could argue that anything that isn’t a “smooth transition” is bad for the sport, but then he risks being asked that if his personnal tastes are also bad for the sport. He will avoid this clearly. He already is manouvering into some kind of voting that expresses his will above all. I will be interested in seeing what this voting is going to be like…

  19. If what Max says is true, the FIA has put itself in a position in which its destiny is largely controlled by one person, which is worrying. He is arguing that he shouldn’t be replaced because the structure of the FIA and its electoral process are such that (a) they could ‘cease’ the progress of important FIA business (such as the negotiations with the CRH); and (b) they could result in the election of a president with ‘no knowledge of the background’ and who may even be supported by potential opponents of the FIA.

    If the CRH negotiations are so important, then surely there would be several people in the FIA capable of working on these negotiations with good background knowledge? After all, Max is only human, and there’s always a small chance he suffer a sudden accident or ill health. Max’s argument that his removal would have strongly negative consequences for the FIA can be used to claim that a sudden illness for him would also have strongly negative consequences for the FIA. If the negotiations are so important, surely Max should have a plan detailing what the FIA should do in case he is suddenly struck by ill health? Then such a plan could be used in the event of his removal from office resulting from a personal scandal?

    Note that I’ve made no personal judgements about Max here. I simply observe that if the inability of a President to continue his job (for ANY reason) can lead to serious negative consequences for his domain, then such a President has TOO much power and importance for the good of his own domain.

  20. Daniel PT, is he trying to fight the big clubs with the small ones.

    correct he is, and thats because he can threaten the small clubs with his ermm.. THREATS, and the small clubs have the same power of vote as the big clubs.

    under the FIA vote rules, no matter how big or powerful or how small and insignificant a club may be, they have to have the same power of voting.

  21. GF, you’re right in that I have never liked Mosley, precisely for his past and current behavior, and I don’t mean the hookers.
    You are wrong, however in insisting that Max is the best man for the job. How can a person continue to function at his job when no one will met with him? Every country that he has said he will attend a race has said “no thank you.” He’s toast. Oh, and also because he claims he is trying to renegotiate the deal he brokered in the first place. Tell me, was he wrong then, or is he wrong now? Either way, he’s wrong.

  22. michael counsell
    17th May 2008, 19:28

    Go for it Green Flag :)

    I think the claim that “the FIA will be able to focus on its real business until Max Mosley has left office” is pretty untrue and there is no real basis for this. I very much doubt that anyone in the FIA spends all day worrying about Max Mosley unable to focus…

    If they want him to stand down they need some kind of replacement and unless someone comes forward to be that replacement, removing him wouldn’t be that wise. You’ve probably got to stop thinking of him as a PR man for F1 but as a the head of an international organisation and its up to them to decide.

  23. GF, you keep repeating that Max’s “private” life has no impact on his public decisions when you damn well know it’s impossible to separate those two functions. His lack of “private” dignity and morals has been amply carried over in his public FIA actions, no need to repeat them as we are all too familiar with his history.

    Article 151c, from the Concorde Agreement, to which Mosley is a signatory: “Bringing the sport into disrepute. Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial The flag is the last refuge of the scoundrelto the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally.”

    “They’re out to get me”
    “The FIA needs me now more than ever”
    “I was setup by bad guys trying to take over the sport”
    “I was setup by Ron Dennis”.
    “I’m renegotiating contract terms with Bernie”
    “I can save your GrandPrix!”

    The flag is the last refuge of the scoundrel, all of the above is Max’s equivalent of waving his own flag. Enough said, time to go.

  24. The statement “I don’t think the FIA will be able to focus on its real business until Max Mosley has left office” is neither true nor untrue, it is an opinion.

    If you want to convince me my point of view is wrong, by turning up and saying “you’re a hate-mongerer” you’re more likely to achieve the opposite. A reasonable argument backed up with solid facts on the other hand…

    Those accusing me of “hate-mongering” should note that instead of just giving my side of events I have provided a copy of the full, unedited letter, something some of the other major F1 news sites have still not done almost 24 hours after the story broke.

  25. But that’s the problem. Mosley and his supporters don’t have reasonable arguments or solid facts.

  26. It is clear that the action taken by Mr. Mosley has polarised opinions from all over the world. Whether we like him or not is neither here nor there. I have a background in multi-national business and if I know one thing from that experience, it is that there must be a succession plan in place; the loss of one man cannot jeopardise the company.

    We are now being led to believe that, should Mr. Mosley go, then the entire future of Formula 1 is at risk. Clearly the management methods employed at the FIA do not sit well with good corporate govenance; an opinion I,ve held for some years.

    If the man who has been at the top of the FIA for a long time admits that it all rests on him, he condemns himself for serious management imprudence: for that reason alone he should resign or be fired.

    I imagine there are a lot senior people in the FIA who find Mr. Mosley’s opinion that he is the only one who can do the job as quite a serious snub to their abilities and reputations. I’d like to know what they feel about him right now. Not happy I imagine.

  27. Razza – that’s what I was saying, albeit a bit less eloquently than you :) As an analogy, we may consider that Max is claiming that he is the only person who can fly the plane in which the FIA members are all currently sitting.

    If this claim is false, then he is, by definition, wrong; there are others who can fly the plane if he becomes incapacitated. If his claim is true, then it’s a sad position that the FIA is in, for two reasons: (1) Any unforseen incapacitation of the FIA president would compromise the FIA to a greater extent than would be the case if there were another pilot on board. And (2) The FIA is in a position to be threatened by its own president; for if he has ensured that he is the only pilot on the plane, then he can do whatever he wants without fear of getting pushed out of the plane.

  28. I think it’s important to remember that there is a deeply funny aspect to all this. After years of sitting by and watch Max ruin this sport for his own gain we finally see him humiliated in the finest possible way. Yes the sport is still damaged but at least he is as well now. It’s progress, of a sort.

    A surname and personal history like his? A father like that? Accused of Nazi sex games? It couldn’t have happened to a better man. It’s the way I always wanted him to go.

  29. Steven Roy
    18th May 2008, 0:51

    Max’s latest missive is complete garbage. The agreement that FOG supposedly want to re-negotiate cost them half of what they earn from them in one year. Who in their right mind is going to try to re-negotiate a deal when they get 100 years of rights for the same amount of money they earn in six months? As soon as Max goes his successor will have to investigate this deal because it is very, very dodgy.

    It shows how many lies Max tells when he says he is the only person who can handle the negotiations. When the original deal was negotiated he disqualified himself from being involved on the basis that it would look like he had a conflict of interest so he put a four man panel in place to carry out the negotiations. The people concerned are not people I would want to represent me. How can he disqualify himself for the original negotiation but decide that not only can he be involved in the re-negotiation but no-one else on the planet is competent enough to take over.

    Max’s personal life clearly affects his ability to do his job. He has been banned from Bahrain. He dodged the launch of ‘his’ racism campaign in Barcelona and he is persona non grata not only by the Monaco royalty but by everyone in the paddock.

    We now have the FIA represented by a member of the Ferrari board. To me that is a conflict of interest.

    In his last press release Max informed us that he had decided he would retire in 2009 but hadn’t made it public because he learned from Tony Blair that as soon as you announce your intention to resign you lose all authority that day. So by his own opinion he has already lost all authority.

    Green Flag says Max is the best person to lead the FIA for the next year. Is there some magic date in 2009 at which he goes from being the only person to lead the FIA to being replaceable?

    I assume in Maxworld he thinks that when he leaves office every detail of everything he is involved in will be neatly tied up. Of course some major items will need to be handed over incomplete.

    The thing I struggle with is that FOG want to re-negotiate the contract to get rights Max doesn’t want to give them. The negotiations sound fairly straightforward to me. Send a letter saying you signed the contract. We have no interest in re-negotiating. If you are unhappy surrender the rights and we will negotiate from scratch. Why does Max need to re-negotiate a 100 year contract that has only been in place a decade? FOG want powers the FIA don’t want to give them so there is no need to sit down and discuss anything.

  30. michael counsell
    18th May 2008, 12:12

    Its interesting that an MI5 officer’s wife was one of the ‘prostitutes’.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/67518

  31. Green Flag
    19th May 2008, 1:06

    Keith and others: Firstly, your coverage about Max Mosley is never unbiased – the very title of this blog includes “lurid claims” and “desperate bid”, both terms loaded with derogatory and derisory implications. I understand that you’re playing to the gallery and preaching to the choir, but a modicum of fairness would make me, and I would like to think other viewers, happier. Second, there is much I can write to explain regarding my position re Max but we all know that whatever I write will fall on deaf ears or be met with the high minded scorn evidenced in earlier posts – see above. If anyone is interested in reading it, say so, and I’ll take the time to type it out.

  32. What is far more interesting Michael Counsell, is that the husband of one of the prossies has resigned – someone who was only remotely connected to this incident – yet Mad Max at the epicentre still lingers on…..

    Makes you wonder, doesn’t it?

    Green Flag, I think a lot of your POV stems from the fact that you feel that this info should not have seen the light of day. Thats as may be, but it has now and we have to deal with it.

  33. I agree with your post totally Spodo,These are the excuses dictators use everytime. If the FIA is a credible organization, then there will be several individuals aware and in tune with all that is going on concerning the within it. Excepting of course, these activities are all done in secret or to the knowledge of only one individual.

    Max you are not more important than the whole of the FIA. You are not handling negotiations that border on National Security, Moto racing is just Gas in the Air. There are others who can handle these “critical” negotiations. Please LEAVE.

    And by the way Greenflag, Keith is not putting Max on trial, he is only voicing how Max’s position currently tarnishes the image of the FIA and Formula in general.

  34. I’m thinking of this from the other direction now. Has Bernie suddenly become opposed to Max, or has it always been like this, and the bonhomie which the pair used to present to the public was just business?
    It is highly likely that Bernie and FOG (what a name for an administration!) do want to take over the FIA, lock stock and Monaco. By reading the blogs last week, it seems that Bernie (or Bernies companies) are gradually buying the more important circuits, and Bernie appears to be condemning those which won’t sell out or join his Group. So it makes sense that he would be after the FIA too. Perhaps he thinks he can convince the European Union that he isn’t the head of a monopoly, and a conflict of interest.
    It is also interesting to note what the various companies owned by Jean Todt, Flavio Briatore and Mallya play in the running and organisation of F1 and motorsport in general – it has been mentioned that Ferrari businessmen are turning up quite a lot in the FIA, but then Renault have a lot of interests at the moment, and Mallya just seems to be in the right place at the right time. Don’t get me wrong, these are the ones that are the most obvious to me – I am sure others such as Red Bull, Mercedes and Honda have lots of other companies too (after all why did the FIA chose the McLaren SECU after all the spite of ‘Stepneygate’?). So let me know if you can see other connections out there.
    But to get back to my main point – I think Mad Max’s indescretions are part of a bigger corporate battle which has been going on subtley for years, and has only broken to the surface now. Unfortunately it is going to be F1 and Motorsport which will suffer – most of the combatents are just going to make more money out of it.
    And before you all start complaining, this isn’t an anti-Max or anti-Ferrari rant, I am more concerned with the future of the sport, and that we as fans (and even the drivers and other team members) are powerless to stop it – there was a piece last week on the sudden lack of teeth in the GPDA.
    I know I’m being very holistic about this, but its the bigger picture which is more worrying than one man’s alleged indescretions!

  35. Green Flag, I assure you if you took the time to explain your position of course I will read it. I read every comment that goes on this blog (I wish I had the time to reply to them all but it’s just not possible).

    I think Steven’s question here has nailed it:

    Why does Max need to re-negotiate a 100 year contract that has only been in place a decade? FOG want powers the FIA don’t want to give them so there is no need to sit down and discuss anything.

  36. Where are the latest news about the women involved in the Max Mosley scandal?
    Prostitute in Max Mosley orgy scandal is wife of MI5 spy
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3958814.ece

    The possibility of a conspiracy theory are increasing slowly….stay tuned for more news!

  37. Where are latest news about the involvement about the wife of a MI-5 agent in the Mad Max scandal?
    The stocks of the conspiracy theory are increasing….even if some people do not like to admit it!

  38. Oh come on, Green Flag! Don’t sulk in the corner!
    To clarify my position, I don’t give a toss about him getting spanked or him spanking a few hookers, BUT the Nazi element cannot be tolerated.
    Even without this element he has no choice but to stand down as no one will ever take him seriously again, unless they are into SM themselves that is of course.
    Anyway, this subject has been discussed so many times, and admittedly I’m getting a little fed up with it, but this is exactly what he wants: Wait and see the problem disappear. But this can’t be an option for anyone involved, he just needs a little bit more pushing and he’ll be out so I urge everyone who can do that to get on with it and kick him out, even though he’s hanging on to this post for dear life for some odd reason…!!

  39. Green Flag
    20th May 2008, 0:32

    Michael K – I had thought we’d put the Nazi aspect behind us, but since you bring it up, let’s clarify a few things: the NOTW, the fine, upstanding bastion of even-handed journalism that it is, affixed the Nazi idea onto Max’s S&M scene – not Max and not his harem of hookers – to further embarrass Max and to make the whole episode appear far more scandalous, and of course, people like you swallowed it, hook, line, sinker and fishing pole. Have you always believed everything the NOTW writes?

    There was nothing Nazi about it, no military uniforms (black leather is de rigueur S&M garb, but you probably know that), no swastikas, no Hitler salutes or mustaches. Max did nothing illegal and only consenting adults took part. The job of FIA president is to devise, administer and enforce the rules and regulations of motor sport, not act as a role model and/or guardian for society’s morals and ethics.

    I fully agree with Alain Prost, whose thoughts on F1 I consider more cogent and relevant than yours – and many others on this blog – and who has urged FIA members to judge Mosley based on his ability to do his job and not on the sex scandal, a scandal manufactured not by Max but by others out to harm him by unscrupulous and dirty means. I would respect you more, Michael K, were you to be outraged by those who went out of their way to harm the FIA president, than attack the man who is the victim, not perpetrator, of a very ugly deed.

  40. Steven Roy
    20th May 2008, 1:54

    I assume Green Flag that unlike the rest of us you have seen the full five hour video. There is no point forming an opinion based on 90 seconds of a five hour tape.

    I would love to hear why you think Max is the best person to lead the FIA.

    I would love to read why he should re-negotiate a contract that is only a few years old. I would love to read why he is the only person to re-negotiate it when he disqualified himself from the original negotiations on the grounds of conflict of interest.

    The scandal was not manufactured by others. Max was kind of central to it. And being involved in it affects his ability to do the job. He was banned from Bahrain. He has had to give away his official powers for Monaco and he refused to go to Spain to launch his racism campaign.

    He is unable to function in the position of president of the FIA because of the scandal. Personally I would rather he had been removed for the lousy job he was doing or for the blatant bias he has been showing but I am happy to see him go as a result of his social activities.

    For the past two months he has been campaigning to keep his job rather than getting on with the work of doing his job. Please tell me why he should stay.

  41. theRoswellite
    20th May 2008, 5:31

    Excellent post Mr. Roy.

    He can’t perform his job, and it is certainly questionable as to how well the FIA is able to perform their job.

    I always thought that the British were somehow blessed with an inordinate sense of “good taste” and “fair play”, always following the rule that one’s own behavior should never negatively impact others.

    Perhaps this is not true of all the Queen’s subjects?

  42. theRoswellite
    20th May 2008, 5:38

    ….addendum: Of course if Mr. Mosley no longer carries a British passport…………….?

  43. Is nobody paying attention out there?
    OK, so Mad Max never was really up to the role of FIA President – and remember he only got there through a coup – he wasn’t voted in by anyone.
    But look at the possibilities of his replacement – is it going to be Bad Bernie, soon to be ‘Master of the Universe’, with even more conflicts of interest, or is it going to be Jean Todt, who will be more pro-Ferrari than Max is (unless he is a closet Honda man) – will it be Flavio Briatore, and the world will turn Renault yellow – or even VJ Mallya, an outsider who has suddenly appeared and says nice things to people with his money – Or maybe someone you have never heard of?
    Think hard fellow Fanatics, you may want Max to be replaced – and you may get exactly what you wish for!

  44. It is not going to be Bernie. The touring clubs would never vote him in. Same goes for Flavio and Mallya. Todt has been very closely associated with Max and would have succeeded him had Max not handled the aftermath of the NOTW story so badly. If Max had stood up and said he felt he had to resign for the sake of the sport but that Todt could step in and guarantee continuity then Todt almost certainly would be president. However Max has spent the last couple of months alienating people and I expect Todt to suffer as a result.

    For me running motor sport is not the job of the president of the FIA. Sport should be run by FISA but Max closed it down to prevent someone using the FISA presidency to launch a bid for his job. FISA must be re-instated.

    Max has been a disaster as president and I don’t see that there can be many worse people for the job. I saw a week ago that Ari Vatenen was quoted as being interested in it. Assuming Jackie Stewart is not simply being politically expedient when he says he doesn’t want it Ari would be my choice. He has everything you would want in a president. He is a 42 carat legend. A driver in the Colin McRae mould. He is an accomplished politician having been a member of the european parliament for a decade and in all the time I have been watching motor sport I have never heard anyone say anything negative about him other than he took to many risks behind the wheel like Colin, like Gilles.

    I can’t help think Ari’s version of F1 will be better than Max’s tactical chess with push to pass and blatant bias. I can’t imagine Ari’s top priority will be Bernie’s bank balance but then I am sure Ari won’t benefit from Bernie’s bank balance in the way that Max has been rumoured to benefit.

    Hands up everyone who believes Max moved to Monaco because of the european arrest warrant. Nobody. Not surprising as moving to Monaco would give him no immunity whatever. Another Max lie.

  45. I think Robert Darblenet (president of the American Automobile Association, one of Mosley’s biggest but most discreet critics and sufficiently conservative to not offend too many people in terms of the professional policies he uses) would make the best replacement for Max. Given that the AAA have been among Max’s strongest critics at this time, I could imagine Robert quietly setting up such a campaign. It would explain why Max felt the need to attack the large touring clubs so much – the AAA is the largest touring club of the lot…

  46. Green Flag I don’t believe everything I read in NotW but neither do I automatically conclude that everything they write is false. In fact, they have been right about such things on a number of occasions in the past. Your post suggests that you either have access to evidence that the rest of don’t, or that you’re willing to come to a conclusion based upon insufficient evidence.

    You’re probably right that there were “no military uniforms… no swastikas, no Hitler salutes or mustaches”, because if there were, NotW would have revealed this by now. Many of their arguments (such as ‘speaking in German implies Nazism’) are of course terribly weak. But I somehow doubt they are stupid enough to actually believe in such arguments, and I suspect they are holding some cards close to their chest. For a start, they claim to have a witness – one of the hookers – who has yet to make a statement in any court.

    Besides, you may argue that Max’s background makes it easier for him to be *portrayed* as someone who has Nazi-themed sex fantasies. But a psychologist could argue that his background genuinely makes him more likely to have such fantasies. The evidence so far is only circumstantial, but strongly so. Of course circumstantial evidence is not and should not be enough to condemn an innocent man. But my point is that you only have a plausible theory – that Max was deliberately smeared – but little or no evidence to support that theory. There simply isn’t enough evidence in public for us to make a definitive judgement about the existence or otherwise of Nazi overtones. To confidently claim there was “nothing Nazi about it” suggests that you are willing to argue in support of Mosley without due consdieration of the facts; that you perfectly fit the definition of a fanboy.

  47. GF, no I don’t believe everything the NotW write, but I do believe that they have had some very capable legal people looking through what they write. Given the likelyhood of very high damages to be paid in case they were wrong, I conclude that it is highly likely that the Nazi element is actually true. Or would you say the NotW is that stupid? The story was already juicy enough without the Nazi element, so no need to construe that out of nowhere.
    And no matter how Max was caught, in the end he was and here we are!

    Steven Roy, I also saw Ari Vatanen come up as a possible replacement and my thoughts are exactly the same. I somehow doubt that he would be able to break into the position unless he gets some strong support from somewhere. But that would be the same for everyone once Max goes, so he probably stands a real chance.

  48. Come to think of it, as Max and GF keep banging on about that there was no Nazi element in the whole thing it makes me wonder what their defence might be. I guess the defence will be that there were no clear signs that it really was a Nazi camp that was being portrayed, but merely a “German-speaking domination scenario.” Now they might claim that there were also other German speaking camps (like in the GDR), or that prisoners even before the 3rd Reich were generally treated like this. Or that German is a more commanding language and therefore better suited for these types of scenarios.
    This is probably all true, but please, where have we come to if this is supposed to be the reasoning that clears Max’s name? And more importantly, who do they think they are kidding? And most importantly, how much would this discussion harm the FIA and F1?
    So then Max would become known merely as the “German speaking SM-Lord” rather than the “Nazi SM-Lord”. How comforting…

  49. The best thing about this blog that it does never hide the following fact:
    This is an anti-Mad Max campaign…
    The serious question is..who is behind the whole story?And for what reason?And why at this very specific timing?

  50. Green Flag
    21st May 2008, 3:25

    To Steven Roy, theRoswellite, Michael K, Spodo (!?), et al, you’re all naive, gullible, totally biased and ultimately wrong about the entire Mosley saga. You may continue to yelp and holler that I’m wrong until you are all blue, but you’ll still be wrong. Let the yelping (and hollering) begin!

    PS: If the NOTW had any real evidence of Nazism they would have shown it by now; Max has outright denied a Nazi element and he would know whether the NOYW would be in a position contradict him.

  51. Green Flag, I have not said there was Nazism involved. I explicitly stated that there isn’t yet “enough evidence” that proves the Nazi allegations, but by the same token, there isn’t yet any evidence for you to claim “there was nothing Nazi about it”. Does this make me “totally biased”?

    You claim that I’m “ultimately wrong about the entire Mosley saga”. I presume you come to that conclusion after reading my posts – but what have I said that is “wrong”? I haven’t claimed there was Nazism involved. I haven’t claimed that he should be removed from office. I haven’t claimed that Max is an unfit president. I suspect that the fact that my posts are not proclaiming that ‘Max is great’ has led you to the conclusion that I must be biased against Max.

    My two main claims in this thread have been: (1) Either Max is lying about his importance to the FIA, OR one person really is very important to the FIA (ie the office of FIA President is too powerful), which is a sad position for the organisation to be in; (2) It is possible that evidence of Nazi overtones exists.

    You’ve given no arguments for suggesting that I’m wrong about (1). Regarding (2), for you the fact that NotW haven’t shown any real evidence of Nazi overtones is itself evidence that they don’t have any. I think it’s possible that they do have evidence which they are withholding until nearer the Extraordinary Meeting. This is how tabloids work. Note that I am not saying ‘certain’ or even ‘probable’; merely ‘possible’.

    Meanwhile Max’s denial is either true or false. If false, he was involved in a Nazi-themed session. In this case, public knowledge of his acts would not only result in a humilating exit from his FIA role, but also in widespread public revulsion. In order to avoid this, he would have no choice but to deny the facts, and then to try to cast as much doubt on the facts as possible so that they could not be proven conclusively. Whether innocent or guilty of Nazi fantasies, any human being who wants to avoid disgrace would probably react in the way Max is reacting now. Therefore, based on Max’s current behaviour, I cannot conclude whether he is innocent or guilty of Nazi- fantasising (which I realise would not be a crime, but I do feel would be enough to be removed from office for).

    I may well be missing something huge, and I may well be naive and wrong without realising it. If this is so, I would honestly appreciate being shown the light, Green Flag, instead of being on the receiving end of comments such as your previous one. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But instead of hysterically accusing me of being wrong, you’d be more likely to get me to agree with you if you put forward a convincing and enlightening argument which I may have missed.

  52. Thanks GF. It has been decades since I was called naive.

    As I said in my previous post I look forward to you presenting any evidence or facts to back up your position. This situation reminds me of numerous online discussions in the aftermath of Schumacher parking on the racing line at Monaco. Those of us who thought he was guilty were discussing when he braked, when he came off the brakes, steering inputs while the Scumi fans in unison recited “but Michael wouldn’t do that”. 4 legs good, 2 legs bad. No thought, no consideration simply reciting their mantra.

    If I was running the NOTW right now and I had Nazi evidence I wouldn’t publish it. I would wait until I got to court so that it would have more impact on the jury. Of course in the pice of video that has been released there is someone wearing a garment very similar to that worn by concentration camp prisoners. That may be enough to at least infer Nazi symbolism.

    If Max has actually issued a suit against NOTW the matter will be sub judice and they will not be allowed to publish.

    Personally I think Max should have been removed from office years ago for incompetence. The world sportscar championship doesn’t exist. The world rally championship has gone from ten to three works teams under his tenure. F1 grids are shrinking while he has screwed up the points system, instituted tactical chess in place of racing and demostrated bias in favour of Ferrari and blatant hatred of Ron Dennis. We have the half baked introduction of KERS next season which is his great new initiative. McLaren introduced braking energy recovery about 5 years ago and Max banned it so his lauding of KERS seems fake to me. He doesn’t believe what he is saying otherwise he would not have imposed limits on ots efficiency. It is simply the politically expedient thing to say. The man is not fit to be president.

    He has put in place procedures that make it damn near impossible for any one to challenge for the presidency and has wiped FISA out of existence so that no-one can build a power base to challenge him. He has behaved like a dictator in a banana republic.

    Green Flag says that in company with others I am totally wrong about the Mosley saga. TOTALLY WRONG. So I must be wrong when I said there was absolutely no need to re-negotiate a 100 year contract after a few years. I must be wrong when I said that Max was not the only person capable of negotiating the contract and that he had disqualified himself from negotiating the original contract. etc etc

    I have no doubt Green Flag will come back with more hot air and no factual evidence on any of the points he has made and no contradicting evidence of any of the points made by myself or others. Simply a variation on the traditional 4 legs good 2 legs bad theme. Max good everybody else on the face of the planet wrong, self interested, gullible, naive etc etc. Prove me wrong and explain your point rather than just throwing around insults and hoping that anyone is naive or gullible enough to believe them.

  53. Fireblade – I agree, all the time everyone is asking ‘is there and Nazi element to the story’ and ‘is Mad Max really suitable’, they are missing the point.
    The questions are – who is behind the whole story? And for what reason? And why at this very specific timing?
    I think Max will be able to put up a very strong defence in court,and he will be very convincing at the FIA meeting (which he called, remember?, Mad or not.
    It will have to be an equally strong, if not stronger person/consortium which will force his resignation, and if it isn’t Bernie/Flavio/Jean Todt/Mallya, who is it? Or do they not want his resignation after all – just his agreement to a little power sharing? And if it is them, won’t the other F1 team owners, let alone the other sports which the FIA pretends to run, suffer as a consequence?

  54. The big touring clubs would appear to be our best hope for a group to oust Max. Unlike the team bosses, they have significant power in the FIA election and removal processes – and finally they have the desire to act.

  55. Bernie Ecclestone has refuted Mosley’s claims in a letter of his own.

    He said:

    The CRH does not wish to have control over the Formula One regulations…. The FIA should be solely responsible for policing and enforcing the Formula One regulations fairly, transparently and without bias.

  56. I don’t know if they have some clever strategy worked out or whether Max has just been sacrificed at the altar of Bernie’s bank balance.

  57. Hello dude , good article and I truly do appreciate mistress and power of dominion thank you and post more!

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