Comments on: 2008 Turkish Grand Prix notes

By: Number 38

Number 38 — Mon, 19 May 2008 14:24:48 +0000

There are other views on EVERY maneouver ….. one might suggest Massa let Hamilton pass as by then Ferrari knew Hammy was on a three stop plan, wasting time and fuel trying to block him would have been counter-productive.
It was more important for Massa to stay on HIS plan than alter it to fight Hamilton. These chats are always fun but so many “IFs”; if Kova, if Kimi, if Massa had spun out…..if Hamilton had the pole. The truth is F1 is in the doldrums right now, all too often the race is won on Saturday in Q3. Robert McKay (#3 above) summed it up:
“then that really is quite a horrific indictment on the sport.” His remark was aimed at passing but applies to Q3 also. F1 in general has evolved into this state, it’s probably going to take a MAJOR change to restore real racing to the event.

By: Keith Collantine

Keith Collantine — Mon, 19 May 2008 08:10:42 +0000

Oliver – I’m sure it does, but I don’t think that changes my point. Massa, Kovalainen and Raikkonen all did a much better job by getting closer to their race pace in Q3 than Hamilton did.

By: Oliver

Oliver — Mon, 19 May 2008 07:20:46 +0000

But Keith, didn’t Mclaren come out to say, they were forced to make camber and tyre pressure changes to the car in order that there is a guarantee it runs safely? Wont that have an effect on the handling of the car especially during qualifying?

By: Daniel

Daniel — Sun, 18 May 2008 20:09:13 +0000

Oh, and I presume he’s not counting overtaking just after the start until the first corner…

By: Daniel

Daniel — Sun, 18 May 2008 20:07:16 +0000

And, like Keith pointed out, that pass only happened because Hamilton was one second per lap faster than Massa at the time, and the move didn’t decide the winner…

Still, It’s been almost three years since an overtaking in a dry race decided the winner!

By: Pete Walker

Pete Walker — Sun, 18 May 2008 19:09:52 +0000

They’re talking about passes for the lead during dry races, Sush.

I’m with Robert McKay on this one. I knew the situation was bad but to read its been two and a half years is shocking. Fingers crossed the 09 tech regs work the magic we’re hoping for.

By: Sush

Sush — Sun, 18 May 2008 18:05:49 +0000

Cheers Daniel, sorry guys! i’ll pay better attention next time.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Sun, 18 May 2008 17:33:47 +0000

Sush: he meant a pass for the lead in a dry race, which was not the case of Nurburgring

By: Evenstar Saima

Evenstar Saima — Sun, 18 May 2008 17:33:03 +0000

The last pass for the lead before was during last year’s grand prix at the Nurburgring, Alonso (McLaren) overtook Massa (Ferrari) to take the win. Who can forget that little argument they had behind the podium LOL

By: Sush

Sush — Sun, 18 May 2008 17:00:56 +0000

pass for lead?, 2007 Nurburgring …. Alonso against Massa, 5 or 6 laps before finish.

By: John Beamer

John Beamer — Sun, 18 May 2008 04:05:08 +0000

William — try 0.1s per lap

By: the limit

the limit — Sun, 18 May 2008 02:14:13 +0000

Great point about the lack of overtaking Keith. The move Lewis made on Massa was enjoyable, but Raikkonen’s on Fisichella was really memorable.
Another thing of note is that Suzuka and Turkey are two circuits where there are good overtaking opportunites. Looking back on that 2005 race, didn’t Fernando nail Michael Schumacher through 130R? If I am not mistaken, there was quite abit of overtaking that day, but Kimi’s move on the last lap was awesome.
Back to the point of Ron Dennis suggesting that BMW Sauber won’t be able to keep pace with the top two, that is very rich coming from a man who’s team isn’t exactly dominant.
Things havn’t really clicked for McLaren so far this year. A grid penalty for both cars in Sepang, a front wheel failure for Kovalainen, two errors from Hamilton in Bahrain, and then the ‘three stop’ scenario in Turkey.
However you slice it, a team doesn’t win championships in that manner, its all about getting steady, consistent results every race. BMW Sauber may well have ’struck out’ in Turkey, but their previous race weekends were very fruitfull indeed, far more so than McLaren.
Ron Dennis should concentrate on his own teams problems, and rectify them by getting maximum points at Monaco next weekend.
On the subject of Piquet Jnr, what can one say? Can you judge the boy after just five Grands Prix? The answer is no, and consider his team mate.
I hope he can improve, and he needs to do it in the next few races if he really stands a chance of keeping that drive at Renault.
Onto Hamilton’s qualifying performance, I would think that we all agree that Lewis has plenty of room to improve. He is not superhuman, he is not perfect, he is still in the process of mastering the fine art of car setup, balance, tyre choice, everything.
What I will always remember about the greats of this sport is their qualifying performances, and how well they all managed their tyres whilst still setting blistering lap times.
In another five years, we will have ample opportunity to judge accurately how far Lewis has progressed. Now is too soon.
One final note, very impressed by Kovalainen’s qualifying in Turkey. Damn, for a country with such a small population, Finland really does produce some class racing car drivers!!

By: Ago

Ago — Sat, 17 May 2008 21:38:51 +0000

thanks for these very interesting notes but it looks to me like you are missing one major fact that might have changed the result of the race: the incident between Kimi and Heikki that left the first with a damaged front wing, the second with a puncture.
With a 2 pit stops strategy and a bit more fuel than Massa Heikki might well have won the GP. And without a damaged front wing Kimi might have had a different race…
Also with harder tyres (est’d +0.3s on a fast lap) and even with 10kg less fuel than Massa it is less than obvious that Lewis could have won the pole… on top of that Heikki was very fast too…

By: William Wilgus

William Wilgus — Sat, 17 May 2008 20:08:47 +0000

I can’t agree on Hamilton:

McLaren supposedly—before the race—calculated the difference between the two and three stop strategies as 5 seconds. That means he would have had to make up five seconds on the track, which he clearly didn’t as he never matched Massa’s pace despite being lighter throughout. Someone reported a lap’s worth of fuel as being worth 0.01 seconds per lap. So even if Hamilton had been on a two-stop, he wouldn’t have won.

By: Robert McKay

Robert McKay — Sat, 17 May 2008 19:05:41 +0000

“Lewis Hamilton’s pass on Felipe Massa was the first pass for the lead in a dry Grand Prix since – I think – Kimi Raikkonen on Giancarlo Fisichella at Suzuka in 2005″

If that really is true, and I suspect it may well be (there’s certainly not a multitude of passes that you’ve missed) then that really is quite a horrific indictment on the sport. I already knew that it was the case that passes for the lead had become rare, but to put it in actual timescales like that is a shocker.

By: Vertigo

Vertigo — Sat, 17 May 2008 17:47:52 +0000

Judging on recent performances in GP2 and GP2 Asia, surely Romain Grosjean would be a better driver in the second Renault than Piquet, who has shown absolutely no promise this year.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Sat, 17 May 2008 17:21:23 +0000

Good point on Hamilton.
It got me thinking that, while many people are saying the 2008 Turkish Grand Prix was Hamilton’s best F1 race to date, it can only be right if we are talking strictly about the race itself… otherwise, we can’t say this was Hamilton’s best Grand Prix to date, as he threw away a possible win by missing the pole position…