Comments on: How do the new Alonso-Ferrari rumours affect the 2009 F1 driver market? http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/ F1 Fanatic - The Formula 1 Blog with F1 news, pictures, video, comment and analysis Sun, 21 Mar 2010 18:50:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: DGhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168456 DG Wed, 28 May 2008 13:42:53 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168456 @Journeyer - I think that makes sense, Alonso and Ferrari waiting to see what Kimi does, and the performance of the new engines before committing themselves. On the other hand, since Schuey is still on their books, are Ferrari collecting World Champion Test Drivers? @Diacho - OK, so Kimi has been out-qualified and out raced by Massa, but that doesn't mean he hasn't been pushing! So he's gone off the boil recently, and you really have to ask why, since he is such a good driver! Perhaps he is waiting on a decision himself? I think that unless Bourdais scores some points this year he will be heading back to the IRL. Overall, I think the teams are making a big mistake in not 'maturing' a batch of new talent in a similar way to McLaren, and I was surprised that Ferrari did not suddenly produce a couple of Italian/German 'Wunderkind' this year. Are they waiting for Schuey 3? Does anybody know if there is a Ferrari or Alfa Romeo racing school? I think there ought to be one. Generally the current 'young' drivers are not being allowed to race properly, and since there is no 'Rookie' Championship, the teams have no incentive to push them and only use them as distinctly 'No2' and 'No3' drivers. How are they to going learn the skills required to be Champions? @Journeyer – I think that makes sense, Alonso and Ferrari waiting to see what Kimi does, and the performance of the new engines before committing themselves. On the other hand, since Schuey is still on their books, are Ferrari collecting World Champion Test Drivers?
@Diacho – OK, so Kimi has been out-qualified and out raced by Massa, but that doesn’t mean he hasn’t been pushing! So he’s gone off the boil recently, and you really have to ask why, since he is such a good driver!
Perhaps he is waiting on a decision himself?
I think that unless Bourdais scores some points this year he will be heading back to the IRL.
Overall, I think the teams are making a big mistake in not ‘maturing’ a batch of new talent in a similar way to McLaren, and I was surprised that Ferrari did not suddenly produce a couple of Italian/German ‘Wunderkind’ this year. Are they waiting for Schuey 3? Does anybody know if there is a Ferrari or Alfa Romeo racing school? I think there ought to be one.
Generally the current ‘young’ drivers are not being allowed to race properly, and since there is no ‘Rookie’ Championship, the teams have no incentive to push them and only use them as distinctly ‘No2′ and ‘No3′ drivers. How are they to going learn the skills required to be Champions?

]]> By: Gmanhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168400 Gman Wed, 28 May 2008 03:42:42 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168400 In terms of Bourdais, his future with the outfit curently known as Toro Rosso must be linked to whatever will happen with the team after this season. Last I heard, the team was up for sale and looking for interested parties, and the ban on customer cars puts it's very future into some uncertainty. If anyone has new insight on this, please pass it along, but any new change in ownership could have consequences for any of the drivers currently with the team.I think Bourdais is a talented driver who can bring a great deal to any team- I would think he would be in demand by many teams if suddenly available, but with many teams developing their owne talent, even a quality driver may face uncertain times on the F1 market. In terms of Bourdais, his future with the outfit curently known as Toro Rosso must be linked to whatever will happen with the team after this season. Last I heard, the team was up for sale and looking for interested parties, and the ban on customer cars puts it’s very future into some uncertainty. If anyone has new insight on this, please pass it along, but any new change in ownership could have consequences for any of the drivers currently with the team.

I think Bourdais is a talented driver who can bring a great deal to any team- I would think he would be in demand by many teams if suddenly available, but with many teams developing their owne talent, even a quality driver may face uncertain times on the F1 market.

]]> By: Journeyerhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168399 Journeyer Wed, 28 May 2008 03:39:30 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168399 OK, time to start catching up on commenting. :)Bourdais will do well at Montreal, but a Top 10? That depends on a bit of luck. But I think he can easily finish 12th or 13th.Now, the big one: has Alonso signed for Ferrari? I think he did sign something, but he probably didn't sign a contract. For that to happen, Ferrari would've been sure someone was out by 2010. Massa's contract is until the end of 2010, so unless he does dismally within the next few races (which I doubt), he'll stay. As for Kimi, while it is known he won't stay as long as Schumi in F1, I think a retirement decision from him would be much more spur-of-the-moment and not planned 2 years ahead.So what DID Alonso sign? He probably signed a document signifying his intention to drive for Ferrari, such that, IF there IS a vacant seat there in 2010, he gets it. But there are no guarantees there will be one.I hope that makes sense. OK, time to start catching up on commenting. :)

Bourdais will do well at Montreal, but a Top 10? That depends on a bit of luck. But I think he can easily finish 12th or 13th.

Now, the big one: has Alonso signed for Ferrari? I think he did sign something, but he probably didn’t sign a contract. For that to happen, Ferrari would’ve been sure someone was out by 2010. Massa’s contract is until the end of 2010, so unless he does dismally within the next few races (which I doubt), he’ll stay. As for Kimi, while it is known he won’t stay as long as Schumi in F1, I think a retirement decision from him would be much more spur-of-the-moment and not planned 2 years ahead.

So what DID Alonso sign? He probably signed a document signifying his intention to drive for Ferrari, such that, IF there IS a vacant seat there in 2010, he gets it. But there are no guarantees there will be one.

I hope that makes sense.

]]> By: Steve Khttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168394 Steve K Wed, 28 May 2008 02:35:02 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168394 Also, Bourdais has won at Montreal before, can he get a top 10 next weekend? Also, Bourdais has won at Montreal before, can he get a top 10 next weekend?

]]> By: Steve Khttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168393 Steve K Wed, 28 May 2008 02:33:49 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168393 Does anyone see Bourdais staying with Toro Rosso another year? He is inexperienced at F1 to be great now, but give him a year and a competitive car and he could score points on a regular basis. He was too good in Champ Car to be too patient. Back to the USA for the IRL or a real F1 ride. Renault is an interesting possibility. What do you all think? Does anyone see Bourdais staying with Toro Rosso another year? He is inexperienced at F1 to be great now, but give him a year and a competitive car and he could score points on a regular basis. He was too good in Champ Car to be too patient. Back to the USA for the IRL or a real F1 ride. Renault is an interesting possibility. What do you all think?

]]> By: Pink Perilhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168373 Pink Peril Tue, 27 May 2008 23:26:44 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168373 I like the Alonso to BMW rumour a lot more than the Alonso to Ferrari one.Seems like a better fit to me - I can see Alonso, Kubica and Theissen all working well together. Can't see that same harmony from an Alonso, Massa and Domenicali/de Montezemolo team. And I do think it will be Kimi leaving rather than Felipe - he has never made any secret of the fact that he is not in F1 for the long haul. I like the Alonso to BMW rumour a lot more than the Alonso to Ferrari one.

Seems like a better fit to me – I can see Alonso, Kubica and Theissen all working well together. Can’t see that same harmony from an Alonso, Massa and Domenicali/de Montezemolo team. And I do think it will be Kimi leaving rather than Felipe – he has never made any secret of the fact that he is not in F1 for the long haul.

]]> By: theRoswellitehttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168362 theRoswellite Tue, 27 May 2008 21:34:29 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168362 I think I saw some evidence of Alonso's move to Ferrari, in a very reliable location............Massa's eyes.@ milos: He would commit himself this far ahead because if he waits to see how competitive the car is......it will have another driver in it.@ William: Anyone looking at the established "systems" producing the cars will see that, at present and for the near future, there are only two CONSISTENT winners....the F boys and the M boys. Alonso sees that. He sees it at every race. It would be smart for him to sign something........as soon as he can. He is less of a dependable quantity considering his production vis a vis Hamilton. But, Ferrari know talent. Look at how long they have hung on to Massa, and look how he is performing now. It was a very smart decision by them and it is paying off.Just like the decision by Dennis to "grow" a driver in-house. In retrospect the Hamilton connection may be viewed as the smartest move of Ron's entire career (remembering that it took a lot of savvy to sign Senna, but certainly no smarts were required to figure that one out, ditto for Prost).It certainly looks like you need to culture them young, ask Flavio, and sign them early. I think I saw some evidence of Alonso’s move to Ferrari, in a very reliable location…………Massa’s eyes.

@ milos: He would commit himself this far ahead because if he waits to see how competitive the car is……it will have another driver in it.

@ William: Anyone looking at the established “systems” producing the cars will see that, at present and for the near future, there are only two CONSISTENT winners….the F boys and the M boys. Alonso sees that. He sees it at every race. It would be smart for him to sign something……..as soon as he can. He is less of a dependable quantity considering his production vis a vis Hamilton. But, Ferrari know talent. Look at how long they have hung on to Massa, and look how he is performing now. It was a very smart decision by them and it is paying off.

Just like the decision by Dennis to “grow” a driver in-house. In retrospect the Hamilton connection may be viewed as the smartest move of Ron’s entire career (remembering that it took a lot of savvy to sign Senna, but certainly no smarts were required to figure that one out, ditto for Prost).

It certainly looks like you need to culture them young, ask Flavio, and sign them early.

]]> By: Number 38http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168360 Number 38 Tue, 27 May 2008 21:12:04 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168360 Massa fan club here ...... sorry I'm late Keith. It's the first cutting here on the plantation, long hours on the tractor. Alonso to Ferrari? It's fun to read all the authorities but the bottom line, it's ALL speculation. I'm more interested in replacing trainees like Piquet, Glock, Sutil, Vettel, Nagajima with more experienced drivers like Klien, Davidson, Sato, Luizzi, De La Rosa, even Montagny. F1 is WASTING talent while we suffer with a flood of un-qualified rookies. Massa fan club here …… sorry I’m late Keith. It’s the first cutting here on the plantation, long hours on the tractor. Alonso to Ferrari? It’s fun to read all the authorities but the bottom line, it’s ALL speculation.
I’m more interested in replacing trainees like Piquet, Glock, Sutil, Vettel, Nagajima with more experienced drivers like Klien, Davidson, Sato, Luizzi, De La Rosa, even Montagny. F1 is WASTING talent while we suffer with a flood of un-qualified rookies.

]]> By: freconhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168352 frecon Tue, 27 May 2008 21:02:46 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168352 Gman: maybe you are right and Mclaren 2007 was Alonso's fault. But i trully think Dennis as manager was the only one who doesn't suceed managing a team, and the only responsible of the whole thing. Any other manager would have right now a driver and car championship.I think the only problem having Alonso and Kubica together would be have Dennis as manager of the team. ;) Gman: maybe you are right and Mclaren 2007 was Alonso’s fault. But i trully think Dennis as manager was the only one who doesn’t suceed managing a team, and the only responsible of the whole thing. Any other manager would have right now a driver and car championship.

I think the only problem having Alonso and Kubica together would be have Dennis as manager of the team. ;)

]]> By: Architrionhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168347 Architrion Tue, 27 May 2008 20:29:19 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168347 Kubica and Fernando are true friends, and I can't find any reason why they could not race together for a well managed team.On the other side, I think that Bernie is a wise guy, who certainly know Internet and understand all the attention that the battle Hamilton - Alonso brings to his business. We all were aware of that after the Bahrain grand prix (Keith, How many answers did you have to the post of that race?, 150 +/-?). How much business is on the battle McLaren_Hamilton vs Ferrari_Alonso is something that my poor brain fails to understand. Kubica and Fernando are true friends, and I can’t find any reason why they could not race together for a well managed team.

On the other side, I think that Bernie is a wise guy, who certainly know Internet and understand all the attention that the battle Hamilton – Alonso brings to his business. We all were aware of that after the Bahrain grand prix (Keith, How many answers did you have to the post of that race?, 150 +/-?). How much business is on the battle McLaren_Hamilton vs Ferrari_Alonso is something that my poor brain fails to understand.

]]> By: Eunahttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168335 Euna Tue, 27 May 2008 18:56:18 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168335 may i correct you a little bit Diacho, Massa did in fact outqualify Räikkönen 5 times this year, not 4-2.As for the rumour, i'm with milos, i don't see why Alonso should sign for Ferrari in view of the massive rule change, who knows what will happen in the coming years.Plus if they already sign him, Räikkönen would have decided to retire some months ago (and I don't think so)Another plus, while Alonso is a good driver, there're many good driver out there too and some might improve significantly by 2010, why should they sign him so early. The relationship between him and Massa maybe in doubt too, who knows. may i correct you a little bit Diacho, Massa did in fact outqualify Räikkönen 5 times this year, not 4-2.

As for the rumour, i’m with milos, i don’t see why Alonso should sign for Ferrari in view of the massive rule change, who knows what will happen in the coming years.

Plus if they already sign him, Räikkönen would have decided to retire some months ago (and I don’t think so)

Another plus, while Alonso is a good driver, there’re many good driver out there too and some might improve significantly by 2010, why should they sign him so early. The relationship between him and Massa maybe in doubt too, who knows.

]]> By: Gmanhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168333 Gman Tue, 27 May 2008 18:45:43 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168333 Outstanding picture of the potential driver market for 2009 Keith- it seems as though there are a limitless number of outcomes here. I think many of us assume that Kimi will leave F1 after his current deal is up, but what if he wants to stay? He's said many times that he enjoys life at Ferrari, so perhaps would he stick around a bit longer? DG, I love the concept of Kimi in NASCAR- his laid-back style would suit him perfectly in the series. It's a much different culture than F1, so I don't know if he'd be open to it, but it dose make for interesting thought!Kudos to Ninguen for mentioning Sato and Davidson- I would think these guys will latch onto some team as at least a tester next season. As for Alonso, if Renault dose improve their form, I can see him sticking around. After all, with Kubica as an emerging title contender, would Dr. Mario really want a rerun of McLaren 2007 on his hands? Outstanding picture of the potential driver market for 2009 Keith- it seems as though there are a limitless number of outcomes here. I think many of us assume that Kimi will leave F1 after his current deal is up, but what if he wants to stay? He’s said many times that he enjoys life at Ferrari, so perhaps would he stick around a bit longer? DG, I love the concept of Kimi in NASCAR- his laid-back style would suit him perfectly in the series. It’s a much different culture than F1, so I don’t know if he’d be open to it, but it dose make for interesting thought!

Kudos to Ninguen for mentioning Sato and Davidson- I would think these guys will latch onto some team as at least a tester next season. As for Alonso, if Renault dose improve their form, I can see him sticking around. After all, with Kubica as an emerging title contender, would Dr. Mario really want a rerun of McLaren 2007 on his hands?

]]> By: Diachohttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168282 Diacho Tue, 27 May 2008 14:44:47 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168282 DG - Kimi does not take every opportunity he has to outqualify Massa. On the contrary, it's 4-2 to Massa this year, him being the only one with 3 PP so far. Massa as also outdriven Kimi in 3 of the last 4 races. As far as Ferrari go (and I'm a McLaren fan), they have a very, very good line-up. If you think about it, no other team has 2 drivers completely capable of winning the WDC. Why they would choose to disrupt that is beyond me. DG – Kimi does not take every opportunity he has to outqualify Massa. On the contrary, it’s 4-2 to Massa this year, him being the only one with 3 PP so far. Massa as also outdriven Kimi in 3 of the last 4 races. As far as Ferrari go (and I’m a McLaren fan), they have a very, very good line-up. If you think about it, no other team has 2 drivers completely capable of winning the WDC. Why they would choose to disrupt that is beyond me.

]]> By: miloshttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168276 milos Tue, 27 May 2008 14:22:49 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168276 My question is, why would someone want to commit himself to a team from 2010 onwards in a situation where we will have new rules and new cars from 2009 and nobody can really tell what teams will be on top next year ?Sure Ferrari is probably decent bet but why not wait for 2009 season and see ? My question is, why would someone want to commit himself to a team from 2010 onwards in a situation where we will have new rules and new cars from 2009 and nobody can really tell what teams will be on top next year ?

Sure Ferrari is probably decent bet but why not wait for 2009 season and see ?

]]> By: Keith Collantinehttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168267 Keith Collantine Tue, 27 May 2008 14:09:07 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168267 I see your point Williams but Alonso signed for McLaren for 2007 in 2005, and Raikkonen is believed to have done likewise for Ferrari. As Joe Saward pointed out on Grandprix.com, the big driver moves tend to be arranged a year or more in advance. I see your point Williams but Alonso signed for McLaren for 2007 in 2005, and Raikkonen is believed to have done likewise for Ferrari. As Joe Saward pointed out on Grandprix.com, the big driver moves tend to be arranged a year or more in advance.

]]> By: William Wilgushttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168260 William Wilgus Tue, 27 May 2008 14:03:57 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168260 In can't believe Alonso to Ferrari is a done deal for one reason: why would either party commit to the other two years in advance knowing that the abilities of the other might decrease in the interim? No, all I can believe is that they might have an agreement of `first refusal'. In can’t believe Alonso to Ferrari is a done deal for one reason: why would either party commit to the other two years in advance knowing that the abilities of the other might decrease in the interim? No, all I can believe is that they might have an agreement of `first refusal’.

]]> By: Keith Collantinehttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168259 Keith Collantine Tue, 27 May 2008 14:01:01 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168259 You're certainly not the only Massa fan - I'm sure Number 38 will be along in a bit to give me chapter on verse on why I under-rate him... You’re certainly not the only Massa fan – I’m sure Number 38 will be along in a bit to give me chapter on verse on why I under-rate him…

]]> By: Fernandohttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168258 Fernando Tue, 27 May 2008 13:57:08 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168258 I hate Alonso I think he's way too arrogant and I really don't think he would be a good fit at the Scuderia. I am a big Massa fan (yes we exist), and I think Alonso at Ferrari would jeopardize the team, since he is not a team player unlike Massa. Let him go to whatever team will have their heads so far up his ass, like Renault does. I understand he's a good track driver and great technical driver. But his personality is crap and his sportsmanship is also flaky. I hate Alonso I think he’s way too arrogant and I really don’t think he would be a good fit at the Scuderia. I am a big Massa fan (yes we exist), and I think Alonso at Ferrari would jeopardize the team, since he is not a team player unlike Massa. Let him go to whatever team will have their heads so far up his ass, like Renault does. I understand he’s a good track driver and great technical driver. But his personality is crap and his sportsmanship is also flaky.

]]> By: DGhttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168245 DG Tue, 27 May 2008 12:11:26 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168245 Keith - what you say must only be true up to the point where Alonso started accusing McLaren of backing Hamilton more than him (whether that was true or not). As for where the rumours come from, remember that during 'Stepneygate' Jean Todt accused Alonso of all sorts of things, but later in the season, the head of Ferrari said that Alonso was a wonderful driver! I took that as a very pointed message at the time.... Keith – what you say must only be true up to the point where Alonso started accusing McLaren of backing Hamilton more than him (whether that was true or not).
As for where the rumours come from, remember that during ‘Stepneygate’ Jean Todt accused Alonso of all sorts of things, but later in the season, the head of Ferrari said that Alonso was a wonderful driver!
I took that as a very pointed message at the time….

]]> By: Keith Collantinehttp://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/27/how-do-the-new-alonso-ferrari-rumours-affect-the-2009-f1-driver-market/comment-page-1/#comment-168238 Keith Collantine Tue, 27 May 2008 11:50:11 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6866#comment-168238 Ninguen - yep, that's what I heard :-) Ninguen – yep, that’s what I heard :-)

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