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	<title>Comments on: Battle lines are drawn on Mosley vote</title>
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	<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/</link>
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		<title>By: Ago</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168994</link>
		<dc:creator>Ago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:53:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168994</guid>
		<description>Agree I was a bit quick on my explanations as this is a F1 blog and nothing else. On top of that I am not mixed up, I am foreign and english is not my language ;-)
The point I was trying to make is the following:

(1) Our democraties are based on free elections and the independance of 3 powers (apologise for choosing wrong words, I&#039;m french and not familiar &quot;technical&quot; vocabulary) Executive (&quot;the government&quot;) Legislative (&quot;the parliament&quot;) Justice (&quot;the courts&quot;) 
The law tells what &quot;can be done&quot; and how it can be done. The parliament makes the law, and the Justice applies it. 

The Law can be discussed, opposed, changed this is normal (and this is what Parliament is made for). 

The lawyers (advocates, judges, procecutors) make it happen... As such they must be independant and protected. Denying the law, pretenting it is corrupted was always the  &quot;excuse&quot; for extremists.... I agree it is far from being perfect, there are corrupted &quot;lawyers&quot; but until we find something better (
may be Rabi or Michael K have some good ideas they are prepared to share with us) we have to stick to this. 

FIA is an organisation with rules and elections. MM is the elected president, it is the responsabily of the General Assembly to decide what they want to do with him now. The FIA is a legal stucture obeying the laws it is fully entitled to made its own decisions.
We might agree or disagree with these decisions, but only members have the right to make decisions. Period.
Is is exactly like the government, you might approve or not a given decision but it the government is democratic you have to obey the decision... until you change the government, with a new election, in the hope it will be better. 

(2) What MM does in his &quot;bedroom&quot; is none of my business (providing nobody is hurt and no law is broken)

(3) the matter being now (widely) public there is even no possibility of blackmailing him ;-) the blackmailing would have been a very good reason to ask for his resignation as somebody threatened cannot do his job properly.

You can leave me a message (and anybody here can!) on my blog as I believe we are well beyond the limits of Keith&#039;s patience ;-). thanks again Keith!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree I was a bit quick on my explanations as this is a F1 blog and nothing else. On top of that I am not mixed up, I am foreign and english is not my language <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
The point I was trying to make is the following:</p>
<p>(1) Our democraties are based on free elections and the independance of 3 powers (apologise for choosing wrong words, I&#8217;m french and not familiar &#8220;technical&#8221; vocabulary) Executive (&#8220;the government&#8221;) Legislative (&#8220;the parliament&#8221;) Justice (&#8220;the courts&#8221;)<br />
The law tells what &#8220;can be done&#8221; and how it can be done. The parliament makes the law, and the Justice applies it. </p>
<p>The Law can be discussed, opposed, changed this is normal (and this is what Parliament is made for). </p>
<p>The lawyers (advocates, judges, procecutors) make it happen&#8230; As such they must be independant and protected. Denying the law, pretenting it is corrupted was always the  &#8220;excuse&#8221; for extremists&#8230;. I agree it is far from being perfect, there are corrupted &#8220;lawyers&#8221; but until we find something better (<br />
may be Rabi or Michael K have some good ideas they are prepared to share with us) we have to stick to this. </p>
<p>FIA is an organisation with rules and elections. MM is the elected president, it is the responsabily of the General Assembly to decide what they want to do with him now. The FIA is a legal stucture obeying the laws it is fully entitled to made its own decisions.<br />
We might agree or disagree with these decisions, but only members have the right to make decisions. Period.<br />
Is is exactly like the government, you might approve or not a given decision but it the government is democratic you have to obey the decision&#8230; until you change the government, with a new election, in the hope it will be better. </p>
<p>(2) What MM does in his &#8220;bedroom&#8221; is none of my business (providing nobody is hurt and no law is broken)</p>
<p>(3) the matter being now (widely) public there is even no possibility of blackmailing him <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  the blackmailing would have been a very good reason to ask for his resignation as somebody threatened cannot do his job properly.</p>
<p>You can leave me a message (and anybody here can!) on my blog as I believe we are well beyond the limits of Keith&#8217;s patience <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> . thanks again Keith!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Counsell</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168958</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Counsell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 03:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168958</guid>
		<description>The Max Mosely sex scandal case is interesting regarding perceptions and laws regarding prostitution, alternative sexual practises, freedom of speech in the media, privacy rights, public relations etc.

The actual voting is by comparison quite uninteresting and I agree with &#039;alan&#039; that this is probably a good tactic, but I doubt everyone is coordinated well enough to pull it off that effectively.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Max Mosely sex scandal case is interesting regarding perceptions and laws regarding prostitution, alternative sexual practises, freedom of speech in the media, privacy rights, public relations etc.</p>
<p>The actual voting is by comparison quite uninteresting and I agree with &#8216;alan&#8217; that this is probably a good tactic, but I doubt everyone is coordinated well enough to pull it off that effectively.</p>
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		<title>By: Santiago</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168933</link>
		<dc:creator>Santiago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 21:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168933</guid>
		<description>Keith what is going to happen if MM does not step out?

So far, already five years since Bush invaded Irak. What happend?. So far, to us nothing, more than we have started to pay the war with the increments of goods, petrol, mortgages, price of money and so on. Terrorism strikes everywhere but we all get up in the mornings and carry on with our lives. When you watch TV everyday is difficult not to get depressed, my way is to zap to the sports channels after the news and enjoy with Nadal, Rossi-Pedrosa-Lorenzo trio, F1 races, NBA, some football matches and so on. I also enjoy snooker, can you believe it? 

MM does not take any part on conversations within my friends, and I do not hear anything about him except in the media. I cannot see how this little matter in this world can make any impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith what is going to happen if MM does not step out?</p>
<p>So far, already five years since Bush invaded Irak. What happend?. So far, to us nothing, more than we have started to pay the war with the increments of goods, petrol, mortgages, price of money and so on. Terrorism strikes everywhere but we all get up in the mornings and carry on with our lives. When you watch TV everyday is difficult not to get depressed, my way is to zap to the sports channels after the news and enjoy with Nadal, Rossi-Pedrosa-Lorenzo trio, F1 races, NBA, some football matches and so on. I also enjoy snooker, can you believe it? </p>
<p>MM does not take any part on conversations within my friends, and I do not hear anything about him except in the media. I cannot see how this little matter in this world can make any impact.</p>
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		<title>By: Santiago</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168932</link>
		<dc:creator>Santiago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 21:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168932</guid>
		<description>Ago. 

&quot;Democracy, our freedom is based upon Law and lawyers. Showing no respect for them is insulting. You are the procecutor and the judge that is not good justice is it?&quot;

You sound like a lawyer. Are you? As I agree with many of your points of view, I also think you are a little mixed up with some concepts.

1:Democracy. It is  political system. It is based in RULES agreed by the majority, and given to many powers to rule. Lawyers, prosecuters and judges are a part but not all of them. Democracy do not mean Justice. Could be more or less just than others political systems, but not Justice.
2:Freedom. Is not democracy, if fact some people think that Democracy is the dictatorship of the Law. You are more o less free in our &quot;Democracy, our freedom&quot; but you are not completely free. In fact without money you are absolutely NOT FREE.
3:If I do not respect to Bush, Putin, Blair, Aznar, Chirac, Berlusconi.......... am I insulting because they all were &quot;legitimately elected&quot;? if not, why should I respect lawyers, judges, prosecutors instead? I only accept them as needed elements to put a bit of light whithin our complicated political system, and thats all. 
4:Justice. &quot;The quality of being just or fair&quot; Do not missunderstand with 
&quot;justice, (JUDICATURE). the administration of law; the act of determining rights and assigning rewards or punishments;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ago. </p>
<p>&#8220;Democracy, our freedom is based upon Law and lawyers. Showing no respect for them is insulting. You are the procecutor and the judge that is not good justice is it?&#8221;</p>
<p>You sound like a lawyer. Are you? As I agree with many of your points of view, I also think you are a little mixed up with some concepts.</p>
<p>1:Democracy. It is  political system. It is based in RULES agreed by the majority, and given to many powers to rule. Lawyers, prosecuters and judges are a part but not all of them. Democracy do not mean Justice. Could be more or less just than others political systems, but not Justice.<br />
2:Freedom. Is not democracy, if fact some people think that Democracy is the dictatorship of the Law. You are more o less free in our &#8220;Democracy, our freedom&#8221; but you are not completely free. In fact without money you are absolutely NOT FREE.<br />
3:If I do not respect to Bush, Putin, Blair, Aznar, Chirac, Berlusconi&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. am I insulting because they all were &#8220;legitimately elected&#8221;? if not, why should I respect lawyers, judges, prosecutors instead? I only accept them as needed elements to put a bit of light whithin our complicated political system, and thats all.<br />
4:Justice. &#8220;The quality of being just or fair&#8221; Do not missunderstand with<br />
&#8220;justice, (JUDICATURE). the administration of law; the act of determining rights and assigning rewards or punishments;</p>
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		<title>By: Ago</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168929</link>
		<dc:creator>Ago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 20:35:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168929</guid>
		<description>Thanks Keith ;-)
Not to go on, but rather to help me to see things I can&#039;t see could you tell us a little bit more about the huge consequences. Seriously I don&#039;t see what can happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Keith <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Not to go on, but rather to help me to see things I can&#8217;t see could you tell us a little bit more about the huge consequences. Seriously I don&#8217;t see what can happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Collantine</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168872</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Collantine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168872</guid>
		<description>Ago - Sorry I got your point of view wrong on whether Mosley should step down. But I&#039;ve made my case that I think it&#039;s a story worth pursuing and that the coverage of it on this blog is proportional to the other coverage and I stick by it. There doesn&#039;t seem to be many other people complaining about it.

I doubt very much it will be the last article about the story on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ago &#8211; Sorry I got your point of view wrong on whether Mosley should step down. But I&#8217;ve made my case that I think it&#8217;s a story worth pursuing and that the coverage of it on this blog is proportional to the other coverage and I stick by it. There doesn&#8217;t seem to be many other people complaining about it.</p>
<p>I doubt very much it will be the last article about the story on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Ago</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-2/#comment-168869</link>
		<dc:creator>Ago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 14:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168869</guid>
		<description>Keith
(1) I never sais MM should stay, in fact I said the exact opposite (see http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/28/mosley-turned-down-compromise-deal-in-april/
comment #14 :
&quot;Now if you ask for my opinion I believe he should have left the FIA, but that is another story. I am not in favour of mob killing that is (even not) good for Iran and certainly not for Western Europe….&quot;

(2) tell me what the &quot;huge&quot; consequences could be. Give me just 3.

(3) Not to offend you but autosport did 64 out of how many exactly? And you did 18 out of....?

(4) My search on keywords shows that there are nuch more articles about Lewis Hamilton in Monaco, 9 times more in fact. And out of the 322,000 about Mosley 1/3 are from the UK... and obviously you guys (Brits) you do not represent 30% of the Internet, so you are over-represented in these numbers, showing obviously that this subject is more a concern for the UK than the rest of the world.... It is common practice for anti-democrats to say that justice is rotten...

@Michael K : Lawyers are not all honest and good, but people with your kind of theries (not necessarily you!) are rarely honest and good. 

@Schuma.... : My way of dealing with things I don&#039;t like is NOT to avoid them, but to answer them. We I read something I don&#039;t like I don&#039;t stop reading, I discuss and challenge people. Now you are free to do what you want but I&#039;m not prepared to ignore the things I don&#039;t like. 
Even more: when I read things I don&#039;t like in a place that I usually like (great place Keith! honest!) I react more because I care!
Thanks to let me expres my point of view ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keith<br />
(1) I never sais MM should stay, in fact I said the exact opposite (see <a href="http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/28/mosley-turned-down-compromise-deal-in-april/" rel="nofollow">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/28/mosley-turned-down-compromise-deal-in-april/</a><br />
comment #14 :<br />
&#8220;Now if you ask for my opinion I believe he should have left the FIA, but that is another story. I am not in favour of mob killing that is (even not) good for Iran and certainly not for Western Europe….&#8221;</p>
<p>(2) tell me what the &#8220;huge&#8221; consequences could be. Give me just 3.</p>
<p>(3) Not to offend you but autosport did 64 out of how many exactly? And you did 18 out of&#8230;.?</p>
<p>(4) My search on keywords shows that there are nuch more articles about Lewis Hamilton in Monaco, 9 times more in fact. And out of the 322,000 about Mosley 1/3 are from the UK&#8230; and obviously you guys (Brits) you do not represent 30% of the Internet, so you are over-represented in these numbers, showing obviously that this subject is more a concern for the UK than the rest of the world&#8230;. It is common practice for anti-democrats to say that justice is rotten&#8230;</p>
<p>@Michael K : Lawyers are not all honest and good, but people with your kind of theries (not necessarily you!) are rarely honest and good. </p>
<p>@Schuma&#8230;. : My way of dealing with things I don&#8217;t like is NOT to avoid them, but to answer them. We I read something I don&#8217;t like I don&#8217;t stop reading, I discuss and challenge people. Now you are free to do what you want but I&#8217;m not prepared to ignore the things I don&#8217;t like.<br />
Even more: when I read things I don&#8217;t like in a place that I usually like (great place Keith! honest!) I react more because I care!<br />
Thanks to let me expres my point of view <img src='http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Keith Collantine</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-168868</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Collantine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168868</guid>
		<description>Some &lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2008/05/voting-realitie.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;further reading for those wanting to understand the voting process&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some <a target="_blank" href="http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one/2008/05/voting-realitie.html" rel="nofollow">further reading for those wanting to understand the voting process</a></p>
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		<title>By: alan</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-168852</link>
		<dc:creator>alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 12:26:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168852</guid>
		<description>It is certainly boring - that is what they want(mosley that is) - if people get bored with an incident - then others can then quietly let the matter drop and sweep it under the carpet - the present and past governments have done this for eons - but could anyone meet this person and shake hands with him without thinking what those hands had been used for?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is certainly boring &#8211; that is what they want(mosley that is) &#8211; if people get bored with an incident &#8211; then others can then quietly let the matter drop and sweep it under the carpet &#8211; the present and past governments have done this for eons &#8211; but could anyone meet this person and shake hands with him without thinking what those hands had been used for?</p>
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		<title>By: sChUmAcHeRtHeGrEaTeStEvEr</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/05/29/battle-lines-are-drawn-on-mosley-vote/comment-page-1/#comment-168836</link>
		<dc:creator>sChUmAcHeRtHeGrEaTeStEvEr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 10:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=6893#comment-168836</guid>
		<description>ago- this is the biggest story in f1 right now, especially in between the grand prix&#039;s. any decent f1 site are covering it. if you dont want to read it, dont no one is forcing you are they</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ago- this is the biggest story in f1 right now, especially in between the grand prix&#8217;s. any decent f1 site are covering it. if you dont want to read it, dont no one is forcing you are they</p>
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