Comments on: New safety car rules for French GP

By: Nik

Nik — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:51:09 +0000

Pink Peril,

Some good points there, but I believe the following are unlikely:

- get rid of Max
Now that the FIA has voted in favor of him, and the teams seem to be settled after some sabre-rattling, we need to get used to the fact that he will be there and will probably remain a while longer.

- Better TV coverage negotiated. No ads. Prime time slots(where possible). Pre race & support categories included.
These guys spend a fortune on acquiring F1 television rights, and they need to make it back somehow. What you describe used to be available (and still is in some countries) but it costs anywhere from $10 to $30 per race. How the TV part works is mostly driven by audience and advertisers, not by the licensing contracts.

- option to view races/quali etc on the web
Again, this would come down to ITV – since when F1M did the broadcast deals they packaged web right in with that as well (a big mistake – but F1M don’t understand the web, a topic for another time)

- no more stupid regs like engine freeze
We have yet to see the impact of engine freeze, as it is supposed to reduce spending. With engines what they are, getting the last 1-2% of performance out of them was taking up 80% of engine budget – hence the freeze. You an get a lot more out of aero anyway (consider that the 1986 Lotus had 1,100hp and would lap Monaco 25 seconds slower than a 780hp 2004 Toyota)

- remove the Ferrari International Assistance members from the FIA
Ye thats a bit tough as well, since it is supposed to be a representative body

- add ‘protected’ status to some races ie Monaco, Montreal, Spa, Silverstone, Melbourne, Magny Cours etc so Bernie has to stop threatening them all the time?
Bernie threatening a circuit is usually a pretty good sign that he is either interested in buying it or has no intention of doing anything with it, but wants something changed. Bernie’s negotiating skills are almost entirely limited to reverse psychology, and we keep on falling for it!

- allow teams to experiment with alternative fuels etc
Its happen, albeit slowly. Also a bit harder because of the engine freeze. We also have KERS coming up

- if possible rescind on the 100 year deal with CVC and allow most of the revenue from races to remain with the teams, organisers, FIA. Anyone other than Bernie
I doubt it, CVC paid a lot for those right. The teams are getting a better deal atm with a 50% split, but other parts of the sports revenue (like trackside advertising) are Bernie domains and aren’t touched by Concorde.

- allow Michelin or other tyre suppliers back in
Possible, it seems they might not be interested in entering though, esp after Indy

By: the limit

the limit — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 03:03:48 +0000

Pink Peril.

Can you also have on your list the return of V10 engines, or even V12’s. There was no better sound to my ears than a Ferrari V12.
Give us that, and Max can stay, just so long as he ditches the gimp suit.

By: the limit

the limit — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:59:46 +0000

K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Stupid.

By: Barret B

Barret B — Fri, 13 Jun 2008 02:26:09 +0000

I thought F1 was trying to put more emphasis on the driver by eliminating electronic aids. I know this is for safety, but the teams can radio their drivers to tell them what they need to know. And why not adopt the yellow flashing tail lights from Indy? If the Indycar drivers can slow down from 225 mph while inches apart surely the F1 drivers can as well. Seems like an overly-complicated solution.

By: Kirk

Kirk — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 12:59:12 +0000

In an effort to uncomplicate matters, perhaps once a SC condition is declared, each driver has a time limit (say maximum of 3 seconds) to engage into SC mode. Each car to be monitored by an onboard computer for compliance.
The concept of brake lights is interesting,; why not have them deployed only in SC conditions.

By: DG

DG — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:21:45 +0000

@Chalky #37 – Yes, but that was the first time in about 3 races that Martin had been anywhere near Bernie. I was wondering if either FOM had said ‘no interviews until after the FIA vote’ or if ITV had been diplomatic for once (since they are never diplomatic with the teams)
I had the impression that Bernie hadnt been briefed about what had been done in turn 10, only that something had been done!
I still think that Bernie is waiting for the BDRC to give up fighting and sell Silverstone, to add it to his (or his wife’s) collection….

By: chunter

chunter — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:00:56 +0000

It’s a bit late of a reply, but I agree with the commenter that maybe it’s time to spell out exactly when a Safety Car ought to come out, because Sutil’s car came to a rest in a very vulnerable place, and a good 30 seconds went by before the safety car was deployed. All it would’ve taken was a single car to have understeered at the previous corner…

By: Pink Peril

Pink Peril — Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:19:36 +0000

Keith – why don’t we write an open letter to the FIA with our list of what we want – you can post it on the site and everyone can add their signatures?

Then send the lot to Paris – asking for a response of course. See how far we get !

For starters our demands are :
- Better TV coverage negotiated. No ads. Prime time slots(where possible). Pre race & support categories included.
- get rid of Max
- option to view races/quali etc on the web
- reduce aero devices to encourage overtaking
- ban refueling
- no more stupid regs like engine freeze
- consistency in decision making ie penalties
- remove the Ferrari International Assistance members from the FIA
- get rid of Max
- add ‘protected’ status to some races ie Monaco, Montreal, Spa, Silverstone, Melbourne, Magny Cours etc so Bernie has to stop threatening them all the time
- get rid of Max
- allow teams to experiment with alternative fuels etc
- if possible rescind on the 100 year deal with CVC and allow most of the revenue from races to remain with the teams, organisers, FIA. Anyone other than Bernie
- allow Michelin or other tyre suppliers back in
- find a solution to the customer car problem
- get rid of Max

I could go on for a bit longer, but I’m sure you get the point

By: Peter Boyle

Peter Boyle — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 23:57:41 +0000

If the cars are speed limited by ECU’s during periods
of unsafe track conditions (the new proposal) who needs
a safety car any more?

Why not just have *no* safety car and only the speed
limiters and yellow flags?

By: Chalky

Chalky — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:16:39 +0000

DG – “but when was the last time they raised any issues with Bernie?”
Well Martin Brundle (ITV) always has a little dig at Bernie normally, as I see it, when a circuit is below par compared to Silverstone.
His remarks on the grid walk to Bernie about turn 10 got news coverage because of the wording he used. But, he’s the only TV commentator I know that challenges him when he sees him about.
BTW – Bernies reply on the resurfacing of turn 10 before the Canadian GP was “It’s the same for everybody”.
Martin was probably thinking “You wouldn’t see that at Silverstone”

By: Alianora La Canta

Alianora La Canta — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:52:42 +0000

I’ve never joined a team fan club – at the point where I had enough money to join one, the team club I would have joined stopped existing and hasn’t been reinstated yet – but it’s been a long time since I heard of any fan club be able to have more than cosmetic influence on a team, let alone the sport. Says a lot about the power patterns in F1.

By: Keith Collantine

Keith Collantine — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 13:37:31 +0000

DG – it’s an interesting idea and I’m giving it some thought. When I decide what to do with it I’ll put something up on the site.

By: DG

DG — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 12:54:04 +0000

@Nik – I’m with you on this, your #33 says what I have been thinking for a long time. How many fans out there have joined a team fanclub? Are they listened to any more than if they hadnt?
Remember the last FIA survey? It didnt ask a lot of questions it should have asked, didnt include some options it should have done and more importantly didn’t allow for comments and suggestions from the fans. If that proves they aren’t listening, nothing does!
Also I’m not impressed with how the TV companies have to bow to the whims of FIA and FOM. I know they are tied into contracts, but when was the last time they raised any issues with Bernie?
Keith, as a man of the media, do you think its possible to get the fans organised on this? Perhaps not sit down demonstrations, but we should be starting with letters to the FIA, FOM and the various affiliated organisations at least!

By: Nik

Nik — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:38:33 +0000

DG: I think you hit something there, in that the fans of F1 have never really been organized in any way to counter the FIA and F1M. Lets face it, we can talk about a ban on refueling for as long as we want, nobody from F1 is ever going to notice. Almost every other sporting organization out there has an ear close to what the fans are thinking, while FIA and F1M seem to actively do what they can to _not_ consider the fans – thats just how arrogant they are.

It seems like we fans have been talking about this stuff forever in a vacuum, and its always the fans who first notice problems or shortfalls in decisions that FIA/F1M make. You *never* see F1 respond directly to issues that fans raise, they live in a fantasy world and they just expect us all to show up at each race and watch/pay for the telecasts.

I would love to see an organized web and track campaign to try and get the FIA/F1M’s attention on not just the the SC and other issues, but a campaign around getting these guys to not take us for granted and to actually pay attention to what the fans think and what they have to say.

As somebody who tunes out of F1 for a period of 6 years or so and came back to the sport last year, I can tell you now that I am as frustrated today as I was back then . At least when I watch football/tennis/rugby or whatever else I know that the organizing bodies are doing what they can to attract and please fans. The English football clubs bend over backwards to accommodate their fans, and F1 has a lot to learn from them. Thats also the reason why F1 will never get close to Indy or Nascar (which is bigger in $ terms than F1 despite only having a single market).

To me the only thing that has saved F1 in the past 2 years has been the quality of the new drivers (even though they are mostly PR drones outside of the car – again because of F1M) and the teams who have somehow found a way to work through ridiculous regulations to provide us with a good race every now and then and an exciting series.

I am sure that I am not the only one who feels this way, it seems that 80% of posts on all F1 blogs are dedicated to talking about silly rules, regulations or various controversies.

By: Chalky

Chalky — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 08:13:37 +0000

Brake lights are not needed for F1. All other racing formats mentioned are mainly based on road going cars and brake lights are therefore included. Even ALMS that have them for the multiple class of racing.
They should though add multiple sets of lights down the pit lane. So the drivers can see as they drive down the pit lane what the current exit lights are. In Nascar \ Indycar they have plenty of flashing yellow lights around the circuit, so why not have multiple sets down the the pit lane? If such a sequence had been deployed at Montreal I would reckon that crash would have been avoided.

Rabi – I think you’ll find that the SC will run slower than what the cars are limited at, otherwise your right it would not bunch up the field.

Sebastianbmw – That’s going back in time, when drivers only pitted for fresh tyres. Teams actually had to have an economical and quick engine to finish a 2hr race on 1 tank of fuel. Larger fuel tanks though.

By: DG

DG — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 07:26:58 +0000

“F1 needs to introduce brake lights”

@Nik – if its not done to have them in open-wheelers, since it allows the opposition to see when you are braking, how come they are used in Touring Cars, GT Racing, ALMS etc? Surely its still down to driver skill to outbrake an opponent?
I agree with your comments that each F1 circuit needs to be looked at on an individual basis to improve its safety procedures and crane locations etc, and it makes you wonder why they aren’t being judged on these merits already – since Magny-Cours is being dropped purely on its lack of hotels!
But that would mean Bernie, Max and Charlie actually having to talk to the circuits, the marshalls and the teams about real issues, and none of them are ever going to do that. They much prefer to make silly rules and aim for ‘entertainment’ and not ‘racing’!
It would be good to go back to a ban on refueling, as it would turn the race back into the endurance spectacle it used to be – maybe its time we organised trackside demonstrations, with big banners etc to get the point across? It would seem to be the only way to do it…..’F.A.R’ ‘FansAgainstRefueling’?? I’m already considering starting ‘AntiBernie.com’

By: Nik

Nik — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 04:42:10 +0000

“F1 needs to introduce brake lights”

There is a very good reason why they don’t have brake lights, because it reveals when a driver is braking! Imagine you are chasing a car down, it would make it much easier if you knew at what point he was breaking (a very big part of overtaking since you have to brake later and then slingshot through the bend).

I don’t mind refueling in races, especially because of the strategy element it introduces. I really dislike it in qualifying though as the fastest car isn’t always on pole.

If they sort out the dirty air issue and we see more slippery cars and more overtaking, you probably wouldn’t need refueling strategy as a part of F1. For now, it is a good stop-gap in terms of excitement.

Also if next years regulations do remove 30% of downforce, you will see a lot less tire wear which may make it possible to run an entire race with a single set of tyres (esp the harder compounds on circuits like Canada). With that and KERS, we might not be too far away from zero-stop strategies anyway.

By: Oliver

Oliver — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 01:33:15 +0000

What I’d really like to know is how easy it is to see the lights from far back in the pits especially as that is one area where a driver needs to watch out for not just other cars, but also people, be they crossing or in the path of the driver, while at the same time trying to minimize time spent loitering within those tight confines.

By: Johnny

Johnny — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:23:46 +0000

I tell you, the only sensible thing would be to ban refuelling, but since no one at the FIA will listen, we’ll have to live with this. They should make the lights at the exit larger so drivers won’t miss them as often like Rubens, Lewis and others have done but the FIA seem to be too caught up in the Mosley sex scandal to care. It sucks because I’m a big supporter of Kimi but days like these will be coming to everyone else too, and I would definitely predict Kimi will stand tall at the end of the year for WDC #2.

By: Nox

Nox — Wed, 11 Jun 2008 00:19:31 +0000

With the cars on some kind of “limiter” behind the safety car. How will they be able to keep their tyres and brakes warm without the occasional burst of power followed by braking hard?