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	<title>Comments on: Thought the Valencia race was rubbish? Don&#8217;t blame the track, blame the rules</title>
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	<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/</link>
	<description>F1 Fanatic - The Formula 1 Blog with F1 news, pictures, video, comment and analysis</description>
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		<title>By: Brar</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-4/#comment-197963</link>
		<dc:creator>Brar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-197963</guid>
		<description>The biggest problem in my opinion is the carisma loss.
Like a chess play it seems we arrived to an end (losting the game to the computer), as those frightining freezing seems to point.
I hope we dont´t
 
F1 is spreading, achiving more money, arising in that places that have good drivers and shrinking beyond the people wich simply love it because it was a way to  unknown levels of things like: security, performance, state of art and.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest problem in my opinion is the carisma loss.<br />
Like a chess play it seems we arrived to an end (losting the game to the computer), as those frightining freezing seems to point.<br />
I hope we dont´t</p>
<p>F1 is spreading, achiving more money, arising in that places that have good drivers and shrinking beyond the people wich simply love it because it was a way to  unknown levels of things like: security, performance, state of art and.</p>
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		<title>By: ogami musashi</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-4/#comment-197863</link>
		<dc:creator>ogami musashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:17:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-197863</guid>
		<description>@Contraro

Excellent point! 

FOTA and FIA seem to agree basically on the road relevance, that is unfortunately for me less engineering in some racing specific fields.

As such, a future measure proposed for 2011 regs by the teams is the homologation (freeze) of their chassis for 3 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Contraro</p>
<p>Excellent point! </p>
<p>FOTA and FIA seem to agree basically on the road relevance, that is unfortunately for me less engineering in some racing specific fields.</p>
<p>As such, a future measure proposed for 2011 regs by the teams is the homologation (freeze) of their chassis for 3 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Contraro</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-4/#comment-197331</link>
		<dc:creator>Contraro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:53:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-197331</guid>
		<description>I think the problem here is more than just the tracks or the lack of overtaking. The real issue (in my opinion) is that modern F-1 lacks an identity. Because of its prominent status in the motor racing world, everyone has a different opinion of what it should be.

Some people want it to be the fastest cars driven by the best drivers. Some people want to see lots of on track action while others want to see strategy. Some want to see cutting edge technology with the boundaries being pushed every race while others want to see road car relevant technologies. Some want to see less cost and more teams. Still others want to see the environmental agenda being furthered.

Even the manfacturers/teams and sponsors have their own priorities. Assuming that the FIA is competent to do it, how do you expect it to draft a coherent set of regulations that would address all those interests? The reality is that there is no simple answer since all these aspects are inter-related.

Every major (popular) racing series has been facing the issue recently. For example, NASCAR in the US has already decided what they will focus on (entertainment) while IndyCar is getting ready to do the same. At some point, FIA and FOM will have to figure out what the primary focus of F-1 should be. Then the solutions to the overtaking problem will be more apparent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the problem here is more than just the tracks or the lack of overtaking. The real issue (in my opinion) is that modern F-1 lacks an identity. Because of its prominent status in the motor racing world, everyone has a different opinion of what it should be.</p>
<p>Some people want it to be the fastest cars driven by the best drivers. Some people want to see lots of on track action while others want to see strategy. Some want to see cutting edge technology with the boundaries being pushed every race while others want to see road car relevant technologies. Some want to see less cost and more teams. Still others want to see the environmental agenda being furthered.</p>
<p>Even the manfacturers/teams and sponsors have their own priorities. Assuming that the FIA is competent to do it, how do you expect it to draft a coherent set of regulations that would address all those interests? The reality is that there is no simple answer since all these aspects are inter-related.</p>
<p>Every major (popular) racing series has been facing the issue recently. For example, NASCAR in the US has already decided what they will focus on (entertainment) while IndyCar is getting ready to do the same. At some point, FIA and FOM will have to figure out what the primary focus of F-1 should be. Then the solutions to the overtaking problem will be more apparent.</p>
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		<title>By: Brar</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-4/#comment-197304</link>
		<dc:creator>Brar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-197304</guid>
		<description>And I will like to add something more Ogami.
In wet races or semi-wet races like Monaco this year there was the same problem. Kimi didn´t manage to achieve the tyre tenperature. Let´s say he was with &quot;underdriving&quot; problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I will like to add something more Ogami.<br />
In wet races or semi-wet races like Monaco this year there was the same problem. Kimi didn´t manage to achieve the tyre tenperature. Let´s say he was with &#8220;underdriving&#8221; problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Brar</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-3/#comment-197255</link>
		<dc:creator>Brar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-197255</guid>
		<description>Ogami. 
What you had said to me in (37)in other words: 

In normal touring sprint car race, with low grip, the drivers common problem is to avoid to much over-driving, above the adhesion limit and ending with &quot;hot tyres&quot;. 

In formula 1, with high grip, the driver common problem is to push to the grip limit, and if he don´t make it the tyres don´t achieve the right working temperature range. 

Let add that and quote Keith (that´s easier then my English) 
&quot;F1 has been stuck with the same problem for years: the cars have become so dependent on their wings to generate downforce and grip they become hyper-sensitive to disturbed air from cars in front of them, and cannot get close enough to each other through corners&quot; 

And when the back driver by same chance finally comes close, to overtake, he needs necessarily to go &quot;off line&quot; in the ungrippy area. Unfair. 

These is obvious, OK. Also these obvious things becomes worse until now. I agree with you that for the first time in 2009 f1 regulations are going a little bit to the right way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ogami.<br />
What you had said to me in (37)in other words: </p>
<p>In normal touring sprint car race, with low grip, the drivers common problem is to avoid to much over-driving, above the adhesion limit and ending with &#8220;hot tyres&#8221;. </p>
<p>In formula 1, with high grip, the driver common problem is to push to the grip limit, and if he don´t make it the tyres don´t achieve the right working temperature range. </p>
<p>Let add that and quote Keith (that´s easier then my English)<br />
&#8220;F1 has been stuck with the same problem for years: the cars have become so dependent on their wings to generate downforce and grip they become hyper-sensitive to disturbed air from cars in front of them, and cannot get close enough to each other through corners&#8221; </p>
<p>And when the back driver by same chance finally comes close, to overtake, he needs necessarily to go &#8220;off line&#8221; in the ungrippy area. Unfair. </p>
<p>These is obvious, OK. Also these obvious things becomes worse until now. I agree with you that for the first time in 2009 f1 regulations are going a little bit to the right way.</p>
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		<title>By: Journeyer</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-3/#comment-196968</link>
		<dc:creator>Journeyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 08:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-196968</guid>
		<description>mute, I believe those &#039;sticking out bits&#039; (aka winglets) are banned for next year, leaving only the front and rear wings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mute, I believe those &#8216;sticking out bits&#8217; (aka winglets) are banned for next year, leaving only the front and rear wings.</p>
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		<title>By: Gman</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-3/#comment-196854</link>
		<dc:creator>Gman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:23:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-196854</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still new to this ballgame, so I can&#039;t offer nearly as much as most of you. However, I&#039;ve been hearing the complaints about Tilke&#039;s designs since I&#039;ve picked up on F1, and indeed I believe it offers little variation to have all new circuits designed by one office. Indeed, other than the road course at Indy, what was the last new or significantly modified circuit to enter F1 that was not designed by Tilke? 

Hopefully the new regs will address some of the overtaking issues- if not, a great deal of fans are going to be turned off from the sport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still new to this ballgame, so I can&#8217;t offer nearly as much as most of you. However, I&#8217;ve been hearing the complaints about Tilke&#8217;s designs since I&#8217;ve picked up on F1, and indeed I believe it offers little variation to have all new circuits designed by one office. Indeed, other than the road course at Indy, what was the last new or significantly modified circuit to enter F1 that was not designed by Tilke? </p>
<p>Hopefully the new regs will address some of the overtaking issues- if not, a great deal of fans are going to be turned off from the sport.</p>
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		<title>By: mute</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-3/#comment-196761</link>
		<dc:creator>mute</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-196761</guid>
		<description>Rather than ban wings, can&#039;t they just ban all of those &#039;sticking out bits&#039;. Since they are only there to assist downforce and thus genereate more, surely banning them will increase drag. 

And having slick tires next year would make up for some of the loss of grip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather than ban wings, can&#8217;t they just ban all of those &#8216;sticking out bits&#8217;. Since they are only there to assist downforce and thus genereate more, surely banning them will increase drag. </p>
<p>And having slick tires next year would make up for some of the loss of grip.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert McKay</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-3/#comment-196670</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert McKay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-196670</guid>
		<description>&quot;i understand your point, i have not the same view than you of F1. I’m more sensible to the actual engineering/driving part rather than the racecraft.
That said i’m frustrated when i see someone stuck behind someone for 20 laps.

the solutions of next year should make a step forward.
More is needed, but this is not as simple as “ban wings”.&quot;

I appreciate the engineering side. It&#039;s one of the main things that lifts it above other series like IRL and A1GP and GP2. However pure engineering alone is a bit like just having a starter for dinner. I don&#039;t think banning wings is required, but I do think the cars have gotten TOO complicated. They have become a bit too specialised - built for the idealised, theoretical, textbook situation of being the only car on track.

Which is fine for quali, but can make race day a tad unspectacular. Sometimes (just sometimes) I catch highlights of the Formula BMW support series and wish the F1 cars were having as much fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;i understand your point, i have not the same view than you of F1. I’m more sensible to the actual engineering/driving part rather than the racecraft.<br />
That said i’m frustrated when i see someone stuck behind someone for 20 laps.</p>
<p>the solutions of next year should make a step forward.<br />
More is needed, but this is not as simple as “ban wings”.&#8221;</p>
<p>I appreciate the engineering side. It&#8217;s one of the main things that lifts it above other series like IRL and A1GP and GP2. However pure engineering alone is a bit like just having a starter for dinner. I don&#8217;t think banning wings is required, but I do think the cars have gotten TOO complicated. They have become a bit too specialised &#8211; built for the idealised, theoretical, textbook situation of being the only car on track.</p>
<p>Which is fine for quali, but can make race day a tad unspectacular. Sometimes (just sometimes) I catch highlights of the Formula BMW support series and wish the F1 cars were having as much fun.</p>
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		<title>By: ogami musashi</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2008/08/25/thought-the-valencia-race-was-rubbish-dont-blame-the-track-blame-the-rules/comment-page-3/#comment-196634</link>
		<dc:creator>ogami musashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=8755#comment-196634</guid>
		<description>@Michael:

I agree with you that you need challenge. Either the challenge of pushing to the limit, or the challenge of driving on this limit.

I think we can broke down this to this one and only requirement:

-Having locally and timely variations of grip between two drivers.

After that we have some sub requirements that we can tweak:

This variations should be from driver skill only/due to variations in exterior parameters?

A lot of people will jump onto the first and then start to blame KERS, moveable wings etc..Only to talk about the period were refuel was banned which made..variations in lap time due to fuel comsumption, mass repartition and tyre wear etc..


It is always to remember a race is never a driver only issue.

That&#039;s why it makes the proposals for more overtaking difficult.


@Robert:

i understand your point, i have not the same view than you of F1. I&#039;m more sensible to the actual engineering/driving part rather than the racecraft.
That said i&#039;m frustrated when i see someone stuck behind someone for 20 laps.

the solutions of next year should make a step forward.
More is needed, but this is not as simple as &quot;ban wings&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael:</p>
<p>I agree with you that you need challenge. Either the challenge of pushing to the limit, or the challenge of driving on this limit.</p>
<p>I think we can broke down this to this one and only requirement:</p>
<p>-Having locally and timely variations of grip between two drivers.</p>
<p>After that we have some sub requirements that we can tweak:</p>
<p>This variations should be from driver skill only/due to variations in exterior parameters?</p>
<p>A lot of people will jump onto the first and then start to blame KERS, moveable wings etc..Only to talk about the period were refuel was banned which made..variations in lap time due to fuel comsumption, mass repartition and tyre wear etc..</p>
<p>It is always to remember a race is never a driver only issue.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why it makes the proposals for more overtaking difficult.</p>
<p>@Robert:</p>
<p>i understand your point, i have not the same view than you of F1. I&#8217;m more sensible to the actual engineering/driving part rather than the racecraft.<br />
That said i&#8217;m frustrated when i see someone stuck behind someone for 20 laps.</p>
<p>the solutions of next year should make a step forward.<br />
More is needed, but this is not as simple as &#8220;ban wings&#8221;.</p>
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