Lewis Hamilton wins but stewards investigate him and Raikkonen (Video)
Lewis Hamilton snatched victory in the Belgian Grand Prix from Kimi Raikkonen in the dying stages of the race.
But their thrilling duel as rain fell in the final laps of the race is being investigated by the stewards who feel Hamilton and Raikkonen may have broken the rules. Here’s a video of what happened:
The duel began when Hamilton caught Raikkonen on lap 42. He drew alongside the Ferrari on the outside of the chicane, but Raikkonen pushed him off the track
Is this what Raikkonen is being investigated for? Should he be penalised for it?
That meant Hamilton arrived on the start/finish straight ahead of Raikkonen. Having gained an unfair advantage he let Raikkonen past (which is what he should have done with Vettel at Magny-Cours) but then re-passed Raikkonen at the next corner (La Source).
Is this what Hamilton is being investigated for? Should he be penalised for it?
Later on lap 43 Raikkonen ran wide at Pouhon but regained the circuit without seeming to gain much of an advantage.
Then Hamilton came across a spinning Williams and had to drive off the circuit in avoidance. Raikkonen also took evasive action and seemed to hit Hamilton in doing so. But surely for both drivers this was an unavoidable consequence of Raikkonen trying to avoid the Williams?
I don’t think anything that happened on the last few laps deserves a penalty from the stewards. If anyone was at fault, it was Raikkonen for pushing Hamilton off the track at the chicane. But the stewards have already shown they don’t punish drivers for pushing each other off the track - as with Fernando Alonso and Hamilton at this track last year.
Do you think either driver deserves a penalty? What sort of penalty should they have?
Here’s what Ron Dennis had to say about the investigation on ITV:
First of all we don’t know what the investigation is about. One assumes it was the incident between Kimi and Lewis at the chicane. First of all, Lewis was ahead at the chicane and he got pushed wide. He definitely was in the lead coming out of the chicane, we immediately radioed him to let Kimi past. We let Kimi past and then overtook him again before the line.
Inevitably, we wanted to know whether we had actually, that was deemed to be a correction of that, and we checked with Charlie [Whiting], of course Charlie can only give an opinion, he’s not the stewards, but he gave an opinion that we had complied properly to the regulations. I would even dispute that there was any fault because we had the corner in the chicane, but even if we didn’t have the corner we let Kimi back in the lead.
Update: the stewards have passed their decision and stripped Hamilton of his win. More here.
The comments have been split across multiple pages. If you are having trouble viewing the pages click here to see all comments.
- Kimi Raikkonen to win four in a row at Spa? (2008 Belgian Grand Prix preview)
- Belgian GP 2008 predictions
- Lewis Hamilton on pole position at Spa (2008 Belgian Grand Prix qualifying)
- Belgian GP driver fuel load predictions
- Belgian Grand Prix: rate the race
- Lewis Hamilton wins but stewards investigate him and Raikkonen (Video)
- Crazy end to Belgian Grand Prix (Video)
- Championship tables after the Belgian GP
- Late tyre change cost Alonso the win
- Lewis Hamilton is moral victor in Spa thriller (2008 Belgian Grand Prix review)
- Lewis Hamilton stripped of Belgian GP win - another asinine FIA decision
- Belgian Grand Prix statistics & facts
- 2008 Belgian Grand Prix in pictures
- Seven reasons why so many F1 fans are furious about Hamilton’s penalty
- Belgian GP: team mate performances
- Hamilton penalty: FIA closes the stable door after the horse has bolted (Video)
- Hamilton penalty: The trial (Poll)
- McLaren claims the FIA mis-represented its own steward in Lewis Hamilton trial
- Lewis Hamilton’s appeal fails and Felipe Massa keeps Belgian Grand Prix win
No penalty. It is just racing!!!
bet lewis will get a penalty as the fia clearly love ferrari
Exactly what happened, and what rules were broken if any, in that confusion — I can’t make up my mind either way there.
David has it exactly right. We can’t afford some skin-challenged nobody to beat FIArrari, can we?
lewis had advantage by going off so i think penalty
It was just some good fair racing. I’d be surprised if either drivers get any penalty.
he did the same thing in france
there is some spelling mistakes in your post
btw i missed the race..
can u tell me from where i can download the full race?
Hamilton shouldn’t have passed Raikkonen at La Source. He got a better run out of the last corner by cutting the chicane - see Alonso/Klien Japan 05.
Maybe they’re investigating Raikkonen for getting a good run on Lewis while being offtrack.
..that’s what i assume they’re being investigated for anyway. No penalties necessary as far as i’m concerned.
It was just racing. As much as I didn’t want Hamilton to win, he did nothing wrong today and deserved his victory.
I don’t think either driver had any fault in the incident. Kimi had every right to defend his line, Lewis every right to challenge it.
do the rules specify any time limit for the stewarts to announce their decision…???
No penalty.
Was just racing, and given the dire conditions I think both did well to keep it on track.
Oh, wait a minute!
I don’t get the bit about hamilton getting a better run out of the chicane? He was ahead on the straight so he had to ease off to let kimi passed. Then he just went for a big lunge up the inside and outbreaked him.
Kimi hit the back of him, maybe a 10 place grid drop for Kimi next race ;p
i meant stewards… sorry Jackie!
The penalty is not because of the chicane. After that, in the zone where there is that big straight line, where the helicopters film, hamilton defending his 1st place changed lines twice, while defending one can only change line once. (sorry for my english, I’m not a native speaker)
No penalty - it’s just racing!!
It was an okay race until the rain fell and it became amazing! Good calls by Heidfeld and Alonso going in to get the inters - and good drives by the Toro Rosso drivers for a double points finish.
Trig, how did Lewis have more momentum, as he was in front of Kimi, let him pass before the white line, and then re-passed him. You’re challenging physical laws here;)
Hamilton clearly infringed Rule 345-4-B.
‘No McLaren driver shall humiliate a Ferrari driver and cause him/her to make a complete tit of themselves in the wall.’
Victory o Massa then obviously.
Firstly I saw nothing wrong, as Lewis was pushed wide, and let Kimi back through. he was then fully behind Kimi before he made his next move at the first corner. (Kimi then totallie-deliberately-liek-OMG tried to puncture Lewis’ rear right tyre during La Source).
Secondly, Kimi then gained an advantage by staying off the track at Pouhon, which ultimately gave him the lead back at the entrance to the fast chicane (albeit helped by a badly parked Williams).
Thirdly it doesn’t matter anyway because then Kimi (once again, wandering around on the tarmac runoff) stuck his car in the wall.
Hamilton was beside Kimi on the straight and backed off, not enough. Kimi had no chance on the corner…thus he had to push much harder to get in front. If Hamilton had have been fair, then Kimi would have had the lead for the rest of the lap.
Also, Dennis saying Hamilton was in front at the chicance? are you kidding me? Having a front wing ahead does not mean you’ve made the pass.
Hamilton should be dq’ed.
Obviously Kimi will be unhappy with the outcome but he must accept he only has himself to blame for crashing. If FIA alter the result, it’ll be a huge mistake. The end of the race was fantastic viewing, precisely what F1 needs. Other than that, the only marginal fault was Kimi pushing Lewis off at the chicane - a very mild version of Kovi’s move on Webber (punished with a drive through).
I don’t really see how Hamilton could’ve got a better run at the last corner, given he had to be travelling slower than Raikkonen in order for Raikkonen to get the lead again up the inside of the straight and move physically in front of Hamilton to take the outside line round la source.
Both Lewis and Kimi drove fabulously. No-one should be punished. The last few laps were absolutely riviting!
I think Hamilton had a clear advantage because he could get side by side at La Source, which couldn’t otherwise if he had done the chicane. However I think Kimi didn’t give him enough room.
Everybody can have his own opinion, but I think those are the facts.
It’s all a joke. What’s to investigate? Did the FIA feel that the last two laps were too exciting?
It was interesting that Ron Dennis jumped straight to Hamilton’s cutting the Bus Stop when asked about why the stewards were investigating.
Raikkonen doesn’t deserve a penalty for the antics at the chicane - he drove robustly but fairly. He was ahead going into the second part of the Bus Stop and entitled to take his line. Lewis could have backed off but he opted not to - I can’t imagine him driving any differently in Kimi’s position.
Whether Lewis gave Kimi back enough of an advantage is more marginal. Having gained a clear advantage by jumping the chicane, Lewis was still close enough to pass into the next corner. But the camera angle is deceptive and it might have made Hamilton appear closer to Kimi than he actually was. Who knows what the stewards will decide.
Either way, Lewis deserves to keep his win - Massa drove reasonably well but doesn’t deserve to inherit this one.
you might be right bernification… i just thought it was a bit dodgy at the time. He was closer to Raikkonen than he would’ve been had he taken the corner correctly.
Just speculation on my part as to what he might be under investigation for…
aa- the fact was Lewis was on the oposite side when he ‘gained an advantage’ to that which he overtook on- so much for facts.
The stewards should penalise both drivers. In current F1, fights on track are not allowed!
No Spencer, the FIA realised that McLaren beat Ferrari so they needed to find a way to punish them
Questions (fair, factual reasoned analysis, please - I have my own prejudices here, but trying to understand it all):
1) Who’s fault Ham cut the chicane?
2) If advantage gained over that segment, how so?
3) can anyone discuss in detail Trig’s comment re: Alonso/Klein Japan 05?
Thanks!
It’s races like that that make F1 what it is.
If the FIA go penalising anyone it will only make a mockery f the whole thing.
Lewis given 10 place penalty for next race………..
We reckon Raikkonen and Hamilton will both get grid penalties for the next race - Raikkonen for forcing Hamilton wide, Hamilton for gaining an advantage from his increased momentum even after he’d given the place back.
A very subtle way of assisting Ferrari without making it too obvious.
And you only have to look at how trigger-happy the stewards were in the first GP2 race. Perhaps smarting over the criticism the Valencia stewards got for inactivity?
Of course, the whole thing is a conspiracy to scupper our team in McLaren’s Fantasy Grand Prix League…
This was a rare F1 moment that reminded of you of classic duels like Dijon 79. And now the stewards think there’s something wrong with that?!
I guess I should add that the point of my questions is, aren’t these individual questions appropriate for the stewards to investigate, and on which to make findings?
Hamilton blatantly cut the chicane, and he barely backed off at all on the home straight immediately afterwards. He should be punished for that… how harshly I don’t know, but he shouldn’t be let off completely. We wouldnt be having this discussion if the runoff areas weren’t so farcically generous.
let’s hope next year the overtaking rate doesn’t improve too much… ‘cos all the races will be “investigated” then…
does the fia just hate racing these days? they don’t seem happy unless half the audience is nodding off…maybe so fewer people will notice their bad calls, maybe they’re just in leaque with red bull to sell more energy drinks but honestly, this is pretty silly.
brilliant gamble by bmw and renault. heidfeld wasn’t even on my radar until he crossed the line and i figured alonso had just thrown 4th place when he pitted.
fan, you may be right about why they’re looking at hamilton but i thought they get one manouvre to defend the position. he took one and sort of more than that but not incredibly blatant and i was sort of squinting at those moves too, but i think he caught himself doing it. that from a kimi fan, too.
the cynic in me would say hmmm….massa’s little red wagon is 2nd at 9:15 am, where will he be at 9:15 pm?
It is simply impossible for Hamilton to have “increased momentum” after giving the place back. Raikkonen managed to slice in front of him after he relinquished the place, which would have been impossible at that point unless they were travelling at the same speed and the place had been given back.
Sure, Hamilton cut it really fine, fine enough to pick up the tow immediately and outbrake Kimi at the next corner. Great move, no penalty, move along.
Penalty for hamham he caused kimis crash.
Having looked at the tape again, I don’t think Kimi pushed Lewis off, he had the line and was protecting his right to take the corner in the second part of the Bus Stop.
No fines or penalties to either drivers, it was great racing and we should not penalize drivers who want to try and overtake.
sergio, I fail to see how Hamilton caused Kimi’s crash.
Having looked at the video again I think Raikkonen’s weaving on the straight was questionable.
hamilton caused kimi’s crash? erh, i thought it was probably hitting that paint as he came off the runoff area. my, my, lewis is more talented than any of us previously thought, isn’t he?
diseased rat, I agree, a bit of elementary physics in order! If Kimi went past Lewis, either he was accelerating (faster) or Lewis de-accelerating (faster). No momentum advantage for Lewis! Since he passed from Kimi’s left (behind him) to his right, he also had to be fully behind Kimi to achieve this remarkable bit of driving!
Finally Kimi hit Hamilton (lightly) on entering the chicane, meaning he had to go off track or spin like Webber.
Frankly the ‘issue’ is surreally pointless except for people who don’t want any actual racing! Ferrari maybe.
This is another reason why paved run offs are bad. We wouldn’t be debating if they had an advantage going off the track if both sides of the chicane were filled with thorn bushes.
Also, if you read the story on Formula1.com you will see they fail to mention the investigation until the last three words of the paragraph. (your site was overloaded Kieth, I had to look elsewhere.)
I can’t believe I fell back asleep after the second round of pit stops! (8am here) I thought, “well, nothing interesting is going to happen in the last 15 laps…”
Guys sergio was joking. Unless he really is one of those idiot FIArri fans
Am I correct (in the little research I’ve been able to do) that in ‘05 Alonso had to give the place back again, after similar maneuver? If so, it’s pretty hard to see how ANYONE could have kept track moment-to-moment of everything that was happening, thus (much as I HATE this) it’s hard to see a DQ as fair, but it IS reasonable for some penalty to accrue -
And now, whither Kimi (and thus Fernando) in 2009??
If the stewards do anything to Lewis now it will be a new low for their credibility and for F1. Brilliant racing from both Lewis and Kimi (until he spooned it into the wall), wonderful to watch.
Hands off FIA.
Nick,
Your argument is ridiculous. The regulations required Hamilton to let Raikkonen pass. They didn’t require him to give up any chance of retaking the position in the next corner. It’s clear in your comment that your thinking is guided more by anti-Hamilton fervor than rationality.
No penalties should be distributed to either driver. What they displayed on the track was damned fine (and legal) racing.
According to F1Complete.com Ferrari have lodged an official protest against Hamilton’s racing tactics. I guess this might involve his weaving on the straight after he passed Kimi. Hopefully the stewards will see sense and leave the result alone. Great end to the race!
http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/10089/900/
If Lewis gets a penalty, it will be so disgusting, especially after Charlie Whiting, the experienced F1 referee, said to Ron Dennis he had done nothing wrong. To change the outcome of such an exciting race, or penalise Lewis in the next one, would be such a clear example of bias, I think F1 would be tainted for ever more.
let it go…………
if u penalise drivers for that we’ll get even less racing than we do now as there’s too much to lose for getting it wrong, not finishing is bad enuff!
fans love what we saw at the end today and it was in all honesty a fairly dull race till then
Like I said, FIA should penalise and disqualify the wall for totalling Kimi’s car. Why stop at Hamilton?
I’m a huge Raikkonen and Ferrari fan and even I fail to see any reasoning behind the investigation. At most, they could say that Hamilton didn’t back off enough to let Kimi have it easy for the next corner, but is that enough of a reason to penalise someone? Would Kimi be penalised by FIA if the places were switched? I doubt it…
Neither should be punished, every time there is some good racing they interfere.
A penalty would be oh so counter-productive in just about every respect.
I notice it’s not been mentioned so far; lets not forget Lewis clawed his way back to pile on the pressure and indeed make the move in the 1st place.
Wonderful aggression from the championship contender - that’s exactly what we expect.
As brilliant as Massa has been in the 2nd half of the season I cannot imagine him doing the same?
Lewis, gutsy as hell - taking on Kimi for gods sake, the current WDC adn coming out 10 points up on him.
Awesome (Lewis, of course…)
@Martin,
In Suzuka ‘05, Alonso legally let Klien through again after cutting the final chicane. He then got a better run out of the final corner and re-overtook him at the first corner on the very next lap. However, the stewards apparently didn’t notice this move, and ordered Alonso to let Klien re-re-pass. However, it was revealed after that Alonso had done the right thing, and the stewards were at fault.
So in a similar situation to the one we saw at Spa today, I cannot see how a penalty for cutting the chicane can be justified, especially as, unlike Alonso in Suzuka, Hamilton did not gain any momentum on the straight.
Hamilton still gained an advantage by cutting the second part of the bus-stop; an advantage that he still had (by dint of being closer to Kimi than he would have been had he not cut the corner), and it is this advantage that enabled him to overtake Kimi at La Source.
Thus, I am of the opinion that Hamilton must be punished as he still had an advantage from cutting the Bus Stop while going into La Source.
It seemed to me that Kimi was taking the racing line which he was allowed to do. No fault.
The point with the momentum is that Hamilton waited until Kimi passed him, with a very small speed difference, and slotted into the slipstream instead having to accelerate out of the corner to catch him up. In that respect he very clearly had an advantage. That, however, is not the same as saying he broke the rule. I don’t know the letter of the law on that one.
This advantage is not relevent to race result because he then lost the place again so should there be a penalty it should be financial and not one that affects racing.
Finally, the swerving looked odd, but I would need to see it again.
@Gareth,
Thanks for the reply, it’s helpful.
To impose again, can you clarify this with specifics:
“However, it was revealed after that Alonso had done the right thing, and the stewards were at fault.”
Thanks,
Martin
Oh, and one more thing, there is no way in this (or any other) universe that Hamilton was ahead of Kimi going into the final part of the Bus Stop, no matter what Ron Dennis and McLaren might claim.
@ Martin,
I’m not 100% sure, but relying solely on my memory and what was said in the ITV coverage, but it turned out that Alonso had legally let Klien through but the FIA stewards forced Alonso to let Klien through once more, before seeing afterwards that he had already done so. That was part of the reason why he lost the race, but that’s a different story.
That’s all to the best of my knowledge, I may be wrong.
Take a look at minute 0:59. He cannot change lines so many times in a defensive position… This is why he is being investigation I guess
Well, if Gareth is correct (and again many thanks), then despite my feeling like someone shot Santa Claus today, I’m DEEPLY depressed, that puts smug little Lewis within the letter of the rule, and that should be that.
(You have to imagine my TVU player lagging and freezing during the last laps, breakfast spilling everywhere from my pounding on the table, neighbors complaining about the screaming, girlfriend packing her bags, etc - I guess I’ll be o.k. eventually)
As for the facts, at the bus stop,
The rule is, if you gain an advantage by a shortcut, you have to let the guy by. Hamilton gained an advantage, then let Kimi by—not by a nose, but fully ahead. Case closed.
As for the contact in the chicane, Hamilton entered the corner ahead and had the choice of going through the chicane or crashing into Raikonnen as Kimi took the line. Hamilton could not stop or slow enough to avoid contact without going through the chicane. If the contact was proximately caused by Kimi. Case closed
As for the “blocking” on Kemmel. When Hamilton came back left, Kimi had no run on the outside. There was no blocking. You might also ask about Kimi’s crazy swerving toward la Source. That was dangerous driving. Not to mention hitting Hamilton from behind as he went by.
Lets see if Hamilton gets a penalty after Massa gets a wrist slap for gratuitously risking a pit lane accident in Valencia. That would be telling.
It looks to me like he moved to the racing line first, then moved to the inside, then back to the racing line. That is permitted as far as I am aware.
f1-live seems to think there are two separate investigations: http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=17929&part=sports
If so, I’d guess the chicane chicanery is the original investigation and that Hamilton’s weaving is what Ferrari are protesting.
I think neither merits a punishment
Did anyone notice any overtaking under yellow the last couple of laps? there ought to be a few
By the way, remember Massa and Kubica at Suzuka last year, racing doesn’t necessarily have to take place on the track.
Posted wrong link, don’t know how that happened
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080907164601.shtml
First off, under the rain Hamilton would have won as Ferrari had serious issues with the tires.
Now with no rain … Hamilton would have come in second. In no way he would have challenged Kimi.
What happened? (And this is where I doubt the integrity of the site owner from their comments). Lewis should have eased off rather than overtake Kimi right away after the incident at the bus stop. Definitely Lewis would have won. In my opinion Ferrari could only consolidate a victory by changing types to wet.
So Lewis braked late into the chicane where the only options it would leave him being, hit Kimi or cut the chicane all together. Thus enabling hamilton to close the gap to ‘avoid’ an accident with Kimi.
Rohan - re: Hamilton not being ahead of Raikkonen. I froze the above video at 22 seconds and got this.
Sav I’ve no idea why you’re casting aspersions on my integrity. I called it as I saw it. What’s your problem?
Kimi didn’t leave any room for hamilton and he let raikonen back through so why does there need to be an investigation. Hamilton didn’t have any momentum coming out of the corner, however if a penalty is enforced then it should be a financial penalty.
This pisses me off, quite a bit:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70401
Lewis did not really claw his way back, the traffic helped quite abit. Kimi was pulling out .1 per lap and when traffic takes away 1.5 seconds…what can you do? Spa has plenty of places for slipstream passing.
I agree with dmw - you can’t penalise Hamilton after Massa’s (though it should have been Ferrari’s) measly punishment for the pit lane fiasco in Valencia.
How can three stewards who stayed in the dry for the whole race possibly penalise a driver on slick tyres in those conditions?
sorry to say it but FIA = Ferrari AGAIN
Hamilton penalised 25 seconds, wow what a terrible decision.
BREAKING NEWS: Hamilton penalised by 25 seconds, handing win to Massa.
It would almost be funny if it wasn’t so absolutely predictably pathetic.
There is no joke you can make about Ferrari International Assistance that is more outrageous than fact, it would appear.
Hamilton has been stripped of his win. more to follow.
Keith - I thought you were talking about the second part of the Bus Stop just before Hamilton cut the corner(where Kimi was ahead), and not the entry.
I apologise for any insult I may have caused through this mis-understanding.
Keith, I think you have to understand, from looking at Rohan’s comments, if Lewis had eaten an apple, Rohan would swear it was a kiwi fruit. He clearly hates the guy and cannot see fairness because of that. Even Ferrari supporters on here can see that no penalty should be given to either driver. It would just be a travesty if that happened. And if reports are correct that Ferrari themselves have lodged a complaint, then that shows them as very small minded, embarrassing cheats.
What is your own opinion Keith?
Look, why not just have a rule saying Ferrari win everything, full stop? Massa must be so proud to inherit this win.
How can the stewards possibly justify this action???
Just watched the replay, does not look to me like Hamilton lets Raikkonen through. Yes, the Ferrari gets in front but maybe not because of any backing-off from the McLaren. Would like to see some telemetry.
hamilton let kimi by after gaining the advantage. those are the rules. the rules do not say that you have to relinquish the position and jump on the binders to make sure everyone knows you have relinquished the position. i think the fact that hamilton was thinking quickly enough to pick the best spot to let kimi by without scrubbing too much speed and then take a little advantage of the draft, in the wet, on race tires, not intermediates (they weren’t intermediates, were they?) says all that need be said about hamilton(who i don’t actually over-like, by the way). and this from a guy who only drove once at indy where everyone f1 sort of starts warming to the whole idea of tow since you don’t see much of it on any other track.
i’d say he was sharp enough to take advantage of a bad situation more than gained advantage from the situation.
Hamilton was given the same drive through penalty in France. He should learn how to pass.
Massa won, Hamilton penalised …
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70401
mass won hamilton deserved to be penalised
Time for Hamilton to threaten to quit F1 (again). Seriously. This is a joke.
I do not think hamilton deserved to be penalised, but I am not surprised (as I said in the liveblog).
P.S. Looks like I was posting about this in the wrong thread, sorry about that!
FIA and Ferrari can go F..K themself’s. That’s all i have to say this is becoming trully funny
Gotta jump back in:
1) enjoy the site, the reporting as much as the discussions, and don’t think questioning anyone’s “integrity” has any place in this -
2) what exactly was Hamilton penalized for? (which specific thing)
3) I wear the hat, the t-shirt and wave the flag from Maranello but I cannot see how it is fair to take away a win, especially one coming from such fantastic racing all around, when so many other penalties are available (I assume - fine/grid/other?)
Regardless of whether Lewis deserved to be punished, why a retrospective drive through applied as a 25 second time penalty? Promoting Massa and Heidfeld one place each doesn’t reflect either’s actual performance in the race. If Hamilton had to be punished then why not a 10 place grid penalty for Monza? Why decide the race result in the stewards’ room, not on the racetrack?
More here: Lewis Hamilton stripped of Belgian GP win - another asinine FIA decision
Ive watched this sport for 15 years and I have never believed that some stewards actually favored Ferrari until today. A hits B and forces him off the off track, B lets A by, then A hits B again after being passed. B gets a post-race time penalty. This is beyond the pale.
this is outrageous!