Comments on: Could Sebastien Bourdais have beaten Sebastian Vettel in the Italian GP?

By: Bahjat Tabbara

Bahjat Tabbara — Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:26:51 +0000

Being at the back of the pack after the car stalled is enough to kill off morale, & Bourdais no doubt may not have wholly recovered but the 2nd fastest lap is something to show. Had he started at the front the patterns would have differed & he would most probably have been a top-eight finisher, perhaps even top-5 or podium, but when one’s at the back having qualified fourth it’s not a good way to begin. Curiously Webber who qualified third was no where near the points, where Kovy finished where he started.

By: Daniel

Daniel — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:56:50 +0000

bourdais was constantly overtaking people, in contrast, vettel always had a clean view and no one to overtake. that should be taken into account.

By: Peter

Peter — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:42:35 +0000

I was so disappointed to see Seb stall on the start line. I think he would have definitely had a top four race. As for the new chassis I can tell you from my very close grape vine that the STR03 chassis was designed pretty much for Vettel or at least his style of driving, unfortunatley Seb B likes exactly the opposite type of handling. He is having a real hard time adapting to this new chassis (even tho it is obviously a fast one). I also know that he will definitely be driving either F1 or Indy next year. Which? I guess up to the boys in F1.

By: Pedro Andrade

Pedro Andrade — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:10:20 +0000

Well, it is difficult to predict, but I agree with what some people said, he probably lost time while letting other drivers past, and of course it wouldn’t have been very motivating to start a race a lap down on everybody.

By: donwatters

donwatters — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:42:03 +0000

Way too many variables to really predict where SeaBass could have finished. That said, I really think he probably would have finished on the podium.

By: Pride

Pride — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:49:34 +0000

Oliver I disagree with you. Bourdais has experienced driving in wet races. Last year in Toronto, Montremblant and race of america wet practice. I think the main difference is adapting from a high rev engine to a high torque turbocharged engine in the wet. But he demonstrated a great handling of the car in wet practice. I think he is a highly talented guy with 12 races in f1 compared to 20 from Vettel. Big difference.

By: Oliver

Oliver — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 15:23:33 +0000

Bourdais comes from a series, where, they hardly race in the rain. So he’s not used to the kind of spray these F1 cars generate. Starting 4th, he would have needed at least another 8 or 9 laps for the spray to reduce a bit. Lets not forget also that he wears glasses underneath that visor.
My prediction, Big Crash!!!.

By: Kris

Kris — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:40:47 +0000

It looks like this took quite a lot of work! The results don’t look wonderful for Bourdais, I was hoping he’d have been quicker, perhaps enough so to state “he’d have finished on the podium” but looking at it I think we’d have been looking at 5th or 6th, unless I’m not making enough of a blue-flag allowance

Thanks for taking the time to look this through, I didn’t even realise you’d spotted it at the time… A very pleasant surprise when it popped up in my RSS reader

By: antonyob

antonyob — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 12:04:44 +0000

yes quite so Andy. I agree with pigdog but its hardly a slow news day with the worlds financial institutions imploding more effectively than Al QUieda ever managed!

Outright pace doesnt win you races as Kimi is intent on proving this season. Its the mindset that needs to be right. Bourdais may well have been able to match Vettel, we’ll never know but we do know that theres more pressure when your leading a wet race than when you are charging from the back with nothing to lose. Id say Bourdais is improving nicely but that he hasnt got the potential of Vettel.

WHo knows, Vettel might be another Kubica ( well over rated in my view) but ive got a hunch hes more Lewis than Lady Hamilton.

By: Andy

Andy — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 10:06:27 +0000

To me the interesting thing is where he would have finished had he not stalled – he said third but I suspect possibly second… it’s difficult to say how relevant is his speed when he was stuck as a tail-end charlie compared with how he would have gone had he been racing with other cars for points.

By: Sooooperpigdog

Sooooperpigdog — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:01:32 +0000

All very interesting, but totally irrelevent. Slow news day today, Keith?

By: Andy R

Andy R — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:55:05 +0000

In theory Vettel should have had all the advantages, a clear view, less traffic, blue flags to lap, where as Bourdais would have at times had to contend with low visibility, getting passed cars that were a lap ahead etc. So question one is how much time that cost him.

Question two – do we know what fuel strategy he was on (and was extra added when restarting?) as I’d think this (i.e. tyre timings) would have been the other key factor in where he’d have been in the 19 second 3rd to 9th Kubica to Raikkonen.

By: Jean

Jean — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:52:14 +0000

I think not , he is still finding himself in F1 – most drivers take a year to adjust except for (Hamilton fans will love me today !) an exceptional talent like Lewis for example. Heikki battled in his first year , esp. the 1st half thereof. And so has Nelson Piquet. Considering Bourdais’ previous titles , STR should give him at least another year , while Renault should also with Nelson. And after all , Vettel himself , had a few races in the end of 2006 , before he started to improve from then on.

By: Terry Fabulous

Terry Fabulous — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:22:05 +0000

I guess we also need to consider how Seb B spent the race in traffic while Seb V had a lot more wide open spaces.

I don’t think he would have beaten Seb V, but he would have podiumed. (Not a real word, sorry)

By: Keith Collantine

Keith Collantine — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 08:16:21 +0000

Pedro – It’s hard to say for sure where he would have finished had he started in his original position. Even if he had started fourth he would still have been in spray as Cyanide points out.

But for the sake of argument, Nico Rosberg was fourth after the safety car period, 5.948s behind Vettel. Had that been Bourdais’ position at that point in the race, given that he subsequently lost 42.666s to Vettel, it points to a finishing position of ninth (+48.614s).

By: Jonesracing82

Jonesracing82 — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:36:16 +0000

ppl seem to forget at start of this year bourdais was hammering vettel in the old car! since the new car came along, vettel has had the upper hand, if he doesnt get the drive next year, the sad thing is next years cars may suit him more wioth slicks and less downforce

By: Pedro Andrade

Pedro Andrade — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:07:56 +0000

I disagree: that’s probably the data he wants Berger to see. You don’t mention it on the analysis, so I may be wrong, but I suspect he would’ve finished third had the car not stalled. So, when his seat for next year is being discussed, he can say: “if the the car hadn’t stall on the grid at Monza (which was probably not my fault), I could’ve been third, having started from fourth”.

I think Bourdais had a great race.

By: cyanide

cyanide — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:06:30 +0000

Interesting stuff, but you’d also have to factor in the massive amount of spray he was probably getting while being last, instead of atleast being able to move off-line and getting a clear line in 4th. I’m surprised you even went for the total-race-time statistic to prove this, that too on a rain-affected race. I feel sorry for the guy. Between the few rookies this year, he’s probably done the best he could from the machinery that was provided to him.