Lewis Hamilton’s appeal fails and Felipe Massa keeps Belgian Grand Prix win
McLaren losing an appeal is hardly news, but anyway, it's happened again
Lewis Hamilton’s appeal against the penalty he received in the Belgian Grand Prix has been rejected by the FIA.
The FIA International Court of Appeal’s decision means Felipe Massa remains the winner of the Belgian Grand Prix ahead of Nick Heidfeld and Hamilton.
As was widely expected the FIA threw out the appeal on the grounds that it was inadmissible, despite claims they mis-represented the opinions of one of their own stewards to do so, and contradicted a precedent set when Vitantonio Liuzzi appealed a similar penalty last year. Decision in full below:
International Court of Appeal - Decision
23/09/2008
At the Grand Prix of Belgium, run on 7 September 2008, and counting towards the 2008 FIA Formula One World Championship, the Stewards of the meeting imposed a drive-through penalty upon the driver of car No. 22, Lewis Hamilton, for a breach of Article 30.3 (a) of the 2008 FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations and Appendix L, Chapter 4, Article 2 (g) of the International Sporting Code.
As the drive-through penalty was imposed at the end of the race, 25 seconds were added to the driver’s elapsed race time in accordance with Article 16.3 of the FIA 2008 Formula One Sporting Regulations.
Article 152 of the International Sporting Code states that drive-through penalties are “not susceptible to appeal”.
The competitor Vodafone McLaren Mercedes appealed the Steward’s decision before the International Court of Appeal in a hearing in Paris on September 22nd.
Having heard the explanations of the parties the Court has concluded that the appeal is inadmissible.
The International Court of Appeal was presided over by Mr Philippe NARMINO (Monaco), elected President, and composed of Mr Xavier CONESA (Spain), Mr Harry DUIJM (Netherlands), Mr Thierry JULLIARD (Switzerland) and Mr Erich SEDELMAYER (Austria).
NOTES FOR EDITORS
Article 16.3 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations provides as follows:
The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping.
b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
c) a drop of ten grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 25 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned.
Paragraph 5 of Article 152 of the International Sporting Code provides as follows:
Penalties of driving through or stopping in pit lanes together with certain penalties specified in FIA Championship regulations where this is expressly stated, are not susceptible to appeal.
The comments below have been split across multiple pages. If you are having difficulty viewing the pages click here to see all comments
- Kimi Raikkonen to win four in a row at Spa? (2008 Belgian Grand Prix preview)
- Belgian GP 2008 predictions
- Lewis Hamilton on pole position at Spa (2008 Belgian Grand Prix qualifying)
- Belgian GP driver fuel load predictions
- Belgian Grand Prix: rate the race
- Lewis Hamilton wins but stewards investigate him and Raikkonen (Video)
- Crazy end to Belgian Grand Prix (Video)
- Championship tables after the Belgian GP
- Late tyre change cost Alonso the win
- Lewis Hamilton is moral victor in Spa thriller (2008 Belgian Grand Prix review)
- Lewis Hamilton stripped of Belgian GP win - another asinine FIA decision
- Belgian Grand Prix statistics & facts
- 2008 Belgian Grand Prix in pictures
- Seven reasons why so many F1 fans are furious about Hamilton’s penalty
- Belgian GP: team mate performances
- Hamilton penalty: FIA closes the stable door after the horse has bolted (Video)
- Hamilton penalty: The trial (Poll)
- McLaren claims the FIA mis-represented its own steward in Lewis Hamilton trial
- Lewis Hamilton’s appeal fails and Felipe Massa keeps Belgian Grand Prix win
JUSTICE!
Sadly, once again the sport has been made to look like the loser.
In a perfect world you’d hope that the FIA would take a long, hard look at themselves over how they’ve handled this and implement some changes to clean up their act.
It ain’t gonna happen though is it?
Since the same organization felt the need the clarify and explain the rule they used for the penalty after the penalty was already given, this is further evidence that they don’t really care about fair judgement at all. No surprise.
So we wait 2 days to discover that FIA can’t be trusted
From what was published from yesterday hearing it was logical that FIA will make just a easy escape from all crap which was produced …
And now my logical question is: what exactly FIA do for Formula 1 ?
“The FIA has been dedicated to representing the rights of motoring organisations and motor car users throughout the world via campaigns and activities that defend their interests. On issues such as safety, mobility, the environment and consumer law the FIA actively promotes the interests of motorists at the United Nations, within the European Union and through other international bodies.
The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship and FIA World Touring Car Championship.”
So far FIA make some real good things for safety …
But we have total mess of rules and regulations…
so did Formula 1 really need FIA ?
What an extraordinary waste of time.. how can it be either justice or not when the appeal itself is rejected - which surely could have been decided without the necessity of FIA and Ferrari lawyers cross examining Hamilton and McLaren playing tapes etc.. Just when you think it’s can’t get anymore embarrassing for FIA they pull another blinder.. I’m not generally one for conspiracy theories or partizan team feelings but have got to say there feels like an agenda down at FIA..
I’m not really surprised that the FIA took the easy route of declaring the appeal inadmissible. Are they going to bother to explain how this 25 second penalty is different from Liuzzi’s 25 second penalty in 2007, which explicitly was admissible?
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/court_appeal/judgments/Documents/12-10-2007-ica-ToroRosso-a.pdf [see paragraph 3 on page 3]
Awful but not surprising. What an absolute joke F1 appears to be now.
I’ve spoken to a few people who don’t know anything about F1 or the rules, but from what they’ve seen in the newspapers etc over the last few weeks, they have come to the obvious conclusion that:
a. F1 rules and governance are in a mess and not at all clear
b. the FiA have got in in for Lewis Hamilton big time
c. is it because he is black?
Sorry, that is the impression my friends have - actually that seems very much to be the truth also.
The best way to reduce costs in F1, Max?
Stop holding farcical court cases…
Well I never…
The FIA is nothing if not predictable.
The one light of integrity, Charlie Whiting, is sadly dimmed as far as I am concerned.
Awful but not surprising. F1 is now officially a joke.
I’ve been talking to friends recently about this case who don’t know anything about F1, but have been reading about the case. They have come to the conclusion that
a. F1 rules and governance are in a mess and totally unclear
b. the FiA have it in for Lewis Hamilton big time
c. is it because he is black?
Well that is the impression they get about F1, and I suppose it’s true as far as I can see, as someone who knows a lot more about it than them. The awful impression is the actuality.
F1X
Typical FIA corruption. They listen to the appeal and decided that on the facts McLaren had a case so they then find a loophole to say the appeal is inadmissable. It is absolutely beyond reason to suggest a penalty can be issued 2 hours after a race and cannot be appealed. The reason drive throughs can’t be appealed is because they have to be served within three laps and after that you can’t turn back time.
You would think that the fact that Charlie Whiting was shown to be a liar when he tried to prove there was no precedent and that in the end his actions shows there was a precedent would be enough to make the appeal admissable. But I guess Tonio Liuzzi wasn’t racing a Ferrari therefore it doesn’t count as precedent.
How can these people have the nerve to go out in public when they have been proven to be cheats and liars?
Well, I never saw that one coming!!!
Why did they take so long to come to the conclusion that it was inadmissible?
Makes you wonder what goes on in the minds of some people
Wrong decision!
He won fair, and gave the (slight) advantage gained back, overtook and won!
I still think if it had been a ferrari that hamilton was driving the penalty would not have been applied.
No surprise there, but it looks like Whiting’s reputation will take a bit of a beating. The FIA has been caught in a blatant and childish l lie, and still rule against McLaren. Typical. If Lewis loses the championship this year, Massa should have an asterisk next to his name in the record books.
Well in twenty years i won’t remember the 2008 Spa grand prix for its thrilling last laps, but for its redicule, pathetic decision to disqualify a talented drive and an appeal which was dismissed because they said it was inadmissable.
Anyone else, what will you remember this race for?
not surprised. its easy to win the championship if the judges are on your side, isn’t it ferrari?
Very suprised
I thought McLaren were very brave to appeal!!!
From past FIAT (uuups) FIA rulings it was more likely that the decission be upheld and McLaren and Lewis would be given a four race ban.
Surely this would have been a more typical??? Perhaps the FIA are trying to clean up their act!!!
oh dear, as expected really.
The one issue that im not sure about is that IF the stewards said at the time it was a legitimate pass to Martin Whitmarsh then surely they wouldnt have given him a drive thru penalty? And if thats the case the retrospective punsihment cannot be a drive thru, only a fine???
Or is it not the same people who decide? In which case Whitmarsh was asking the wrong people for verification. That does sound unlikely.
I dont think its a fit up but im equally sure that some people at the FIA dont like Maclaren, and especially dont like ROn Dennis. something to do with class probably.
Although I am, and always was, in favour of Hamilton’s punishment: - this is the worst possible verdict for the appeal’s panel to deliver.
A firm “he didn’t give the place back properly, and was right to be punished” or “the stewards got it wrong” would have ended the matter once and for all. As it is we’re left with no ruling on the legality of the move, and a simple “we’re always right.” to console ourselves.
Now, we’re likely to have this debate raging for the rest of the season, and if Hamilton loses we won’t hear the end of it for long after.
Well that was predictable wasn’t it. The FIA doesn’t care if appears biased any more, what an utter disgrace. Please, please, please someone start a break away formula soon so we can be rid of this corrupt old boys club once and for all.
Yes, I have to admit, Old Charlie now doesn’t deserve any goodwill from the fans or the teams, and every FIA judgement should be questioned from now on, as with any Steward’s decisions - appeal away gentlemen! Lets tie them up in court time and waste their money!
I agree, the question now is, is the FIA anti-Hamilton, and why? Or is it anti-Ron, and why? Or is it generally anti-McLaren, and why?
Ron/Bernie/Max/Charlie go way back to Brabham and even before, so is this over some feud from back then that still has be settled? I hope not! It seems farcical if this is Ferrari still getting their own back over ‘Stepney-gate’! Who, if my judgement is correct, will be working for Honda next year anyway….
Not surprising, but still crushingly disappointing (and I’m not mad keen on Hamilton) but sportsmanship and racing is the loser today.
What fresh controversy will they artificially manufacture next year to hand the championship to Ferrari?
Did anyone expect fairness from Ferrari International Assisstance.
Martin Whitmarsh: “We are naturally disappointed with today’s verdict, and to have received no ruling on the substance of our appeal“
can anyone explain to me, im obviously not quick enough , why Ferrari had lawyers representing them at Hamiltons appeal? Surely it was a straight fia vs mclaren? ?
On the bright side, for those of us who dont think Lewis is the anti christ because hes not humble enough, if he does win the championship he cant be accused of winning it in the courts. Massa on the other hand…..
I’m with Kris @20 The result was correct but the basis was not.
Just so I don’t get smashed up by you guys I have finally found a link to a report that does a much better job of clarifying my opinion than I have tried to do in the past, as follows:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7631230.stm
So on to what should be a great weekend of F1 in Singapore. Come on guys get over it, no doubt Lewis will be better for this experience and lets hope moves are made by the officials to avoid this debacle happening again. My advice is, employ full time stewards or even better a rotating set of three from each team. Get rid of the option to appeal and provide the teams with a clear set of rules. Sounds too easy I guess!
Not surprising, but still disappointing all the same.
I’ve not subscribed to FIA/Ferrari conspiracy theories before, but the FIA have publicly bent every rule in the book on this case. And I’m no mad fan for Hamilton, but I’d like to see what the Italian or Spanish reaction is. Because the loser today was not Hamilton or McLaren, the loser today was racing and everyone who supports that.
Why did they not just say immediately that this could not be appealed instead of costing everyone concerned thousands of pounds?
This is pathetic. The only think that can save the sport I love so much is for the FIA to be replaced, or at least all those running it be replaced by people who are less corrupt and know what they are talking about. We also need professional stewards and not part time muppets!
The number of people I know that now refuse to watch F1 ever again is crazy. Can they not see what damage they are doing to the sport?
I spent £500 on tickets to this years British GP and I have spent the same on next year’s race. I am seriously thinking of ringing the Silverstone box office and asking for my money back. What is the use of spending so much money when the championship is fixed by the FIA?
Hmm, once again the FIA make a bad decision concerning F1. Does anybody else feel that this is playing into Bernies hands a little too easily?
And why are McLaren being made the scapegoat for some political juggelry by Bernie and Max (and Jean and Old Charlie?).
Watch this space very, very carefully!
JUSTICE FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!for all that crap HAM told to FERRARI lawyer “Answering one of Tozzi’s questions, Hamilton had said: “Are you a racing driver? No. I have been a racing driver since I was eight years old and I know pretty much every single manoeuvre in the book, and that’s why I’m the best at my job:
Good for the sport
what a crock….
I have followed F1 for 35-odd years, as part of the generation that grew up watching Fittipaldi, Lauda and Hunt in the 70s and spent decades absorbed with Senna vs. Prost, Mika vs. Michael and so on, “warts and all” as far as FIA/ FISA decisions are concerned going all the way back to some very dodgy events in 1976.
A few years ago, even as late as the Alonso/ Monza and mass damper debacles in 2006, a “verdict” like this would have been accompanied by email and phone chatter with my friends and family, the outcome eagerly awaited, the ins and outs discussed with keen interest. Our collective verdict these last 10 or 15 years - that the FIA is as bent as it can be - would almost always be the same, as was the mounting frustration, but the interest was there, as was the faint hope that the thing would somehow right itself.
Now? Exactly nothing. Nobody I know has had anything to say about F1 any more, nor I to them. Spa came and went, all without a single comment or opinion or line in an email - not a single line. For what is there to say? Just the annual pound of flesh extracted by whatever means necessary, and utter contempt for ideas like racing, fairness, sport, transparency and any respect whatsoever for our intellect.
For me, this deafening silence says as much as any expressions of outrage and disgust on these boards about the events (of which I have also bothered to post almost nothing). Perhaps it is true that for every old fan who just gives up and stops watching (I can name at least a dozen of my acquaintance, sadly), ten new innocents come on board (after all, China alone has a billion would-be new fans capable of switching on the TV and buying the products) but a clearer betrayal of the trust of an audience, and nuclear winter of disinterest, I have yet to see.
It’s always pointless to declare “that’s it, I will never watch F1 again!!” (accompanied by gleeful calls of “good riddance” from fans of the beneficiary team), all too melodramatic really, and I may, if the lawn doesn’t need mowing or a drain unblocking, put on the TV or otherwise follow up on the outcome, just to see if the delicious spectacle of seeing the cabal beaten anyway (as was indeed the case in 2006) might make it all seem OK again for a short while. But I have long boycotted products sold through F1 (to name one example I have gone out of my way to avoid buying Bridgestone tyres for a decade and will never do so again), for this reason alone, and I have long given up arguing with Nascar fans about racing purity (how can I, in all honesty?). For a type of fan like me, we are essentially done regardless of whether we make melodramatic declarations or not, as we leave.
In the final analysis, it’s all nothing but sad, really. Just a terrible shame and rather a waste. Someone made an analogy about racing fans and battered and abused wives and I think it’s quite apt, we just quietly give up inside and look for ways to move on.
So the FIA says that a drive through penalty is not reviewable even when its not a drive through penalty. As many have pointed out here, the reason a drive through is not appealable is because there is no possible remedy after the race is done. A time penalty imposed after the race is the ideal example of a remediable error.
In any event the rules only state that a drive through is not “susceptible” to appeal. This ruling goes against the letter of the rules, it goes against precedent both on the merits and on procedure, and it defies all logic.
Dont worry guys ..HAM will win this CHAMP as it is goin to rain in all the races..MASSA will be out in atleast two…CHEER UP
Madurai - I’m not a ‘HAM’ fan but surely he did have a point to demonstrate to the the Ferrari lawyer that there is a difference between a desk-job and being a racing driver?
saravanan, what sport? The FIA has seen to it that F1 can no longer be characterized as one.
Sorry, I posted the same thing twice because of the slowness of the site.
Alex..It cannot be argued that way.It is also not practical..when ever an attorney questions a convict it is not that he has to know about job the convict does..He just follows the rule book…If u break it u r in soup….It also shows how aggressive HAM is …The fame has gone to his head…
Madurai, I fear your hatred of Lewis is blinding you to rationality.
I for one thought the penalty handed out to Hamilton in Spa was ok, but this “judgement” of the FIA is purely ridiculous and a shame. Rejecting the appeal on formal grounds AFTER the hearings and debates, this is a farce. I don’t belive in the FIA’s Ferrari-bias - although Tozzi’s role is really quite obscure in this case, to say the least - but now I’m absolutely convinced about the organization’s and its officials’ utter incompetence.
SEAN
very sad, and although it probably does say more about you than the sport (this sort of thing has always gone on, come on!) i do agree with you, in part. However this chat board is not deathly silent and Lewis (love or loathe him) has generated more interest since the hayday of Prost, Senna, Mansell.
Ive been watching F1 since 78 (age 7) and basically you watch it with awe and only know the race, in your teens you read a bit of press and in your 20’s you might even go to the odd race, in your 30’s you get a bit anoraky about it until bang, something lets you down. For my dad it was Jim Clark dying, for me it was Coulthard expressing glee that he could nail the throttle on a corner and the electronics would make sure he didnt spin.
This FIA ruling is as nothing compared to them, it is a bump on tambarello made huge because of the protaganist.
To all intents and purposes F1 died the day Colin Chapman put a cigarette logo on his car and you are right we are like battered wives, going back for more, hoping it’ll now be different and like a battered wife, we have nowhere else to go.
Sooperpigdog….It all that happens..eg FOOTBALL.It is decision of refree given on the spot.u cant even appeal.
Atleast in F1 u hav that
F%$#CK FIA !I AM DISGUSTED!!!NO MORE, STOP THIS FARCE!!!
mudarai
“convict” - hes a criminal now is he?
and er duh! did you think Lewis got to the pinnacle of f1 by being a wall flower. some people. “its gone to his head” “he raised his voice” “the arrogance, how dare he” deary deary me. where do you live? the 1880’s?
oh btw im not a “ham ” fan- just a bemused fan
The FIA are the Judge, Jury and Executioner - What other outcome could have possibly come of this? This cannot be a fair way to run a Multi Million Pound business.
Got to hand it to the FIA - Reading their press release on the court ruling their case was solid with the 3 different types of penalties they can give out and if their was ground for an appeal if it was a drive through. Why then, did they allow it to get this far if they knew their own laws!?!
What has come out in the wash is some more dirt that has been thrown at the FIA especially with crazy antics with Tony Scott Andrews. Seems they are officially prepared to lie to win their battle with Mclaren.
c. is it because he is black?
no it’s because he’s not red.
Maduri, where have you been? Have you not been listening to Schumacher, Alonso, or Kimi, or Massa (or even Massa’s engineer). All the drivers behave like this, they are the top of the class, they are unbeatable. The press tells them, their manager tells them, their boss tells them. Why should they not believe it? They wouldn’t be in that car if they weren’t that good.
And other top professional sportsmen believe it too - footballers, basketball players, cricketers, snooker players, even golfers, its part of sport….
They are where they are because they are good enough to be there, and we aren’t!
This decision was obviously coming: the intriguing bit is why they let everyone present their cases and expose the murky depths of collusion between FIA and Ferrari. Deliberately and blatantly misrepresenting the opinion of a former official in the process. Really, at this point you have to question why the other teams allow this to continue (answer: money, money and more money). Nice spectacle all round.
At least if Lewis wins the WDC, his detractors won’t be able to say it was undeserved. Well unless FIA invents something else of course.
So I think the only way for Massa will become a genuine WDC is with six points ahead LH
What a hell. So everybody goes around saying that they are the best in the sport and that their rivals don’t have the balls or they don’t have the skills to keep him behind…and so on? DG, I have seem LH - the super smug big mouth - saying these kind of things time and time again. Can you point out to me any article, webpage, tv interview, or any other media in which any of the other driver in the grid has been behaving like that? Please come up with specifics. LH is a good driver but he has such a big mouth that I hope he never wins any title in his F1 career (a sort of second Stirling Moss). That would fit him well.
Ferrari sent lawyers to the appeal because their Janitor couldn’t go. Seriously now, who would you have had them send?
what….has….it….to….do……with……ferrari?
capiech??
Sick of people saying that if this had been Ferrari, they’d have gotten away with it. The very notion of “getting away with it” says that you’ve done something wrong in the first place.
Still, it’s a bad penalty. An overhaul of the steward system seems the best way to go. I’d recommend a system whereby there’s a representative from every team who decides on these things. But then, I suppose that doesn’t really make sense, does it?
this is just soooo wrong. and soooo predictable.
my only surprise is they didn’t apply a further penalty.
Saravanan, at least in football, during the game, the ref’s is the one in charge…What do we have in F1?? um charlie whiting… um stewards….. it’s anybodys guess cos the wont clarify it..
I am not a racer , but i love racing . Hamilton got what he deserves , he gained an advantage during the race and he just lost it afterwards ….and forever ..as simple as that …
As a fan of this sport , i believe the FIA acted in this matter is just not biased. They made the right decision . You cant compare 2006 suzuka incident with this , and it is clear that Hamilton did gain an advantage. Lewis did try to gain advantage like this and got penalties before, this year itself . I am so happy now
Why can the teams not have a direct radio link to the stewards, seeing as they’re the ones who are making the decisions?
Having a radio link between the teams and Charlie is just useless, seeing as clearly all he is there to do is push the ‘go’ button come 2pm, and according to the FIA has no right to give opinions on anything regarding what happens in the race.
Seems as if the FIA needs a drastic surplus staff cull as well as a reigime change.
antonyob,
Exactly my question!
was this not a straight FIA vs McLaren issue?
Why were Ferrari lawyers even present?
well, that’s it for me!
K!$$ MY GR!T$ FIA (pardon my French!)
man, I haven’t been this ticked off since GeeDubya got re-elected
Keith: Is there a sort of pro-Lewis moderation going on?
The one thing that I’m happy about is that even those who think Hamilton deserved his penalty agree that this ruling is a joke. If everyone finally agrees that the sport is at worst corrupt, and at best mismanaged, then perhaps change will become a genuine possibility.
Antifia,
If your post was removed, you would be absolutely wild about it. Your post #59 leads me to believe that one of your post was removed (or was posted late).
If you can argue for your right (that your commends should be posted), so does HAM for getting his win. Yes. RAI did not have the balls to race nice in the rain (evident from his lap times and the crash). And he was well within his right to say what he said.
Chill out.
Is Max Mosely a Racist?
I would like to ask him. And I wonder if this has baring on his views and how he “runs” the FIA. Before you shout me down, hear me out.
We know Max treats women as slabs of meat to be screwed by his friends at Gang Bang parties. So much for womens liberation.
We also know his father was Oswold Mosely, a famous Racist Fascist here in the UK. It is also known that Max used to be in politics, as a member of a known racist and fascist party.
Is Max a racist? What are his views on Blacks entering F1?
Is Max determined that a black man will NOT win the WDC? Is that what all this is about?
.
Great decision!
Guys as it says on the article there is a delay in comments appearing because of the high amount of activity on the site.
Aside from that a couple of comments have been deleted for breaking the terms of the comment policy: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/credits-and-contacts/f1-fanatic-comment-policy/
Antifia I don’t believe any of your comments have been deleted. If you think one has then contact me via the contact form: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/credits-and-contacts/contact-f1fanatic
Indeed a sad day for Formula 1 and the many fans around the world, from the grizzly veterans who have been following the sport for 20+ years, down to the rookies such as myself.
I was upset with the penalty in the first place, and for as much as I wanted it to be overturned, I diden’t expect anything different today. While fans such as myself will never stop watching the action on the track, the FIA is indeed doing a great job of mucking up the sport to the extent that we can no longer expect a championship battle that is decided entirely on the track, rather than in courtrooms in Paris, as has been the case the last two seasons.
To hell with the FIA
long live this post
David, breaking news, the FiA will never let Lewis win. They are effectively saying to him, know your place. We could be back in 1930s deep South of America. He is too uppity by far, for the FiA, for some fans you see writing on this forum and other F1 forums.
For all the little black boys watching Lewis’ amazing career and who are inspired; that instead of crime, if you work hard and are determined enough, you can reach the pinnacle of your profession, this sort of thing will make them think there is no point at all, because “the man” won’t allow it!
This year, with the Max Mosley-sadomasichistic-Nazi-sex-orgy mock trial, and now this, the FIA has certainly proven their point: they operate on their own terms, doing what they want, when they want no matter the public outcry or any case made against them. They’ve made it very clear that they are bigger than anyone.
Jason, no. 48, very funny and true.
Antifia, for one, Heikki said “I’m better than him” of Lewis. I bet you didn’t know that because no-one picks and analyses comments from any other driver more than Lewis Hamilton. Can you IMAGINE if Lewis said “I’m better than Heikki”? I think the sky would fall in from the outcry.
I wonder…
If Massa had one at Monza and Hamilton failed to score points, would the decision go the other way for the sake of keeping the championship close?
Nah, probably not, its was a Mclaren…
PS. Sorry if someone already mentioned that, I haven’t had a change to go through all the comments, stupid work!
Guys I really enjoy reading these posts, but time and time again too many seem to go off at a tangent unnecessarily…. Racist references to US Deep South, Nazi connotations etc.
The fact is that most of Lewis CURRENT peers agree with the penalty but recognise it was harsh (mainly because incident occurred in the last 5 laps) . But it is the way it goes.
The vast majority of support for Lewis from within the sport has come from HISTORICAL drivers, who were in their hay day 2 if not 3 decades ago. Is their opinion relevant in todays racing? ……… i.e rules as they are now, familiarity with cars, understanding of what is an advantage in current racing conditions. ( I am not knocking them for what they have done, but questioning the validity of their comments)
At the end of the day I am a sales director within a software company and have done well at it, in 20 years time will by thoughts and opinions be as relevant when I have not been in the hot seat of any sales activity…. I very much doubt it.
Anoymouse, why should you be shouted down? Max Mosley’s father was a fascist who admired Hitler. FACT. Max Mosley always defended his father’s views. FACT. Max Mosley has been known to say he is against immigration into Britain. FACT. Max Mosley has been known to say he against mixed marriages between different races. FACT. Max Mosley is the president of the FiA. FACT.
You can’t be shouted down for stating well known facts.
Put 2 and 2 together and you get FOUR. FACT.
Today is another sad day in the chapter of the FIA. I Really hope Lewis wins the championship this year,and then leaves F1. It’s not worth all this hassle.
why bother
The verdict is really disappointing but not surprising. I sincerely hope that no other factors are involved as it will surely be a sad day for F1. Like others have said, lets move on and hopefully Lewis will blow them away with a stunning performance in Singapore.Ciao
Hey All !
I do have my on vision on this incident, but i wonder how loud would this shout for JUSTICE on all these comments be if the appeal was on apposite way. Massa appealing against FIA over Hamilton.
I sincerelly would like to know your way of fairness. Would all of you shout this loud for Massa ?
PS: I’m a Kimi fan though.(just for the record).
For all of you adding “great outcome or great result” would you really be saying this if it wasn’t Lewis Hamilton. It wasn’t a good result it was a travesty!!
The FIA did not have the cajones to make a clear judgement on the facts so hid behind a technicality that leaves this open to debate for ever.
F1 should be carried out on the race track and this situation should have never tarnished one of the most exciting races in history.
If Massa does win this year, and by the margin within the inherited points, there will be even more FIA favours Ferrari.
Yes really great outcome.
Well done FIA you really have balls of steel!!!
Even though I am a Ferrari fan, i hate the way the sport is running for a past couple of seasons! A sad day for sure.
Let’s just hope that the credit crunch hits F1 big time forcing the collapse of the sport.
Then the teams can start up a new formula, totaly independant of the FIA and give us racing fans what we want - motor racing.
I am sick of seeing teams, especially McLaren, having to go to court, I’m not interested in the politics or the people behind the scenes, I just want to watch some exciting racing.
This is now next to impossible as Max Mosely is a liar and a fraud who is determined to destroy Ron Dennis and his McLaren team.
It is bad enough that he’s a Nazi sympathiser (this has been proved many times so no need to moderate) but does he really have to destroy the sport we all love ?
The only reason for a race result to be overturned is if a car fails post-race scrutineering, any and all racing incidents should be dealt with in the race, even if you have to black flag someone on the last corner of the last lap.
Anything else is unacceptable.
regardless of the decision it is time for Bernie to pull the plug and set up an alternative to F1. He doesn’t need the FIA and coudl easily get support for it, he has the money after all.
Why oh why are these farcical events brought in to a sport when simple, clear governance would solve this.
Captain Caveman, the current F1 drivers are scoundrels in my opinion (well the ones who have come out in support of the penalty are anyway). They stated confidently that they knew that Lewis should have waited, but none of them seemed to know this “next corner rule” (oh, except Nico who said he knew of it). DC said in his ITV column that the next corner rule was “a new rule”, so who is telling the truth here? They are shameless!
Fergus Gallus, fans don’t need to fight Massa’s corner - he has Max Mosley and the FiA doing that.
To the McDonalds Theme (Bad ba bap ba ba ..AM LOVING IT!!!)
The comments are very good, entertaining…the title race is on!!