Comments on: F1′s unwritten rules: team orders edition

By: guille2306

guille2306 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 19:34:15 +0000

I agree with all of you that think that team orders have nothing wrong: if you run a team, you work like a team, not as two separate independent half-teams... I would like to comment on a local case: in the most important tourism car championship in Argentina (TC2000), with two races to go it is a very close fight between the official Honda (Civic) and Renault (Megane) teams. Off course, team 'strategies' are at the order of the day, with the slight tweak that Honda lines up 8 cars (4 of them official) and Renault only 2... In the words of one of the managers of Renault: "Team play is normal in races, but we have to see which are the limits. Some teams have abused [he refers here to the last race]. I hope that the stewards will analyze well the maneuvers and they will be coherent. They should say until where strange decisions are allowed. Honda has almost eight cars to fight the title, but we knew that from the beginning. We are conscious of that disadvantage."

By: DG

DG — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 07:40:30 +0000

Mmmmmmm, if you don’t want team orders don’t race as a team. There are two cars and two drivers, either they support each other (which is usual) or they don’t (which is not so usual). So, if the whole team is supporting the stronger driver (or the preferred driver), that must include the other driver surely? Thats so obvious even Bernie couldn’t argue against it.
When the drivers are at each others throats on and off the track, then, yes, lets see them racing each other properly. But if you think about it the rest of the team still has orders to allow them to do it!
As for the holding up the opposition, thats been going on for so long it doesn’t count as any more than ‘racemanship’.
If F1 wasn’t a team sport, we would have separate Pit Boxes for the cars so that they could be run independantly (as they are in NASCAR). And that would allow for different sponsors/colours on each car and no team orders whatsoever. I’m surprised Bernie hasn’t seen that one yet!

By: Alianora La Canta

Alianora La Canta — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:22:20 +0000

Teams can’t cut engines or stick up false warning lights from the pits because that would require two-way electronic communication between driver and pit, and since 2003 only radio contact is allowed to be like that. However, there’s nothing to prevent a false pit-stop from being called, or a radio message to the effect that the telemetry had picked up a problem and could the driver please slow down a bit/not go over X rpm/stop and thump the engine cover three times to sort it out?

By: ZappBrannigan

ZappBrannigan — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 09:34:50 +0000

Chalky said:

However, I have wondered what influence the team could have over a uncooperative team-mate. Can they electronically cut the engine from the pits? Or maybe stick up a false warning light for the driver?

Well actually this something Alonso complained about last year at McLaren. He insisted the team wouldn’t cooperte with him because they internally favored Hamilton. To make sure he, Hamilton, has an advantage they would give him “Alonso” tires with wrong pressure. However, as mentioned before it is hard to envisage why a team would dare to do something like this. It obviously cuts down the chances to get best positions for both cars and the best result for the team. Even if the drivers championship is a neat thing every team would like to win it’s the Constructors Championship which is the most important championship for the team.

By: Senor Paz

Senor Paz — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 00:18:00 +0000

Like any other great sport, F1 has a long history of controversy and claims of injustice towards particular teams or drivers. That is because there are written rules (that can be changed if deemed inappropriate for whatever reason) and a sea of competitors trying to get away with as much as they can.

Controversy is not an essential ingredient for a sport, but a crucial byproduct. There is no sport without rules, and there are no rules without controversy. That is the same with any sport, whether its referees have access to video footage before making a decision (F1, Cricket, now even Tennis) or not (Football, Basketball, etc).

The point is that, from the audience’s perspective, complaining about whatever decisions get made by the refs is pointless. Individual competitors/teams that feel prejudiced by any decision can, and should, appeal. But this is why I write this post:

Great competitors in any sport are those that can find the line that separates punishment from reward. This means taking well assessed risks consistently, being conservative when appropriate and even going all out when absolutely necessary.

And that is why, plain and simple, Felipe has been the best driver this season so far.

By: beneboy

beneboy — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:09:29 +0000

I’ve never had much of a problem with team orders.

If your team mate is fighting for the championship and you’re out of the fight then it is perfectly acceptable for you to let him past you and to do your best to hold up his championship rivals, as long as you don’t purposely run them off the track.

One of the limitations of team orders should be the point in the season that they occur.
The galling thing about Schumi & Rubens in Austria was that it was so early on in the season, the championship had loads of races left for Schumi to win.
In circumstances like that I, as a Ferrari fan, wanted to see Rubens get a win, he deserved it both for his driving on the day and for the service he gave to the team.

Once it’s down to the last few races though, almost anything goes and it’s your responsibility as a team mate to help your team win the championships.

By: ron

ron — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 11:24:20 +0000

To the Limit,

i like your attitude, I hope we see all out war between ferrari and McLaren, all four of them. no restrictions…. well other than that measily rule of course.

By: the limit

the limit — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 02:06:33 +0000

Obviously team orders are going to play a factor, and for me, Raikkonen is going to be the biggest threat to McLaren for several reasons. The main one is that he is far more consistent than Kovalainen, who to be honest, has disappointed me this season. Raikkonen has made mistakes, but he has had the pressure of being the defending world champion, something very few people get to experience.
Now that that pressure has been relieved of Raikkonen, I believe he is going to show real pace in the next trio of races left, something that is going to be crucial to Massa.
Also not lost on Raikkonen or on his team, is the role Massa played in Brazil last year in helping Kimi clinch the championship. Massa was in Kimi’s shoes a year ago, having been eliminated from the title race, and seriously hampered the McLarens at the start of the race, to enable Raikkonen to pass Hamilton into turn one. Something simular to this, I expect to see from the Finn in the next three rounds.
Thirdly, there is the revenge factor. Hamilton maywell have lost his victory at Spa in the courts, but Raikkonen lost his championship defence during the closing stages of that race, fighting Lewis. By the ferocity of that battle, you could tell that there was no love lost. The Canadian race, inwhich Hamilton rearended Kimi, costing him a possible victory, will no doubt linger in Raikkonen’s mind.
I don’t care how cool and carm he may appear outside of the car, a competitive person does not forget moments like those easily.
Kovalainen, as promising a driver as he is, lacks the crucial experience that only time can provide. So in the sense of having an edge concerning possible team orders and tactics, then I would easily give that to Ferrari

By: GeorgeK

GeorgeK — Sat, 04 Oct 2008 01:34:53 +0000

“Hamilton has had Heikki pull right over and qualify near the back for him.”

Now that scenario is unrealistic because in spite of any team orders each team tries to qualify both cars as close to the front as possible, because there is always the constructor’s crown to fight for. Every point counts.

How would you explain Kimi’s failures at qualifying this year? Team orders as well? I don’t think so. Team orders usually come into play relative to championships, and usually later in the season….unless it’s a Schumi led Ferrari squad.

And as I offered earlier, I don’t have a problem with that either, but a bit of discretion by the team and a lot less bawling from Rubens on the podium would have made it more palatable by the fans.

By: Nick

Nick — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 23:10:49 +0000

Massa did not pull over for Kimi, Kimi got himself past Hamilton and then put in quite fast laps to leapfrog Felipe Massa.

Hamilton has had Heikki pull right over and qualify near the back for him.