Red Bull buys back Toro Rosso – does it want STR’s Ferrari engines?
25th November 2008, 21:03 by Keith Collantine 29 Comments »
What does Red Bull have planned for its two F1 teams in 2009?
Red Bull is once again the 100% owner of Toro Rosso having bought back the 50% stake it sold to Gerhard Berger two years ago.
Given the economic climate any such move is likely to be read as significant, but what are the reasons for this decision by Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz?
Here are a few ideas I have on why Red Bull have taken total control over Toro Rosso.
Engines
Toro Rosso became the first Red Bull-backed team to win a race this year, which must have caused its big brother some embarrassment.
There were several elements to the team’s improvement in performance over the course of the year but a clear part of that was the Ferrari engine upgrade it acquired before the European Grand Prix.
Next year Toro Rosso are likely to have some combination of untested or unproven drivers in the car – whether they’re Sebastien Bourdais, Sebastien Buemi or Takuma Sato.
Surely it would make sense, then, for it to put the better engines in the cars with the more highly-rated driver pairing of Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel? And perhaps the only way they do that within the terms of their arrangements with Ferrari and (Red Bull engine supplier) Renault is to take over Toro Rosso.
That said, there has been talk over the winter of engine specifications being equalised next year. If that is going to happen, this need not be the reason for the takeover.
Alternatively, with Force India relinquishing its Ferrari engine supply to take Mercedes units, perhaps Red Bull intends to make both its teams Ferrari-powered?
Personnel
Dietrich Mateschitz (left) has bought back his stake from Gerhard Berger (right)
Whichever way you look at it, Toro Rosso beat Red Bull with a design that Red Bull had quite a bit more experience of.
Toro Rosso only got their hands on the new car in time for the Monaco Grand Prix, at which point they trailled Red Bull by ten points to two in the constructors’ championship. By the end of the year Toro Rosso were on top 39-29.
So does Red Bull want to poach the cream of Toro Rosso’s staff, who arguably did a better dob of making the RB4/STR3 a winner? Could Vettel unlock his potential more quickly in 2009 if he has a few more of his Toro Rosso cohorts close at hand? The importance of having Vettel hit the ground running grew this past week as an injury incurred in a charity race forced Webber out of pre-season testing.
Consolidation
Red Bull’s finances are healthy and it is eyeing brand growth in several markets where F1 is active, as Grandprix.com explains. But faced with such unprecedented financial turmoil, can any company afford to ignore the potential to cut costs?
Following the example set by McLaren and Force India, Red Bull may wish to change the terms of its arrangement with Toro Rosso to reduce its combined running costs.
Would it be too radical to suggest it might even envisage shifting the two teams to a single base, instead of splitting resources between Milton Keynes (Red Bull) and Faenza (Toro Rosso)?
Politics
At the beginning of this year Red Bull was looking for a buyer for its stake in Toro Rosso. Then it decided to keep its share and it became known that Berger was looked for a buyer.
But this was not simply a question of one F1 team’s future in doubt. Had Toro Rosso found itself unable to compete it would have undermined Formula 1 greatly, leaving it with only nine teams and 18 cars. F1 is believed to be contractually obliged to the race promoters to provide grids of at least 20 cars.
Therefore, as with any large transaction in F1, we have good reason to suspect the hand of Bernie Ecclestone was involved somewhere.
What’s your take on Red Bull’s move? Is this good or bad news for Toro Rosso?
More team information: Red Bull Racing, Scuderia Toro Rosso
donwatters said on 25th November 2008, 21:08
F1 conspiracy theorists rejoice! Here’s a situation that is tailor made for you guys. There must be at least 100 ways to disect and speculate about this situation. I can’t wait to read them.
Dane said on 25th November 2008, 21:26
I would be very surprised if Red Bull dont move to Ferrari engines
ceedas said on 25th November 2008, 21:44
I’d be very surprised if Red Bull move to Ferrari engines before 2010 – even if the contract can be bought out, it’s too late for next year now.
Oliver said on 25th November 2008, 22:06
Ceedas, how do you mean its too late? They already have Ferrari engine in the car.
Dank said on 25th November 2008, 22:33
I reckon Berger sold his share due to the fact that he was unwilling to dip into his own pocket to help fund the team during the course of the season. With no sponsorship on the horizon and spiralling costs, things were looking decisively tough.
Which would also explain why Bourdais stated last week that they were looking for drivers with the financial backing rather than the talent.
Wouldn’t surprise me if Mateschitz then sold the team in the near future either.
dynamitejet said on 25th November 2008, 22:47
I like the politics angle, Keith. if this really is the case, and Bernie has to have a grid of at least 20 cars, well this could play very well.
But then… imagine the quandry for BE…
If this to be the case, and B has put his nose in, I would strongly imagine that there is some financial gain for RedBull/ToroRosso – at least as a retainer.
And, and here is the crux: with the other teams supposedly looking to renegotiate their ontracts re F1 profits and the current F1 debt repayment situation, imagine the bargaining powers the other tams would then have…
“Well, you bailed out RedBull/ToroRosso for the sake of the grid… we, as A. N. Other team feel legally obliged to know the details with a view to renegotiating our present (and presence) contract, otherwise our presence (at present) will be lacking from the grid.”
And then, his marriage situation, too – will the divorce settlement have any bearing on F1? If so, things could be looking dire for F1 plc… but possibly quite nicely for the teams.
Just speculation, and I don’t pretend to understand financial things, so I’m probably hugely wrong… and the first to admit to peddling conspiracy theories!
Loki said on 25th November 2008, 23:16
Man, I want Red Bull to have Ferrari engines, because Vettel’s driving for them!
That aside, I really hope Red Bull don’t sacrifice/plunder Torro Rosso completely for their own benefit.
Obster said on 25th November 2008, 23:35
Ferrari giveth factory-spec engines…and ferrari can taketh away factory-spec engines…
Still, it was one of the pleasures of the season to see TR spear forward thru the Toyota-Renault-Red Bull points battle.
Keith Collantine said on 25th November 2008, 23:38
Dank –
Good point – what sponsors is Buemi bringing with him, if he is indeed getting the seat?
booboo said on 26th November 2008, 1:27
Its to late for redbull to have ferrari engines as im sure they would have started to make next years car,and its not as easy as just bolting in a different engine,also consider this,maybe mr Mateschitz has been impressed with mr berger and wants him to run redbull??or is he lining up redbull to sell to a car manufacture, say,,audi??
GST said on 26th November 2008, 2:35
I think that the problem with Red Bull in general is the dithering with the engines.
I think (since Red Bull entered in 2005) that RBR should have stuck with Cosworth engines. In 2005 and the V8 change to 2006 Cosworth were clearly the leading engines of the field.
Granted, although they were an independent engine manufacturer for F1, the new Cosworth V8 engine that Williams used for 2006 was, as Mark Webber said, a class leader particularly at the all important start of the season.
Since both RBR and Toro Rosso ditched Cosworth in favour of Ferrari and Renault engines, both teams have, in terms of engine problems and power, been on a bit of a downward spiral, compared with the relative success and reliability of the 2005 season (even after the takeover of Jaguar).
Cosworth had a great engine in 2006, and if RBR had invested in a long contract with Cosworth (which to my knowledge would have included gearboxes and software, etc) then engine power and development could have been improved and the engine problems (which both Red Bull teams have seen) could have been reduced, and resulted in more – and quicker – success.
tmax said on 26th November 2008, 2:39
Instead of Vettel Moving RedBull. Redbull moved to Vettel. He with Adrian Newey will become a true champion in making with the team surrounding him. I am seeing a team being built around Vettel. Dietrich Mateschitz knows where to put his money. Same in the Schumi style when Ross Brawn moved to Ferrari and a team was built for a champion.
Dane said on 26th November 2008, 2:43
Tmax, you got it spot on. Although Im not sure how long Vettel will be at RBR until he moves on to bigger & better teams
marvin guillen said on 26th November 2008, 3:52
Redbull get Ferrari engines.And don`t forget SATO.
chunter said on 26th November 2008, 4:35
I thought the nature of STR’s problem was that Red Bull were not going to be allowed to own them soon?
Even if they are not customer cars, there will always be the presumption that Red Bull’s data is shared with STR.