Ilmor tipped to win FIA standard engine tender
Ilmor, the British independent race engineering company, is the frontrunner to win the FIA engine tender should F1 become a single engine formula.
F1’s governing body, the FIA, recently opened a tender process, and the main bidders are Ilmor, Cosworth, Mecachrome, Zytek and Judd, the German magazine Auto Motor und Sport revealed.
It is understood that Ilmor, currently involved with the engine supply in America’s Indycar series, has the best chance of winning the tender.
Headed by Mario Illien, Ilmor built engines for Mercedes-Benz’s F1 involvement with McLaren, until the German manufacturer bought that aspect of the business in 2005.
Illien, a Swiss, told Auto Motor und Sport that the ideal engine for an imminent standard formula would be an approximately 3 litre V8 with about a 14,000 rev limit.
“That would give 680 to 700 horse power,” he said, adding that one unit would be reliable for up to six full race weekends.
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Read more: Ferrari and Toyota threaten to quit F1 if Max Mosley forces standard engines
Oh No!
The teams cannot stand back and be dictated to by this autocrat, Mosely.
As time passes it becomes ever more apparent that Moseley is actually serious about this. His premise is rational - reducing costs - but the overall package for F1 won’t achieve this. I assume he thinks the internal combustion component of an F1 car will become less and less important as the tech focus switches to KERS and then thermal energy recovery. The development of these massively increase F1 costs. What Max giveth, he taketh away.
Except what Max obviously doesn’t see is that if he does this the manufaturers will drop out (and hopefully form their own series probably with Bernie’s help - GP1 anybody??) and there’ll be no-one left with the money needed to develop KERS or any other hybrid systems.
Ferrari and BMW are going to love winning races with an engine known for its Mercedes heritage.
LOL, Ferrari and the Bimmers won’t stay in F1 should this nonsens comes to happen.
I seriously think Mosley is completely stupid.
To be honest, I think Mosely lost the plot once in 1998 when he introduced grooved tyres, and then again in 2003 when he decided to ‘attempt’ to cut costs with a radical overhaul in the rules.
Since then, he has tried to cut further costs with either little or no success.
To give a couple examples
The one tyre per race rule - It would have worked, but teams didn’t like the rule.
The introduction of the 2.4 V8’s - What was wrong with the V10 engine? And I reckon, if they had kept using the V10, then we wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place, because surely, developing the V8 would have accelerated the costs.
If Max Moseley were an environmentalist he would say, “Overpopulation is destroying the planet. To prevent humanity being wiped out I’ll kill everyone myself.”
It’s exactly what he’s doing to F1:
1. There’s an economic down turn.
2. Car manufacturers footing the F1 bill won’t pay as much.
3. Moseley decides this can be balanced by reducing the costs of competing.
4. He legislates against the very thing that attracted car manufacturers to F1 in the first place, namely a unique opportunity to promote a brand image of technical and engineering brilliance.
5. Manufacturers won’t pay anything at all.
6. End of F1.
7. Moseley still doesn’t know who set him up with the News of the World.
I don’t think it’d be the end of F1 if the manufacturer’s leave. In fact, there is a case for saying “good riddance”. The problem with spec engines is really that Ferrari would pull out. They would have to. I mean, Ferrari-Ilmor? Ferrari-Cosworth? Ferrari-Mechachrome???!!!! Come on….
A hypothetical: There is a war going on within F1. One side wants the manufacturer’s out forthwith, the other side wants them involved for their money and marketing power (same thing).
One side insists on standard engines to achieve this, the other side regurgitates a medal system that rewards drivers, but also big spenders, delays a new Concorde agreement etc. Standard engines negate manufacturer purposes, medals will practically force an increased spend to get one or three. GP2, F2, all that.
Meanwhile, while no-one’s looking (except the fans), the sport falls off the rim and down the toilet.
R.I.P Prost, Jordan, Minardi, Sauber (the real one) and probably Williams.
Yes, the manufacturers force the cost of competition up, but they also bring immense kudos to the sport. A policy that encouraged them to get out would not be a smart one.
Thing is, Mosley’s got them to agree to €5m engines, so why is he still pushing the standard engine thing? Is he trying to get further compromises out of the manufacturers? Is he not convinced the €5m engines will happen?
There has to be something else going on. It makes no sense to demand, over a number of years, a reasonable customer engine deal from the manufacturers, then when they finally agree, turn around and threaten them with the nadir of their involvement in the sport.
It could be a matter of getting them to put the 5 million plan in writing before he withdraws the tender. But how about shafting the engine manufacturers who have applied in the meantime? It makes no sense to be such a bully if this is the case.
I think up to about two years ago , Illmore were building and supplying McLaren with engines. Seems they have been “bought out” , but the close link is still undeniable. Makes me wonder , with the cars all running McLaren management systems , now McLaren supplying force India chassis as well , taken at an extreme , we could have 20 “McLaren” cars forming the grid of the future ?
The current Honda IndyV8 is 3.5L, around 650 HP and a 10,300 RPM limit. Since Ilmor has so much experience building that thing, I’d expect this proposed engine to be fairly similar.
For anyone who has never watched a IRL race, the engines…sound really boring. Probably because of the relatively low redline, but I wouldn’t expect 14K to sound much better.
Oh, and the Mercedes guys are totally separate (now called Mercedes-Benz HighPerformanceEngines). There could be engineers at Ilmor who worked on the F1 engines, but I kinda doubt it. I suspect that Ilmor’s current role is just to build the IndyV8s, not develop them. Anyone with the skills to have technical familiarity with the Mercedes F1 design wouldn’t be manufacturing engine parts at Ilmor.
I just don’t believe Max when he comes out with his reasoning. Either its his usual playing politics, trying to get more power or something else such as he really does want the manufacturers out of F1.
Constant rule change increase costs not reduce them. I remember a few years back a engine manufacturer said they had to run 3 engine programs at once because of the rule changes, something like V10, V10 2 race and V8 (I can’t remember the exact details).
In reply to comment 7 about who set Max up with the News Of The World I always thought it was because he sued Brundle and The Times, As they are both part of the same newspaper group. By the way what happened with that was it quietly dropped or resolved out of court as I think I missed it.
Jean - if Max is suddenly pro-McLaren, why didn’t he push forward sensible ‘Customer Car’ rules earlier and allow Prodrive in? That would have allowed SuperAguri to stay and maybe have encouraged BMW to have a B Team as well….
I think this is the start of another round of fighting over the F1 deal between FOM and the FIA (or rather Max and Bernie). And they will both say that FOTA is in agreement with them….
I think Toby (Post number eight) may have the answer to this
Max wants the manufacturers out so that the small teams that are left use semi spec-cars and are easier to control (and the racing is cheaper).
Bernie wants to take the manufacturers into a sort of elite series where they compete for Gold, Silver and Bronze.
Not sure if either of these possibilities are very enticing to the mere fan.
Toby - Minardi are still racing, just not in hyper-expensive F1. They are in 3 different series around the world I think - find their website…..
And I think Mr Sauber is still racing too - didn’t he do something for Le Mans or ALMS or similar recently?
Tomorrow is the day (the 28th november2008) when the ‘tenders’ will be announced. Maybe Ferrari will announce theyre not in F1 in 2010 too, i wouldnt blame them. What a shame F1 has come to this but they say there is allways something positive to come out of a bad situation……. I just hope the FOTA stick to their guns (or engines!) and give Max a lesson he wont forget.
I also hope FOTA say none of their teams will participate in 2010 with the same engine and Max realises he cant force his will on the teams and does a U turn and lets teams build their own engines
FIA , just focus on safety issues , ensure engine and chassis regulations are kept within limits , and a budget cap and let the teams do the rest. Makes me sad just thinking about a Cosworth powered Ferrari ….. which already has a McLaren ECU on it
Interesting article on Pitpass at the moment…
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=36652
This suggests that Max drastically needs to reduce costs because with F1 in so much debt, the manufacturers can set up their own series (away from the FIA) if F1 goes into bankruptcy.
Problem with any kind of cost cutting measures is that those with the money just spend it somewhere else.
Look with the 2 race engine rule we saw teams spending on aero ballon, now in 2009 there are more restrictions on aero and testing and windtunnel restrictions coming in 2010. So to gain a competitive advantage the teams (all who can afford it) will spend more money somewhere else on the car to make it go faster.
Suspension, fuel tanks any bit they can legally change will get developed to the nth degree. They should have never moved from the V10’s