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	<title>Comments on: Trulli penalised, Hamilton takes third (Update: Video of Hamilton&#8217;s pass)</title>
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	<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/</link>
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		<title>By: MotoX Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-7/#comment-246592</link>
		<dc:creator>MotoX Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hmmmm. I saw the race and the videos.  I have to agree that the first infraction was when Hami smoked his tires off to about 150mph, to catch and pass Trulli, while he was indeed cooling his tires off via. the grass.  I have watched a lot of F1, and I don&#039;t recall (no shortcuts, Lewis) any over the turf to be a problem.  Then, of course, Trulli later creeps by a stopped (almost?), possible dead again McClaren, at about 30mph.  It was obvious that, of the two events, Hami was the one who tried to gain an unfair advantage on Trulli under the SC.  Trulli was several seconds ahead of Hami in the race, and through the crash seen, past Vettel&#039;s limping trike as SC came up. I can&#039;t beleive the great Lewis would resort to that crap. In any case, it seems the race stewards saw all the video as well. Now I hope Trulli starts using Hami as his own berm, the way Hami did it to Massa, etc, etc. on a few of his great passes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmmm. I saw the race and the videos.  I have to agree that the first infraction was when Hami smoked his tires off to about 150mph, to catch and pass Trulli, while he was indeed cooling his tires off via. the grass.  I have watched a lot of F1, and I don&#8217;t recall (no shortcuts, Lewis) any over the turf to be a problem.  Then, of course, Trulli later creeps by a stopped (almost?), possible dead again McClaren, at about 30mph.  It was obvious that, of the two events, Hami was the one who tried to gain an unfair advantage on Trulli under the SC.  Trulli was several seconds ahead of Hami in the race, and through the crash seen, past Vettel&#8217;s limping trike as SC came up. I can&#8217;t beleive the great Lewis would resort to that crap. In any case, it seems the race stewards saw all the video as well. Now I hope Trulli starts using Hami as his own berm, the way Hami did it to Massa, etc, etc. on a few of his great passes.</p>
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		<title>By: the Sri lankan</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245886</link>
		<dc:creator>the Sri lankan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245886</guid>
		<description>dude i race Karts</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dude i race Karts</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Boyle</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-7/#comment-245846</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Boyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 01:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245846</guid>
		<description>Why did Trulli slide off the track if he was behaving appropriately under SC conditions? 

When Hamilton passed Trulli, Trulli was not on the track 
something Trulli conspicuously did not mention in his 
media statements. The reverse was not true.

I think Mclaren told him to cede because it they got
to bank the 4th place and leave only the increment to 
3rd place in the lap of the FIA stewards. Having been punished so much (unfairly in SPA in my view) they 
are likely pretty paranoid about unclear situations.

That doesn&#039;t mean they think he was wrong, just that they thought there was a chance he could be punished
and wanted to bank what they had.

If Toyota thought Hamilton&#039;s pass on Trulli was legal
as is implicit in Trulli&#039;s description (I had a problem then he had a problem) why didn&#039;t they get very very afraid when Hamilton pulled over and ceded the position but did *NOT* retire.

Mclaren were clearly worried about punishment even though Trulli went off track. Only reason for them to do that. It&#039;s naive in the extreme of Toyota to accept the gift clearly given out of fear punishment, and then not be fearful yourself when the case is even weaker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why did Trulli slide off the track if he was behaving appropriately under SC conditions? </p>
<p>When Hamilton passed Trulli, Trulli was not on the track<br />
something Trulli conspicuously did not mention in his<br />
media statements. The reverse was not true.</p>
<p>I think Mclaren told him to cede because it they got<br />
to bank the 4th place and leave only the increment to<br />
3rd place in the lap of the FIA stewards. Having been punished so much (unfairly in SPA in my view) they<br />
are likely pretty paranoid about unclear situations.</p>
<p>That doesn&#8217;t mean they think he was wrong, just that they thought there was a chance he could be punished<br />
and wanted to bank what they had.</p>
<p>If Toyota thought Hamilton&#8217;s pass on Trulli was legal<br />
as is implicit in Trulli&#8217;s description (I had a problem then he had a problem) why didn&#8217;t they get very very afraid when Hamilton pulled over and ceded the position but did *NOT* retire.</p>
<p>Mclaren were clearly worried about punishment even though Trulli went off track. Only reason for them to do that. It&#8217;s naive in the extreme of Toyota to accept the gift clearly given out of fear punishment, and then not be fearful yourself when the case is even weaker.</p>
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		<title>By: RaceMan</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245832</link>
		<dc:creator>RaceMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:12:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245832</guid>
		<description>Yeah right Peter Boyle, The yellow hit , then the SC about 5 seconds later. I fully understand the two.  Apperently, you have not heard, F1 DOES NOT want the slow loser drivers racing like fools to bunch up together under SC, as this is dangerous to say the least (note, what are you, a NASCAR free pass man?).  This year,  they have implimented strict max speeds, and measure there of  during the SC period.  It is obvious Hamilton was out driven by Trulli to lap 3, and his car (tires) had nothing left.  Under the SC, he charged to catch Trulli.  So then Peter, if Trulli made a mistake, then so to did Hamilton, who then pulled over, when Trulli overtook the 3rd posi back.  How is this any different than his SC pass on Trulli?  Trulli never even slowed, or became beached the way insane Lewis does it after one of his insane passing manuevers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah right Peter Boyle, The yellow hit , then the SC about 5 seconds later. I fully understand the two.  Apperently, you have not heard, F1 DOES NOT want the slow loser drivers racing like fools to bunch up together under SC, as this is dangerous to say the least (note, what are you, a NASCAR free pass man?).  This year,  they have implimented strict max speeds, and measure there of  during the SC period.  It is obvious Hamilton was out driven by Trulli to lap 3, and his car (tires) had nothing left.  Under the SC, he charged to catch Trulli.  So then Peter, if Trulli made a mistake, then so to did Hamilton, who then pulled over, when Trulli overtook the 3rd posi back.  How is this any different than his SC pass on Trulli?  Trulli never even slowed, or became beached the way insane Lewis does it after one of his insane passing manuevers.</p>
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		<title>By: BobVarsha</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245831</link>
		<dc:creator>BobVarsha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 00:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245831</guid>
		<description>O.K., everyone knows I basically hate TOYOTA with a passion, for reasons known only to me; however, it was easy even for my blind self, to see that Lewis Hamilton damn near used his KERS as he put his foot to the wood while passing Trulli, under the SC.  Sure Trulli made a quick off into the grass, but Trulli never even lost any speed, and clearly Hamilton had then gone WAY over the SC speed limit to make this pass, as well as illegally exectuing an overtake maveuver during the SC.  Call this his China revenge.  You can even hear Trulli needing to slam his car to about 15,000 RPM in order to accelrate to match the MP4-24 rocketing off under the SC.  I guess the McClaren is the new piece of junk shassis on the track now, eh Steve?  Anyone who feels Hamilton gained a thrid place under the rules is mistaken.  Why do you think his team, McClaren,  told him to lt Trulli pass? Hopefully Peter will come up and explain it to us blind geezers.  Where was Hamilton in the real race? On the fianl 4th, 3rd laps, as Trulli was dead on Nico and Ruebens, and Hami was smokiong his tires blisters off to stay ahead of Glock and Alonso WAY back?  No wonder Hami has so many F1 driver friends in F1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>O.K., everyone knows I basically hate TOYOTA with a passion, for reasons known only to me; however, it was easy even for my blind self, to see that Lewis Hamilton damn near used his KERS as he put his foot to the wood while passing Trulli, under the SC.  Sure Trulli made a quick off into the grass, but Trulli never even lost any speed, and clearly Hamilton had then gone WAY over the SC speed limit to make this pass, as well as illegally exectuing an overtake maveuver during the SC.  Call this his China revenge.  You can even hear Trulli needing to slam his car to about 15,000 RPM in order to accelrate to match the MP4-24 rocketing off under the SC.  I guess the McClaren is the new piece of junk shassis on the track now, eh Steve?  Anyone who feels Hamilton gained a thrid place under the rules is mistaken.  Why do you think his team, McClaren,  told him to lt Trulli pass? Hopefully Peter will come up and explain it to us blind geezers.  Where was Hamilton in the real race? On the fianl 4th, 3rd laps, as Trulli was dead on Nico and Ruebens, and Hami was smokiong his tires blisters off to stay ahead of Glock and Alonso WAY back?  No wonder Hami has so many F1 driver friends in F1.</p>
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		<title>By: Apostolos</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245741</link>
		<dc:creator>Apostolos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 14:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245741</guid>
		<description>Timo is 4th
http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Timo is 4th<br />
<a href="http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/" rel="nofollow">http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2009/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Peter Boyle</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245693</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Boyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245693</guid>
		<description>Jason,

the reason you cannot appeal some decisions is because if there is a drive
through no-one can possibly know how to undo the effect of a drive 
through after the race. Who knows who might or might not have overtaken
if the driver hadn&#039;t been made to drive through?

For a straight time penalty it is clear and obvious how to undo it. 

Perhaps all penalties should be time and not drive through to make this
clear. But perhaps not as if you are tailing a car under time penalty whether you
try to pass or not is affected by knowing if he has a time penalty that he might
appeal...

This is where the FIA&#039;s anti-Mclaren precedent at SPA last year is now blowing
up on them. They ruled you can&#039;t appeal a time penalty in place of a drive through, simply to make the SPA appeal go away. This ignored the reasons you cannot
appeal a drive through - the &quot;it&#039;s already happened can&#039;t be undone&quot; reason.

In Hamilton&#039;s case in SPA it was very clear how to undo the time penalty, but they
abused the rules to interpret the time penalty as a drive through for the purposes
of appeal legalistics - and despite what Donelly&#039;s predecessor set as precedent and
said in sworn statement (causing Whiting to perjure himself - if FIA sets itself up
as a court, why don&#039;t we use the right terms for it...).

And now they are having to stick by their guns or be caught out in their bias.

It&#039;s all very funny from a warped point of view, and I just feel sorry for Toyota
who have been sucked into the historical Mclaren witch hunt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>the reason you cannot appeal some decisions is because if there is a drive<br />
through no-one can possibly know how to undo the effect of a drive<br />
through after the race. Who knows who might or might not have overtaken<br />
if the driver hadn&#8217;t been made to drive through?</p>
<p>For a straight time penalty it is clear and obvious how to undo it. </p>
<p>Perhaps all penalties should be time and not drive through to make this<br />
clear. But perhaps not as if you are tailing a car under time penalty whether you<br />
try to pass or not is affected by knowing if he has a time penalty that he might<br />
appeal&#8230;</p>
<p>This is where the FIA&#8217;s anti-Mclaren precedent at SPA last year is now blowing<br />
up on them. They ruled you can&#8217;t appeal a time penalty in place of a drive through, simply to make the SPA appeal go away. This ignored the reasons you cannot<br />
appeal a drive through &#8211; the &#8220;it&#8217;s already happened can&#8217;t be undone&#8221; reason.</p>
<p>In Hamilton&#8217;s case in SPA it was very clear how to undo the time penalty, but they<br />
abused the rules to interpret the time penalty as a drive through for the purposes<br />
of appeal legalistics &#8211; and despite what Donelly&#8217;s predecessor set as precedent and<br />
said in sworn statement (causing Whiting to perjure himself &#8211; if FIA sets itself up<br />
as a court, why don&#8217;t we use the right terms for it&#8230;).</p>
<p>And now they are having to stick by their guns or be caught out in their bias.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all very funny from a warped point of view, and I just feel sorry for Toyota<br />
who have been sucked into the historical Mclaren witch hunt.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Boyle</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245692</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Boyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245692</guid>
		<description>&quot;RaceMan&quot; is surprisingly ignorant.

Firstly there&#039;s both yellow flag and S/C conditions. Yellow flag came first.

SC is supposed to bunch up the cars in formation. 

That means later cars have to faster than earlier cars or they won&#039;t bunch!

It is also supposed to be &quot;safe&quot; and people shouldn&#039;t be going off. Trulli robbed
himself, even if the punishment was harsh he made a mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;RaceMan&#8221; is surprisingly ignorant.</p>
<p>Firstly there&#8217;s both yellow flag and S/C conditions. Yellow flag came first.</p>
<p>SC is supposed to bunch up the cars in formation. </p>
<p>That means later cars have to faster than earlier cars or they won&#8217;t bunch!</p>
<p>It is also supposed to be &#8220;safe&#8221; and people shouldn&#8217;t be going off. Trulli robbed<br />
himself, even if the punishment was harsh he made a mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: RaceMan</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245690</link>
		<dc:creator>RaceMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 10:03:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245690</guid>
		<description>Its obvious that none of you has even raced (anything) competitively. I wathced the race. I saw Hamilton (tires gone) being pressured by a parade of GLOCK / Alonso / Rosberg, with Trulli following much closer to Kubica and Vettel. 1.5 seconds after the crash, the video (shown in the post-race press room to Trulli), showed Trulli ALONE pass through the wreck, with no one close behind. The SC light was then on. This is apparently when Hamilton made huge ground on Trulli.  The video BBC / SPEED later showed (claiming it was Trulli), was GLOCK going off/on track, while Alonso and Rosberg followed him. Hamilton was NO WHERE near Trulli at the point of SC deployment, but he somehow made up a lot of track during the SC. What happened to all the speed limit tracking of the cars during SC period? I think Trulli was clearly robbed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its obvious that none of you has even raced (anything) competitively. I wathced the race. I saw Hamilton (tires gone) being pressured by a parade of GLOCK / Alonso / Rosberg, with Trulli following much closer to Kubica and Vettel. 1.5 seconds after the crash, the video (shown in the post-race press room to Trulli), showed Trulli ALONE pass through the wreck, with no one close behind. The SC light was then on. This is apparently when Hamilton made huge ground on Trulli.  The video BBC / SPEED later showed (claiming it was Trulli), was GLOCK going off/on track, while Alonso and Rosberg followed him. Hamilton was NO WHERE near Trulli at the point of SC deployment, but he somehow made up a lot of track during the SC. What happened to all the speed limit tracking of the cars during SC period? I think Trulli was clearly robbed.</p>
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		<title>By: The Sri Lankan Senna</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/03/29/hamilton-promoted-to-third-trulli-dropped-to-12th-but-fourth-would-have-been-fairer/comment-page-6/#comment-245654</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sri Lankan Senna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 06:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=19619#comment-245654</guid>
		<description>i really dont get how the stewards get to bend the rules as the video clearly shows that Truili runs wide and allowed hamilton to gain the 3rd spot under the yellowflag. All this started an ended within the safetycar period. so in other words hamilton should have given the place back and the stewards should have analyzed the situation before giving such a horrible penalty. As a Toyota fan im very disappointed!and hamilton blatently said that he had to give the place back. god  knows if Toyota can reclaim whats rightfully theirs, but i  personally think the stewards should be under the hammer and tried out for damages. their decision ruined what was a dream weekend for Toyota as much as it was for Brawn. everyone forgets that for Brawn it was domination at it&#039;s best, but for Toyota it was a drive of the legends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i really dont get how the stewards get to bend the rules as the video clearly shows that Truili runs wide and allowed hamilton to gain the 3rd spot under the yellowflag. All this started an ended within the safetycar period. so in other words hamilton should have given the place back and the stewards should have analyzed the situation before giving such a horrible penalty. As a Toyota fan im very disappointed!and hamilton blatently said that he had to give the place back. god  knows if Toyota can reclaim whats rightfully theirs, but i  personally think the stewards should be under the hammer and tried out for damages. their decision ruined what was a dream weekend for Toyota as much as it was for Brawn. everyone forgets that for Brawn it was domination at it&#8217;s best, but for Toyota it was a drive of the legends.</p>
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