Hamilton excluded from Australian Grand Prix, Trulli third

2009 Australian Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Lewis Hamilton, McLaren, Melbourne, 2009

Lewis Hamilton has lost his third place in the Australian Grand Prix following a new investigation by the FIA stewards.

Jarno Trulli’s third place has been reinstated. His claim Hamilton had deliberately slowed to let the Toyota driver pass during a safety car period was upheld.

The FIA examined new evidence from McLaren’s radio communications which proved McLaren instructed Hamilton to slow down.

After the race Hamilton and McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh gave conflicting accounts of what happened to reporters: Hamilton claiming he had been told to let Trulli past, Whitmarsh saying Trulli passed Hamilton of his own accord.

Before the appeal Trulli said:

The FIA really got it wrong in that decision. We have all the evidence, including Hamilton’s admission, that I did not overtake him. He let me pass.

More needless controversy

It?s clear McLaren and Hamilton made a mistake by first encouraging Trulli to pass Hamilton on the track, and then not explaining why they had done so to the FIA. They have paid the price for this error of judgement.

But it is equally clear that the both the FIA?s rules and their implementation of them are far from perfect.

Hamilton originally passed Trulli when the Toyota driver went off the track during a safety car period. At that moment McLaren were unsure whether he had broken the rules or not. It later transpired they had not, but given their track record with the FIA stewards it is hardly surprising they were paranoid about making a mistake.

This sort of confusion might once have been resolved straight away with a call to the race director to check the correct running order of the cars. But when McLaren tried this at Spa last year they were incorrectly informed they had not transgressed, and ended up getting penalised

Max Mosley subsequently declared teams should not communicate with the race director on matters like this during the race. This needs to change.

A short message from race control could have informed McLaren and Toyota who was in the right straight away, and cleared up the matter without any fuss. Such calls are commonplace in other racing series, particularly in America, and there is no obvious reason why F1 couldn?t do the same.

Instead we have the same old story of the stewards fiddling with the results after the chequered flag, and F1 spoiling an excellent weekend?s racing by following it with days of needless acrimony.

Update: Full verdict from the stewards

At the first hearing following the Australian Grand Prix the Stewards did not have the benefit of the radio exchanges between driver No 1 Lewis Hamilton and his Team Vodafone McLaren Mercedes nor did they have access to the comments to the Media given by Lewis Hamilton immediately after the end of the race.

From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared that Jarno Trulli?s car left the track and car No 1 moved into third place. It then appeared that Trulli overtook Hamilton to regain third place, which at the time was prohibited as it was during the Safety Car period.

During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

The new elements presented to the Stewards several days after the 2009 Australian Grand Prix which led to the reconvened Stewards Meeting clearly show that:

a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.

The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager which led to Jarno Trulli being unfairly penalised and Lewis Hamilton gaining third place.

The FIA has also published a recording of an interview Hamilton gave to the media and a part of his team’s radio broadcast.

586 comments on “Hamilton excluded from Australian Grand Prix, Trulli third”

  1. What a Joke… This is Crazy…

    1. Whewbacca the Cookie
      2nd April 2009, 11:52

      Word is McLaren is not going to appeal. They seem to have accepted the judgment.

    2. McLaren don’t have a good track record with the FIA and appeals, do they? LOL.

      What Max said: really, pretty stupid. Race positions should be decided during the race, never after it.

    3. No it’s not a joke…

  2. If he did not tell the stewards pertinent details he should be punished accordingly. Especially when he goes blabbing it elsewhere and ‘forgets’ to tell the stewards some pretty important details, thats just poor and bad sportsmanship. He should be telling the stewards everything that happens, even if its to his own detriment.

    1. Whewbacca the Cookie
      2nd April 2009, 11:31

      Second that… If he did indeed hold back some truth he has deserved the penalty.

    2. I think people should back down from the Hamilton fetishizing – ‘he,’ ‘he’, ‘he.’ It’s kind of juvenile. Hamilton told various sources he’d been told to let Trulli pass. If McLaren then made a TEAM decision to claim otherwise, the onus is on them, not Hamilton, who was basically placed in an impossible position by his employers.

      I think the decision’s right, though, at a team sporting level. McLaren are looking just as shoddy as they did in the spygate and Alonso episodes.

    3. I agree with David. McLaren have caused this to come about, not Hamilton. Listening to his team radio, he seemed like a young driver trying to find out where he should be, not like a cold, calculating tarred-with-the-same-brush-as-Schumacher figure. It seems to me that the team have decided to keep this info from the stewards to gain podium prestige, but failed to inform their driver before he spoke to the media. They deserve the punishment, but Hamilton doesn’t. He does have to wear it, however. Team sport ‘n’all.

  3. FIA makes F1 a shambles again

    1. FIA’s contribution to this problem was, as stated before, Mosley’s rather ridiculous undermining of Charlie Whiting’s authority as race director.

      And the rather strict options about what penalties can be handed out (though, as discussed earlier, before Hamilton/McLaren’s misleading of the stewards came to light, in this case a 10-slot grid penalty plus dropping Trulli to 4th would have been a more appropriate penalty)

      What’s mindboggling is, was the team aware that Hamilton had given the interview? And they think the stewards will not find out? They’ve pretty much given away any chance that they will be treated fairly from now on — any of their testimony would be treated with justified suspicion by stewards in the upcoming races, who would not want to be cuckolded as the Melbourne ones did.

  4. I’m getting fed up with F1.

    Not that I want to see Lewis and VMM getting away with stuff when they are clearly misleading others, but because of the constant inconsistency of the stewards and the FIA. Get it right on the day, during the race and let that be an end to it!

    Pathetic state of affairs.

  5. Go Renault 09"
    2nd April 2009, 10:03


  6. Rubbish! So what does this mean? Does Lewis keep fourth? Or does he get the 25 second penalty which would place him 12th?

    If the team is at fault, the driver should not be penalized. I know its a team sport but this is clearly the teams wrong doing. Strip the team of Contructors points or fine them, they should strip the driver of points.

    1. Hamilton gets disqualified from the classification. If they did mislead the stewards then it is just, but as he went and told the media I don’t beleive it was intentional. If they intended to mislead you’d imagine they would get their stories straight…..

  7. Philip Mortstedt
    2nd April 2009, 10:04

    Forget rule changes, this is what F1 really is, needless, continous post race controversy and meddling which essentially makes the idea of a race completely pointless.

  8. So let me get this straight. And before I start, McLaren are geese for not being honest.


    Trulli slides off. Slides back on then, knowing he cannot pass under safety car, did it anyway. Then, after the usual FIA faffing, he’s penalised 25s and Lewis gets the third that was technically his anyway.

    So they’re recalled, despite Toyota giving up (ie declining to press charges) a new meeting is called, McLaren’s flexibility with the truth uncovered and, despite the fact that Trulli had broken the rules, he is reinstated. So instead of just bumping Lewis back to fourth, he is DQed?


    1. yeah DQ seems harsher than trulli’s 25 second penalty.

      end of the day, trulli went off, they let him back in front.

      then the fia stuck it’s nose in, messed up the results, threw in a penalty, then, messed the results again and threw in a bigger penalty.

      really the teams sorted it out on the track it all was fair.

      as much as i really don’t want to see all the whining, it does seem harsh for something that was never an issue.

    2. oh i see why now. because once the FIA decided to investigate the 3rd place they then hid the evidence and mislead the FIA into giving them the position rather than telling the fair truth and allowing toyota to retain the 3rd place.

      oh well, burnt for being bad.

    3. Williams 4ever
      2nd April 2009, 12:24

      That Trulli Slid of Behind the Safety Car, he was entitled to get back his position as per rules. So McLaren like good boys gave back Trulli his position. Stewards in Australia were incompetent enough Not to know the Rules deemed Trulli wrongfully overtook Lewis behind Safety car. And stripped the Italian off his righful result. Now another bunch of idiots try to undo it without honestly confessing botch up was at their end. And Hamilton loses his fourth place. Two wrongs doesn’t make it right, it just makes bloody screw up.
      To be honest I am not a fan of the brit ( solely due to his loud mouth and “ME” Talk), but the kid is wronged this time for sure. SPA actions of the Brit were contentious for sure.. but this time around he is being wronged

    4. Correct events ; Trulli slides off track, Hamilton slow s down (80KMH too slow for safety car regime),Trulli overtakes Ham ,Trulli disqualified after interview with stewards , Hamilton mislead the stewards pass and do not say anything to stop the wrong decision to disqualify Trulli. What a champion!!(thanks to Glock )
      By the way you defend the cheating guy looks like you are english!!

  9. It just says Ham lost his 3rd, so he’s most probably been put back to 4th. Its not the end of the world people.

    1. He has been disqualified. So he will not be classified.

    2. Oh well. He misled the stewards so he deserves what he gets.

    3. I wouldn’t say Hamilton mislead people. He told the truth originally, it seems his team lead him into the situation and then lied.

  10. Starting to think its all fixed now.

    1. You mean you only just think that?

  11. Hmmm, if he didnt tell the stewards stuff that he later admitted in an interview then fair enough, he should be penalised for it, although it does seem a little harsh given that the whole situation was rather confusing to start with. And as much as i think that Trulli deserves his points back, how have they removed a 25s penalty – they wouldnt have been able to remove a drive thru – is that not why you cant appeal it in the first place! Technically, both drivers should have then recieved the 25s penalty if they were going to do anything about it – rather than remove Hamilton altogether, not that it makes much difference.

    Ideally id have liked the original result to stand, and I am a fan of neither driver – but they both deserved some points! If only Hamilton had been honest to the stewards in the first place thats what would have happened! All over an extra one point.

    1. I agree that if Hamilton was misleading, he should get some punishment, but to be DQed from the whole thing is terrible.

      I hate to sound like a broken record, but do any of us think that Raikkonen and/or Massa would be excluded from the results if they had been in the same position?

  12. Well it isn’t a massive surprise Hamilton and McLaren getting penalised is it, what are the odds they won’t be allowed to appeal?

    I hope the FIA release all the evidence they have to make their decision as transparent as possible. From what I read so far it is based on the radio transmissions not matching Hamilton’s and McLaren’s statements, so I have to ask why did the stewards not look into these before issuing their original penalty in Australia considering how big an impact it had on the final results, as Trulli lost his podium and ending up with nothing.

  13. Go Renault 09"
    2nd April 2009, 10:12

    they FIA need to clarify things sooner so we don’t have issues and results to races being decided nearly a week after the race has finished.
    I agree that lewis and Mclaren should not get away with this behavior or actions and is probably mostly there fault it has gone on so long. if there wasn’t conflicting story’s from them it should have been resolved by monday at latest.
    Oh well bring on Malaysia i say!!

  14. Ferrari no points so far, therefore Mclaren are’nt allowed any points so far!! is someone trying to line up the season for a grand finale at the end again. Or am I just being paranoid My guess is via the FIA the season will be decided at the end. Come on chaps I thought you wanted cars to race not deciding who wins in the stewards office.

    1. I dont think this has anything to do with Ferrari – Lewis and Mclaren broke the rules by allowing Trulli to get penalised for something that wasnt his fault. If he had admitted it straight away that he slowed down to let him back past, he would probably have fourth place right now.

    2. yeah that’s right bring ferrari into it…i knew someone had to be that pathetic!

  15. keepF1technical
    2nd April 2009, 10:14

    since when should the outcome of a race be dictated by what a driver SAYS. Its his actions that we all tune in to see.

    so how many post race interviews do you think we will get from drivers now? It will be ‘no comment’ to every question

    nice one FIA… you cant write rules, you cant be consistent. Why not just tell us now who will be champion.

    Keith, how about running a pole to see who agrees the fia are any good at their job??? could be the most one sided yet.

    1. oh c’mon mate, the drivers can say whatever the heck they want to reporters, as long as they tell the stewards the truth!

      Don’t be blaming the stewards for Hamilton’s and MacLaren’s lack of honesty.

  16. To clear up according to Autosport Hamilton has been disqualified from the Australian GP, not just demoted back to 4th as some seem to beleive.


  17. C’mon enough with the FIA/Ferrari stuff. As a fan of Lewis and Mclaren I agree with the stewards. If they lied or did not say something they knew vindicate Toyota then the penalty is fair. They should no by now to be open and honest. Perverting the course of justice. say no more.

    1. I see your point I really do and accept that, but its all kicking off again isn’t it, why do they have to meddle with the race results days after. It just isn’t racing to decide all this after, in other sports the refs decision is final. Does this mean we should look into Englands world cup win in 66 and have a re-think!!! Maybe Eddie the eagle should have won gold after all so on and so forth.

    2. I agree Graham, it’s a little frustrating. Ref’s decision is final.. But F1 is a dictatorship!

      They may need to impliment a de-brief after race prior to the podium to allow ll issues to be resolved. It wouldn’t do much for the show but it may avert some un-necassary messings about like this.

      On a lighter note – I suggested earlier in the week to do the parade lap and then see if they can borrow a lotto machine from camelot to draw the race results..

    3. I see your point as well, but the FIA are making the appearance that McLaren/Hamilton ‘lied’ (or rather ‘intentionally mislead’) without showing us their documentation of the original hearing. How can we trust that their interpretation of the conversation that took place as FACT without hearing it. Everyone can interpret things differently and I would chalk this up to that sort of circumstance.

      Its pretty clear McLaren’s position on this after hearing the audio from the team radio. THEY DIDNT KNOW WHAT TO DO AT THE TIME and were most likely still unclear after the race. Like them, I too would have assumed that, with the radio transmissions being COMPLETELY OPEN, the FIA ‘stewards’ would have done their JOB and reviewed all the facts before making a decision in the first place. Granted, I would have tried to get that clarification, but I can easily see (again, without the actual transcripts of what happened behind closed doors) where the confusion could run over into the ‘hearing’ that occurred after the race and Hamilton made the mistake. FIA wants to portray it as an outright lie without providing the evidence to back it up. If indeed it was, shame on McLaren/Hamilton – but I just don’t believe it was an intentional effort to mislead the officials.

      At worst, give Trulli back his 3rd place and Hamilton his 4th because Hamilton, it seems, did slow at the order of the team to let Trulli by, or at least he slowed as a byproduct of being on the radio repeatedly and veered off line. Who says you have to stay on the ‘racing line’ when behind the safety car? Disqualifying a driver because one interpretation of the conversation/questions (again, unpublished, so I do not know exactly how they were worded) differs from another is highly suspect. I am sure this is an unprecedented situation, as are most situations Hamilton gets involved in, it would seem. But, when there are precedents (Spa, last year) they just get thrown out because its him driving.


  18. Lol, this just adds to the spectacle. If Lewis’s is not careful he may just get that ‘Schumacher v2.0’ tag after all. Ooh, what a shame :)

  19. FFS

    Honesty, unfortunately underrated by many. Great start to the season.
    How dumb is Whitmarsh to think they would get away with this. They didn’t edge on the side of caution in this instance did they.

    Disappointed with Mclaren.

  20. What a farce.

    It seemed under the safety car none of the drivers had a clue what they were supposed to be doing, like when they had to overtake the safety car. Hamilton and McLaren were probably just as confused about how to deal with this situation too. First Vettels arguably unfair share of the blame for his crash with Kubica, then the 25s penalty on Trulli which was just harsh given the circumstances, and now this? I can’t wait for the diffuser hearing.

  21. I think, it’s cool with Lewis-Trulli incident now. Lewis probably would have had the 4-th place if he would have told the truth at the first place.

    I also agree with Schumi that Vettel’s punishment was too much as well.

    But, I think they are now having second thoughts on this one as well.

  22. As a mccca fan this is very bad news.

    As the points haul was probably the last we were going to see for a while not that has gone it is going to be very bare in the macca trophy cabinet!!!

  23. If Lewis Hamilton has been disqualified from the results of the GP then this sounds like he will get no points.

  24. What next? Brawn, Toyota and Williams all disqualified over the diffusers, Ferrari handed the 1-2 instead because had the ‘naughty’ other cars not been running on the same racetrack they wouldn’t have caused the same wear and tear on the Ferrari engines or the mistakes made by the drivers! Well anything is possible these days!

    1. Indeed, for those of us sick and tired of the FIA and their henchmen stewards deciding the outcome if races, let’s not forget that “diffuser-gate” is still brewing, and that the entire course of the season could be completely changed in the next few weeks :(

  25. Excellent article Keith. You have really summed it up succinctly. I bet Lewis wonders why he bothers. The thought that such a brilliant drive, just like the one in Spa, should lead to nothing, is such a farce and a smack in the face for F1 fans.

    1. The penalty has nothing to do with his driving, or the actual incident itself – it is they way they kept quiet about slowing down to let Trulli back past that is the problem. It is their own fault – harsh but true.

    2. Well not really – in fact it’s more like a warm comforting arm around my shoulder (as an F1 fan), so please don’t bracket all F1 fans under your terms.

      He and his team were disingenuous and have been punished. End of story.

    3. Well said….

    4. I agree S Hughes- terribly harsh for the circustances. I’m a Hamilton fan, and thought that was one of his best career drives. But yet again, the stewards much up the whole situation…..

  26. What a mess and shame :(
    Ruining a person’s hard work over a faulty message..
    Disqualifying is way too harsh a penalty..

  27. Wow, the FIA has no idea what their doing. i cant believe how long this B.S. has gone on without it being solved immediately. Trulli ran off course so Hamilton moves into P3 and Trulli takes P4, and all the crap after about radio transmissions and what ever else…FORGET ABOUT IT, just throw it out the window, and leave the results as that. I cant stand F1 this year:(

    1. no you have no idea what you are doing. the FIA DQ’s him for lying about giving back the position, by lying they got given the 3rd place.

  28. So, the FIA decide that Hamilton cannot get points for being confused in a situation THEY have allowed to arise by refusing calls to the race director.
    May be the FIA just can’t stand having a black guy doing well with a dog of a car (how many on this forum alone – usually fairly balanced – would have clapped gleefully if Hamilton had had a bad race?). With a fascist like Mosley involved, we can’t expect him to tolerate equality.
    Go on – lambast me for suggesting there’s rascism in F1. And I’ll laugh at you for believing this is “motorsport”. This is politics. Only a mug believes there’s a sporting element left in this organisation – maybe the teams can lay claim to sportsmanlike behaviour at times, but the FIA is about as sporting as UKIP. And about as relevant.

    btw. If I’d suggested that the FIA are anti-McLaren/pro-Ferrari, while less controversial, it would no doubt spark just as much criticism, so I’m sticking my head above the parapet to make the link between fascism and rascism. Daring.

    1. He didnt lose the place because of the confusion, he lost it for not admitting he slowed down to let Trulli back past – leading to Trulli getting unfairly penalised for overtaking under the saftey car when he was left with no choice – just like Hamilton overtkaing Trulli in the first place had no choice. If he had said to the stewards ‘look i slowed down – it was all a bit confusing, i didnt know whether to let him back past or not’ he would probably have fourth place right now – which whilst isnt third – is a lot better than a dsq!

    2. Rachel, you are right. Don’t fear being lambasted. Of course racism is a factor in F1 politics and stewards’ decisions. Anyone who would deny that is someone who wants the status quo because it ties in with their own vile views, or is someone who is too stupid to acknowledge racism exists just because it has never happened to them.

      The FIA just do not want a black man to come into a previously “white man’s sport” and show them how it’s done. It makes me feel physically sick.

  29. What a shambolic situation! I’m no fan of Hamilton, but he did deserve a top five position. Likewise for Trulli. I’d say they are probably the best drives I’ve seen from both of them.

    It seems that F1 is creating too many of its own ‘grey areas’, in which confusion reigns supreme. Are we going to end up with drivers all swopping positions because they think they might have made a mistake in overtaking someone who has fallen off the track (or someone missing a wheel)?

    Max Mosely has done it again by not allowing communication with Charlie Whiting. Max is a pillock! End of.

  30. What on earth is going on?

  31. Mussolini's Pet Cat
    2nd April 2009, 10:27

    here we go again…..at least i can have a sleep in this weekend, ‘cos we won’t find out the result until next week…….farce.

    1. I know the feeling….with every (insert explative of your choice here) decision like this, I am less and less motivated to alter my sleep schedule for races like Malaysia, which due to Bernie’s TV bias, starts at 4:30 AM in my local time zone.

  32. I was expecting worse penalty. Well, does tht mean the used engine/gearbox doesn’t count too???

  33. I disagreed Trulli’s penalty and I disagree now… well, in fact it seems that Lewis has been penalized for “being a liar” (I’m not telling him a liar, it’s just what it seems they’re accusing him off). However it’s fun to read the reactions to Trulli’s penalty (“ok, they’re the rules”) and current reactions :)

    Anyways I thought that Trulli’s penalty couldn’t be waived because it was a race penalty ( which I’d hate if they do that because Alonso would get another point ^^ )

    1. Yeah I cant understand how Trulli’s penalty was waived either :S Thats the whole reason why you cant appeal a 25s penalty :S

    2. yeah toyota’s stance on the rules has been good all weekend, when they got hit for the rear wing they accepted it and didn’t fight, when they got the penalty they put in an appeal then withdrew it and accepted the result.

      they agree, rules are rules and not to fight the people trying to enforce them at every step.

    3. Yeah, they have accepted all thats been thrown at them havent they – and are now second in the title for it. I try not to like Toyota after they kept on Trulli and got rid of Ralf (not that I hold a grudge of owt!) – but i cant seem to help myself, i kinda like seeing them do well – any ‘midfield’ team do well to be honest. Especially Williams :D

    4. Not that it couldn’t be waived…they just weren’t allowed to appeal. I think Toyota had a good suspicion that FIA was going to reconvene and that is why they pulled their appeal.

  34. I’m no fan of the FIA, but I don’t see how you can blame them and get all worked up over inconsistence blah blah with this one.

    Had Lewis told them the truth to begin with then he would be 4th and Trulli 3rd, no penalties and the race result stands… however he lied, and therefore Trulli received a 25sec penalty. Now that the truth is out it is only fair that Trulli’s penalty be removed and Lewis disqualified.

    The FIA has acted correctly and fairly throughout this case. It is Lewis & VMM who are at fault here.

  35. This is perfectly fair. Trulli broke no rules. I found this on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OohT1HbaEF0

    It’s an extract of Toyota’s team radio. Towards the end you can hear Trulli explain that after Lewis slowed down he passed because he thought he had a problem, but when he realised Lewis didn’t have a problem, Trulli slowed to let him pass again but the McLaren didn’t pass. McLaren then went and protested, it’s their own ignorance of the rules that has cost them.

  36. they (stewerds and FIA) should not have done anything – at least not until they were sure of what they were doing. it seems they meddle, then 2 days later meddle again then meddle a third time just to annoy everyone.

    It should have been how it finished (Trulli 3rd, Hamilton 4th). If there were no investigations in the first place then Maclaren could not have got muddled up in their evidence in order to get disqualified.

    its got nothing to do with racing. its all ‘off-track’ stuff thats ruining F1. the FIA are a total joke.

    Also, Lewis got punished when it was Whitmarsh who lied. Ham told the truth and lost his points.

  37. What lewser has done is blatant cheating simple as-doent matter about creed or colour,i believe this is worse than what schumacher did to hill yrs ago.
    hes lied to mclaren and lied to stewards,no wonder other drivers dont like him!!
    he brings all this on himself,ban him for the season!!

  38. I look forward to finding out who wins this Sundays race in about two weeks Wednesday, it should be thrilling. Its just what Bernie and His special friends work so hard to entertain us with, Actually scrub that I will ask him next week when I see him in Asda I will let you all know then

  39. If Hamilton / Mclaren has been less than truthful then of course I’m more than just a little disapprointed (gutted and I need to see the transcripts to know the truth). But really this is about FIA mis-management and a very mid-20th century attitude to crime and punishment. The whole organisation is a monstrosity and if we want to see fair decision-making to take the place of this “iron fist” approach we need to sweep away the old guard (a bit like Obama sweeping away that dreadful Bush administration). We need an end to the school master – pupil (dare I say Master & Slave) hierachy! WHAT A BUNCH OF DINOSAURS

  40. So McLaren gives misleading information, gets caught and penalised? Sounds familiar.

    But I do agree with Keith about instant communications with race officials. I know the FIA tries to be slow and deliberate, but you can hear this stuff going on real-time in American series. It is perhaps unnecessary to add that you don’t see controversy like this in those racing leagues.

    If they can do it, why not in F1? The technology and organisation is there. They just have to use it.

  41. Mansell for FIA president the bloke knew how to race

    1. Bingo…no more ticky-tack penalties handed out for drivers pushing the envelope and giving us a quality show!!

  42. Does anyone else enjoy these little spats? I’ve only gotten into formula one seriously in the last 2 years so maybe this didnt happen a while ago but I’ve found that this is part and parcel of the pure randomness of the sport! I mean I find these change ups by the FIA after the race give me an awful lot to talk about between races. Although they bring the sport into disrepute occasionally, they are also a large reason I can last the long waits between races! Speculation, speculation, speculation!!

    1. In that case you are clearly not a motorsport fan. If you want and enjoy all this stupid back-stabbing and in-fighting, I suggest you tune into Eastenders or something to get your fix of drama. Sorry if I sound harsh, but our sport could really do without ‘fans’ such as yourself.

    2. Jim I am a Formula one fan. I’ve watched every formula one race for the last 2 years and intend to keep watching them every year. The reason I got into F1 in the first place is because of the motorsport aspect. But apart I also keep up to date with the political side of the sport and enjoy it. I believe if every ‘fan’ was as commited to the sport as me then it would outrank every other sport in terms of popularity. Unfortunately fans (notice the lack of quotation marks Jim it means I’m talking about you and not a ‘fan’ like me) of the sport tend to be a tiny bit ‘harsh’ to people who actually like having a political side to the sport.

      I do enjoy the politics of the sport. I would hardly call this case in hand (hamilton’s disqualification) as back-stabbing or in-fighting. In fact the FIA were wrong about Trulli’s penalty and Hamilton deserved punishment for giving contradictory evidence, although the punishment might be over the top. Perhaps the FIA have some sort of grudge against mclaren or hamilton but I wouldn’t call it back stabbing.

    3. Sorry Jim, I missed the bit where it was announced that you get to decide who should be and F1 and who shouldn’t. A little self rightous, no?

    4. *who should be an F1 fan and who shouldn’t…

  43. keith, i hope this has nothing to do with your prediction comp have you been in talks with the FIA?? nothing will surprise me anymore.

  44. I think it’s fair to say that Trulli’s 3rd should have been up kept from the get go. And a simple position swap would have sufficed.

    but i think Disqualifying Hami is not cool. although i didn’t help me from liking the fact that Trulli’s 3rd stuck…

    i think that when Hami retires in a few years, he will be known as the most bullied driver by the FIA.

    hey Keith, that’s interesting, who was actually the driver most bullied by the FIA? i guess McLaren are the team…..

  45. ll people saying this is crazy and unfair etc you really should be aware that Lewis’ story to the FIA was that he taking in information from his steering wheel when Trulli passed him, hence why he was slow and off line. Data proved his steering wheel to be blank and the team having told him to pull over and relinquish the place. In black&white context flagrant lying to the stewards is probably taken even more seriously than disqualification from one event. If you’ve read this and are still unsure, I suggest you read the rules provided by the FIA and then dash on down to dictionary.com to comprehend the definition of a rule!!

  46. graham dund
    2nd April 2009, 10:37

    I agree with andy-no room for cheats in this sport,what hamilton has done is unforgiveable.

  47. Same old, same old. Interesting that I’m wondering why I bother with F1 after just one race.


    1. The FIA is just one big joke, a bunch of cretins who are determined to transfer the race result from the track to their own petty little domain, guess it makes them feel important.

  48. BowtNetterToDo
    2nd April 2009, 10:38

    I’m not sure i want to watch another season of the fia’s manipulation of the results.
    The FIA had the opportunity to clarify the confusion from Toyota and McLaren over the SC overtaking rules and declare Hamilton 3rd and Trulli 4th, but no, an opportunity to go round layin the boot in cant be missed.

  49. yep hes cheated no doubt,ashamed to call him british.
    This is not the british way.

    1. Too right! The British way is to moan about it!

    2. Oh dear, this just is not Cricket is it now sir.

  50. If McLaren told Hamilton to let trulli pass, why would they launch an appeal?

  51. Good post, Kieth. For a start, why do we need more than one ‘steward’. Why not have just one referee as in Football.

    Sure, the ref in football comes in for a lot of flack, sometimes he’s wrong, sometimes he’s right, but at least everybody knows where they stand. In F1, the ref should make the call at the time, and then stand by that decision. We can all have a good moan about it after, but at least we will have a result to moan about.

    Just because the stewards (plural) right now don’t have to make their minds up until after the event, doesn’t mean they will always get it right – look at the Bourdais Japan decision last year, and the controversial Hamilton one in Spa – it went on for bl**dy days!

    Keep it simple. One ref, he makes the call during the race, his decision is final, we can all go home knowing the result.

    All these steward meetings are needlessly intellectualizing what should be just a simple, quick process.

    …and BTW, if Hamilton mislead the stewards, then he deserves to get DQ’d.

  52. I don’t get the DQ.

  53. Fia very slow here,BUT they have found wrongdoing fair play to them.
    This is why he is the most hated man in f1.
    we all have to be responsable for our own actions.
    Well done fia

    1. Pete_Firestarter
      2nd April 2009, 11:40

      I do not agree with you comment mr ging “This is why he is the most hated man in f1. we all have to be responsable for our own actions.”

      He is a good racing driver and very entertaining and world champion too. May i ask why YOU hate him? 90% of users here like him.

    2. I thought I read somewhere that he was hated by most of the drivers….. not the fans.

    3. yeah the F1 drivers n the teams hate him but the reason is not bcoz he lied (coz they lie everytime… only thing is that FIA close their eyes when it comes to certian teams n drivers) it’s just that lewis’s is damn good …….

  54. Its truli i feel for,he pleaded his case proved he didnt do wrong,mclaren/hamilton trying to suck him in to there cheating ways.
    well done jarno for sticking up for yourself.

  55. Openness in the decisions FIA? Remember this promise a few months ago? More competent stewards at the races?

    Instead what do we get? Just a page with a single sentence with the decision and two idiots who cannot decide on the spot that Hamilton and Trulli gave conflicting statements.

    FFS if the drivers give conflicting statements you call them back!

  56. I REALLY HOPE YOU ALL REALISE that the FIA was trying to help and make sure mclaren weren’t being taken advantage of here.

    Remember, they looked at the info, took in what mclaren said and then penalised toyota. Gave mclaren the extra position.


    Just saying that because no doubt in the future there will be another ruling and you’ll all complain how the FIA is against mclaren.

    So all you brittish take note.

  57. Hamilton should be also given 10 place grid penalty for Malaysia!

  58. FIA? What does this stand for? ***** Idiots Association? What a bunch of pratts, why do they always find some way to spoil a good race for Hamilton, they should make their mind up on their decision before they go public. There trying to make the sport better and eveything when at the moment non of the racing is done on the track it is all off the track, and i am starting to see that the FIA favour other drivers to Hamilton, and in my opinion this is unfair.

    If the FIA just keep getting involved like this after every race formula 1 will loose alot of fans.

  59. My opinion on this involves too many offensive words so i’m just going to say…


  60. You guys just dont get it do you ?
    The stewerds job is the ensure Ferrari win the world championship… even if that makes the FIA look bent.
    At this present time they are trying to find a way to undermine Brawn…… be warned

    1. i don’t think you’re getting it.

  61. one word for hamilton mclaren comes in the eqasion reading these comments and they are right CHEAT

  62. I really don’t think its the FIA being a shambles, Lewis and Macca’s original intentions where honourable, however when they saw they could steal 3rd place with a little lie they went for it. Fortunately the stewards saw that this was a lie with physical evidence backing up. It doesn’t matter if it is 4 days after the race finish or 4 months after the finish if someone is found to be lying/cheating they should definitely be punished.
    If Lewis and Macca had just told the truth in the beginning they could be sitting back with a 4th place with a car which should barely be breaking into the top ten but instead decided to mislead the stewards and the fans so should definitely pay the price

    1. The point is, the FIA/Stewards/Whatever should have reviewed ALL the evidence. What McLaren claimed shouldn’t have mattered… Whatever evidence changed the decision to this, should have already been viewed. Trulli should have always been third, Hamilton should have been left fourth. It’s a joke. I just can’t understand what the stewards have looked at now, that they couldn’t have looked at earlier.

    2. the point i was trying to make was that at least maclaren and lewis were found out for being deceptive. yes this should have been established before trulli was given his penalty but it is far better late than never. i think its terrible for lewis to take away trulli’s well earnt position by decepting the stewards. people on here are stating that the positions should be settled on track but the truth is that things can never be that simple.
      if somebody lies no matter how late after the event has taken place they should be punished.
      sShame on lewis and maclaren and well done stewards, they took their time but eventually made the right decision(for once)

  63. Yeah FIA rules are so much badly interpreted and managed during races. It’s really scandalous how FIA manage this kind of things.

    FIA’s management is a joke. No one in a private company doing the same FIA is doing, will mantain his position. We have to wait up to mid April just to know who is the winner of Australia and maybe Malaysia GP’s winner, Toyota and McLaren were not able to know how to behave under safety car…. what next?

    But well deserved punishment for McLaren. They have cheated. They tried to take advantage form their own mistake being quited, meanwhile Trulli was unfairly penalised.

    1. unfairly penalised because of mclarens deception. if it was all above board the fia would have just dismissed the whole case and nothing would have happened at all…

  64. david brown
    2nd April 2009, 10:52

    Since the SWEARING incident a couple of years ago i thought then this guys a real charmer.
    he is alone bringing this loved sport into disripute!!

    1. He never swore. Another lie to blacken Lewis’s name.

  65. It’ll be interesting to see how Lewis and the team will react to this aftermath. Will he admit he lied? Stay quiet? Or put blame on others?

    Being a McLaren fan, this surely ****** me off. The FIA do need to shoulder some blame as to why they did not seek such critical evidence such as radio transmissions? And allow these after-race farces to plague our sport time and time again?

    But if Lewis did lie, then I do think he needs to be punished.

  66. gina tweedle
    2nd April 2009, 10:55

    hes gone down in my estimation,used to like him now as others have said this is why hes not popular.
    he should really be banned for min 5 races

  67. The FIA need to get a better grip on reality.

    A race is competed on the CIRCUIT, not in meeting rooms afterwards.

    If the FIA were a little more savvy, they would have by now implemented PERMANENT race stewards who have executive rights to race regulation while they are being run, i.e. if they see something amiss, fix it straight away.

    Trulli should have re-relinquished his place to Lewis, as the rules define. Why did the FIA remove the communication with the race director? He could have told them the SC rules and the whole thing would have been OK, Lewis in third and Trulli in fourth. No great harm done for Trulli, considering that he was a muppet for falling off the track in the first place. Instead now we have more points being awarded for rubbish driving, and egg on the face of McLaren yet again (which adds to the detriment of the sports reputation).

    So, instead we have this farce now, and the credibility of this already Circus-like spectacular has plummeted even further!

    1. yeah end of the day i agree with you, there needs to be in-race communication between the team’s and the race director to basically referee the goings on and clarify any situations.

      the reason for the after the track meetings and inquiries is that they cant act on problems fast enough, things happen so quickly, unlike football where you pause the match, get a video referee to check the data and decide they cant pause an f1 race and check the video.

      they currently do that, but when there’s an incident with only a couple of laps to go there’s next to no time to make that happen

  68. Lewis and McLaren can’t win whatever they do. May be it’s time for Lewis to look for something else to do. I would’nt be surprised if he packed it in, then spill the beans

  69. gina tweedle
    2nd April 2009, 11:00

    god get rid, good riddence take mclaren with him (im not a ferrari fan,a f1 fan)

    1. If you WANT to see one of the top (most years, not all) teams LEAVE the sport of ever, and take the driver that is finally pulling the sport into the eyes and minds of the general public with them, then you are NOT an F1 fan. Sorry, but your comment is utter ******** and you know it.

  70. Bigbadderboom
    2nd April 2009, 11:02

    I McLaren were being neglectful with the truth then they deserved to be punished, however were does a DQ come into it, places penalty at next race, return result to tru 3rd ham in 4th. I don’t get it. Our sport is now suffering huge embarasments. Somebody needs to get hold of things and redefine rules, regs and punishments.

    A colleague at work has just seen me reading Keiths article here and said to me “I don’t know why you bother (with F1) it’s all fixed everyone knows that”. Is that really the non fantic opinion of the sport we love? is public perception becoming this twisted?

    I’m gutted for F1

  71. Just a F1 Fan
    2nd April 2009, 11:02

    My God…

    Where do they go find those stewards… Newspaper adds?… Why in hell do we need rules, when at every race those guys just made it up as they go?… And that shot of the race commissars sitting on a big table watching the race in a tinny monitor… All guys above, at least 60…. Can they really see anything, or just decide what they want (or others paid them to decide…)

    I was hopping this year would be better than last one and that those … gentlemen would shut up and went have a drink or something during the races… I was wrong…

    Prepare yourselves – don’t be happy or sad with any final race results… Because THEY’RE NOT FINAL!…

    Days after, we will have appeals, changes on the classification, futile explanations and other things that, together with that joke of a FIA president are KILLING Formula 1 all together.

    If this don’t stop right now, I’m sad to say, Formula One will be no more my favourite Sport of all.

    I like and watch soccer and have my team and all, but Formula One it that magical thing, ever since I can remember, was a thrill….!

    No more!!!

  72. i wont shed any tears,f1 is not for cheating teams and drivers.
    remember its not the first time mclaren have tried cheating!1
    (like gina not a ferrari fan)

  73. I am really getting annoyed with f1..how does the punishement fit the crime? Vettle incident ws simply a race incident but he is given a 10 place penalty.. Lewis stripped of all points when i dont belive he Mclaren tried to cheat to get 1 extra place…Shambles

  74. So wait, the stewards penalise Trulli after not really bothering to investigate. They penalise Vettel without bothering to investigate. And we’re supposed to be getting better stewarding this yesr?

    You also can’t help feel that had they not had to embarrass themselves by reversing the trulli penalty, the results would have stood as originally.

  75. If they lied to the stewards, whatever… Deal with it Hamilton and McLaren and don’t let it happen again.

    Bet regardless, the Stewards shouldn’t be making such decisions by one guys word, over another guys word, like this. They should look at ALL the evidence BEFORE making a call. Even better though, stop all this protest dribble. I’m sick of race results not being final until weeks after a Grand Prix. Hell, we STILL don’t know if Brawn GP’s 1,2 and Trulli’s 3rd are final standings… their cars could all be called illegal yet. What a load of Garbage. I’m really begining to hate this sports governing bodies. There is NO reason this should have taken half a week to conclude.

    1. they did look at the evidence – but the evidence mclaren presented mislead them into penalizing toyota.

    2. “they did look at the evidence”

      What, so they looked at the onboard cameras, or listened to the radio conversations? Either one of which would’ve been sufficient?

      No, they didn’t.

  76. John Spencer
    2nd April 2009, 11:10

    Can we leave the results and disqualify the stewards?

    Seriously, I don’t mind if Hamilton or Trulli is third. I’m not overly concerned if either or both of them gets zero points because of an arbitrary stewards’ decision.

    But I would quite like it if perhaps the stewards could make up their mind instead of changing it every five minutes. It detracts from F1’s credibility just a little bit.

    I also don’t understand the situation where Toyota don’t appeal because (a) they’re not allowed to and (b) any appeal would fail yet the FIA stewards can flip flop on a whim.

    I still don’t really understand what actually happened between Hamilton and Trulli behind the safety car, and maybe it’s because the stewards don’t either that the little box on the FIA website for the post-event report remains completely empty

    1. toyota did appeal, but they withdrew the appeal.

      under the SC and waved yellows trulli slipped off the track, trulli then followed hamilton but hamilton slowed down, trulli tried to say behind but had no option but to go past since he was going so low.

  77. F1 is stuffed… honestly, it’s finished. Max, Bernie, Idiot Stewards, Team bosses that like court rooms, it’s all adding up to kill off the pinicle of motor racing.

    Sorry people, but F1 isn’t going to make it past 2020, without some SERIOUS changes. That I am sure of.

    Hmm, So i guess all the Predictions results change now?

  78. nice la FIA.. everything they do is just so right.. Ultra Communist-alike… woot woot~

  79. Team Radio:
    McLaren to FIA: “Trulli went off, LH had to pass. Is this ok?”
    FIA to McL: “Fine”

    Problem solved, days of arguments/protests/penalties given/rescinded aren’t necessary.

    What i’d like to read is an official F1 release with charges and evidence so we can see exactly what happened, what who said, when they said it and what they did wrong. At the moment there’s a lot of 2nd hand information floating around interspersed with comments along the line of ‘ban hamboy 4 lyf cuz he iz evil, innit’

    Exactly what were the ‘new elements’ and why weren’t they available/looked into during the first steward decision?

  80. This is ridiculous, what Lewis said or didn’t say is irrelevant. Lewis passed Truli after he went off, Lewis gave the place back becaus eit was impossible for him to know whether he’d be penalised if he didn’t give the place back. The FIA had all the video evidence they needed to make a decision, what the drivers opinion of it all is irrelevant. Are we now going to see drivers refusing to give press interviews and taking lawyers in when interviewed by the FIA. This is just getting farcical, I doubt Lewis would have pulled over if the events of the last 2 years hadn’t happened, now he gets penalised for being cautious. Truli’s penalty was a mistake, this penalty is a mistake, Vettel’s penalty is a mistake.

    The FIA are slowly, season by season, ruining this sport. What is the point of making rule changes to encourage overtaking if when someone does, they get a 10 place grid penalty at the next race.

    The FIA need to fix this and quick, in no other sport are the rules so complicated and decisions made days after the even. Why bother watching? Just check F1 fanatic after 7 days to see what the final result was?

    FOTA need to stand up and demand that things change or they’re off to form a new formula.

    1. your missing the point, it’s not about that, it’s about the fact that mclaren then lied about what they did in order to get the 3rd place back.

      they stuffed up by letting toyota pass in the first place and then lied to cover it up.

  81. I just don’t understand how McLaren thought they could get away with lying to the stewards. I mean, I know the stewards are pretty incompetent but surely McLaren must have known that the stewards could check their story. Hamilton even mentioned the radio transmissions to Lee McKenzie after the race and he gave that interview saying he was told to let Trulli past. If Hamilton/McLaren lied, which certainly appears to be the case, although I still can’t fathom it, then yes they should be punished. Although as Keith and several others have pointed out this whole debaucle could have been avoided if the teams could check with the race director, during the race, what position the cars should be in. And again as others have said, the safety car rules could certainly do with some clearing up too.

  82. What now happens to Yarno? Does he get his P3 back?

    That’s what I really don’t understand.I’m afraid I get the impression the FIA seem to be taking every opportunity to punish McLaren/Hamilton as far as they can.There seems to be no leeway in their decisions – as I said yesterday I’d have thought the sensible thing to do would be reverse the penalty and fine Hamilton/McLaren , it clearly was more recklessly not telling the whole story as opposed to willfully decieving the stewards (in which case I agree).

  83. Pete_Firestarter
    2nd April 2009, 11:16

    What a Joke – FIA!

  84. Knowing the way McLaren operate, it was clear that McLaren would have told Hamilton to slow down to let Trulli through, so that he would get a penalty.

    Hamilton lied about what he said – he did what he did with ill content and he paid the price.

  85. As far as I can see, the only mistake on the part of the FIA was not doing their due diligence well enough on their first meeting and not looking at all the evidence that was or would have been available. They could even have pushed the hearing out until they got all the evidence in before making a decision. Instead they pushed out a decision in a hurry (poor Trulli).

    I do think McLaren’s intentions were honorable to begin with, but they lost the plot somewhere along the way. They did themselves no favors with this; the stewards are only human and will henceforth be far more skeptical of what HAM or McLaren have to say (and rightly so).

    1. agreed, mclaren tried – and did do the right thing, they let the toyota past, either because they misunderstood the rules, or they were being kind and sportsman like.

      either way they yielded the position back to toyota, hats off to them.

      but fia can only rule with the info presented to them and mclaren mislead with the information they presented. the fia only have so much info at hand, they saw on the video that ham overtook trulli and trulli overtook hamilton and they wanted to sort it out so all was fair.

      mclaren then mislead the fia into understanding that their overtake was acceptable (which i think it was, trulli went off) and that then subsequent overtake by trulli was not acceptable (making trulli look like a cheater and forcing the fia to give trulli a penalty he did not deserve).

      whatever mclaren did in the first meeting was obviously different to the reality of what happened and the fia is penalising them for cheating their way back into 3rd and unfairly letting toyota accept a 25 second and a 10 spot penalty.

      if mclaren presented all the facts in the first meeting the fia could have made a standard fair ruling.

  86. I love the fact that so many people on here are so confident that Hamilton lied to the stewards even though the transcripts have never (and probably never will be) released. If Mclaren did indeed purposefully lie and decieve the stewards then they deserve to be disqualified but I would like to see the proof before I pass judgement. The simple fact is that this should never have been an issue. The rules should be black and white so that the drivers and teams know exaclty what they are doing. The race director should be able to tell teams what they need to do in a particular situation so that the problems can be corrected before the race ends. Also the race director should not be allowed to give advice then go back on it afterwards (like in spa). Also I would like to know what this “new” evidence is. It appears that it is the radio transmission which is not new at all as it would have been available in melbourne at the time of the stewards enquiry. Mclaren can not be blamed for handing the place back to trulli initially as they have been stung unfairly so many time that they must be paranoid. However Trulli still passed hamilton, hamilton did not re-pass trulli when they slowed down as he knew they were under a yellow flag. The only fair results would have been to give trulli his 4th place back and let hamilton keep 3rd or the other way around.

    The FIA are a farcical corrupt organisation and they are destroying F1.

  87. As much as I wanted Hamilton to get the points (6 or 5 didn’t really matter), I’m shocked to see the issue. I can’t believe they have lied. They should know that the truth will come out or at least to be good sport people. Because of their lie, Trulli almost lost all his points, this is not fair ….. I can’t believe Hamilton lied the stewards telling them he was looking at something else, that was stupid. Maybe the team told him to do this … but still, they should know better than this. I’m very disappointed by their action… even though I’m a huge fan, but this is not how I want to see them perform… and this is not how I want to see Hamilton perform… I’m very sorry but I think it is very good they’ve received the penalty for their lie, you can’t let that just go by, this would not be a sport if it did.

    1. Tot agreed

    2. entirely agreed

  88. Good work! That is what we want from f1! Fast and consistent ruling
    I hear that the stewarts are about to reach to a decision regarding the Australia 1994 Schumacher – Hill Incident.

  89. Stupid FIA!

    Hamilton and Mclaren made a big mistake by not telling the truth. Lack of communication with race director is major problem.

    The FIA have set a precedent that they probably won’t keep in penalising Hamilton for not telling the whole truth.

    Trulli deserved a place but he was lieing if he said he thought Hamilton would stop.

    It was as it first appeared, Trulli went off, Hamilton/ Mclaren were over cautious and let him past. Should have been left at that.

    FIA have made farce of the sport and if I can I will watch Indycar this weekend instead.

  90. FIA -Ferrari Intelligent aliens

  91. YES! :D

  92. maybe f1 should be SMS based, when something happens throw it out to an SMS public vote, would be a great money maker for them.

  93. Well – is it a surprise no – it vwas more of a surprise that they had awarded hamilton 3rd place – so the inevitable then happenened – they had a rethink decided that Hamilton and mclaren had misled them?? – cant they listen to the teams – seemed enough freeloaders in that camera shot of the stewards or were they all to busy drinking cola and belching – no slimmies there – if I ran mclaren Iwould save my time and trouble and walk away and leave the lot to stew

  94. What a sad, and very messy start to the season :(
    Let’s hope all have learnt a valuable lesson here

  95. Hey Hamilton’s fans! What is wrong with you?­ Hamilton was claiming he did not deliberetly allow­ Trulli to pass him. But as the radio records shows, he­ received team order to let Trulli go. So Trulli­ overtook him in a fairly way. Hamilton was cheating and­ lying because he wanted to stay on a third place. That­ is way he got punished. So what is so strange in­ stewards’ decision? Very fair I have to say. You­ need to accept that your idol is simply a cheater, a­ liar and a fair play means nothing to him.
    And please, stop your ridiculous declarations that Lewis is a victim of FIA. It is really pathetic.

  96. Trulli will be back in the points once they’ve thrown the Brawns and Rosberg out as well…

    Surely there’s enough dead time while the safety car’s out for the stewards and race control to decide which order the cars should be, and issue orders to the drivers over the radio.

  97. In the midst of all this madness, has anyone realized?

    Sutil has scored Force India’s maiden point.

    1. Holy smokes, you are right!

    2. no he hasn’t, trulli was reinstated into 3rd

  98. How many people have accused Hamilton of lying on here today??!! If you read the report you will see that Hamilton told the truth. It was Whitmarsh who lied.

    your powers of observation should make you good candicates for race stewards or FIA employees.

    Read again:

    “McLaren’s radio communications proved McLaren instructed Hamilton to slow down.

    Hamilton claimed he had been told to let Trulli past (truth), but Whitmarsh said Trulli passed Hamilton of his own accord (lie).”

  99. I cant believe people are blaming the FIA for this. For once, FIA did the right thing. It would have been better if they had settled the issue on Sunday itself but we can blame Lewis and McLaren for that.

    Seriously what were they thinking giving conflicting versions of the story.

  100. If you strip all the surrounding arguments and thoughts (FIA bias, incompetence, Hamilton witchhunt, McLaren witchhunt, whatever) it boils down to this:

    Hamilton lied.

    Lying = punishment. If he hadn’t lied none of this probably would’ve happened. He might be down 1 point at most, but not DQ’ed.

    What are the FIA supposed to do when someone lies? Let them off? OK so the sport takes a few hits on the reputable side through constant decisions like this, but can you imagine the consequences for letting a driver off lying, especially when the evidence is (apparently) solid? Every driver would just do it!

    It’s not only that, so many people look to Hamilton as a hero, and source of inspiration – if it were my kid who saw Hamilton in that light, I wouldn’t want him to think lying was OK as long as it got you further – which is what happened here.

    1. Loki, look at all the facts please. Lewis didn’t lie, he followed team instructions which is exactly what he told everyone else.
      The team didn’t tell the full story which is the reason for the DQ. Which is fair enough.
      Whoever at McLaren decided this would be the best course of action should stand up please…

  101. @Lee: HAM and Whitmarsh made conflicting statements to the media as well, I believe. Quoting Keith from this very blog post:

    “After the race Hamilton and McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh gave conflicting accounts of what happened to reporters: Hamilton claiming he had been told to let Trulli past, Whitmarsh saying Trulli passed Hamilton of his own accord.”

    So you tell me which way the benefit of the doubt should swing given that the stewards aren’t transparent enough (which we all would like to change).

    1. @Kurtosis,

      They are not conflicting accounts at all. The team had not seen the incident and told hamilton to let trulli pass to make sure they were on the correct side of the rules. However there was no communication between hamilton and trulli or mclaren and toyota so trulli made the decision to pass hamilton by himself. This can then be seen by toyota telling trulli to slow and let hamilton re-pass but hamilton decides not to as they are under yellow flag conditions.

      However F1 will continue to be a perpetual farce until the FIA make their decisions more transparent.

  102. What a joke FIA is? A lot of you are saying mclaren should had talk to the race director.. but.. is it of any use? what happen at SPA 08? FIA says they want more fans and more people to watch F1.. did they miss out some words? forgot to add “DOES NOT want”? Crap..

  103. Mclaren at it already….tut tut tut, what else will happen this season!

  104. “Seriously what were they thinking giving conflicting versions of the story.”

    I really wonder the same thing…. really … stupid call.

  105. Ok, for all you Hamilton haters, why would Lewis deliberately let Truli back through to try to get him a penalty? Lewis had passed him, why would he give the place back if he thought he didn’t have to? Surely he’d just stay in 3rd place until the end of the race? Why would McLaren then lie about what they did? McLaren had third place, they only gave the place back because they thought they would be penalised. Its all pretty simple and obvious, all the conspiracies over McLaren’s motives are ridiculous.

  106. bad_whippet
    2nd April 2009, 11:45

    To everyone calling Lewis a ‘cheat’, you clearly haven’t read all the facts.

    No-one, not even the FIA are saying Lewis (or McLaren) lied, simply that they omitted some information which could have helped at the time. There’s a world of difference between the two.

    Besides, it was McLaren that were ‘blamed’, not Lewis… get over the hatred people.

    Another thing that I’m not sure everyone has considered, is why would any team on the grid (let alone one that has had trouble with the stewards and FIA in the past), purposely mislead them when they would know they were likely to get caught out – it just doesn’t make sense to me.

    Interestingly, Martin Whitmarsh had this to say:

    “I believe it was a harsh decision. Lewis made a legitimate pass and then was repassed – at the time the team asked race control several times about the repass but they were too busy to answer that question so we felt the decision in the immediate aftermath was fair”

    1. No-one, not even the FIA are saying Lewis (or McLaren) lied, simply that they omitted some information which could have helped at the time.

      Even my children have tryed to justify themselves that way, and they don’t succeed!!!!

      I guess you did!

    2. Haha, my lil boy is 4 and he tries this on as well :)

      Agreed, while not intentionally lying, not giving all the facts (or representing them in way that is more favourable to yourselves) is tantamount to lying. while the penalty is harsh it has set a prescedent that lying to the stewards is not acceptable and rightly so.

    3. it’s a lie of ommisions and i am extremely disappointed to see such brilliance of maclaren and hamilton stooping to this level.

  107. For a second I thought that this season will be more interesting because of events on the track rather than off it. I guess I was wrong. Let the FIA show begin…

  108. look not saying Maclaren shouldn’t be punished for lying but to call Hamilton a liar when he told the truth, is disgraceful.

    too many Hamilton haters on here today believing what they want to beleive rather than the facts.

    1. Hang on, he said he was distracted by a message on his steering wheel. The FIA found there was no message on his steering wheel at the time. That is a lie. He also said this was the reason he pulled over and slowed down, not that his team had told him to. That is a lie.

  109. Why should they have talked with the race director ? It seems like a simple rule, they should know this rule, they afford hiring several guys which should … only know the rules, it can’t be that difficult, they are professional.
    Anyhow their confusion is not the issue, their lie is. They have almost made Trulli lose all his points because of them trying to look like professional when they were worse than amateurs.

  110. Having read through all the comments (including the patently emotional/biased ones) it appears that the f1fanatic needs to set up a “Shadow Referee committee” during live blog under Keith’s Chairmanship with perhaps 2 experienced members. The committee then calls the race and penalties as it sees fit and has to give their verdict of the race within 3 hours of the finish (in order to pick up unseen footage from youtube etc. We can then have a “real championship table” and not be at the mercy of Max, Bernie and their willing sycophants. This final table is ones we all can have fun with. At least we can then give FOTA some ideas on how to run a proper rules and common sense based show.

  111. Bigbadderboom
    2nd April 2009, 11:50

    One thing is clear from all these posts, there are some very bitter F1 fans out there, Most hamilton fans I know actually support the stewards in correcting their mistake in awarding Hamilton 3rd.

    It’s the manner which it is done that is the issue, a full investigation should have been made with ALL evidence required. It is the incompetence that is the embarrasment to F1. Hamilton has rightly been punished, but clarity is needed

    So all you anti-Hamiltons out there stop twisting the issue you just sound bitter and twisted, personally I support all f1 drivers and certainly do not HATE anybody, stop spewing this immature hatred (whatever your reasons) and comment constuctivley.

  112. Dun believe FIA is against Mclaren OR the main team that is fighting Ferrari? look at wad happen to alonso in 05 or 06? What did alonso said? “F1 is no longer a sports”
    could not agree more?

  113. @gazzap

    What do you call saying “I had to look at something on the screen and this is why I slowed down, no one told me to slow down” and then you see that nothing was on the screen and the radio recording saying him to slow down ?

    I’m a huge fan of Hamilton’s but McLaren screwed up bigtime this time. I suspect it was not Hamilton decision to lie(as he told the truth in an interview), but probably the team told him to to so.

  114. First race of the season and they already up to speed in deciding the grid, the race result, and of course the grid of the next race. Great, just what F1 needed in times like these…

  115. Now that Hamilton has been “punished” for trickery and deception, will the Brown racing team, Toyotas and all those with double diffuser be punished for using illegal tools(double diffusers).

  116. Do we think McLaren allowed Trulli to repass to induce penalty on Toyota?

  117. bad_whippet
    2nd April 2009, 11:56

    This is an extract from James Allen’s blog (link posted above by Mr Soap):

    “The suggestion being voiced here is that the FIA considers this matter so serously that it is considering taking this matter to the World Motor Sport Council where further sanctions might be applied.”

    You have got to be kidding…

    Regardless of which team/driver you support, you’ve got to admit this is ridiculous and a step waaaaay too far.

    1. yeah this is blowing out of proportion.

    2. They just don’t want Lewis in F1. Period!

  118. Plain incompetence on the part of the FIA. What do we need these people for?

  119. @Erico,

    Should Toyota have even been allowed to race at all after running an illegal car in qualifying? Should Ferrari be penalised for running illegal turning veins on their sidepods?

  120. I just find this whole looking at a message on the ECU a bit odd, as I’ve said, McLaren must have known that the stewards could have checked that. So why lie?

    1)To get an extra place maintaining that Trulli passed illegally (which if were true then Hamilton/McLaren would certainly go down in my estimations).

    2)Because they thought (maybe not unreasonably) that the stewards would go against them and give Trulli the 3rd they thought they deserved. This, while somewhat unfair, (as they couldn’t check with Charlie Whiting and were probably just being cautious about getting penalised themselves for overtaking under the SC even if Trulli did go off) would have been better than them lying and being disqualified, which as I’ve said surely they must’ve known would have been found out and if true was stupid of them.

    3)Because they thought they would get a penalty for slowing to let Trulli past, which sad as I am to say wouldn’t have surprised me.

    But I still arrive at the conclusion that it was more stupid to lie, which while I wish wasn’t true, certainly appears that way. And as a Hamilton/McLaren fan I find that disappointing and even embarrassing.

    So either theyre stupid cheats (in which case they get what they deserve), plain stupid or the FIA have somehow twisted things, which while they have IMO unfairly punished Hamilton/McLaren in the past would seem to go beyond anything they have previosuly done.

    It’s just sad that by not allowing communication with the race controller or by thinking through different scenarios under the safety car that the FIA have ruined another race for me and have brought the “sport” into further disrepute.

  121. “The suggestion being voiced here is that the FIA considers this matter so serously that it is considering taking this matter to the World Motor Sport Council where further sanctions might be applied.”

    Can FOTA get FIA’s m0r0ns to look at this forum and see what other people view is? ******** fia

  122. I don’t think it can be proved Lewis lied to gain advantage. The fact is, Jarno broke the rules. The FIA are culpable for not correcting the situation during the race (and not being available, from what I can tell to do so) so all that should happen is that the results are taken back to Trulli 3rd, Lewis 4th and then Lewis rapped over the knuckles for being a naughty boy and given a suspended sentence.

    But no. The FIA pretends it’s all one person’s fault, let someone (Trulli) get away with breaking the rules (which are rubbery anyway, so he’s not 100% to blame either) and then gives Lewis the harshest penalty they think they can get away with.

    Lewis should have been sanctioned in some way but that does not change the fact Trulli broke the rules. Rubens broke the rules by causing an avoidable accident and also drove into Kimi, but got away with it. Vettel and Kubica effectively took each other out yet Vettel wore the punishment. None of this is anti-McLaren, it’s just all over the shop.

    I don’t think the FIA are organised enough for an anti-McLaren conspiracy, to be honest. They’re too busy punishing and not punishing teams and drivers who are nothing to do with McLaren.

  123. well they didn’t ‘lie’ but they deliberately mislead.

    magicians deliberately mislead, they don’t lie, they just show one thing to try and get another thing.

    1. @TODD,

      Please show the proof that they “Deliberatley” Mislead. It seems to me that this has all been caused by both teams being very confused by the rules. This in itself says a lot about the state of F1. This could all have been cleared up by race control during the race (or could it on evidence from spa).

      Until the FIA become transparent we will never know.

    2. hey i’m just going by what gets put out there.

    3. well we do know now.

      During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

  124. So many Hamilton haters here…

  125. had Hamilton done what Barrichello did (caused crash) he would have been thrown out of th f1 season for good!
    the FIA want to kill Maclaren.

  126. Wait… surely McLaren told Hamilton to give Trulli the place back – because they were afraid he had overtaken Trulli under SC and would later get penalised? If that is the case, which I would understand given Spa, this is absurd.

    Why would Hamilton try and cheat when he’s got at least 4th, a fantastic result given his car?!

    1. the Sri lankan
      2nd April 2009, 12:23

      because he’s a cheat. thats why

  127. I think a few people are missing the point. We realise McLaren lied… the point is, the Stewards/FIA should have known this 4 days ago. A decision should never have been made without reviewing ALL the evidence in the first place!

    1. Indeed.

      They open the case because “new evidence” appears. How is a radio conversation “new evidence”? This should have been “old evidence”.

  128. the Sri lankan
    2nd April 2009, 12:21

    OOOOH what a feeling!!!!!!!!! finally some justice! i hate lewis’s personality with a passion. people think alonso is dirty, but now get a firsthand experience of the real Hamilton! by the way i support Toyota and Jarno so kiss that Mclaren and all you lewis lovers

    1. May need to do some more reading mate. Hamilton was honest. McLaren on the other hand, were not. Don’t pile McLaren’s shame onto Lewis’s shoulders.

    2. lewis lied on behalf of maclaren, he should have higher morals than this

  129. Ok, Ok, let put it like this:

    act 1. Trulli runs out of track on safety car phase
    act 2. Scared stiff (of FIA) Hamilton is not so sure and let’s Trulli back to 3rd.
    act 3. FIA punishes the rule breaker (Truli) meanwhile the Liar ( cause he’s scared of FIA) gets away with it atleast for the time being.
    act 4. After some few days FIA backtracks and punishes the Liar (remember he lied because he was scared stiff) and lets the Rule breaker gets away with

    act 5. coming soon courtesy of FIA…….?????

    1. 5. Alonso wins the race after the diffusers are found to be illegal!

  130. I just don’t get why McLaren would ‘deliberately mislead’ they stewards though. They could easily be found out and the consequences of that we have seen today. I cannot comprehend why, knowing that, they would do something like that, it just doesn’t make any sense to me. Unless they thought the stewards wouldn’t find out, which would be, I think, incredibly naive.

  131. @ Lee,

    The following statements are inconsistent:
    1. Hamilton was instructed to let Trulli past and _acted_ on these instructions
    2. Trulli passed Hamilton of his own volition (is it a “pass” anymore?)

    Because, while there was no _audio_ communication between Hamilton and Trulli, Hamilton clearly gave a visual signal by moving wide of the racing line and slowing down considerably (how else did he act on the instructions, do you think?). This was a clear _signal_ to Trulli, and hence _a_ communication.

    Trulli would have been justified in thinking Lewis had gear selection problems again, a la Brazil 07.

    (I’m responding to your earlier response to me, not your subsequent comments).

  132. Hamilton and McLaren (seem to have) lied.
    They will not appeal.
    Enough said.

  133. @The Sri Lankan

    And toyota ran an illegal car in qualifying but were till allowed to race……..

    This is not about whether you like hamilton or not, it is about the way the FIA are destroying F1. These things should be cleared up during the race but the FIA would rather have this farce play out for days afterwards. Vettel is also an innocent punished unfairly by the FIA and yet Ferrari yet again are not even investigated for their (possibly illegal) car. Also either toyota hid the rear wing from the scrutineers or the scrutineers are hopeless. F1 is a total mess.

    1. Toyota were allowed to race as they rectified the problem before race time. It has happened before and will probably happen again.

  134. a small punishment for what Lewis/McLaren did. In any serious sports the duo would have been suspended for months. However, the F1 structure, with all its dependence on sponsors, does not allow this.

  135. Looks like they’ve managed to ruin it from the off. Whichever of the three result fiddles deserves to stand, there really should be stricter rules about buggering about with the results after the weekends over

  136. @Kurtosis,

    I agree that Trulli did not act unfairly. However the two statements are fine. As I said, trulli made that decision under a yellow flag. He could have radioed back and toyota could have asked mclaren what their intentions were (after all this was not split second decisons here). Afterwards Toyota did the same but Hamilton chose not to overtake the obviously slow toyota as they were under yellow flag conditions. However this is the perfect situation for race control to sort out, however you can understand why mclaren would not trust their advise even id Max had not told the teams not to bother race control for these things.

    In my opinion both Trulli and Hamilton are innocent victims of the grey F1 rules and useless leadership of the FIA. The fair results would be to leave them as they finished or to swap their places around. As it is F1 fans have again been treated to an utter farce. Don’t forget that 5 of the top 8 (including trulli himself) could still be affected by the stupid diffuser row! We will not find out the real result of this race until april 14th!!!!!

  137. “Lewis was instructed to give the place back to Trulli,” said Whitmarsh. “The team thought, having not seen the incident, that it was the safest thing to do. That instruction was given to Lewis and he didn’t agree. Before that discussion was finished, Trulli had been passed. If we look at the speed traces and compare it to other periods, he didn’t do anything abnormal and it’s quite clear that Lewis shouldn’t have passed him. As soon as that happened we spoke to race control to ask if we could retake the place. race control was busy and couldn’t answer us.”

    OK I’m probably being dense but I don’t understand what bold bit means. Does passed here mean let past?

    Anyways after reading JA’s blog the point of contention is whether, thinking the stewards had access to the radio transmissions Hamilton simply omitted the radio bit (which even thinking they had, you could agrue he could have given a summary, knwoing they could check) or whether he left that out purposefully, to mislead, which wouldn’t make sense to me

  138. I was going to get up for free practice, but not any more. It sounds like McLaren and/or Hamilton has indeed done wrong here – but I thought the stewards had access to all the team audio so surely they can judge objectively for themselves? Obviously not.

    Is Donnelly still involved with the stewards this season?

    A big mess.

  139. And now Braun, Toyota and Williams disqualified for their difuser and…

    Alonso GP Australia WINNER!!!

  140. @Lee,

    I see, so you’re saying Trulli had other options than to simply assume Hamilton had problems with the car, and that he could have explored them. And that there was no way McLaren knew about Trulli’s interpretation, hence the statements are consistent. That’s one way of looking at it, but I’m hard pressed to understand what McLaren expected Trulli to do – they sort of put him on the spot there.

    I wasn’t aware teams could communicate with each other over the radio, has that happened in the past?

    The post-race uncertainty is a shame though. It doesn’t really bother me, but the drivers must hate it and I would not be surprised if a larger than expected number of drivers retire at the end of this season if this sort of thing continues.

  141. I agree with so many of the comments, I have followed F1 for years and go to the british GP every year, but I am so fed up with the blatent politics this year will be my last.

  142. Instead of celebrating Buttons win, we are once again busy with Hamilton, and FIA seems to have nothing to do than chase him when winning and even harder when losing.

  143. @Kurtosis,

    All the teams sit on the pit wall. It would only take someone to run over to mclaren to sort it out.

    Yes I am saying that Trulli had a choice, just like Hamilton had a choice to retake again but didn’t. I am not saying what Trulli did was wrong though. I am merely pointing out that the two statements do not necessarily contradict each other. One states that Mclaren asked Hamilton to slow down in order to allow trulli to pass, the other states that trulli made this actual decision to pass all by himself. Both are true statements no matter how it looked to trulli at the time.

    You can’t tell me that race control could not have sorted it out at the time though and avoided this whole mess.

  144. S. Hughes, I think you might be right. Maybe now with Lewis’s reputation at stake, both father and son will come to the conclusion to call it a day. It’s not possible to carry on like this for the next 10 years.

  145. rob from inverness
    2nd April 2009, 12:59

    Some organisation have form. Over several seasons. I am old enough to remember the old gag: “How do you know when Richard Nixon is lying?” Answer: “When his lips move….”

  146. Hey Keith, in their statement the FIA says that the stewards were mislead by Lewis himself. I can see Shumi nodding in approval: This boy will be big as soon as he gets smarter – One doesn’t lie to the officials and then tell the press the truth kiddo!

  147. @ Lee,

    Thanks, I see now how those two statements can be seen as not contradictory. It’s sort of like Hamilton saying to Trulli: “I’m giving you room, but it’s still up to you to take it or leave it – your decision.”

    The problem with asking race control to decide things in real-time is that two or more separate events happening close together chronologically will completely upset their ability to monitor and manage the race. It is just not possible for a finitely staffed race control to reliably offer real-time advice all the time in a grand prix race. They could try, but they’d fail.

  148. trulli 3rd, hammie 4th, imo

  149. I think they want to see him (Hamilton) drive behind and never infront of anybody, they want to acheive this by all means.

  150. Having read Autosports quite probing interview of Martin Whitmarsh I don’t know what to believe any more. What I do know though is that the system just does not work.

    The FIA should not rush these decisions. They should mark the event as under investigation and then only announce the action once proper care and deliberation has been taken.

    They should get from all cars involved all the “black box” and GPS Logging data, and also the complete radio transmissions in that period. With this information they can virtually recreate the event (the technology exists to show it all very well) and replay it over and over. If anything is missing, get it. Only after forming a view should they then go through the replay with the teams involved.

    Where, beyond any doubt, a penalty can be applied then apply it. But, if there is even the smidgenist of doubt the race result stands.

    1. Having just read that article I wholeheartedly agree with you Dougie.

      While you could argue as MW said that McLaren could have been more explicit, it really comes down to the stewards and the FIA not being thorough enough. They really need to get their act together, this is just embarrassing.

  151. The good thing to do was give Hamilton P3 and Trulli p4.
    It was a bit of a confusing story for both parties.
    And with race control not being able to help them out…

    But it really looks like the FIA really hates McLaren and wants to take them down at every little oppertunity they can get.

    Also the radio conversations are wide open now, so I would think the FIA/Stewards already had this… probably McLaren was thinking the same.

    If they take this to the wmsc we should all be sending some fia hate-mails imo :)

  152. Incompetence:

    1. Trulli, not staying on the track under the SC (!).
    2. FIA stewards, not realizing (??) that Hamilton/McLaren had deliberately let Trulli re-pass.
    3. McLaren, deciding that – given the FIA stewards were indeed that dumb – they could ‘maximize’ their chances of ONE more point by claiming Lewis had slowed down for another reason, not to cede the place.
    4. FIA/F1 for not allowing the race controller to sort this out on the spot. F1 has the technology and cash virtually sufficient to land someone on the moon and can’t organize a basic call like this?

    Hamilton, in my view, was wrong only in agreeing to argue his team’s line during his talk with the FIA stewards. He didn’t do this particularly well, given he told one or more sources he’d been told by the team to let Trulli pass. Even more bizarre, Haug said the same! (As far as I can remember.)

    I think F1 needs to go towards a referree/umpire set-up where some of these race incident decisions are taken very quickly during the race by a ref (race controller, whatever) and are to all purposes uncontestable: i.e. the result stands. Like most other sports. Mistakes will be made but it will help rid F1 of a lot of this litigation and politicking climate, which is seriously damaging the sport’s reputation – though maybe the ‘owners’ of F1 (MM, BE) don’t really care.

    1. McLaren claims that Hamilton was told by the team to let Trulli pass, but that he disagreed.

      So that allows both that Hamilton said that he was told to let Trulli pass AND that he didn’t do this on purpose on track.

    2. That’s interesting Patrick and obviously makes a difference. But did Hamilton tell the FIA stewards this? And does the team’s radio conversation with Hamilton and the telemetry back this up? If so, it’d be good to see Hamilton’s name being cleared of the accusation of deliberately misleading FIA, at least.

    3. Trying to read between the lines of Whitmarsh’s responses, Hamilton was busy arguing with McLaren that he didn’t need to let Trulli pass when Trulli went past! MW claims he didn’t particularly slow down. Plausible. As I mentioned elsewhere, Trulli’s claim that he thought LH ‘had a problem’ seems disingenuous to me, however much he’s now claiming a victory for honesty. But that’s by-the-by. With no film of the incident, it’s difficult to tell.

      The question is why the hell McLaren told Lewis not to mention their radio chat to the FIA inquiry? Did they think the stewards would think he had, in fact, slowed down under team orders? The problem they’ve generated now is that HAD Hamilton explained the situation as happened, it would be up to FIA to disprove he was lying. In other words, they would presumably accept his word, unless they had evidence to the contrary. Now, though, by not mentioning everything, he’s gained a track record with FIA of NOT telling it as it was – meaning FIA, rightly, should be doubtful of him and the team in the future. Not clever. The disqualification seems correct.

    4. prove he was lying, I mean

  153. Well at least i get my fantasy points back! LOL. but on a real…this is ridiculous! did stewards and the FIA mess with results like this back in the 60s and 70s when it was purely about racing??!

    I am a hamilton fan i must admit, if it wasnt for him i probably wouldn’t even be watching F1 (sort of like how a lot of black americans wouldn’t be interested in politics if it wasnt for obama)(no im not american) There are plenty people who hate lewis for their own ‘personal’ reasons, but he has conducted himself very well in the media given all the controversy constantly swirling around him and i have yet to see why some people hate him so much. So that must leave it to 1 thing (only the blind wouldn’t be able to figure it out)

    With that said, the problem comes down to the organisational management (FIA). They have a very power oriented centralized autocratic structure. everything revolves around bernie and max and everyone else reports to them. the problem is that neither bernie nor max are professionals on the subject (neither are the stewards apparently) so its left to the incompetence of the stewards to make a decision. The underlying point is that the FIA is stuck in a culture that we all have seen (post race meddling), no matter what rule changes they make they still stick to their old ways. The only way to change this is to get rid of the people there, change the culture and change the structure with new faces. Otherwise F1 will be doomed! lol.

  154. schumi the greatest
    2nd April 2009, 13:21

    ridicluous!! so hamilton scores no points atall now

  155. As I state in my blog I think the bigger problem here isn’t Hamilton being disqualified, but the whole stewarding system. If the stewards don’t have all the information available at the time of a hearing they shouldn’t be doing the hearing, simple as.

  156. The Autosport interview with Whitmarsh (Dougie’s link above), brings up many more questions than it answers. There are now a lot of conflicting remarks flying around.

    It looks like MW is now saying the team did not ask Lewis to let Trulli through, and that Lewis maintained his line and speed throughout the period.

  157. But if Whitmarsh went to the Stewards to claim wrongdoing by Trulli, when there was no such thing, then certainly a penalty is in order.
    I think Hammy is being honest, it doesn’t serve his purpose not to be, when everyone can see nearly all that happened on the track.
    My main question is – did McLaren have to find a Steward to report the incident to, and did they take Toyota with them to report it? Or would a Steward seek out McLaren and Toyota off their own initiative?
    Perhaps if McLaren could get straight answers from the FIA they wouldn’t be this messed up!

  158. Weasel Chops
    2nd April 2009, 13:33

    While I think there are legitimate concerns about the way rules are enforced, I don’t think there’s any doubt in this case that McLaren/Hamilton was at fault.

    Anyone willing to lie at a stewards enquiry (light on steering wheel etc), and then sit back as Trulli got punished as a result of that lie, deserves nothing less than to be disqualified.

  159. @Kurtosis,

    You could be right as they struggle to make simple decisions (ie slow to get safety car out after Nakajimas crash) let alone more complex ones. However this is standard practice in most US race series and it seems to work fine (although you could argue that they only have to watch an oval track ;-) ).

  160. It’s impressive how FIA manage to get a controversy out of the most minor misunderstanding.

  161. That’s what you get for lying. Just punishment. But I do agree that communications need to improve.

  162. According to Whitmarsh, it appears Hamilton was in argument with his team when Trulli re passed him.

  163. I think the FIA decision to DQ Hamilton was right, given
    that he clearly lied to the stewards.
    But I think you can’t blame him for trying to up his place :)

    1. Were you at the hearing? No, didn’t think so. Therefore, nothing is ‘clear’. We don’t get to hear the radio conversations. :(

  164. @Jayson

    As you have not even seen the transcripts from the stewards enquiries I find it amazing that you can be so confident of Hamilton clearly lying to the stewards.

  165. @Lee.

    People are using “Lie” as synonymous with “Deliberately Mislead” which is in the Stewards’ ruling. There is a further premise that the stewards are unbiased and accurate in their verdict.

    These are not unreasonable premises in any sport.

  166. Has the whole slowed to read a message on ECU about the safety car been confirmed?

    Because with MW saying that the telemetry shows LH maintained his speed, then this safety care excuse seems even more outlandish (on top of the fact LH had already said he had been told to let Trulli past and knowing the stewards had access to the radio).

    So did LH actually say that about the safety car? Because if not then the only issue is that McLaren weren’t explicit enough, which seems ridiculous to penalise someone so severely for, when the stewards have it within their power to check all the details.

    1. “Has the whole slowed to read a message on ECU about the safety car been confirmed?”

      I mean I know he didn’t do that but has it been confirmed LH told the stewards that?

  167. Whatever hamilton did or didn’t say, the real culprit behind all this is the McLaren leadership. Before they went to see the stewards, they would have known the true facts and they would have decided their strategy at the stewards meeting. Hamilton is their employee and if he had said that he wanted to lie to the stewards then they should have told him no. If, on the other hand, McLaren themselves had decided to lie, Hamilton is in a difficult position. Does he take the moral high groung and contradict his employer or follow the party line. Either way, the McLaren management are in the wrong.
    In my opinion, Hamilton needs to leave McLaren. There are too many instances now of McLaren being caught and he is being tarnished by the same brush.

    1. The question of the ‘lie’ seems to hinge on whether Hamilton said he slowed down to look at SC instructions which, apparently, weren’t available at this point of the race. That’s a lie. Did he say this?

      If not, the question is ‘withholding all relevant information’, namely the radio conversation between LH and the team – which, supposedly, FIA had at their disposal from the outset.

      The situation’s weird because McLaren seem to have tried to hide this conversation without this conversation being relevant to the incident! Presuming it’s true that Trulli passed without LH appreciably slowing down.

    2. And btw, I also think Hamilton should think of a move to Ferrari if the offer’s there.

  168. I don’t know the F1 rule book in any detail. I watch F1 for elite racing and exceptional driving talent in highly engineered bespoke cars.

    The race should be over once the cars have crossed the line, and positions should not be in contention for any significant time after. By singificant I’m talking minutes (before award ceremony) not hours, day or weeks.
    This uncertainty about the result is putting me and many people I know off the sport.

    For what it’s worth, my view is that teams should not be protesting against one another, or trying to change or influence results during or after the race (other than racing). That is the job of the stewards.
    Stewards should reserve the right to penalise or not any infringements as they see fit. Any infringments that are missed, are missed.

    I’ve never commented like this before, but I feel like the sport is getting itself into a real mess.

  169. Everyone is banging on as if this is something new to F1. Back in 1976 James Hunt won the British GP the subsequently lost it in the court of appeal. So whilst I agree that it is frustrating, it is the way F1 has been run since it began.

    1. I was just thinking the same while I was out gardening, F1 has always lived on the track and in the court room. It’s not right but it is the way it is.

  170. Apparently F1.com will be sharing some of the data from the decision making process later today.

  171. That is a black eye for Hamilton, doesn’t looks good when he has to lie to hold onto undeserved points, maybe he was worried about the cars performance and thought that could have been his only podium of the year. I am disappointed with Hamilton, I expected more from him.

  172. This is an absolutely OUTRAGEOUS move by the FIA. Hamilton was honest with the media and told them that he had been instructed to let Trulli pass back through. McLaren were the ones who deceived everyone.

    Hamilton should be allowed to keep his driver points for 4th place. If anything, McLaren should be the ones who are DQ’ed from receiving Constructor points.

  173. @ Keith,

    I wonder why but I’m pretty sure the data released by Formula1.com will turn out to be inconclusive. We’ll see how it turns out.

  174. Since when does a discussion between driver and pit crew change what the stewards witness on the track? Does saying..”pit told me to do this” ever validate a rules violation?

  175. @Kurtosis,

    That may be, But I for one do not agree that the Stewards can be assumed to be honest. In spa last year it was shown how farcical the whole system is. Charlie Whiting initially agreed that Hamilton had given the place back then he was the one that actually kicked off the appeal. The only person to interview the drivers was Alan Donnelly who is only an advisor and should not have anything at all do do with the actual stewarding (He is of course also director of a company which has done a huge amount of work for ferrari in the past). Then the actual stewards sign the decision even though they have not had the chance to interview the drivers themselves. The whole issue goes to appeal where for some reason Ferrari are present in both team and as a representative sitting on the appeals panel. Add this to the know feud between Max and Ron and you have a situation where people just do not trust the FIA at all. Of course there may be no bias or dodgy dealings at all but as the FIA refuse to publish all of the rules and refuse to publish the detailed findings of appeals etc it is hard to believe that they are honest at all. Why for instance have they so far refused to even look at investigating the alleged rule breaking car of Ferrari? Why did renault get away scott free with having mclaren data freely available on their network while mclaren were hit with a huge fine for having ferrari data in the hands of a few people. Why was massa allowed to pass off track last season but hamilton was not? We will never know the answers to these questions until the FIA stop being so secretive.

  176. FIA Statement http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9115.html

    During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.

    a. Immediately after the race and before Lewis Hamilton attended the Stewards Meeting he gave an interview to the Media where he clearly stated that the Team had told him to let Trulli pass.

    b. Furthermore, the radio exchanges between the driver and the Team contain two explicit orders from the Team to let the Toyota pass.

    The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager which led to Jarno Trulli being unfairly penalised and Lewis Hamilton gaining third place.

    1. As Patrick pointed out, this presumes Lewis followed team instructions.

      A fair procedure would be for FIA, hgaving learned he was told to let Trulli pass, to ask Hamilton, again, if he had disregarded the team order?

      If he said yes, FIA would have to ‘prove’ that he probably did in fact obey the order by slowing down.

      FIA makes no mention of other evidence (telemtry or visual).

      So I’d conclude that the FIA judgement is seriously flawed.

      Unless, of course, FIA are withholding information on their decision!

  177. It’s clear that FIA has no credibility amongst F1 fans.
    But I doubt that race stewards would deliberately misinterpret Hamilton’s and McLaren’s statements.
    I understood that Hamilton’s DQ is because he told the race stewards that MacLaren had not told him to let anybody pass what contradicted the radio transcript.

  178. Well, here is the crux of the matter:

    The FIA claim Hamilton and McLaren said there had been no instruction to Hamilton telling him to let Trulli by.

    McLaren claim they did not lie to the FIA.

    It seems extraordinary to me that Hamilton – or any driver for that matter – would give one version of events to the press, and discuss it on publicly-available radio transmissions, and then give a different account to the FIA. If he did do that, how can he have expected the FIA to do anything other than punish him very severely?

    However, and I’m going to keep coming back to this, the whole mess could and should have been sorted out much more quickly and without all this controversy.

    Race control could have told Hamilton and Trulli to swap positions, or they could have changed their order after the race. But by excluding first one driver and then the other it’s clear the stewards are not capable of running a race without letting it descend into acrimony.

    1. Keith, as Patrick pointed out above and as Whitmarsh implied in his statement, it is possible McLaren/Hamilton didn’t lie: LH was told to let Trulli pass, but didn’t do so, at least deliberately: Trulli went pass of his own accord without LH braking appreciably.

      This scenario can only be refuted if the conversation contains LH saying ‘OK, I’ll let him pass’ or he in fact slowed down so much Trulli had no option. Even then, Hamilton could claim another reason for slowing down (which some sources claim he did: here I’m confused). Then there’s a grey area: LH slows down a bit and Trulli passes – maybe presuming he’s being let past, maybe not.

      As it stands the FIA statement clarifies little or nothing – as usual.

    2. Having read the radio transcript, please ignore..!

      Stupid indeed.

    3. Or maybe not…

    4. Very right there!
      They are still humans in those cars (and at the pit), they do make mistakes and shouldn’t be punished for every little thing (unless it’s really dangerous or wrong)

  179. MacademiaNut
    2nd April 2009, 14:30

    Let’s just get on with the race.

    I think that HAM should have just told the truth to the stewards. Shame on McLaren and HAM for lying to the stewards, if they indeed did.

  180. New Autosport article ‘The full decision by the FIA stewards’


    It seems to say that the initial hearing was held 1 hour after the race, and the stewards did not have access to the radio transmissions, or to media comments McLaren and Hamilton had made after the race. However they did have access to video recordings of both overtaking moves (I did not know these existed).

    The new elements that have suddenly appeared a few days after the race to re-open the investigation are that they found out Hamilton had told the media the team had told him to let Trulli through in interviews after the race but before the hearing took place. And that in the radio exchanges McLaren told Hamilton to let Trulli through.

    This just makes the initial hearing which penalised Trulli look a bit inept to me.

  181. On the bottom of the PDF file of the radio transmission I just noticed the date


    Paris, April 3, 2009

    The FIA have a time machine now, they should use it to go back and sort it out on Sunday after the race.

  182. it just gets worse

    Mosley and his minions get the whip out again…

    hes a sick man, an utter control freak, the delegates making these decisions are from poor countries under his manipulations


  183. Transcript of the radio transmission between Lewis Hamilton and McLaren during the Australian Grand Prix:

    Team: OK Lewis, you should need to make sure your delta is positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn’t matter but no overtaking. No overtaking.

    Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, …, is this OK?

    Team: Understood, Lewis. We’ll confirm and get back to you.

    LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

    Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

    LH: OK.

    LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.

    Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

    LH: I let him past already.

    Team: OK, Lewis. That’s fine. That’s fine. Hold position. Hold position.

    LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.

    Team: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G 5, yellow Golf 5.

    LH: I don’t have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.

    Team: Yes, we understand Lewis. Let’s just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now. You are in P4. If you hold this position. Just keep it together.

    Team: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrot 2.

    LH: Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.

    Team: Still waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

    Team: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

    Team: If we are able to use one KERS that would be good. If you deploy KERS please do so now.

    Team: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

  184. In the FIA link there is the full radio conversation between HAM and the team. HAM clearly states “I let him past already” and “I just let him past”. Also available in the transcript:

    Big screw-up, there is no disagreement from Lewis at all (he says “OK” on the first instruction to let Trulli past). Even MW’s recent comments don’t really make sense anymore.

    1. LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.

      LH: I let him past already.

      One possible reading:

      Trulli accelerated to re-take his position (and then ‘slowed right down in front’ of Hamilton) and Hamilton didn’t defend – which he expresses as ‘I let him past.’

      This seems likely. But McLaren thought that the conversation would be ‘comprising’ – hence their decision NOT to mention it IF FIA – who should have had the radio conversation themselves – didn’t mention it.

  185. It’s all pretty damming stuff to be honest. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lewis calls it a day. Wouldn’t that be a result for f1.

  186. I never heard any instructions to let trulli pass !!!

    1. At the start, the team tells him to let the Toyota driver through, then they revert this order.

  187. Well it seems the FIA are starting to release the relevant information, hopefully we will get everything such as all video footage, the telemetry of the cars in question to answer if Hamilton slowed dramatically to let Trulli past. And obviously most importantly transcripts from the stewards meeting so we can see what McLaren and Hamilton actually said to the stewards.

    Does anyone know what records exist should exist from a stewards meeting of this kind? Is there a recording of everything that was actually said, are minutes kept of the discussions or do the drivers etc just have to sign a statement saying what they believe to be true.

    Considering the punishment is entirely based on what was said in this meeting, without knowing what was said it is hard to decide whether the punishment is just or not.

    The only conclusion I have reached so far is that the stewards did not do a very thorough job before they decided to punish Trulli. Also the whole affair has been handled very badly, but then I have come to expect that in F1.

  188. Hmm… I wonder if they have the transcripts of the interview with stewards and Hamilton.
    Anywho, wasn’t Trulli given a 25 second penalty which equals stop and go, thing that can’t be appealed?
    I totally agree with Niki Lauda who said that it’s the joke of the year that it took FIA four days to figure this out. Seems to me that the fastest sport in the world has the slowest referees.

    1. hardly a joke – 4 days is realistic.

      you have to realise that they, like everyone else required for the meeting were in transit from australia to melbourne and had to schedule a meeting where everyone could attend.

      things take time in the real world.

  189. Stop whining. The point is clear: Hamilton and McLaren lied. That’s all. Shame for them.

  190. http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9115.html

    i really love this new transparency into the FIA, this is what the public needs, explanations no how they come to their conclusions.

    last years massa overtaking vettel in fuju video was a great insight into their decisions – poor decision it was, but at least there’s more transparency.

  191. it seems staggering to me that MW’s comments are all twisted. Did he just lied the media ? He said Lewis didn’t want to let Trulli past. He didn’t seem to argue in the transcript. I’m kind of losing a lot of the respect for the team. Can’t they just be honest ?

  192. @Kurtosis,

    This all seems very muddled. It seems that Lewis could indeed interpret the conversation as not an explicit decision as he was initially told to let trulli past, then he questioned it saying that he had left the track then the team told him to hold his position in front at which point trulli was already past and slowing to let hamilton re-pass. So maclaren are correct in saying that there was no order to let trulli past as they had cancelled the original order however the fact that the original order was in there muddles the whole thing. It seems that both Lewis and Mclaren were getting confused with each others orders.

    However why was this not available to the stewards at the time? I am now pretty sure this whole thing was just complete confusion between both mclaren and lewis and toyota and trulli and their actions between each other. This does not change the fact that it should have been fully investigated at the time rather than waiting until now. The stewards should have access to all the appropriate evidence before they make a decision.

  193. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7978186.stm

    The video shows the onboard cammra from Trulli when he passed Hamilton

    1. Interesting comment from Martin Brundle at the end of that report. Assuming what he said is true that Lewis had dropped to 15mph then all the evidence I am seeing does not bode well for Hamilton and McLaren.

      I have a bad feeling this is not the end of it, and worse is yet to come for the team and driver.

  194. What the stewards should be interested in looking at is the telemetry and not radio conversations. THat way they can establish if Lewis really slowed down. Its possible Trulli may have passed him before the team had instructed him to let him go.

    1. That isn’t the point any more though.

      What happened on track is no longer being discussed, it is what happened behind closed doors when Hamilton was asked a direct question.

  195. By the way, who is the guy talking to Lewis in the radio ? HOW can he tell Lewis “let him go by” when Lewis specifically told him that the toyota went wide and he went off the track. The guy talking to the radio didn’t seem to have any knowledge of the regulation… otherwise why would he say that ? He seems to be the one who generated the mess, because after he gave that instruction, Lewis did what he said, then the guy changed his mind … this is staggering……

  196. Racism and fascism???

    Man some of your commenters have issues.

    The FIA could be the worst thing in motorsport, but making the jump to racism is just psycho.

    Hamilton is a brilliant driver, and had a brilliant drive. Call it fate. Bad call.

    It is horrible that FIA cannot fix these issues during the race, though. Probably because taking a well-thought decision during the race is not possible due to time constraints, they prefer to leave it for later so drivers and teams can make all the mistakes they want, and then deal with the consequences after the later.

    By the time they would go through their rule books to tell McLaren to let Trulli pass, forget the safety car period, the race would be over.

    I dont see the way out here. If the rules are so complex that you cant give a clear and correct verdict during the race, then how do you run this thing!

  197. And in the end, the harsh thing is not the penalty as MW said, it is the fact that the team and Lewis lied the stewards, it is quite obvious. A strange thing to do especially as they are aware that the radio communication is available to the stewards …. really strange. Very strange management technique at McLaren …. very strange

    1. @Kester – and you mean that drivers are penalized for actions outside track and when race is finished ?:)
      why stewards don’t look video footage, telemetry, listen to radio and then decide … whole thing about talking with drivers is silly … I don’t get the idea of taking media statement as evidence … and don’t get the idea of driver hearing in front of stewards .. what is that? children garden? mammy mammy he pass me … it is clear that every pilot have own view what happened, but actions are done … so just view all evidences and take decision and that is …

      come on … there was no need for first penalty anyway …

  198. What if the team told Lewis to slow down, but he didnt slow down…Does that mean Trulli is still in the right?

    1. Again this isn’t the point any more, on track action isn’t being discussed. It’s what Hamilton told the stewards after the race.

    2. @Kester – sorry just read above comment … wrong place for reply …

  199. Surely the game Bernie and Max are playing is a lot more subtle; they need to get FOTA fighting amongst themselves over the season and the best way is to pick on McLaren and LH who they dislike anyway + plus get the emotional/less thoughtful fans on the sidelines rooting for one thing or another.(bit like a Roman arena with Max as Emperor); This obscures Max’s real intent and in the meantime provide a daggerish hint to Red Bull (Vettel) and Brawn (Reuben and his slamming Mark and Kimi) where the real power lies if they got too far above their station.

    1. Exactly. Thought I was the only one thinking this is a clear ploy to try & force a wedge in FOTA. Get the teams arguing about racing or whatever & before you know it the unity of FOTA is broken.

      I just hope that FOTA are wise to that, and strong enough to withstand the twin onslaught of S&Max and the poison dwarf.

      In relation to Lewis and Macca supposedly lying – do you know what? I don’t give a fiddlers fart if they told the stewards the grass was blue. The stewards are there to take into account ALL of the available evidence, deliberate, then and only then reach a decision. Everyone knows there are three versions of any story – yours, mine & the truth.

      The job of the stewards is to take all the evidence as a whole & then issue a verdict. Since they set themselves up as an arbitrator and/or court, then they should act like one. Whoever heard of a jury deliberating before they heard all the evidence, convicting someone, and then changing their mind after reviewing evidence that was available to them from the start and should have been taken into account in the first place. Can anyone say Kangaroo?

      If the Stewards/FIA/Charlie Whiting/Alan Donnelly did their job properly in the first instance NONE of this would have occurred. So now you can see why I don’t give a **** if Lewis did or didn’t lie because their job is to sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
      And hands up anyone who honestly thinks Trulli presented anything other than ‘his’ version of the truth? And too all those so certain that they know the truth, well, could you share the sources of your knowledge? Because I for one, would like to see clear evidence – and by evidence I do not mean some pat press release from the FIA – before I pass judgement.

      And before any of the more hysterical posters on here today start, I am neither British, nor am I a Hamilton fan. In fact, I am an Alonso fan – but primarily I am a fan of the sport. But I can tell you now, I will be seriously re-thinking that if these sorts of shenanigans don’t let up.

      This whole mess is a sorry indictment on F1 and the sport in general.

  200. “What if the team told Lewis to slow down, but he didnt slow down…Does that mean Trulli is still in the right?”

    In the radio transcript Lewis says to the guy in the radio “but I’ve just let him by” he didn’t (and he did that because the guy in the radio told him to few seconds before that). So he did slow down, he let Trulli past as the team told him

  201. Martin Whitmarsh: He (Lewis) didn’t stop, and the telemetry data which was shown to the stewards today showed that the lap on which he was overtaken was no different from the succeeding lap that was under the safety car. It was difficult conditions but there was no evidence from the data that Lewis did anything that induced Trulli to go past.

    The facts here are:

    – Trulli left the track
    – Hamilton passed
    – McLaren ask Hamilton to let Trulli past
    – Hamilton disagrees
    – Trulli passes Hamilton

    The FIAs handling of this matter is comical to say the least. How can they claim to have been ‘mislead’ when they have had access to all of the transmissions and all of the data from the start.

    If anything this whole debacle proves that the stewards are happy to dish out penalties left, right and centre without looking at any data or listening to any transmissions of clear importance.

    They are clearly incompetent beyond belief.

    1. bernard, the problem is though that they have access to the radio transmissions and data but its not shared with the fans to prove their point. They could share it and say look, this is where he slowed down after being given this message but they wont, because it would only prove that what they are claiming is wrong.

  202. If Hamilton had stayed in front of Trulli, he would have been DQed for passing under a safety car. If he didn’t pass, he would have been DQed slowing down too much under a SC. If he passed him and let him back past, as he did, he was DQed.

    To put it simple, there was something slightly controversial which the which falls into one of the many many grey areas that exist within the rules and therefore McLaren must be punished.

    I expect the double diffusers will be deemed illegal soon. Why? Because Ferrari don’t have one.

    1. He wasnt disqualified for any of the actions in the race – it was the actions post race that caused the dsq, not the passing/repassing/letting back past.

      If any driver/team had witheld information, or lied, or been economical with the truth to the stewards the same would have happened to them – its not an issue with Hamilton, nor is is questioning his driving, it is questioning the fact that a team allowed a driver to take a penalty for something he apparantly didnt do, so they could keep the advantage.

      It has nothing to do with Ferrari whatsoever.

  203. @Chris,

    I’m not able to find a video on that link, only audio :(

  204. Using the Toyota radio calls and now the published McLaren radio, it’s pretty clear the end of the race was a rather major cluster****. (The McLaren audio which I just prefer to the transcribed text personally: http://dl.groovygecko.net/anon.groovy/clients/igentics/australia09/2009_Australia_Hamilton_driveraudio_final.mp3 )

    No one, including the race director, seemed to know what the hell was going on. These two guys just got caught in the crossfire.

  205. Why have the FIA not released the transcripts from the stewards enquiry. All we have is them telling us that Mclaren and lewis lied. We still do not know what was actually said!

    The radio transcript does not exaclty clear up what happend during the interviews.

  206. MacademiaNut
    2nd April 2009, 15:22

    1. From the conversation, it is pretty clear that HAM just told the team that he had overtaken Trulli after he ran wide. He wasn’t sure if that move was legal or not.


    2. The team checks and tells him that he should let Trulli pass. He does that immediately.

    3. The team comes back and tells him that he doesn’t have to; and he responds that he has already done so.

    Only after this things get interesting. HAM now tells the team that he should get that position back (the third position) if Trulli made a mistake.

    “I don’t have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.”

    “Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.”

    The above two make it pretty clear that HAM wants that position back. He makes this clear in the immediate post-race interview that he just let Trulli past.

    However, when the team learns that Trulli and HAM are summoned, they now see a possibility to get that third position back. This is either initiated by HAM or the team (we don’t care about this). But, either way, the other one agrees and does not report this radio conversation. Both of them lie when asked a direct question (which is just plain WRONG).

    This is just an utter shame for both McLaren and HAM. Shame on Stewards for not asking for radio in the first place and not looking into any telemetry data or anything to make the decision.

    I also think that the three stewards should be replaced because they by choosing not to look at some supporting data when it was available. I don’t think the stewards are above the law either. If they had the radio conversation available and they “chose” not to look into it and take HAM and McLaren’s word, then they made an error in their judgment! Take the stewards out FIA. Put in three new members for the next race.

  207. @Bernard
    Why do you say “- Hamilton disagrees” ? He didn’t disagreed at all. He just did what he was told (if you listen to the radio recordings).

    “The FIAs handling of this matter is comical ” Even FIAs was a bit late with the decision, I’d rather say the way McLaren handled this matter is strange beyond belief.

    1. Hamilton did (rightly) disagree, otherwise he wouldn’t have insisted he should retake the position.

      We all know that the stewards love to make mountains out of molehills.

      “a bit late with the decision”

      Understatement? Haha!

  208. As the story unfolds, we can realize that Hamilton and others from McLaren blatantly misinformed the stewards in their inquiry. Witmarsh say they didn’t lie, but Hamilton did tell them he wasn’t instructed to move over, and now hearing the conversation in the drama, we see that they told him to let the Toyota threw. why didnt he just tell them what actually happened?

    what are we in Kinder garden here……

  209. Hmmm… After reading that the FIA report, I’m wondering why Lewis is even still in the Championship?

  210. MacademiaNut
    2nd April 2009, 15:27


    Please release the audio of the questioning of HAM and Trulli that you used to give the 25s penalty to Trulli.

    Let’s have the proof that you indeed asked the question to HAM and HAM lied. If this audio is made available, HAM should be thrown out of this year’s championship immediately — and McLaren.


    1. He should be thrown out of the championship? Get real, when was the last time a footballer was banned for a season for diving?

      The problem is, McLaren are so scared they will get penalised because of recent history, they told Lewis to give the place back.

      The FIA have made such a mess of things over the last few years that nobody seems to know what the rules are anymore.

    2. MacademiaNut
      2nd April 2009, 15:32

      The throwing out is not because of his overtaking. It is because of intentional lying.

  211. @Ron,

    The problem is that the FIA have not released transcripts of the stewards interviews so we only know what and fia spokesman said what hamilton had said not the actual words used etc. Why are we not given all the information. The radio transcript just shows confusion about the track position and the rules. It does not tell us what was said in the interviews.

  212. @Lee
    Why do you need to hear exact words in the interview ? Do you actually think the stewards are lying ?

    1. To be honest, It wouldn’t surprise me. People have been led to believe that the FIA have it in for McLaren… So many things have pointed to that in the eyes of many people, that they need verifiable proof that that isn’t what’s happening here.

  213. The FIA makes F1 seem like a daytime Soap. You almost always have a lot to ‘look forward to’ after a race. I think the FIA needs to be managed by a neutral independent body of some sort. Honestly, the whole Hamilton/Mclaren issue broke my heart. Pehaps Mclaren and Machester United have a lot in common…

  214. One explanation could be that the F1 stewards have never before felt they were misled by a team or a driver in the history of F1, because, as we know, everyone in F1 is always scrupulously honest (*) – this of course would explain why nobody has ever been stripped of his points for such a thing in 50 years of the F1 world championship, and Mr. Hamilton has found YET ANOTHER new and ingenious way to be penalized or disqualified (braking a little late in Fuji and losing some positions as a result, something else no-one had ever picked up a penalty for, and of course failing to wait one more corner to resume racing after being pushed off the track at Spa – another new rule which emerged only after the race in question – being only his most recent two). It really is a testimony to the honesty and openness of all the teams and drivers throughout all off F1 history that it has taken until 2009 for someone to be found responsible for trying to mislead the stewards and disqualified for it, and it’s also extraordinary that a single naughty driver can uncover so many previously undiscovered rules.

    (*) The FIA itself, of course, is a bastion of impeccable honesty and high scruples, despite, for example, the simply scurrilous accusation from its own former steward Tony Scott Andrews, that the FIA simply lied about his views on a precedent case involving Tonio Liuzzi in order to refuse to even rule on McLaren’s 2008 Spa appeal:


    We know for certain that Scott Andrews must himself have lied about this in a misguided attempt to embarrass the FIA, because, as stated previously, it is beyond possibility that the FIA itself is populated with partisan crooks and liars. It’s such a shame that a bad egg like the McLaren organization exists as a blight on an otherwise impeccable sport. It’s similarly beyond possibility that the FIA itself simply made **** up to throw out an appeal because they thought Scott Andrews was safely retired, incommunicado and running UK club races.

    So glad that the sport is being kept clean in this way and that it has nothing to do with an ongoing victimization campaign.

    1. Best comment of the day I think!

  215. MacademiaNut
    2nd April 2009, 15:34

    Something just doesn’t sound right.

    From FIA:

    “During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.”

    From McLaren:

    “Vodafone McLaren Mercedes understands that the Stewards made their decision on the basis of reviewing radio transmissions between the driver and the Team.

    The Team mistakenly believed that the radio transmissions had been reviewed by the FIA on Sunday 29th March 2009, and consequently did not believe it was necessary to discuss them with the Stewards on that date.”

    McLaren’s statement seems to indicate they “did not” discuss the radio conversation. FIA insists that Lewis lied. Give us the proof FIA that lewis lied.

    You still continue to give out judgments without releasing the evidence.

  216. @Dragos,

    It is quite clear that the stewards themselves are not necessarily involved in any decision making. I do indeed believe that the FIA are capable of lying and I do think that Alan Donnelly is capable of manipulating the Stewards (as in spa). I would like to know the exact questions asked and the exact answers given. After all we are all fully aware of how newspapers etc can twist words so why would Alan Donnelly be any different, especially as he runs a PR company!

    I do not trust the FIA as far as I can throw them.

  217. Interesting, The FIA can make a decision and overturn a previous decision all within 5 days. It can review all the media interviews, look at video tapes and listen to the team radios. Yet it can not take a tape measure and measure 3 rear diffusers, consult its own rule book within 3 months. All is forgiven Jean Marie Balestre please come back!!

    1. @Delboy,

      Perhaps there is truth in the allegation that the FIA engineer these farces to generate media attention after all.

  218. I don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this (263 comments is quite a bit to read thru) but I need to vent my thoughts.

    How the heck did FIA give Trulli a 25-second penalty without looking at all the evidence in the first place!!!

    It is supremely idiotic that they didn’t listen to the radio comm. when they gave Trulli the penalty. It’s not wrong of McLaren to assume that they heard it already. Now, they’re taking their own fault and blaming it on Hamilton – stupendous!

    On top of that, they are claiming Hamilton was lying to them when quite often even face-to-face communication can be misinterpreted. When one side hasn’t heard the radio comm. and the other side assumes it’s been heard already, the conversation can mean completely different things!

    So a 25-sec penalty based on some, not all, of the facts.

    A DQ based on subjective interpretation of a conversation.

    Hmm…what is more stupid?

  219. Demon_racer74
    2nd April 2009, 15:42

    Mine understanding is… Trulli went off track under safety car.. LEWIS overtook him, then he was told by Team to give place back.. so let Trulli pass him.
    (so far so good) Trulli gets demoted 25 seconds for overtaking under SC!! so how is Lewis then DQ ?? & For what, LYING TO STEWARDS ?? surely he was not to blame..more to do with radio chatter & even if McLaren did tell a porky or two…dont think that warrants a DQ…Bit harsh !!


    1. Hear hear!

  220. @MacademiaNut,

    I haven’t heard of any other sport revealing transcripts of hearings. Why should Formula 1 be any different?

    But since they have gone this far with this case, I agree they need to publish the transcripts from the hearing for this case alone. The gravity of the allegations alone justify this.

    1. MacademiaNut
      2nd April 2009, 16:16

      They should, especially when they are getting into character assassination of someone. FIA is saying that “HAM is a liar”. If talking to stewards is regarded as “testimony under oath”, then lying is a serious affair.

      Notice that the stewards gave a 25s penalty based on HAM’s testimony. The stewards clearly ignored the radio conversation that was at their hands.

      1. FIA gives a penalty for Trulli, without telling us how it reached this conclusion.

      2. FIA reverts the decision on Trulli giving us an evidence of why they reversed.

      3. Now, they remove HAM for what? Lying, right? Where is the evidence for that?

      Should I wait for another five days to see if HAM indeed pressed the audio record on his cell phone to tape the conversation in the first stewards’ meeting, so that the case is opened up again?

      Getting hold of new evidence is one thing. Stewards did not use all the data that they had in their hand in the first try! I want the stewards to be penalized in some way as they “selective” chose data to give out a penalty.

  221. Until we see transcripts of what was said in the stewards meeting we can’t tell how much Hamilton lied, misled or was economical with the truth, whatever you want to call it.

    Considering virtually everything else has been released so far if they don’t end up releasing the most important piece of evidence then you can’t blame people for reserving judgement. The punishment is based on McLaren and Hamilton lying to the steward remember.

    Considering the FIA’s history it is not hard to see why some would want proof before believing everything they say. Just recently after they were forced to back down other the medals system for this season they claimed they only tried to introduce it because they were led to believe it was what all the teams wanted. Yet not long before this FOTA had come out publically and said they wanted a revised points system and even said what spread of points they wanted. If that is not lying or being misleading I don’t know what is.

  222. @Kurtosis

    To be fair I know of no other sport with such a reputation for farce and corruption. Any sport that does not publish all its rules is open to many conspiracy theories etc, It is in F1s interests to release the information to it’s fans. More to the point they are supposedly releasing the information to show the fans what has happend. However the queries are not isolated to the radio conversation between mclaren and lewis, there is a major piece of evidence in the interviews which is missing.

  223. Wow. Difficult to say what is worse: a driver and his team lying in their statements to the officials to gain a position (and penalize another fellow drivers) or so many fans completely unable to put the concept of right-or-wrong above their passion for that driver.
    These hearings have minutes, witnesses and probably signed statements – that is why Mclaren is not even considering appealing and LH is nowhere near a microfone now. In the past I have given LH the benefit of the doubt, but now I have no doubt: The kid is a cheat. As for Mclaren, well, I never gave them the benefit of the doubt anyway.

  224. found this on the planet-f1 forum, it’s this news report from the bbc showing truilli’s onboard

  225. the link would help

  226. I’m going to chip in again but not sure if it is useful for so many posts. In situations like these it is entirely possible for a group of people to have a conversion and come away with completely different understandings of what has been discussed. Especiialy in a pressure situation where there is a lack of trust and one party is in a position of authority, and in a position to dish out punishments. Being careful what you say and lying are 2 very different things. I don’t think anyoone can make a judgement on the situation without a transcript of the discussions with the stewards. End of discussion.

  227. 3rd time lucky (oh for comment preview)

  228. Does anyone think this ‘further action’ thing is likely to happen? Thats way too extreme for the situation. Granted Mclaren/Hamilton/whoever involved should have been upfront about letting Trulli back past, but having a risk of being thrown out of the championship for what is probably a bit of unfortunate miscommunication???

    I hope they dont use this situation to create an example to others who might think about witholding infomation. I’m not even convinced that anything was even done on purpose – it happened so it should be punished on this occasion – but I dont think it was done maliciously or anything :S

    Maybe I am being naive – but Mclaren arent that stupid to think that they can claim something that blatently happened over the radio didnt happen at all.

    And I am not a fan of Hamilton, or of Trulli for that matter – but I think a line needs to be drawn under it now. Trulli got his points back and Mclaren lost what could have been some very valuable points for them this year over something very stupid indeed. Lesson learnt – surely? More meddling it just a bit uneccessary i think.

    1. That said, if a blatant lie did occur then I wont be impressed, but thats a big IF!

      and IF an outright lie occurred then it should be the one who said it that is punished accordingly – be that the team or Hamilton himself – for example Hamilton should not be dsq from the championship if it was the team that lied. Not that I beleive a dsq from the championship should happen at all – I think that is far too extreme! Even if there was a lie. Not sure what I would use as punishment though as an alternative :S

    2. Clare, all of it is hard to believe. But I think further action will be taken as an example too others. They could go all the way and exclude Lewis from the championship. After all they don’t really want him there, if this happens I think we will see Lewis throw in the towel and move on. Win – Win for Fia.

  229. @Antifia

    How in that case did non of the stewards get to interview the drivers after spa? The olny person to do any interviewing was Alan Donnelly who is not supposed to get involved. The stewards signed the statement even though they were not privy to the information involved.

  230. Sorry for the unneccessary posts, why wont the link work? link

  231. the thing that still annoys me is that the FIA already had all the radio data and more. they had all the data available to them to make any decision without having to get into a game of he-said she-said with Hamilton and Whitmarsh.
    It should be a case of FIA using all the data available to them and then making a decision, not trying to trap people into saying something that could end up being misleading.
    words are just words, data and facts are where the FIA should have focussed.

  232. wow…. neither cars of Mclaren and Ferrari Finished!!!!!
    an historic race………………

    bye the Keith, change the new pages system for comments….. the old one big roll of comments were better……

  233. Well then I guess only the raw audio of the interview will suffice, since any other form is subject to accusations of manipulation.

    We don’t even know if these meetings are recorded in audio, maybe they just have a transcriber, like a court of law.

  234. Think Sean’s comment (3.34pm) sums it up beautifully about F1 as a sport in general and perhaps should also cover fans who comment on sites like this (including me); it is all a game to show your knowledge/prejudices/ignorance etc. So who benefits in all this?

    Bernie/ Max/ BBC/ Keith !!

  235. @Kurtosis,

    I think the problem is that the FIA are claiming to be more transparent but then release everything bar the most important bit of information. They have even released transcripts of Lewis’ comments to the media regardless of the fact that they do not prove anything that was said to the stewards. It just leads me to think that the missing evidence is not as damning as they would like it to be, or in fact again exposes the fact that Alan Donnelly is far more involved than he should be.

  236. Having just watched the onboard footage (thanks Del!) i think it’s pretty obvious Trulli did everything he could do let Hamilton past again after he passed him. So I don’t understand why Trulli was penalised in the first place. Clearly McLaren weren’t telling the full truth somewhere.

  237. Untill I see what the transcript from the stewards I am not going say this was the right call. I will admit that if this pre/post race drama keeps up I may will not make it the end.

  238. To echo Lee and Jess, we just need to know exactly what was said in that interview, as the only question now is did Hamilton actually “deliberately mislead” the stewards as they claim?

  239. If you read the FIA report, at the interview, among other things, the race director asked Lewis if he let Trulli past, and Lewis insisted he didn’t. I don’t know … it is quite clear to me….. there are very little chances FIA is lying that much about it. If it did, I’m SURE McLaren would protest, but they didn’t …..

  240. I don’t get it. So great they fixed a screwed up stewards decision but do we have any clarification on what Hamilton *should* have done in this case? I guess he was supposed to let him past because you can’t lose places under the safety car? What if Trulli went off and dropped off five places? Is that safe to let him pass five cars under safety car?

    1. I think what happened in the race is without doubt.

      1. Trulli went off, Hamilton passed legally.
      2. Hamilton slowed down and pulled over to the side, Trulli passed him legally.
      3. Trulli then slowed down, Hamilton did not pass and instead the team Appealed post race.

      What should have happened if McLaren had been more awake… was that 1 occurred and 2 & 3 did not because they were not neccessary. So Hamilton finished 3rd on the track.

      Had Trulli dropped 5 places he would not be allowed to make those back up… unless of course, the cars in front went off or slowed down a lot.

  241. @Armen
    the main issue of the stewards was that Lewis “deliberately mislead” them by saying he did not let Trulli past (so the stewards gave Trulli a penalty as he didn’t have the right to make a pass). The fact that Lewis first passed Trulli was not at all an issue but because of bad team decision, Lewis let Trulli pass again by slowing down and when asked he didn’t admit he did that on a purpose.

  242. This is just funny…

    He gets penalised for overtaking and NOT giving a place back in Belgium, so he gives it back in Australia and gets penalised anyway… WHAT THE HELL IS HE MEANT TO DO????

    It think McLaren should just pull out of the next few races in protest… let the results stand and get on with it!!

    1. Steven, these are totally different situations beyond compare. Spa was in full green flag racing conditions where Hamilton gained an advantage by going off the track. Oz was behind safety car where Trulli made a mistake and went off.

      The only thing that is the same is that Hamilton & McLaren screwed up on both occasions… so much for being one of the two most experienced teams on the grid!

  243. I think Martin Brundle comment is very true:

    “I think is fair to say ‘Yes, we know that you listen to the radio so we thought you already knew that'[the conversation on the radio between Lewis and the team] but if they were asked a direct question, they should of given the right answer and they clearly didn’t”

  244. I have no words… they are killing Formula One race by race…

    I’ve just read the transcript from McLaren – Lewis talk and what I see there is a super careful team, knowing what had happened in the past, being very careful and even trying to clarify the situation (should Lewis keep 3rd or let Trulli pass) with Charlie (Whiting)

    [Charlie Whiting is FIA Formula One Race Director, Safety Delegate, Permanent Starter and head of the F1 Technical Department, in which capacities he generally manages the logistics of each F1 Grand Prix, inspects cars in Parc fermé before a race, enforces FIA rules, and controls the lights which start each race.] from Wiki

    Here’s the transcript and do tell if you see and kind of evil doing in the talk…

    Transcript of the radio transmission between Lewis Hamilton and his team:

    Team: OK Lewis, you should need to make sure your delta is positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn’t matter but no overtaking. No overtaking.

    Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, …, is this OK?

    Team: Understood, Lewis. We’ll confirm and get back to you.

    LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

    Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

    LH: OK.

    LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.

    Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

    LH: I let him past already.

    Team: OK, Lewis. That’s fine. That’s fine. Hold position. Hold position.

    LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.

    Team: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G 5, yellow Golf 5.

    LH: I don’t have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.

    Team: Yes, we understand Lewis. Let’s just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now. You are in P4. If you hold this position. Just keep it together.

    Team: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrott 2.

    LH: Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.

    Team: Still waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

    Team: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

    Team: If we are able to use one KERS that would be good. If you deploy KERS please do so now.

    Team: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

    1. Actually thinking about it, here is McLaren making the same dumb ass mistake again…

      “Oooh!! what do we do, I dunno, lets ask Charlie.”

      Doh!! Charlie proved to have no influence over the situation last time, why ask him again!! I think McLaren seriously need to go back to school and learn the rules!

    2. They asked Charlie, the Race Director, at Spa last year… surely, the RACE DIRECTOR should know all the rules?

  245. I think Trulli was very harshly dealt with in the first place. the rule on taking your place back under safety car is a grey area.
    I still dont know the rule now!! should you let them back past or not??
    given how confusing this rule is whatever happened between Hamilton and trulli should have been treated accordingly and not in such a draconian manner.

    The fIA have been too heavy handed. changing results should be the last resort (especially over something so petty)- it seems to me, these days, the FIA are chucking around grid penalties, 25 second penalties and disqualifications like confetti and thats whats ruining the sport. do you think they ever listen to fans? I dont.

  246. I’m with Lee on this one.

    Where is the transcript of the hearing between the stewards and Hamilton.

    Everything we heard in the press about the incident tells us exactly what was in those radio conversations. The only thing in dissonance with that is that the stewards claim that Lewis lied. In fact he never lied in public, so it’s a bit hard to accept that he would have lied to the stewards. Especially since he knew full well that they could look back to (on board) video footage of the incident, listen to radio transmissions and car telemetry.

    I’m pretty much afraid that they wasked a question that Lewis misinterpreted or were he was misunderstood.

    The whole thing does not make any sense at all. A liar doesn’t come clean 5 minutes after he tells a lie.

  247. To me, this paragraph of the FIA press release says it all…

    “During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the Team Manager stated that no such instruction had been given. The Race Director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.”

    It doesn’t matter how the driver or the team expressed this to the FIA, the fact is that they told the FIA that there was no instruction given to allow Trulli to pass; which consequently led to Trulli being penalised. The FIA have now released two pieces of audio evidence which clearly show that the instruction was given. No matter what the circumstances were, the basic fact is that Hamilton and the McLaren team deliberately misled the FIA and therefore the punishment is completely right in my opinion.

    In fact, if this situation was in a court of law, it would be considered as ‘perverting the course of justice’. They will be very lucky if no further action is taken.

    Click here to read the full FIA press release and listen to the audio evidence.

    1. Macademianut
      3rd April 2009, 1:15

      That’s not a transcript. Show us the transcript of the meeting or release the audio recording. This could simply be construed as FIA lying to cover up their mess.

  248. chaostheory
    2nd April 2009, 16:55

    If McLaren and Lewis were so afraid of FIA and a penalty during the final laps of the race then why did they lie to stewards? (I wont say because theyve spotted an opportunity to regain that lost 3rd place :/ ).
    McLaren are guilty in my opinion, but there is one more thing: the FIA on their side didnt do it right too; the steward should be more careful and not punish without proper detailed investigation, even if it would take them all sunday and all night.

  249. although Mclaren clearly said once to let him through the overwhelming message was to hold position in 4th ie to stay behind, which is what Mclaren maintained after the race.
    If Mclaren thought race control had heard that radio conversation i can see why they would want to explore the possibility that Trulli should be disqualified. Hamilton really wanted to keep that 3rd spot and i think he had every right to do so. had he done so, he would have taken 3rd fairly and there would be no argument. they were trying to be careful and conservative (after Belgium) – look where that got them.

    In conclusion, to disqualify lewis was extremely harsh.

  250. theRoswellite
    2nd April 2009, 17:01

    Let’s see…

    The FIA should, indeed must, penalize any false reporting.
    (What is McLaren thinking…?)

    A rule change, or clarification, should be implemented:


    I’m sure the FIA could state this with greater clarity and brevity. I would hope they already have this situation addressed in the rules.

    Silly me.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:09

      You are just allowing racing within the speed-limit of staying behind the safety car. So, people will overtake.

      TRU passes HAM because he fears that HAM slow pace might put him back by more than 2 sec.

      TRU slows down; so HAM passes TRU for the same reason.

      The race will become more like price is right. How slow can one go without going below the 2s gap from the safety car.

  251. question is. if Hamilton had admitted to letting Trulli back past and then refusing to re-take Trulli, would Trulli have been disqualified? almost certainly not. I mean what more can trulli do other than come to a complete halt.
    Hamilton would have lost the 3rd spot which was rightfully his after trulli went off.
    I can see why Hamilton felt he had to say what he said. basically a combination of Mclaren and Hamilton not knowing the rules has let them down big time. thats why they should have just accepted 4th and moved on.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:07

      The worst part is that if HAM had said that he was given instructions by the team to let Trulli pass him, they probably would have given him the place back as he was doing it on benefit-of-doubt.

  252. The problem is, why did the stewards need to ask Hamilton what happened when they had access to all transmission and relevant data? Surely they didn’t just make a judgement without evidence? *rolleyes*

    Once said evidence was finally looked at they declare Hamilton/McLaren is at fault not Trulli. However all the while the facts haven’t changed – Trulli left the track and should have finished 4th behind Hamilton. End of Story.

    If anyone is at fault in this incident it is the stewards and the FIA for making a complete shambles of the situation just as they unsuprisingly always seem to do.

    They are a joke of an organisation.

    1. Exactly. At least in other motor racing series, we know the results of the race when fans leave the circuit or switch off the TV set.

  253. It’s an absolute joke. Imagine if utter nonsense like this were allowed in football?

    Man United win the FA cup, only to find there winning goal to be disallowed 4 days after the final

    Just, for one minute, imagine that.

    The FIA have messed up. When trulli was given his penalty, all possible evidence should have been examined. Things like this should end on race day, not in the week afterwards.

    1. there is nothing wrong with that….remember that the stewards were mislead by Lewis….you must blame Lewis for this farce not the FIA.

    2. Scott Joslin
      2nd April 2009, 18:13

      ed – If Man Utd were found to do some thing illegal like play an illegal player during that match then the result would be turned round the other way. It’s the same thing!

      Its a blatant attempt at cheating and Mclaren deserve what they get!

  254. Did McLaren protest originally or did the stewards just decide to look into it?

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:11

      McLaren did not protest. Toyota did; and they backed off.

      FIA just all of a sudden realized that they had ignored a piece of evidence that they always had and chose not to look at. Now, they are penalizing someone for lying.

  255. I feel all these result changes are alienating the casual fan. you might say well stuff the casual fan – we are hardcore. but if you lose the casual F1 fan, you lose about half your TV audience. not good.

    1. chaostheory
      2nd April 2009, 17:22

      casual fans just read the news on bbc or other site, TV or whatever, accept what is written/said there and moves on – next race is coming!. Not all but most…

  256. @Mig.Golf:
    He hasn’t been penalized for letting Trulli pass. He’s been penalized because he lied about it to the stewards. Had he come clean instead of trying to be cute and he would have been 4th (or even 3rd) by now.
    @ Richard S:
    According to the FIA, LH was asked by the officials “Did you receive orders from the team to let Trulli pass?” To what he responded “No”. Then they asked him “Did you slow down to let him pass?”, again he said “No”. It turned out that the true answer to both questions was a resounding “Yes”. What part of this discussion leads you to believe that there can be two opinions on whether LH lied?
    @ Lee:
    If I got what you said, your point is: The stewards did not speak to the press after Spa, ergo, LH didn’t lie and should be reinstated. Better than that only the Chewbacca defence.

    1. Toby Thwaites 93
      2nd April 2009, 17:46

      ^^^ Agreed to all of this, especially the reply to @ Richard S :)

    2. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 18:36

      That’s because.. in your response to RichardS, what you show as question and answer is not to be found anywhere. You just made it into a question and answer from the stories that you read.

      Can you point to a transcript or audio of that conversation?

  257. There are many “if”s, “but”s and “should’ve”s.

    But at the end of the day, we have to deal with the facts and, whatever the intentions of Hamilton and McLaren may or may not have been, the fact is that they mislead the FIA and are consequently facing the results of this action.

    And to answer Tom… McLaren did not protest as such, they asked for clarification on whether Trulli’s pass was legal. Trulli was then penalised and Toyota were going to appeal this decision, before realising that the penalty could not be appealed (as Hamilton found out at Spa last year) and subsequently withdrew the appeal. The stewards then looked into the matter off their own back after “new evidence” came to light and came to this ruling.

  258. This is a simple thing that happens all the time in Nascar and Indycar races here in the states. I have been to countless events listening on my scanner radio to drivers communicating DIRECTLY to race control-Brian Barnhart himself in the case of Indycar-to sort out matters such as restart sequence and even pace car speed under the yellow.
    With this decision, F1 is officially starting to look like the government of a poorly run third world country to us here in the states.

  259. It’s just the lying when asked direct questions that doesn’t make sense to me. Hamilton did appear to slow and he was originally told to let Trulli past before being told hold his position instead by which point he had let Trulli past. I cannot comprehend that Hamilton and David Ryan would answer that Hamilton didn’t slow or let Trulli past, especially if they thought the stewards had listened to the radio, which unless they are incredibly stupid, must’ve realised the stewards could do. The FIA really do need to release a transcript otherwise we cannot see their justification and without that this decision, to me, is a dubious one.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:36


      The McLaren press release states that they did not feel the need to discuss the issue with the Stewards. This leads me to believe that they never discussed about this issue at all in the stewards’ meeting.

      I want the FIA to release the audio of the stewards’ meeting with HAM and TRU. Show us the evidence that HAM lied to a direct question.

  260. There seems to be a discrepancy between the audio recording, and the written transcript…. the part sometime between 1:10-1:20, I really don’t think Hamilton said “Tell Charlie”…. I think it was something rather different.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:37

      The audio tape just ****** me off.

      You can clearly see how scared the driver and the teams are with FIA. FIA has just screwed the sport completely.

  261. People must be stupid by pointing this to the Ferrari….There is nothing wrong in undoing the ruling if they find new evidence….this proves the credibility of Mclaren and Lewis……Lewis is a cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:39

      I think you qualify to be a steward. All you need is just to believe whatever you choose to believe.

      You did not care much for the third place position given to Lewis.. and now when FIA tells (without evidence) that HAM is a liar, you choose to believe it because you want it to be true.

      It is exactly this reaction that led to the 25s penalty for TRU (not looking at the evidence). I am not even sure that HAM was asked that question.

    2. Toby Thwaites 93
      2nd April 2009, 17:44

      Varun, your right lewis is a cheat :)

    3. Yeah, but would Kimi or Felipe be getting the same treatment if they were in this exact same situation?

  262. I think to disqualify Hamilton was too harsh, i believe Hamilton who let Trulli re-pass was the right thing to do, but it was Trulli’s mistake which made him go wide and off the track, there was no way Hamilton should had gave the place back anyway although even during safety car period. I think the FiA ‘dislikes‘ Hamilton and even McLaren too. F1 is being ruined by the FiA and its off-track controversy’s

  263. Toby Thwaites 93
    2nd April 2009, 17:43

    Put bluntly a communication melt down between Mclaren and Hamilton which was not explain to the stewards after the race has left Hamilton looking a fool, not for the first time in his short f1 career.
    Well deserved 3rd by Trulli

  264. Takuma Matata
    2nd April 2009, 17:48

    I’m very disappointed in Lewis. Yes McLaren could have handled it better but he needs to think for himself and just use some common sense.

    The stewards failing to make the right call is farcical. Why not review ALL the evidence prior to manipulating the result.

    I have completely lost faith in their and the FIA’s decision making abilities.

  265. Much ado about nothing. For ONCE I think the “Stoopids” got it right. If LH and the team misled the stewards in the hope of solidifying gaining one extra point to third place than the dumb bunnies deserve exclusion. And there is recorded tape of their conversation for god’s sake!

    And to a point David made waaaaay back on page one:

    It’s not just the team, Lewis should bring his own level of integrity to any controversy regardless of what the team tell him to do. If he told the truth against team orders do you think McLaren would sack him? I think not.

    If they hadn’t lied, what was the worst possible result? They may have given Trulli 3rd and kept Lewis in 4th. The best that could have come out? LH-3 and JT in 4.

    Now they are excluded and deservedly so. It’s not a racing issue, it’s a truthfulness and integrity issue. Once again McLaren look like cheating weasels when it didn’t have to go down that way.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:56

      Agree totally!

      The FIA probably got it right, but I don’t think just a one race expulsion fits the crime. It should be more severe.

      There’s a recorded tape of Hamilton being given instructions, but there’s no recorded audio of HAM lying to the stewards.

      Give us that evidence and suspend McLaren (as a team) for the next three races, whole season or whatever. But, this punishment does not fit the crime that they are being accused of.

    2. Putting it in a polite fashion, you both are full of prune juice. We’re ready to head into the next weekend, and the whole running order for Oz has just been changed again. As I said in an earlier reply, other forms of motor racing that we may consider inferior get the results right, and the fans, teams, and everyone go home knowing the correct results.

      The penalty is very harsh, and I don’t agree with the severity. But if there was a penalty to be handed out, do it before the official results are published and give everyone the fair information!! At this point, the officials at my local dirt track oval do a better job than these supposed top of the line FIA losers!!

  266. After listening to the audio, McLaren and Hamilton look like idiots. Why would they not just tell the stewards it was an honest mistake, and take the 3rd they were going to get. Idiots!

    Now, to most of the F1 fans around the world, McLaren and Hamilton are nothing more than cheats. Their reputation is stuffed!

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 17:56

      Probably because the stewards did not ask them.

    2. The FIA need to provide proof that McLaren and Lewis did indeed ‘lie’.

  267. It comes down to this: either LH/Mclaren lied or the FIA did. If Mclaren are the victims here, it is a clear case of slender. They should bring the FIA to court and perhaps they would even get those USD 100 million back (what was that for again? Oh, yeah, I remember now).

  268. bloody ridiculous – teams spend months preparing for this, the money involved just getting to the starting grid of the first race is staggering. Then after the first qualifying session, the grid is re-arranged overnight -because nobody seems to know the rules!

    Now this, race results decided by commitee after the event – because nobody seems to know the rules!

  269. Stomp & Steer
    2nd April 2009, 17:58

    When a full course yellow is displayed, either stop all cars on the track away from the mess to be cleaned up or allow cars to continue to circulate the track behind a pace car.
    Positions will be reverted back to the previous lap before the yellow. Those going into the pits will line up at the rear of cars on track.
    Only laps under green will count as laps completed.
    Forget about time limits. If I pay to see a race I want the advertised amount of laps to be under green not cars passing by on a yellow, yet counted as a racing lap.
    What about fuel & tires? To bad. Teams will have to plan these extra stops as the race works to a conclusion.
    I know, I know this is too simple for a supposed ________
    (you fill in your thought) race organization to adapt.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 18:01

      You are way too logical, my friend, to be any manager. :)

  270. England’s newest MBE …. LIED !
    Had the kid kept his yapper shut in public he could have pulled it off. I back ALL Empire drivers but this one has been a problem from the get-go. The sad part is he’s not just tarnished himself but all of F1. Of course the FIA are just power hungry idiots, Trulli’s penalty was unwarranted and so is Hamilton’s disqualification. Returned to 4th would have been sufficent.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 18:18

      I think I play both sides of the coin here; there’s no evidence that HAM lied or what question the stewards asked him exactly. The stewards are saying that he lied. If true (they release audio or show a transcript), I think McLaren should be banned for a few races.

  271. Martin Whitmarsh in his Q&A with Autosport [1] says:
    “Once that instruction was given to Lewis, he did not agree. He said: ‘Look, the guy was off the circuit, I don’t need to do this.’ A discussion was occurring and before that discussion was finished, Trulli had re-passed.”

    This ordering of events is simply not true. If you look at the radio transcript, Lewis, on receiving the instruction to let Trulli pass, immediately says “OK” and lets him pass. He begins to “disagree” only well after Trulli retook track position.

    Infer what you will from this inconsistency, but there it is.

    [1] http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74153

  272. Am loving the arguements, looks like Lewis and Mclaren both were caught out lying…you gotta love the F1 drama!

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 18:20

      I for one can believe that FIA would go to any extreme to enforce their power and make everyone look bad. Their goal is to make FOTA invalid.

      The drivers cannot stay united. FIA puts out a character assassination that HAM is a liar. Show us the evidence that HAM and Team Manager lied. Then, expel them from a few races or even the 2009 championship.

  273. Scott Joslin
    2nd April 2009, 18:22

    I am seriously appalled at Mclaren & Lewis for this.

    They are guilty of lying and taking not just the stewards for a bunch of idiots, but us the fans as well as they seek to cheat us out of the correct result.

    Where they so stupid to think that they could change their story after the race in which they had already discussed letting Trulli through on the radio?!!!

    To me the punishment of disqualifying Lewis form the Australian Grand Prix results is not enough. They are doing something that is rotten to the core. The FIA should come down on Mclaren hard to try and ward off any other attempts by other teams to do this – not that I am sure any other team would be so arrogant to do so I feel they should be banned from the Malaysian Grand Prix at least.

    Mclaren now have history of being not telling the truth and the damage this does to their integrity is huge in my opinion.

    I am glad Trulli has been reinstated and hope Whitmarsh gets a grip on his team as it far too frequently displays poor sportsmanship!


    1. Scott Joslin – I assume you are British?

      Then you’d do well to remember that famous “British Justice” you are so proud of, as enshrined in the Magna Carta.

      There just so happens to be a little fundamental inclusion in the British Justice System that you are innocent until proven guilty. So where is the proof?
      And remember, some bland press release from the FIA is not proof. Please provide your evidence that Lewis is ‘guilty’. I’m sure I’m not the only person who would like to see it. And was this a tribunal where Lewis was under oath? Did he swear to tell the truth? And why are the FIA suddenly such moral watchdogs, given S&Max is their president? Hardly a ringing endorsement.

      I’d also like to remind you that court transcripts are generally available to the public in the real world. So why is the FIA not releasing the transcripts of the meeting?

  274. Banishment from Malaysia GP is excessive, but having both cars starting from pit lane would be fitting. Make them compete, keep 20 cars on track, and minimize their points scoring potential.

    1. Scott Joslin
      2nd April 2009, 18:35

      Not strong enough in my opinion! What they did was attempt to cheat. meaning they tried to deceive on purpose.

      3 race ban is more like what I expect!

    2. Give me a break… like no other team has ever cheated/lied.

      We all remember a certain Ferrari driver pulling over to block the track at Monaco, and telling porkies about that. And what about all the drivers in the past that have claimed they ‘couldn’t see’ another car after an on track incident?

    3. Scott Joslin
      2nd April 2009, 18:43

      Cameron, in all those cases we could not prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were done to cheat on purpose. It is your view against the driver.

      There are hard facts here in this case – so that is the difference.

      Honda / BAR were punished for cheating – why would they go easy in this case?

    4. Until the audio from the hearing is released, I have not seen any proof, other than the FIA’s word, that McLaren and Lewis Hamilton have lied.

  275. I really am amazed at how the FIA, Lewis and McLaren can make such a simple looking issue get blown completely out of proportion. It’s clear that Hamilton didn’t tell the stewards the truth about how Trulli got past him and should be punished, but ideally the stewards should have immediate access to all radio transmissions and race video from every car so they can make decisions based on solid evidence instead of someone’s word.

    As a Hamilton fan, I just hope he isn’t punished further and that he and McLaren can bounce back from this somehow.

  276. Ok so Hamilton lied to the stewards and then told the truth to the rest of the world. I see I am not alone on how the heck that would come to pass.

  277. There are 2 different issues here and the FIA is mixing things up.
    Did Hamilton slow down for Trulli to pass?
    Did Hamilton lie to the FIA?

    If Hamilton didn’t slow down for Trulli, then trulli should also lose his position.

    If Hamilton lied to the FIA, then he shouldn’t lose his position if the first question is false, but should face a seperate disciplinary action.

    1. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 18:37

      No wonder FIA website nor the formula1 website doesn’t take any comments.

      This is turning into the worst reality show.

    2. Macademianut
      2nd April 2009, 18:38

      Also, where are Trulli’s and Toyota’s conversation about this incident?

      It appears that they too would have had the same confusion.

    3. Macademianut

      There’s an account by Trulli here. Though I’m not at all convinced Trulli thought Hamilton had a problem with car: he no doubt thought Hamilton/McLaren too were unsure what the hell should happen.

      As Oliver says, it all turns on whether Hamilton slowed down (a lot) or veered off line, which would tend to suggest he had in fact followed the team order (even though it was soon after rescinded). Funny that FIA didn’t include this evidence (telemetry, video?) in their statement. If he didn’t do anything much different, as Whitmarsh said he didn’t, I think McLaren should pursue this to at least clear his name.

  278. There is some weird stuff here… Some of you guys must be blind to the evidence and think only in the hatred you have for Lewis Hamilton…

    After seeing all evident, from the FIA official site, all news, all comments…

    I only ASK you guys ONE QUESTION:

    People make mistakes – McLaren has made then in the past, as Ferrari and other team and nobody is perfect.

    I could even accept all this as a McLaren error that leads Trulli to make another error, although he will not be punished for it now.


    Believing McLaren did all this to gain ONE POINT ?!?!?!?

    Are you guys thinking??!??!

    How much it cost just to put a racing car on that grid?

    You really think (as those FIA mental retarded) that they DID RISK IT ALL JUST TO GAIN AN EXTRA POINT, knowing FIA can’t wait for something to drag McLaren through the mud and they could loose it all?….


    Call it conspiracy theory, call it whatever, but I can’t be convinced of that.

    Believe me that even if McLaren is not racing for winning, there will always be something those FIA henchmen will try to blame it on them.

    Lewis won the Championship in 2008, but he will never win again, not because he doesn’t have a good car (maybe not today, but things change), not because he is not on a good Team (is the best in F1 right now) but because Briton Mr. Max Mosley has a thing against him and the Team, and ever since that preposterous sex scandal that torn motorsport world apart, that guy is playing at the attack, not on defense and the power he has from all lobbies is strong enough to turn all international members of FIA, that demanded his resignation after that grotesque thing, around… What happened? What did they do so everybody shut up and nobody talks about that? Is he even considering run again? My God… What’s happened to the World? Is everybody just plain crazy?!…

    Mark my words – McLaren can be his main target, but other will suffer as well – the man is senile….
    Some commission, FOTA, whatever MUST that command and retire Max and Bernie and send them to do some comedy act on TV or something… This is not funny, this SHOULD BE FORMULA ONE!!! But it’s not… IT’S A JOKE!!!

    1. Touche.

      Seems this subject has attracted a lot of folks whose hatred for Lewis blinds them to reality.

      You just have to ask yourself why, don’t you? Not even MS at his worst attracted this sort of vilification.

      On another note, I see the FIA has gone very silent on their Race Against Racism campaign…..

  279. All this is pure BS

  280. This another example of inconsistency Hamilton has been disqualified for lying in an interview. The punishment is again blown out of proportion. I just don’t see why they can’t put Hamilton to 4th, also Mosely’s rule of the teams not being able to communicate with race control during a race has exacerbated current problems.

  281. @Antifia

    “@ Lee:
    If I got what you said, your point is: The stewards did not speak to the press after Spa, ergo, LH didn’t lie and should be reinstated. Better than that only the Chewbacca defence”


    No, What I was saying is that the stewards signed statements can not be trusted (or rather Alan Donnelly). After spa, the stewards did not interview the drivers, Donnelly did. He is the stewards advisor and has not official place to interfere in the actual stewarding. However he saw fit to do this and then persuaded the stewards to sign the statement regardless of the fact that they had nothing to do with the decision!

    Why should we trust them now? Especially as they have managed to publish everything but the stewards interviews!

  282. I’m a big Ferrari fan and usally I love to hear bad news about Mclaren and especially about Hamilton, but this is just some sort of sick joke, bad news for F1. Give this guy a break, no way did he deserve this penalty. FIA stewards must be the thickest people on this planet.

    FIA suck.

    1. Being a fan of one team, is no reason to enjoy bad news about another. I’m a big McLaren fan, but there is no way that means I’d like to see Ferrari, or their drivers, in this same situation, or any detrimental situation.

  283. napalmblower
    2nd April 2009, 19:00

    if mclaren and Lewis didnt lie , they can protest and that is the only way to go , why they not doing that ….?????

    I am not a mclaren fan , but it looks to me Mclaren making all there fans SORE LOSERS ….. it stinks

  284. Wouldn’t it be great if the fia took 50 percent down force off the cars, and bought back slicks, and something like KERS, it would make OVERTAKING more frequent and the best drivers would come from I dont know say about 18th to third and it would be just was Ecclestone and Mosley wanted.
    Still we all live in hope I dont think that would ever happen
    Didnt someone say not so long ago I would love to see how lewis fairs in a slow car Well my Mosley you have your answer official classifacation says he didnt finish.

  285. So the farse has started all over again.

    Hamilton disqualified, the diffuser problem yet to be resolved, etc. The 2008 season was totally marred by political manouvering and bad stewards decisions.

    When will the FIA, Bernie Ecclestone and the other decision makers realise that it is seriously ******* off F1 fans.

    I have recently re-discovered Moto GP. If you want to see exciting motor sport get hold of a recording of the 2008 Laguna Seca race and you’ll be converted instantly. What’s more in the last 4 years I have been watching Moto GP there have been no politics and no bad decisions!

    Maybe F1 could learn something from the way Moto GP is managed.

  286. This is outrageous… if Lewis is excluded from 2009 I will be boycotting the season. Not that Max or Bernie would care, but this is ridiculous!!!

    The Hamilton/McLaren witch hunt continues

  287. theRoswellite
    2nd April 2009, 19:35

    Current statement in the press….

    With the FIA now admitting that ‘given the seriousness of this matter, we cannot rule out further action’, there have been suggestions that Hamilton could yet be suspended from future grands prix or even – some fear – excluded from the entire 2009 world championship


    This incident is growing into a megmatter, and it may settle the Hamilton championship defense before it begins (zero points at present).

    Whatever happens I would advise Lewis to be absolutely forthright about this matter, and do it sooner rather than later….not as a functionary of McLaren, but as the present World Champ. He is playing around with his reputation. Once seriously tarnished, no amount of effort will restore it to a former luster…(and if he is wondering how not to behave, check with one MS, he probably still has some unused road maps to moral oblivion)

  288. napalmblower makes a very good point here…

    If McLaren truly believe they did not lie and do not deserve this penalty, then why are they not appealing the decision?

    Ok, an appeal would probably not change the decision, but by not appealing it is making them look more guilty than the FIA’s evidence already shows.

    Yes, the FIA have made some questionable decisions recently. But this time, either:

    a) the FIA is lying (in which case McLaren would surely be protesting the decision) or

    b) Hamilton and McLaren were lying and have been caught out

    I know which one sounds more believable to me.

    1. Becuase Max is a lawyer (loosely) and knows how to fix it so that he can win before he enters the game. Mclaren know this and they don’t need the extra publicity. Toyota also knew this but have lucked out with the FIA wheels of “justice” starting to turn.

      I really hope no further sanctions will come from this because it will stink of over-inflated egos and self-importance on the part of the FIA. Sport indeed (loosely).

  289. Without getting to involved in the discussions, HOORAAY for toyota!

  290. Well Mr Hamilton Looks like Max has thrown you into the dungeon again and given you a right good whipping!!!

  291. What needs to be done is the FIA needs to make the information public. Show the videotape of Trulli and Hamilton on track, provide us with the McLaren team
    radio broadcasts, prove that they committed wrong.
    This situation is an embarrassment to Formula One, everybit as much as the shambles that last years
    Belgium Gp became. Unlike the events at Spa, we had to wait half a week for the FIA to come up with a decision.
    This is just unacceptable in any professional environment, in any sport. It really does point towards
    the suspicion that Formula One is just rigged, which is a terrible thought for any diehard fan.
    The 2009 Australian Gp was supposed to signal the
    start of a new era, in which Formula One returned to more exciting racing with a playing field dramatically more level than in recent years. In one foul swoop, the FIA have made us all look like fools for believing that
    things can ever change.

  292. sighhh so annoyed with this…

    If something occured that was worthy of disqualification, why make it retrospectively? Why not make the penalty/DQ valid for the next race, Like – in fact – every other sport in the world…

    There is no point in watching it anymore really, because you know the incompetents(my new collective noun for a bunch of FIA stewards..) will just change it…

    A different farce, same old FIA…

  293. All the FIA have to do to clear this up is publish what was said when Hamilton and Ryan met with the stewards. Why release all pertinent information but this?

    I just find it hard to believe Hamitlon would tell a journalist that he had been told to let Trulli past and knowing the steards had access to radio then straight-up lie to them. Until the FIA actually publish proof that he did lie, I will question this decision.

    As for McLaren not protesting this, I’m not sure the FIA would let them get anywhere with it.

  294. The FIA are going to have to be careful. When is a race over anymore? I mean, all this controversy with the rules and bickering between teams is just unneccessary and just ruins the sport.

    I don’t believe McLaren, or any team for that matter, would lie intentionally especially with the FIA wanting to hand out punishments that are not just.

    I believe if a team/driver breaks the rules then it should not affect the race at which it participated if the FIA can not set a punishment within the race,
    i.e. drive through or stop go
    so the punishment should be given for next race like qualifying time penalty and/or fine. Least the race would be finished when we seen the cars cross the line, NOT days/weeks later.

    1. Still no transcript of the hearing… seems really odd that the FIA would release everything, except that. Really odd.

  295. for everyone who thinks that this is a crazy decision, it isnt, there is big evidence mclaren let trulli pass. its all in this car-to-pit transmission:

    Transcript of the radio transmission between Lewis Hamilton and his team:

    Team: OK Lewis, you should need to make sure your delta is positive over the safety car line. After the safety car line the delta doesn’t matter but no overtaking. No overtaking.

    Lewis Hamilton: The Toyota went off in a line at the second corner, …, is this OK?

    Team: Understood, Lewis. We’ll confirm and get back to you.

    LH: He was off the track. He went wide.

    Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.

    LH: OK.

    LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.

    Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.

    LH: I let him past already.

    Team: OK, Lewis. That’s fine. That’s fine. Hold position. Hold position.

    LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.

    Team: I understand Lewis. We are checking. Now can we go to yellow G 5, yellow Golf 5.

    LH: I don’t have to let him past I should be able to take that position back, if he made a mistake.

    Team: Yes, we understand Lewis. Let’s just do it by the book. We are asking Charlie now. You are in P4. If you hold this position. Just keep it together.

    Team: OK Lewis, your KERS is full, your KERS is full. Just be aware. You can go back to black F2, black Foxtrott 2.

    LH: Any news from Charlie whether I can take it back or not.

    Team: Still waiting on a response Lewis, still waiting.

    Team: Lewis, work on your brakes please. Front brakes are cold.

    Team: If we are able to use one KERS that would be good. If you deploy KERS please do so now.

    Team: OK, Lewis, this is the last lap of the race. At the end of the lap the safety car will come in, you just proceed over the line without overtaking, without overtaking. We are looking into the Trulli thing, but just hold position.

    1. Thanks for that Dan. God knows how or why they screwed up so royally after this.
      Seems to me like Lewis IS following team orders.

    2. there is big evidence mclaren let trulli pass.

      That isn’t why they gave the penalty. Read the stewards explanation again:

      The Stewards, having learned about the radio exchanges and the Media interview, felt strongly that they had been misled by the driver and his Team Manager

    3. Does anyone know what “yellow golf 5” and “black foxtrott 2” is? obviously codeword for something.

    4. It’s part of the NATO phonetic alphabet:

      f = foxtrot
      g = golf

      Full list here. Each letter corresponds to a distinctive word and they’re commonly used over radio broadcasts so letters can be easily identified.

      Presumably the colours refer to a dial or something on the steering wheel.

    5. Thanks for clearing that up!

  296. @ i Blaze

    Good links. Pretty damning evidence I would say.
    Honda got a 2 race ban for cheating back in 2005 with the extra fuel tank. I would expect at least the same in this instance.

    1. What the FIA has quoted proves McLaren instructed Hamilton to let Trulli pass. But it doesn’t prove they lied about it – that’s McLaren’s word against the FIA’s. Perhaps they will publish the transcript of the stewards’ hearing later, and then we’ll know for sure.

  297. Keith Duncan
    2nd April 2009, 20:31

    Can we have a way of filtering out comments with unbelievable spelling mistakes? Ok, so “deliberately” can be a tricky one for non-English speakers, but “McLaren”? Please, i don’t want to read any more about “Maclaren” cheaterzzz…

    1. ridiculous. Makes me want Hamilton to quit this stupid ‘sport.’ Alonso had it right – this isn’t a sport anymore.

    2. Bernification
      3rd April 2009, 1:24

      That would be disguting.

      His highness Schumacher can ram people off the track, ignore black flags, park in the middle of the track and get nothing but a slap on the wrist and worship from Max and Bernice.

      I can’t see McLaren being so stupid as trying to lie to the stewards. I’m reserving judgement on this one until the transcripts of the enquiry are released.

      Massive own goal if they did though. Really silly.

  298. What a bunch of junk!!!

    Keith did a very good job on the article, and my favorite point he makes is about other racing series where the teams and drivers can check in with officials about the running order. On that same note, we don’t see running orders and official results being changed days afterward very often in those series either.

    I can see that Lewis and the team had a mix-up at best, a deliberate mislead at worst. If they are going tobe punished, fine, but do it after the race, and get it right the first time!!! This political nonsense is ruining the sport- I really don’t even feel like dragging myself out of bed at 4:30 AM this weekend to watch Malaysia when I know Lewis is going to be hit with another joker penalty. And if he’s excluded, they’ll figure out something to get Heikki with, or maybe Max and co. will want to slow down the Brawns and change that result after the race as well.

    The FIA are incompetent morons- as I said before, the officials at my local dirt track oval do a more professional job of regulating races.

  299. It’s unreasonable to conclude that Hamilton would tell the worlds media one scenario before telling the stewards the another. Especially due to the fact that they have access to radio, data and footage which as it happens confirms the truth of his (and Trullis’) statements.

    There is clearly a misunderstanding in the stewards meeting, definately not a conscious attempt to mislead. When people of different nationalities enter a conversation is it out of the question to have some misunderstandings?

    The stewards have got this shockingly wrong. But why am I not entirely suprised?

    Hamilton did nothing wrong.
    Trulli did nothing wrong.

    The stewards made a catastrophic blunder by acting on instinct instead of the evidence.

    1. Than you for bringing that up. I actually have thought the same thing, but with no evidence to base it on. Could having English as a foreign language caused any issue in the confusion at the initial hearing? I like to think not, but I still cant imagine that McLaren/Hamilton would intentionally try to mislead the stewards into thinking one thing when all the public data they had access to said something else. Especially if McLaren thought the stewards had already done their due diligence and reviewed the audio/video before the hearing.

    2. The guy who did the hearings is Alan Donnely. He’s Brittish right?

      Just checked him on Wiki. This is what Wikipedia has to say about him:
      “He is known for awarding penalties to Lewis Hamilton, which are often controversial. He previously worked for Ferrari.”

      Still I agree completely with your sentiment (I think I posted the same thing here a few posts up actually). The whole thing just makes no sense at all.

      BTW the team probably was speaking the truth when they said they didn’t order Hamilton to let Trulli pas. The dufus on the radio was quite surprised that Trulli was passed already. I guess he forgot he just ordered Hamilton to let Trulli pass “NOW”.

      Could be that Hamilton was confused too. He obviously was told that he should not have let Trulli pass, so he might very well have assumed that he heard it wrong the first time. So He might have assumed that he didn’t officially get the order to let him pass.

      To the press he would still have to explain why he let Trulli pass and that was because he thought he got the order. Makes sense he leaves the “thought” out in his explanation to the press, because it sounds rather silly.

      Also, the team WAS discussing the matter and during this Trulli passed and the team did NOT expect this. So far everything Whitmarsh said adds up.

      The only thing that does not compute is the claim that Hamilton would have said that he did not consciously let Trulli pass. I cannot believe he actually said that. Or not as literaly as they claim he did.

      It’s pretty likely this was a simple misunderstanding. For instance, maybe they asked “Did you want to let Trulli pass?”, Answer “No”.

      We really need the transcripts of the hearings. Something very fishy is going on there.

  300. I haven’t read through all the comments – what a response! But I’d like to add my thoughts.

    McLaren have been punished under the rules for what I’d call ‘unsportsmanlike conduct’, and they should take it on the chin and move on.

    In typical F1 style, they pushed the boundaries and got caught. They deserve their punishment.

    I’m a McLaren fan, and I’m slightly ashamed.

    1. Oooh ‘unsportsmanlike conduct’ – thats a good way to describe it. I agree with what you said there, and I really do hope it all moves on soon – each race should be done and dusted by the next one at the very latest! I dotn want to go into the Malaysian race wondering if Hamilton will recieve any firther punihsment – he could end up racing and getting disqualified anyways – would be a waste. Not that I think he should get owt else, but it seems like theres a good chance a race ban or so may occur – but they cant justify giving anything worse than BAR/Honda fuel tank issues the other year!

    2. Goodness me, I do apologise for my typing there it was horrendous!

  301. Sherman Tank
    2nd April 2009, 20:58

    Feel sorry for Hamilton but the evidence is their, just seen the vt from Trulli’s car on BBC and it leaves no question.

    Begining to doubt every result on F1 races as it seems all to often the result is changed off the track.

    1. just seen the vt from Trulli’s car on BBC and it leaves no question.

      Hamilton has been punished because he and the team allegedly lied to the stewards. Unless the video from Trulli’s camera also caught a glimpse inside the stewards’ room after the race, it doesn’t tell us what we need to know.

    2. Sherman Tank
      2nd April 2009, 21:12

      Fair comment Keith,

      I wish this sport wasn’t so flustrating.

    3. You and me both! :-)

    4. Actually that camera footage from Trulli would shed some light on this.

      Hamilton claims he didn’t slow down. Just that he was reading something on his steering wheel and slowed down slightly. Trulli claims Hamilton almost stopped. The FIA now accepts Trulli’s claim says that Hamilton was lying. The radio communication doesn’t clear up wether Hamilton really slowed down. Whitmarsh claims to have presented evidence that Hamilton did not slow down (a lot).

      Camera footage of Trulli overtaking Hamilton would sure put an end to this.

    5. The footage is on the bbc website. Hamilton did not slow to a stop… in fact I’m suprised that Trulli took the place like he did…. arrrrghhhh!!!!

    6. Wish I could see the on board footage of Trulli passing somewhere, but I guess the BBC is blocking it for people outside the UK. All I get (on the page that iBlaze mentions) is two audio clips.

      Does it show for you brits here:

      If Hamilton didn’t “stop” then Trulli is lying and I don’t see anything where Hamilton actually could be shown to have been lying.

      At least I feel that a question like “Did you follow team orders to let Trulli pass?” could be answered both yes and no.

    7. Holy cow, I found a clip on YouTube which probably shows the overtake. Is it at the end of the straight where Trulli almost takes Hamiltons front off?


      If so, are FIA kidding me? The stewards didn’t watch this footage? They don’t accept Whitmarsh’s telemetry proof that Hamilton didn’t slow to a crawl?


  302. Just listened to the audio from Trulli’s rig during the final SC period…obviously HE didnt know if Hamilton’s overtake was legal either as he wanted to know if he was ok to take back the position. This is completely messed up.

    1. Could you hear in that if Trulli told his team he went off the track?

    2. Ah I’ve heard now that Trulli said Hamilton went past “…when I was coming back onto the track.”.
      Trulli’s pit seems to completely ignore this fact and asks if it was under yellow when Hamilton when past.
      After all this I think the Toyota penalty should be maintained as well as the McLaren DQ.

    3. I’m sorry pSynrg, but have you watched the footage? Trulli was miles off track. Was hamilton supposed to just stop on the track?

  303. One thing I don’t understand, which maybe someone can clarify, why is what any team or driver say relevent to decisions made by the stewards, shouldn’t they be making decisions independently?

    1. they have all the team audio at their disposal, so yes why not. I guess you’ll have to direct that question to the race stewards.

  304. everybody knew lewis slowed down to let trulli back past,even i did…

  305. This is so wrong this is

    just stupid. those stinging stewards are just try to blow his carear again!Someone is out to get Lewis Hamilton I don’t if its the FIA,the Stewards or Ferrari.I am not saying that i don’t like Ferrari.I love how they drive and they are very good.

  306. Colin Riddy
    2nd April 2009, 21:14

    Ham overtakes Trul cos Trul fell off behind the safety car cos he is a spanner, then, Ham moves over to give Trul space, but does not slow down. Ham loses third to Trul but accepts 4th is a good result considering where he started, so does not retake (remember spa 08). Trul takes the glory of the podium, then the stewards decide 25 sec penalty to Trul, for which an appeal is inadmissible (according to spa 08). Ham takes third. Trul penalty is very harsh but Toyota drop appeal. Fia change the results cos they remembered they put some bets on down the bookies (approx £50m) that Ham would not finish. Trul rightfully reinstated. Great Brawn win overshadowed by controversy.

    I should be surprised or even shocked that fia could cock* up the results so badly, but the sad truth is that this is the current state of the sport, where, unlike other sports, the results are predetermined and sometimes differ from what was viewed.

    Sorry, but this debate got out of hand, firstly, where does it say in the rules that the driver must tell the truth? secondly, where does it say you will be disqualified for not telling the truth? Surely, the cars should do the talking on the track (apologies for the corny phrase). I do not condone misleading the stewards, but the penalty is disproportional to the crime.

    Don’t forget Toyota misled the stewards cos they said they had a legal rear wing but when checked it was flexing too much, they had a harsh punishment but were not disqualified. Does this mean we can reopen previous years championships and appeal that drivers be disqualified if they didn’t tell the truth. Maybe shumacher would not have won anything.

    *(ooops, sorry max, did i say ‘cock’? wasn’t supposed to turn you on).

    1. Toyota were disqualified – its why they had to start from the pitlane – plus they didnt mislead the stewards – the rear wing was there for all to see (although why it took til after qualifying to noticed is beyond me!) – and it was changed in time for the race so they were indeed perfectly legal.

      And the problem with not telling the truth in this instance was than another driver got unfairly penalised and lost his position for not doing anything wrong, and i am by no means a fan of Trulli. Whether it was Hamilton, the team or whoever, there was a problem with the information given to the stewards originally – which led to an unfair penalty on another driver. Surely at a stewards enquiry you are required to give all information possible (and i am by no means an expert – surprisngly i havent been in one of these enquiries!) – telling the truth is very imporatant in these things – not giving accurate information which leads to a rival being handed a penalty when you have information that proves otherwise is definitely punishable! The penalty is deserved – although i dont beleive any more penalty should be handed out – certainly not a championship ban or owt – far worse ‘cheating’ has happened in the past (BAR/Honda and thier fuel tank springs to mind!) This incident was spur of the moment, that fuel tank one was done in complete awareness!

    2. Macademianut
      3rd April 2009, 1:08


      There’s no proof that HAM lied. FIA still has to post the audio or transcript of their first meeting with HAM and TRU. Until then, they just assert that HAM lied. It’s just their word.

      Radio communication is also open record, just like rear wing. So, the stewards should have just gone with it. If you had asked TRU if his rear wing is according to spec during the qualifying session, he would have said YES (or any of his team members). But, then the stewards did not ask that question. Instead, they chose to directly check it themselves.

    3. I dont know whether he did or not – but there was a problem with the information given somewhere, else nothing would have happened about it. Whether it was Hamilton, the team or whatever, someone failed to fully outline the radio conversation. Pleading ignorance is no excuse. It should have been clearly stated that Hamilton was told to let Trulli past – one can assume given the penalty handed to Hamilton, that this was not clearly expressed.

      I too cannot fathom why the radio conversation was not proof enough in the first place not to have given Trulli a penalty – you can clearly hear the team telling Hamilton to move over for Trulli – which is why i wonder if a ‘lie’ did occur, or some bending of the truth – not necessarily from Hamilton, but by someone. I cant prove this, but surely they wouldnt dish out a disqualification over absolutely nothing.

  307. The FIA got something right! There are a lot of people claiming that this is rubbush, but the evidence is all solid. I know Keith will say that we don’t have a transcript from the first stewards meeting, but do we really need that? I think McLaren would have a pretty strong reaction if nothing of the such was said in the meeting. The only reaction came from Martin Whitmarsh who said that Hamilton was not at fault, but the team is to blame. I think if McLaren were very confident that neither Lewis or someone from the team did not make any misleading comments, then an appeal would be issued and we would be hearing a lot more from the team.

    1. I think if McLaren were very confident that neither Lewis or someone from the team did not make any misleading comments, then an appeal would be issued and we would be hearing a lot more from the team.

      That’s a good point – up until now my reasoning had been “the FIA could put this beyond all doubt by publishing the details of the stewards’ meeting, so why aren’t they?”.

      But I think the most important thing here isn’t that McLaren got their story wrong or the FIA aren’t being straight with us – whichever it is.

      It’s that this whole sorry mess could and should have been avoided from the start. As long as everyone’s up in arms about what McLaren might have done the FIA aren’t under pressure to fix their stewarding rules and processes which are obviously inadequate.

    2. I think almost that McLaren couldn’t be bothered to appeal. They know they would lose. It’s almost resignation. Quite why the team have to declare their own radio communciations I still do not understand…. can somebody explain this?

      The stewards have at their disposal all the radio communications throughout the race. I’ve listened to all the radio communications, and Hamilton as far as I’m concerened tried is damned hardest to do the right thing. Seems like even that wasn’t good enough for Donnelly $ : )

  308. I’m approaching the conclusion that the stewards DID NOT review the radio comms at all during the hearing.

    “From the video recordings available to the Stewards during the hearing it appeared…”


    This is shocking, the stewards appear to have dished out punishments without even considering all the data available to them.

    I am hugely disappointed by this. They have a responsibility to reach an appropriate and most importantly justified conclusion when dealing with incidents yet in this case they clearly didn’t do their job.

    I fear this is a direct consequence of the “faster stewards descisions” promise from last year.


    They are incompetant at the best of times, now they are just rash.

    1. Macademianut
      3rd April 2009, 1:03

      Yes. The stewards “selectively chose” what data to use to give out the punishment.

      They did not want to look bad, so now they are saying that Hamilton lied to them. They had the radio conversation at their disposal all the time. Instead of taking the time to look into it, they gave out their 25s penalty in a hurry.

      Now, you cannot go back and take that punishment back. As that would simply mean that FIA was wrong. Instead, they have come up with a cover up plan.

      Until FIA releases the audio of their questioning of HAM and TRU, I cannot believe what FIA saying is the truth.

      They handed out a punishment to Trulli without providing a reason for how they came to that conclusion. Now, they are handing out a decision to HAM without giving us the proof that he lied.

  309. Ah bugger it! Take no prisoners Lewis, this one didn’t work out. But Champion drivers should use everything they can get away with under such circumstances.
    Many have done it before, non better than Schumacher.
    I enjoy clever use of such tactics, it’s part of the game that is the sport of F1.

    This one was not so clever…

    1. Lol, this is the biggest comments section ever and of course it involves Lewis Hamilton.
      The media must adore this kid, he is a walking tornado of stories…

    2. Sherman Tank
      2nd April 2009, 21:31


      Yea come on Lewis, its water under the bridge now. Seasons starts when the FIA let you back on the track. At least till then you can try and get that dog of a car working properly.

  310. if anything shouldn’t trulli have stayed in 12th and hamilton DQ’d? trulli still passed under the yellow didnt he? didnt he still committed an offence? really i think they should have put trulli 3rd n hami 4th n called it a day. im sure hami hasnt been the first driver to lie to the FIA…its only that he has been prob the first to be caught.

    1. If Hamilton did slow – which it appears he did, then Trulli committed no more of an offence than Hamilton did by passing him when Trulli went off. You are, i beleive, allowed to pass a car under saftey cars if they are off the track/slowing/hit a problem – which is what it would have seemed like if Lewis was slowing.

    2. Trulli passed under yellow flags but only after Hamilton slowed down to let him pass. Apparently he even tried to give back the position when he realized that maybe he was wrong (at least according to him). So Trulli, in some sense, had no choice but to pass Lewis and stay in front.

  311. A couple of points:

    How on earth can the stewards make a decision on what a driver says?

    Why did the stewards not analyze all the data they are allowed full access to? i.e video and audio of the incident and radio traffic

    Hamilton has not been accused of lying but of with holding information vital to the decision. How can someone with hold something you already have?

    Why would Hamilton try to lie or withhold info? Surely he knows he would never get away with it as everything is recorded, especially interviews.

    Why did the stewards not deal with the situation during the race, if you listen to the MMB radio convo, they could not get an answer from Charlie.

    Seems to me that the stewards made a very rash and incorrect decision regarding Trulli and are now trying to blame Lewis et al. for their crazy mistake. Maclaren clearly wanted to do the right thing, you should listen to their radio chat. It is clear that they are so worried nowadays about getting penalized. It doesn’t sit with me that they would try to lie about the Trulli situation. Not for the sake of 1 point in the opening race of the season.

    Its another sad day for the sport, such a shame!

    1. Exactly, this whole affair is just ridiculous and due to imcompetence on the part of the stewards/FIA.

    2. here here

  312. michel S. has got it right. the logic of applying rules just as they are in the rule book has some merit – it saves the sport from randomly applied penalties (or does it?) and such reckless governing as that.

    however, there should be some room for allowing equivalent penalties ie. 25 second penalty for a driver who cannot take a stop/go or drive-thru AND the race finishes under safety car (admittedly, an unlikely occurence) is not a representative penalty.

    sensible logic dictates that we merely reverse the on-the-road finishing positions of hamilton and trulli. hamilton deserved his 4th place, it would have been an awesome result. trulli, even more so, given where he started.

    the misleading of the stewards issue seems bizarre given they have access to all radio transmissions. mclaren have been dumped on once again, though they are not entirely blameless in this instance

  313. Is someone out to get Hamilton? because it sure seems like it, i understand that he got his penalization for lying to the FIA, which if true he deserved, but there is also a rumor going around that he may get penalized even more and DSQ from the rest of the season, that is ridiculous, can anyone remember Schumacher taking out Hill in Adelaide 1994, did he get a penalty? Back to this though from the sounds of it, McLaren only told Hamilton to give Truilli his place back so they didn’t get into trouble, like Belgium. Its all misleading and I think if the FIA make their mind up about 1 thing then they should stick to it, and not bring it to another race weekend which in turn could spoil another race. But at the end of the day i think the big talking point should have been Kubica and Vettel, taking each other out, not an over taking procedure.

    The FIA arnt just out to spoil Hamilton but are out to spoil the sport.

    FIA – F***ing Idiots Association

  314. Ok, I think I’ve found the exact “misleading evidence” that the FIA are talking about.

    Here is a Q&A with Martin Whitmarsh from autosport.com

    Here is the key point:

    Q. Lewis after the race only spoke about getting past Trulli, but never mentioned stopping and giving the place back…

    MW: He didn’t stop, and the telemetry data which was shown to the stewards today showed that the lap on which he was overtaken was no different from the succeeding lap that was under the safety car. It was difficult conditions but there was no evidence from the data that Lewis did anything that induced Trulli to go past.

    Presumably this is exactly what both McLaren and Lewis Hamilton also told the stewards. However, from the “new evidence” of the McLaren radio conversation, Lewis Hamilton clearly says “I let him past already.”

    Of course, without a transcript of who said what to the FIA stewards it is impossible to know for sure, but this is the best evidence available that McLaren and Hamilton DID mislead the FIA. Therefore, any punishment is fully justifiable in my opinion.

    1. If Whitmarsh said the same to the FIA then McLaren deserved the penalty.

    2. “I let him past already” could mean anything! That phrase by itself doesn’t give intent: it’s perfectly acceptable if slightly colloquial speech spoken by a guy driving a very fast car! In this case it could also mean that Lewis didn’t put up any kind of fight when Trulli moved to pass him … born out by the Toyota onboard video.

      I’d love to be able to speak that coherently at 70 Mph let alone the speeds those guys do!

      We need the stewards meeting transcripts. Until then everything is conjecture. That’s unless it’s proved that Max Mosely’s no.2 Alan Donnelly was the one handing out the punishments. I’ve seen no evidence of this so far though.

  315. Mclaren cheating again. When will it end?

  316. Whatever the Hamilton situation, Trulli did re-pass under the safety car – so how come his penalty for that didn’t stand. It has nothing whatsoever to do with what Hamilton and McLaren did or didn’t do?

    Perhaps the FIA should give McLaren, and Hamilton a penalty – a sort of handicap as it were of, say a minute or more at the beginning of the season for anything they may or not do wrong. It seems to me that whatever happens the FIA are going to get them one way or the other. Then, if they do ‘win’ the Championship, that time can be deducted from random races to make sure that win is cancelled out and they cannot be Champions. By then Ferrari will probably be in second place – so for the FIA everything will be just how they like to see it! Of course over time all the fans and spectators will give up watching F1 so none of this will matter at all.

    I am beginning to lose interest – perhaps soon F1 will be of more interest to lawyers than racing car fans!!

    1. He repassed because Hamilton slowed – thats no different from the way Hamilton passed Trulli in the first place when he went off – technically – as far as Trulli was concerend Hamilton could have been slowing from a problem or summat – he didnt have much choice but to re-pass, just like Lewis didnt when Trulli went off the road.

  317. I think the simple way of putting this is – right decision, but poorly executed.

  318. BowtNetterToDo
    2nd April 2009, 22:13

    I would like to see a transcript of the meeting with the stewards to see what was asked and said by whom. We have access to the rest of the pertinent evidence like oncar footage, fans trackside footage and team radio conversations. The stewards meeting transcript is the only missing piece of the jigsaw that i need to make my own mind up.

    1. Exactly, that’s all the FIA need to do to prove Hamilton lied and shift any suspicion that may have fallen on them and yet they still haven’t released a transcript.

  319. Why is everyone here so childish? He’s black, FIA helps Ferrari, blah blah blah…

    Hamilton and McLaren were caught cheating. They deliberately misled the panel after the race so that they’d inherit 3rd place with Trulli’s penalty. He got disqualified.

    What’s the big deal? Cheating is cheating. One thing’s for sure, I’m glad Trulli got a just hearing, because he was honest throughout the process and was always consistent with his statements.

    Let the Sepang race begin!

    1. “They deliberately misled the panel after the race so that they’d inherit 3rd place with Trulli’s penalty. He got disqualified.”

      Errr. Because you have no evidence of this. Why don’t the FIA issue the transcripts if it’s so obvious?

    2. They don’t have to. McLaren already apologised, so they obviously know they’ve done SOMETHING wrong.

    3. Throughly agree with your comment, Senor Paz. Reading through all these comments, one thought struck me, what if Hamilton did end up at Ferrari as one of their drivers. What would all of the FIA is anti-Hamilton but pro-Ferrari conspirators have to say. I mean the FIA would be so torn between its two supposed objectives. The FIA make a decision that in no way assists Ferrari as both their cars failed in the race and yet people are still saying the decision was made to assist Ferrari. The only thing I will criticise is the time in which the decision was made. If you look at other sports like horse racing which involve stewards, the decision occurs within a short time after the race. In F1, there seems to be too much of a rush to get to the podium and the spraying of the champagne. I guess it is due to the ratings for the podium and the post race interviews. Good ratings but bad press later for not delaying result. I think Trulli was honest throughout and I can’t believe that McLaren didn’t just admit to be confused and just accept the lost of 1 point in 4th position!

  320. It’s also extremely revealing McLaren promply accepted the harsh penalty and claimed they won’t even appeal.

    Good on them for pleading guilty.

    1. halifaxf1fan
      3rd April 2009, 1:51

      Senor Paz, they didn’t plead guilty. they were caught lying.

  321. It boils down to this for me; unless the FIA shows me cold hard proof, I will continue to doubt that Hamilton and McLaren would be supid enough to “deliberately mislead” the stewards.

    1. Yes you heard me – supid. ;)

    2. Completely agree with the description of McLaren’s posture as ‘stupid’. Now you just have to believe it. :)

    3. All the proof you should need is that McLaren instantly said they would not appeal the decision. The only reason they would do that is if they knew it was just.

      You don’t need to know what happened. McLaren, the FIA, and the stewards know what conspired, and McLaren have accepted the FIA, and the stewards take on the event.

  322. another “classic” move by the FIA. i think its great for the sport when it takes 5 days to make a decision….. whatever the penalty is then thats fine, but make that judgment within a reasonable amount of time…..

  323. Out and out lying to the Stewards to get a competitor penalised deserves to be punished. A DQ from the race seems reasonable to me.

  324. Hamilton got off lightly – he should have been hit harder.

  325. So was Hamilton honest throughout, or told to change his story by McLaren? Sounds as though McLaren lied and Hamilton was taken down as a result, in which case it would’ve been fairer to remove the constructors points but keep the drivers.

    1. It seems to me he was simply told by the team to deny that he was asked to let Trulli pass. It’s so silly because quite possibly Lewis never intended to deceive, but the team saw a chance to inherit the podium finish by saying the right thing when asked by the stewards after the race.

      However, he did lie to the stewards WHEN ASKED ABOUT IT. I think he’ll have to pay the price for a stupid decision by McLaren.

  326. If Hamilton said the words then he’s guilty of the crime. He’s his own person and doesn’t have to say whatever the team may have suggested he says.

  327. Surely I can’t be the only one perplexed as to why the stewards are interrogating drivers when they have completely accurate telemetry and radio data at their finger tips to make fair decisions?

    1. That’s a good point Jamie, but, since Hamilton was heard and told a lie, he deserves to be punished. I don’t think he should have been disqualified, but only dropped back to fourth… perhaps heavy fines for him and the team, and a loud warning, establishing he will be excluded from the championship if he does it again, or something like this, would be appropriate, IMO, since his lies didn’t give him an advantage on track in Melbourne…

      They should not forget that, were they in a court, it would be perjury, a crime (almost every western Penal Code say so…)

    2. Lets face it, every minor racing incident McLaren and Hamilton were involved in last season ended in them somehow being punished. Perhaps given this they felt compelled to omit information, I certainly wouldn’t blame them for feeling that way. How could it make things worse right?

      I feel a transcript or minutes of the stewards meeting would go a long way towards backing up the punishment Hamilton has been given. It seems highly unprofessional they can make such a decision without at least providing proof to the public of who supposedly omitted what. Instead we get audio clips that don’t prove anything.

      Is it any wonder there are so many conspiracy theories floating around when the stewards seem unable to conduct themselves properly. They have all this technology to help them make decisions with little or no driver input, yet they prefer the good cop, bad cop interrogation routine with the drivers behind the scenes. It’s not good enough really.

  328. @ Al
    It seems that Keith had it spot on about yellow golf 5 and black foxtrott 2.

    As you can see in the picture the yellow dial on the mp4-24 steering wheel has a letter G under it, and conveniently the button is placed on 5. The black dail has a F above it so it confirms this theory.


  329. Stupid boy

  330. Its clear by the video and radio evidence that Mac / HAM mislead the stewards… Get over it blinkered HAM lovers! Congrats to Trulli. Alonso will be declared winner if Defuses are ruled out. Poor old Ron will unleash the fury!

  331. FIA: ‘During the hearing, held approximately one hour after the end of the race, the Stewards and the Race Director questioned Lewis Hamilton and his Team Manager David Ryan specifically about whether there had been an instruction given to Hamilton to allow Trulli to overtake. Both the driver and the team manager stated that no such instruction had been given. […] The race director specifically asked Hamilton whether he had consciously allowed Trulli to overtake. Hamilton insisted that he had not done so.’

    1) The radio transcript proves the instruction had been given, though it was rescinded. So Hamilton and Ryan did, effectively, lie to FIA.

    2) Hamilton indicates on the radio transcript that he let Trulli pass and verifies Trulli’s claim that he (Trulli) slowed by or in front of him to let Hamilton re-take the position if he wanted (Hamilton radio: ‘he’s slowed right down in front of me’). This almost overwhelmingly suggests Hamilton did let Trulli pass consciously. So probably a second lie.

    Unless there’s a further twist, always possible, it seems very damning indeed of Hamilton and McLaren. A real let down to those who’ve supported him so far.

    1. I still don’t understand… why wasn’t this radio conversation reviewed by the FIA before giving Trulli a 25 sec penalty and awarding Hamilton 3rd. WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!!???????? PLEASE tell me!

    2. Because they thought Hamilton and McLaren would tell the truth?

      Odd but it really seems to have been the case.

  332. Well we are currently shocked, couldn’t this be somehow avoided?

  333. As a neutral, I’m not sure why people are so sure of McLaren and Hamilton lying/cheating. There is not enough evidence out there to make such a statement (unless FIA releases transcripts of the hearing). To make a quick-fire statement like that would be just like the FIA – making a decision without all the facts.

    If McLaren really wanted to take third, they would have instructed Hamilton to not let Trulli re-pass but they settled for 4th willingly (from the sound of the radio comm.) How could they plan to lie at a hearing for Trulli’s re-pass? There’s no way they would’ve known that would happen.

    I wonder if what people would say if it were Williams in the same situation.

    1. No evidence? Rubbish, McLaren has formally apologised and claimed no appeal. You’d think THEY would want the transcripts if they were being unfairly penalised.

    2. Good on you for finally making an opinion based on some facts rather than conjecture. I’m not saying FIA doesn’t have evidence, I’m saying as of yesterday, all we could do was speculate, not condemn anyone.

  334. the fia has done a pretty good job with the entire situation, but it shouldn’t have gone this far. as keith said, teams should be able to get the race director on the phone for confirmation. race control should have the entire track on camera as well.

    2 things i don’t get:

    how on earth does mclaren think they would get away with such a weak deception? did they intend to get away with it, or were they out to prove a point (no pun intended)?

    how does any rational person see this as incompetence or corruption on the part of the governing body? perhaps i’ve answered my own question there :)

    it’s a shame, really. they had in hand much more than they expected, and now they’re convicted thieves and liars. what’s next, murder?

  335. Hamilton was told to let Trulli past and then told not to let Trulli past. Which one take more weight?

    Hamilton said, I let him past already, it doesn’t mean he slowed down, it just means Trulli had already gone past.

    Those who say there is a video that shows this happening..where is it?
    Driver’s statement can not change a result, Check the telemetry, don’t use a loophole to save face. The FIA messed things up, they are trying to correct a mistake by making an even bigger one. The Telemetry will show if a driver slowed down, not if he was asked to slow down.

  336. Honestly, I didn’t think it was hunting season already so soon. This year the season started early. The FIA must have re-organised their forecasts and forwarded their targets for this year. Normally they’d **** up the sport for the fans around midway through the season, that way most of us would have invested half a year on and would have no choice but to continue. This year they want to get rid of us as soon as possible.

    Again, we are presented with an FIA specialty where results are decided off the track and all the excitement of the race has been taken away from us. The incident involving Lewis and Trulli looked pretty simple and could be solved via telemetry and radio transmissions. But I guess the proof was clear and not damaging enough. I mean, telemetry and radio transmissions don’t lie.

    It seems that recorded information was not to the stewards liking so they used a grey area subject – “felt misled”. They used “feelings” to alter the results even though the data is available to show how they should feel.

    My “feeling” about all this is that almost everybody, the FIA utmost, has a grudge on Lewis and are racist in nature. They somehow do not want Lewis to succeed. Why? Because he is black. There, plain and simple. The fact that he drives for McLaren doesn’t help.

    As much as I love F1 and can’t resist watching every race and lapping up everty little detail I could find about the sport, my interest and enthusiasm is actually dying now. I feel really sick and tired of the rubbish that is going on in the sport now. Most of the rubbish created and distributed by the FIA. I really have no mood to watch the race this weekend.

  337. Stuart Hotman
    3rd April 2009, 1:08

    Ok, so many of you have successfully demonstrated that you know very little about the hidden agenda behind formula 1. It is not actually a sport, it is a power war fueled by money.

    With FOTA, the teams associated have become a threat to the FIA and FOM, because they may start to get along so well that they might just break away and start their own championship. It is in the interest of the FIA, to strike a wedge between all the teams to ensure they dont get too friendly.

    This recent saga involving mclaren is just one example of how they play the teams off each other when everyone was playing nicely by themselves. The other current issue regarding illegal floors is another case where some teams submitted proposals which were rejected, yet other teams were allowed them. Also, KERS, some are now being considered illegal. The whole thing is a mess, but thats how they want it.

    It has to be noted that since FOTA has been formed, the FIA/stewards decisions have become gradually more insane and confusing. Have you noticed how the teams just seem to grin and bare it now, in the interest of FOTA.

    I say the sooner the teams get their act together and break away, the better. Free up the technical regs but where there is a rule, make it black and white. For goodness sake we cant keep changing the results after the race.

  338. Hmm…why everytime when Hamilton have penalty there will be sooooo much article and comment about it, but when Trulli had penalty it was more or less right thing?

    Other question is that why people think that Lewis or Mclaren did not lie and that FIA have to give proof that they did lie? Why people think that FIA lied and not Lewis???? Did we forget that McLaren has lied before….” We do not have any papers from Ferrari.”

    However it would be good to people understand that Lewis is not saint and he do mistakes. And this case he obviouslu lied and hopefully did learn his lesson.

    1. Snoopy, the reason there are so many comments on Lewis Hamilton may have something to do with the fact that this website is based in the U.K. and a very large percentage of the readership are from the U.K. It’s only natural that folks from the U.K. are fans of McLaren and Hamilton since he is the world champion and McLaren is British. (Disclaimer: Don’t take that the wrong way guys because it’s not a hit on British fans, Hamilton or anything like that!)

  339. halifaxf1fan
    3rd April 2009, 1:59

    nothing the stewards did or did not do is a reason for Lewis to choose to lie. in my view it is nothing more that pure greed that pushed Lewis and his team to lie. they wanted that point and lied to get it (ruining trulli’s great race in the process).

    a cold and calculated plan by the McLairen team. I expect the Lewis will be taking a couple of races off at the FIA’s request for this.

  340. I don’t understand why some people can’t accept the fact that the reason why Lewis was DQed was because he lied, and not because he do not know what to do under the safety car when trulli went off. Lewis LIED, MClaren LIED, thats the reason for them being DQed. “Liars go to hell” as we say it here in our country.

  341. GREED, that always comes after a championship (well, but not for all people). It will eat you sooner or later.

  342. Well my brother back in England watched the race in Melbourne for the first time since he quit watching F1 in disgust back in 2002. He was sick of the fia interferring with it’s Ferrari favouritism.

    He said he had enjoyed the race and thought Hamilton had done a good job, but then i told him about the exclusion today and he is livid. To quote my brother “nothing has changed then has it”.

    And i am beginning to feel like what is the point in following this ridiculous sport governed by asses.

    The sooner the teams stand up for themselves and their drivers the better and do away with the clowns in the fia and bernie.

    Maybe they could get people who runthe other motorsports in the likes of usa to help them run it properly and set it up the right way seeing as the fia have no idea how to do it right.

    I’m sure the likes of mosley and ecclestone would soon make things right if the teams quit.

    But FOTA need to push through with a breakaway championship not just threaten it, cos bernie knows they will back down if it is just a threat.

    They all need to use balls and do something positive

    regarding hamilton’s penalty we need to see what misleading comments were made during he hearing to make a informed comment about it.

    obviously he should be punished for lying to the stewards, but maybe they got it wrong.

    The stewards and the fia need to get their act together and be consistent.

    \yes it would be bad if the stewards came down badly on everyone, but if they did the same all the time then at least they would be consistent.

    end of rant.

  343. None of this would have happened if Lewis had just accepted the fact his team made a mistake & let Trulli go back past. The stewards asked him twice, he lied twice, he gets the penalty under the rules.
    Its that simple people!
    If you dont like the game, you dont have to play

    1. Please show me the “rule” where speaking to the stewards after the race alters the race result if you have been found to be economical with your version of events?

      And I ask you again, was Hamilton under oath?

      Racing starts and ends on track as far as I’m concerned.

  344. Looking at the published opinion over at the official mouthpiece website, Hamilton is being penalized for telling the media and the FIA that he was not told to let Trulli past. The transcripts themselves however show that Trulli had already gone past on his own accord when the team told Hamilton to let Trulli by. Therefore the issue of what McLaren did or didnt tell Hamilton to do as the cause of Trulli going past is entirely moot. I

    Hamilton did not “let” Trulli by nor was he instructed to do so. Trulli broke the clearest rule in the sport. Nonetheless, Trulli profits—because McLaren must be punished for violating a discovery rule related to FIA proceedings, or something. And not only does Trulli get away with breaking the rule, he gains what he lost by spinning off the track in the heat of a safety car period. He should be ashamed.

    Welcome to FIA jurisprudence. They create a record that defeats their own description of facts, and then craft an opinion that analyzes questions not at issue, resulting in a conclusion at odds with all reason and justice. Amateurs.

    1. dmw

      That’s not right. The radio transcripts show the team told Hamilton ‘let the Toyota pass Lewis’ before telling him to wait, which is when Hamilton stated ‘I’ve already let him past.’

      So why did LH and Ryan tell FIA that no such team order was given and that Hamilton didn’t ‘consciously’ let him pass? The onus is on Lewis and McLaren to explain themselves, not FIA. The team’s decision to accept the judgement and FIA’s statement seems to indicate that they can’t justify the answers given to FIA. Up until the point Lewis spoke to FIA, he’d had an excellent race and had done nothing wrong. One FIA inquiry later, his reputation is badly damaged. I think it’s really sad.

  345. If I were Hamilton, I’d be wishing I could leave Mclaren. Not only was he correct on radio when he said he didn’t have to give the place back he’s been royally screwed again by his team. I doubt he meant to give conflicting statements to the media and FIA (told to shut up and play along anyone?). Way to back your driver up Mclaren.