McLaren called before WMSC again: what will their punishment be?
Lewis Hamilton will be heading back to the World Motor Sports Council once again
Some developments are met with such little surprise they barely even qualify as ‘news’. The FIA summoning McLaren to appear before the World Motor Sports Council surely meets this criteria.
The team are being called to explain why they misled stewards about Lewis Hamilton allowing Jarno Trulli past under the safety car in the closing stages of the Australian Grand Prix.
It doesn’t take a cynic to see the result is a foregone conclusion as the team has already been found guilty once. But what will the punishment be, and why haven’t we seen the ‘disrepute’ rule being used for similar infractions?
The punishment
McLaren faces charges under article 151C of the International Sporting Code, that it has brought Formula 1 into disrepute – the same charged it faced over ‘Spygate’ two years ago.
On that occasion McLaren received a staggering fine of £50m ($100m at the time, though the final sum paid was less) and was excluded from the constructors’ championship.
Having been warned off further transgressions at the time, they could face an even harsher punishment at the hearing on April 29th. If the FIA do this, it is vital that not only the minutes of the WMSC meetings are made public, but also those of the original stewards meetings (if there are any – it has been suggested none are taken). F1′s reputation would suffer more harm if McLaren were perceived to have been subjected to a kangaroo court.
Notably absent from the FIA’s list of charges is any claim that McLaren brought a false appeal against Trulli, which has been suggested by some. This is because they did not, as the FIA’s documents makes clear:
The stewards, having received a report from the race director, have considered the following matter, determined a breach of the regulations has been committed…
Australian Grand Prix document 69
You can find the original document in the F1 Fanatic drop.io: aus09-document-686970-pdf
Dave Ryan
McLaren has admitted not telling the truth and today formally sacked Dave Ryan, the sporting director who had been with the team for 34 years. But questions are still being asked about where else responsibility lies within the team – whether with Martin Whitmarsh or Lewis Hamilton.
McLaren’s acceptance of the WMSC summoning was effusive in its promise of co-operation:
We undertake to co-operate fully with all WMSC processes, and welcome the opportunity to work with the FIA in the best interests of Formula 1.
And gave a clear hint their defence will be that Dave Ryan was responsible and they have taken the appropriate course of action:
This afternoon McLaren and its former sporting director, Dave Ryan, have formally parted company. As a result, he is no longer an employee of any of the constituent companies of the McLaren Group.
If that is their case, they will have to make abundantly clear they can prove it.
Lewis Hamilton
There has been much speculation about what effect this might have on the future of Lewis Hamilton. Will he, like Michael Schumacher in 1995, quit the team where his reputation has been tarnished by unsavoury allegations?
I have two thoughts on this comparison. First, how often did McLaren make these visits to the World Motor Sports Council before they promoted Hamilton to race driver in 2007? Quite rare, actually – certainly not as often as they have been since.
This just an observation of a pattern and not proof of anything. But it was interesting to see an FIA spokesperson suggest the governing body views Hamilton as a victim in the matter after his admission of guilt:
We recognise Lewis’s efforts to set the record straight today. It would appear that he was put in an impossible position.
Second, leaving Benetton ultimately did nothing to save Schumacher from having a reputation for, to put it mildly, being a bit of a scoundrel. More on that in a moment.
Disrepute
There have been a few occasions of teams being charged with bringing the sport into disrepute in recent years.
Before ‘spygate’ the most famous as Ferrari’s infamous use of team orders in the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix. The team were fined $1m – but that was for their drivers’ behaviour on the podium, the FIA specifically rejected the claim that the use of team orders brought F1 into disrepute (before banning them in 2003).
After McLaren the most recent team to face the charge was Renault, when it was accused by McLaren of using its intellectual property in the same way McLaren had been found guilty of using Ferrari’s. The FIA found Renault guilty but gave it no punishment “due to the lack of evidence that the championship has been affected.”
The truth
Misleading, obfuscation, whichever euphemism you prefer, there have occasions in recent years when prominent F1 individuals have given questionable accounts but not faced a similar investigation.
In 2006 Michael Schumacher denied he had deliberately stopped his Ferrari during qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix to impede his rivals. The stewards rejected his explanation, one remarking with incredulity: “He lost control of the car while travelling at 16kph! That’s something completely unjustifiable.”
The only difference between Schumacher and Hamilton on these occasions was that Schumacher failed to convince the stewards he was telling the truth. So are McLaren actually being punished for the Australian Grand Prix stewards getting their original judgement wrong?
Last year McLaren tried to appeal Hamilton’s penalty in the Belgian Grand Prix. The FIA claimed former permanent steward Tony Scott-Andrews had changed his mind about another incident which McLaren intended to cite as precedent. When McLaren approached Scott-Andrews he informed them the FIA’s point of view was, “grossly inaccurate and misleading”. Who here was not being straight?
I am not making a case for McLaren’s defence. The sacking of Ryan is a clear acceptance by the team that they had discussed what to do behind the safety car at Melbourne, took the wrong decision and, when asked by the stewards, denied what they had done.
But I am suggesting perhaps they are not the only people in F1 who have not been entirely clear about their version of events in the recent past, and not the only ones who have brought F1 into disrepute.
Are Mclaren guilty or innocent? What role did Lewis Hamilton play in all this? What punishment should they receive? Have your say in the comments.
The McLaren appeal date and many other important F1 dates can be found in the F1 Fanatic Calendar for Google.
dmw said on 7th April 2009, 21:19
It is a little surprising that Hamilton is being allowed to use the Nuremburg defense for his part. Usually, you would not want to remove suspicion from a party who has obvoiusly done wrong until his useful cooperation had been secured by threat of a sanction.
For this reason, I believe the preordained result is a crushing fine for McLaren, plus the obvious exclusion from the WCC. Casting Hamilton as a mere employee coerced into misconduct by poor professional advice works to deepen the shadow over the team. Further, the FIA knows that banning the current World Champ would bring a flood of unfortunate press on the sport. And it may result in Hamilton immediately retiring to Switzlerland for the rest of the year. (With two blank white cars leading the races in an unknown team, and the Ferraris posing for still life with smoke on the side of the road, say good bye to ratings.)
Given that the team has little chance of scoring many points this year, a WCC ban would cause DLR to appear in the car. I do know that Dieter Mateschitz knows that a young, famous, attractive, fast driver would sell a lot of sugar water. Of course, in my selfish interest, I want to see Vettel battle Hamilton in equal and very quick machinery.
Gman said on 8th April 2009, 3:14
DLR?
Gman said on 8th April 2009, 3:16
Sorry, just caught on to the acronym. But forget about Pedro- if Lewis either isn’t allowed to race or refuses to race, Ron will have di Resta on his way to Woking before the courtroom clears out in Paris…….
S Hughes said on 8th April 2009, 11:08
Did you see this article by DC? This is what he said: “I saw Lewis after the drivers’ meeting on Friday – before he went in to talk to the press – and he told me what happened.
Having know him since he was a small boy I have no reason to doubt him. My advice to him was simple: “On no account should you say you lied if you were put up to it.” “
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/mclaren/5115006/McLaren-were-stupid-but-theyre-not-cheats.html
He also doesn’t think McLaren have a culture of cheating. So it seems Lewis went by DC’s advice and he still gets slaughtered for it. He really cannot win in this situation. As his lifelong fan I just hope that they don’t get thrown out of the championship, get their car performing, and he wins this year again. That is the only thing that will make all this trauma worth it in the end.
Jonatas said on 7th April 2009, 21:32
I remember reading somewhere about Martin Whitmarsh speaking on behalf of FOTA and how that surely would be cause for some retaliation by the FIA.
In my opinion, Lewis is just as guilty as McLaren and it would be a shame if he was excluded from further punishment if McLaren in fact does receive further punishment for this incident.
I think the whole matter just needs to be left alone. McLaren was disquialified from the Australian GP, as was Lewis. Seems to be fitting punishment for me. Move on…
SYM said on 7th April 2009, 21:54
How can Lewis be guilty as well, when drove a clean race, did not fall off the track, called it write under pressure and complied with his superior, in order to hold on to what he is morally entitled to anyway…. i’m afraid Bernie’s ‘old boys club’ will go down on McLaren like a ton of bricks, again. Its racism by proxy.
Jonatas said on 8th April 2009, 1:45
He drove a masterful race and deserved that 3rd spot once Trulli went off track. Up until the moment when McLaren told him to let Trulli pass. Once he complied, then it was Trulli’s 3rd spot again. No way around it.
During his apology press conference, he said that he was immediately summoned to see the stewards and had no time to think about it. We now know that it wasn’t the case. He sat around for over an hour and had plenty of time to think and conspire about what he would say. And the bottom line is he chose to lie! He lied, and then he sat quietly watching Trulli be handed an unjust penalty! He is an adult and needs to stop being McLaren’s puppet and make his own decisions. There’s no way around it.
todd said on 8th April 2009, 2:40
Yeah, why is lewis not as guilty here.
he has a conscious, he had a discussion with dave ryan about lying to them and during that conversation he could have at any time raised issues, told him no or gone to witmarsh for clarification.
he’s just a guilty, when it comes down to it he lied as well, he sat there and told them a lie. there was no gun to his head, mclaren would not have sacked him for telling the truth.
mclaren doesnt deserve the penalty, dave ryan and hamilton do. mclaren apparently had no knowledge. why punish the team as a whole when it’s dave and hamilton’s conspiracy.
he should be banned for X races and bring in pedro.
f1 wont lose viewers, how big was the schumacher fan club, did f1 die off when he retired? no.
does britan have a new superstar to gush over? yes.
is everyone more interested in brawn vs toyota right now? yes.
S Hughes said on 8th April 2009, 11:10
I agree with you SYM. “All because a black kid had a dream of driving a F1 car!”
Jonatas said on 8th April 2009, 14:34
Todd,
I agree with you in parts. But you can forget that F1 iss a team sport. At least that’s how it’s advertised. Being a team sport, McLaren needs to take responsibility as a team and not single out someone. If they felt Dave Ryan was ultimately responsible, they should’ve dealt with it in a private matter.
I hate to draw comparissons, but look at Ferrari. Domenicali was asked who was responsible for the disastrous decision of putting rain tires in Kimi’s car. Domenicali’s response was that basically it was a team decision and would not name names.
Jason said on 7th April 2009, 21:37
I see nothing positive coming of this further review. For McLaren, for the sport and most importantly, for the fans. It has been blown way out of proportion and it seems that the FIA is only attempting to drive a wedge between the teams and the bond of FOTA. If McLaren gets a huge penalty in the form of a fine, I see Mercedes pulling out of the sport altogether at the end of the year. They are already doing horribly as a manufacturer and with the lack of McLaren’s ability to score any points this year (because a) the car sucks and b) possible exclusion of the team from points) Merc wont be getting anything in return.
Like I said. No good for anyone.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 7th April 2009, 22:03
They’re leading both championships!
Jason said on 7th April 2009, 22:48
I didnt mean in the sport. Obviously one of their customers is doing well, but look at their partner team, McLaren and then of course Force India… By ‘horribly as a manufacturer’ I meant in relation to the world’s economy. Also, just because a team purchases Merc engines doesn’t necessarily mean that they are going to remain involved in the sport. Especially if their partner team continues to have sanctions against them the likes of the ‘Spy-Gate’ fine.
K said on 7th April 2009, 23:20
lol
todd said on 8th April 2009, 2:42
just because it’s their engine, doesn’t mean they are leading the championship.
i highly doubt putting a ferrari or even honda engine in the back of a brawn would make it go any slower. they went with mclaren for ease of fit due to time constraints.
but on the mercedes financial front, they are aparently bleeding $1B a month?
K said on 8th April 2009, 10:57
Daimler is still in profit as is Mercedes, their profits may have fallen significantly but they still make billions. Either way F1 is still a good, cost effective, high exposure form of marketing, so says Mario Theissen. Ferrari customer deals are allegedly very expensive, have often appeared to come with strings attached and usually result in the customer receiving an inferior version of the power plant. Honda don’t make F1 engines. Mercedes have a long history of involvement in the upper echelons of motor sport, their engines currently power the car/team that sits at the top of the F1 standings, because of their customer deals they are actually making more back on their investment than they have for a long time/ever. They could dump McLaren but they won’t, remember they now produce road cars together. However you want to look at it Mercedes ain’t about to quit.
Mickyboy1 said on 7th April 2009, 21:41
I think the FIA has done more to bring this sport into disrepute (from a paying fan’s perspective) than any of the above.
Gman said on 8th April 2009, 3:17
100% agreed on that count, and Max’s re-election won’t help any.
Hugo Bourgeois said on 7th April 2009, 22:05
I agree with Mickyboy1. Surely they shouldn’t make a fuss about it. As was written on this site before: had they just listened to the radio transmissions, they wouldn’t even have needed any explanation by no matter who, and they could have solved the matter without disrepute of anyone in a matter of minutes after the incident. Full stop.
BrawnGPNews said on 7th April 2009, 22:07
Its going to be interesting to see what happens. It seems such a silly thing too, had McLaren told the truth Hamilton would have probably been promoted to 3rd anyway, the worse would have been 4th in Australia.
But I think the FIA does have to set an example and show that lying won’t be tolerated. That said I think this could be done with a fine. I don’t think loss of points is necessary as “it doesn’t make the car go faster” though it could be argued by lying they tried to gain more points.
Will be an interesting story to watch develop
Rob R. said on 7th April 2009, 22:20
While I hate the FIA as much as anyone else here, I’m also sick of the histrionics and hysteria that always comes up whenever Hamilton gets penalised.
Yes FIA are blowing it way out of proportion but McLaren have only got themselves to blame here. Lying about radio calls, when the FIA has access to all the recordings. Very stupid.
And all that for what? One little third place spot, with 16 races still to go. Six points instead of five? Come on. That’s just trying way too hard. They’ve allowed the FIA to get under their skin, and become paranoid.
David said on 7th April 2009, 22:23
McLaren’s punishment could well be:
1. massive fine and exclusion from WCC
2. loss of Hamilton to other team (though some may think he’s more a liability)
3. loss of Mercedes engine and sponsorship
4. loss of Whitmarsh (after Ryan already)
It could also be argued that Dennis’s ‘retirement’ was a consequence of FIA’s punishment in 2007.
All told, complete (self)destruction of the team on its way? It seems obvious that this is more or less some people’s intention within F1, which makes the idiocy of lying so blatantly to the FIA stewards incomprehensible. Of course it’s completely over-the-top, hypocritical and vindictive, given the rule bending, deception and economy with the truth either side of McLaren in the paddock and beyond. But McLaren have preached ethics, done the opposite and been found out. And now Mercedes have a very nice new partner, busy winning races and run by someone who knows how to keep his nose clean…
F1Yankee said on 8th April 2009, 1:18
obviously the brawn-merc relationship is a great deal for both parties, but merc’s relationship with mclaren is far more extensive, including part ownership in the f1 team and/or McLaren Group. speaking of MG, i wouldn’t be surprised if this hurts their prospects of business outside of f1 – racing, aerospace, whatever.
Sasquatsch said on 8th April 2009, 12:54
If we go back to 2005 we see that Honda was excluded for two races after misleading the stewards with the fuel tank. So more than two races penalty for McLaren is too much (inconsistent with earlier punishments)
Dougal said on 8th April 2009, 17:46
@Sasquatsch
Yes. There’s nothing that the FIA hates more than inconsistency in their punishments. I mean, look at McLaren and Renault in 2007.
pSynrg said on 7th April 2009, 22:27
Ah, soon it will all be over (thank fk) as McLaren will no doubt melt from the radiance of the WMSC halo that glows so brightly with virtuous innocence.
I’m so bored of this… Talk about mole hills, please do – it is much more interesting.
Gustavus said on 7th April 2009, 22:29
That’s it! If McLaren will be punished, then it’s time to BOYCOTT F1!!! Why does the FIA hate F1?? They must hate F1, why would they otherwise wanna kill it?? They are not helping F1! They are slowly killing it!! McLaren will most likely survive another big punishment. I demand less politic and more race!!!
todd said on 8th April 2009, 2:45
yes please boycot, the less of you around the better.
Gman said on 8th April 2009, 3:20
Gustavus,
I don’t mean to suggest anything, but when the red cars are winning races, the FIA appears to be much more happy.
I agree that the FIA hate some parties involved in the sport, but certainly not all…..
Toby Thwaites 93 said on 7th April 2009, 22:29
If Dave Ryan was sacked for lieing, so surely should Lewis Hamilton. And i dont care if Dave Ryan told him to. Lewis Hamilton is old enough to take a step back and realise by saying what he did he tried to fool and mislead the stewards into giving him a place that he frankly did not deserve. Lewis Hamilton is a liar and shows traits of a cheater
And in my opinion Hamilton should leave f1 to avoid further shame
Paddy said on 8th April 2009, 11:57
I kinda agree with this. Hamilton should make up his own mind to lie or not. Unless he was just thick. I wonder what would have happened if Kovalinen had been invvolved in this instead of Hamilton? I wonder would Mclaren have acted in the same way. I dont think Hamilton should leave F1 but he did lie. To blame it on a superior doesnt seem character building. To sack Dave Ryan and then not punish Hamilton in any way seems weird to me. But I suppose he is the most visible member of the team. Dave Ryan should have resigned. It would have let Mclaren as a team save a lot more face.
Gustavus said on 7th April 2009, 22:30
That’s it! If McLaren will be punished, then it’s time to BOYCOTT F1!!! Why does the the FIA hate F1?? They must hate F1, why would they otherwise wanna kill it?? They are not helping F1! They are slowly killing it!! McLaren will most likely NOT survive another big punishment. I demand less politic and more race!!!
Arthur954 said on 7th April 2009, 22:34
This is all overblown. What is really disreputable for the sport is to have it governed by Bernie and Mo.
As far as trying to cover up, thats what every football team does in front of all the cameras when the referee makes a call. No big deal. McLaren has not murdered anyone or commited a similar crime.
With all the rules changes by Mo, no wonder teams get mixed up.
CDNF1 said on 7th April 2009, 22:35
I agree, Hamilton should be punished. He is a big boy and should not have lied. Certainly the team would not sack him for telling the truth, he’d be snapped up in an instant!
Make him start last every race this season, then we can see his true talent coming thru the field (if he can!).
S Hughes said on 8th April 2009, 11:16
How nasty and vindictive. Why don’t you suggest he wears a jester’s hat, shackles and a prison number tattooed on his forehead! Cripes!
IDR said on 7th April 2009, 22:46
That’s somewhat incredible, at least for me.
Imagine for a moment:
Augusta’s Master, final round. Tiger woods change his golf ball to the opponent’s one for wining the competition, and after an investigation because a fan’s video, the truth comes to light.
I cannot imagine Tiger saying to the press his behaviour was very regrettable but he was driven by his caddy to do so.
The man who “gave a s***” to McLaren’s principal, disobeying his orders in his first year as F1 driver against a double world champion, is now driven by a 2nd level manager.
Nice try, but this is not sustainable.
McLaren and Lewis Hamilton cheated, period.
On the other hand, I don’t see this action burdens everything. McLaren has to be fined enough as Lewis has to, also.
But I think this action burdens much more on a moral basis. What the rest of the world is going to think about Lewis and McLaren, should be much more important than what FIA should decide on this.
At the end, an organization runned by a person who has been more than 20 years cheating his family, and obtaining personal satisfaction being punished by others and by punishing others… what kind of moral principles could ask for?
FIA is a joke, and all that kind of movements, firing a loyal employee just to agree with FIA not punish Lewis, because the sport needs him…
I personally don’t think FIA should punish McLaren or Lewis Hamilton quite hardly.
Other thing is what I think about Lewis and McLaren, personally…