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	<title>Comments on: FIA says Brawn, Williams and Toyota diffusers are legal &#8211; what happens next?</title>
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	<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/</link>
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		<title>By: David (Brazil)</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-250077</link>
		<dc:creator>David (Brazil)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-250077</guid>
		<description>@Dougie

Cheers; it was a genuine request, though, I wasn&#039;t asking you to back up your point, just wanting to know more. Brawn&#039;s position is fairly clear:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If I&#039;m frank I didn&#039;t say &#039;look we are going to do this diffuser if you don&#039;t accept this rule&#039; because I&#039;m not going to tell people what we&#039;re doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done. I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. [...] For sure there are periods when I am very happy to say what is good for Formula 1 and that is the period a year to 18 months before you start doing a car. What&#039;s the best thing to do?.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Read carefully and Brawn&#039;s admitting that his actions were determined by the difference between what&#039;s best for F1 and what&#039;s best for a particular team. The point is that his position as director of the F1 technical group was obviously to judge what was best for F1 - improving overtaking/F1 as a spectator sport, reducing costs, clarifying rules, whatever - yet he was already anticipating his team interests (understandbly for sure). But the question is whether he fulfilled the first role appropriately. Personally I&#039;m not bothered if he tricked/got one over on his rivals, but it leads me to think (following Brawn&#039;s own rationale) that the double-deck diffuser won&#039;t necessarily be good for F1 - at least eventually, when all the teams use it. Though it is good right now in terms of spicing up competition by skewing the pitch - which is presumably one of the reasons why FIA/MM/BE like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dougie</p>
<p>Cheers; it was a genuine request, though, I wasn&#8217;t asking you to back up your point, just wanting to know more. Brawn&#8217;s position is fairly clear:</p>
<blockquote><p>If I&#8217;m frank I didn&#8217;t say &#8216;look we are going to do this diffuser if you don&#8217;t accept this rule&#8217; because I&#8217;m not going to tell people what we&#8217;re doing, but I explained that I felt that we should have a different set of rules to simplify what needs to be done. I offered them and they were rejected, so my conscience is very clear. [...] For sure there are periods when I am very happy to say what is good for Formula 1 and that is the period a year to 18 months before you start doing a car. What&#8217;s the best thing to do?.</p></blockquote>
<p>Read carefully and Brawn&#8217;s admitting that his actions were determined by the difference between what&#8217;s best for F1 and what&#8217;s best for a particular team. The point is that his position as director of the F1 technical group was obviously to judge what was best for F1 &#8211; improving overtaking/F1 as a spectator sport, reducing costs, clarifying rules, whatever &#8211; yet he was already anticipating his team interests (understandbly for sure). But the question is whether he fulfilled the first role appropriately. Personally I&#8217;m not bothered if he tricked/got one over on his rivals, but it leads me to think (following Brawn&#8217;s own rationale) that the double-deck diffuser won&#8217;t necessarily be good for F1 &#8211; at least eventually, when all the teams use it. Though it is good right now in terms of spicing up competition by skewing the pitch &#8211; which is presumably one of the reasons why FIA/MM/BE like it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dougie</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-250023</link>
		<dc:creator>Dougie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-250023</guid>
		<description>@David, within seconds I&#039;ve found this article that I&#039;d never seen before... am sure I can find loads more to support it, but we both know I don&#039;t need to bother.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.forumula1.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5746&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.forumula1.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5746&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David, within seconds I&#8217;ve found this article that I&#8217;d never seen before&#8230; am sure I can find loads more to support it, but we both know I don&#8217;t need to bother.<br />
<a href="http://www.forumula1.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5746" rel="nofollow">http://www.forumula1.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5746</a></p>
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		<title>By: Sri</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-4/#comment-250011</link>
		<dc:creator>Sri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 20:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-250011</guid>
		<description>Not supposed, a document was indeed found in possession of Mike Coughlan, with detailed engineering specs of the F248. I think this was the model number for the car in that year. Why the other teams didn&#039;t make a noise about the same, is beyond me.

Yes, as someone pointed it out earlier, people move to different companies with information in their heads. Companies try to protect their interests by asking them to not take up work immediately with any competing company. That&#039;s what most companies do. However, no one asks for entire, ahem, design document(s)/ blu-print to a rival companies car, or for that matter, any other product(s)/ service(s).

I found it rather weird that no one else cried foul. They should have had. All companies try to protect their IP&#039;s (over)zealously. They spend considerable amount of time and effort acquiring the same, so it is also understandable.

You would not, ever find someone crying foul against Sir Williams and his team. Think why and you&#039;ll have your answer, as to what McLaren gets wrong every single time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not supposed, a document was indeed found in possession of Mike Coughlan, with detailed engineering specs of the F248. I think this was the model number for the car in that year. Why the other teams didn&#8217;t make a noise about the same, is beyond me.</p>
<p>Yes, as someone pointed it out earlier, people move to different companies with information in their heads. Companies try to protect their interests by asking them to not take up work immediately with any competing company. That&#8217;s what most companies do. However, no one asks for entire, ahem, design document(s)/ blu-print to a rival companies car, or for that matter, any other product(s)/ service(s).</p>
<p>I found it rather weird that no one else cried foul. They should have had. All companies try to protect their IP&#8217;s (over)zealously. They spend considerable amount of time and effort acquiring the same, so it is also understandable.</p>
<p>You would not, ever find someone crying foul against Sir Williams and his team. Think why and you&#8217;ll have your answer, as to what McLaren gets wrong every single time.</p>
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		<title>By: David (Brazil)</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-249970</link>
		<dc:creator>David (Brazil)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 18:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249970</guid>
		<description>Dougie - I&#039;ve tried to track down material on the internet about what was discussed by this working group last year, so far no luck: any links?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dougie &#8211; I&#8217;ve tried to track down material on the internet about what was discussed by this working group last year, so far no luck: any links?</p>
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		<title>By: antonyob</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-249954</link>
		<dc:creator>antonyob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249954</guid>
		<description>Ferrari have come out of diffusergate very badly. They accuse Brawn of supreme arrogance- the man that led their renaissance. They say Charlie Whiting is embarrassed and out of his depth  as hes not an engineer - he was chief mechanic at Brabham. They squeal that the changes will cost too much money, ha! how much is their budget compared to say Williams..anyone bar Mclaren? Their car is a dog, their no 1 driver is disinterested and their lawyers loud mouthed spivs.  

A strong Ferrari is great for F1 but a weak one is more amusing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ferrari have come out of diffusergate very badly. They accuse Brawn of supreme arrogance- the man that led their renaissance. They say Charlie Whiting is embarrassed and out of his depth  as hes not an engineer &#8211; he was chief mechanic at Brabham. They squeal that the changes will cost too much money, ha! how much is their budget compared to say Williams..anyone bar Mclaren? Their car is a dog, their no 1 driver is disinterested and their lawyers loud mouthed spivs.  </p>
<p>A strong Ferrari is great for F1 but a weak one is more amusing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dougie</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-249928</link>
		<dc:creator>Dougie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 14:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249928</guid>
		<description>Yeah, its the same Ross Brawn that as director of FOTA’s technical working group offered to close a lot of loopholes and clean up the FIA regulations. It was this offer to circumvent this exact situation we find ourselves in now, that Ross Brawn laid on the table last year, that the teams (now throwing their toys out the pram because Ross did not stick to the &quot;spirit of the rules&quot;) rejected. Probably because they all greedily saw an opportunity to get one up on their rivals.

Who has the last laugh now? Enjoy Ross, you got one over the establishment, and I for one applaud you for that big time!!

Nice one!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, its the same Ross Brawn that as director of FOTA’s technical working group offered to close a lot of loopholes and clean up the FIA regulations. It was this offer to circumvent this exact situation we find ourselves in now, that Ross Brawn laid on the table last year, that the teams (now throwing their toys out the pram because Ross did not stick to the &#8220;spirit of the rules&#8221;) rejected. Probably because they all greedily saw an opportunity to get one up on their rivals.</p>
<p>Who has the last laugh now? Enjoy Ross, you got one over the establishment, and I for one applaud you for that big time!!</p>
<p>Nice one!</p>
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		<title>By: David (Brazil)</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-249902</link>
		<dc:creator>David (Brazil)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249902</guid>
		<description>I should point out this was the observation made by Celso Itiberê, a Brazilian F1 journalist, in today&#039;s Globo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should point out this was the observation made by Celso Itiberê, a Brazilian F1 journalist, in today&#8217;s Globo.</p>
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		<title>By: David (Brazil)</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-249901</link>
		<dc:creator>David (Brazil)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 13:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249901</guid>
		<description>A point I can&#039;t find made anywhere: isn&#039;t there something a bit dubious about Ross Brawn being director of FOTA&#039;s technical working group, which drew up specs for reducing aerodynamics/downforce for F1 this season, then being the guy who &#039;circumvents&#039; these specs? 

Apologies if I&#039;ve got that wrong. Kind of seems odd that someone in charge of drafting the technical rules then - in a stroke of brilliance - immediately knows how he&#039;s going to bend them...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A point I can&#8217;t find made anywhere: isn&#8217;t there something a bit dubious about Ross Brawn being director of FOTA&#8217;s technical working group, which drew up specs for reducing aerodynamics/downforce for F1 this season, then being the guy who &#8216;circumvents&#8217; these specs? </p>
<p>Apologies if I&#8217;ve got that wrong. Kind of seems odd that someone in charge of drafting the technical rules then &#8211; in a stroke of brilliance &#8211; immediately knows how he&#8217;s going to bend them&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mf</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-2/#comment-249834</link>
		<dc:creator>mf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249834</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re a very serious young man aren&#039;t you Keith..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re a very serious young man aren&#8217;t you Keith..</p>
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		<title>By: Prisoner Monkeys</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/04/15/fia-says-brawn-williams-and-toyota-diffuers-are-legal-but-what-happens-next/comment-page-5/#comment-249832</link>
		<dc:creator>Prisoner Monkeys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 09:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=20081#comment-249832</guid>
		<description>Okay, so Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault and co. have to spend millions of dollars redeveloping their cars. What&#039;s the alternative?

Brawn have been severely downsized following Honda&#039;s withdrawal; despite their successes, they were forced to offer redundancy payouts to a lot of their staff.

Williams are losing sponsors left, right and centre. Lenovo have withdrawn, while Hamley&#039;s and My Diamonds followed suit after 2008. RBS is gone courtesy of the recession. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if the team is near bankrupt.

Toyota have been constantly under the threat of being withdrawn by the Powers That Be in Tokyo unless they start to perform.

In short, banning the diffusers would jeopardise THREE entire teams. Richard Branson&#039;s money can&#039;t keep Brawn afloat forever. Frank Williams needs sponsors, and soon; to get that, they need results and they need them now. If Toyota loses is newly-found competitiveness, the plug will be pulled. If just ONE team is out, the terms of the Concorde Agreement are violated, though there may be provisions made for the remainder of the season. If all three were to go, Formula One might not recover. Suggesting that Ferrari, Red Bull and Renault are hard done-by because they&#039;ll have to fork out a little bit extra - and as a part of their yearly budget undoubtedly accomodates upgrading the car, they&#039;re hardly going to be pinching pennies - is like Aaron Spelling&#039;s wife complaining tat she was forced to downgrade from an eighty-million dollar home to a twenty-million dollar one. Ferrari, Red Bull and Renault can AFFORD to spend a little extra in redesigning their cars. The simple fact is that Brawn, Williams and Toyota CAN&#039;T. Not without jeopardising the entire future of Formula One. You seem to have forgotten that while Max wants costs to come down, the teams currently running diffusers would have had to spend money - money they would be hard-pressed to come up with - to redesign their cars. It wouldn&#039;t have been as much as Ferrari, Red Bull and Renult will have to spend, but nor is it a case of taking one diffuser out and sticking another one in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, so Ferrari, Red Bull, Renault and co. have to spend millions of dollars redeveloping their cars. What&#8217;s the alternative?</p>
<p>Brawn have been severely downsized following Honda&#8217;s withdrawal; despite their successes, they were forced to offer redundancy payouts to a lot of their staff.</p>
<p>Williams are losing sponsors left, right and centre. Lenovo have withdrawn, while Hamley&#8217;s and My Diamonds followed suit after 2008. RBS is gone courtesy of the recession. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if the team is near bankrupt.</p>
<p>Toyota have been constantly under the threat of being withdrawn by the Powers That Be in Tokyo unless they start to perform.</p>
<p>In short, banning the diffusers would jeopardise THREE entire teams. Richard Branson&#8217;s money can&#8217;t keep Brawn afloat forever. Frank Williams needs sponsors, and soon; to get that, they need results and they need them now. If Toyota loses is newly-found competitiveness, the plug will be pulled. If just ONE team is out, the terms of the Concorde Agreement are violated, though there may be provisions made for the remainder of the season. If all three were to go, Formula One might not recover. Suggesting that Ferrari, Red Bull and Renault are hard done-by because they&#8217;ll have to fork out a little bit extra &#8211; and as a part of their yearly budget undoubtedly accomodates upgrading the car, they&#8217;re hardly going to be pinching pennies &#8211; is like Aaron Spelling&#8217;s wife complaining tat she was forced to downgrade from an eighty-million dollar home to a twenty-million dollar one. Ferrari, Red Bull and Renault can AFFORD to spend a little extra in redesigning their cars. The simple fact is that Brawn, Williams and Toyota CAN&#8217;T. Not without jeopardising the entire future of Formula One. You seem to have forgotten that while Max wants costs to come down, the teams currently running diffusers would have had to spend money &#8211; money they would be hard-pressed to come up with &#8211; to redesign their cars. It wouldn&#8217;t have been as much as Ferrari, Red Bull and Renult will have to spend, but nor is it a case of taking one diffuser out and sticking another one in.</p>
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