The FIA must not let its row with Ferrari become a split that would destroy F1
Ferrari are threatening to leave F1 in 2010 - and so are many other teams
The Ferrari board confirmed today it will pull its team out of F1 if the FIA does not back down on its controversial plans for the 2010 rules.
Toyota and Red Bull/Toro Rosso have already voiced the same objections and several F1 news sites are indicating that Mercedes, Renault and BMW are prepared to do the same.
Once again, F1 is threatened by the prospect of a split. Might it ever come to that – or is this just the sports’ governing body and the teams playing hard ball?
The FIA’s plan to introduce advantageous technical rules for budget capped teams is at the heart of the matter.
Ferrari’s statement makes reference to its displeasure at how the FIA has handled the regulations talks, which seems a thinly-veiled criticism of Max Mosley’s governance with the FIA president elections five months away.
The importance of Ferrari
It is hard to believe Mosley would seriously be happy with driving Ferrari away.
At the same meeting where the budget cap was announced the FIA confirmed it would ban in-race refuelling from 2010. The teams had lobbied hard for this because of the cost of transporting 20 refuelling rigs around the world.
Mosley stood his ground at first, insisting that refuelling was a vital part of ‘The Show’. If he can’t see that, for a large number of fans, Ferrari are a much more important part of ‘The Show’, then he shouldn’t be running F1.
One man who does understand how important Ferrari are is Bernie Ecclestone. He’s been conspicuously trying to build bridges between the teams and the FIA since last week when Mosley uttered those infamous – and patently incorrect – words that F1 would not suffer without Ferrari.
Similarly, Ecclestone understands the importance of keeping the major car manufacturers in F1. Not only do they bring a substantial amount of money into Formula 1, but there are suggestions some of his deals with broadcasting companies are contingent upon teams like Ferrari appearing at the races.
Can budget capping work?
The FIA’s Tony Purnell has admitted that £30m (the original proposed budget limit) is the minimum they calculate an F1 team can be run for. A sensible solution to get to that limit would involve the teams gradually cutting their expenditure from one year to the next.
Instead Mosley has chosen the route of maximum antagonism – demanding teams slash their budgets by 90% overnight to hit a £40m limit (excluding marketing fees and driver salaries).
But all that pre-supposes that budget capping is feasible to begin with.
The FIA cannot demand that all F1 teams adhere to a budget cap as it cannot legally assume the right to inspect their finances. That’s why it has adopted the ‘two-tier’ solution – offering teams that voluntarily choose the budget cap massive performance advantages.
But the teams were never going to accept such an obvious manipulation of the rules without a fight.
The danger of a split
Some fans have suggested they would like to see a FOTA-led split in F1, with the car manufacturers forming their own series.
They ignore the lessons of history at their peril. Such a split destroyed the open-wheel racing scene in America. The once strong Indy Car championship has been relegated to the status of a minor national championship in America since its 1995 division.
A split in F1 would not only be a tragedy for the sport, but the whole of motor racing. There are no other major international motor racing championships that are a fraction as popular. The fans, the teams, the FIA, the money men – we would all be losers in this scenario.
Instead of petitioning for a split (which rather smacks of turkeys voting for Christmas) fans should be campaigning for an outbreak of common sense in the upper echelons of the sport.
The only sensible way to resolve this is for Luca di Montezemolo, as head of FOTA, to hammer out an agreement with Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone. I do not believe that Ecclestone and Mosley are any more likely to let Ferrari go now than they were four years ago, when they handed over $100m to keep them in the sport until 2012 (Where was Mosley’s “we don’t need Ferrari” sentiment then?)
FOTA need to get their act together and find a candidate for the October FIA election who will work with them, not against them. It is time F1 were governed responsibly without every little disagreement making international headlines and destroying the sport’s credibility.
F1 will not do without Ferrari.
But
It would do nicely without Mosley.
Yep, and without Bernie…
It would be interesting to see if it’s possible for F1 to live without Ferrari. however it would help immensely if Mosley was replaced soon.
I have a feeling that if Todt were to become FIA president, things would run very smoothly, we have to remember that as much as he is a Ferrari man, he is a dedicated professional, that has excelled in every job he has done so far.
however, if Ferrari does end up splitting and splintering into FIA GT, and other series they will still be under FIA authority most possibly, and they will always clash with FIA at some point.
In my case i would keep watching f1, because at the end it will make the most sense even without the reds…
p.s: I’ve been a dedicated Ferrari fan since the 1995 season… (after Senna died actually)but firstly I’m an F1 fan…
Hear, hear.
LMAO @ Clive hahaha
think its time to get rid of mosley and maybe even Bernie who is just stealing money from the sport
From how i understand it Bernie took all of his money out when he sold out to CVC (he now gets paid a wage – all be it a very hansom one!!!!)
However i do agree that CVC are stealing money and unfortantly that is not going to change as they have borrowed so much money against F1 as an asset there hands are tied. Also as a side note if CVC dont get paid so much money either due to less revenues from circuits or else then F1 could effectivly be repossed like any asset by the banks one of which is RBS and sold to the highest bidder (i actually think that this is not such a remote a suggestion as it seems) as CVC has borrowed way to much since 1999-2007 CVC bought 52 companies all of which they borrowed almost 100% of the sale price.
And just to show these are not small companies these are only the UK companies that CVC own;
– Acromas (the AA and Saga)
– Debenhams
– Gartland Whalley and Barker (Huge Devloper)
– Hozelock
– IG Group (Spread Betting Firm)
– PC Cox Limited (Engineering Firm)
– Oh and F1!!!!!
Lets remember these are only the UK companies now all of these companies are suffering from CVC massive debt if you were CVC and had to let one go which one would you let fail – my bet would be on F1
So in conclusion to my very long winded post (i am sorry)
– CVC have to keep taking too much money out of F1 to pay debt (milking F1 to 120%)
– CVC may have to sell F1 if the money crisis goes on to long.
If only F1 was owned by the teams and not by CVC they could take a 85% stake of the Profit instead of 50% and then they could have a 100million budget of which 60million could easily come from TV revenue. But if that was the case Bernie would not be a billionare.
I agree with Chris here, and he has outlined it beautifully, I would add that had the teams been a little more prudent over the last decade, and the FIA acted sooner, then this particular episode would be a storm in a teacup, so it,s no good blaming individuals as they are only the figureheads. My personal thought is that F1 can live on without Ferrari, or the other manufacturers, in what form I’m not sure, but the infrastructure that brings it to the world is well sorted, and sure, the audiences may dwindle, should the big names withdraw, but the manufacturers are always on the verge of pulling out, albeit not Ferrari. New names would emerge, and providing the show was still as strong maybe the audience could be built back up. One thought would be: Find a really good Chinese driver, in a Chinese backed car, there’s half the audience already….
F&*K the FIA F&*K Mosley. We definitely need some restructuring at the top of that food chain. We the fans should form a petition to oust Max and his tyranny once and for all.
Here you go lets get this started!
http://www.petitiononline.com/FIAMaxM/petition.html
this petition is dated from 05 and dosen’t even have 200 signatures lol
its very old!!!so many unpleasant events have occured after 2005. spygate,spankgate,chichanegate,diffusergate,capgate. are these online petitions are of any worth? its just a waste of server space. i’ll bemax will continue to destroy f1 as he likes. he’ll be even more upset after his son’s death. all that anger will show on the sport. max mosley reminds me of a very well know dictator. that dictator wanted to rule the world,just like how mosley expects the teams to bow down to his demands. this budget cap thing is pure blackmailing by mosley. i’m really astonished to know that he has not even spared ferrari!! it is because of the teams like ferrari,mclaren,williams the sport is so famous.he’s shooting himself in the feet. please max get back to your senses. if he continues in the same manner,it’ll not be long before he ends up at the National Institute of Mental Health and Neuro Sciences hospital.
Surely Teams with big budgets spend money with countless other businesses, ultimately providing work for thousands of people worldwide.
Cap their budgets to £40 million and the cost cutting will surly result in businesses currently involved in F1 loosing out?
Let them spend, and let the sport live!
I am not a Ferrari fan by any measure, but I agree with Keith and many of you that it is essential for Ferrari to be an active and healthy participant in the championship. Many aspects of the sport are so strongly connected to Ferrari that their loss as a participating constructor is perhaps the one that absolutely cannot be allowed to happen.
I agree with Max that cost-cutting has to be accomplished, but the gradual step-down approach is indeed the best idea. It’s very difficult for teams that spend big money to stop spending it, and I’m sure a reasonable step-down approach could be worked out if some common-sense logic was applied.
Lastly, the point about the split destroying the IndyCar series is absolutely correct. The new version is better than the two separate series, but is nowhere near the level it was before the split.
I would love to see Ron Dennis stand for the FIA election, the look on Moselys face alone would be priceless.
Nooooo…..Maquiavelo!!!!!
Dignified men stay away from FIA.
Perhaps if we had budget capping we would not have lost Jordan, Minardi, Arrows, Tyrell, Lotus, Ligier/Prost, Marcdh, Super Aguri etc?
Perhaps but in a sense I think that asks a more interesting question – why have the FIA waited so long to act?
F1 entry numbers have been 22 or lower since 1995 (with one exception – see hre F1 season driver entries, 1980-2009). Yet the FIA persisted for years with its $48m bond for new teams, stopping them from entering. It allowed Cosworth to be priced out of F1 engine supplies only four years ago, and is now trying to bring them back.
Low team numbers has been a problem for over a decade – Mosley has for whatever reason chosen to ignore it until now.
I agree with you guys, and I believe the tipping point was Honda’s exit from the sport last year. Until that point, I think there were many people who always believed there would be big companies with plenty of cash lining up to enter the sport. When one of those apparently indestructible entries went under, the panic alarms started sounding….
Keith Collantine
Why have they been a problem?
The fewer cars you have in a race the less entertaining it is – and F1’s been below its upper limit on entries (26/24 at different times) for well over a decade.
Then you have the vulnerability issue – the fewer teams you have, the more of a concern it is if one pulls out. Hence the very real fears this winter that Honda’s pull-out would leave F1 with only 18 competitors.
I think that’s misguided belief if you’ll excuse me for saying so, it doesn’t take into account the relative competitiveness of the cars or drivers, the technological prowess of the cars, the nature of the circuits, the standard of television coverage or what people actually find entertaining.
Would say IndyCar is more entertaining than F1 because it has more competitors?
Phil – that would be fantastic actually! I still like the idea of JYS, unfortunately the Fred Goodwin stuff has made him look a little foolish…. Actually I hear he’s out of a job….
What about Brundle? Or DC? Or even the Cobbler?
I wouldn’t mind seeing Ferrari out of F1. Most of their fans are glory hunters anyway.
In a few years time, someone will be on top and it will be Ferrari who?
I am not a Ferrari fan by any means but I do support them because I support Massa and any Brazilian driver in fact, Rubens and (swallow) Pique Jr. But I don’t think that Ferrari leaving is good for anyone. That’s like NASCAR without Chevy, it’s just not right. Even thought I don’t even watch NASCAR, I still know that Chevy plays a huge part in that sport.
But it won’t be a split if all teams go away!
It would be just a get away from the FIA and Mosley.
At the moment it looks like seven would leave and three would stay (Williams, Brawn and Force India).
I can’t say I’d miss Ferrari, or that I think they make F1. But I could say the same about Moseley
Actually, if we want a clown to head the FIA, I think Murry Walker would be ideal
Oh dear did the little Ferrari start losing, does it think it can stamp its little feet and get its own way…..ah wont it be able to buy its way out of incompetence….ah bless.
F1 does not depend on Ferrari and McLaren winning.
F1 survived the loss of BRM (who?), Cooper, Vanwall, Maseratti, Auto Union, Alfa Romeo or even the holy of holy Lotus.
Of course they wont leave F1 its posturing, they need F1 to sell their kit cars to rich people.
Oh yes and all the other Moyletra beat me to……he make a brilliant point I think. The huge sums Ferrari spent have ruined the integrity of the sport.
I think that’s nonsense – Ferrari aren’t even the biggest spenders: Toyota has $445.6m F1 budget.
There has never previously been a constraint on what teams could spend, so why should they have limited it before hand? Unless they wanted to lose, which is hardly the ethos of Formula 1, is it?
Indeed Keith, we could point to Toyota’s mega-contract with Ralf as perhaps the biggest waste of money in F1 history- sorry Clare
What about the Mike Gascoigne mega contract that all ended rather hillariously.
I agree F1 does not depend on Ferrari and McLaren winning.
But I think it does depend on them being there, half the fun at the moment is the fact they are both being beaten (despite being a Kimi fan).
I’m not a glory supporter, I’m not even a Ferrari supporter as far as I’m concerned they are dirty cheaters (well they were when they had Ross Brawn to take the rules to their limits and win an argument when brought up on it by the FIA) but I’ve followed my driver from Sauber/McLaren and now to the red team.
If the FIA want to keep pleasing all the casual fans out there, then allowing the majority of the big names to leave will ruin the sport.
Well, F1 has lived another life cycle, and is getting ready to start a new one. Like when Ballestre was ousted.
Ron Dennis has moved on, Jean Todt has moved on, to say nothing of Eddie Jordan, Jackie Stewart and many others of that generation. It’s time for Bernie&Max to move on as well.
F1 can’t really be run by people who should have been safely retired years ago. New blood is needed to keep it vigorous!
Well I wonder what the real agendae are (I think the plural is agendae!).
Is FOTA including Ferrari deliberately playing hardball at this stage in order to put pressure on Mosley to relax the limit a bit, maybe delay it for another season. Or is the FOTA threat “You agree to retire Max, and we will sign up to race next year”?
Or maybe it’s a real money-based threat. Toyota, Mercedes Benz and FIAT are all losing money, so maybe they are all looking for a face-saving way of exiting the sport – something like “We cannot work with the budget cap, or Max or Bernie, so wer’re leaving” rather than “We can longer afford it”.
Is Max knocking down the FOTA objections one by one, like a good salesman. Is he going to close the price like this – “So you agree that some kind of cap is a good idea?”
“Yes Max.”
“But £60m is too low?”
“Yes Max.”
“But otherwise you’d go for it?”
“Yes Max”
“So what would you accept? £100m”
“Maybe £120m we could do, Max”
“£120 it is gentlemen! Sign here.”
And then next season, the cap goes down to £90m.
‘Agenda’ is the plural – ‘agendum’ is the singular. So each person may have an agendum or multiple agenda.
I wish Max would do the decent thing and stick with his agreement not to stand again, but he’s not very familiar with the concept of decency is he?
If it was money related then they would all be chomping at the bit to sign up.
Totally agree!
You say agenda and I say agendas….
@ HounslowBusGarage LynnD
Agenda is latin for ‘the things that must be done’
at some point someone thought of writing ‘these’ down in a book, and then to order them by date, like a calendar. They still kept to calling it ‘the agenda’ in English, until the word had become synonymous with the book.
Nowadays, english dictionaries will list agenda as a singular word, and agendas as its plural form. The english langauge contains an enormous vocabulary, but ‘agendum’ is no part of it and could therefore only be used when indicating that it is an unintegrated loan word. So people may have an ‘agendum’ or multiple ‘agenda’, which they may wish to write down in their agendas.
Since the people involved in this powerbrokering game each have a different series of interests to consider, they are said each to ‘have a different/separate agenda’, nad when one person appears not to defend his proper interests, one may suspect he has ‘more than one agenda’.
Agendae is also correct in Latin, but it means either ‘from the female (thing) that must be done/processed’, ‘for/to the female (thing) that must be done/processed’ or ‘the female(-s/ things) that must be done/processed)’. None of these is applicable since one speaks of things that must be done in general, the gender of which is irrelevant, hence the neutral form.
writing or saying agendae is probably one of the worst expressions of pseudo-intellect, because it is incorrect in both english and latin.
lmao Bas that has to be the best post I’ve read today on any message board on any site. Hilarious! Normally I despise posts by grammar Nazi’s but I think a lecture in etymology falls firmly outside such realms, very interesting and very funny.
I’ve been advocating a split for a while now. I cannot see how F1 can continue while Mosley who seems to really think he is bigger than the teams and fans, is in charge. I agree with Keith that it would be tragic, but how can you drum sense into someone like Mosley? If you could, Ferrari wouldn’t be doing what they are doing now. They realise it just could be a hopeless case. Mosley needs to go because his intransigence is ruining F1. I’m not a Ferrari fan, but it isn’t just Ferrari who isn’t happy – it seems that all the teams, the drivers and the fans aren’t happy with a 2 tier system either. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport and although we are in a recession, cutting back on staff and implementing rule changes every year thus spending more money, is certainly not helping the economy or the reputation of F1. I say the idiots who voted Mosley in again after his sordid scandal should be hanging their heads in shame. There was a real opportunity there to sweep out the rubbish. Maybe just maybe a breakaway series might work if all the teams were involved. I don’t know but it can’t be worse than this circus show.
Keith Collantine: If there is no budget cap there will be no F1 – its simple. One maybe two big corporations slugging it out with no one watching.
Its no answer to say there has never been a budget cap before – there has never been global financing on this scale before. Why did the FIA wait so long – they were getting off on the big money like everyone else.
Well all of us are talking about costs, when the main issue are REVENUES.
As far as I know, the biggest part of the total revenues are managed by FOM, not by FIA.
Max Mosley is acting as “the bad cope”. Is Bernie who should negociate with FOTA a new Concorde Agreement, he (Bernie) is representing CVC interests.
Meanwhile, all of us (FANS) are quite busy talking about costs, technical regulations…
Good point – it’s two sides of the same coin, really, if the teams were getting more money then it stands to reason the cap could be higher. When the FIA announced the £40m it had been increased by £10m, but suddenly Ecclestone was offering the teams an extra £10m, so arguably there was no material difference.
Without those old teams like Ferrari, McLaren and Williams F1 would begin falling apart. Especially if they were to break away, take other teams with them, and Launch another elite motorsport series such as GP1 or something like that. Hell, Ron Dennis and Jean Todt could run it!
I would say that Formula One could stand the loss of a team like Ferrari, it would just take a few years for the sport to get used to it. Formula One is bigger than any one team, and should not be held to ransom by it.
However at a time like this i do not think F1 should lose one of it’s biggest assets. I stopped being a Ferrari F1 team admirer the day Schumacher joined them because he had already started to ruin F1 when he was at Benneton.
As for the fans wishing for FOTA to go it alone and make a new series, it is really just asking for the removal of the two elements causing the biggest upset to formula one in recent years (however much you may think Bernie has done for the sport in the past).For one thing, if all teams agreed to a split from F1 then it would not be a split as was the case with indy car. It would mean the same sport we have now with the same teams and more perhaps. We would just have the sport we love run, hopefully, with better rules and better management, with a fairer share of the money generated from and for the sport and the teams and the tracks and the fans.
It would be wrong to say that a different series for all the teams would be bad. But i do think that what the fans really want is to get rid of Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone as they are seen to be the ones responsible for the downturn in the quality of F1 these days.
All these rules changes year in and year out just undermine the soul of the sport.
What is needed is a level headed and clear approach to running F1 for the future. Some one needs to be in charge of FIA who can be seen to run the sport in a fair way.
In the end what if F1 without it’s fan base if they all leave because none of the fan’s teams are there to support?
None of the manufacturer’s have said the will leave due to the huge cost’s involved in the sport.These statements are only coming from MAX.The lose of FERRARI would be the largest sporting story ever!People must realise that even if the don’t like ferrari they have the largest fan base of any team in the world.The TV companies know this and the track owners know this MAX & BERNIE wouldn’t have much fun selling their product without the largest draw card on the sideline’s.
Indeed. The whole Abu Dhabi event is shaped around Ferrari for example.
yay, we’re going to have US GP 2005 all year round!!
I can see F1 Living with out Ferrari or many of the other big names if need be. There are others out there who will be waiting in the back to replace them. I am for a budget but not a two tier system. I think the FIA and the Teams should be talking so this issue could be resolved. I see two things that can kill F1 and that is a split and then reducing F1 to a Spec series (we have pleanty of them and notice how many are on the TV).
What we have today in F1 is a complete turmoil of rules which may be applied for some but not for all. I thought that we will see green initiatives such as KERS – Surprise the Brown outfit does not even consider it and are winning. Double diffuser – Brown starts winning and FIA approves not to loose face. I have been saying since the start of the season this is by far the worst season yet. As things stand today there is no direction in F1.
I wouldn’t mind a split the way things are going. It’s time the teams took things into their own hands and came up with a real racing series, where the main focus is the racing, not bickering.
And btw, I seriously doubt that a petition, however many signatures on it, would make Mosley step down. I think he’s too powerful for a document like that to touch
.
@ LynnD
Thank you, my education is now complete!
Didn’t he say that F1 could survive without Ferrari. I don’t think he ever claimed they wouldn’t suffer?
Either way, this could be a dangerous situation. The mad dictator is not going to back down methinks – and neither will FOTA.
I think many people who read this site are dedicated F1 fans and would still watch F1 without Ferrari. But among casual fans (and, let’s face it, there’s a lot more of them than us) it would be a huge blow to F1’s reputation.
Yes Keith i do agree with you.
Max Mosley does not seem to care about F1’s reputation though.
Keith,
I agree with you on the reputation damage, and lets face it, F1 has suffered in reputation in many forms.
I agree to an extent, but I still think a large part of what makes F1 so attractive is its history and the perspective gleaned from this.
Despite not being a huge Ferrari fan, I think having them on the grid rather than a Prodrive for example adds a certain kudos.
screw ferrari they are a bunch of cry babys, boooo hoooo were not as fast as brawn and boooo hooooo it’s unfair for us being ferrari we have a huge pull with stupid bernie and not to mention a hugggggggeeee money advantage over the other teams. but yet they still have had there asses whipped up and down the track so far this season by a team that was a write off for honda just 7 months ago. it’s finally nice to see the tables turned on ferrari it’s also funny to see that without unfairly the best car under them ferrari’s 2 drives have proven themselfs to be jokes and they have as much a reason as piquiet to have there driver card pulled. kimi is just a complete joke he used to be sorta fast key word “used” to be but it seems that 10 laps into a race he just gives up or the car breaks lol. Massa is just a spinning top as far as control and if not that he can’t stop making stupid mistakes. screw ferrari hooe there gone soon. GO BRAWN AND JENSON FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP LONG LIVE HONDA!!!!
You need to learn to write properly.
I agree with your post above Kieth, but that is assuming that everything would carry on unchanged. I don’t think Ferrari would just walk away from what made their company and sit back while F1 carried on as normal. I think that the changes to the sports fundamental principle if Ferrari (and the others) leave and some silly 2-tier system is implemented would be why us dedicated fans might start to lose interest. Just like you said, this is why I lost interest in Indy Cars (I’m in the States).
Also, I personally like to see the big names and the small names in F1. A series full of small names would not be F1.
@Jason, did you read Vettels comments about how perfectly Massa drove in front of him? I don’t think Massa and Kimi are the issue at Ferrari.
This is just playing hard ball negotiations. Offering their worst to spook the competition.
The comparison with IndyCar is interesting, but some would point out Indy isn’t a patch on the global business that F1 is, what with top teams investing £300m a year and a global audience of 580 million unique viewers.
OK, so they are both leading open-wheeled series but perhaps some caution is needed comparing the two.
If there’s a series including the current names (teams and drivers), racing cars which look the same at most of the current circuits, who cares what it’s called?
We’ll still be as fanatical about it, casual fans will note that it’s not called F1 but they just want entertainment before the Eastenders omnibus, and Keith will have to register http://www.GPWCfanatic.co.uk!
But what if there’s still an FIA Formula 1? Would you bother to watch USGPE, Lola and a few of the GP2 teams who’ve made the step up? Even though it’s technically the ‘real’ F1? Didn’t think so.
We’d watch Ferrari, McLaren, BMW et al in the new series.
Shame it won’t happen though.
You may be right but the damage to the F1 vs “f1a” could be on par with IRL vs ChampCar Fans. The fight and then maybee a come together again. IRL is in to it second unified status and is still a shadow of what it once was. I for one dont want to see this. I want to see F1 continue and prosper.
And today that comparison would be correct – but wind the clock back 16 years to when IndyCar was still unified, it had Mansell, Fittipaldi and (Mario) Andretti, and F1 was nicking ideas off it (safety cars, refuelling, even considering oval races) and things looked very different.
Ferrari is acting like a big Prima Dona.
Or… have they already figured out they cant win this year so they will start designing their 2011 car now and then after taking off a year they will dominate, ala Brawn?
Either way, I say to them don’t let the doorknob hit ya in the ass!
Ferrari can’t leave….where will Alonso go!!…Maybe he can move to the new USGP team and give me something to cheer about.
Max Mosley get your ***king *ss out of the FIA.
I`m paying cable to watch F1 and soccer. I going to miss
my favorite team if they go.
A formula 1 team can budget themselves. They won’t spend more than they can afford to. Formula 1 is supposed to be the best of the best. If you can’t afford to be there then you shouldn’t be there. Its that simple.
A team will not spend more than they can afford. Let them adjust themselves to the economy instead of imposing things upon them.
Rule changes and fairness is one thing, but FIA should stay out of each teams operations.
Brian, the main issue is that some can afford more than others. In this case, Ferrari can afford lots more than any new team entering F1. That’s why it makes sense that a budget cap option be looked at.
The issue here isn’t the actual regulation per se; the issue is how that regulation was created. It’s about who has the power when creating these regs – and that’s a heck of a lot more complicated to resolve.
Of course they can – but if they can’t afford enough to be competitive, they will leave.
FIA seems create two tier F1 and finally there will be 2 F1 Team should split. F1 Primer team with no limit budget and easy regulation and F1-B with budget limit and tight regulation. They should not race together. So the fans happy 2 F1 races – every week race.
Its not about Ferrari leaving…last news says that only williams and force india are following Mosley. Even Beawn is going with FOTA. Mercedes is trying push Force India to stay togetjer with other teams with FOTa so what would be left in 2010 F1 serious….Williams.
If teams go and make their own serious world is full of race track who would be happy to let new series racing there…include Monaco. Monaco is only race track in F1 calende3r which dont have contract with Bernie.
So we dont need talk about F1 without Ferrari, we need talk about F1 without most of teams lol.
maybe thats what Mosley want. He wants power more than anything else. He really dont care who is driving as long as they are under his thymb. All teams out and new small private teams in and Mosley would be happy man.
Teams have time till end of this month to sign in to next season. Bernie, Mosley and FOTA will have meating soon.
Maybe soon we will have new F1 series where is all teams exlude williams and then we have other where is Williams and a lot of small private teams…
Next week will be intresting.
BMW, Toyota, Red Bull/Toro Rosso have all said if the rules don’t change they will not be taking part in F1 next year. it’s not just Ferrari.
And I believe Mercedes are “considering their future” in F1.
Also I believe it wouldn’t take much for Renault to say bye bye.
All because of one individual.
The more troublesome fans amongst us might dare to suggest that F1 suffered as a sport when Ferrari were at their most dominant years ago.
Its a valid point, considering the championship as a spectacle, especially in 2002 and 2004, was about as interesting as a long weekend at Bognor Regis in February.
On a serious note, this latest postering is a means for the teams to be heard. No single team in motorsports carries as much weight as Ferrari, no team is more high profile, and no team are Ecclestone and Mosley as scared to lose.
The other teams, in many ways, are expendable to the powers at be. As we saw with Honda, things progress and change quickly, but Ferrari are different. They have been the pacesetters, record breakers for so long, the sport would be pointless without them.
All the other teams want to race, and beat Ferrari. Every driver, in his heart of hearts, wants to race a Ferrari and at some stage, drive one.
What we have here is a sport in transition. It has to or it will die on its feet. It is only natural for the big powers of Ferrari and McLaren to want to keep the advantage they have had over the years, to not give up their power and prestige. They are fearfull that teams such as Brawn Gp and Red Bull may not just be 2009’s championship runners, but the pacesetters for the next ten years.
In many ways, the Ferrari of the future. The only way they can respond, is to threaten to walk away in defiance.
Hmmmm…Ferrari didn’t win a WCC from 1965-1974(10 years), again there were no WCC wins between 1984-1998(15 years). Since the constructor’s award was started in 1958 Ferrari have won it 15 times in 50 years. I guess my point is…Ferrari are winners because they have always found a way to stay in F1.
Keith made the excellent observation regarding the Indy car split. Tony George in his infinite wisdom pretty much destroyed open wheel racing in the US and turned the Indy 500 into a spec racer series. I haven’t watched it since the split. I feel that Max is on a similar path as George.
F1 is unique in the world, and Ferrari is a big part of it’s history. If Max thinks fans turn on their TV’s to see Force India…well…
Oh, just on CNN…Ferrari threatens to pull out of F1 over budget caps that would umm…level the playing field…leave a smaller carbon foot print etc…
I think I just vomited a little in my mouth…
I think that for this sad attempt at drama to be settled properly and to get F1 back where it belongs, Both Bernie and Max have to go. The more they try to make the show better thru changing of rules the worse things are. They should have gotten rid of Max last year but didnt. Ever since his little escapade he has felt invincable, which is evident with all the new rules he is trying to jam down the teams throat.. I have followed F1 for over 40yrs and the last season was a joke. The racing this year is better but all the bickering is taking away from the show. Bernie and Max both want to rule with an iron hand, but we need to remember that without the teams, we dont have a show. F1 needs to be expensive, cutting edge, high technology and with very few limits.
I love how the old washed up has beens pundits are now taking sides with either Bernie or Max. Niki Lauda is now saying that the spending cap is the best thing he has ever heard. What does he know other than drive well in his time, nothing else he has done has been successful.
I havent watched open wheel racing in the US since the forming of Indycar. Back when Cart broke away from USAC to form a very good alternative to F1. Technology ruled and the drivers where great. Now the cars are the same chassis with the same moters and the difference is who figures out the setup the best. The drivers are not top tier.
If FOTA does break away and form a new series, I believe it will be successful if it returns to the old ways of F1, Only race at the old venues, forget all these far east and mideast races and go back to the pure parts of the sport that supporrted them before Bernie took over the marketing. Let the tracks make money and let the teams split the TV revenue. Quit charging a track so much to hold the race that the city that is near it has to underwrite it. The great tracks that have been anchors of the series are loosing out to Bernie Greed. Canada is out , France is out, next is Britain, and it is only getting worse. If we dont reign in these characters and their silly ideas, we might as well forget about a true top level racing series.
Max is trying something he can not control. these large teams are not going top let Max’s cronies come in and waltz through their books to check what they spend. i dont think he can legal do it.
As for teams reducing thier budgets that will happen on its own, when the sponcers start spending less the teams will adjust their bugets accordingly
Can we not have a tax system instead of a budget cap? That way teams such as Ferrari spend as much as they like, but it becomes exponentially more difficult to do so.
Money taxed from the large teams goes to help new teams that wish to set up afresh in F1.
Just an idea, because to me a 40m budget cap takes the capitalist element out of the sport that drives innovation forward. F1 then becomes a small self-sustaining economy, and not a regime with Max the dictator.
It would probably never work! : )
I like original ideas!
Unfortunately I think this one would fall foul of anti-competition laws.
First off the only thing Max is worried about is F1’s profit margins. The sponsorship contracts for RBS, ING, and Allianze are up. The world economy will recover soon, then Max cant make up this idea the F1 might collapse. So why not fight with Ferrari. Max and the FIA cronies are super rich they cant cry poverty. Max wants to control F1 for his own profit. In America baseball has no buget caps. The New York Yankees have almost a 500 million USD budget. Majar League Baseball rules state that any team that wants to spend that much are required to pay a luxury tax. The money is split among the low budget teams. Why cant this work in F1?
Hamletxi, can you explain how the luxury tax works and who enforces it?
“fans should be campaigning for an outbreak of common sense in the upper echelons of the sport.”
We’ve been doing that for years.
The Stig for FIA president!
I’m of the opinion that Ferrari is F1 and F1 is Ferrari. The two go hand in hand and the FIA must remember that Ferrari can replace F1 and start their own series. But the FIA can’t replace Ferrari.
The FIA has to be very careful not to remove the very fabric of F1. The British, German and French Grands Prix are all in danger of being lost from the calender. They can’t push Ferrari out as well. They will be left with something that just isn’t Formula 1.
I think the Manufacturers are not thinking properly about this at all. Sure, they can moan about the ‘two tier’ system, and not being able to work with the budget. Well, fine, thats one way to solve the problem…
But Max has shown his hand, and how weak it is. There is the get-out clause of NOT sticking to the budget. All the Manufacturers – and it needs to be ALL of them for this to work – must declare that they will use option B (ie not staying in the budget) for next year, but carry on designing and redesigning cars as they always used to, ignoring any limitations imposed by the FIA.
Is Max strong enough to penalise nearly every team on the grid at the first race in 2010? I don’t think so. If he did, his reputation would plummet so fast he wouldn’t know what to do. He would be seen to be the guy who killed F1, instead of putting the blame on the Teams as he is now.
However, FOTA needs to show that it can work together and against Max and the FIA for this to succeed.
The one good thing about this is that Bernie is running round in circles between FIA and FOTA because he can see that without the Manufacturers, his end is nigh….
Passive resistance in F1? I like it…