F1 links: FOTA agrees on KERS ban

In what looks like another tactical move, the FOTA teams have agreed to push for KERS to be scrapped in 2010. They call the move a cost-saving initiative, which it undoubtedly is, but it’s also likely to rile Max Mosley, who demanded the systems be introduced this year at considerable cost to the teams.

Here are some of the other headlines from today. As usual, please post links to other interesting items in the comments…

FOTA agree to scrap Kers for 2010

"BBC Sport understands that Ferrari are desperate to drop their system because it has been so unreliable for them, while McLaren's package developed by Mercedes has proved more successful. Though McLaren team boss Martin Whitmarsh is a fan of Kers, for a variety of reasons, he accepts that dropping it may be the only way forward."

James Allen’s Turkish GP verdict

"BMW were back on song in this race, after not a great qualifying session. Robert Kubica finished seventh and the car looks like it’s now about half a second a lap slower than the pace setters. They have been miles off at times recently."

Alonso calls for changes to Renault car

"We need changes, any changes. I'd welcome any new part. We have been using the same car since Bahrain and we are going worse and worse, and until we introduce a part that improves the car it will be hard."

New front wing for BGP001

"The most important advantage of this will be the adjustability for the drivers. Previously they only has control of a small panel of which they could change the angle of attack, but adjusting the new single flap by 6° will greatly change downforce at the front end."

Mallya wants FOTA suspension reversed

Vijay Mallya: "Both these sources of income, which are sources of comfort for banks to lend money, would have been under threat if our entry was not accepted. So therefore we were legally advised that Force India might breach our banking covenants if we went down the route of a conditional entry and did not lodge an unconditional entry as always. All of this was completely shared with FOTA."

Webber rues poor Turkish GP crowd

"Official figures said just 36,000 three-day tickets were sold for the circuit with a capacity for 130,000 people."

Button does not fear win run ending

Button on Barrichello: "Michael [Schumacher] had this situation with Rubens when Rubens was allowed to race him. He was very, very quick. I can't forget I've got a team-mate who is going to push me very hard and he has this year, especially the last couple of races. The package of the car has suited him a little more than the package at the start of the year. He was suffering with his brakes and he isn't any more. That puts pressure on us both but I think that's a good thing."

Formula One in desperate need for stability

"The battle between the major teams, the FIA and the rights holder, FOTA, is at fever pitch. Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota, Renault and BMW have signed a $50m bond not to jump ship and enter the 2010 championship unconditionally within the next 30 days."

These are links I’ve bookmarked using Delicious. You can see my Delicious profile here.

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42 comments on F1 links: FOTA agrees on KERS ban

  1. ajokay said on 7th June 2009, 22:35

    ‘Litespeed’ to use the ‘Lotus’ name if it gets a place on the F1 grid next year:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8084475.stm

  2. persempre said on 7th June 2009, 22:35

    KERS was Max’ daft idea in the first place. It has cost a fortune, wrecked the balance of the cars & all for a flight of fancy about being relevant to road cars that have had the technology for years, anyway.
    Only Ferrari & McLaren are still really using it & look where it’s getting them.
    The fact that this decision will rile Max is, in my view, somewhere between ‘tough’ & :)

  3. Internet said on 7th June 2009, 23:32

    I personally don’t understand why Ferrari and McLaren in particular would agree on a KERS ban, without KERS they would be nowhere, like Ferrari found out when they decided to run without it for a race.

    • persempre said on 8th June 2009, 0:51

      Because, once committed to using it, the car had to be designed around having KERS.
      The position of the KERS means the weight is further back in the car than is ideal & less ballast can be used in other, more desirable, areas. It throws the whole balance of the car out.
      Whether the thing is turned on or off you still have the weight so, if it’s on the car, you may as well try to make it work to your advantage if possible.

      • Patrickl said on 8th June 2009, 9:24

        Nonsense. When they take it out they take it out. The weight is gone.

        Ferrari can install a bigger fuel tank when KERS is out though.

        • persempre said on 8th June 2009, 11:58

          Whether it physically comes out is not the point I was making, Patrick. What happens to the balance of the car if KERS is removed?
          The car was designed from scratch to carry it. A KERS car without KERS doesn`t suddenly become the same as a non-KERS designed car.
          It still leaves a car designed to have a whacking great 25-30kg somewhere it would be better not to have it.

          On the fuel tank side, yes. That extra size will be needed by all the teams if refuelling stops.

    • John H said on 8th June 2009, 9:30

      They agree on a KERS ban because although they will take a financial hit, they know what is best for the sport.

      I wonder which other 2 people could learn a lesson or two from this @ : )

  4. craig said on 8th June 2009, 0:29

    As for KERS, as much as I love F1, I always have to laugh at this sport when they throw away cash when the economy is good and all of a sudden they have to sell the house in order to save, save, save. And if I remember correctly they were talking about tightening belts with making engines last more than 1 race. Why they ever let the KERS out of the bag when there were so many unknowns about it.

  5. matt said on 8th June 2009, 0:34

    I thought they’d go with a standardised KERS rather than banning it altogether.

  6. VXR said on 8th June 2009, 1:16

    Remember that only ‘FOTA’ have banned it.It’s still currently available to use in a much more advanced form in the 2010 regulations.

    • Dr Jones said on 8th June 2009, 8:45

      If FOTA comes out with their own series, I dream it will be a “Manufacturer’s GP.” They can also invite back like Honda, Lamborghini, Ford, Jaguar, etc. It will be a battle of technology – which so far may replace F1 as a pinnacle of motorsport racing. Wouldn’t that be wonderful? =)

      • manatcna said on 9th June 2009, 4:07

        They could invite them, but how many would accept?

      • Rich said on 10th June 2009, 2:44

        Better first check with their respective Boards of Directors to see how many want to try to match ferrari’s half a billion dollars a year expenditures! And of course Lambo is owned by Fiat just like Ferrari, so are they gonna duplicate the effort for *another half billion $$ ??
        Since they’re in it solely for the money and not the Glory I seriously doubt it’d happen.

    • Patrickl said on 8th June 2009, 9:21

      Would be cool if Williams got their KERS sorted and they bolt it on for 2010.

      • 159Tom said on 8th June 2009, 12:09

        Yeah I’d like to see the Williams KERS racing, hopefully this year. Pre-season, Sam Michael said KERS may be a bigger advantage “once aero performance converges”.

        Anyone know if it’s not ready yet, or are they just waiting for the right time to unleash it?

  7. Well, given that williams are no longer part of FOTA, I hope Williams trounce everyone with their flywheel KERS if they ever introduce it.

  8. persempre said on 8th June 2009, 12:27

    I`m not sure they`ll get it to stop throwing itself around inside the car before this season runs out. The vibration is meant to be absolutely dire. Not the best thing to have inside an expensive, fragile F1 car.

  9. pSynrg said on 8th June 2009, 12:55

    Well, after Turkey I must admit that I agree with the banning of KERS. Either that or everyone has it.

    It was so artificial watching Kovalinen re-pass Barricello for no reason other than KERS…

  10. Chaz said on 8th June 2009, 13:12

    The lawyers must be rubbing their hands with glee as they stand to gain the most from this Max, Bernie, FOTA spat. And what of Bernie, he seems to be quiet of late. Are him and Max taking it in turns to turn up the heat on FOTA…

  11. benno said on 8th June 2009, 13:16

    Given the excessive R&D costs; It’s a shameful and disgraceful waste of money to throw KERs in the bin. There will also be some devalue of the F1 brand and it’s reputation.

    KERS stems from good ideas but implemented badly. As a fan I like the concept of strategic push to pass/push to defend ( as with other series ). But when not all teams and not all cars have it, it can be unfair / disadvantage on multiple levels. There are also safety issues, including excessive dieting of the drivers.

    Albeit these issues are or will be addressed. But I would have expected the governing body to have foreseen and avoided most of them in the first place!

    If any good can come, atleast it make it easier (cheaper) for new teams to come in the sport.

    I would have loved to see the Williams system – in particular what effects the rotation of the flywheel would have on the car.

  12. mp4-19 said on 8th June 2009, 13:42

    this is what is called “FLUSHING MONEY DOWN THE TOILET SINK”. what the hell? a year ago it was green technology & now its scrapped to save costs? complete bull**** move by fota or fia or whoever is suggesting it. kers in the first place is “NOT” green technology imho. tell me how is it applicable in road cars? kers is evergy recovered during braking form very high speeds. do road cars reach such speeds? even if they do, is it practically possible to reach such speeds on public roads? & moreover the energy recovered from braking is used to boost up engine revs. now tell me why would someone want to boost up their engine on a normal road car? how can this be called green technology ? its not? its a complete waste of $$$. max mosley must take basic lessons in economics & physics, cuz he’s poor at both.

    • beneboy said on 8th June 2009, 18:55

      I can’t find a link but there was an article on the BBC News website last week about Transport for London visiting one of the F1 factories to check out KERS as they’d got the idea to use it on their new trains after seeing it in F1 so wanted to see how it worked.

      There’s already several road vehicles on sale that use KERS, the battery is charged under braking and then compliments the engine to reduce fuel consumption in petrol vehicles. There’s also some electric vehicles that use the same system to recharge their battery.

      I took one out for a test ride a few months ago and was very impressed:
      http://www.nxgn-ltd.com/ezweblite/public/styles/marriott_motorcycles/news_article.asp?BRA_ID=2451&FRC_ID=877&BRN_ID=6855

      The technology of the current F1 KERS systems don’t relate to production systems at the moment but there’s no reason why, after a few years of development, they wouldn’t be bringing new developments to the ones we use in our cars & bikes.

      I didn’t like the way it was introduced but I was happy to see F1 developing technologies that could one day benefit production vehicles, like they used to in the good old days.

      Given the choice, I’d rather see them spending money on KERS than on aerodynamics.

      • persempre said on 8th June 2009, 19:01

        I`d rather wsee them coming up with something really useful like significant improvements in fuel economy, for instance.
        That really would be green & have widespread interest & use in ordinary road cars

        • beneboy said on 8th June 2009, 19:39

          The easiest way to do this is to get rid of all engine regulations and instead set a maximum fuel limit for the race.
          Each year you’d reduce the maximum fuel allowance by a few percent.

          It’d be simple to police too as you’d just set a maximum capacity for the fuel container.

          This has been my preferred rule for several years, strangely, Mosley seems to ignore my letters of suggestions :-)

          • persempre said on 8th June 2009, 19:45

            It`s possible that the end of refuelling may, in itself, add to the need for more research into fuel economy.
            At least, we can hope so :)

        • beneboy said on 8th June 2009, 19:56

          If we get the unrestricted regulations (just without the two tier aspect) it might just happen.

          Engine technology has been suppressed for far too long in F1. Laser ignition is just one area they should have allowed years ago and there are many others too.

  13. Maurice Henry said on 8th June 2009, 18:11

    mp4-19 – This is a problem that many in the industry said would occur. It was clear from the package done at the Spanish GP by Brundle with Norbie Haug that Mercedes had been funding KERS research for a few years. John Watson told Radio 5 Live in December last year that the batteries in some of the systems would be thrown away after every race. And then Johnny Mowlem telling us during the Sebring 12 hrs coverage that one manufacturer had spent US$50 million since August 2008 developing KERS. I agree that if you’re going to have it, give everyone the same system or else scrap it altogether.

  14. beneboy said on 8th June 2009, 19:43

    Anyone wanting to see some non-Carbon based racing should check out the TTXGP, a TT race at this years Isle of Man TT where the bikes are powered by non-petrol engines.

    http://www.ttxgp.com/

  15. 123 said on 8th June 2009, 22:08

    the fota should team up together and make a car that will destroy the 2010 season

    this will never happen of course

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