2010 F1 teams list to be announced (Update: FIA has revealed list)

How many teams will be on the FIA's entry list for 2010?

How many teams will be on the FIA's entry list for 2010?

Today the FIA is due to finally announce its F1 teams entry list for 2010 – the consequences of which could be far-reaching for Formula 1.

There have been signs in recent days that Max Mosley and the eight remaining teams represented by FOTA might be close to a compromise solution.

The list published by the FIA today will tell us whether it believes a compromise is workable or if it’s resigned to driving many of the existing teams out of the sport.

Update: The FIA’s list has been published – see the comments for details.

The row has dragged on for so long that, amid all the talk of a breakaway championships and changes in the technical regulations, it’s easy to lose sight of what’s important.

What began as a discussion on how to guarantee the long-term future at the sport has turned into a conflict that arguably places it in even greater jeopardy than the recession does.

Max Mosley insisted that, as none of the manufacturer teams had agreed to commit to Formula 1 for the future, it is essential that F1 run to a budget cap.

Although he has still not conceded that fundamental point, yesterday it emerged that he had suddenly yielded on several key areas – for example, potentially allowing a cap of ??100m which is more than the ??47m originally proposed.

Mosley remains fixed on the idea of a budget cap despite the FOTA teams having offered him the commitment he demanded until at least 2012. One therefore has to ask whether what he really wanted all along was not a commitment from the teams to stay in F1, but something else.

Among the points conceded by Mosley yesterday were:

  • Potential increase of the cap to ??100m followed by a ‘glide’ towards a lower limit
  • Exemptions from the budget cap for highly-paid staff other than drivers
  • Not giving performance advantages to budget-capped teams
  • Signing of a new Concorde Agreement (to define the future governance of the sport and distribution of income)

Aside from sticking to his plan for some form of a cap, this amounts to a U-turn on almost every one of Mosley’s positions. But one thing is conspicuously missing from Mosley’s offer – any mention of reform to the governance of F1.

This has become a significant issue for the teams, tired of the endless political bickering that goes on in Formula 1, and seeing Mosley as the one responsible for it.

Mosley had previously indicated he will make a decision this month on whether he will stand for another term as president of the FIA. Are the teams holding out for an assurance that he will not run again come October?

The point at which reconciliation was the smart thing to do passed a long time ago. Now it is the only thing to do.

As I wrote last week, I firmly believe the FIA should have taken up the teams’ offer of a deal for the next three years. I hope later today we will not be ruing their failure to seize that opportunity.

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174 comments on 2010 F1 teams list to be announced (Update: FIA has revealed list)

  1. Patrickl said on 12th June 2009, 13:40

    Is it a coincidence that Nick Wirth, former business partner of Max Mosley (they founded Simtek together) is involved in the rather unknown, yet accepted, entry of Manor Grand Prix?

    • No, probably not.
      When things involve as much money as F1 does, there are very rarely coincidences.

    • Hounslow said on 12th June 2009, 14:08

      From Wikipedia

      Manor Grand Prix is an auto racing team that will compete in the 2010 Formula One season. They were granted entry on 12 June 2009, as one of three new teams[1][2]. The team is a tie-up between Manor Motorsport and Wirth Research. Manor Motorsport boss John Booth is the team owner and former Simtek team owner Nick Wirth will be the technical director.[3] They will use engines supplied by Cosworth. Manor Motorsport are best known as a Formula Three team, currently running in the Formula Three Euroseries.

      From the entry for Nick Wirth on Wikipedia

      In 2006 Wirth began working for the FIA in the Casumaro windtunnel in Italy on the split rear wing design that the FIA proposed for the 2008 F1 season.

      In 2007 he became involved with the Acura LMP programme in the American Le Mans Series and has since continued working especially with the design of the new LMP1 class car for 2009 season.

      In 2010, Wirth will return to Formula One as technical director with the new Manor Grand Prix team, which has formed a technical partnership with his company Wirth Research.

    • Navs said on 12th June 2009, 14:12

      Interesting observation, but if you’re trying to make a broader point:

      Is it a coincidence that businessmen with contacts and connections get ahead over others even if those others have higher merit?

      Welcome to the real world. Nepotism is bad in government perhaps, but this is all a profit-making enterprise. Par for the course.

      • Patrickl said on 12th June 2009, 15:51

        Well I was surprised that (in my mind) more likely entries like Prodrive and Lola were not accepted and an F3 team (albeit Euroseries) is accepted.

  2. Brawn GP TBA

    What engine they will use in 2010?

  3. A Singh said on 12th June 2009, 14:29

    James Allen’s got a snapshot on his website:

    http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/index.htm

  4. Brian said on 12th June 2009, 14:34

    I thought that Prodrive was a shoe in? I also thought they were later going to be named Aston Martin, right? What happened? I really wanted an Aston Martin team! Middle fingers up to you FIA!!!

    • Prisoner Monkeys said on 12th June 2009, 15:41

      I suspect they’re on the provisional list. The FIA probably believe that someone is likely to leave even if the budget cap is resolved in a wy everony agrees upon; Renault have allegedly been telling suppliers not to be too surprised if they back out as they’ve suffered a downturn in sales of road cars and ING are ending their involvement with the sport. Larger firms with more money, like Prodrive and Lola, are in a much better position to buy the remains of departing teams than smaller organisations like Manor and Campos. Because they have that money, but they’re still entitled to FOM’s freshman-year support, they don’t run at a loss.

      Put it this way: Bernie wants thirteen teams on the grid. They give entries to Prodrive, Lola and US-F1. But then Renault, Toyota and BMW back out, and none of the other organisations have the funds to purchase their remains. This way, the three places are taken by teams who can’t afford to purchase another’s assets.

      I suspect at least one team has privately gone to the FIA and said “We can’t compete in 2010, not because of the budget cap but because we’re not geting results/our road car division isn’t doing too well/other excuse,” but because they submitted a conditional entry, they want to see this out. Because they are still in the sport, they still have the right to be treated as a member of FOTA, and so are seeing this through to the end, after which time they’ll quietly take their leave.

      See, this is the problem with everyone. They assume everything is political. And while it is political, it isn’t nearly as one-dimensional as people seem to think it is.

      • Chris said on 12th June 2009, 16:00

        Also it puts pressure on the condional entries.

        For example is Max really going to say to McLarren well make your mind up or i will give your place to Manor Grand Prix where as the same question with Pro Drive is slightly less laughable

      • Adam said on 12th June 2009, 20:51

        I highly doubt any team has gone to the FIA and told them they are pulling out due to the performance of their business’s off track side. The only teams that might pull out because their not selling cars are the manufacturers. None of the manufacturers (Ferrari included) have submitted an unconditional application or spoken out in support of FIA’s proposals. You can be certain that if someone privately went to FIA to tell them things were that bad the FIA would never let that information stay private. If Renault, Toyota, etc. had indicated they were pulling out it would either be very public (to embarrass them) or they would be having to publicly support the FIA’s proposal so that FIA would keep it quiet. The FIA would use it to try and penalize that manufacturer for being part of the FOTA teams. But first they would use the threat of releasing that information to force that team to break ranks.

  5. Prodrive is probably the BEST qualified potential new team. Why weren’t they selected? Richards has too much attitude for Mosley (my guess). He has selected new teams with owners who will more than likely toe the FIA party line.

    Richards, to his credit, has never been bashful about expressing right and wrong. And it probably cost him an entry. Dankeshein Max!

    • Prisoner Monkeys said on 12th June 2009, 15:27

      You do realise Mosley wasn’t the only person who picked through the entries … right?

      • Patrickl said on 12th June 2009, 20:54

        Wasn’t he the one who picked the 3 “winner” from the final 5 prospects though?

        • Prisoner Monkeys said on 13th June 2009, 1:56

          No. The terms “Max Mosley” and “FIA” have been interchangeable of late, but there’s no way one man had all that power. It would be political suicide for the organisation.

  6. Oliver said on 12th June 2009, 14:59

    Aston Martin isn’t exactly a giant car manufacturer and I very much doubt the have the resources to fund a racing operation on their own. For one they wont be making their own engines.

    • TommyB said on 12th June 2009, 16:37

      They probably have more money than “Manor”

      • sean said on 12th June 2009, 21:15

        yeah nick wirth has such a glorious career in f1. I remember that simtek wasn’t it sponsored by MTV and fail to make the grid on more than one occasion, did it actually finish the season?

  7. VXR said on 12th June 2009, 15:14

    Prodrive would probably enter with Cosworth engines or maybe Mercedes,but certainly not Aston Martin engines at this point!

    I should point out that the ‘FIA’ chose five teams for Max to choose from,which may or may not have included Prodrive.Having Prodrive,Lola,Lotus and others ‘waiting in the wings’ gives Max some leverage in the days ahead.

    • Gman said on 15th June 2009, 2:03

      Exactly- having credible outfits with big motorsports names gives Max some weapons to use in order to point at the FOTA club and say “If you don’t show up, we’ll get these guys instead……”

  8. Is it just me or does Prodrive (and hence David Richards) buying out Renault (formerly Bennetton – hmmmm didn’t David Richards work there for a little while?) make some kind of weird sense…??

    • Hounslow said on 12th June 2009, 16:11

      Maybe.

      In 1997, when Flavio Briatore was fired as Director of the Benetton team, Richards replaced him. However, his tenure only lasted one year, as he could not agree a long term strategy with the team-owning Benetton family.

  9. persempre said on 12th June 2009, 16:22

    FOTA have written to the FIA Senate & WMSC asking them to intervene.
    Extracts from their letter can be read here

    If the Senate & WMSC are seriously interested in the future of F1 they will act.
    Max may believe that F1 can exist without manufacturers but there are other motorsports watching what is happening in F1 & where manufacturers are the mainstay. The WMSC has them to consider, too.

    Max may have entered Ferrari, RBR & STR on the assumption that there are binding agreements but, in fact, this is still an attempt to break FOTA by separating them into the 2 groups.

    Funny how someone who such a short while ago was saying “F1 can live without Ferrari” now feels the need to include them at the expense of other teams he was so eager to include, eh? It seems to me he needs them more than he’s willing to admit.

    • Hounslow said on 12th June 2009, 16:34

      Certainly looks that way. Maybe he’s just trying to prove that he has the ‘whip hand’ over everyone, and to wrong foot Ferrari in particular. It’s just like Max to get into a personal fight with someone. It used to be Ron Dennis, now it’s Luca.

      F1sa is reporting that Dallara will build the Manor cars, incidentally.

      • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 16:56

        Off topic & just out of interest has Hounslow demolished the Bus Garage?
        Or is it someone totally different?

        • HounslowBusGarage said on 12th June 2009, 17:01

          The Bus Garage is alive and well, c’est moi!
          I had to restart the PC and I couldn’t be bothered to type in Bus Garage.
          There, I’ve done it now.

          • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 17:29

            Oh :(
            I was so looking forward to not having to type such a long name. My typing sucks. :)

        • Gman said on 15th June 2009, 2:04

          I was wondering the same thing, haha!

  10. VXR said on 12th June 2009, 16:50

    The WMSC will of course argue that Ferrari had a chance to use its technical veto to prevent the 2010 regulations from ever coming into force,but they didn’t use it,and so they will not get much sympathy there I’m afraid.

    • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 16:58

      What will they say to the other FOTA members? People seem to forget this is not all Ferrari. Several other teams are involved too.

  11. TommyB said on 12th June 2009, 16:53

    They should let the fans choose the entry list.

    I bet not one person on this planet (excluding the team itself) wanted Manor to be chosen over Lola or Prodrive

    • VXR said on 12th June 2009, 17:14

      Quite a few wouldn’t put Ferrari on it either!

      A quote from Max about Ferrar’s veto.

      “We will say first of all it is no longer in place and if they wanted to do a veto – they were in the [FIA] meeting on March 17 and they should have done it there if they didn’t agree. Instead, they just sat there,” said Mosley.

  12. Navs said on 12th June 2009, 17:37

    FOTA are also soon coming out with a dossier listing reasons the proposed new regs are bad for the sport. FOTA is acting with remarkable speed and unity for a body that contains so many entities with such a wide range of interests and investments.

  13. persempre said on 12th June 2009, 18:08

    I don’t think this has been posted yet, so
    FOTA statement:

    Geneva, 12 June 2009. In response to the erroneous statement made today by FIA, the Formula One Teams Association (FOTA) wishes to underline that the entries of all its members – excluding the temporarily suspended Force India and Williams – have been submitted to the FIA as conditional entries.

    The entries to the 2010 FIA F1 Championship submitted by BMW-Sauber, BrawnGP, Ferrari, McLaren, Red Bull Racing, Renault, Toro Rosso and Toyota were based upon conditions that have still yet to be met.

    FOTA will continue to act constructively on resolving differences with the FIA. Regrettably FOTA is being forced to outline in detail our objections to the new arbitrary FIA proposals and we will release details of our concerns in the near future which will constructively explain why the FIA’s proposals are bad for the future of Formula One, the jobs of those employed within the motor-racing industry and especially the millions of loyal fans who are dismayed and confused at the internal bickering within our sport.

    FOTA reaffirms the unity and strength of its members, welcomes the three new F1 entrants announced today and remains committed to work with all the bodies of the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile to resolve our differences.

  14. ACEA wants change to F1 governance

    The European Automobile Manufacturer’s Association (ACEA) has stepped into the row engulfing Formula 1 – and claimed that the current governance of the sport cannot continue.

    Its members are BMW Group, DAF Trucks, Daimler, FIAT Group, Ford of Europe, General Motors Europe, Jaguar Land Rover, MAN Nutzfahrzeuge, Porsche, PSA Peugeot Citroën, Renault, Scania, Toyota Motor Europe, Volkswagen and Volvo.

    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/76093

    • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 18:24

      Yes, they want the FIA changed not F1.
      The ACEA contains manufacturers from other series.

  15. Hollus said on 12th June 2009, 18:21

    “FOTA … welcomes the three new F1 entrants announced today…”
    Errr, sure! I wonder if the welcoming gift is a 55 million Euro cheque, just in case it is needed next week.
    What are the chances of a solution when none of the parts seems really interested in dialogue? I really, really hope the F1 lives through this without too much damage. Favorite sports are difficult to come by!

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