2010 F1 teams list to be announced (Update: FIA has revealed list)

How many teams will be on the FIA's entry list for 2010?

How many teams will be on the FIA's entry list for 2010?

Today the FIA is due to finally announce its F1 teams entry list for 2010 – the consequences of which could be far-reaching for Formula 1.

There have been signs in recent days that Max Mosley and the eight remaining teams represented by FOTA might be close to a compromise solution.

The list published by the FIA today will tell us whether it believes a compromise is workable or if it’s resigned to driving many of the existing teams out of the sport.

Update: The FIA’s list has been published – see the comments for details.

The row has dragged on for so long that, amid all the talk of a breakaway championships and changes in the technical regulations, it’s easy to lose sight of what’s important.

What began as a discussion on how to guarantee the long-term future at the sport has turned into a conflict that arguably places it in even greater jeopardy than the recession does.

Max Mosley insisted that, as none of the manufacturer teams had agreed to commit to Formula 1 for the future, it is essential that F1 run to a budget cap.

Although he has still not conceded that fundamental point, yesterday it emerged that he had suddenly yielded on several key areas – for example, potentially allowing a cap of ??100m which is more than the ??47m originally proposed.

Mosley remains fixed on the idea of a budget cap despite the FOTA teams having offered him the commitment he demanded until at least 2012. One therefore has to ask whether what he really wanted all along was not a commitment from the teams to stay in F1, but something else.

Among the points conceded by Mosley yesterday were:

  • Potential increase of the cap to ??100m followed by a ‘glide’ towards a lower limit
  • Exemptions from the budget cap for highly-paid staff other than drivers
  • Not giving performance advantages to budget-capped teams
  • Signing of a new Concorde Agreement (to define the future governance of the sport and distribution of income)

Aside from sticking to his plan for some form of a cap, this amounts to a U-turn on almost every one of Mosley’s positions. But one thing is conspicuously missing from Mosley’s offer – any mention of reform to the governance of F1.

This has become a significant issue for the teams, tired of the endless political bickering that goes on in Formula 1, and seeing Mosley as the one responsible for it.

Mosley had previously indicated he will make a decision this month on whether he will stand for another term as president of the FIA. Are the teams holding out for an assurance that he will not run again come October?

The point at which reconciliation was the smart thing to do passed a long time ago. Now it is the only thing to do.

As I wrote last week, I firmly believe the FIA should have taken up the teams’ offer of a deal for the next three years. I hope later today we will not be ruing their failure to seize that opportunity.

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174 comments on 2010 F1 teams list to be announced (Update: FIA has revealed list)

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  1. Random Chimp said on 12th June 2009, 19:05

    All of this speculation is better entertainment than the racing…

  2. Bigbadderboom said on 12th June 2009, 19:14

    Max (FIA) is finding himself fighting on several fronts now, the FIA are going to find it extremely difficult to sort this out to everyones satisfaction without backing down. The language being used by FOTA is suggestive that they maybe resigned to the fact that they my have to be absent from 2010 grid, even if to underline their argument. Please sort this out people………..

  3. Chris said on 12th June 2009, 19:16

    Well well well- Nothing surprising here.

    Let the teams spend what they want. Money cannot buy the trophy, but neither will saving 1B pounds….

  4. Isn’t the WMSC the same group that endorsed Max’s tenure after Spankgate? Does FOTA expect guys like Radovan Novak
    to come to their aid when he owes his FIA existence to Max?

    As previously noted the best news out of all this is the ACEA jumping in on FOTA’s side.

    • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 20:32

      Yes, the same WMSC.
      But there’s a big difference between not taking action over what someone does in their private life & what they do in their position (sorry no inuendo intended) at work.
      This time it’s about the future of not only F1 but other series of motorsport, too.
      In fact, from the ACEA statement they are taking it as far as “motorists” in general.

  5. Stoo said on 12th June 2009, 20:29

    Exciting isn’t it…

  6. Salut Gilles said on 12th June 2009, 20:32

    The best thing about this whole discussion is watching how upset TommyB is that Prodrive was not on the list.

    Other than that, this 2010 business is all very painful and frustrating.

    • TommyB said on 12th June 2009, 21:34

      That’s a bit harsh. No need to pick on people

      • Salut Gilles said on 14th June 2009, 16:59

        Sorry. It’s just that, instead of dissapointment, you expressed outrage at the choice. Though there is nothing wrong with that, it still came off as funny.

  7. matt044907 (@matt044907) said on 12th June 2009, 20:43

    Someone needs to sort this out once and for all – where are the drivers? Where is the GPDA opinion on all of this? It’s all very well siding with FOTA in Turkey – but where is there stance on all of this? Come on Alonso, Hamilton, Raikonnen, Webber – where is your opinion?

    Our Driving Heroes need to show us, the fans that they have the best interests of the sport at heart. They should demand the changes and bring the teams and FIA together.

    The fans want action, they want proper governance, new teams and brilliant racing. The FIA are absolutely not acting with these intentions and the sooner Max Mosely is removed from office the better.

    • Patrickl said on 12th June 2009, 20:57

      Alonso, Massa, Hamilton and Vettel already gave their opinion.

      Alonso and Massa gave some lame speech with phoney sentiments about how the new rules are bad. Hamilton and Vettel stated that they simply want to race.

      • Hollus said on 12th June 2009, 22:42

        Don’t forget that the superstars are exposed to having their salaries cut ten-fold if the harder version of the budget cap ever comes into force. One doesn’t say something that costs the last 0 of your salary.

        • PJA said on 15th June 2009, 12:07

          Under the FIA’s current budget cap rules driver salaries are exempt so in theory at least the drivers won’t see their salaries cut.

    • HounslowBusGarage said on 12th June 2009, 20:57

      If the drivers have any sense, they will keep their mouths corporately shut. They are under contracted to the Teams – FOTA or FOTA suspended. Their function is to be faithfully contractees of their teams and to keep out of the wranglings.
      Apart from that, there’s nothing they could usefully add to the argument.This is not an argument about safety or speed. What could the drivers do – refuse to drive? There would be half a million applicants for their jobs in hours. They have no leverage.

    • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 21:13

      The GPDA have spoken & backed FOTA
      Trulli seems to have been acting as spokesman.

  8. Hamish said on 12th June 2009, 21:31

    I’m sorry I’m not a huge supporter of blogs but I have to let my views be known as this has got beyond ridiculous. Someone get me on a plane to Paris as the solution is quiet obvious. F1 is tarnished and in all honesty I blame it on one person, Max Mosley.

    What is this whole situation about, the better for the sport or Max Mosley not willing to concede defeat and admit he had got it wrong? The sport is borderline f*cked compared to what it used to be, and a lot of this is due to Mosleys ego distorting the vision of what is for the better of the sport. With no disrespect to Mosley Jr I sometimes wish Max would go down his track and put a bit too much of something up his nose, and disappear.

    I’m 99% through writing a report that I do want to submit on the net in regards to the sport as a whole, and what can be done to improve it. We have heard these views before from commentators, drivers, team priciples, but one group has never voiced its opinion – the fans. I cover many aspects in this report as a whole a time, research and effort has gone into it, they include:

    – CVC taking just under a quarter of all profits out of the sport just to satisfy an interest obligation. Did you know $4.8million is leaving the sport each week just to satisfy CVC’s interest obligations in regards to their loan. $4.8million that doesn’t contribute to the improvment in the sport in any way, shape or form.
    – The loss of “traditional” grand prix, and grand prix fundamental to the sport and its growth (notably America). If I had a say I’d have more than 1 GP in America, and not at Indy.
    – What can be learnt from nascar. They take a very mediocre sport of motor racing and deliver it in a package that is appealing, and therefore successful. Camera angles, drivers with personalities that we can actually connect to and show their true emotion and reaction – something a common man could relate to.
    – The fact that it is just a European Gentleman’s Club. Yes, started and predominately raced in and around Europe but if they want it to become truly a worldwide sport it must appeal to the world, which currently it doesn’t. Polands recent spike in popularity shows what can happen when a country which previously had next to nothing to do with the sport gets involved.
    – Tracks that are appealing. I am sick of GPs occurring in camel paddocks and expo 2010 advertising grounds. The tracks compared to the past are flat, and lacklustre. Yes, theres an importance in safety but it should be man, machine against nature, not a man made complex on flat land in the middle of no where. A bit of elevation wouldn’t hurt. Racing through a forest also contributes to F1s awareness of the environment. I go into detail in my report but why someone doesn’t plant trees, or buy a forest and build a track in it is beyond me. My calculation (with supporting evidence) shows that its easily possible for these trees to absorb all Co2 emitted, therefore making a GP carbon neutral. This would open doors up to various new sponsors and individuals entering F1 (Branson to name one). Given this, it could attract new fans given the emphasis on global warming etc currently.
    – F1 going worldwide. This can only be achieved by making the package appealing worldwide. New GPs are great but I don’t care about races in Bahrain and South Korea. Go where the people are and where the potential fan base is and the money will likely follow, not the other way around (which is failing). To get people to show genuine interest you must take it to the people
    – Politics within F1 and governance. Way too many egos. For the sake of the sport respect, understanding and respect in essential. The image the sport is portraying at the moment is embarrassing and some can be mistaken for forgetting that somewhere in the middle of this cars actually race. Is it a sport or something in line with the World Wrestling Federation?
    – New entrants. Some form of restriction on spending ($100m) and technical advancement so that new entrants will enter knowing they have the chance of being at least semi competitive. There is too much emphasis on aerodynamics (as illustrated by the hideous look of some cars) which may add performance, but do nothing for the spectacle.

    These are all just off the top of my head, but I do go into greater detail in the report as it is of a decent length. Let me know your thoughts, and if you do have any ideas please let me know. The whole point of this is to put forward our point of view, something that is hyet to be heard. Given we are fundamental to the sports existance, I think something like this is justified.

    Hamish

    • Hollus said on 12th June 2009, 22:49

      Great initiative, Hamish. Count me in. Also, please, somebody tell Max, Bernie, Flavio… that while the casual fan might not care about the technology, the solid fan base does. I would probably not watch without the technology part. And it is hardcore fans who create casual ones… the solid fans of tomorrow.
      For me knowing that the Red Bulls have a different suspension, with ultralow lying pieces, and that those same pieces don’t leave a lot of space for a large double diffuser: that is the kind of thing that get’s me hooked.

      • VXR said on 13th June 2009, 0:14

        The trouble with different suspension etc is that only about 1% of us actually give a toss.And if that suspension system costs $10,000,000 then so much the worse.

        F1 teams can no longer justify their 3 Billion a year budgets,and lets not forget exactly whose money it is that they’re spending!

    • persempre said on 12th June 2009, 23:00

      There have been fan surveys before, Hamish, but those by the FIA tended to have multiple choice with none of the choices most fans wanted ;)
      FOTA had its’ own survey which included real afficianados through to people who don’t even watch F1.
      They used the findings from that survey to help come up with the suggestions they sent to the FIA back in March.
      In case you hadn’t seen them (or had forgotten) I’ve linked to the FOTA press release here

    • Gman said on 15th June 2009, 2:17

      That’s an absolutley fantastic rant Hamish- I agree with pretty much everything you’ve said there. My only suggestion would be to leave out the part about Max’s son- it’s a poor sounding remark that dosen’t compare to the quality of the rest of your writings.

      As an American, I very much agree with having a quality Grand Prix- and maybe even more than one GP- here in the USA, in addition to Montreal being back. Along with that, France should obviously return, and the futures of races under threat- Silverstone and Melbourne- should be secured.

      It’s good to see F1 expand into Asia and the Middle East in many ways. If you look at India, there’s a big country that I believe can catch onto F1 quickly. But those new ventures should not come at the expense of the established markets where F1 is very successful and well-known.

    • PJA said on 15th June 2009, 12:05

      I agree with your argument.

      However, referring to your point about making F1 carbon neutral, I thought this was already the case. When Honda launched it’s Earth Dream car idea in 2007, one of the reports I remember reading was that Mosley had the FIA invest in carbon offsetting schemes to make F1 Carbon neutral since the late 1990s.

  9. Oliver said on 12th June 2009, 21:32

    The drivers are employed by the teams, so anywhere the team goes the driver will most likely follow as they have said.

    • VXR said on 13th June 2009, 0:18

      They aren’t likely to say: “I’m with Max on this one,F1 will still be F1 even if I have to cancel the order on my new Yacht”.

  10. Maurice Henry said on 12th June 2009, 23:52

    Hamish, I can’t wait to read your article. Thought I’d post these figures I gleaned from Sports Pro magazine March 2009 issue. The mag covers sports business and the editor in chief is the infamous, to some, Tom Rubython.

    This issue had a huge section on F1 2008. I will try and get this scanned and available to you all as soon as I can.

    Melbourne – Although it loses money every year consider this. They have to move 45,000 tonnes of equipment into the park, set it up and then remove it following the GP. They must repair any and all damage. This alone costs US$30 million. If the circuit was permanent it would probably be one of the few races that made a profit. It would have cost an additional US$45 million to light the whole track for a night race according to race promoter, Ron Walker

    Barcelona pays FOM a franchise fee of US$20million which id described as “…well below the international average”

    Istanbul Park – Management rights to the circuit came into Ecclestone’s pocket in 2007 via an Israeli venture capital firm. The management rights to the circuit, and the race, are belived to have been sold by The Union of Chambers and Commodities Exchanges of Turkey (TOBB) to Ecclestone for around US$180 million in April 2007. Terms of the deal are thought to include a US$3 million payment to TOBB by IPO, Ecclestone’s holding company for the event. IPO has run at significant losses since its inception. The circuit has a long contract with FOM, unsurprisingly, to run a GP up until 2021.

    Canada – Initially Ecclestone was demanding US$26 million for 2009 increasing by 5% in each subsequent year of the contract. The final straw came when Ecclestone demanded a govt or bank guarantee of US$143 million over the course of a five year deal.

    France Magny Cours – Franchise fee was US$12 million per year. In 2008 the French motorsport authority the FFSA spent a further US$8 million promoting the 2008 event.

    Hungary – Franchise fee US$13 million with the govt. supporting the enterprise to the tune of US$8 million. New deal in 2007 believed to involved a reduction of US$2 million per year in the Hungarian govt.’s investment

    Valencia – Franchise fee US$40 million per year. Upgrade work funded by the govt. to build the facility around US$100 million. Note mooring fees were on a two tier system with prices ranging from US$4000 to US$12000 with no view of the circuit

    Spa – (1)”The ownership and promotion of the Belgian Grand Prix remains something of a mystery.” (2)”…the FOM contract…which is believed to be putting a major financial burden on the regional govt. As it stands, no-one is sure if the Walloon govt, Bernie Ecclestone, or a hitherto unknown backer is in charge” (3)Several paragraphs before point (2) was this little gem, “The 2006 race was cancelled by the RAC of Belgium in order for the extensive renovation work to be undertaken on the pit and paddock facilities, and modificationsto be made to the Bis Stop chicane and La Source hairpins. Although the US$50 million building work was carried out from November 2006 to May 2007, amd two races have since been held at the circuit, the identity of Spa’s benefactor remains shrouded in mystery.” (4) The previous promotor Didier Defourney’s company DDF1 went bust with debts of around US$12 million which the regional govt of Walloonia took on when they reprieved the race in 2007. DDF1’s bankruptcy was prompted after 2005’s disasterous overall attendence figure of 50,000 spectators!

    Monza – The franchise fee paid to FOM is only US$3 million a year which is “…widely acknowledged as the smallest fee on the calendar” Interestingly, in 2005 the only 93,000 attended the event due to Ferrari’s lack of form

    Singapore – One man money machine and long time friend of Bernie, Ong Beng Seng, is responsible for a whopping 40% of the US$150 million cost of staging the race (this includes US$20 million a year for direct track preparation and lighting installation). The Singapore Tourist board meets the other 60% of the costs. “During negociations in May 2007 it is believed that Ong guaranteed Ecclestone franchise fees of some US$40 million a year, the going rate for a new Formula One race.”

    Abu Dhabi – Franchise fee thought to be over US$50 million per year over the contract period.

    Donnington’s venture has a major mystery investor, whose identity has yet to be revealed. What’s the betting the investor is short, with white hair and may have helped save Spa in the recent past…?

    Max saying the teams can’t sustain this level of funding is ignoring the other significant elephant in the room. The circuit promoters can’t afford this either unless they have significant govt money behind them or “a mystery investor” who spends money to save some tracks and not others.

    • Gman said on 15th June 2009, 2:24

      Maurice, this is great info- thanks very much for the update.

      Sadly, the issue of fees payed by circuits to FOM to host a GP is a long-running problem that has forced out countless venues over the years. Go back to the Long Beach days, when Chris Pook told Bernie he’d give up the F1 contract and bring in an IndyCar race if the price kept going up. Bernie just laughed it off…..and today Long Beach remains a fixture on the IndyCar series schedule.

  11. phil c said on 13th June 2009, 1:17

    one question i like answered. If the FOTA teams leave, where does this leave f1. We might have 10 no names teams on the grid, but will the new teams be able to compete. yes we will have 10 teams with cosworth engines. (unrealiable and under powered i might ad) but can they build an f1 car. Williams wont have a toyota engine or gear box. Toyota dont have to supply them with anything, if toyota are not in f1. So do you seriously expect these f1 teams to develop a gear box and a car up to f1 saftey standards, which will be competetive. The only person this benifits is Force India and Williams. They have all the technological know how, all the other cars will be lapping 3 sec off the pace. Wind tunnells, racing jigs, high tec computers are not developed over night, this is what current teams have. Current teams have systems in place to design cars, people who interpret regs. This will bring f1 back to the stoneage and make it a spec series. FOTA start your own championship, i know i would rather watch the FOTA teams race within 1/2 a second of each other with alonso, vettell, hamilton, etc etc then f1 with one engine spec series and drivers i dont recongnise. F1 will become a place where second rate drivers race.

    Max is not only ruining the sport he is ruining the history and what f1 stands for.

  12. Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 13th June 2009, 2:01

    Thanks for all your comments guys – I’ve read them all and although I haven’t got time to reply to all of them they helped my thinking when I was writing up my reaction to the story, which is here:

    FIA and FOTA remain deadlocked on F1 governance and budget cap

  13. scunnyman said on 13th June 2009, 7:30

    I can’t help but think there have been a few large brown envelopes full of gren stuff being handed around among a couple of the newcomersto members of a certain regulatory body.

    Though as far as Manor Racing is concerned maybe i should be backing them. Apparently they are based in Dinnington, which is not too far from Scunthorpe, which is where i grew up. I now live in Phoenix arizona.

  14. FLIG said on 13th June 2009, 12:36

    I just don’t get it. People are ALWAYS complaining about how F1 is not about drivers anymore, it’s all about the car and la la la. Now they want to cut costs and make it possible for smaller teams to level up with bigger teams and have like 26 drivers battling like crazy and all I hear is “boo-hoo, the red car won’t be there next year, i won’t watch it anymore”. Give me a break. “Oh, these guys shouldn’t go into F1 because these other guys have more money than they do”. What the hell? I want to see Eddie Jordans and Peter Saubers out there, making the best with little money and a lot of passion, intelligence and picking fast drivers, I want to see Johnny Herberts winning on a Stewart, unknown Alonsos giving driving lessons on a rainy day with an Arrows/Minardi. Who the hell cares about Ferrari/McLaren? All teams go up and down, F1 doesn’t need to hold back just because a couple of idiots want to keep winning just cause they are richer than the rest. Then regulations change and all their money is wasted, because you get a Brawn move that kicks everyone’s ass with little money. That’s what they’re trying to avoid.

    • al_amana said on 13th June 2009, 13:15

      I’n sorry to rain on your epiphany FLIG but Brawn hardly made a ” move that kicks everyone’s ass with little money”. We all know that the mastermind that is Ross Brawn simply bought a package off Honda, that he had been working on himself, at a bargain price and manufactured himself and Jenson a championship. If Brawn was forced to start from scratch and had to compete under this seasons regulations they would more like Force India or maybe Toro Rosso.
      You could even go so far as to say that Ross Brawn had a hand in Honda’s demise!? As for your claim that F1 fans don’t care about Ferrari etc……all I have for you is WOW!

  15. Mike 17 said on 21st June 2009, 17:24

    If there is a breakaway series in 2010…its almost impossible for the 8 fota members to create one…..
    1.Ferrari has a contract that they will compete till 2011 with Formula One
    2.Renault has a high chance of being out of f1-”fota”gp nxt year due to slump of sales.
    3.A short period of time to hire tracks,staffs,sponsors,popularity,commercial rights(which might take more than a year)etc…Estimated Costs:Nearly a billion….Does FOTA has that?
    4.Can FOTA would be able to stay united if they started a breakaway series where they made the rules themselves?
    5.FIA to take the 8 teams to court due to the Concorde Agreement..
    From my view of point it to me already looks like Mosley have and might indeed have done battle with FOTA.well things are looking up now for FOTA but the end for Max Mosley.

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