No split, no budget cap – and no Max Mosley. A victory for FOTA and F1?

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

The eight FOTA teams will be in F1 next year - but Max Mosley won't
The eight FOTA teams will be in F1 next year - but Max Mosley won't

I wasn’t expecting F1’s long-standing row to be resolved today any more than I had on the many other ‘deadline days’ which have come and passed with no resolution.

But the decision from the World Motor Sports Council came remarkably swiftly: next year’s F1 championship will be run to rules broadly similar to this year. Max Mosley’s effort to impose a budget cap on the teams has failed – and he has agreed not to stand for re-election in October.

“Everyone’s won” said Mosley afterwards. But is this really anything other than a victory for FOTA – and the ultimate defeat of Mosley?

Is this outcome good for F1?

  • Yes, it's good for F1 (77%)
  • No, it's bad for F1 (5%)
  • It's neither good or bad for F1 (7%)
  • I'm not sure (10%)

Total Voters: 1,927

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In the run-up to today’s meeting, Mosley reminded the WMSC:

It is for the FIA membership, and the FIA membership alone, to decide on the democratically elected leadership, not the motor industry and still less the individuals the industry employs to run its F1 teams.

Mosley is now insisting his departure was planned all along. But if that were the case, presumaly he could have ended this dispute rather sooner. He has not granted any other new concession today which could have moved the teams to abandon their plans for a rival championship.

The deal was apparently thrashed out between Mosley, Bernie Ecclestone and Luca di Montezemolo (representing FOTA) late last night. Was this the moment Mosley finally saw the writing on the wall, and chose not to remain as president of a governing body in charge of what would have been a fatally weakened F1?

Of course, it wouldn’t be Mosley without a parting shot:

As long as the teams behave themselves I will be gone. A deal is a deal and if that is not stuck to you sometimes have to reconsider things.

Or two:

Whether the person who succeeds me will be more to their liking remains to be seen.

Montezemolo added:

To us, three things were most important; that F1 stay F1 and not become F3, that there is no dictator, but that there was a choice of rules, agreed and not imposed; and that whoever had a team was consulted and had a voice. Mosley has announced that in October he will stand down, with an irrevocale decision, and that from now on he won’t get involved in F1.

This is a good day for Formula 1. A potentially disastrous split in the sport has been averted. The removal of Mosley opens the way for a more productive and less hostile co-operation between the teams and the sports’ governing body.

It is a victory for FOTA. But above all, a victory for Formula 1.

I’m going to be on Sky News discussing the developments between 7pm and 7.30pm this evening.

148 comments on “No split, no budget cap – and no Max Mosley. A victory for FOTA and F1?”

  1. hot and cold
    24th June 2009, 18:58

    Shame, I was really looking forward to FOTA’s racing series. I am loyal to good racing, not the F1 brand name, and it seemed that a revolution was long overdue but hopefully Mosley’ ouster helps F1 become what it once was.

    1. This is bad. Max is only a third of the problem. The other two thirds are the FIA and Bernie. Bernie is still making things too expensive and restrictive, and sucking all the money out of poor circuits while destroying classics.

      1. bernie should be next, too greedy for f1 at the expense of fans

    2. I read that Mosley said he was not standing for re-election last year, and he was only going to stay if the issues could not be resolved, so I hardly think he was ‘ousted’ For F1 to return to good racing it is essential that no teams are allowed to have technical vetoes, or any other vetoes over the others, it is also essential that the money distribution becomes more transparent, everyone has a fair share. F1 will have to reduce to the costs of the early 90’s by 2012, so a budget of around 80-100mil, one or two of the best financed teams had in excess of 400mil last year, so still a huge drop. Williams are already running at these lower levels, and producing a good car to regs that appear to be agreed for a couple of years. I would say that the outcome of the negotiations is where each party were aiming for originally, in fact Fota will have to maintain their unity, something they have not been successful at in the past, because the next time a line is drawn in the sand, they may not be allowed to back out so gracefully.

    3. F1 with budget cap its become F1 nd, F1 mean 1st in tech ,U know Hi tech with no money ist 2nd tech, F1 no meaning with limitation like budget cap,,,,

  2. Of course, good to hear… but, don’t trust him, he is not a man of his word. :)

  3. I would be very interested in a pole in 2 parts should you care to run it. Part one
    1: are you pleased with the outcome of the Paris meeting
    caught in the middle:
    2: Have the fans benefitted from this outcome?
    it remains to be see:

    1. I agree… a poll on whether today’s events are good for the sport would be quite interesting.

    2. Good idea – I’ve added a poll along the lines you suggested.

      1. I’m sorry Keith, it sounds to me like you’re towing the ‘party’ line here.

        Whilst it might be good to have come to some sort of tacit agreement between the FIA and FOTA over this, so that everyone can focus on 2010, it can hardly be described as a “victory for F1”. As others have pointed out on this post, we could have had a series next year that really made a difference, with the potential for the re-instatement of some classic tracks, as well as the removal of Bernie Ecclestone. He looked genuinely worried over the British GP weekend at the prospect of the rug being pulled from under him, in terms of his ability to watch Ferrari, McLaren et al racing in whatever bland auto-drome he decided upon racing in.

        Now it would appear that we are back to square one.

      2. I voted the poll that it was good for F1. Which it was. Good for F1,yes, not necessarily for the sport or the fans, but good for F1.

        I believe other outcomes may have been better for the fans and the teams, but we shall see, I suppose.

  4. “Everyone’s won” said Mosley afterwards….

    For once I agree with him, “everyone” has won, the fans no longer have to put up with his disruptive leadership anymore. Yep, everyone is a winner.

    Mosley behaved as if he owned the sport & could rule as he saw fit, the sport NEVER belonged to him. Even Balestre, as quirky as he was, never treated the sport & fans with the contempt displayed by old Spanky.

    Ron at McLaren (love him or not) must feel some sense of vindication for being the target of Mosley’s power trips over the years.

    Oh..& Max, dont let the door hit you on the way out.

  5. I’m confused who can help. I’m trying to find the actual rules for next year. You say the rules remain the same as 2009 but the FIA had already agreed with the teams (unoffically) the following points;
    1. No in race refueling
    2. Low fuel qualifying (filled after Q3)
    3. Increased weight 620kg
    The FIA has already agreed to drop the following 2010 rules
    1. Tyre heaters
    2. KERS at the higher yield rate is optional not compulsory
    I understand the budget cap has all but gone away but what about the unrestricted Cosworth engine?

    1. According to the FIA’s press release:

      There will be no alternative series or championship and the rules for 2010 onwards will be the 2009 regulations as well as further regulations agreed prior to 29 April 2009.

      Among the items agreed on the 30 April meeting were the budget cap, ban on refuelling during races and the ban on tyre warmers.

      I suspect it means that, as the budget cap is going, so too will refuelling (boo!) and tyre warmers will remains (boo again!) But perhaps the latter two changes will be kept for cost-cutting reasons. We’ll find out when the official 2010 regulations are finally published.

      Of course, banning refuelling also meant we were to get proper qualifying back next year as well. It would be a shame to lose that too.

      1. The refuelling and tyre warmers are among the negatives that made me vote “not sure”. Added to that is that Mosley has promised to resign many times, only to renege on the deal…

        .. and this still leaves Bernie and CVC milking the teams. The little man must be gloating — he managed to play “good cop” and kept his money.

      2. I’m thrilled it looks like refuelling will stay. Tyre warmers and race fuel quali not so much.

        I sure hope they’ve made Max sign a watertight document ensuring he won’t stand for re-election. We’ve heard that before haven’t we?

        Gotta give him credit for suggesting he’ll stay on for another term (whether he meant it or not) – it gave him a bargaining chip from nothing – Now it seems not standing for re-election was a concession on his part, when it was always the plan.

        Look at him, he could do with some time off. He’s been through a lot lately, but i find it so hard to sympathise….

      3. Keith,

        I think FOTA are supporting the ban on refuelling and tyre warmers, its a good cost reduction for them, they may as well swing a deal with the FIA at a later time.

        I honestly don’t mind re-fueling, I like the strategic approach with fuel levels. If refueling is kept, then FOTA should nego proper qualifying, where the who “race fuel” scenario is removed. They should keep the current Q1, Q2, Q3 format as the final shootout is very interesting, but the fastest car should always be on pole, that will remove the “who’s heavier? debate”

        Tyre warmers is one thing I never liked. The drivers should get the required heat in to their tyres themselves, it will be a proper test for them.

        The only other downside to this is that,F1 will be racing less on the continental classic circuits and of course, the prices aren’t going to come down either. As long as Bernie is alive and kicking, I guess the sport will trudge along as he wishes.

        All in all, I’m quite relived.

    2. Interesting points there.

      The minimum weight was increased to 620kg to encourage KERS, which one can now safely say, was a failed concept. Now, what will happen to this weight ruling? Will it impose the weight to be in ratio to the driver’s weight?

      Also, Cosworth engines running with unrestricted revs would handicap the other teams, and with engine development frozen, this will cause a dispute. I hope that by the time the current economic crisis finishes, they’ll be racing V10’s again with unrestricted revs. Something environmentally friendly will go down well with everyone to aid this.

      1. cosworth’s with unrestricted revs equals…Boom

  6. I think there’s a very strong chance that Mosley’s not going anywhere, as seen from his parting comments.

    This is just prolonging the agony for me – the FOTA series would have been great because for one, Silverstone remained on the calendar, Bernie was gone, many Tilke circuits would be dropped, and ticket prices would have almost certainly been lowered due to Bernie’s power and greed being removed.

    Sorry to be a pesimist, but I just don’t feel like jumping for joy.

    1. I think many people declared the new series a second coming and a best thing ever based solely on a press release and a calendar made up in 5 minutes (several dates for races fell in the middle of the week!). As much as people got excited the new series was allways a pie in the sky and realisticly it was never more then a barganing chip for FOTA.

      1. It wouldn’t have been a useful bargaining chip had it not been a realistic prospect.
        No one wanted a break away series, but I don’t think the Mosely thought for one minute that the teams did not have the wherewithal to execute their threat successfully.

    2. I’m with you on this John H…I think it is great the series is not splitting but,I was looking forward to a new series that catered more to the fans.Of course Bernie and Max saw finally saw this wasn’t a bluff and knew they had to keep their truck loads of cash coming in.Max may sound SEMI-humble now but,just you wait….he isn’t going anywhere until he has milked every last drop he can out of F1 and take it the sport down with him just for spite.

  7. It is a good news for Formula 1 – it doesn’t matter who won – everybody would have lost has the split proceeded. I’m not so sure either what the technical rules are but I must say I’m happy to see Mosley leave – let him be remembered as a president who greatly improved safety in racing instead of being the guy who destroyed it…

    1. it doesn’t matter who won – everybody would have lost has the split proceeded.

      Hear, hear!

  8. You have to believe, stated or not, that FOTA is now the big dog of F1. Certainly not Max…and Bernie’s power is now quite a bit less than it was.

    1. I agree, and if the teams manage to held together now this big crisis is averted I hope they can continue to do so in the future as well. United teams is a great power but we’ll see will the egos get in a way…

  9. It’s good that Max is leaving and the F1 is staying together, but I was really looking forward to the break-away series. I was hoping the teams would get some technical freedom back.

  10. No Budget cap? I thought there was going to be one?

  11. But anyway its very good that the split hasn’t happened and that there has been no budget cap!

    1. There will be a budget cap, but it will be ”sliding” as FOTA requested, no exact figures are given yet though, they just stated that the goal of the cap is to get the budgets on level as they were in the early nineties…

      1. On the budget cap thing, to quote the FIA press release again:

        There will be no alternative series or championship and the rules for 2010 onwards will be the 2009 regulations as well as further regulations agreed prior to 29 April 2009.

        It was the F1 Sporting Regulations for 2010 published on 30 April 2009 that first introduced the proposed ‘budget cap’ regulations. They are highlighted in the document:$FILE/1-2010%20F1%20SPORTING%20REGULATIONS%2006-05-2009.pdf

        Therefore, I take it to mean the regulations will be those agreed prior to April 30, and therefore not including a budget cap. Other news stories describe the budget cap as being “scrapped”.

        1. I think this part of the official statement says that there will be a sliding budget cap… Or at least a budget cap in 2011…

          As part of this agreement, the teams will, within two years, reduce the costs of competing in the championship to the level of the early 1990s.

          1. The phrase used in the WMSC document was “As part of this agreement, the teams will, within two years, reduce the costs of competing in the championship to the level of the early 1990s.”, gabal.
            Cost reductions but no cap.

          2. Well, we will have to see how will the budgets be reduced. I hope it won’t just be standardisation of the parts but we will be smarter tomorow after FOTA’s press release. Untill then all we can do is speculate based on press statement that is deliberately vague.

  12. KingHamilton&co
    24th June 2009, 19:48

    although the row seems to be settled and F1 looks to be going the way it should be, i cant help but feel looking at the entry list that red bull shouldnt have 2 teams and that toro rosso are a waste of entry-red bull shouldnt be allowed 2 teams and someone should buy toro rosso out.

    1. Good point. Toro Rosso appears to be an investment rather than a race team. I reckon they’ll wait until a spot in Formula 1 becomes worth more (i.e. When there’s no more slots on the grid, and there’s many teams eager to join F1) and sell it for maximum profit.

      Maybe they learnt from last year, and this year they aim to keep Toro Rosso out of RBR’s way, and keep them off the back of the grid so it doesn’t cheapen the brand.

    2. If anyone came to Red Bull with the right money, it would be sold tomorrow.

      Toro Rosso has to become a constructor in its own right new season, no more customer cars, so I would suggest that it will be sold in the near future (i.e. next 12 months).

      If Lola or Prodrive were serious about entering F1, this is their avenue…

  13. Come on, the whole thing was just one big PR exercise to keep F1 on the front pages in a season that is to the average punter extremely tedious.

    I said the same thing about Silverstone several months ago and hey presto, as if by magic it isn’t actually in danger of being dropped.

    I don’t for one second believe any of the rubbish that F1 was on the brink etc.

    Absolute toss…

    1. But Silverstone is being dropped either next year or in 2011 depending on Donington progress.

      1. Yes but it’s gone from ‘not until hell freezes over’ to ‘of course’ should other facilities not be available…

  14. F1 Outsider
    24th June 2009, 20:05

    I think FOTA will want see something in writing guaranteeing Mosley’s departure by tomorrow before they make it official.

    I second Del Boy’s concerns…
    Will there still be refueling in 2010? I hope not. Everyone seemed to think racing was better when there wasn’t any. I for one can’t remember that far back.

    1. No, not everyone wants to see refuelling scrapped.

      Why don’t we have a poll on this?

      1. Maurice Henry
        25th June 2009, 0:27

        Hear, hear!

        F1 Outsider – I can remember that far back and a number of the races were as dull dishwater. Read Murray Walker’s comments in last month’s F1 Racing. Even he is worried that there will be a lack of strategy and excitement without refuelling. Those who want a ban had better realise that in the end some bright spark will work out how to preserve their tyres best and do races on one stop. Back then the best car was the best car whether it was on full, half or low fuel. The Turkish and British GPs are great examples of how dull some of those races were.

        1. the races are “as dull as dishwater” anyway, so without refuelling, at least it’s greener/cheaper. i remember F1 without refuelling as pretty exciting. It puts much more emphasis on driver skill. Remember Keke Rosberg?

      2. I agree manatcna. I want to keep refuelling.

        I suspect a refuelling poll on this site would produce a skewed result. Keith is a strong advocate for no refuelling (you may have noticed ;)).

        The poll question could well read “Formula 1 will be better without refuelling. But by how much?
        – A lot
        – A great deal
        – Significantly”

        Peace. :)

        1. ILoveVettel
          25th June 2009, 4:01

          LOL on Ace… But jokes apart, I agree with the theme :)

        2. No refuelling was all about cost cutting. There would be no reason to take all the equipment & the refuellers to each race.

          From FOTA`s survey:

          5. Evolution of pit stops and refuelling

          All audiences view pit stops as integral to their enjoyment of grand prix coverage; however, they rank the most important and compelling aspect of pit stops as tyre changing rather than refuelling. Race strategies were not highly ranked as a determinant of interest in Formula One.

          Implication: audiences are unlikely to diminish if refuelling is discontinued. Tyre changing is an important driver of audience interest (in pit stops) and should not be further automated.


          ▪ 17 countries surveyed
          ▪ First ever poll of Formula One devotees alongside non-Formula One devotees (ie, marginal and/or low interest fans)
          ▪ Responses were weighted according to the size of viewing market in each country (to avoid small markets skewing the results)
          ▪ Results were segmented by interest level in Formula One, demographic profiles (age and gender), country and region

          ▪ Total audience is comprised of:
          – Regular fans (25% by volume, predominantly male, cross section of ages)
          – Moderate fans (44% by volume, female and male, cross section of ages)
          – Infrequent fans (31% by volume, unlikely to watch grands prix, predominantly female, cross section of ages)

      3. Think guys:
        no refuelling = shorter races.
        IMHO they are too short as they are now!

        And we’d be deprived of priceless scenes like Massa’s pit stop in Singapore 08 :-)

        Today’s F1 cars are soo close already. Removing the fuel strategies will make them even more homogenised ==> fewer scraps and overtakings. Then racing strategies are down to the tyres only!

        Hope they drop the tyre heaters.

        Poll would be interesting! (Notice that F1fanatic and other polls were read by FOTA as well as by the FIA and had some influence in the breakaway poker :-)

  15. Gianecchini
    24th June 2009, 20:10

    This makes me confused….

    James Allen on itv-f1-com…
    ” Max Mosley will not seek re-election in October when his current term expires.

    In the meantime he has relinquished his position as the main contact man at the FIA for F1.
    Instead the FIA Senate will deal with any issues in F1.

    Mosley is a member of the Senate and, under FIA rules,
    he will remain a member in future as an ex-president.

    There is a sense here that if this deal were to fall through then
    Mosley would be on hand to take up the FIA’s side again.

    Meanwhile there will be an election for a new FIA president in due course.”

    I dont belive in MM,BE and LM…shady business…:/

    1. agreed!

  16. Now all they’ve got to do is get rid of Bernie, and then Catalunya, Hungaroring, Bahrain, China, Malaysia, Valencia, Korea, and possibly Turkey, replace them with classic tracks, and they’ll have a winner.

    1. Yeah, bring back Crystal Palace! Unfortunately, the current one probably isn’t up to F1 standard as it’s less than half a kilometre long.

    2. I find interesting that you are wanting to get rid of a track that is not even built yet. Why not India then?

      While I am not in favor of a Tilke-dominated calendar, for F1 to call itself a world championship, it needs to race on tracks all around the world. Not just in Europe with a stop in Australia or Brazil.

    3. Now all they’ve got to do is get rid of Bernie, and then Catalunya, Hungaroring, Bahrain, China, Malaysia, Valencia, Korea, and possibly Turkey, replace them with classic tracks, and they’ll have a winner

      All this could have been achieved in one sweep when the FOTA would have stayed course!

      I am very sorry that we are back to the same old SAMEOLD.

      I can’t believe that the poll shows 78% finding this outcome as “good for F1”.

      Maybe the question was posed ambiguously:
      if we’d asked: to you think this outcome is the best for an optimal pinnacle series (whatever its name would be), the poll might be looking different!

      I for one, DO NOT think this is a desireable outcome for an optimal flagship series.

      I am NOT pessimistic on the feasibilty of a breakaway series. The Indy example is NOT a precursor and proof of likely failure – the circumstances and the details of the Indy breakup were completely different. NASCAR just offered a better spectacle than any of the split Indy series at the time. NASCAR copied the showmanship of the US wrestling series and won the competition for audience fair and square! (BTW, I’m no NASCAR fan – big yawn, but the US motorsport fans dig it! – likely the same crowd that digs the US wrestling series …)

      Anyway – what a lost chance for correcting the excesses that got entrenched in F1 over the years. What a lost opportunity for building a true flagship series with governance of reason & sanity by the people concerned (teams, manufacturers, fans and sponsors).

  17. Whilst glad the war is over, I can’t help but be disappointed that FOTA have got back in bed with Bernie and CVC. One of FOTA’s most powerful arguments was that it wanted to bring the sport back to the fans but this seems to have been forgotten. Bernie and CVC are the principle reason F1 doesn’t race in the US, charges a fortune for grand prix tickets and insists on visiting empty far eastern graveyards.

    I hope FOTA have not forgotten the fans and have some interesting things to say about the long term future of formula one tomorrow

  18. Bartholomew
    24th June 2009, 20:31

    CVC won !!!

    the same b.s. next year : KERS in Saudi Arabia and North Korea

  19. If Max does go the new appointment is crucial. We don’t want a dictator like Max, but also we don’t want a puppet of the teams.

    A new leader needs to be strong, make the necessary changes to F1 but also govern and make sure the teams stick to the rules.

    This means swift and absolute decisions on technical matters, swift and absolute decisions on racing incidents and to take on board what the teams and fans want from F1 rather than what he thinks they want.

    1. And that’s exactly the reason why I see this compromise and the departure of Mosley as a bad thing.

      The pessimist and misanthropist that I am highly doubts that Mosley’s replacement won’t be a FOTA puppet.

      To be a good FIA president, this new person will have to have guts to go against the FOTA despite the breakaway threats which the manufacturers will use as a weapon now to manipulate any new FIA leader. Furthermore he or she simply has to force the started cost-cutting measures forward even if met with heavy resistance.

      As of now, I can’t think of anybody able to do that … but let’s wait and see.

  20. I’m glad Max is out. Maybe some improvements to the FiA itself can be made with this, not just F1.

    Mosley may have wanted the best for F1, but he did everything the wrong way.

  21. I think this may ultimately precipitate other big changes.
    Mind you, never trust a Moseley as my mother should have said, especially when they’re making “peace in our time” statements :o)
    The sun will soon be setting on the Bernie era I reckon. Shame in one way, he is funny.

  22. couldn’t silverstone try to host the ‘English Grand Prix’ and both tracks will be happy?

    1. Or even better: the San Marino model. Maybe the Jersey Grand Prix. Isle of Man wouldn’t work because there’s already a bike race there that is actually held on the island itself.

    2. Just a thought, but why can’t every track on the calendar straddle two countries?

      That way up to 40 countries could be included in the world championship. :)

  23. Just rotate between Donington and Silverstone and be done with it already!
    The only thing that matters now is getting Bernie outta the sport!!!

  24. FOTA are meeting with the press tomorrow to give details of their proposals so more should become clear then.

  25. Keith,
    I can’t tell you how glad I am that you did this pole.
    There are two things I’d appreciate from you though.
    The first is that you run the second part of my proposed pole regarding whether we think the fans have benefitted from the decision today. The reason for my thinking this is important, is that I personally feel I’ve been played, since I’ve seen no comment regarding the fans interest in anything I’ve been able to find on the net today. As much as Ilove Formula 1, I feel like Formula 1 cares little for the fans unless it’s just to get something they want for themselves. And in the end, the fans pay for it allbut have no influence in how it operates year to year at all.
    Secondly, would it be impossible for your comments section to add spellcheck, even a British version might do.
    Thanks. Barry

    1. You’re welcome Barry. I just did one poll because I think it’s always better to keep these things simple!

      I don’t think I’ll add a spellchecker because they’re increasingly integrated into browsers these days, and the more stuff I add to the website the slower it runs. I don’t know what browser you prefer, but I use Firefox which has a spellchecker built-in.

      1. Safari, the web browser from apple also has a spell check, and it will run on windows or mac.

        1. Perhaps it’s my Firefox, but I’m getting a red underline on misspelled words, and a right click on the word gives you options.

          Sounds like a spell checker to me :)

          1. Oh, I wish I’d read your post properly Keith

    2. Get a life Barry

  26. The fascist regime had to end at some point in time. now that it has, we can really look ahead into the future with great hope. this is the best thing that could have happened to formula one. i know for a fact that max mosley is leaving halfheartedly. but things can change, you never know until the next new president is elected. hope max keeps up his word, i strongly suspect he’ll not.

    quote from the bbc article

    “it is not the first time Mosley has promised to stand down as FIA president – in June 2004, he announced he would stand down from his position in October of that year, only to rescind his decision a month later and secure re-election.”

    so you never know.

    i think we ought to wait until its really “OFFICIAL”, that mosley will not be contesting the election. who knows, max might threaten his opponents or even bribe them to not contest the election & again get re-elected. He’s after all done that in the past, so there is no reason why he’ll not do it again. i hope he sticks to his word & steps down with whatever little remaining dignity he’s got. If there’s one person i’ll not trust, it’ll have to be MAX OSWALD MOSLEY.

  27. Since when has Mosley been a man of his word? What’s to stop him from running again? All we have is a verbal agreement. And I think this is terrible. Formula 1 is just a shadow of its former self, and FOTA’s new series seemed to be the thing that would fix that. Now with that gone, we’re still stuck with pathetic, boring circuits like Sepang, Shanghai, Sakhir, Turkey, Valencia, Barcelona, Hungaroring (except this has had some nice races), Singapore. At the expense of places like Montreal! Ergh, why why why. We were all getting so excited about FOTA’s series :'(

    1. If I were FOTA I would have asked for some kind of a guarantee…

  28. I can’t help but be skeptical; Yes, this is a great day for Formula 1, but this isn’t the first time Max has said he will step down. It’s a long time until October.

  29. There is an interesting article on that has some unofficial information about the deal:

    There are still other problems that need to be solved, not least the future commercial deal after 2012. We hear that there was some talk about this in the settlement that was agreed and it seems that Ecclestone has made some concessions with more income for the teams, but it remains to be seen how this will turn out in the end.

    There is believed to be some compromise for the new teams with the Cosworth engine users being allowed 20,000rpm for one year, although this is yet to be confirmed.

    There are many rumours suggesting that the next president of the FIA will be Jean Todt, who was Max Mosley’s chosen successor. This is really down to the FIA clubs to decide but there is no doubt that many of the teams are opposed to the idea.

    It is anticipated that FOTA will remain together in the years ahead and will continue to work towards creating a better sport. It is also expected that Williams, Force India and the three new teams will be given the opportunity to become part of the organisation once again.

  30. Keith
    The teams must stay together. Clearly Mosley’s dreams of glory were punctured by CVC lawyers and he must retire defeated.

    Bernie will now believe that skills won this result was his doing but there must be a huge black mark against him in the CVC books for putting the money stupidly at risk.

    It was always a case of when does the money speak out.

    1. Yes Bernie Ecclestone will not just be thinking his skills won the day, But he’ll be boasting about it for years.
      It doesn’t help when the lies of Eddie Jordan asked Bernie to sort it.
      I eargerly await news of exactly what is going to happen in the next few weeks , months and years.
      And yes, i feel we the fans have been left out in the cold on this.
      I believe we all wanted a more open transpararent fairer run Formula One with lower ticket prices, lower circuit charges so they could possibly make a profit, a chance to get America and Canada back on the calendar. A fairer share of formula one’s profits to the teams.
      Regulations that promote better racing, and a simpler easier to understand run penalty system which is consistent.

      I believe the breakaway may have given us most of these points. But i have my doubts we’ll even get close with F1 even without Mosley.
      Is FOTA and FIA going to listen to the wishes of the fans now.

      1. Yes this is a sad day. We could have rid ourselves of 2 of the worst figures in F1, and started a new series that cared about the tracks and the fans.
        What we got was the status quo with Max lying to us again, and Bernie brokering the lie. Luca, I have lost all faith in you and your words.
        I guess F1 will be a little less important to me as time goes on….

      2. I second all you said.

  31. There will be no Budget cap implemented in the rules, but FOTA will reduce costs significantly…to the level of the early nineties, when the budgets of the top teams were – incidentally – around 30 to 50 million pounds…I simply have to admire Max Mosley for this…without this whole Budget cap idea, FOTA would propably never have thought about reducing the costs that much. If it stays that way, the manufacturers might see that they can’t build a competitive car with that and they might leave over it, making room for new, independent teams to which they can supply their engines. And in the long term, one has to wonder who really has won this war…

    1. Max may end up getting what he wanted, but he went about it in the wrong way. The end does not justify the means.

      Anyway, if the teams spend 30-50 million back in the nineties, you have to adjust for inflation, so 30-50m then would be more like 50-70m now I would think

  32. Well then, the WMSC did see sense and ditch Mosley. A victory for common sense.

    Lets hope next that Bernie accepts that after 2012 the game is up and agrees to take much less money and give more to the teams.

    In the meantime FOTA and the FIA should both put pressure on him to reinstate the tracks he has bled dry like Montreal, Indianapolis, Hockenheim, Magny Cours and Silverstone, not to mention the FIA should adopt FOTA’s proposed point’s system.

  33. During the News of the World fiasco, Max said that he was not going to run for re-election this October. This is just him keeping his promise from earlier.

    As to the result, I think this is good for F1. Not the best that could have happened for it, but far superior to there being two rival series. I think what is going to be crucial in all of this is what shape the new Concorde Agreement takes. The way I understand the old one, rules were agreed on by a committee made up of the FIA, FOM, and representative of the teams with input from track owners. If we can return to that style of government, I think we can have at least a few years without rules squabbles that use the old strategy of mutually assured destruction.

  34. Ferrari1607
    24th June 2009, 22:51

    Well mosley is leaving, score 1 for FOTA :)
    but bernie and CVC are still here :(
    i was looking foreward the FOTA series (there were 3 races in north America) 8(
    but no budget cap :)
    2009 rules next year :)

    20,000 rpm cosworth engines??? (good for USF1…. or USGPE, whatever)

    Ron Dennis for FIA President!!!!!!

    1. Ferrari1607
      25th June 2009, 0:18

      Or no FIA at all
      just FOTA

    2. Ron for FIA President??!

      No thanks.

    3. Ron Dennis for FIA President!!!!!!

      And Flavio Briatore for FOM/CVC boss ….

      1. At least it would bring back F1 to Canada and the U.S. ;)

  35. What was a typical early 1990’s budget? It isn’t conveniently £40m is it?

    1. What was a typical early 1990’s budget? It isn’t conveniently £40m is it?

      They were around that figure,yes.

      Everyone seems to have got what they wanted.Mosley got his new teams and budget cap (in all but name).The teams have stability and (hopefully) better governance.

      Everyones a winner,unless of course you really did have your heart set on a ‘breakaway’ series.

      1. Just remember that 40m pounds back then does not equate to 40m now. You have to factor in inflation, rises in labour costs and the cost of the ever changing technological resources required

        1. With 40m 1990 dollars you can build 1990-tech cars in 1990.
          Can’t build 2010-tech cars with 40m 2010 dollars in 2010 …

  36. Hi Keith
    Thanks for the links to the pre 29th April rule links. I guess now the split row has been settled we will all look forward to next years regulations.

    This may be a little off topic however I have some questions about KERS in the future.

    The teams have agreed to scrape KERS on the basis it costs too much, when what they really mean is the cost benefit analysis doesn’t add up. However the rules pre 29th April as set out by SWG, OWG and TWG allow KERS to generate 160bhp during 2011 and 320bhp during 2013 harvested from both axles. If you run these numbers your racing car will be about 3 – 4 seconds per lap faster and suddenly the cost or the weight won’t matter.

    1. Sush Meerkat
      24th June 2009, 23:19

      If you run these numbers your racing car will be about 3 – 4 seconds per lap faster and suddenly the cost or the weight won’t matter.

      then the tyres will blow.

      In order to have KERS with that power you need to have a tyre war.

      1. Are you sure about your numbers? The time limit for use of KERS still applys, right?

    2. The rules were written when KERS was still the stated goal for the future.

      For now KERS seems to turn into a dud. But my guess is that it will come back under a different name: “Hybrids/Green Engines” in the near future.

      1. KERS is having a ”birth” issues because it is so restricted by power output and storage capacity. They are so restrictive that Williams had to cap power output of their flywheel system from day one. Next year when the cap is raised to almost double levels it will be interesting to see will the KERS technology still be such a ”dud”.

      2. KERS was optional for 2009.
        I`d guess that as FOTA agreed to get shot of it (nothing but a waste of time & incredible amounts of money) they would opt not to run it in 2010.

  37. Rick DeNatale
    24th June 2009, 23:31

    Ding Dong, the witch is dead!

    I hope.

  38. theRoswellite
    24th June 2009, 23:38

    Rick DeNatale says:
    June 24, 2009 at 11:31 pm

    Ding Dong, the witch is dead!

    ……………the wicked witch!

    1. What r u guys talking about:

      the one-eyed, wrinkled, fake-blonde, little witch is still alive and kicking stronger than ever ….

  39. F1 Lives!

    What a great outcome, splitting the two up would have been a disaster, just look at the States and the Cart/IRL debacle!

    Glad to see that common sense has prevailed from both camps.

    But the best part? 13 teams to compete next year, 26 cars on the grid! Fantastic!

    1. …splitting the two up would have been a disaster,…

      How do you know that?

      F1 may live (till the next fallout) but the chance for a better and stronger series is dead!

      Long live F1!

      PS: The French revolution was a disaster, the American a success (seen from the US side).
      With revolutions you NEVER know! Indy got squashed by NASCAR, not by the breakup (IMHO).

      This FOTA rebellion could have been the seed to greater and better things for those with a vision.

      However, most people feel more comfy with the status quo. Comfy is nice, save and cosy….

  40. thank god, the codemasters game will be decent and my favourite drivers will be back in melbourne. now let’s get on with the racing.

  41. I wonder how long it will be until the next f1 controversy…

  42. So F1 fails to get its cost cuts, the teams stay as bloated lumps completely oblivious to the economic crisis around them and the wonderful variety of nice circuits old and new that had been mooted as potential F1.1 tracks go down the drain. And people call this a victory.

    F1 has been a mess for 15 years due to the decision making of the FIA, yet the teams sat tight. Finally, when their big fat pay checks got threatened, they rebelled. They pretended they wanted a glorious utopian new F1, but really they just wanted to maintain the status quo.

    So F1 stays at 2009 rules. Tell me exactly who is enjoying this season, apart from Button fans and those who like change at the top for the sake of change, despite the lack of any interesting races.

    The majority of people on this site say this is a good solution. So we all like the 2009 situation do we? Then why does everyone complain about how boring it is?

    I said all along this breakaway wouldn’t happen (I was comment #3 on the initial post on the breakaway, I think, saying “I believe this when I see it”.) But it it’s a big disappointment that it didn’t. But the biggest disappointment is that other fans prefer the current status quo than a return to F1 being an actual sport again.

    Does anyone know if IndyCar is good again yet?

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      25th June 2009, 8:10

      So F1 fails to get its cost cuts, the teams stay as bloated lumps completely oblivious to the economic crisis around them and the wonderful variety of nice circuits old and new that had been mooted as potential F1.1 tracks go down the drain. And people call this a victory.

      Those circuits were never going to be on the calendr. It was a fake, probably picked up by some journalist who didn’t check his source (or made it up himself) so that he could run with some new information that no-one else had.

      I’m amazed at the number of people who were stupid enough to believe it simply because it had what they wanted on it.

      1. @ Prisoner Monkeys

        And your reliable source is …?

      2. Well, yes, I know that list was made up. But there was the potential for that list to be true.

        My point is that a breakaway series had the potential to be great (even though it was obviously never going to happen). As did some of the FIA’s suggestions for next year. Sticking to 2009 rules – which has been a dull year – is the worst for everyone.

        1. The list was poorly conceived and was merely a list of venues without contract with FOM (and some with it) and it hasn’t even passed basic fact checking as some races fell in the middle of the week!

          Fans were used as barganing chip – we have yet to see does the final deal have any of the things that were promised to the fans…

  43. Thank God Max is gone now lets get rid of that $@%^ Bernie, and no Damian, Indy Car is NO GOOD, way over rated drivers and an over hyped up series.

  44. This sounds like a put up or shut up play on the manufacturers that were using events as an excuse to exit. The mfg teams and their paymasters may not exactly be at one. The most funded & spent dollar always wins issue and the inability for non manufacturer teams to compete or even get onto the grid on that basis is not resolved by what has been announced & must be resolved. That would be the basis of Mosely’s post agreement jibe. The new teams might get a year to ramp up by their sponsors but they will need results to stay in the sport and to get the money to be on the grid. The screws are especially on Brawn now to get sponsors at a sufficient level to fund a competitive on going post Honda money operation, if they can’t get one then what hope for the new teams in the medium term?

  45. Is there any word on reducing downforce? Many fans have said how they noticed the racing was much closer and exciting (cars were very loose) in the first few races of the year, before all the double diffusers came along. It seems it was much easier to over take early in the year than it is now. Webber was much faster than Barrichello at Silversone, but could not pass. I’m sure every F1 fan would be happy to see much more passing on the track?

    1. Simple idea:
      to make races more interesting, run them in 50:50 wet/dry conditions – with controlled sprinklers on parts of the track!

      Teams would have to take much more gambles with their setups, tyre choices and strategies and d there’d be much more overtaking opportunities and chances for the slower but more driveable cars. The skills of drivers would also be challenged much more!

      Everybody I know loves to watch the wet races …

      1. I think without a doubt most fans would say that wet races are the best to watch, am I right? I can’t remember the last time there was a boring wet race :-) lol!
        What happened to the good old days of all horsepower and no downforce? LOL

  46. Now that FOTA is staying with FIA until 2012 where does that leave us?
    1) FOTA gets to implement their version of “glide-path” cost reduction, and Max has to leave after the current term in office.
    2) Both Max and Bernie get to claim they are the smartest guys in the room for saving the F1 series from splitting apart.
    And…..what do the fans get?
    1) Well…..apparently we do not get the exciting sounding race schedule posted by FOTA only a couple days ago.
    2) Being an American in North America, apparently we get no GP in the forseeable future.

    While I can hope for the best, it sems like everybody gets a little something except the FANS!!
    Well, Well, business as usual says Bernie, nothing to see here, keep moving please.
    Hope I’m wrong.

  47. I voted yes, but id like to qualify it by saying that it depends on who replaces Max. if its someone who thinks and behaves like him, Max finally agreeing to not seek re-election (like his said last year) wont change much.

    The other thing is, whats going to happen to Prodrive, N Technology, Lola and Epsilon Euskadi? They were widely regarded as being stronger candidates than Campos and Manor to be the new teams and then thought to be back ups in case a split did happened because it would make Max look less bad by having strong teams enter. It would be a shame to lose them because they were being used as political pawns and maybe should be allowed to compete if they are still willing



    Now its time to get rid of Bernie,the other half of the trouble.

  49. This is a huge victory to FOTA, and a stark reminder to Ecclestone of the power of the teams when they pretty much agree universally on a subject.
    For years in F1, the teams had a limited voice when it concerned conflicts with Mosley and Ecclestone. They were all too busy fighting each other to confront the powers at be ‘as one’ and to make a difference. This is the key to the much awaited demise of Max Mosley’s career, in that teams like Ferrari and McLaren, Renault and Toyota, stood as one to bring him down.
    On the circuit, they are all the fierciest of rivals, but in their hatred of Mosley, they were one team! Ecclestone, deep down, must be sighing a sigh of relief, in the knowledge that the teams can always unite against him if they see fit.
    Despite all the pomp and blathering, Ecclestone does not have a racing series without the heavy hitting teams I have just mentioned. It is true that he has done
    serious damage to traditional F1 circuits and to the core European fanbase, making billions of dollars from new arenas overseas. Yet this is all achieved on the back of the teams, especially Ferrari.
    If they go, Ecclestone’s dream would be in tatters, and the billions of dollars a year the sport generates would be too. The decision to throw Mosley to the wolves was a no brainer.
    Ecclestone, the teams, and the FIA, knew what had to be done! I am not surprised, nor am I sad. Mosley spat in the faces of far too many people, and dragged the sports name through the mud for far too long.
    It is true that after the disastrous events of 1994 that Mosley did much to help the sport to become safer, with stronger cars and safer circuits, yet in recent years the damage he has inflicted has been almost fatal.
    In an enviroment inwhich everybody is cash strapped, the introduction of KERS only wasted the money saved on the teams not testing during the racing season. Yet another hairbrained scheme that has done nothing to add to the show, and has only wasted hundreds of millions of dollars the teams can ill afford.
    Get ready to welcome in Jean Todt as the new FIA president………

  50. No-one has won, what’s more important is that no-one has lost.

    And let’s face it, FOTAs breakaway series would never have worked in the timescale. As I’ve said throughout, FOTA are no heroes, just the other side in a pointless war.

  51. Well personaly, I feel like opening a bottle of chapagne and running a naked victoy lap around the block !! F1 will never die !!

  52. Christian Briddon
    25th June 2009, 7:06

    This is an excellent day for F1.

    I have to admit I have a tinge of dissappointment that there will not be a FOTA championship as better circuits (Silverstone) lower prices etc would have been excellent. I would also love to see the FIA and Ecclestone lose so much money. :-)

    Still, I know it would have been terrible for the sport so I am pleased it has work out.

    We have got rid of Mosley, now we just need to get rid of Ecclestone. I’d say the job was 50% done.

  53. I think F1 needs to tread carefully because at the start off the season with the diffuser row it wasn’t FOTA the resolved it it was the FIA and once the ruling came down , which took a long time , the teams had to accept it so if there was a breakaway series who’s decision would have been final ?.
    where would the championship be if the diffuser was deemed illegal ?.
    Bernie is a good front man for F1 but he should loosen the purse strings to aid the teams and the fans .

    1. The diffuser row was an opportunity for the FIA to say to the teams that they are not capable of making the rules.

      1. And I thought that was an opportunity to make the FIA look bad for settling the problem so late…

        1. The diffuser row was an opportunity for the FIA to say to the teams that they are not capable of making the rules.

          They didn’t, it was declared legal before the first race… it was the teams that continued to draw it out through appeal.

          1. Oops.. wrong quote…

            That was in reply to ChrisY…

            And I thought that was an opportunity to make the FIA look bad for settling the problem so late…

            Really need an edit function here.

        2. It was the FIA that decided it couldn’t address the issue until the first race.

          1. Yep, they ‘advised’ it was thought to be legal before the series but could not actual rule it legal or illegal until it had passed scrutineering – at the first race weekend.
            Just one example of how stupid some regulations can be.

  54. I think this is the best solution. although everyone is doubting Mosley’s departure method.

    he did state last year after the scandal broke that he wont be standing for re election. he changed his mind, and i think that was the last straw for FOTA. I think Mosley put his tenure on the line for bargaining, moving FOTA’s request from empeaching him to just not wanting him to run again.. he knew these guys hate him to the end and they want him out he wanted it to exit from the best door rather than be washed out. would be interested to see who comes next… Todt? Prost? I’m for an FIA president with considerable motor sport experience. and i think Todt will do very well

    1. Its unlike Mosley to leave voluntarily, I strongly suspect, he was told in no uncertain terms, that his show had been canceled.

  55. One more thing…

    after this cataclysmic shake up, will FOTA now pressure Bernie and FIA in reducing costs on the circuits in order to be able to let more fans access at cheaper prices? or is it only about the amount of money FOTA gets from the coffers of F1?

    like i said yesterday, we the fans wont gain much from this we would of even lost a lot if they were to split….

  56. Disappointing result. In my opinion they got nothing. The only remarkable thing is they have Mosley’s word (how can you trust him?) that he won’t be there for a reelection, something that he already was planning before the FOTA BS.
    And as Max says, the successor could be even worse.
    They won’t be getting more money, and they can’t threat with another FOTA BS cos Bernie will laugh at his face. And I won’t be able to go to see F1 because I can’t afford paying 250 euros for a piece of grass to sit on.

    For me it’s the beginning of the end of F1.

  57. HounslowBusGarage
    25th June 2009, 9:02

    I think I probably agree with aa and Leaf on the previous page, in that I’m not sure anything has improved at all.
    Max had already said he was going in October, and only recently changed his mind as a bargaining position against FOTA.
    CVC via Bernie still takes an extortionate amount of money from the hosting circuits and by selling TV rights (which it needs to service the debt). Bernie will tighten his grip on host tracks and media that will pay most – he has to – so the classic European tracks and free-to-air media will be edged out.
    The FIA will appoint a new President, while Max will go to the Senate. Who will that new President be? Jean Todt?
    FOTA is clustered around Ferrari and Luca Di M will wield increasing influence over their policy.
    So, at the end of this season we could have a Ferrari-dominated set of teams, a Ferrari-centred FIA President and a commercial rights owner even more dedicated to venue control and repression of free media.
    I don’t think that’s progress.

    1. Max didn’t recently change his mind, all year he had been talking of pressure for him to seek another term, but he’d make up his mind in June. Unfortunately the pressure on him not to run was far greater than his usual scheming antics. :-)

  58. We should not forget that Mosley has not been kicked out of the FIA (even when he relinquishes the Presidency he will still be a member of the Senate),and so he still has the option of running for another term should things not go as planned between now and October.

    Also: I would imagine that there will be some seriously p****d off FOTA ‘hardliners’ around today.LOL

  59. what about the new teams :'( some where on a contract that they will join aslong as the budget cap stays in place

  60. It is good for F1 on the face of it but we will have to wait for all the details to come out to make a final decision, and it still leaves a few issues in F1 that need addressing in my view.

    Although Mosley has said he will not stand for re-election he is still in power until October and of course we don’t know who will replace him, I also wouldn’t be surprised if Mosley manages to retain some influence in the FIA even if it is just by helping his preferred candidate to replace him. I hope we get a change to the structure of F1 rule making and governance so something like this is less likely in the future.

    Mosley said the objective was to reduce budgets to early 1990s levels, as it is only an objective there will be no firm commitments to achieve this so I wonder if it was just put in to try and save face for Mosley or if they have some actual plans on how to get to those budget levels.

    I also think that if the total budget is reduced to early 1990s levels it will be too low unless they exclude some things like driver salaries and engines, as was the plan under the budget cap, as it ignores general inflation and the fact that cutting edge technology will probably cost relatively more than it did 20 years ago.

    The problems that still remain are the ones that the FIA have ignored throughout this crisis such as the rest of F1’s finances not just the teams spending, the issue of F1 abandoning traditional venues and countries like North America to go to new empty circuits. Also because of the high fees Bernie charges even though fans are often priced out due to the ticket prices circuits still make a loss.

    Of course this is down to the massive debts CVC ran up to buy the rights off Bernie and I doubt that anything will be done to address this.

  61. I’m interested in how the drivers must be taking it.

    Filipe Massa must be very relieved. Don’t know when he’ll get another chance like last year for a title, but at least now the game continues and he has a few years left in him.

    Raikonnen just lost a golden opportunity to leave gracefully and blame the split series.

    The champions at the back (Alonso and Hamilton) must be annoyed that the rules will remain roughly the same; they might have been hoping that another radical rules overhaul for 2010 would have allowed their teams (Renault, McLaren) to jump ahead next year since they wouldn’t be competing for this years championship anyway.

    Many of the “weaker” drivers (Piquet, Bourdais) will be happy to see 3 new teams absorb some new talent instead of them being replaced (still possible though).

  62. Sush Meerkat
    25th June 2009, 14:08

    this was in the Sun, by Kelvin Mackenzie

    I understand that the F1 pece deal was thrashed out after the eight team owners went into a room and beat the cr*p out of the revolting Max Mosley. Both sides were happy with the meeting

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      25th June 2009, 16:47


  63. iam happy with this result.yes f1 will never ever die.

  64. I voted NO and I stand by it. Nothing good will come from this years rules will 3 GP2 alike new teams…

    The only plus I can see is 6 more cars on the starting grid… The rest… Rubish!

    The only really way the improve was the cut it all and start from the begining…

    And about the Races Calendar? Witha about those new/old tracks listed in FOTA championship? Are they gone? Will we have next year again with the same tracks of this year? To see so many GPs on the east wittout viewers and we in Europe, can only see them live in the middle of the nights?…. All agout money again and again…

  65. At the end of the day, F1 is better off now than it was a few weeks ago, seeing that Max has pretty much been taken out of the picture. On the same note, Bernie is still ruining the calendar by forcing out good venues, but hopefully that will changer sometime soon.

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