What has Max Mosley ever done for us?

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Romans: Big on aqueducts and roads, but not budget caps
Romans: Big on aqueducts and roads, but not budget caps

All right, all right! But, apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order… what have the Romans done for us?

Like the Romans in Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian”, Max Mosley gets a fair bit of stick from F1 fans. Particularly at the moment, as he appears to have embarked on a last-gasp bid to wreck the deal that could save Formula 1.

But let’s stop, take stock of his 18 years in the job as FIA president and ask, what has he done for us? What has he got right?

Safety

Putting all the whys and wherefores to one side, there is one point about Mosley’s governance of Formula 1 that is a cast-iron certainty: he has made the sport safer.

In recent years we have seen drivers like Robert Kubica (Montreal, 2007) and Alexander Wurz (Paul Ricard testing, 2005) survive monumental accidents with barely a scratch. One shudders to think what would have happened to a driver of the eighties who, like Wurz, might have had the misfortune to strike a wall at 300kph (187mph).

Undoubtedly, much of this came as a reaction to the horrors of 1994, when we lost Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger in one weekend, and other drivers such as Karl Wendlinger and Pedro Lamy suffered huge crashes which exceeded the limits of what the cars and circuits could safely contain.

If Mosley’s zeal for ramming through unpopular regulations against the teams’ wishes has ever served the sport well, it did in 1994, when he forced quick changes to the cars to cut speeds and improve safety.

Quality of competition

Max Mosley was elected to the FIA presidency in 1991. That year began with 34 cars from 18 teams on the grid.

Today we have ten teams and 20 cars And, if Mosley succeeds in alienating the eight FOTA teams from next year’s championship, only five teams are currently slated to appear

The quantity of teams has clearly declined. But the quality of those entries has improved: last year nine of the ten teams scored a podium finish, in 1991 it was six. There were five different winners in 2008, three in 1991.

Significantly, this ‘quality over quantity’ scenario was Mosley’s goal from the outset. To this end, new teams had to lodge a $48m bond with the FIA merely to enter the championship, and only the top ten teams in a championship were entitled to receive travel money from FOM.

However the other consequence of this has been F1 bringing meagre grids to races for around a decade and a half. For a long time Mosley has shown no interest in fixing this.

Now that he has done, we could potentially see up to 13 teams in F1 next year. Ironically, that scenario now seems to be contingent upon Mosley stepping aside.

Calendar

Although it is Bernie Ecclestone’s responsibility to sign deals with race promoters, it is down to the FIA to sign off the calendar. Here is it how it has changed since 1991:

Lost

Phoenix, United States
San Marino, Italy
Montreal, Canada
Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, Mexico City
Silverstone, Great Britain*
Estoril, Portugal
Adelaide, Australia
Magny-Cours, France

Added and lost

Kyalami, South Africa
TI Aida, Japan
Buenos Aires, Argentina
A1 Ring, Austria
Indianapolis, United States

Added

Donington Park, Great Britain*
Nurburgring (new), Germany
Melbourne, Australia
Sepang, Malaysia
Shanghai, China
Sakhir, Bahrain
Istanbul, Turkey
Valencia Street Circuit, Spain
Marina Bay, Singapore
Fuji, Japan
Yas Island, Abu Dhabi

*Presuming Donington Park does take Silverstone’s place on the 2009 calendar.

The over-riding concern has been to take F1 to new countries, particularly those of key interested to car manufacturers, such as China.

But this has been pursued at the loss of too many important venues for F1. By dropping France off the calendar, it has severed its links with the country that gave the world Grand Prix racing. Mosley has allowed North America to fall off the calendar entirely.

In their place have come a series of events in places with little interest in Formula 1, correspondingly meagre crowds, and underwhelming cookie-cutter tracks. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a big fat fail for Mosley on this count.

Financial health of F1

In 2000 Mosley authorised the sale of F1’s commercial rights to Bernie Ecclestone for 100 years for $309m. Even by his standards Ecclestone got an incredible deal – thanks partly to Mosley’s apparent desire to conclude a deal before anyone else got an offer in.

That included the European Automobile Manufacturer?s Association (ACEA – which is now backing FOTA’s protests against the FIA), whose representative Paolo Cantarella met with Mosley to discuss a potential offer. Mosley later wrote to Cantarella explaining that his association had one week to deliver a bid for a contract which Ecclestone and various FIA representatives had been working on for eight months.

Having got his knock-down deal, six years later Ecclestone sold control of F1 to CVC Capital Partners. The exact total paid is not known, but the sum is believed to be well in excess of $1.7bn, and was funded by CVC securing a loan against its future profits of $2.9bn.

This has left Formula 1 in a situation where its participants foot huge bills to compete and see the majority of the revenues generated by their activities handed not to themselves, nor re-invested into the sport, but to a private equity firm principally concerned with squeezing the sport for every penny it’s got.

On top of that several teams are yet to receive what monies they are entitled to from previous seasons, adding to their objections.

This is where the roots of the bitter row afflicting F1 today lie. And it started with a deal done by Mosley.

Your verdict

The question of safety is arguably the single most important thing Mosley has had to do in his F1 car. And his response was, largely, correct and good for the sport. However we must always remember it was in reaction to a crisis, rather than pre-emptively avoiding one.

Safety aside, how many other concrete examples are there of how Mosley has improved F1?

A better-quality grid has been achieved at the expense of decent entry numbers. The championship visits some new countries having sacrificed others, and is seen by fewer fans. The roster of circuits is becoming ever more uniform.

The unequal distribution of F1’s revenues has gotten worse, not better. And it has spawned the very crisis which Mosley now presumes to tell us he should remain in power to fix.

I’m not convinced. In 18 years, Mosley has not done nearly enough for us, the F1 fans.

What good do you think Mosley has done for F1? Share your verdict on his FIA presidency below.

150 comments on “What has Max Mosley ever done for us?”

  1. Welease Bwian!

    Sorry, had to be done.

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      28th June 2009, 21:43

      Oh dear. I’ve just had to get the DVD out of the rack – and it’s Keith’s fault for that gratuitous quote.

    2. You’re only allowed to do the Python quote thing if you give it an F1 twist:

      Welease Dennis!

      Or, as Sniff Petrol did via Twitter the other day:

      Are you the Judean Formula 1 Front?
      **** off! We’re the Formula 1 Front of Judea. #montypythonquotesstolentomockf1troubles

      1. “Nobody… is to stone anybody… until I say so… even if… they do say Schumacher!”

      2. He’s not the FIA President! He’s a very naughty boy!

      3. Oh dear god F1 tainted Python quotes, if my girlfriend dumps me for this I’m blaming you Keith.

        “I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a Mitford sister and your father was a fascist”

  2. i think it’s unfair to hang the lousy calendar on the fia. although they do sign off on each cicuit, their resposibility is in safety and competition, not whether anyone gives a damn about abu dhabi. that is solely the responsibility of fom. also, i’m under the belief that france and other “heritage” races would be a certainty if the teams had signed the the last concorde agreement years ago – but that is a topic unto itself, and far more complicated than we’ll ever know.

  3. True, F1Yankee. The calendar has much more to do with Bernie`s side of things than Max`. Some of the circuits will have fallen below spec but, for many, the issue was money.

    Interestingly, & I haven`t checked if it`s absolutely correct, someone recently said that since Max` stewardship began 16 independent teams have gone west.
    Strange that this should only become an issue for him after one manufacturer left.

  4. Nothing,safety,I say look at the incidents before Mosley’s rampage.One name comes to mind Andrea DeCesaris.It comes down to a bit of luck when the big one occurs.Max ,don’t let the door hit you on the way out.YOU ARE DELUSIONALW ho are the people that back this guy?I have seen nothing but negatives on all the websites.

  5. keith- ‘we could potentially see up to 3 teams in F1 next year’ ?? i hope not!

    1. Thanks Sato, fixed it.

      1. If Max goes on like this you may have been right the first time, Keith.

  6. Wow! you really hate Max don’t you Keith?

    …either that or you’re pampering to the masses to keep the readership high…

    Shameful, and yet so totally unnecessary.

    1. I dunno, Speekingleesh down there is telling me I’m being too nice…

      The Python quote is partly intended to make a point – you can get so bound up in criticising someone for what they’re doing right now that you may be inclined to overlook other things they’ve done that were good.

      If this were a character assassination there are several unsavoury things I might have chucked at him. I think I’ve been pretty fair.

      What do you object to most?

      1. With regards to safety, F1Yankee has a very valid viewpoint… and where in the world has safety been resolved before any deaths? It usually takes the government 100’s of deaths to do anything, and not always even then. As F1Yankee says, deaths were ten a penny in JYS days and not much was being done about it.

        With regards to finance, Bernie (and, as you say, not Max) sold it for “in excess of £1.7bn” and now ticket/circuit prices and distribution is now out of kilter. The fact that Max sold it at what you seem to indicate is a good price to keep costs reasonable is glossed over, simply because he sold it to Bernie. The details of which we don’t know and can only surmise, and regardless that the value of F1 has rocketed since Max & Bernie took the reigns.

        As for ciruits and countries visited is pretty much down to Bernie, and calculated in Bernies pockets that would seem very successful. However, as you say, the fans are suffering… or are we?… Italian fans still have Monza, British fans will always have a BritGP regardless of the scaremongering of Bernie…ticket prices don’t seem to put people off here in the height of a recession (300,000+ I believe)… US fans voted with their feet, and lost out… but that is more Tony George than Max Mosley. Germany, France and Spain fans are dependant on their drivers and numbers drop drastically with no successful drivers. Much less so in UK & Italy (Max & Bernie contract Ferrari as much as they can).

        All that said, I freely admit Max has way too much power… whose fault is that though? Max, or they that gave him the power… The FIA and WMSC we hear little about, who are these people and what do they do, what powers do they have, why don’t they play a bigger role? (an interesting future article perhaps)… do we want a democracy though? that is all red tape and takes forever to get decisions, if at all… FOTA have shown this already regarding the Diffusers, and many other issues in the past where the teams couldn’t agree.

        I agree, Max should step down, but only because he is getting on a bit and showing signs of dementia. Who is going to take his place, should there be anyone with that amount of power? Can we trust anyone… Jean Todt? Ron Dennis? Do they care about the sport?

        1. The fact that Max sold it at what you seem to indicate is a good price to keep costs reasonable is glossed over, simply because he sold it to Bernie.

          Sorry, how does Mosley selling something for (potentially) much less than it’s worth cut costs?

          1. Sorry, how does Mosley selling something for (potentially) much less than it’s worth cut costs?

            So, what are you saying? Max should have sold it for £2bn… so you can then blame him directly for the high costs to the circuits and participants to cover the loan repayments. Or, that Max or Bernie should have sold it for £2bn to someone that didn’t need a loan to cover it? Regardless that most business deals are done through Finance rather than real cash.

        2. When he sold the right to Bernie for 100 years for 309 million. Who in their right mind sells anything good and poular for 100 yrs. In the US none of the major sports right are sold for more than 3-5yr stretches, because the organizers know that in that lenght of time they will need to renegotiate for a new and better deal. Even the stadiums only sell their rights for 20yrs max and all you get to do is put your corporations name on it.

          As far as safety is concerned, F1/FIA didnt have a choice as some of the tracks needed some things fixed and as we have seen some of the countries like to hold someone responsible for the deaths whether justified or not.

          I dont know who will be selected or will run for the position that Max holds, but it doesnt need to be anyone who is beholding to any of the players in the sport now. There have been to many deals in back rooms and buddies given sweatheart deals in this area. You cannot get rid of all of it but you can get rid of the glaring examples of it. I dont believe Ron or Jean Todt would want it anyway.

          As far as fans loosing out, they have been for a long time. Some people save up all year just to attend 1 GP. That is excessive.
          The US voted with its feet is correct, and after the teams temper tantrum in 2006, I dont blame them. I have seen other series have the same problems at the same track and they just made the teams perform mandaotry tire changes in a certain lap window. It may not have been as good a race as the others but when you have that many people paying big money to see these kind of races and then they just pull off the track after the formation lap. the FIA/Bernie/Max/ anyone else involved should have know it was going to be the death of the sport at that venue, if not the country.

          Max needs to go for all the reasons that you listed and then so many more. He has been the head of FIA since 1991 and I have heard more news involving him in the last 12 months than I did in the previouos 17 years, mostly negative.

        3. So Dougie, If the weekend of may 1st 1994 had only produced the death of Roland Ratzenberger, do you think max Mosley and the FIA would have bent over backwards to change the safety of F1 by altering circuits and changing regulations specs of the cars.
          I highly doubt it.
          They only went for a hug step on safety because of Senna.
          However that does not mean Max Mosley is not to thanked for helping with safety. But the BRDC has to be thanked also for pushing the FIA on safety too. I remember all to often hearing Coulthard calling for more and more safety.

          1. And Dougie you mention JYS Jackie Stewart.

            Was it not he sho started the safety, or at least called for extreme safety measures in F1?

          2. And Dougie you mention JYS Jackie Stewart.
            Was it not he sho started the safety, or at least called for extreme safety measures in F1?

            Agreed, but we are talking about FIA Presidents here.

    2. I think rather than lump it all at Mosley’s door, and he should get a fair share of the blame, there are plenty of anti-fan boneheaded policies implimented over the years. Bernie and FOM should get a huge dose due to his adding countries and tracks because he can charge pretty much whatever he wants and get his price,(on behalf of CVC Capital.) Also, lets not forget the teams themselves. I don’t remember Ferrari or Mclaren being the most fan concerned organizations when Jean Todt, and Ron Dennis were running their respective shows. Frank Williams too for that matter. Their interest was always “whats in it for my team” and the hell with everybody else, fans included. Only recently after Todt and Dennis left did things begin to change on the teams side. Frank left FOTA and signed with FOM/FIA thinking this was the best thing to do for the team. Look, I’m a fan of the teams and the drivers but until recently I think there has been a good deal of blame that could be spread around. Probably starting with Max and the FIA.

      1. To be fair, Leaf, Ferrari were equally as good to their fans back then & I`d guess McLaren were as well.
        The fans, like the teams, have come together more over recent months. There`s more interaction going on all round.
        You`re right though that nothing could change while the old guard of Todt, Dennis & others were around. To me that also includes Max & Bernie. We won`t get a new F1 until they`ve also gone.

        1. I agree with that.
          New blood would be a good thing.
          Max needs to go and Bernie does too. I think Bernie has done alot for F1 over the years. Probably over the last 10-15 years however, it’s just money/power. Alot of this goes back to the sellout to Bernie and then Bernie selling a majority to CVC. He is an employee, basically, of CVC and is true only to them.(and himself)

          1. Agreed, Formula One needs new blood at all levels. The era of Ron & Jean is behind us now, and Max & Bernie are part of that.

      2. The worst thing that has happened in F1 in the last 15 years was the deaht of Ayrton Senna.
        Not because of someone with a bit of talent and an icon was killed, but because it was the catalyst for MOSLEY and ECCLESTONE to change formula one to their benefit. One for power and the other for money.

        1. I totally agree.

  7. HounslowBusGarage
    28th June 2009, 21:45

    Keith
    “That year began with 34 cars from 18 teams on the grid.”
    Don’t understand. Were 1-car teams allowed in 1991?

    1. Fondmetal and Coloni both fielded single car teams for the 1991 season, neither with any great success.

      Coloni stood out as not once making it through pre-qualifying, let alone getting onto the grid. Unsurprisingly, since the team operated on a staff of about 6 people.

      The team was sold to Andrea Sassetti at the end of the year and renamed Andrea Moda – who stand out as possibly the most shambolic and useless F1 team of all time, and possibly fuelled Mosley’s desire for quality over quantity.

  8. Coloni & Fondmetal had only one car each, I think.
    In fact Coloni only had a handful of team members. This was in the days of pre-qualifying & qualifying.

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      28th June 2009, 22:14

      Yes Persempre, quite so. You’re right.

  9. HounslowBusGarage
    28th June 2009, 22:08

    I think you probably out to add Magny-Cours under the “Added” list as its first GP was in 1991, or more accurately under the “Added and Lost” bit.

    1. No, Magny-Cours was added to the calendar in 1991, before Mosley took over.

  10. Much of the safety was a result of 1994, am sure any one else in the same position would have done at least the same, if not a better job. So it’s a big fat fail on all fronts for Mosley for me.

    1. 1994, when there were 2 fatalities. why not 4 decades earlier, when someone died at every race?

      1. Good point. F1 has always been a dangerous sport and in the old days that was what seperated the racers from the posers. You can only engineer so much safety into a car and track. Danger is part of the sport.

    2. Perhaps I’m over-keen to give credit to Max Mosley (that would be a first) but there was quite a lot of opposition to some of the changes he made in 1994.

      1. I guess Kubica, Wurz and many other drivers are thankful that Max didn’t listen to the opposition.

      2. And the main change in 94 was cutting a hole in the air box to reduce speeds. All the teams had a hole cut behind the air inlet along the part of the airflow, Ferreri had theirs cut to the side, minimizing the effect. Ferrari won that year and there was a protest.

        Mosley also reduced the size of the tyres, saying there was no excitement as drivers were not spinning off track.

        1. I do believe it was Benneton with the side cuts in the engine cover and went on to win.

          1. The main change that happened during 1994 was the plank – Michael Schumacher was disqualified from the Belgian GP because of excessive plank wear, giving the win to Damon Hill.

            Ferrari certainly had side cuts (about the size of a cigarette packet) rather than the rear cut out envisaged by the new regulations. But I don’t think it caused much of a row because the airbox changes didn’t have much effect anyway. The Benetton software and refuelling scandals were much bigger.

          2. I remember Schumacher chasing Berger till he spun out at the German GP giving Ferrari their only win that year. Ferrari was forced to adopt the same cut out profile as the other teams. Not much of a scandal, but the car passed the scrutineers.

  11. And don’t forget, that before Mr Mosley, Jackie Stewart (whom Max hates) and Dr Sid Watkins were already hard at work on safety and Mr Mosley jumped on the bandwagon.

    1. sure, jackie stewart has been championing safety for as long as he’s been involve with cars. but, he’s not responsible for making rules.

      “hey, how about not strapping my legs to the gas tank?”
      sounds like common sense to me, but i don’t make the rules, either.

      anybody could have done it.
      somebody should have done it.
      nobody did it, until mosley.

      1. And would Mosley have done it if it were not for such an icon in the sport dying? No, i doubt it.

        And if M Schumacher had died while he was competing in F1 as champion then the same would have happened then.

  12. Simon Wilkins
    28th June 2009, 22:34

    I dont think Donington will be taking Silverstone’s place on the 2009 calendar, maybe 2010 though :)

    Spa ought to be in the list too

    Donington was used in 1993

  13. Interesting article keith what you can point to is that max has increased the cost of the sport so dramatically that the so called financial crisis he tried to change was caused internally by him.What you could possible do is a car’s price to race in 1991 versus 2009 then apply the cost of having to comply with the numerous rule changes over the years.V8’s to V10’s back to V8’s would be a good start then go on from there.
    Max may well be remembered by some for safety but the majority of fans will remember him for the trouble he caused in the sport and the position we have just come out of.I won’t miss him!

  14. Somehow I don’t think all credit should go to Max re: safety. Anyone who’d been FIA president during the Ratzenberg&Senna incidents would still take the same measures to ensure safety in future Formula 1 races. Seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction on his part imho, plus if he didn’t do anything about it everyone would be ganging up on him. (Come to think of it, despite that everyone’s still ganging up on him.)

    1. Anyone who’d been FIA president during the Ratzenberg&Senna incidents would still take the same measures to ensure safety in future Formula 1 races. Seems a bit of a knee-jerk reaction on his part imho

      I guess that is why during the 60’s and 70’s the FIA President was doing lots for safety. A knee jerk reaction there also I guess, or in reality a distinct lack of. At least Max reacted… others may well have… but the fact is Max reacted.

      1. How many big and famous 3 times world champions and F1 icons died in the 60’s and 70’s Dougie?

        1. In 1982 a driver named Gilles Villeneuve (who I suspect would win a popularaty contest at the time easier than Senna would in 94) died on track. A couple of months later his former team mate and championship leader Didier Pironi got maimed in another accident. FIA did nothing about safety then. As it did little to nothing after pretty much every other high profile death prior to Senna.

  15. Right – I have been reading whats been posted over this last month and shut up when people have been taking sides on fota or fia – because what I knew would happen has happened – fota gave in Max said I’m going and – as expected the old b*****d has started to renage on a supposed agreement – when will those so called leaders of industry – power brokers?? – learn.
    The only good weasel is a dead and buried one – they have made the classic dumb move – started celebrating before the finish!!
    They should have stuck to their collctive guns and formed their breakaway series – I now feel Frankenmax and the the little evil dwarf – will wreak their vengance – stupid fota – poor fota – dead fota – back to the max and bernie F1 series – ps – who the hell is asking Max back??
    Was it the peruvian secretay of the fia – or himalayan representative?? – now bernie that would be a great place for herman to flatten out and make boring

  16. Don’t think you can underestimate the importance of Jackie stewart and Emmerson fitipaldi in the very early 70’s on safety.What happened in 94 was tragic but because it involved Senna things were changed. Sadly it would not have happened if it was only the death on the sat of Ratzenberger and also Rubens accident.I have watched for 40 years and the last thing I want is to see people loose their life in sport but it did happen and I saw many of my heros die.Max has moved the sport forward in this aspect but not on his own. Sid Watkins was there 10 years before.I always thought Max had been good for motor sport not only F1 but he has become a complete power freak and is now trying to destroy the sport through legislation.The FIA is there to govern and protect F1 not try to change it every year.

  17. M.M. gets credit for that safety increase, but I other than that he hasn’t really left that same good taste in our mouths that his initials stand for. (M&M’s the candy coated chocolate)

  18. Max should resign now!!!
    29th June 2009, 0:39

    I don’t follow the WRC but I’ve heard fans complaining about him there as well. I know this article is only trying to make an observation of what he has done to the F1 world, but wouldn’t it be great to see what he has done or not far racing in general? After all he is the president of the FiA not F1.

    1. True & Max is also responsible for safety in Rally which continues to have fatalities.
      OK, I know it`s harder to make Rally as safe as single seaters. I still give more credit to Prof Sid who was the F1 medic. How much of the improvement in F1 safety is down to his ideas which were signed off by the FIA, I wonder?
      To give Max his due he has been responsible for introducing the crash tests etc from F1 to the ordinary motoring world.

      1. But was it really max’s idea for the crash testing, or did he just take the credit?

        In fact he may or may not have taken credit for all the ideas on safety over the years.

        But then if that is true then all the crazy ideas could have been made by others and him taking the credit.

  19. In 2007 Max made Ron Dennis cry….that must count for something.

  20. I think that the ‘fans’ have a had a rough deal from all sides of F1.Max,with his silly rules.The teams for getting lost in their own self interest,and Bernie for generally making the whole thing rather expensive.

    Will it get any better ? Well the rather silly FIA are still there.The teams are unlikely to have suddenly become the fans best friends,and,of course,Bernie will still be taking us to ‘Wherethehellarewestan’ to get his money and sell their cars.

  21. Apart from Safety max has done nothing else for F1, the bloke has cost f1 teams millions with stupid rule changes and ridiculous decisions. The change in tyre rule is a great example. Grooved tyres were implemented on the safety argument which was ludicrous. Cars were lapping just as quick. In addition to this other regulations such as stupid changes from year to year like tyre rules (one tyre per race, pathetic), icu, minor amendments to the design of a car. These are all crap these did nothing for the sport accept cost millions of dollars to implement.
    He can argue that it takes a whole pile of people to vote on a decision and he is not the one that calls all the shots, however from what I hear and have read he did govern the FIA with an iron fist, “you betray me and your gone” , and on top of that reporters were afraid to talk bad about him because they were threatened to lose licence to enter the pitlane, look what nearly happend to brundle for speaking the truth. Max you are a dictator and i am glad to see the back of you.
    Personally I think the teams should have went on there own, and left max and the FIA high and dry. I cannot understand how Bernie and CVC let a man not in control of there company make crucial decision which affects them finically. I believe at the end of 2012, we will have the same issue. Because this was all about money, the teams are getting screwed, and revenue distribution is totally wrong.

  22. Apart from safety Max has failed in every corner

  23. It should be noted that the FIA asked the teams to come up with suitable rules to cut cornering speeds.But it’s a bit like asking an Axe murderer if he’d like to design a suitable ‘hachette’ for the job.

    1. All he had to do was ask the tire supplier to use a harder compound. The thing is, the speed and safety arguement is crap because we are as fast as we were a couple of years ago. They changed was made because he liked the look of the tyre.

      He wasted millions of dollars on stupid decisions. He is useless.

      1. All he had to do was ask the tire supplier to use a harder compound.

        Everyone except Ferrari got them.LOL

        Remember,you could still ‘buy’ a good tyre back then.

        The thing is, the speed and safety arguement is crap because we are as fast as we were a couple of years ago.

        But would have been faster if nothing had been done.

        They changed was made because he liked the look of the tyre.

        To make it go slower.

        He wasted millions of dollars on stupid decisions. He is useless.

        So did the teams.Are they useless?

        1. Seems only a topic on Max Mosley interests VXR. That should tell us something.

  24. Mussolini made the trains run on time and Hitler ended unemployment. Max and safety improvements may be a credible argument to make, but like the other two despots he will only be remembered for his failures, especially his miserable handling of the greatest sport on 4 wheels at the end of his reign of terror.

    Go to your bunker now Max, and do the honorable thing.

  25. max mosley is a badly groomed piglet. i dunno why everyone gives him the credit for making the sport safer & everything. no he didn’t. the guy has got too much ego. everyone knows about him. his now behaving like a loony himself. this evil man will never learn his lessons. never. This is actually the perfect time for him to be stepping down. the reason why i say this is he’s recently lost his son & his wife must be feeling very lonely,so it would be appropriate for him to spend more time with his family.

  26. Anyone sitting on Max seat was suppose to do the same for safety what he did.

    What is the logic behing giving commercial rights for 100 years? Can’t he give for 2,3 years contract?

  27. A better-quality grid has been achieved at the expense of decent entry numbers.

    Well, I don’t think they changed tracks just because safety reasons. I tend to think they changed circuits because hosting fees are killing those circuits not having public grants to survive.

    On the other hand, yes, maybe Max have done a good job on safety, but even Al Capone love his mother…

    How can be positive the work of a man who sold 100 years contract to his friend Bernie for 300 Millions and some time later his friend sold it to a third party for 1,(something) billion.?

    That kind of practises has a legal name…

  28. I wouldn’t say Max Mosley is as bas as Hitler but i’m sure if he ran a country he would have made just as much of a mess of it as he has done with FIA meddling in various motorsports
    And i guess he only went into FIA because he had no chance of becoming a politician. I’m sure he would have loved to become Prime minister. But then could he have done any worse than some we have had in Britain?

    1. he needs to step down asap, specially if he is to keep any dignity and good thought that people may remember of him. Otherwise he will go down in History as the most hated man, and a joke to the world.

      I am surprised that his advisers dont tell him this for his own good.

  29. This morning I’m wondering “why do I support Max so much?”… especially when since the mid 90’s I’ve watched the sport I grew up with and loved gradually degenerate into what I consider a shadow of its former self and quite simply IMO a farce of team tactics and strategies and pit lane overtaking, instead of drivers skill behind the wheel and on-track action.

    Maybe I don’t actually support Max, maybe comments like mp4-19b and Maksutov just get my back up. I’ve always taken time to understand and side with the persecuted and the under-dog. I tend to go against the masses and try to understand the other side. But in all honesty this time I’ve got to let logic and the facts override this psychological element in me.

    Reading the Wiki on Mosley it all seems to start honourable (of course, he is trying to get the position of FIA President) and during the dark period of 1994 he did some honourable things. I believe any 2 deaths that weekend would have resulted in a similar response. He also did great things for road safety through F1. But it quickly becomes apparent during his 2nd and now very much so into his 3rd term that power corrupts.

    It is time for Max to leave, and I still believe that the FIA in general have a lot to answer to in allowing this to happen. A FIA Presidency is a position which should IMO only be held for a maximum number of terms like the US & French Presidents and the UK Prime Minister… based on how quickly Max asserted his corrupted leadership I guess that would be only 1 term… but in reality lets make it 2 terms.

    Anyway Max out, I’m with the mob on this one!

    1. Dougie, no offence but i never thought i’d see a leopard change it’s spots or see pigs fly.
      But your opinion is valid whatever you think, be it going alone or staying with the masses. The masses can be wrong, but i don’t think so on this occasion.

      So welcome Dougie.

      1. Cheers scunnyman

  30. I’ve no idea what has just happened to the comment by Maksutov!?!

    1. I’ve no idea what has just happened to the comment by Maksutov!?!

      hahaha.. maybe its called frustration?

      Well im sorry but Mosley has gone overboard. this is no time to discuss how good he is.

      There are many manipulative people in this world that are equivalent to Max Mosley, Hitler clearly was one of them, did you ever read and study about Hitler? Maybe you should try. I am not talking about his murders im referring to his very conniving and manipulative ways. And simply, that is the point Max Mosley has dragged the community to think of him. Maybe you should read some of the other forums and posts.

      People who are interested to create problems in this world rather then to solve them should be removed nicely or controlled by justice,.. but if none of those work, then what else can one say!?

      If he continues with the path that he is on now, then what I have said above about him will only be a shadow.

      If Max Mosley wants to keep his dignity, thats right “dignity” and any good thought that the F1 community might remember of him, THEN HE SHOULD STEP DOWN and stop this nonsense corrupted manipulative damage that he is forcing upon the sport the members of the sport and its fans.

    2. Ok my above post cam out wrong: this is to Dougie:

      …..im sorry but Mosley has gone overboard. this is no time to discuss how good he is.

      There are many manipulative people in this world that are equivalent to Max Mosley, Hitler clearly was one of them, did you ever read and study about Hitler? Maybe you should try. I am not talking about his murders im referring to his very conniving and manipulative ways. And simply, that is the point Max Mosley has dragged the community to think of him. Maybe you should read some of the other forums and posts.

      People who are interested to create problems in this world rather then to solve them should be removed nicely or controlled by justice,.. but if none of those work, then what else can one say!?

      If he continues with the path that he is on now, then what I have said above about him will only be a shadow.

      If Max Mosley wants to keep his dignity, thats right “dignity” and any good thought that the F1 community might remember of him, THEN HE SHOULD STEP DOWN and stop this nonsense corrupted manipulative damage that he is forcing upon the sport the members of the sport and its fans.

      1. you hit the nail on the head,Maksutov.

        1. and i dunno why my comments are “awaiting moderation”.maybe this is what you get for speaking the truth. its all a mosley conspiracy imo. max mosley wants complete control of everything, including f1 blogs. i’ve just expressed my views, as this is a co.uk website, the British imo are open to criticism & always take it in the right spirit. i dunno who’s “moderating” my comments. is it FIA bots? or maybe james allen.

          1. Yes i have a couple of comments awaiting moderation too mp4. I dunno why either, i thought they were innocuous comments and they have been waiting for a couple of days now with no response from Keith.

          2. i dunno who moderates it. maybe anything anti-mosley gets taken off the blog. you see this is what dictators do. max mosley is the personification of evil.

          3. My 2 comments, mp4, included references to Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson and i don’t think i said anything bad.

          4. i just mocked at mosley, drawing comparisons between the song “we are the champions” by queen(rock band) & his life, it was to be taken in a lighter sense. but the FIA bot seems to have missed the point that i was trying to make. i also never meant to insult Freddie Mercury(RIP). The FIA bot moderating this blog is just like mosley!

          5. maybe you said something about the Hollywood jinx. that if one dies two will follow? and maybe the FIA bot mistook the 3rd one as max mosley . The FIA bot forgot Ed McMahon :) & i wanna know how did you think mosley would be the third in the queue ? & is mosley in anyway related to hollywood ?

          6. Yes i made comment about the urban myth of 3 celebs and he who can’t be named be the 3rd.

            It wasn’t that bad and was not to be taken seriously.

          7. I moderate the comments: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/credits-and-contacts/f1-fanatic-comment-policy/

            Scunnyman I’ve got to the bottom of the problem with yours earlier and will reply to your email shortly.

            If anyone else has a query about moderation please drop me a line or leave a comment on this thread: Rules on commenting.

      2. There are many manipulative people in this world that are equivalent to Max Mosley, Hitler clearly was one of them, did you ever read and study about Hitler? Maybe you should try.

        People who are interested to create problems in this world rather then to solve them should be removed nicely or controlled by justice,.. but if none of those work, then what else can one say!?

        This is interesting because fundamentally we all arrived the same way, and our childhood experiences define who we are as people today. I consider Hitler, Max and other people that I know through History, and others personally, as victims of their own childhood. Most of which leads to a lifetime behind bars, and if not a lifetime of mental torture and anguish dealing with it.

        Now that is not to say that we should forgive them their sins, most certainly not in the case of Hitler. But fundamentally all we are doing is sweeping this under the carpet.

        It is society, our society, that creates this evil.

        ps. I’m an atheist. If that matters.

  31. The only thing you could say Mosley has done for F1 is the increased safety, but as others have pointed it could well be argued that anyone else in charge at the time of Senna’s death would have been under pressure to do the same, as although big names had died before in F1 peoples attitudes had changed by 1994.

    Jackie Stewart did a lot more for safety in F1 and at a time when the attitude was if you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen. With everything Stewart has achieved Mosley still decides to call him a certified half-wit, and having also recently called FOTA a bunch of loonies he then makes a big fuss when di Montezemolo allegedly called him a dictator.

    Selling the commercial rights to F1 for 100 years for only $309m can at best be described as incompetence, what other major sport sells it’s rights for as long a period as 100 years, and at a price that works out at $3m a year before inflation reduces it?
    I wouldn’t have been surprised that someone who was trying to get the best price could have got $300m for just a 10 year lease.

  32. I don’t accept that Mosley has improved safety. Safety has been improving in all sports for the last 3 decades, and Max’s arch enemy Sir Jackie was campaigning for improved safety before Max took office. Safety would have improved under ANY incumbent. Perhaps it’s refreshing to have someone out-spoken in a world of punishments for ‘bringing the game into disrepute’ but I really think he’s losing his marbles. His verbal assaults of Jackie, Ron and now Flavio are shameful. Time to go!

  33. Only thing Max has done is destroy F1.

    The safety thing is rubbish it was HIM who ordered the removal of all the technology from the cars and didn’t do enough when it was blatantly obvious when they were dangerous during pre-season. His reaction was a joke the horses already bolted from the stable that he didn’t close.

    Also anyone notice how crap F1 has become since he signed things over to Bernie? We’ve lost all the old prestigious tracks and replaced them with Tilkedromes. The best example of this above any other track is the Hockenheimring. That track has been butchered and destroyed by all three of the culprits that are bringing F1 to destruction Max, Bernie and Herman.

    Above all the fact that so many fans are hoping for a FOTA breakaway really sums up what everyone thinks about the three clowns.

    1. Thanks for mentioning Hockenheim, as of last week, it should be part of the ‘lost’-list.

      And you’re right: the changes on this track killed it already

  34. We might have got a more balanced set of opinions if people actually knew how certain organisations worked.For example,many people think (and it should be said are continuously allowed to think) that Max Mosley dreams up some stuff and then the teams have to do whatever he says.Well that’s just B******s! The FIA doesn’t work like that at all.But if I were to point the finger at the one organisation that has had a lot of influence on the regulations over the past few years I would be branded as biased,and against all that F1 stood for.

    We should never underestimate a dictator in the same way that we should never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

    1. I am in the large group who supports the views of those who actually build the cars and nurture the drivers (i.e. FOTA). I think that power hungry lawyers/politicians and $-hungry profiteers make decisions primarily to server their own interests. If it also can be sold as “helping the sport” its a plus, but not a primary motivation.

      @ vxr:

      So which large group do you belong to?

      1. So which large group do you belong to?

        “There is no strength in numbers,have no such misconception.”

        A good line from a good song.Proved to be true time and time again.

        1. “There is no strength in numbers,have no such misconception.”

          A good line from a good song.Proved to be true time and time again.

          So is “two heads are better than one” told by famous intelligent philosophers, which has proven to be true time and time again.

    2. One more thing @vxr:

      … many people think … that Max Mosley dreams up some stuff and then the teams have to do whatever he says.Well that’s just B******s!

      Most people I know think that Bernie & Max dream up some stuff and then the teams have to do whatever they say.

      Recent example: Gold medal system!

      FYI: It was three men, and three men only, in a room for some 2 hours who settled the recent row (at least for a couple of days): Bernie, Max and Lucas. I didn’t see the rest of the 100-plus FIA “decision-making” members there!

      That’s how FIA, FOM/CVS and FOTA works!!

      1. FYI: It was three men, and three men only, in a room for some 2 hours who settled the recent row (at least for a couple of days): Bernie, Max and Lucas. I didn’t see the rest of the 100-plus FIA “decision-making” members there!

        The WMSC had already voted for the original 2010 ‘budget cap’ regulations by a majority of 24 to 2! Why do they need to be there? They had already voted for what they wanted!

        Recent example: Gold medal system!

        Totally Bernie’s idea.He should stick to what he does best.

        1. I didn’t see the rest of the 100-plus FIA “decision-making” members there!

          I didn’t see any other FOTA members there either.Maybe there’s something that Luca needs to do without them eh ?

        2. The point here is that Max has absolute power within FIA. Whatever he (often following pressure/suggestions from his long-term buddy Bernie) says gets ratified by the FIA senate and goes into the rules. This is what Lucas was referring to by using the term ‘dictator’.

          Sure, FOTA appears also dominated by Lucas (he is the spokesman after all). However, we know very little about the decision making process inside FOTA. In contrast we do have ample evidence about hte decision making process inside FIA: Max decides, FIA senate ratifies later. I can’t recall a Max decision that wasn’t ratified later. Do you??

          I can’t imagine that Max called up all the FIA representatives of the 130 member nations and asked for permission to send letters to Lucas to tell him the deal is off if he doesn’t bow and apologise. It’s his own personal decision. Kin to the misbehaviour of a 5-yr old throwing tamper tantrums asking for more spanking ;-)

          1. Whatever he (often following pressure/suggestions from his long-term buddy Bernie) says gets ratified by the FIA senate and goes into the rules.

            Completely untrue.The WMSC vote either for or against any rules that they have discussed among themselves.For example it is widely believed that Mosley came up with the ’40 million’ figure all on his lonesome.FACT is that Tony Purnell was asked by the FIA to come up with a figure that would enable an F1 team to adequately run two cars for one season.There were other ‘ideas’ that were,shall we say,not so radical but these were thought not to address the ‘current’ problem.

          2. This is what Lucas was referring to by using the term ‘dictator’.

            I’m sorry but if you can’t even get the high profile figures names right, how can we possibly take you seriously!?!

            It’s Luca

            Luca di Montezemolo

          3. @ vxr:
            I see your points: the ‘Max-bashing’ is a very popular recreational activity these days – always nice to have a single high profile target to put all the blame on. I usually go with minority views on most things (F1 or not), but the impression I get about the power structures behind our beloved flagship motorsport F1 from just watching the F1-media makes me very disgusted.

            True, some people know more about what’s going on behind the scenes than I do (e.g. your list of “FACTS”), but all my instincts tell me that Max is doing more harm to this particular sport than good.

            Nobody can know what’s going to happen in a ‘Post-Max’ area, but my feel is that not much is going to change. The power structures are deeply entrenched in the sport and can only be changed to something kin to ‘revolution’.

            At times, when a status quo becomes so unbearable, one has to take risks and sacrifices to attempt a change. Nobody can guarantee that things will work out. Yet, I think that if the FIA-FOTA-Fan-Sponsors relationships get further more out of balance, that a ‘fresh start’ is worth the hardships, sacrifices and risk of failure.

            Thats simply my feel/guess/opinion. No ‘rational’ debate can really debunk those feelings on each of our disparate viewpoints.

            We’ll see how things are going to play out. The Max-debacle seems settled for now, but maybe the fat lady hasn’t sung yet.

            @ Dougie:
            Sorry about my consistent misspelling of Lucas (or Luca’s) name. I am notoriously (acutally pathologically) bad in memorising (and pronouncing) names correctly. Thanks for catching my mistakes. I won’t make this one again (but there are infinitely many more left to make ;-) )

    3. many people think (and it should be said are continuously allowed to think) that Max Mosley dreams up some stuff and then the teams have to do whatever he says.

      What, are people now not “allowed” to think? And besides that, nobody is actually making these things up. These are FACTS. .Mosley is indeed dreaming and spitting out whatever he wants. Haven’t you been following the news!?

      The FIA doesn’t work like that at all.

      How does it work then? Do you think the current FIA institute is a competent and professional organization? An organization that deals with decisions in an orderly and professional and sensible and stable manner? A manner that a governing body is supposed provide? Well I am sorry, but that is exactly what the FIA are not doing.

      I do not understand your constant defense based on all the evidence that is available regarding what Mosley has done and is doing.

      You are describing everything that everybody wants the FIA to be, but its currently not.

      1. These are FACTS.

        Mosley:

        I don’t have the power to dictate. I only have the power to execute the decisions that the WMSC have taken.”

        This is FACT and no one who knows how the FIA works could possibly say otherwise.

        I do not understand your constant defense based on all the evidence that is available regarding what Mosley has done and is doing.

        FACT.

        Mosley wanted to save everyone a bundle of cash,and make it possible for other teams to join the championship.

        Here’s another FACT.

        We here that Mosley has made the teams waste money on KERS,and yet at least six teams wasted vast amounts more money because they failed to interpret ‘their’ own diffuser rule correctly!

        Another FACT is that if BMW had voted along with everyone else to kick KERS out they wouldn’t be wasting money on KERS in the first place.

        What no one seems to be able to understand is that the teams (particularly one team) have the mechanisms available to them to veto anything that they want.

        If for example the regulations say that for next season that they have to have a ‘teddy’ fixed to the nose cone of the cars then the teams can unanimously agree not to do that.But you’ll always get one team that thinks it can somehow gain an advantage by having a ‘teddy’ on the nose cone of its car!

        1. Right VXR here is FACT.

          The FIA did not come up with the figure 0f 40mil it was originally 30mil, then Bernie got involved and added another 10mil to the coffers ok

          1. The FIA did not come up with the figure 0f 40mil it was originally 30mil, then Bernie got involved and added another 10mil to the coffers ok

            Yes that’s right 30mil it was originally for a budget to design,build and develop two F1 cars during one season.Surely a challenge worthy of only the best engineers.Oh well,at least the company that makes the £800 wheel nuts will have breathed a sigh of relief.

        2. Mosley:

          I don’t have the power to dictate. I only have the power to execute the decisions that the WMSC have taken.”

          Do you think i trust Mosley’s word and I am going to take whatever he says for granted? No. I am deriving my conclusions based on the REALITY of what is actually happening. Mosley is nothing but a conniving man who has proven time and time over to lie and manipulate. And yes he is a dictator.

          FACT.

          Mosley wanted to save everyone a bundle of cash,and make it possible for other teams to join the championship.

          So now you are contradicting yourself. NOW you are saying that it is in fact “Mosley” who wanted to make these changes. Which is in fact correct and there lies the problem. Some of his ideas were wrong, teams did not agree with them. He insisted, they disagreed, he wouldn’t let go his dictatorship. And there was the problem. And you talk about this right to veto, but it actually wasn’t there towards the end. As a result the teams had no choice but to do what they did.

          What no one seems to be able to understand is that the teams (particularly one team) have the mechanisms available to them to veto anything that they want.

          But that wasn’t the case. In fact Mosley wouldn’t listen to anything the teams were requesting. And that is exactly why we have reached this awful problem in F1. Because Mosley wouldn’t listen to requests of the Teams. And that is called dictatorship. Had the FIA or Mosley considered the requests of teams they would have solved this problem months ago. I dont know what else to tell you, because that is what has been happening. And if you can not see that, then I dont know..

          1. ok my bquote is all inverted again.

            VXR:
            —————————————
            Mosley:

            I don’t have the power to dictate. I only have the power to execute the decisions that the WMSC have taken.”
            ————————————–

            Maksutov:
            Do you think i trust Mosley’s word and I am going to take whatever he says for granted? No. I am deriving my conclusions based on the REALITY of what is actually happening. Mosley is nothing but a conniving man who has proven time and time over to lie and manipulate. And yes he is a dictator.

            VXR:
            —————————————
            FACT.

            Mosley wanted to save everyone a bundle of cash,and make it possible for other teams to join the championship.
            —————————————

            Maksutov:
            So now you are contradicting yourself. NOW you are saying that it is in fact “Mosley” who wanted to make these changes. Which is in fact correct and there lies the problem. Some of his ideas were wrong, teams did not agree with them. He insisted, they disagreed, he wouldn’t let go his dictatorship. And there was the problem. And you talk about this right to veto, but it actually wasn’t there towards the end. As a result the teams had no choice but to do what they did.

            VXR:
            ————————————–
            What no one seems to be able to understand is that the teams (particularly one team) have the mechanisms available to them to veto anything that they want.
            ————————————-

            Maksutov:
            But that wasn’t the case. In fact Mosley wouldn’t listen to anything the teams were requesting. And that is exactly why we have reached this awful problem in F1. Because Mosley wouldn’t listen to requests of the Teams. And that is called dictatorship. Had the FIA or Mosley considered the requests of teams they would have solved this problem months ago. I dont know what else to tell you, because that is what has been happening. And if you can not see that, then I dont know..

      2. How does it work then?

        Here you go! Articles 1 to 31.Knock yourself out! LOL

        http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/statutes/Pages/Article1.aspx

        1. VXR,
          Wow honestly, I really think you dont see what is happening in F1. You seem a little bit new to it mentally, and if you dont see it im sorry but you are a little bit narrow minded. If FIA have followed the book of rules in the first place, none of these problems would have occurred. That is pretty simple.

          The problem has been that Mosley was trying to establish rules that are clearly outside of the jurisdiction of the FIA. Teams disagreed, so what do you want now? What can you possibly say and tell me to prove that the ball is not a ball, that the Moon is not the Moon, that the monkey is not the monkey? Because that is what you are trying to do. 85% of the population think so, 10% of them are neutral, and 5% of them are blind. You must be the blind 5%. Its called narrow minded. I like however that you follow the rules of how FIA should in fact represent and how they should govern and operate. But unfortunately that is exactly what FIA is not doing.

          1. And to the person who created”Wheretheheckarewestan”, I can’t remember just now who it was, but thanks ever so much for such a marvelously evocative term.

            Yours truly.;)

          2. Wow honestly, I really think you dont see what is happening in F1. You seem a little bit new to it mentally, and if you dont see it im sorry but you are a little bit narrow minded.

            A “little bit new”,that had us rolling about I can tell you! LOL

            Because that is what you are trying to do. 85% of the population think so, 10% of them are neutral, and 5% of them are blind. You must be the blind 5%. Its called narrow minded.

            85% of the “population” ? 95% of the population couldn’t give a toss what went on if F1! We are ‘all’ in a minority here.

            You make it sound like the whole country has got aboard the FOTA express with a one way ticket to Utopia.

            I like however that you follow the rules of how FIA should in fact represent and how they should govern and operate. But unfortunately that is exactly what FIA is not doing.

            The FIA and not Max ? OK then.;)

            We agree that the FIA is flawed,but obviously not flawed enough for FOTA to want anything more to do with them.Why is that I wonder? *Think carefully now*

      3. Maybe for VXR everyone should read ALAN DONNELLY????????????????????????? lol

        1. I dont know but i feel sorry for VXR.

  35. For us, the fans? Other than frequently reducing ‘our’ sport to a global laughing stock you mean? Ot attempting to turn the sport into a glorified Formula Ford series? Or using his power to conduct petty-minded campaigns against perfectly decent & respected folk in F1?

    Nothing, nada, zilch, zip, nowt!

    It’s time to claim our sport back folks… http://www.formulaoneworld.com.

    As FOTA have recently proved beyond doubt, a united mass holds the power. If you really want a say in F1, rather than being treated by Max & others like something they trod in, sign up!!

    1. As FOTA have recently proved beyond doubt, a united mass holds the power.

      That is true of so many organisations…both good and bad.

  36. VXR, I can only imagine that you must be related to Mr Mosley, or on his payroll, to so consistently and vociferously defend him.

    The FiA and WMSC have routinely put a rubber-stamp approval on Mosley’s suggestions for years.

    And, yes, we all do believe that what Mosley says is what goes in F1, or has been until just recently, because in point of fact, Mosley is the governing body of F1. This has been the case since Mosley became FISA President in 1991, and then dissolved FISA when he became FiA President in 1993. With the dissolution of FISA, Max Mosley became de facto governing body of F1.

    Considering that up until his FISA Presidency he was legal advisor to FOCA, one may have thought his election would have been a good thing for the teams. History shows, though, that Mosley felt little if any falilial spirit for FOCA once he left them.

    It was a questionable, to put it mildly, deal for Mosley/FiA to sell the media rights for F1 to Bernie Ecclestone for such a small amount and for such a long period of time, especially in light of the fact that no competing bids were solicited.

    Mosley has a history of doing what is good for Mosley (and frequently what is good for Bernie), without regard to the needs or wishes of others.

    As to mention of the FiA Articles, VXR, Article 2 Paragraph 3:

    3) Promoting the development of motor sport, enacting, interpreting and enforcing common rules applicable to the organization and running of motor sport events.

    Nowhere does it mention “creating” rules.

    There is supposed to be a Sporting Authority in each country or region, or an Authority for motorsport which encompasses more than one country/region. That was what FISA was for F1. This was covered in Article 5, Exercise of the Sporting Power”:

    “…At the request of the holder of the Sporting Power and on proposal of the World Motor Sport Council, the General Assembly exceptionally shall authorise the holder of the Sporting Power to exercise this power through another organisation to which the Sporting Power shall then be delegated.

    The delegation may be:

    a) Total (i.e. covering all sporting activities), and in favour of one single organization functioning throughout the national territory.

    b) Total (i.e. covering all sporting activities), and in favour of one or several organizations functioning over a specific area of the territory.

    c) Selective (i.e. covering specific sporting activities), and in favour of one or more organisations exercising over the entire territory the functions which have been assigned to them.”

    The pertinent portion of this article is Paragraph C, under which FISA was created in 1922.

    Since 1993, Mosley has been riding roughshod over F1, though admitedly in the earlier years his performance was less onerous than of late.

    The situation currently, though, has reached a point that any thinking person must call for Mosley to step down, or for FiA to remove him. The fact that FiA has not done so already is a testament to the degree to which Mosley has the FiA Senate cowed. And please don’t speak to me of the 100-odd voting members of the Assembly. Some tiny car club in Wheretheheckarewestan hardly has a full grasp of the situation, and it was the smaller less F1-savvy clubs whose votes kept him in power, not the larger mainstream motorsport bodies. Mosley is ever so thankful for the “one club, one vote” rule.

    VXR, my dog-eared copy of the FiA Articles is right here on my desk, as it has been the last 50 years. Anytime you’d like to discuss them, you just let me know. :)

    And this last bit is for Dougie.

    “This morning I’m wondering “why do I support Max so much?”…
    Maybe I don’t actually support Max, maybe comments like mp4-19b and Maksutov just get my back up. I’ve always taken time to understand and side with the persecuted and the under-dog. I tend to go against the masses and try to understand the other side. But in all honesty this time I’ve got to let logic and the facts override this psychological element in me.”

    That’s alright, Mate, better late than never. Welcome aboard.

    And to the person who created”Wheretheheckarewestan”, I can’t remember just now who it was, but thanks ever so much for such a marvelously evocative term.

    1. OMG dsob……………………..
      Thankyou thankyou.

      At last some sanity in this mele of madness.

      This whole mess if the fault of the FIA delegates and sporting clubs who over the years have not had enough gumption to stop Mosley in his tracks.

      Maybe the FIA need the American approach and have a maximum 2 terms of office? The only trouble with that is the president would only arrange for his puppet to take over, or should i say Muppet?lol

      But Thanks again dsob. I’m sure i can sayu on behalf of maybe 99.9% of us here THANKYOU.

      1. Thanks for the kind words, scunnyman.

        I’d favor a term limitation, yes. Otherwise, you get into situations like Huey Long and Strom Thurmond, here in the U.S., where a politician in office too long forgets he once had a mandate.

        Also, I’d favor legislation precluding any person with a possible conflict of interest from seeking the office of FiA President.

        The post is, should be, primarily one of administration, so any competent businessman or attorney would fill the bill. I don’t believe an intimate knowledge of the workings of F1 is needed to decide if any propsed rule change vets out to meet the “2+2=4” standard.

        1. I’d agree on the idea of any restrictions put on a person who has conflicts of interest being able to run for any influencial position within FIA not just President.
          And yes why does anyone in charge of FIA have to have motorsport knowledge. Is that not why they have advisors and such. Just need someone who can ADMINISTRATE.

          BY the way dsob, do you know anything about Nick Craw?
          I have heard he is good, but nothing about his work and professional life. I have said in other posts that it would be good to have him at the head of the FIA in the way of bringing USA more into the fold and getting F1 into USA more.
          What do you think?
          If you don’t have any info on Nick Craw then maybe somebody else might.

      2. Maybe the FIA need the American approach and have a maximum 2 terms of office?

        From October 2005, the President of the FIA may not serve more than two consecutive terms of office, subject always to Article 12.1.

  37. I totally forgot to mantion the safety issue in my other post.

    As Daffid mention earlier, Sir Jakie Stewart was loudly campaining for better safety years before Max Mosley was involved in F1.

    And I agree, ANY incumbent would have enacted new rules after the 1994 disaster(though perhaps a different incumbent would have thought them through, first).

    Persempre made mention in another Comments thread here of Prof Watson, and now I’ve lost the link she posted, darn it. But Stewart introduced Watson to F1, and Watson did more for safety in F1 than any two other people I can think of.

    And the person who most helped Watson ram through what he needed at the venues was Bernie Ecclestone, believe it or not. The Evil Elf did some real good at one time.

    Max Mosley, the Great Champion of F1 Safety? I think not.

    1. Comments thread here of Prof Watson, and now I’ve lost the link she posted, darn it. But Stewart introduced Watson to F1, and Watson did more for safety in F1 than any two other people I can think of.

      Oh, dsob, you had me there. FIA articles on your desk, intimate knowledge of the workings of the FIA and the sport generally. A good balanced opinion, if a little in your face, but that could be said of lots here, me included possibly.

      However, anyone that knows anything about F1 knows who Professor Sid Watkins is.

      Oh dear! ;-)

      1. Oh, gracious, pardon me while I look embarrased. Rather like calling out the wrong girl’s name whilst in the throes of passion. Not as serious in consequences, certainly, but embarrasing nonetheless.

        Of course, I meant Sid Watkins. It’s tough getting old, memory is sometimes spotty on names.

        And you remind me that I need to be more restrained in the way in which I present my comments, sometimes. As a former business owner and retired naval officer I am used to saying what I think, when I think it , and the way I think it, which can be perceived as confrontational. Thank you for the reminder.

        1. Ach, it’s something we’re both guilty of, I sometimes wish more people were like that, the world has gone too PC. But I guess sometimes we have to accept diplomacy.

  38. Well Maksutov and dsob and any others out there. It’s a waste of time trying to get through to VXR. He’s as bad as Mosley himself, just won’t listen and thinks he knows best. He won’t look at both sides of an argument as most of us do.
    Even Dougie has had a change of heart.

    But at the end of the day VXR is allowed his opinion. Best to just ignore.

    1. just won’t listen and thinks he knows best.

      Right back at yer.;)

      But at the end of the day VXR is allowed his opinion. Best to just ignore.

      I know both sides of the argument only too well,probably more so than anyone on this forum is ever likely to do.

      But probably best just to ignore.

      I’m no fan of Max,indeed I find him to be rather arrogant,but that’s all,and if he rode ‘rough-shod’ over the teams it’s because they could never come up with any rules that suited anyone other than their own teams way of thinking.

      But I’m no fan of FOTA either.Since the rather ‘limp’ proposals in their ‘roadmap’ they seem to be now making it up as they go along,and somehow I think that many of us got carried along for the ride.

      Also the next few months will reveal that Mosley got more of a bargain than some think.

      I understand what FOTA are trying to do,but I also have serious doubts that FOTA will be able to deliver anything at all different to what we have now.

    2. Why do we have to change peoples opinions, why can’t we just have a debate and respect opinions?

      I’ve had a change of heart regarding that Max has served his time, mostly because I feel that 2 terms is enough and the power has corrupted him. With regards to dsob referring to Max (or whoever) putting his monkey in the box, sometimes the monkey can turn… for the better.

      However I respect VXR opinion and understand where he is coming from. F1 is more than Max… its Bernie, its the FIA, its the WMSC, its FOTA… and for me they are all as guilty as each other for this mess that is Formula 1 in 2009.

    3. scunnyman:
      —————————————-
      Well Maksutov and dsob and any others out there. It’s a waste of time trying to get through to VXR. He’s as bad as Mosley himself, just won’t listen and thinks he knows best. He won’t look at both sides of an argument as most of us do.
      Even Dougie has had a change of heart.
      —————————————-

      Well whatever people are thinking out there, Nothing beats truth and reality. Which is Mosley is doing damage to F1 with his childish bickering and manipulative games. Not really how a governing body should behave and operate. But FOTA also need to learn how to make decisions and stick with them. Specially with the latest deals made with FIA – like in my opinion there shouldn’t have been any deal with FIA under the current circumstances. So I was very disappointed with how it was handled. In fact nothing makes sense with this new deal.

      1. I have sore misgivings about the FOTA/FIA deal too and we on this forum are going around in circles because no news is coming out to tell us what is happening. I just want to start again with a clean sheet.
        Surely the FIA can’t be a law unto themselves. There must be a court somewhere who can close them down.

        1. and we on this forum are going around in circles because no news is coming out to tell us what is happening.

          haha yes we are, we need more news. :)

          Surely the FIA can’t be a law unto themselves. There must be a court somewhere who can close them down.

          I honestly hope so.

  39. But I’m no fan of FOTA either.Since the rather ‘limp’ proposals in their ‘roadmap’ they seem to be now making it up as they go along,and somehow I think that many of us got carried along for the ride.
    Also the next few months will reveal that Mosley got more of a bargain than some think.
    I understand what FOTA are trying to do,but I also have serious doubts that FOTA will be able to deliver anything at all different to what we have now.

    …and this is one balanced view I personally 100% rubber stamp. Agreed.

  40. “I know both sides of the argument only too well,probably more so than anyone on this forum is ever likely to do.”

    Please VXR could you qualify that statement?

    And i agree with you Dougie nobody should be trying to change peoples opinions. And i don’t think anyone is, well i know i’m not. We just want to know how people get to theirs over years of evidence that shows they may be wrong.

    1. “I know both sides of the argument only too well,probably more so than anyone on this forum is ever likely to do.”

      haha sounds like Mosley to me.

      1. “I know both sides of the argument only too well,probably more so than anyone on this forum is ever likely to do.”

        haha sounds like Mosley to me.

        So, Maksutov, are you saying that Max has a balanced view and can understand both parties??

        …and I thought you didn’t like him as well, I guess the worm has turned… :-D

        1. So, Maksutov, are you saying that Max has a balanced view and can understand both parties??

          hehe, I see what you trying to do. Anyway answer is no. What I ment by that is that Mosley also thinks he knows more then anyone else. :p

          and no I dont like Mosley. Worm will never turn on that one im afraid – actually I will keep an open mind for his sake. But he has to do a lot to make me change my mind.

    2. Please VXR could you qualify that statement?

      That would reveal too much I’m afraid.;)

      We just want to know how people get to theirs over years of evidence that shows they may be wrong.

      It became apparent to me a long time ago that while the FIA were not the greatest governing body in the world (to put it mildly),it was also apparent that the teams were also ‘blind’ to what we the fans wanted.Between the two of them,and particularly regarding the opportunities that Max (FIA) gave the teams to create their own rules (remember that Max would usually come up with three sets of rules,with only one set that was do-able and then say to the teams ‘can you do better ?’ which inevitably they didn’t because they could never agree on anything)they seem to have made a right B******s of it!

      And now we have the same situation again,nothing has changed.We’d be fools to think that the FIA will run the sport any differently or allow the sport to be run any differently,and we’d be fools to think that FOTA have the fans best interests at heart when all that really matters to the people who are really in charge there is that the teams who should (?) be at the front are at the front and everyone will therefore be very happy.

      1. And now we have the same situation again,nothing has changed.We’d be fools to think that the FIA will run the sport any differently or allow the sport to be run any differently,and we’d be fools to think that FOTA have the fans best interests at heart when all that really matters to the people who are really in charge there is that the teams who should (?) be at the front are at the front and everyone will therefore be very happy.

        mmmm, well i think you are wrong in that “nothing has changed” part. Mosley got frustrated because teams created FOTA. Mosley said himself: “We are not going to allow FOTA to run F1” (not that FOTA ever had intention of doing so). This turned into battle of power for Mosley rather then rules. Additionally, Mosley has had some overwhelming humiliation which has undoubtedly changed the way he and/or the FIA makes the decisions and especially the way he applies those decisions. Additionally Mosley is getting old and perhaps death of his son has made him even more unbalanced (which is of course unfortunate). But, since Mosley pretty much owns FIA, and since his 2010 regulations for financial control were completely unrealistic and outside of the jurisdiction of FIA, and since HE did not accept the teams veto over those rules, and since he spat the dummy over their disagreement and objection, and since he and/or the FIA did not work to resolve those differences in an ordinarily manner, ..you CAN NOT say that nothing has changed over the way in which FIA apply their rules. In fact, it has been getting worse and worse each year, specially the last year which was triggered by Mosley’s personal humiliation and agenda. Mosley is no longer fit to be the president of the governing body of motor sport.

  41. “Like the Romans in Monty Python’s “The Life of Brian”, Max Mosley gets a fair bit of stick from F1 fans”

    F1 fans in the Life of Brian? Must have missed that part! The championship is clearly older than I thought!

  42. Tom L, you didn’t know that FiA sanctioned the chariot races ?

    1. Tom L, you didn’t know that FiA sanctioned the chariot races ?

      The President was one Maximus Mosleius.The races were organised by Bernius Ecclus.

      Participants included Scuderius Ferrarius and McLarenus Mercedeus.They were joined by other teams in a group known as ‘FOETUS’.

      The rules were quite simple;Scuderius Ferrarius were the ‘home’ team and therefore must always win.This was ensured by what was then known as “Techicalus Vetous” which virtually guaranteed victory.Everyone was happy.LOL

      1. The President was one Maximus Mosleius.The races were organised by Bernius Ecclus.

        Participants included Scuderius Ferrarius and McLarenus Mercedeus.They were joined by other teams in a group known as ‘FOETUS’.

        The rules were quite simple;Scuderius Ferrarius were the ‘home’ team and therefore must always win.This was ensured by what was then known as “Techicalus Vetous” which virtually guaranteed victory.Everyone was happy.LOL

        LOL…

      2. The rules were quite simple;Scuderius Ferrarius were the ‘home’ team and therefore must always win.This was ensured by what was then known as “Techicalus Vetous” which virtually guaranteed victory.Everyone was happy.

        Ahhh, good old times, good old times …

        Brilliant, VXR :-)

  43. This may have been covered elsewhere but I’m rather confused about it.

    Mosley says that FOTA can set up their own series as long as it’s under the International Sporting Code.

    Why?

    The ISC is an FIA thing isn’t it? Surely there’s no obligation for any motorsport to take place under the auspices of the FIA, and in fact, NASCAR Indy Cars and Le Mans don’t have anything to do with the FIA. Presumably the new FOTA series would be the same.

    Why would Max say that?

    1. Because he thinks he is god

    2. @ Gregor
      All the series you mention are governed primarily by national/regional (multinational but not world) organisations as far as I know.

      A rival series to F1 would need an internationally accepted governing/arbitration body accepted and respected by a vast majority of nations if the organizers want any chance at success.

      1. @just me

        Perhaps – but there’s no legal obligation to adhere to the ISC, as Mosley is implying. It just seemed a very strange thing to say.

        If FOTA did choose to launch their own series and chose to stay within the ISC then they’d be under the auspices of the FIA once again and in exactly the same position.

        Perhaps Max hasn’t quite realised that he doesn’t have the final say on every act of motorsport that takes place in the world!

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