Comments on: No easy answers to safety questions posed by Massa and Surtees crashes http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/ F1 Fanatic - The Formula 1 Blog with F1 news, pictures, video, comment and analysis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:34:22 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: JR http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-4/#comment-273623 JR Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:53:11 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273623 "If the spring had come loose on the main straight, and bounced in the stands, who would have been hurt?" Nobody. They are all standing still and protected by chain-link. The most recent example is actually NASCAR about a month ago where an entire car hit the fence. The fence wasn't the problem. It was NASCAR racing doctrine. “If the spring had come loose on the main straight, and bounced in the stands, who would have been hurt?”

Nobody. They are all standing still and protected by chain-link.

The most recent example is actually NASCAR about a month ago where an entire car hit the fence. The fence wasn’t the problem. It was NASCAR racing doctrine.

]]> By: JR http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-2/#comment-273621 JR Wed, 29 Jul 2009 07:48:04 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273621 Funny Name. And not haha funny. I'm from Boston. I'm guessing you are from New York. Typical. Stop giving American race fans a bad rep amongst the Europeans and STFU. Funny Name. And not haha funny. I’m from Boston.

I’m guessing you are from New York. Typical.

Stop giving American race fans a bad rep amongst the Europeans and STFU.

]]> By: Lanny http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-3/#comment-273454 Lanny Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:08:06 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273454 It seems these safety discussions are forgetting the spectators and the course workers. How will improved helmets help them? If the spring had come loose on the main straight, and bounced in the stands, who would have been hurt? In the case of Surtes accident, the wheel tether needs investigated and improved. In the case of Massa, it seems to me that the direction to head is bodywork that can enclose as much of the mechanicals of the car to prevent debris from coming loose and officials that black flag cars at any corner to make them pull off if something is suspect. For those involved during a race weekend - fans, course workers, pit crew, and drivers - the amount of risk these people should be asked to shoulder is different, and the first thought should be to protecting fans and course workers. It seems these safety discussions are forgetting the spectators and the course workers. How will improved helmets help them? If the spring had come loose on the main straight, and bounced in the stands, who would have been hurt?

In the case of Surtes accident, the wheel tether needs investigated and improved. In the case of Massa, it seems to me that the direction to head is bodywork that can enclose as much of the mechanicals of the car to prevent debris from coming loose and officials that black flag cars at any corner to make them pull off if something is suspect.

For those involved during a race weekend – fans, course workers, pit crew, and drivers – the amount of risk these people should be asked to shoulder is different, and the first thought should be to protecting fans and course workers.

]]> By: Oliver http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-273450 Oliver Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:07:43 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273450 The visor did its job, it wont take 2 impacts just one heavy one. Besides with the amount of energy it was exposed to, it had to flex and detach from its pivot. What they can consider is having an extra kevlar layer sandwiched between the inner helmet protection. Also within the weight constraints, have a liquid layer or membrane that has a pressure release valve. In all, you cant have a helmet weighing 5kg that would be dangerous for the driver, as it would maintain its own momentum in a crash and possibly be of more harm to the driver. The visor did its job, it wont take 2 impacts just one heavy one. Besides with the amount of energy it was exposed to, it had to flex and detach from its pivot.

What they can consider is having an extra kevlar layer sandwiched between the inner helmet protection. Also within the weight constraints, have a liquid layer or membrane that has a pressure release valve. In all, you cant have a helmet weighing 5kg that would be dangerous for the driver, as it would maintain its own momentum in a crash and possibly be of more harm to the driver.

]]> By: Bernard http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-3/#comment-273445 Bernard Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:12:13 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273445 <a href="http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/77391" rel="nofollow">link here</a> link here

]]> By: Bernard http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-3/#comment-273444 Bernard Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:11:22 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273444 <strong>Massa could leave hospital in 10 days</strong> <blockquote>Peter Bazso, the medical director of the hospital, told Hungarian TV channel M1 on Tuesday: "My expectation is that he would walk out of the hospital on his own. If his recovery continues at this pace, I wouldn't rule out that he could leave within 10 days." "I would like to point out that although he's recovering, this is not the end of the story, he is still in a life-threatening condition," Bazso said. "Of course, the danger is decreasing by the day."</blockquote> Autosport</a> Massa could leave hospital in 10 days

Peter Bazso, the medical director of the hospital, told Hungarian TV channel M1 on Tuesday: “My expectation is that he would walk out of the hospital on his own. If his recovery continues at this pace, I wouldn’t rule out that he could leave within 10 days.”

“I would like to point out that although he’s recovering, this is not the end of the story, he is still in a life-threatening condition,” Bazso said. “Of course, the danger is decreasing by the day.”

Autosport

]]> By: ranilom http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-273443 ranilom Tue, 28 Jul 2009 12:05:14 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273443 No, they are improved. Now they are 5 mm in thickness and made of a specially treated plexiglass (gazzetta.it). It appears that the visor hold the impact quite well (??) but one of the visor rivet was sheared by the impact. The visor than folded under the spring impact. Probably the latching of the current visor need a design review. No, they are improved. Now they are 5 mm in thickness and made of a specially treated plexiglass (gazzetta.it). It appears that the visor hold the impact quite well (??) but one of the visor rivet was sheared by the impact. The visor than folded under the spring impact. Probably the latching of the current visor need a design review.

]]> By: Bendana http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-1/#comment-273425 Bendana Tue, 28 Jul 2009 09:43:26 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273425 although you have to admit, it would be slightly unnerving fr the driver - you know, the explosives going off around his head. although you have to admit, it would be slightly unnerving fr the driver – you know, the explosives going off around his head.

]]> By: Tim http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-2/#comment-273420 Tim Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:32:11 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273420 What I meant was that how often do you see F1 cars flip on their own, i.e. without having gone off track, without having come into contact with another car? That's what happened to the Mercedes LM cars. The only examples I can think of F1 flipping are Christian Fittipaldi at Monza in 1993 and Riccardo Patrese at Estoril in 1992 - both of those involved cars locking wheels. What I meant was that how often do you see F1 cars flip on their own, i.e. without having gone off track, without having come into contact with another car? That’s what happened to the Mercedes LM cars.

The only examples I can think of F1 flipping are Christian Fittipaldi at Monza in 1993 and Riccardo Patrese at Estoril in 1992 – both of those involved cars locking wheels.

]]> By: Adrian http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/07/27/no-easy-answers-to-safety-questions-posed-by-massa-and-surtees-crashes/comment-page-3/#comment-273409 Adrian Tue, 28 Jul 2009 07:51:51 +0000 http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=23404#comment-273409 But if the hemlmet is made heavier then in the event of a crash it puts a higher strain on the driver's neck. So if they did increase the weight of the helmet then they would also have to improve the evectiveness of the HANS device. I am sure thought that if the top people in the area of helmet design put their minds together and were given a significant enough budget by the FiA and F1 teams then they could come up with an even safer helmet without a significant increase in helmet weight. But if the hemlmet is made heavier then in the event of a crash it puts a higher strain on the driver’s neck. So if they did increase the weight of the helmet then they would also have to improve the evectiveness of the HANS device.

I am sure thought that if the top people in the area of helmet design put their minds together and were given a significant enough budget by the FiA and F1 teams then they could come up with an even safer helmet without a significant increase in helmet weight.

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