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	<title>Comments on: Do the punishments fit the crimes?</title>
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		<title>By: mm</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-1/#comment-279380</link>
		<dc:creator>mm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 16:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-279380</guid>
		<description>What you really mean is Ferrari got off, rather than Renault getting it harsh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you really mean is Ferrari got off, rather than Renault getting it harsh.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrickl</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-2/#comment-279050</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrickl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No it was not a mistake. Look at the replay.

They decided to put a procedure in place that lets the wheel gun man signal that the wheel is ready after he fastens the wheel nut.

After that the wheel nut retainer still needs to be fastenen.

This means they only care that the wheel nut is fastened, but don&#039;t give a hoot about the retainer device being installed.

Realize that the wheel gun guy thought that the wheel nut (and thus the wheel) was installed properly. They are not that stupid.

They only don&#039;t care about the &quot;silly safety measures&quot;. 

They are DELIBERATE taking the risk that the safety device doesn&#039;t get installed. Just to save a few milliseconds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No it was not a mistake. Look at the replay.</p>
<p>They decided to put a procedure in place that lets the wheel gun man signal that the wheel is ready after he fastens the wheel nut.</p>
<p>After that the wheel nut retainer still needs to be fastenen.</p>
<p>This means they only care that the wheel nut is fastened, but don&#8217;t give a hoot about the retainer device being installed.</p>
<p>Realize that the wheel gun guy thought that the wheel nut (and thus the wheel) was installed properly. They are not that stupid.</p>
<p>They only don&#8217;t care about the &#8220;silly safety measures&#8221;. </p>
<p>They are DELIBERATE taking the risk that the safety device doesn&#8217;t get installed. Just to save a few milliseconds.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrickl</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-1/#comment-279040</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrickl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-279040</guid>
		<description>It probably meant that at that moment they didn&#039;t see anything wrong with the move, but they wanted to keep their options open to hand out a penalty after the race if some evidence would come from telemetry or talking to the drivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It probably meant that at that moment they didn&#8217;t see anything wrong with the move, but they wanted to keep their options open to hand out a penalty after the race if some evidence would come from telemetry or talking to the drivers.</p>
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		<title>By: F1Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-1/#comment-279024</link>
		<dc:creator>F1Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-279024</guid>
		<description>I accept that the move by Kimi was different to that of Mark&#039;s. But regardless of that, the move &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; still enough to cause an investigation. However, the investigation came after the race, without good reason. They could have looked at it there and then but didn&#039;t, and that is an inconsistency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I accept that the move by Kimi was different to that of Mark&#8217;s. But regardless of that, the move <em>was</em> still enough to cause an investigation. However, the investigation came after the race, without good reason. They could have looked at it there and then but didn&#8217;t, and that is an inconsistency.</p>
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		<title>By: GooddayBruce</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-2/#comment-278981</link>
		<dc:creator>GooddayBruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-278981</guid>
		<description>props.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>props.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-2/#comment-278941</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-278941</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve said this before and I&#039;ll say it again.

I simply don&#039;t accept the notion that the problem with FIA rulings is that they&#039;re inconsistent, in something like a random manner, either as the result of general incompetence on the part of a given set of stewards, or the fact that the stewards change from race to race.

When I look at FIA rulings, they seem to me to be almost perfectly consistent in serving very clear goals in the FIA&#039;s interests, executing certain personal vendettas, commercial goals and back-room deals and bribes that maintain and extend the stranglehold of power in the governing body.

I think we are supposed to think that events like Spa or Fuji last year were the result of clueless stewards who should have been better trained.  I don&#039;t think they were and we forget how easily these mysterious and generally anonymous people are orchestrated directly by Alan Donnelly, Mosley&#039;s right-hand man who is personally involved in &quot;leading&quot; the stewards in every high-profile case and yet whose name never appears on the stewards&#039; rulings.  For example: who &quot;interviewed&quot; Lewis before the Spa debacle?  Donnelly.  Who are the stewards answering to at every race?  Right.

It&#039;s all too convenient to say &quot;well, shucks, it&#039;s a hard job ruling on all these things in the pressure cooker of an F1 event&quot; and &quot;the rule book is complex and subjective&quot; and put it down to a matter of competence.  It&#039;s actually far simpler than that: the rules themselves are intentionally written with grey area and maximum latitude for race stewards or the WMSC to toy around with, including article 151c, and from there the agenda du jour (most recently the victimization of Dennis, but there have been others) is executed with almost flawless precision.  The patterns are so transparently clear that it beggars belief, and yet we all sit here and talk about competence and how F1 is behind the times.  It&#039;s actually ahead of the times, from Max&#039;s point of view - it works very well indeed.

The decision makers here are highly competent.  The stewards themselves are just avatars and puppets who have the authority to make drudge decisions but are easily steered when push comes to shove.  We serve sinister interests and follow the intended script when we lament the &quot;inconsistency&quot; and &quot;incompetence&quot; of the race stewards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this before and I&#8217;ll say it again.</p>
<p>I simply don&#8217;t accept the notion that the problem with FIA rulings is that they&#8217;re inconsistent, in something like a random manner, either as the result of general incompetence on the part of a given set of stewards, or the fact that the stewards change from race to race.</p>
<p>When I look at FIA rulings, they seem to me to be almost perfectly consistent in serving very clear goals in the FIA&#8217;s interests, executing certain personal vendettas, commercial goals and back-room deals and bribes that maintain and extend the stranglehold of power in the governing body.</p>
<p>I think we are supposed to think that events like Spa or Fuji last year were the result of clueless stewards who should have been better trained.  I don&#8217;t think they were and we forget how easily these mysterious and generally anonymous people are orchestrated directly by Alan Donnelly, Mosley&#8217;s right-hand man who is personally involved in &#8220;leading&#8221; the stewards in every high-profile case and yet whose name never appears on the stewards&#8217; rulings.  For example: who &#8220;interviewed&#8221; Lewis before the Spa debacle?  Donnelly.  Who are the stewards answering to at every race?  Right.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all too convenient to say &#8220;well, shucks, it&#8217;s a hard job ruling on all these things in the pressure cooker of an F1 event&#8221; and &#8220;the rule book is complex and subjective&#8221; and put it down to a matter of competence.  It&#8217;s actually far simpler than that: the rules themselves are intentionally written with grey area and maximum latitude for race stewards or the WMSC to toy around with, including article 151c, and from there the agenda du jour (most recently the victimization of Dennis, but there have been others) is executed with almost flawless precision.  The patterns are so transparently clear that it beggars belief, and yet we all sit here and talk about competence and how F1 is behind the times.  It&#8217;s actually ahead of the times, from Max&#8217;s point of view &#8211; it works very well indeed.</p>
<p>The decision makers here are highly competent.  The stewards themselves are just avatars and puppets who have the authority to make drudge decisions but are easily steered when push comes to shove.  We serve sinister interests and follow the intended script when we lament the &#8220;inconsistency&#8221; and &#8220;incompetence&#8221; of the race stewards.</p>
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		<title>By: sato113</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-2/#comment-278938</link>
		<dc:creator>sato113</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-278938</guid>
		<description>so patrick you&#039;re saying that renault deliberately sent alonso out like that? mental. it was obviously a MISTAKE by the mechanic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so patrick you&#8217;re saying that renault deliberately sent alonso out like that? mental. it was obviously a MISTAKE by the mechanic.</p>
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		<title>By: Ned Flanders</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-1/#comment-278900</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned Flanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 12:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-278900</guid>
		<description>Not the real Ned Flanders... how dare you?!?

I suppose it was it was Ron Dennis that he hates, but Mclaren F1 is effectively Ron Dennis F1 (or at least it was until &#039;liegate&#039;). 

Presumably Ron Dennis retained the Mclaren name not in the memory of Bruce Mclaren and the teams rich history, but because his name would sound daft. Dennis- Mercedes, anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not the real Ned Flanders&#8230; how dare you?!?</p>
<p>I suppose it was it was Ron Dennis that he hates, but Mclaren F1 is effectively Ron Dennis F1 (or at least it was until &#8216;liegate&#8217;). </p>
<p>Presumably Ron Dennis retained the Mclaren name not in the memory of Bruce Mclaren and the teams rich history, but because his name would sound daft. Dennis- Mercedes, anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Collantine</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-1/#comment-278885</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Collantine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-278885</guid>
		<description>The fact that this involved two team mates is irrelevant - they&#039;re still rivals (surely no-one would dispute that Alonso and Hamilton were rivals in 2007?)

The rules certainly don&#039;t make any such distinction, they simply state you can&#039;t impede a rival, which Alonso unquestionably did.

And that makes sense - there&#039;s no reason why the rule shouldn&#039;t apply between team mates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that this involved two team mates is irrelevant &#8211; they&#8217;re still rivals (surely no-one would dispute that Alonso and Hamilton were rivals in 2007?)</p>
<p>The rules certainly don&#8217;t make any such distinction, they simply state you can&#8217;t impede a rival, which Alonso unquestionably did.</p>
<p>And that makes sense &#8211; there&#8217;s no reason why the rule shouldn&#8217;t apply between team mates.</p>
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		<title>By: Daffid</title>
		<link>http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/08/18/do-the-punishments-fit-the-crimes/comment-page-1/#comment-278884</link>
		<dc:creator>Daffid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 11:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/?p=24059#comment-278884</guid>
		<description>Monacco 2006 was between rivals in rival teams, not rivals within the same team. Not a valid comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monacco 2006 was between rivals in rival teams, not rivals within the same team. Not a valid comparison.</p>
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