F1 links: Button ‘won’t cheat like Schumacher’
3rd October 2009, 5:08 by Keith Collantine 33 Comments »
After the Renault scandal it seems several people in F1 are trying to look whiter-than-white. First Ferrari say they’ll give their drivers equals status next year, now Jenson Button is talking about how he won’t copy Schumacher’s tactics of 1994 and 1997:
Jenson Button: I’d never cheat to win title (The Sun)
"That was Schumacher. It's not me. It wouldn't mean so much to me if I forced another driver off or did something during the season like stopping the car on the circuit. I would rather not win the championship unless I win it fairly and squarely. Otherwise you'd always think, 'I've got this title but I cheated'. What is the point of that? It is like doing a running race and taking a short cut and getting a good time. You just don't do it. I know there is a lot of money involved in F1 but, still, it would be just like robbing a bank."
Toyota chief admits company is in rough shape, "grasping for salvation" (Autoblog)
'According to Automotive News, Toyoda says his company is "grasping for salvation".' Will Akio Toyoda pull the plug on Toyota's F1 team?
Toyota chasing Kubica for 2010 (Autosport)
"Toyota is making a major push to beat Renault to Robert Kubica's services for 2010, AUTOSPORT has learned, as the Japanese manufacturer sets its sights on securing a top-line driver pairing."
Silverstone may not come to rescue of British grand prix, warns Damon Hill (The Guardian)
"While Silverstone is keen on inking a long-term contract with Ecclestone, it has little interest in signing for a single year in 2010 if the intention behind such an offer is to give Donington Park an extra 12 months to prepare itself for its debut race. The BRDC, which owns Silverstone, believes that would make no commercial sense."
These are links I’ve bookmarked using Delicious. You can see my Delicious profile here.
mp4-19b said on 3rd October 2009, 8:10
Bravo Button!!! My respect for you has increased 10 folds. Way to go!
Maciek said on 3rd October 2009, 8:47
NIce mouth-off, Jenson. I can just see Schumacher’s expression when he reads that – you know, that expression he used to get, like as if he had smelled something slightly gross out of one nostril?
Off topic: is this the next FIA president and his appointed F1 Commissioner?
F1Yankee said on 3rd October 2009, 10:16
does that mean he’ll cheat like senna?
Sush Meerkat said on 3rd October 2009, 14:33
I wouldn’t call punching Eddie Irvine cheating, I’d call it more your birth given right.
Random Chimp said on 3rd October 2009, 20:11
rofl
Mike "the bike" Schumacher said on 5th October 2009, 22:36
Ya but I’d call running prost off the track cheating. People semm to forget that Schumacher isn’t the only one who has cheated, eg. Senna, Prost.
Maciek said on 5th October 2009, 23:46
it’s all about the consistency with which it is done, and no one has Schumi beat there
Maksutov said on 3rd October 2009, 10:55
Well I still value Schumachers gift and ability that he had.
Lets say Schumacher cheated for half of his championship wins, that still leaves the other half where he didn’t. Which still equates to a record better than any current drivers. Especially Button.
On top of all that, Schumacher was punished appropriately for number of those incidences, and didn’t really get away with it, which really showed us that he is poor at cheating. Regarding team orders or favoritism, well you can blame the team for that. The reality is that statistics are there to show that the Schumacher had excellent consistency which cheating can not buy.
As it stands, in my eyes, Schumacher stands as amongst one of the best drivers F1 has seen, at least in the top 3 for sure. Where as Button who has now shown to buckle under pressure, doesn’t even deserve to make any comments about anyone else, and should probably concentrate on showing us why he deserves the championship.
Ed said on 3rd October 2009, 13:13
I completely agree about Schumacher, but I’d say that any driver is free to judge him for what he did. Buckling under the pressure is certainly no admirable quality (Though certainly a British one!) but it is far better than cheating.
mp4-19b said on 3rd October 2009, 14:35
Who? I’ve seen Finnish,Spanish,Aussie,Brazilian, American,French buckle under pressure than British.
AG said on 6th October 2009, 10:09
Who? Um, English cricket team, football team, rugby team …want me to continue?
dsob said on 3rd October 2009, 14:22
Oh, he was a crackerjack driver, no doubt. And for sheer skill and talent, he rates well up there.
And in all honesty, I’d tend to agree that Schumacher was not an out-and-out cheat. A cheat does things skulkingly and out of sight. Michael was flagrant in most of his escapades, except where team orders were concerned. And to give him due credit, he made his own protest against, or acknowledgement that the team orders had made significant differences, the day he put Rubens on the top step in place of himself.[And didn't that raise merry h3ll?
]
I guess my only problem with Schumacher was that in spite of the team orders and all the other questionable manouverings of Ferrari, he never cried off and went somewhere more …well, ethical. I guess one gets fleas when one lies down with dogs. I’d always hoped to see more out of him.
And I totally agree that Button needs to be concerned just now with Button. He’s gone all weak sister on us, this second half. Not the sort of backbone one thinks of as championship material.
Frankly, I hope Rubens kicks his butt and takes the WDC.
sumedh said on 5th October 2009, 13:14
I second your point.
Branding MSC “a cheat” is not the right way to go Jenson. And definitely not when you haven’t won a race for over 3 months now!!!
A few moments of recklessness by Schumacher are not enough to taint his legacy. No one doubts Alonso’s driving skill even if he tried to blackmail his team boss or he was gifted a race win last year.
No one brands Hamilton a cheat after he tried to pull off a trick at Australia 2009.
You don’t catapult to greatness by just agreeing to a pay cut at the start of the year and winning 6 of the first 7 races.
Win the championship first and make comments in the winter, there will be plenty of time.
Achilles said on 6th October 2009, 7:31
Well that makes it all right then, if you are only 50% of a cheat, however over 90% of Shumi’s wins were realised whilst his team had the best cheat of all…technical veto? or is that just as acceptable? Button has it all to do, Brawn got a chance when the shadow diffuser was considered acceptable, he made hay whilst everyone caught up, now the stewards are playing with the results again, slowing down the Brawn charge so Abu Dhabi gets lots of attention….
The Limit said on 3rd October 2009, 15:15
I have to laugh at some of this nonsense. I always respected Damon Hill as a driver for the way he handled himself following the events of Adelaide 1994. The fact was, that Damon had applied so much pressure to Michael that caused the German to lose the car and run wide.
Hill freely admitted, that he knew that moment was his ‘ONLY’ chance to pass Michael, sadly Michael knew it too. Most drivers, seeing that Williams in their mirrors, and with a championship in the balance, would have turned the steering wheel to the right as Schumacher did.
This applied to Senna and Prost also. The heat of battle, in a person that cannot stand to lose, who has to win, brings out sometimes the worst. Some cross the line, others don’t, but I bet ‘THEY ALL’ contemplate it at some point in their careers.
During Schumacher’s career, you always heard other drivers complaining about his startline chopping or his ruthlessness in general. The only way to combat a guy like that, as Coulthard proved in Magny Cours nearly a decade ago, is to be ruthless too.
Achilles said on 6th October 2009, 8:19
Limit, you are obviously of the mind that anything is acceptable to ‘most drivers’ happily you mention that Hill was very fair in his assessment, but Senna, and Prost? I think Prost would be very insulted that you infer he would do anything that Senna would do, Senna was controversial, Prost was a gifted, and fair driver, not everyone is tarred with the same brush….lol.
David-A said on 27th June 2010, 1:10
I had to laugh at yet more of the jealous rubbish spouted by the anti-Schumacher clan.
pitt layne said on 4th October 2009, 10:47
The Schu was a great driver, I’ll give him that. His record though, is suspect. Never before in the history of the sport did one driver have a whole team to himself for so long as Mike. Ferrari were dry for many years. So understandably, when given the Schu, they ran their campaign in a corporate way. If Mike needed mental security to win then so be it. Whatever it takes to win was the practice, up to and including Austria. Chopping and stopping were utilized as well. It’s all a part of that psychology of “whatever it takes”. If the Schu fits…
DN said on 5th October 2009, 7:46
I wouldn’t call punching Eddie Irvine cheating, I’d call it more your birth given right.
Racing said on 6th October 2009, 1:46
I lost all respect for Schumacher due to consistent controversy. Schumacher lifted Rubens on the podium just to save his own face, not for any other reason, the spectators would probably have lynched him otherwise.
It was just another well calculated cheat by Schumacher, to make him look “honest” in some way.
Did you really fall for also that Schumacher cheat trick?
Nice that Flavio is out from F1 another cheater.
Schumacher is and was a big shame for forumula 1, and he still is. He should not be allowed close to a track.
Not just pushing others off, consistent pushing of regulations. “Team orders = Schumacher orders” call it shared interests, it fitted both the team and Schumachers interests.
At Benetton no filter in the fuel rigs for faster refuelings, ingoring black flag – taking penalty after the finish line “What a joke!”. Pushing Villeneuve, Hill. Having the team mate as a bottle neck on the track. Ferrari cars lap-times delivered from qualifying with an “odd delay”… oh no fingering there?? Haa!
Punished “apropriately” – Haa, I have hard to recall a single time he got punished!
He was fast, but the car was probably less legal the major part of the time, nor fuel rigs, tracktion control, the list goes on and on and on and on and on…
The only driver who was able to “tame” Schumaher was Hakkinen offering a hand shake to Schumacher for fair play before the deciding race. Schumacher knew the media captured that moment, and it was in everyones memories what he had done in previous years – so he would have felt to ashamed to do it once again!
Oh, do you really think it was a former Mercedes worker who run out on the track to spoile Hakkinens race in Germany? Haa! For sure paid to do so by Mr. Schumachers clan, just another nice little cheat that looked so “innocent”… and came just like when Schumacher needed it so urgently.
Schumacher was a cheat and will always be that, it is a big shame F1 could go so currupt and that it could continue for years!
Now, why did not Schumacher step in when Massa got injured, because he knew he would have big troubles of keeping Kimi behind him, and he knows the F60 is a crap car. Oh fitness problems? Haa, he could ride a motorcycle bike on the track anyway… or try to, he is not so good at it.
It is also so much harder to cheat on two wheels so no real two wheel racing for Schumacher, thank god for that! I would certainly not like to see him spoil MotoGP like he did to F1. Even if it must be pretty d-mn interesting in Schueys mind, it could be so much easier to give a fellow rider a small “helpful” kick…
Schumacher put the team behind Massa because it suits him so much better that his former team mate “forced to be number 2″ would succeed better than one of his former rivals on the track.
Now Santanders money brings Alonso to the team, and that can probably keep up Schumachers current salary for his “consulting” job. It is also so convenient for Ferrari to blame Kimi for the teams poor performance this year, despite a crap car Kimi is still 5th in the WDC behind to Brawns and two RedBulls that have dominated the season. Hamilton is likely to pass Kimi in the final standings with a car that now has got quite good performance. Kimi lost motivation? Haa!
Had Hamilton also lost “motivation” or why was the performance from him so poor in the early part of the season? – We all know both Ferrari and McLaren did not have the double diffusor in the early part of the season. Even the best drivers need a proper race car.
I hope Vettel can make us all forget the BIG CHEAT Schumacher. That’s a kid with real speed.
Schumacher is the biggest cheater in top level sports of all times, that title he gets without any competition! I hope we will never ever see anything like it, and it is hardly a title anyone else would desire. Considering Schumachers careers length it is not likely that record will be broken! His titles are not worth the paper they are printed on. But he sure earned a lot of money by cheating like a rat!
SaloolaS said on 6th October 2009, 11:38
I couldn’t agree more!
The Limit said on 6th October 2009, 2:53
Michael Schumacher won so many titles for two really important reasons between 1994 and 2004. He was the best driver, in the best car, end of story!
There were rivals. Hill, Villeneuve, Hakkinen, Montoya, were all and still are world class drivers, but non of them had cars that were as consistenly as good as the ones Schumacher raced.
The perfect example is Hakkinen in 2000. Look at how many times his McLaren let him down, look at how many time Montoya’s Williams gave up on him between 2001 and 2004! Each time, Schumacher and Ferrari benifitted by winning.
Its a shame Schumacher was not ten years older, then we could have seen him race Mansell, Prost, Piquet, and Senna. That would end this conversation once and for all, wouldn’t it?
Martin said on 6th October 2009, 3:27
I for one loved the fights between hakkinen and schu. They raced each other fairly and gave each other no quarter. If you look hakkinen was the only driver out there that remotely intimedated schu. He was the respected one and all the others were moving chicanes for him. That includes some othe drivers who won wdc’s while competing against him. Maybe schu saw some of hakkinen in kimi and that was why he reccommended him for the position as he was leaving.
I also believe that schu would have raced pretty well against the drivers that you have mentioned as he was strong willed and his personality didnt allow defeat. I believe he would have been a great adverary to senna. He would have treated senna differently than prost did and would probably got into his head better. But the cars and reliability also played into those guys winning percentages more than schu. The ferrari engines especially have been very reliable for the last several seasons, even before the rpm restrictions.
Racing said on 6th October 2009, 3:30
Now to Jason,
He needs to drive! Sadly, I cannot see him as the real WDC even if he would be crowned. The results in the early part of the season was down to that a few teams had found a loop-hole in the regulations, or if you like, at the rear end of the car.
It was again sad that rather than staying to how the reulations were ment to really be intrepreted FIA chose to allow at least morally cheating teams to continue, and forced thereby all other (honest) teams to follow in the loop hole.
Remember, the intent had been to make it easier to over-take other drivers on the track, part of that was also lost by this decision.
Ironically for F1 it was not an very economical solution either to have the major part of all teams to re-design the rear end of their cars if they wanted to become competitive.
Simlarly it is a bit surprisng that Alonso could keep his Singapore 08 win, regardless if he knew about the forced safety-car or not…
I bet he didn’t know! ; )
Alonso is still a real race driver but he got a dark spot now. Again a bit ironic that immediately after proving he got away with it the Ferrari contract was signed… – A driver who proved himself very suitable for Ferrari then, I guess?
So it is obvious, Kimi has to go!
Kimi is just driving fast, not any interest in spending time on how to gain unfair advantage! Out and quickly. – It is obviously no point to pay Schumacher for consulting services if your driver intends to race on fair in a fair way! OUT, OUT, OUT, KIMI! GO NOW WE KNOW YOU ARE QUICKEST OUT THERE, but we need to manipulate (Schumacher would say “mohneypulate”)
Vettel has dominated in the latter part of the season, when the differences have been somewhat equalised,
to me he is the real champion this year.
It would also be so much nicer to see a RedBull with decent liverly to win the F1 championship, than a Brawn that must take the price of one of the ugliest cars in the history. If LEGO would sponsor Brawn one could maybe somehow understand the childish and totally tasteless stripes on their cars, then one could possibly laugh about it. Now it is just ugly!
Jason is desperate, and it shows! He did not know Nico made the pit-stop in the perfect moment in Japan, and assumed therefore Nico had been speeding.
In his desperation he hoped to collect even one extra point by pointing at Rosberg.
Good to hear that Jason will not use Schumacher tactics, but I did not assume he would either, he appears to be far to honest for such moves!
Credits for that, but the comment appears more like yet an indication of his knowledge he is about to lose the title. One DNF and then a desperate first lap crash for Jason, and we find a new champion with an edge, like Vettel.
Oh, what about Rubens? Well, for the same reason (the loop-hole in the regulations) I would not really give him credits for the WDC. He looks otherwise better now when he does not need to play second driver in the team, but he had to tell Mr Brawn pretty sharply that we was not impressed. But he has been racing!
Oh, oops! Related to the previous post it happens to be that same Mr. Brawn who was so used to have Rubens as the second driver at Ferrari, when the BIG CHEAT Schumacher had to handed all the better positions in the races. Now we know Rubens is likely to retire or go to another team, probably retire even if he does not seem to lack motivation
…
See Rubens, you should not stick up your nose to former members of the Schuey mafia! It is a sure way to be punished… even if you might just be able to snatch the title from Jason, but I guess the team manipulations that frustrated you earlier on already have made secured the final order in the point standings for the Brawn drivers.
It is Jasons to lose and he certainly looks unsecure. Not really like he would be a worthy champion fighting desperately for the last points in each race somewhere from the middle of the pack, beaten by his team-mate in qualifying. That does not look like a true champion!
Excuses of collecting some points with consistently does not really sound convincing. It appears like Jason mentally acknowledges that he is GOING TO LOSE THE TITLE!
It is Vettels to win, and he might really do it!
It would be good for F1 with a real champion from Germany instead of the lousy and highly over-rated full time chater and sports disgrace Michael Schumacher.
Unfortuntely some less smart will call Vettel the next Schumacher if he wins. I would probably sue (just not to write smack) the journalist who would write such a thing about me if I was Vettel, cause that is the biggest INSULT one can get as a honest race-driver!
I really really hope Vettel takes the title and that mor0ns doesn’t compare him with the biggest cheater in sports history.
Racing said on 6th October 2009, 5:12
To the limit. Schumachers formula 1 career is full of cheats and controversy from the very beginning to the the end. That is a clear behavioural pattern, I would be more surprised if the car he raced actually was legal in any single race he took part of!
Therefore, I do not give him credit for any of those victories, a dark clound always hangs over all his “acheivements”.
Schumacher was undoubtly quick, but WHY? The margins in F1 are so small that any extra benefit gained can decide a race.
If I recall correctly, the only time BAR Honda and Jason really shined for a small amount if tume, until they where caught of cheating with an extra tank within the in the fuel tank, gives an indication of this.
“Thanks to” this “fuel” arrangement they were able to drive the car underweight between the fuel stops. They had however made their inner tank in a very clumsy way, and were easily caught. Cheating is not for honest people, or amateurs, it is for cheating professionals! I would NOT be surprised if Schumacher had a dobule walled tank in his car for years!
He was a professional cheater, and the solutions made was also well engineered NOT to be detected even if scrutineering was made. Schumachers crash when he broke his leg, was also an odd one, and it happended just a few bends after the start. I am pretty convinced that Schumacher made a mistake when he fiddled with some unlegal electronics settings in the car, or forgot to change something that gave him and edge in the start…
Therefore the crash. Did you ever hear some convincing explanation to the crash?
Flexible floorplan in the Ferrari, revealed just when Schumacher quitted driving. Had Schumacher had this benefit for years? Possibly. It is not at all certain that his team mates had this extra and very handy downforce device. The flexible floor pan was engineered to pass the testing force FIA uses, and immediately after this flex considerable amounts. Acheived with a leaf spring construction in the floor plan. Smart.
A very Schumacher kind of cheating device, well planned and engineered. Only an internal leak revealed the cheat.
The revealing of the floor pan came in at a very handy time for Schumacher – that is just when he had quit, and when his former rival Kimi came to the team.
I beleive this was no co-incidence. An big unfair advantage that Schumacher had benefitted from for seasons was to much to give away to a former rival like Raikkonen. Schumacher made sure the leak happened, oh he can afford to pay a bit for confidential silence.
So some head had to fall after some small “arrangemets” by the Schumacher clan.
Schumachers patologic pattern of cheating fits perfectly the former behaviour. Even after “acheiving” several world championships cheating one way or another “to become the greatest driver ever”, he (Schumacher) is extremely scared that someone could acheive more or even match his record. He is extremely afraid that any driver could show similar performance for even one season, especially a former rival.
Schumacher is afraid of being forgotten or that people could say NN is doing as well as Schumacher, or EVEN worse, NN is even quicker than Schumacher ever was!
NN has filled Schumachers position fully!
The “spy-gate”…. Again this fits both Ferrari and Schumacher tactics, afraid of losing the constructors championship to McLaren they decide to feed a lot of (perhaps not so useful) information about the car to an engineer at McLaren, a “too big temptation” for an engineer who wants to figure out why the Ferrari is fast. Even if he would not like to cheat, he want’s to know why and more importantly how this extra speed is acheived in terms of engineering already from professional perspective.
Oh, How incredibly easy! They (McLaren) took the bait!
Then “we” just reveal the leak and point at your rivals, cause a small “chaos”. A nice way to make some extra mental stress for your rivals when they suddenly have to prepare for legal proceedings just when they are supposed to focus on the world championship!
The Schumacher mob had indeed planned this with their own legal team well ahead. So it is only to create some media buzz here. Ok we have to pay off our own “leak” but he get’s a nice retirement : )
Indeed this kind of scandal will have an impact on the team at all levels, causing distraction, extra stress ,uncertainty, worries and hopefully some loss of vital focus on the racing. Even crucial errors in the preparations. And a lot of media around them with nasty questions!
- Perfect plan, and it worked out just as planned…
He-he, now we got rid of Ron Dennis, we did cut a big hole in McLarens budget…
How to get an further advantage…
What about SPONSORS?
– How to steal your main competitors sponsor?
Aah! What if we sign the driver who left after the internal struggles in the team, but who brought their main sponsor to them… let’s see both Spanish… Yeah,…. – Good plan : ) – Let’s try it!
Even better, let us advance the plan by one year ; ) So they have less time to react…
While McLaren are looking for a new main sponsor we have good time to focus on next years car!
Call it proper german sicilian “game-tactics” on and off the track, do anything to gain a benefit…
OK, part of the above is pure speculation and well educated “guesses”, part already well documented as facts. Schumacher knows that most people will forget the “details” of the season. People in general will only remember the final championship standings.
And he got paid for the final positions…
And most people will not like to change their view (humans do not like to change their an already formed perception), not even if the evidence against it (or rather Schumacher in this case) is on the table.
Schumacher, Not stupid, very fast – at least when cheating. We will never know how fast he would have been in a legal car, or if he ever drove a car that was within the F1 regulations.
- So, much for the record…
No doubt, a very committed driver to racing – and cheating!
rampante said on 7th October 2009, 19:47
How can people who watch and love F1 come out with so much c**p? In this link Shumacher was a cheat along with Senna,Prost and alonso. What planet do you all live on or have you all been watching for 2 years? Shumacher tried to do Villeneuve and that was wrong, he lost all points and was removedfrom the championship. Hill made an ar*e of it, Shu made a mistake and if Hill was any driver at all he would of backed off and been WDC. Button is a mid field driver who has done very little and this year in a car that was embarassingly quick at the start has shown when the rest caught up what he really is.Shumacher has every record in the book, live with it. I know he is German ( and who won the war) and he drove for the team that has the envy of every other. What next? The ball did cross the line in 66′ Germany cheated to win 4 football world championships, Italy were lucky to win 4 and Brazil bought 5. Take the sandals and napkins of your heads and think about it please
F12009 said on 8th October 2009, 4:54
Just because you say “I won’t cheat like Schumi”, that doesn’t make you a driver half as good as the legend.
Win it with authority Jenson because that’s what MS did for most of his championships, unlike what you are doing now.
Steve said on 8th October 2009, 12:13
Whats with the ‘IF’ shu raced when Senna was around ?? He WAS around when Senna was racing. It was brief and it was at different times in their careers, but if you do your homework you will notice that shu actually did get under Senna’s skin and ruffled his feathers. Did anyone notice that Shu was the man who saw Senna’s crash/death better than anyone ? Because he was right behind him !
As for comparing Hill to shu. Please ! Hill had a much better car and still was given a hard time by a much more competent driver in Shu.
The reason why shu was such a force was because he was a masterful driver as well as being able to influence. encourage and bring out the best from his team, hence a great car, more so than any other driver past and present. Even more so than Senna, who was also good at it.
His moments of brilliance far surpass his dodgy moments.
And just for the record, my favorite driver was the Professor.
Steve
David Oakley said on 17th May 2010, 13:59
Without Schumacher F1 is boring how dare he try to overtake another driver he’s a born racer he was so good they had to change the rules in 2004/5 to stop him winning and thats the truth, and when they did that I stopped watching F1 its a farce, Schumacher is a winner and the greatest driver ever and winners are something we don’t like in Britain. I think Jenson is a great driver but he will never be in the class of Schumacher, Im British but I admire winners!
Liaz said on 26th June 2010, 16:53
Calling “the greatest driver ever” someone who can NOT qualify in Q3 for 2 races in a row reduces the credibility of the sport.Great men are judged for their actions in critical and bad moments…Schumacher tried to fool billions of fans and damaged the sport by his actions….Schumacher was nothing more than a German who pretended to be an Italian…you cann’t cheat if you do not have it in your blood!
newnhamlea1 said on 26th June 2010, 17:05
i wouldnt be too critical, if you look at nico, he also failed to make q3, its an equipment problem not a shcumacher problem.
David-A said on 27th June 2010, 1:03
“Great men are judged for their actions in critical and bad moments”
@Liaz- But don’t you need the good moments, like winning championships and races, or some sort of flamboyant style to even be considered great in the first place? Nelson Piquet Jr. had plenty of “critcal and bad moments” but was he great? *facepalm*