NASCAR feels the Michael Schumacher effect thanks to Jimmie Johnson

Jimmie Johnson in action at Bristol Motor Speedway

Jimmie Johnson in action at Bristol Motor Speedway

Domination by one driver was the name of the game in F1 in the first half of the decade. Michael Schumacher and Ferrari swept all before them as he won five consecutive drivers’ championships.

But that sort of thing doesn’t happen in NASCAR, where every race is decided by a slipstreaming battle to the chequered flag and a 20-car pile-up. Does it?

Actually it does – Californian Jimmie Johnson is on the verge of an historic fourth consecutive championship win. But is it causing NASCAR fans to switch off in the way many F1 fans did in the Schumacher years?

Like Schumacher, Johnson has equalled the record for the most consecutive championship wins in his category. Schumacher matched (and later exceeded) Juan Manuel Fangio’s record of four. Last year Johnson reached Cale Yarborough?s previously unmatched three consecutive NASCAR titles.

And like Schumacher, Johnson is now poised to raise the bar even higher. With five races left to run in 2009 he leads the championship with 5,923 points to Mark Martin’s 5,833. (NASCAR’s complicated points system is explained here). Here’s how their seasons of dominance compare so far:

Michael Schumacher

2000: F1 world champion, 9/17 wins
2001: F1 world champion, 9/17 wins
2002: F1 world champion, 11/17 wins
2003: F1 world champion, 6/16 wins
2004: F1 world champion, 13/18 wins

Jimmie Johnson

2006: NASCAR champion, 5/36 wins
2007: NASCAR champion, 10/36 wins
2008: NASCAR champion, 7/36 wins
2009: NASCAR championship leader, 6/31 wins, five races remaining

Yes, Johnson’s race wins hit-rate is nothing like as strong as Schumacher’s – but that says more about the differences between NASCAR and F1. With a huge field of entries, very tight technical regulations, more than twice as many races as F1, and multi-car pile-ups commonplace, NASCAR is harder for one man to dominate.

One-driver domination rarely makes for an entertaining championship. F1 discovered this in the Schumacher years: even at Schumacher and Ferrari’s home races (all four of them) ticket sales began to dip and TV ratings suffered as the red team pole-axed their rivals week in, week out. Now NASCAR has the same problem.

F1′s governing body reacted by trying to make the championship harder to win. In 2003 points were extended down to eighth place and second suddenly became worth eight points instead of six, while a win remained valued at ten. The aim of the change was clear: the FIA did not want the world championship being decided in July again.

Will NASCAR follow suit and try to find some artificial means of putting obstacles in Jimmie Johnson’s way?

And will F1 one day see a repeat of Schumacher-like levels of dominance by another driver-team combination? Who among today’s drivers could do it?

I don’t follow NASCAR much beyond reading the race write-ups in Autosport, so I’d be especially interested to hear what NASCAR-watchers think of Johnson and how his championship streak compares with Schumacher’s.

NB. I’m not getting myself tied up in NASCAR’s sponsor-based title definitions. Suffice to say when I say ‘NASCAR champion’ I mean whatever the premier category was called in that year, be it the Sprint/NEXTEL/Winston/whatever Cup.

NASCAR and F1

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79 comments on NASCAR feels the Michael Schumacher effect thanks to Jimmie Johnson

  1. So that’s why they call it the “Sprint” cup. I’d also like to rant about the silly gimmicky blue trophys handed out in Brazil last weekend, but I won’t. Promise :)

    Of the current drivers, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, and maybe Vettel and Kubica could dominate if they had the right car. Alonso/Raikkonen/Hamilton probably could have won 5 straights chapmionships if they had driven for Ferrari from 00-05.

    • Lol those trophies were…. “different”

      • BT52/B said on 22nd October 2009, 10:53

        They were designed by 100-year old brazilian architect Oscar Niemeyer and were made from ethanol substances and is, according to the organizers, the first recyclabe and “ecologically correct” formula one trophy, not that anyone cares (I’m sure Mark Webber thought “great, now I can throw it the trash if I have to”).

        • This dude knew something ;-) Who would ever consider throwing their throphy away to be recycled … unless you know there’s gonna be a totally unimportant (for the championship) podium three? ;-)

          • TMFOX said on 22nd October 2009, 16:30

            What I want to know is why they felt the need for the backing of the podium to have a Plasma/LCD/LED/Whatever screen??

          • Fergal said on 22nd October 2009, 23:58

            @TMFOX…

            YES! I noticed that too… I thought the backdrop was falling over at first!

  2. I only looked at it cause I’m bored but god that’s a crappy way to give out points, I can see where V8 Supercars got their stupid system from.

    1st 185
    2nd 170
    3rd 165
    4th 160
    5th 155
    6th 150
    7th 146
    8th 142
    9th 138
    10th 134

    According to that, finishing 10th is 72% as good as 1st!?!?!? What were they smoking when they came up with that?

    • ajokay said on 22nd October 2009, 10:15

      Agreed. The NASCAR points system seems to be very stupid. End of.

      • BT52/B said on 22nd October 2009, 10:54

        American sports tend to be very complicated in their logic, especially to foreigners (I still don’t understand how baseball season is not over…).

        • I think the point system in Nascar is designed around the style of driving and racing. There are many cars and they use different techniques (drafting, bumping, etc). They don’t go out there and try to pull away from the track. It’s more like cycling, when the pack is trying to stay together until the end, then break away for the finish. Thus, lots of point and points that go deep will reward the drivers that are always at the front. (I could be wrong…I don’t follow Nascar and only like it when they are on road courses and not ovals).

          To expand on Kieth’s question, I wonder how much driver development there is in Nascar. It can’t be as much as F1 becasue the cars are not as ‘developed’. But, if Jimmy has nothing to do with the car development and he just gets in a drives…then it’s a bit different than Shumy. Also, the comment above about Ham, Raik, and Alonso being able to win 5 WDC in the 00-05 Ferrari is kinda off. Shumy got to Ferrari and they were dogs…he developed the car with unparalleled devotion (sleeping at the test track) and made the car what it is. The fact is, the 00-05 LIKELY would not have been the car it was without Shumy.

        • The baseball season, like basketball, is stretched more than a bit for profit and TV money..there is no good reason why the ALCS game 5 should not have been played lastnight, except for the money.

          But if the Yankees are playing and winning their 27th championship, I’m not complaining :)

          • Wesley said on 22nd October 2009, 19:34

            @ Gman
            When we finally get our USGP back hopefully we can meet up,watch a race and I will sit next to you in my RED SOX hat….ha..ha..ha!You’re OK for a Yankee fan though.

            It struck me funny that Keith bothered to to post a NASCAR story and the first several comments are not related to the article at all….can’t say I blame you guys though,I live in NASCAR country and I don’t bother myself with it.Round and round,CRASH,round and round some more,CRASH…boring.I did see Richard Petty race once when I was a kid because my Dad was a fan.

          • Hey, I’ll show up with my Braves hat!..not quite the rivalry of the Yanks/Sox….

          • Wesley said on 22nd October 2009, 23:03

            @ mfDB
            Are you from Atlanta?I live twenty minutes from Turner Field.

          • UniRacer said on 23rd October 2009, 22:31

            wow! And I’m in the shadow of Stone Mountain! Thanks for being here.

        • Fer no.65 said on 22nd October 2009, 22:14

          Because they hate sports that are decided right away or finish tied in the end…

          that’s why they don’t like football (soccer). Could you imagine an american going to the stadium to see his team TIE??? IMPOSSIBLE.

          They like the kind of suspense till the end. That’s why they like oval races, because the first laps are pointless… the thing is who gets ahead on the last lap.

          Same with NBA. 7 matches on the final is way too much. But they love it. Because it’s possible they could end up watching the whole 7 matches to see who wins in the end.

          They love that “drama” i guess…

          that’s the most logical explanation i got :P

    • Martin said on 22nd October 2009, 22:15

      Nascar(Nextel/Sprint cup) is more about the show than the race. The organizers have also been known to give a particular person favor to win a championship or 2.
      the points system was refined over several years of racing to keep it close and keep the fans involved. They purposely inhibit technology to keep it competitive. They get 5 points more for winning than the 2nd place car, they get 5 points for pole and 5 points for leading a lap as well as most laps lead. Theorectically you could come in 2nd and walk away with more points than the winner. It is apples and oranges though compared to F1.
      The fan base and TV ratings have been falling for the same reason as track attendance has…people arent as interested in it as they were because the characters have changed, and some of the new racers dont bring out the fans even though they produce better racing. Johnson winning the last 3 and proabaly this one isnt the whole reason. If Dale Earnhart was alive and was winning 4 in a row the stands would be full of Dale lovers and dale haters(There wasnt a 3 choice), economy and job situations also play into it but the dynamic is just larger than the domination of 1 driver.
      I live just a couple of hours from the center of all the major racing teams and have several friends that work for teams in the sport and they will tell you that it is a complicated system, and that the sport doesnt want 1 team to dominate every race, they want a variety of winners and the sport rewards consistency more than anything else. With a 40+ filed racing almost every weekend if you can consistently finish in the top 10 your team will do well. Then the sponsorship really begins to pay off. Most of these teams run with a budget of well under 10million US and some run with as little as 2Million US. Everyone in the sport makes good money(not great) and the fans get to see the races for a reasonable fee as there are som many races,plus the weekend also has several supporting series that also adds to the value. The track owners make very good money as they arent raped by the organizers and they dont have to worry about the TV rights as that is property of Nascar.
      It is a much better system for the fans, track owners and teams in general, and no ONE PERSON IS GETTING RICH at the expense of a city or country. The track doesnt neccessarily loose its place over money to somebody like Bernie.
      The scoring system is horrible but the rest of F1 could learn a thing or 2 from Nascar.

  3. NASCAR racing isn’t slipstream battles to the line. That’s definitely more on course for the IRL at oval races. There are only four superspeedway (drafting) races out of the 36. That’s only twice as much as the two road courses. The fast majority of races occur on an intermediate 1.5 mile oval, just a matter of how banked and fast it is. Plus there are several short tracks and flat one-milers.

    The racing is much more open (1-43 positions) because of the number of entries, but the competition is almost as lock-step as F1 is. After the first ten races, huge increases or decreases in point rankings are few and far between. Now, the top half of the field typically DNFs (crashes or mechanical retirements) three or four races out of 36. It’s not uncommon for a Champion to finish every race but one. That’s a vast contrast to Formula One 2008. With half the number of races.

    • F1Yankee said on 22nd October 2009, 8:02

      don’t forget, with the races spanning hours, it’s not unusual for retirements to re-emerge from the garage to circulate and accumulate a handful more points.

    • Great analysis from both of you dudes…who ever said that F1 and NASCAR fans were so far apart?

  4. F1Yankee said on 22nd October 2009, 7:57

    nascar is a hair away from being a homogeneous spec class, with just enough room to cheat creatively. despite the enforced parity, there was the same situation (tony stewart wrapping up the title early, multiple years in a row – without the most wins no less!) a few years ago. since points are awarded left, right and center, consistency earns the title. the result was this faux-playoff system where the top 10 or so have points reset and fight it out for the title over the last 10 races (with a full field).

    i don’t follow nascar, but i do think there are things f1 can take to improve it’s own category:
    1. extend points to 10th, especially with the larger fields expected.
    2. increase the points value for wins.
    3. give fans full-blown tv and internet video material.
    4. race more often. obviously, crossing the globe is much harder and time-consuming than crossing the US, but i think there is room for more races without going 11 months.

    • DGR-F1 said on 22nd October 2009, 8:16

      F1 could also:
      1. Give points for Pole Position after Qualifying, to encourage all the Drivers to try their best.
      2. Give points for Fastest Lap during the race, which might encourage safe overtaking
      3. Have a Rookie Championship to encourage the young ‘uns to better driving and encourage Teams to have ‘em in the first place
      4. And why not points for the most places gained during a race? This would also encourage safe overtaking…..
      And if that mixture doesn’t stop one Team or Driver dominating, nothing will…

      • 1. Give points for Pole Position after Qualifying, to encourage all the Drivers to try their best.

        Pole is enough of a reward in itself.

        2. Give points for Fastest Lap during the race, which might encourage safe overtaking

        That’s been done before, from 1950 through 1960, IIRC.

        3. Have a Rookie Championship to encourage the young ‘uns to better driving and encourage Teams to have ‘em in the first place

        That’s an idea, either a rookie championship and/or an independent’s title for non-manufacturer teams.

        4. And why not points for the most places gained during a race? This would also encourage safe overtaking…..
        And if that mixture doesn’t stop one Team or Driver dominating, nothing will…

        A nice idea, but it’s too complicated for Average Joe to comprehend, I think.

      • Personally I think the way points are awarded at the moment, for where you finish, is perfectly fine, the only change I would be likely to make is change the spread of points to make a win worth more.

        Pole Position is enough of an advantage in F1 without the need to award points for it, granted under the current system someone may have qualified on just a few laps of fuel and ruin their race to try and get Pole, but personally I wouldn’t want to encourage that.

        Awarding points for fastest lap would not encourage safe overtaking, the only incentive for overtaking is to finish higher in the classification. Points for fastest lap would mean drivers who are out of the points coming in late on to get new tyres and try to do a quick lap, like Webber did in Japan when he was a few laps down.

        The problem with a Rookie Championship is that some years you wouldn’t get enough new drivers to make it worthwhile. Only teams at the back may be encouraged to employ a rookie driver just for that Championship, and traditionally that is where new driver have started anyway.

        As for points for most places gained during a race, I wouldn’t want things like this to go toward the proper Championships, and while it makes a nice statistic to look at who gained the most places. It will always be biased against those starting at the front and favour people in fast cars starting near the back like in Brazil.

        • othernik said on 22nd October 2009, 10:51

          Points for fastest lap would mean drivers who are out of the points coming in late on to get new tyres and try to do a quick lap, like Webber did in Japan when he was a few laps down.

          I don’t think that’s all bad… Sometimes in the closing laps I wonder what a good car/good driver could have done with some clear air and fresh slicks when they get stuck at the back because of bad luck.

          • BT52/B said on 22nd October 2009, 11:03

            Curious fact: If F1 gave points for fast laps in 2008 Massa would have been champion…

            another extreme ideia would be inverting grid positions for the races…

            But, honestly, F1 should learn how to market the sport better. This is something that has bothered me for a while; many people complain that the sport has the lost the glow it had in the 80′s, but if you look back a lot of the races were decided by retirements and crashes. Formula one in the 2000′s has had great races and so-so ones, I don’t see anything awful in it.

            Maybe making the driver’s more PR friendly and more acessible to fans might help a lot. And it can be done with simple things like an “autograph day” in the racetrack.

  5. Somewhat off-topic, but I find it odd that a championship that has only 3 races that run less than 400 miles is called ‘Sprint’ Cup. ;)

  6. wasiF1 said on 22nd October 2009, 8:59

    Keith,don’t turn this as Nascar Fanatic.com.uk

  7. Brendan said on 22nd October 2009, 9:13

    I’m surprised that you could write an article about how NASCAR decides the championship without mentioning the “Chase”. A quote from the article you linked:

    As of the 2007 season NASCAR changed The Chase format. Points are tallied after 26 races and the top twelve in points are locked into the final ten race Chase for the NASCAR Sprint Cup. All twelve drivers will have their points manually set to 5,000 plus ten points for every race that they won during the first 26 races of the season.

    That’s right–for the last 10 races, only 12 drivers in the field are fighting for anything.
    The points being essentially reset also means that those last 10 races are significantly more important to the championship standings than the 26 previous races. Think about it: winning a “Chase” race gets you 185 points towards the final points tally at the end of the Chase. Winning a non-Chase race only gets you 10 points towards the final points tally.

    The Chase was instituted for the same reason that Bernie keeps pushing his “medals” scheme–to make drivers go for wins, instead of rewarding consistency. The difference is, NASCAR’s solution creates an artificial break in the schedule and rewards consistency in the first 26 races, then go-for-broke racing in the final 10. It follows the NASCAR attitude that this is entertainment first, and a sport second.

    • Ned Flanders said on 22nd October 2009, 10:46

      Yeah it’s not as though NASCAR haven’t already tried to prevent dominant seasons. Reseting 10 drivers points mid season is about as artificial as it gets.

      If that happened in F1, one thing is certain. Jenson Button would not be champion…

  8. pitt layne said on 22nd October 2009, 9:33

    Nascar is fine as it is. The spec-style cars comes from safety considerations, costs, and the elimination of certain “showroom” car bodies dominating one make over another. With the 10 race playoffs system, the champion is the one that does the best in 10 races. That’s it. The connection of F1 and Cup is the lack of excitement from the current champions. Both Jimmie Johnson and Jenson Button are the so-called young, good-looking, having attractive girlfriend/ wife type of athletes. But, they are as boring as white paint. As a form of entertainment, we’d like to see those former qualities matched with some brashness and emotion. These guys don’t have. At least Lewis bangs Pussycat Dolls, takes awesome risks, made mistakes, and showed emotion. Not “I want some time alone to call my girlfriend”. Tony Stewart does well on the track but he brings excitement too. The buying public needs that. You either have it or you don’t. I’ll go with Red vs. Silver in 2010.

  9. pitt layne said on 22nd October 2009, 9:41

    There is no Schumacher effect in Cup, or in F1 currently, thank God. The Schumacher effect is “Team Orders” from day one, every day, ’til the end. If you are supposedly that good, then show it, without Team Orders. Oh, too late.

  10. stjoslin said on 22nd October 2009, 10:02

    Geeezze, that points system really needs a second reading – Makes F1 look simple.

    Any domination of a sport by one person is negative, however it makes the achievement of beating them even better when they finally do break the deadlock

    I don’t follow nascar closely – I occasionaly listen out for Montoya’s results.

    Perhaps everyone else needs to do a better job.

    • F1 point system is easy compared to NASCAR. And you are right everyone else needs to step up if they want to win the Cup.

  11. Mandy said on 22nd October 2009, 10:11

    The good news is, Jimmie Johnson’s dominance is driving a certain number of NASCAR fans to turn to F1 for competitive racing (that’s how I finally managed to “convert” my dad, actually). I know a lot of people are skeptical re: USF1, but I hope the team is successful, even if they have to hire at least one non-American veteran driver to get their start. Bored NASCAR fans. combined with an American team and/or driver in F1, could mean a growing American F1 fan base (a return of the US GP wouldn’t hurt either, and even though I’m from Indy, I’ll admit there are better tracks for that event!).

  12. GeeMac said on 22nd October 2009, 10:27

    All I think of when I think of NASCAR is:

    Left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left MASSIVE CRASH!!!! SAFETY CAR SAFETY CAR SAFETY CAR left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left MASSIVE CRASH!!! SAFETY CAR SAEFTY CAR left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left.

    How anyone can watch it is beyond me.

  13. F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport. However, Nascar is FAN FRIENDLY. It looks to me that ALL the teams in Nascar make money. It also looks like Nascar management doesn’t bleed the series in terms of huge staging fees that automatically escalate each year. (Bernie) Nascar has faults, (very confusing points system) but frankly, it seems like a better business model.

    • Journeyer said on 22nd October 2009, 12:03

      Perception is one thing, reality quite another. when you see big-name outfits like Dale Earnhardt Inc. (DEI) and Ganassi nearly fold and have to merge just to stay alive, you know something’s wrong. Montoya may have ensured Ganassi’s medium-term future and stability, but it could easily have been a very different story.

      Some are saying ratings have also begun to decline. When there’s less money to go around, can they still sustain their business model? It’s a tough ask,

      • Great discussion guys. What I have learned from being an F1 fan and keeping an eye on NASCAR is that both sports have many of the same issues in their own respective ways…and that includes financial hardships. While NASCAR may be better off than many thought it would at the start of the recession, there are teams facing financial obstacles just like with F1.

    • Martin said on 22nd October 2009, 22:23

      You understand better than most about the series then. Everybody makes money and no one get rich off of everyone elses labor(Bernie)

  14. Never say never, but I doubt one driver and team will dominate in F1 again like Schumacher and Ferrari, just because all the different conditions that need to happen for a situation like that to arise again.

    When before has a team been on top for such a long period of time and had a clear number one driver for that whole stretch.

    I remember in response to criticism of the Ferrari/Schumacher domination some said that McLaren and Williams dominated for large parts in the 1980s and 1990s but it just wasn’t the same.

    Firstly neither team managed to be on top for as many years in succession before another team managed to successfully challenge them.

    Secondly McLaren and Williams usually tried to get the best two drivers available and let them race against each other, even when it cost the team Championships, so even though McLaren totally dominated 1988 because they had Senna and Prost there was still a great battle for the championship.

  15. Travis R said on 22nd October 2009, 12:04

    I used to watch NASCAR until about a year and a half ago. There are just so many aspects of it that got boring, and part of that is definitely the Jimmie Johnson factor. I got nothing against the guy – matter of fact, I would probably get along with him very well if I knew him – but he is the epitome of a corporate shill when the microphone is in his face. He is well-trained to gives very standard “thank the sponsors and the guys back at the shop” types of interviews, and shows little emotion. Other things include:

    - Predictable “debris” cautions that bring out the safety car and bunch up the field, usually with about 20 laps to go (note that on some smaller ovals, a lap can take less than 15 seconds). This creates artificially close finishes. The NASCAR sporting regulations are not public either, which gives a sense of “we’ll make up the rules as we see fit.” I have no trust whatsoever in the sanctioning body. As is becoming too commonplace in motorsport today, the organizations that find a way to excel are punished, rather than having the organizations that don’t try to step up their game.

    - A saturation of “cookie cutter” tracks – most of the tracks that NASCAR races on are owned by the same corporation (ISC) which happens to be owned by the family who also owns NASCAR. Many of these tracks are 1.5 mile D-shaped ovals – they are all very alike. If you like oval racing, you can appreciate the subtleties that different tracks provide. Variations in banking, size, and configuration make for unique challenges.

    - The new “Car of Tomorrow (COT)” – many people complain that it is ugly, but that doesn’t matter to me. What concerns me is the lack of individuality of the brands of cars and the spec nature of the series. Brand used to be very important to NASCAR, allowing Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge vs Pontiac fights back in the day (or if you want to really go back, throw in Hudson, Buick, Mercury and many others). Americans can be fiercely loyal to a car brand, so this was a pretty important element of what made NASCAR unique. The new car takes this element away. The only thing manufacturer-specific anymore is the engine, and those aren’t production-based, either. The incredibly tight rule book leaves no room for creativity or innovation, and the technology is way behind. They just introduced unleaded fuel a couple of years ago, and they are now just starting to consider fuel injection.

    - Restrictor plate racing – don’t even get me started on how bizarre this is. They do it at only two tracks (Daytona and Talladega) and the whole thing is nothing but a massive accident waiting to happen. It’s not even fun to watch, unless you enjoy crashes. I don’t.

    - The Chase – resetting the points with 10 races to go is just more artificial manipulation of the rules, as far as I’m concerned. Leave this crap to reality TV and get back to making every race count. They never talk about what kind of money is on the line for each race (although no series does anymore, except for the dirt track racing here in the U.S., such as the World of Outlaws series, where the prize money is what drew the “Outlaws” in), they just talk about the points. The last 10 races don’t even include a road course, so I don’t think it’s even a fair representation of what it takes to be NASCAR’s champion.

    That’s just a small part of why I moved away from NASCAR. I much prefer F1, NHRA drag racing, the IRL, and the World of Outlaws dirt track sprint car racing.

    • GeeMac said on 22nd October 2009, 12:52

      “If you like oval racing, you can appreciate the subtleties that different tracks provide. Variations in banking, size, and configuration make for unique challenges.”

      What unique challenges? Do you mean the bit where the track goes left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left left?

    • AJ Ball said on 22nd October 2009, 16:01

      You said it all right there. The Chase and the Green White Checker, the ‘Debree’ cautions, the really ugly new ‘car’. I much prefer F1 these days.

    • James_mc said on 22nd October 2009, 21:46

      In response to the COT – As far as I’m concerned regardless of what you dress it up as; “Ford”, “Chevvy”, whatever – it’s still a lump of cast iron that Noah found in the hold of his Ark!

      You can paint a Trabant red and say it’s a Ferrari but it’s still a Trabant! :-)

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