Time for the annual Australian GP rumour
Every year when the Australian Grand Prix rolls around it seems we get a new rumour about the race moving to a different location. This year a new venue at Avalon is being tipped by the Sunday Herald Sun:
The Confederation of Australian Motor Sport has been granted funding to conduct a feasibility study to build the state-of-the-art complex near Avalon Airport.
The move would improve Victoria’s chance of retaining the Grand Prix beyond the current contract as well as providing a facility that would enable the state to run the race under lights.
Bernie Ecclestone is known to be keen to turn the event into a night race so television broadcasts of the race Europe can attract larger audiences. That was the thinking behind moving the race’s start time into the late afternoon last year, giving it a 7am start time here in Britain.
Moving the race away from Albert Park may be a politically sound move for the Victoria government. The race has attracted criticism for its environmental impact and that amount of taxpayers’ money spent on retaining it.
Will this rumour prove to have any substance, or is this just the usual speculation which seems to accompany every running of the Australian Grand Prix? Would you welcome a move away to Melbourne? Have your say in the comments.
Read more: 2010 Australian Grand Prix
newnhamlea1 said on 1st March 2010, 22:30
please dont, we will only get another tilke-drome and i hate night races, getting up at 2:00am used to be a ritual for me which has been progressively ruined by bernie ecclestone. all i have to look forward to in terms of an early start this year is the korean gp.
Macca said on 2nd March 2010, 5:48
God I hate this ‘night races for Europe’ crap.
So you have to get up in the night to watch a race, big deal, here in Australia we do that 17 times.
Hey Bernie, how about giving us a prime time race for once.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind that I having to get up for the European races but it is F1 tradition that the race is on Sunday afternoon, but instead we have to wait until 5pm, it’s just crap.
Cube said on 2nd March 2010, 8:18
Naaaah. We’re more important. :)
Kanil said on 2nd March 2010, 13:47
Agreed. Already two thirds of the races start within an hour of noon in the UK. You can’t expect a world wide series to have all of it’s events start at 12PM GMT.
I much prefer the late night 1AM Asian races to the early morning 7AM European races.
Calum said on 25th March 2010, 21:26
I’m glad you hate it, because most European fans, not so much casuals, hate it too. We Brits think of OZ as the sunny place down south and it’s part of it’s character. Melbourne Park looks great in the bright sun and palm trees. If it was dark then it would be dull. The backdrop to tracks makes a differance and Melbourne is visually pleasing. Plus I don’t mind getting up early once or twice a year to watch the GPs.
Harvs said on 1st March 2010, 22:40
dont move the australian gp, its in the perfect location now between the ocean and the city, and it provides good racing, “if it aint broke dont fix it” if anither “tipical tilke” track is built in australia, then i fear that the australian gp will lose some of its excitment, i have been 4 times since 2004, i am not going this year, but i would not want to see it move. Bernie… please try to save some tradition.
Paul S said on 1st March 2010, 23:01
It’s the same story evey year, with the main culprit being the Herald Sun, AKA Feral Sun.
I have lived in Melbourne for five years now, and I can tell you that Australians have no clue about the added value of the grand prix.
The debate is only in terms of how much it costs for the taxpayers, without realising that F1 is a worldwide event that helps put Melbourne on the map. But the Herald Sun prefers to think that the world actually bothers about the Australian Football League.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 1st March 2010, 23:30
Interesting, so you think the paper has a bit of an agenda?
Paul S said on 1st March 2010, 23:38
It’s a tabloid, so I don’t give it too much attention, but it’s still the most popular newspaper in Victoria and it’s been waging this campaign for years.
The Age – a ‘more serious’ broadsheet – is better, but negative articles on the grand prix can often be found.
The problem, as I said, is a general lack of understanding of F1. Don’t forget that it is a niche sport over here, we only got live GPs on TV a couple of years ago!
Ben said on 1st March 2010, 23:38
this IS the Australian media we’re talking about. Its not limited to the Hun, it goes for the majority of newspapers nation wide. Journalism standards are pretty low here, unfortunately.
Paul S said on 2nd March 2010, 0:08
I am afraid Australia is not alone. Go to Italy (where I grew up) and you’d be really appalled!
GoWebs said on 2nd March 2010, 0:56
The majority of Australians by far do not give a stuff about F1. Jack Brabham’s 50th anniversary of winning his first world championship in 2009 barely raised a mention in the mainstream press. Without any such affection the race will be pilloried in the papers every year. More Webber wins will sway their opinion.
Mike said on 2nd March 2010, 5:10
The herald sun if it were any more sensationalist, would make your eyes bleed…. no I’m not a fan….
The Grand prix is sadly not very popular with a great many people here, but its a good race, and a great place to start the season. (you see what I did there?)
Bookgrub said on 2nd March 2010, 1:41
I’m not sure they think the world cares about the AFL, but they definitely do think (and are right to do so) that Australia cares about the AFL immeasurably more than it cares about F1.
Value-add might be real, but if the government can’t demonstrate it effectively to the populace, spending $40 million on a single event is going to continue to be unpopular. And like any democracy, Australia continues to be big on populist politics.
steph90 said on 1st March 2010, 23:02
I first saw this on GMM this morning so it is likely to be completely false. But if by some madness it is true then is it the first thing they have ever got right? :p
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 2nd March 2010, 8:14
I think what matters is where the story actually came from, which in this case is the Herald Sun (see Paul’s point above).
steph said on 2nd March 2010, 8:33
I know just would make make a change if GMM latched onto something that may have some basis.
Perfect comment by Paul though and highly informative
Victor said on 1st March 2010, 23:10
Heck no.
George said on 1st March 2010, 23:14
DONT DO IT!
PinballLes - roadography.com said on 1st March 2010, 23:41
I can see benefits at either location, however I think Albert Park wins out. It’s proximity to the city, the picturisk location, and pretty cool layout make it hard to beat.
On the other hand pros to the Avalon concept are:
1) Australia would get a world class permanent circuit, which we don’t really have many, if any at the moment – by that I mean circuits with world class facilities, rather than just world class layouts.
2) Proximity to the Avalon Airport, and
3) The proposal is using private money, rather than government money.
Another idea, how about they take away the GP from Victoria and put it back in Adelaide! They could set it up so the V8 Supercars run one weekend, and then the Formula 1 runs the next weekend.
I’m not a fan of the night time Australian race. As an Australian F1 fan we only get to see about 2 or 3 races a year a reasonable time. All the European races we’re sitting up until 12 midnight, 1am Sunday night / Monday morning through our winter to watch the races.
Mark Hitchcock said on 1st March 2010, 23:58
+1 For Adelaide! Or Bathurst (which will obviously never, ever happen. But I can dream).
Mike said on 2nd March 2010, 5:15
Out of interest, do you think that F1 cars reasonably run at Bathurst? I mean would the descent towards the Hairpin be too much for the cars?
Mark Hitchcock said on 2nd March 2010, 12:47
That’s one of the reasons it’ll never happen. I don’t think the track is at all suitable for F1 cars. Not safe enough, too much gradient etc. Just too good basically!
The FIA would neuter it anyway so while it’s a good dream, in reality it wouldn’t actually be very good at all.
A bit like wanting F1 to run around Nordschleife again. It would be amazing, but to enable it to happen they’d have to make some changes that would ruin the track.
Stealthman said on 2nd March 2010, 2:07
If they were ever to take the GP away from Albert Park, I’d vote for it to go back to Adelaide. :D
The Avalon circuit seems like a good idea, but I’d have to see a layout plan before I make any conclusions.
Bentschke said on 2nd March 2010, 5:15
The problem with it going back to Adelaide is that it will clash with the Clipsal 500 (which is run on a shorter version of the old Adelaide F1 circuit).
Maybe they could combine the events for a mega-massive motorsport spectacular.
The V8′s used the full F1 circuit at Bahrain (due to GP2′s at the same time) maybe they could give it a go at Adelaide also with the full track.
Couple that with awesome concerts (which the Clipsal 500 is famous for) and it would be the best ‘event’ of the V8/F1 calendar.
On a side issue – the V8′s should have waited a few weeks, and coupled thier visit at Bahrain with the F1′s as well – they might have got more than 35 people in the stands!
PinballLes - roadography.com said on 2nd March 2010, 5:32
If it went back to Adelaide, I think the Grand Prix would have to be run on a seperate weekend to the Clipsal 500, as it seems V8 Supercars don’t like to be seen as a support category, I think they kind of consider themselves as an F1 alternative. I think that is why the V8 Supercars is a non-championship round at the Albert Park Grand Prix, and the reason why they have the silly Holden versus Ford challenge or whatever at Albert PArk.
I do agree though that the V8′s could run on the full Grand Prix circuit, and setup costs could be distributed across both events, however the V8′s would run on the weekend before the F1 race, the SA Government could use the V8′s as sort of dress rehearsal for the main event, and promote both races as one big motorsport festival, maybe during the week have a road rally up in the Adelaide Hills, or some other sort of motorsport events throughout the week, a car show maybe.
MPJ1994 said on 2nd March 2010, 8:39
I suggested a simialar idea several months back. I agree it could definatly work. V8s one weekend, F1 the next with perhaps the Classic Adelaide Rally being moved from November. Although it is a question of whether the State Government would support the idea of F1 returning.
On a side note, is anyone going to the Clipsal 500 this year? It falls on the same weekend as the Bahrain GP (11-14 March).
damonsmedley said on 2nd March 2010, 11:37
What about Philip Island? The only problem that could arise is logistics I suppose, but keep it at Albert Park! I love it.
Rob said on 2nd March 2010, 22:59
No, it’s non-champioship round because Channel 7 has the rights to the V8 championship series and One HD has the F1. Remember the V8s didn’t race at Albert Park the year Channel 7 won the rights for broadcating over Channel 10 (One HD) because of the rival networks? That’s why they came up with the Ford verses Holden non chamionship thing.
(Sorry for all the no Australian readers of this post)
I like Albert Park, but I was never in favour of it being taken away from Adelaide. Surely one of the most easily remembered visions of F1 in the last thirty years is Mansell’s massicv tyre blow out on the straight with sparks flying eveywhere. That’s when I fell in love with F1. The drama was jsut awesome.
PinballLes - roadography.com said on 3rd March 2010, 0:11
How about between 2003 and 2006 when channel 10 had the broadcast rights to F1 and V8 Supercars? The V8 races were non-championship rounds then.
MPJ1994 said on 3rd March 2010, 8:12
Phillip Island in its current form isnt suitable for F1. The main problem is that cars can leave thr track at turn 1, go across the infeild and rejoin the track at turn 3 (Basicly what happend to Cam Mcconville). Could you imagine what would have happend had the two cars hit each other? A wall would have to be built to stop this happening.
As for the distance from Melbourne, it doesnt seem to be a problem for the MotoGp and that still attracts large crowds so I cant see why F1 would be any different.
plushpile said on 1st March 2010, 23:59
It’s the Herald so I took it with a grain of salt, but if the Aus GP goes to a Tolkedrome out in Avalon I can’t see us keeping the race past the initial contract.
What makes the race at albert park stand out is that unlike most other tracks it genuinly is close to everything.
Mick Leyden said on 2nd March 2010, 0:14
Yeh I would not place too much faith in the ‘scum’ either. It does have a great football section but everything else is only useful for lining our cat’s litter tray.
Without doubt there are pros to building a permanent circuit, but like most other commenters they are well and truly outweighed by the cons.
Albert Park is a great central location, Avalon is not. It can be difficult enough getting into the track at the moment even though it is serviced by two tram lines, several bus services and is close to major arterial roads. If they move it to Avalon we’ll all be sitting in line to get out of the car park for two weeks after the race finishes!
plushpile said on 2nd March 2010, 2:01
Yeah, how long does it take to get out to Avalon on the Areo Show weekend?
1 hr for 2km or something ridiculous…
manatcna said on 2nd March 2010, 0:27
Like newnhamlea1, I also hate artificially lit circuits – I much prefer watching a race in daylight, even if it means getting up at dark O’Clock, but Bernie Rools KO.
From this year I won’t be watching any night races – that won’t bother our Bern, obviously, but it’s my choice – one of the few that I’ve got left.
If Mr Ecclescake wants more “night races” I won’t be watching F1 at all.
AP said on 2nd March 2010, 0:29
Well the race won’t move…well untill (if ever) there is a track built in QLD.
QLD could be a better location due to weather, and also the extra daylight, plus it also showcases AUS with theme parks, and beaches etc.
There is a planed track to go in not far from the Gold Coast but this may turn out to be pie in the sky stuff, as it has been on the drawing board for a while.
As to the airport link….well Cams(AUS local FIA body) is a shell of it once self, now a days it merely is a puppet for various lobby groups and ‘friends’. Not unlike the FIA really LOL
The airport has links to Linfox, a transport magnate. They also own Philip Island race track.
Now to join the dots, the paper/journo + Cams + Linfox are all working to a collective goal, I’m not prepared to make any conclusions for you but you make up your own judgment.
The GP should stay as it is a great location, I lived about 5mins away from there once. The public transport is excellent, close to the Melbourne CBD, and amenities are great.
As to Burnie and his rant about GP times in Europe…well for goodness sake, it’s a world series…meaning it is world wide, so while it may not be perfect for viewers for this 1 race, surely fans wouldn’t mind having to be as passionate as we here in AUS are, getting up or staying awake till all hours of the night to watch the other 99% of the races.
I dont miss a live race not even Brazil and that starts here my time at 2AM….add a few hours for race and it finishes a few hours before I start work LOL
As to this constant rumor mill on the track location, I am sick of it…
Mike said on 2nd March 2010, 5:22
Actually, now I’ve got it, Bernie! makes all the races in Europe at night! that way, F1 will gain popularity in Australia due to us not ahving to watch in the middle of the night! I am so smart!
On a serious note, politically, the Australian GP is hanging by a thread, if it becomes a night race, the Australian GP will come to a close.
macahan said on 2nd March 2010, 0:32
I would hope they do not do this either. For many reasons same as others. Show time of the day. This year there is 2 races during the “day time” for me. At 10 and 11am respectively because the race times been adjusted for European times. All Euro races as well Bahrain and Abu Dahbi is at 7am my time. It USED to be nice with the fly away races in Australia, Japan and China etc because those would show between 11pm and 2am. Now with a 5pm race in Australia the race starts at 1am. Malaysia with it’s later start now starts at 3am. The only “good” thing is the 5pm start in Abu Dahbi means 7am start for me if it was say at 2pm like many Euro races it would be at 4am.
So I hope for no night race in Australia because that means another impossible time to watch race.
Singapore with it’s 8pm means 7am. “Normal” 2pm start would mean 1am start. I rather go to bed at 3am then up at 7am :(
And Bernie wonder why F1 isn’t that popular in North America?
2 races between 10am and noon.
5 between 1am and 3am
12 at 7am.
The more races are adjusted to suite European audiences the fewer races the fewer races are suitable for US. There are 5 races that are at “viewable” times to me and 2 races that end at 4 or 5am.
Singapore is so dull I can not stay awake during the entire race at 7am, and same goes for Europe (Valencia) and I didn’t make it to the start of the Malaysia race (3am).
We do NOT need more night races. The poor Europeans (I can say that because I was born there) should be able to make 1 or 2 races at 7am when I watch 10 races each year at same time (09 I didn’t bother getting up for Valencia).
R.E.M. said on 2nd March 2010, 0:40
C’mon! Getting up early is half the fun of being an American F1 fan!
And Albert Park is one of my favorite circuits, so I’d hate to see it go.
macahan said on 2nd March 2010, 2:18
Ugh I hate mornings. I rather stay up late then go up at 7am on a weekend ;) Ohh well I love this sport only thing that will get me out of bed at 7am 20+ times a year on a day I am not working ;)
Albert Park is a fun circuit to watch the races at.
Fer no,65 said on 2nd March 2010, 0:47
Melbourne as the first gran prix of the year is just perfect!…
and i live literally in the other end of the world!…
I seriously hate those ideas of a grand prix at night to acomodate European viewers… what about America???
there are a lot of people, not europeans, who love the sport and watch all the races aswell… europe isn’t alone…!
GB2009 said on 2nd March 2010, 1:08
I’ll try and keep some sort of structure to this, but sorry if I fail!
1. “if it aint broke dont fix it”
It is broke, literally! The government lose MILLIONS every year, because the costs of setting up a temporary circuit to FIA standards is massive. The race has been around for 15 years, and a lot of Victorians are over the ‘novelty’ of the race, and are getting pretty angry at the costs…
2. “Australians have no clue about the added value of the grand prix. The debate is only in terms of how much it costs for the taxpayers, without realising that F1 is a worldwide event that helps put Melbourne on the map”
I have worked in the industry, and I can tell you that the economic impact outside of Australia is not enough to offset the loses, year after year. Often, you reach largely the same audience each year, but it costs the same amount again and again to reach them…diminishing returns…plus, how many people actually come from overseas to the race, and what do they spend? Even if it was 20,000 people from overseas (which it clearly isn’t), they need to spend $1,500 each in Melbourne JUST TO COVER THE COSTS OF SET-UP.
3. “I first saw this on GMM this morning so it is likely to be completely false”
this idea was first put forward by Lindsay Fox almost 2 years ago, when we nearly lost the race because Mr E wanted the night race, and threatened to pull it if the AGPC didn’t agree. SO I can assure you it is true (the idea I mean), and it will be seriously considered.
4. “t’s a world series…meaning it is world wide, so while it may not be perfect for viewers for this 1 race, surely fans wouldn’t mind having to be as passionate as we here in AUS are”
Australia make up like less than 1% of the global audience, if even. Aside from the Aus GP, typical metropolitan city audience peaks around the 250,000. mark. Bernie is quite right to take this into timing considerations.
Now, I know this all seems like I am anti-Albert Park, but Ia ssure you, nothing is further from the truth. This year will be my 10th Melb GP, and I love it to bits. All I am saying is that a. it is true, b. it makes a lot of economic sense for VIC, c. Night race makes sense for FOM, and d. It would be a popular political decision with the majority of Victorians.
If I was able to bet on it, I would put my cash on the move happening at the end of the current contract for Albert Park.
AG said on 2nd March 2010, 1:28
With respect to benefits the GP provides, the problem is many of them are not tangible and/or indirect benefits. Yes, you can look at the number if international visitors and multiply by the amount of money on average they spend but this is only part of it. It’s about building brand equity in ‘Melbourne’. E.g. How many people on this website would have heard that the city of Adelaide even exists, had their not been a GP there for so many years?
The negative publicity toward the Melbourne GP has been just that, publicity. Yes there are people in Melbourne who are against the GP or who just don’t care either way, but I can assure you there is a larger group that would be against the GP leaving Albert Park. Its called the silent majority.
GB2009 said on 2nd March 2010, 1:42
I wasn’t saying that international visitors are all that counts, but building a brand for Melbourne is all about attracting people to visit. By reaching F1 followers for 15 years, year after year, the message has got across already to most of them. Having the race at Avalon can do the same thing. Sure, the lake isn’t there and it may not look as nice, but if the VIC government played it right, they could ensure that there was plenty of footage of pretty places in Victoria, and if they put half the set-up costs of Albert Park into signage at the track and other elements of ‘brand building’, they could achieve the same thing.
AP said on 3rd March 2010, 22:45
Troll for Linsay Fox or a Cam delegate…? yer?
nik said on 2nd March 2010, 3:56
“Even if it was 20,000 people from overseas (which it clearly isn’t), they need to spend $1,500 each in Melbourne JUST TO COVER THE COSTS OF SET-UP.”
You have no idea how economics works. One imported dollar spent is worth around 6 local dollars. Because of this, promotion of tourism is an extremely efficient economic driver. Those millions spent on F1 are *a lot* more efficient than a subsidy on corn, or anything else like that.
I will be coming in from the USA, will probably spend $10-20k. That will be worth 100-150k to the local economy. This is what Australians do not understand and other countries, who are proud to have their cities on the world stage, do.
nik said on 2nd March 2010, 4:00
and I wouldn’t take this study seriously, it is simply a straw man (happens in politics all the time). The result of the ‘study’ will simply be that an alternate venue is not cost effective, therefor the race must remain at Albert Park for the next xx years.
Television shots of a race in the middle of a paddock is not the most effective way to promote a city.
Mike said on 2nd March 2010, 5:28
Oi! we have very nice paddocks.
some of them are green! well, only in Toorak…. I don’t like those people….
AG said on 2nd March 2010, 4:31
I think the GP is worth the money, but its not that Australians or Melbournians don’t understand the benefits of having their cities on the world stage, its just some people argue we already host popular global events like the Australian Open Tennis and Moto GP which cost far less to host. I am into many sports but if you spend anytime in Melbourne in particular, you can see we spend insane money on sports and new stadiums all the time. I am happy about that, but can see why some aren’t.
W154 said on 2nd March 2010, 1:15
I would be very happy for the AGP to move back to Adelaide.Great circuit, great location. A GP at Phillip Island would be spectacular to say the least. The sight of F1 cars three abreast coming over the top of Lukey Heights down the hill into MG…. Sadly it’s only a dream – the FIA circuit safety group would have kittens when they checked it out!