Schumacher courts controversy with last-gasp pass on Alonso after safety car

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

The result of the Monaco Grand Prix remains provisional as the stewards investigate Michael Schumacher’s last-corner pass on Fernando Alonso.

Schumacher passed Alonso for sixth place after the safety car went into the pits on the final lap.

Update: Schumacher handed 20-second penalty and loses points finish

Ordinarily cars are allowed to race for position after the safety car has gone in once they pass the safety car line – a white line which, at Monaco, is near the pit lane entrance after Rascasse.

Replays showed Schumacher was still behind Alonso at that line, and passed him on the way into Anthony Noghes.

However the regulations suggest that on the last lap of the race if the safety car is brought in, such passes are not allowed, and the drivers must cross the finishing line without passing:

If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.
Sporting regulations article 40.13

Ross Brawn claimed after the race that they believed the safety car was being brought in on the last lap but the race was not ending at that point, meaning they were allowed to overtake between the safety car line and the finishing line.

He also refuted a suggestion that Schumacher had passed under yellow flags.

Among the stewards this weekend is former F1 champion Damon Hill acting as a drivers’ advisor. Hill had several controversial run-ins with Schumacher in his time as a driver, but said yesterday he would not let that influence his judgement if he had to make any calls involving his former rival.

Lewis Hamilton, who finished fifth, saw the incident in his rear view mirror. According to McLaren’s live text, before the safety car came in his team advised him “the cars will proceed to the pits and no overtaking.”

Do you think Schumacher should keep sixth place? Have your say in the comments.

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278 comments on “Schumacher courts controversy with last-gasp pass on Alonso after safety car”

  1. Carlos Santos
    16th May 2010, 15:30

    I think the rules are clear (article 40.13), therefore he should be punished.

    1. What punishment would you suggest then?

      1. Sush Meerkat
        16th May 2010, 16:30

        I suggest a retrospective punishment of being stripped of 7 world titles and 91 race wins.

        That should put a message out to the drivers that in F1, you don’t overtake, its just plain rude.

        1. Love that one :) !

        2. Brilliant just Brilliant – Laugh I nearly ****** myself

        3. and reinstate his 1997 points so he has one world championship only.

          I still remember how Hill kept Schumacher behind for 12 laps of in Japan 1998 as a payback for 1994 so they should be even steven or is that stephen (hendry) :)

        4. Good one! And while we’re at it lets also put great big “NO OVERTAKING” signs on the back of every car to make sure nobody forgets :D

      2. I think if the rule is that no overtaking even after the safety car is in, then they should not follow the set-punishments but only swap Schumacher and Alonso’s places.

    2. But 40.13 is when the race ends under the safety car, It did not, you can see the safety pulled into the pits.

      1. The article was badly written and it should be changed, but you still can understand it

        when it says “it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking” you can see the safety car must enter the pitlane at the last lap (probably to avoid an “ugly picture” with the safety car leading the field at the end), but the cars should go on until the chequered flag, as if the safety car was ahead, because they’re not allowed to overtake.

        It’s badly written because, at the begining, it says “when the race ends under safety car” leading to an alternative interpretation that would consider Schumacher’s pass legal…

        It would be much more trouble-free if the safety car crossed the line ahead, or, if it came in before, if the track marshalls kept waving yellow flags to make it clear tou can’t overtake..

        Honestly, I think his pass was illegal, even though it was fantastic from the racing point of view

        1. Exactly Dan, great point

        2. Taking everything in, I still can’t understand why there were green lights, no waved yellows and no direction form the race director that the race was finishing under yellow flag conditions.

          If the rule is to stand, why were the lights green, and yellow flags ‘not’ waving? If Charlie is willing to risk ambiguity in the rules for the sake of a photo finish, then he deserves to have egg on his face, and give the points to Schumacher.

          1. It annoys me that they want a pretty finish, instead of either saying, the track is not safe, SC and no passing, or the track is safe, GO GO GO!

            This is a sport, or meant to be, It’s rules shouldn’t be written to give me a pretty picture at the expense of safety, or credibility as a racing series.

    3. Alonso made a mistake there and Schumi had to pass!
      i dont think Schumi was supposed to lock his wheels trying not to overtake him.
      It was not an overtake by Schumi but a mistake on Alonso’s part.

    4. After safety car leaves you can see green light and flags so this is not /article 40.13. article 40.13 states that IF the SC runs to the end will leave at last lap but yellow flag and SC signs will continue to be on. So get your facts straight first. you can see in youtube that green flags were being waved, so normal racing was continued.

      1. That was the problem they says that it was under the yellow flag but they waved green flag, now who control the lights? If the marshal do then I think it was an error from them that they forgot that it was the final run to the chequered flag.

  2. Nice try but unfortunately he has to loose the position as he cleary broke the rules as stated above

    “If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.
    Sporting regulations article 40.13”

    1. But the race didn’t end under the safety car – it only ended when Webber crossed the line

      1. I hate Schum, but totally agree with you: he should keep the position.

    2. Yes, but the FIA made sure the safety car wasn’t deployed when they told the teams “Safety car in this lap”…IE green light…go for it! Had they not told the teams this, they would have pulled in the SC in the pits and the cars would have gone to the finish line without oveetaking.

  3. yes, absoulutely ridiculous if they take it off him. Why bring the saftey car in if they are not to race to the line?, why was alonso sideways if he was not pushing it? A great move

    1. Carlos Santos
      16th May 2010, 15:35

      I think Alonso wasn´t aware of the new rule but that doesn’t make any difference.

      I think the point is to let the winner cross the line without being behind the SC, can’t decide if that is stupid or not…

      1. That makes it Ferrari, McLaren i think Rosberg said it was a cool move but also thought it was not alowed.
        Looks like something just like the “taking a stop and go in the last lap” finishing in the pit thing Ross and Michael pulled off.

    2. ‘If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking’ – safety car will enter pit lane and the cars will take the chequered flag WITHOUT overtaking
      Thats the rule

      1. But was the race finished under safety car?? Thats the issue i guess so undecided

        1. Please read the rules, not just you but everybody.

          U40.13U If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

          1. Safety Car conditions are defined by SC boards and waved yellows.

      2. The race was not over. The green lights were on. Green flags were being waved. The saftey car was in the pits. Shumi was clever enough and aware enough to know the line had been moved, and to top it off he executed it. No problem IMHO

        1. Yep I totally agree with you it was very clever another Schui “classic” !

          Yes he has done some questionable moves in his career, but also some brilliant ones, such as this.

          1. I really wouldn’t call this brilliant. Brilliant would be overtaking someone fair and square, where there are no grey areas or controversies.

            This is another cheap tactic by one of the most desperate drivers on the grid.

          2. It was fair and square, Alonso went for it, got sideways, Lost speed, and ergo his position. It wasn’t as if he just cruised round the last few corners!

          3. The problem was that the green flag was waved & yes why was Alonso sideways? Was he too trying to take a place away from Hamilton when he saw the green flag?

      3. So why inform the cars the safty car is in the pit this lap if it is an expected think.

        THE DRIVERS HAS YELLOW LIGHTS on their steering wheels you know and the FIA makes sure these are on during a SCD peiod so the SO STRICT FIA must have left that light ON after the SC peeld off.

        Why greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen.

        I think the FIA MUST BE FINED BY US FANS.

        1. They should. Allow free entry and ad-free TV coverage for the rest of the season!

          1. lol…second that!

      4. The way the race proceded corresponds exactly to the rule Brett M states. Ending under safery, the race ends with the safety car pulling in and everyone passes the finishing line without overtaking.

        However, the notice given “safety car in this lap” is contrary to this standard procedure. This seemed to indicate that the race went green and therefore it did not end under yellow, therefore they were allowed to overtake.

        The latter makes no sense, why allow overtaking over 300m? That’s how most teams supposedly interpreted it. But in the strictest interpretation of how the race happened, the race was under green, which is what Mercedes chose to understand.

        In my opinion, the mistake was not badly written rules, it was simply the race director not knowing the rules himself. You cannot go green at the end of the last lap. If you do end under yellow, the safety car will pull in, without notice, and the track stays under yellow.

        I would award no penalty for Schumacher (even though he is an absolute disgrace to Formula 1 and the human race). I would take Charlie Whiting for a training course.

  4. Schumacher fault, and controversy on the road

    1. its not a fault dude, its called racing, im sure if he was aware of the rule certainly wouldn’t have done it.

      1. ok, is racing, the pass was awesome, but rules are rules, and I don’t think Brawn don’t know it

        1. Race didn´t end under safety car: SC was in the pits and cars hadn´t cross the flag…

          1. Like it or not, it is still legal. Yet not nice through. Same as what Alonso did to Massa the other day.

    2. I don’t think it was Schumi’s fault he was shown the green flag like the rest of the drivers saw it, it was just the rules that were not clear.

  5. the regulations are pretty clear. illegal.

    1. How so? The safety car had gone into the pits, they had passed the first safety car line, and green flags were being waved.

    2. no, they are not! race didn´t end under safety car, it was in the pits…

      1. But the rule says “If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap…”

        The race was therefore still under safety car conditions, even though the safety car was no longer on the track.

        1. but the green flags were waving

        2. Tim you are correct.

          Why others can’t read the rules, or just can’t be bothered is beyond me.

          Maybe they just like to keep the pot boiling.

          1. Uhmm Hairpin. You are taking the point of view that everyone but you is an idiot. That is disrespectful. We are questioning the clarity of these rules that define whether safety car conditions were still in play at the end of the race.
            How would you define end of safety car conditions?
            I would say, Safety car in”, “Track Clear” message given and waved yellows changed to waved greens, yellow flashing lights changed to green lights. In other words, exactly the sequence that obtained.
            Previous races ending under SC boards and waved yellows correctly prevented overtaking.
            In any event, Shuey was taking orders from Braun over the radio to jump Alonso at the safety car line if the lights turned green.
            They did turn green, Shuey waited till the safety car line and made the pass.
            The new Safety car line confuses the situation. In previous years to this, no overtaking was allowed until the driver passed the start/finish line after the safety car exited at the pits.
            The rule still says “the cars will take the chequered flag *as normal* without overtaking.”
            (Sporting regulations article 40.13)
            But that was the old safety car rule as I said. No overtaking was the rule until the Start/Finish line. This year, there is no “as normal” because they are allowed to start racing at the safety car exit line.

        3. William Wilgus
          16th May 2010, 17:30

          Not if the green flags were being displayed. That means `race!’. Had they kept displaying the yellow, then Schumi’s pass might have been ilegal—but what about Alonso’s being `sidewise’? I think that would make Schumi’s pass legal whether green or yellow flags were being displayed.

          1. You have a good point, i’m going to watch it again.
            But alonso may have just ran off racing line knowing or thinking the race was over. (why defend).
            I have no axe to with either drivers.

        4. “If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed…”. Please read it carefully. It means that while the safety car is still there, and one reaches the chequered flag… But here it is totally another case.

    3. the regulations are far from clear, and besides, the race didn’t end under a safety car.

      The rule that everybody is citing, including Joe Saward on his blog, is for when the race would normally finish under a safety car and the safety car would actually lead the cars past the line. That rule states that instead of having the SC lead past the finish line, have it come into the pits and have the lead driver act as the pace car.

      What happen in the race today was different – the race didn’t finish under the SC, therefor the overtake was fine, therefor MSC keeps his place over ALO.

      1. The safety car was out on the last lap and comes in before the finish line.

        Bernie doesn’t want pictures of a race finish with the safety car in front, thats what the rule is there for !

        1. So keep the Yellow light ON on the driver streering wheels then.

      2. Nik I agree with you but you are missing the *as normal* point.
        It shows this rule is now out of date. Previously, the SC would not have led the cars over the line. No need as you weren’t allowed to race until you came to the Start/Finish line after a safety car had been taken off.
        Now it’s different with the new safety car exit line. There’s no *as normal* now.

  6. ..near the pit lane exit after Rascasse.

    Is it entrance?

    I think positions should swap back.

    1. Not enought, I want to see the FIA fined $20 million for this blunder and Hill stripped of his sporting imparciality and pay 10% of the that money to Schumacher’s chosen charity(ies).

    2. I agree the position needs to be swapped & the rules needs to be very clear.

  7. Not a Schumacher fan, but it was legal IMO. Should not be punished. Alonso was sideways too!

  8. James Alias
    16th May 2010, 15:33

    hahaha, whether he eventually loses his position or not but you BET Schumi does bring a LOT of entertainment and controversy to F1!! i laughed my throat off till it hurt.

    1. I personally saw the move as very entertaining and an awesome pass.. but if its rules then cant do nothing about it..

      1. Was you on the track?

  9. Ross Brown had fotos of green lights on, also there is a rule that speaks of SC in in final lap

  10. They were both across the SC line, and greens were shown. Ross Brawn’s argument is that everybody went for it anyway, but it was only Schumacher who succeeded. Brawn had printed out all of the timing and images from the car showing that the safety car was in at 15:52 and the race ended at 15:53 (something like that) and at Anthony Noghes greens were shown. The rule is the rule, but I think it’s a stupid rule. I’d want the overtake to count.

  11. I think it will end with a 25 seconds penalty, that’d mean:

    6 Alonso
    7 Rosberg
    8 Sutil
    9 Liuzzi
    10 Buemi
    11 Alguersuari
    12 Schumacher
    13 Petrov (+ 5 Laps)

    1. Too harsh. They should drop Schu back to 7th, give him a pat on the wrist and leave it at that. It was a nice move after all.

      1. Well a nice move, I agree, but it’s not synchronized swimming! The rules seem clear that overtaking isn’t allowed: the SC pits so the cars can take the chequered flag without the SC appearing to win the race… A 25 sec penalty seems harsh, true, but much less so given the circumstances than the stupid, stupid decision against Hamilton at Spa 2008.

        1. Maybe they will consider giving a grid penalty for next race?

        2. you are also getting it mixed up. That rule applies for when the race finishes under a SC – which this race did not.

          It is clear and simple – in that his overtaking was ok. It shouldn’t take 200 comments to flesh this out with everybody repeating the same mistake.

  12. Charlie Watts
    16th May 2010, 15:34

    As much as it pains me to say, Schumacher should keep 6th place. Ross Brawn makes a very good point. The race didn’t end under the safety car so overtaking should be allowed. It’s an interesting interpretation of what is an unclear rule.

    1. I don’t think it’s unclear when it says the safety car goes in and the cars cross the line without overtaking

      1. your right, that is not unclear. What is unclear here, is why they actually signalled that the SC was going in and showing green flags, despite this rule.

    2. It’s also a disingenuous interpretation! We have to think WHY the rule is there. At a guess, I’d presume that given the very short distance involved between SC going in and the finish line, the intention of the rule is to allow the cars to finish without being led across the line by the SC (anti-climatic). If so, that fully explains the rule ‘the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.’ Typical Brawn/Schu. Classless bunch.

      1. Typical Brawn/Schu. Smart bunch.

        1. *If* they get away with it!

          1. Yes, if they get away with it! lol

      2. Yes David, I fully agree and posted earlier.

  13. Although the regulations say it’s illegal, I think there’s a grey area in that the rule change about being able to pass after the saftey car line now doesn’t match up with the old rule. My feeling is that’s the stewards will let it slide and quickly alter the regulations to prevent this kind of confusion in the future.

    1. red bull are just making formula 1 boring
      because behind them were the renault ferraris and mclaren which would have been much better

  14. The crucial point is to figure out whether the safety car was coming in because the track was clear and the SC period was over, or whether it was pulling in under 40.13 for a photogenic finish.

    We’ve seen Ross Brawn’s argument… He says the FIA said the safety car was coming in, that the track was clear. The pictures showing the green flags also speak for themselves.

    If the stewards say the SC was being pulled in under 40.13, they also have to explain how the teams (and we!) were supposed to tell the difference between the two scenarios.

    1. Carlos Santos
      16th May 2010, 15:38

      Very good point!

    2. exactly. i better written than me.

    3. Perfect point Kris as make by Ross B .. Green lights and Flags means racing is allowed … if this had finished “under Safty Car rules” then there would have been yellow flags and an “SC” board out to keep the drivers informed.

      So for me it’s a ‘well done Schumacher’ for beening on the ball and ‘bad luck Alonso’ for losing control/grip at the key point in the race.

    4. The other way around too:

      If the stewards say the SC was being NOT pulled in under 40.13, they also have to explain how the teams (and we!) were supposed to tell the difference between the two scenarios.

      1. I imagine that if Ross is right (and my instinct is that he is) the stewards will say that in the other (40.13) scenario, there’d be a message to the effect of “Race ending behind safety car” and the yellow flags + SC boards would stay out.

        After all, the flags are supposed to be definitive – radios fail and drivers are supposed to be able to know what to do from the flags (and perhaps the pitboard for stop/gos) alone.

        I think that events found a hole in the rules: – when 40.13 was added nobody stopped and thought “but what if we want to bring the safety car in on the last lap?”


          This is from Australia 2009 where the race finished behind the safety car. You can see at the very end when they cross the line, yellow flags are out.

          So I completely agree with you. I think the fact that green flags were out shows that the SC period was over and normal racing was allowed.

          1. Indeed and let’s fine the FIA 20 million dollars.

          2. kenapa kau salahkan ali
            17th May 2010, 2:18

            @3:39…yellow flags being waved

      2. Both you and Kris are right here. I remembered in China nobody was much aware of the new rules with the safetycar-line. This rule was never properly explained and now it ended in controversy.
        McLaren and Ferrari were clearly of the opinion they should not race and told their drivers not to overtake. Brawn takes from the SC in message and green flags being waved, that they could race there.
        It was a great move, but if Fernando was not aware of having to race, then it is just bogus and bad for the sport.
        Let the Stewards explain and explain why there was conflicting information to the teams.

    5. Kris is right IMO.
      There’s no wrong or right in this case, so no matter what ppl post here, they can [b]always[/b] be proven wrong.
      There are 2 conflicting rules, the FIA should (and will) rewrite them, end of story.
      Now, the question is: what will the race result be. As stated above, there’s no wrong or right, so it’ll be interesting to see how the FIA or the stewarts will argue ;)

    6. Wow, brilliantly worded.

      I think, your last paragraph tells exactly the argument that Ross Brawn will use while defending Schumi.

      “How are the teams are supposed to know??”, There, that is your grey area. Ross Brawn will exploit that!!

      And if the green flags were clearly visible, then clearly, no penalty should be given!!

  15. The regs are clear but the situation is not, Mercedes have proof of there instructions, I think he might just get it. An I don’t think it’ll be outrageous if the Stewards give this to Mercedes.

    1. Regs are clear in every situation, with the exception of a SC in the last lap ;)

  16. The thing is the rules a contradictory. 40.13 states that he should be penalised, but that other rule says that once they cross that line they’re allowed to race. So the question is which takes precedence? Normally in law, the most recent law sort of overwrites the old one. So from my point of view, it needs to be cleared up and the regulations rewritten, but Schumacher keeps the place.

    1. The more specific rule overrides the broader rule, so 40.13 is more important in this case. Which is a shame because I quite liked this move ;)

      1. But why then did they show green flags on track? The BBC also spoke about Webber having to fight for it one more corner.

      2. There are totally no conflict here. People need to read both rules word by word, not just by presumption. It’s legal. End of story.

  17. No notification from the FIA that the race was ending under the safety car, just that it was coming in, therefore race till the end. Great move!

    1. Indeed DannyJ :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
      seven smiles for a seven wold champion!

      1. Gotta love the cheek of the old-timer… I have no great love for Alosno, I think he’s proud and spoiled, but a great driver none-the-less. Still, he’s no match for the Great Schumi who infruriated me for so many years!

        1. Without Schumy, F1 is like food without salt, bland. Oh I am sooooooo happy for this pass even if he get all the punishments he dose NOT deserve from a jealous old Hill :)

          Go Schumy go ……. .

          1. Paper Tiger
            16th May 2010, 16:50

            With the exception of this ‘are Schuey and Brawn back to their old cheating ways’ controversy, in what way has Schuey made this season better than, say, 2008?

            Also, you ought to cut down on the salt. It’s really bad for your health.

          2. WOHOOOO !!!
            Schumi is back!

        2. Your opinion but he “alosno”(?) managed very well in 2005 and 2006… as Ayrton could have done in 1994 if…

  18. I liked this move, to be honest. However if it’s against the rules, then it’s against the rules, and Alonso should take points for sixth place.

    1. Well… I had the chance to see the whole situation again, and now I agree with Brawn. Stewards gave no indication that the race was ending under safety car conditions. They informed the teams that the track was clean, they waved green flags and the light was green. Green means GO. Michael shouldn’t be punished for doing his job.

  19. More wonderful vagueness from the lawyers… all those millions and they can’t compile a coherent set of rules. Leaving Brawn’s seemingly valid points aside, article 40.13 makes no sense. If the car is STILL deployed, i.e. doesn’t peel off as it did on this occasion, how the hell can it enter the pitlane ‘at the end of the LAST lap’? If it enters at the end of the last lap, then it is no longer deployed, that’s where the confusion arises.

    As it stands though, despite Ross’s little print out, Alonso has to be given the place back. The race was ‘ending’ with the car deployed, it entered the pitlane at the end of the last lap, and the cars took the chequered flag as normal, so there can be no overtaking. But what a bloody shambles caused, once again, by wilfully vague rules.

    1. The rule is entirely clear, the problem you’ve described is with the notifications given by the race director, i.e. does “safety car in this lap” mean the race is finishing under safety car conditions or that the race is back on? Ferrari say they believed the race was ending under safety car conditions, Mercedes are arguing that they had good reason to believe the race was back on. But the wording of the rule is not to blame.

      The presence of the safety car isn’t a prerequisite for safety car conditions to be in force – they aren’t the same thing. There have been many situations where the safety car has pulled off the track before the point that racing can resume. At that point, the leader effectively becomes the safety car and safety car conditions remain in force, i.e. no overtaking, until the line.

      1. Jarred Walmsley
        16th May 2010, 20:23

        Okay, fair enough, BUT if this was the case then the yellows would have to have continued to be displayed, which they WERE NOT indeed green flags were being waved which to me and apparently to Brawn and Schumacher that race conditions were in place and I have to agree with them, but even if it was illegal then the penalty was still to harsh and he should only be dropped to 7th as an absolute maximum penalty

  20. the rule is open to interpreation. it depends if the SC was coming in because the accident had cleared or SC was coming in as the rule stated becasue the race was over.

    In my opinion, if the incident had not be cleared the MSC was not entitled to over take.

    If the SC was coming in because the incident was clear, then you have a one corner race.

    It rule depends on the interpretation of if the SC was still deployed at the end of the race. Was it coming in because the incident was cleared or because rule 40.13 said it must.

    Over to the lawyers to sort it out.

    1. Guys, everybody refer to 40.13, but nobody to the part (new for 2010 season)of chapter SC, so here you are:
      “When the safety car is ready to leave the circuit it extinguishes its orange lights, indicating to the drivers that it will peel off into the pits at the end of the current lap. The drivers then continue in formation until they cross the first safety-car line where green lights will indicate that they are free to race again.”
      This is the true case in Monaco!!!

      1. In addition to beaker post – it’s very simple to determine which is the case:
        SC – orange lights!
        Stewards – GREEN flags and no table SC!
        You can see it very clear in YouTube!

  21. the screen showed “SC in this lap” so that’s presumably because of the track being clean, and not because of the regulation.

    If so, MSC’s move is legal i think.

  22. There are only two possible sane outcomes:

    1) MSC and ALO swap places, and the wording of 40.13 will be made more specific for the next GP, or

    2) MSC keeps his place, and 40.13 is reworded for clarity. Drivers will be trying to back the field behind to ensure that they aren’t jumped at the restart.

    The last outcome which could have happened in darker, less sane years would be to give MSC a 25-second penalty, which would drop him dead last. Of course there will be protests and denunications of the stewards, especially of a certain Mr D. Hill if it happens.

  23. In the slow-motion I’ve just seen the yellow lights flashing before rascasse – and then as Schumacher pulled alongside Alonso after the corner, there was a green light flashing. So it should be legal…

  24. The rule clearly states under a saftey car finish which it was not as the saftey car went in so the rules apply as normal for this year and they are alowwed to overtake therfore he keeps 6th place

  25. now again started….Schumi controversy bla bla bla…it is not controversy alonso was just slowing down too much….Keith ur keeping ur eyes wide open to see if u can get some news to spank Schumi…..ridiculous ..Just post on Webber’s brilliant win rather than these

    1. You expect him not to post on the biggest talking point of the race? It’s not controversy? Then why has it been referred to the stewards, why are Ferrari protesting? Don’t be ridiculous, if you’re not interested in a detailed analysis of the race why are you even here, just go read the results on Yahoo.

      1. What do u expect a driver to do when a guy infront of him slowed down drastically?I just meant to say that it was not a controversy just a incident(u can call it major as it was between two champs)But the title of this post does not bode well.I could not find a source where they say it is a controversy…Only u guys say so…

    2. As Daffid says, it’s clearly the biggest story of the race. I’d be out of my mind to ignore it.

  26. How do they know if the SC is coming in under rule 40.7 (normally) or under rule 40.13 (b/c of last lap)

    1. Good question!

    2. Presumably if the race is finishing under the safety car they wouldn’t give the standard “safety car in this lap” message. Also the the yellow flags would continue and the “SC” boards would stay out.

      What does the green flag indicate? I think that’s the answer. Although it is interesting it’s taking a while for an official announcement.

  27. Schumacher proves again that he is the best driver of all times.
    The move is legal, and schumacher deserve the 6th place

    1. actually deserve more for his quick-thinking just as Alonso does when overtaking a sleepy Massa into the pitlane entry :)

  28. F1 must be the only sport where the drivers don’t know what is allowed and what isn’t. Would be a real shame if he was punished, one of the best moves I have ever seen in F1.

    1. Good point Tommy. After all these years, and past incidents, we should not really have this controversy and uncertainty.

    2. That’s because the rules change all the time, who can keep up with it…

  29. So, we watch an interesting but processional Monaco GP virtually no ‘real’ overtaking to speak of.

    Then suddenly out of nowhere a miniscule opportunity opens up on the last corner of the last lap and a driver brilliantly takes advantage of it and succeeds!

    And most people here want it annulled?!

    I used to drop in here all the time. These days its just around the races. I beginning to feel like that’s becoming a bad move too…

    1. I know. Apparently, a procession to the finish line is what people want.

  30. Regulations are clear. Schumi must be punished (+20sec, +30sec or grid position penalty in the next race)

  31. Who cares anyway let the pencil guys decide, it was a good pass. And Webber wins !! yea!! and im going to bed happy tonight! :)

  32. this is ridiculous, alonso should get 6th back…it clearly states that in the rule shown. so i dont see why it should be bent, even if both drivers weren’t aware of it.

  33. This reminds me of Australia 2009. Didn’t the provisional result penalised Trulli for passing Hamilton (before the lie-gate incident was publicised)?

  34. Green = racing conditions. Everyone went for it, simple. Alonso was sleeping and got caught out by the best thinking driver. Ferrari say the race finished under the SC, then why did everyone floor it coming into and out of Anthony Noghes like it was a race??

    I hope Damon Hill and the rest of the stewards make the right decision and let Schuey keep the position.

  35. Gentlemen, start your lawyers!

    I think 40.13 is pretty clear – under the safety car, no overtaking on the last lap regardless of what the SC does. So Schumacher should drop back to 7th.

    But we will see, maybe Brawn’s appeal to the inherent ambiguity of the regulations will win out.

    1. But, was it under the SC. SC in, green lights, green flags…

      1. That’s the question. The thing is that the safety car comes in at the end of the final lap whatever happens. So do the green flags actually mean anything?

        Apparently both Alonso and Hamilton were told over the radio that overtaking was not allowed at the end of the race. If so that confirms the idea that 40.13 trumps the other SC rules.

        1. Massa has just said on the BBC forum he too was told over the radio that he could not overtake on the run to the flag.

          1. It doesn’t matter what Ferrari told their drivers if it was wrong.

            The rules governing the use of the green flag are very clear. Under safety conditions at no time is the green flag shown until racing resumes.

        2. “So do the green flags actually mean anything?”

          Well shouldn’t you assume they mean something, until proof to the contrary? Here I can see no such proof. And one thing they could mean is just that the race did not end under SC, though the SC would come in anyway.

          And what teams said on radio obviously does not determine what the rule is. They may just have been wrong.

      2. @ HG
        Totally agree with you “SC in, green lights, green flags” if they waved yellow flag as they did in 2009 Australian GP then I would say that Schumi needs to be punished but that was not the case.

  36. everyone’s looking at 40.13 but go up a bit to

    40.11: When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message “SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP” will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car’s orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.

    which we all clearly saw on the screens

    1. yeah, thats for any other lap in the race, 40.13 is specifically aimed at the last lap, and this whole over taking thing was in the last lap, therefor 40.11 wouldn’t apply.

    2. This pretty much seals it in my mind. I love Hill, but if he somehow managed to get MS penalised because of old blood, he’s no longer my favourite driver.

  37. 1. The FOM message was SAFETY CAR COMING IN THIS LAP.

    2.The corner was showing a green flag status (green light) indicating that drivers are to resume racing.

    3.The lights had stopped flashing on the safety car indicating that the Safety Car had been called in by the race director.

    Schumacher absolutely deserves to keep his place for this crafty piece of driving.

    Rule 40.13 simply can not have any weight on this situation due to the mitigating circumstances listed above.

  38. F1 is a lot more interesting at moments like this, don’t take it away from Schumacher. If overtaking is not allowed, don’t wave that green flag. Obviously the Master wants to teach everyone a lesson in these boring F1 days, let him! I believe Alonso will not make that mistake again.

  39. Am I the only one who sees the irony that Schumacher is sticking it to Ferrari this time around? all the years of dishing it out now they are taking it full on from Schumi.

    BTW The pass was legal. Unfortunately the regs and what happened on the track are not clear, they do not coincide. I think it was FIA’s error to bring in the SC and now they have made an incredibly sore gray area.

  40. Magnificent Geoffrey
    16th May 2010, 15:55

    Could someone explain to me why they even introduced the Safety Car line in the first place? What was wrong with the ‘no overtaking before the Start/Finish line’ rule that we had for years? No SC line = no problem, right?

  41. It’s great isn’t, webber’s greatest moment of his life is overshadowed by Schumi – Alonso controversy

    1. A bit like his win in Brazil being totally overshadowed by Button winning the title.

      Poor Mark. If he won the world championship something would happen to deflect attention away from him.

      1. @Red Andy : you could make a brilliantly funny story on your website out of this i think :-p

    2. Well, the best way to sum it up would be something Webber himself said to Schumacher after Monaco quali 2006: “It shows how greedy and hungry you are to go to that length…”

    3. Nothing is overshadowed by any means.

    4. I agree, just as people forgot that he was 2nd behind Jensen last year in the championship at one point, and all the focus was still on Vettel, and just as many never noticed or commented that Massa led Kimi for much of 07, some guys never get the respect they deserve. The way Bernie talks you’d think Webber had already retired

  42. This is crap. I’m not Schumacher’s biggest fan but this is a rubbish rule. This situation is ludicrous.

  43. Seriously, he should be rewarded for making a boring reace interesting

    1. Yes he should be rewarded and Alonso for his drive from the back and Lewis for changing tyres at the right moment to come ahead of Schumacher.
      I love them all but I HATE INJUSTICE.

  44. It didn’t look to me as if anyone was cruising to the finish line, after the safety car came in everyone was racing as fast as they could through the last corner.

    Would they really be doing that if the rule was as clear as Ferrari claim it is? I am on Schumacher’s side when it comes to this one. Just look at the way Alonso was drifting out of Rascasse, doesn’t seem to me he was cruising.

  45. To me it is very clear, It is illegal to pass while behind the safety car, BUT! they were not behind it!

    It had pulled in! just like the incident in shanghai (precedent) where Webber was pushed off the road.

    The argument is not was he allowed to pass (He could as the safety had pulled in) but weather he did it before the line! The replay footage clearly shows that he was behind when they crossed the line.

    Therefore, It was legal.

  46. Guys, don’t pull just one article out of context! The rules are clear indeed and Schuey is and will rmain 6th: 40.7: “overtaking is forbidden until the cars reach the first safety car line after the safety car has returned to the pits” that’s a tick ; more importantly, 40.11: “40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car’s orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.” That’s exactly what happened, so 40.13 does not apply, as the race did not finish under SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED regultions!!

    1. Correct I’m glad someone has used common sense.

    2. Very clear! I think you are 100% right.

      1. But it did say “safety Car coming in this lap?”

        Who’s to say the safety car forgot to turn its lights out? Its happened before…

  47. I think Ross has it right!
    The SC came in so they were racing!

    If the SC procedure was kept on, it should have been communicated differently as a race that ends in sc mode but with the sc pulling in!

    If they do want to punish, only give up the position and it should be ok!

  48. stats say Australia & Italy 2009 finished under the safety car. were the rules different then & if not maybe someone can refresh us on how exactly those races finished?

    1. oh my bad, i meant aside from moving the overtaking line. maybe there were pit messages put out as well?

      this one looks to be another case of FIA regulations just simply contradicting each other and looks like a case for the lawyers..

  49. Previously, drivers were not able to overtake after the­ Safety Car pulled in until the start/finish line,­ meaning last-lap Safety Cars guaranteed the same­ results as when the final lap began.

    However,­ new-for-2010 regulations state that passes are­ permitted after the final Safety Car line, located­ before the pit lane entry and, in Monaco’s case, at­ the exit of La Rascasse corner.

  50. I think the fact that there was green flags then rule 40.13 is not applicable. They were back to racing conditions between the safety car line and the start/finish line.

    If the safety car pulled in but yellow flags still were waved than then that particular rule is the over riding factor. The race is finishing under safety car conditions, but green flags were shown, which means RACE.

    And believe me i’m no fan of Schu….

  51. Green Flag = Race

    I think race control got this one all wrong. If the safety car was pulled in because of rule 40.13, why waive the green flags.

    I can see them making a tweak to the reg’s after this one, to make sure that green flags are not waived when they are bringing in the safety car to adhere to rule 40.13

    This time I think Schumacher is lucky.

  52. oops that was meant to say the race didn’t finish under safety car conditions

  53. Gentlemen, the race finished under SC conditions, and it was just pulled in for the photo at the crossing line. It is not possible to pull in the SC in the last lap and end the race on normal racing conditions. If the SC is out during last lap, its 40.13.

    Anyway, the pass was good but not in racing conditions. I am not hoping the future of F1 entertainment is on this kind of passes exactly.

    1. The race didn’t end under SC conditions. Green lights and flags were shown. The race was back on. Smart move by wily old Schumacher.

    2. If the race finished under SC, there wouldn’t be a green flag/light… it would still yellow. Basically it’s about whether the SC came in because the race will end with the SC or because the race can resume normally.

      40.13 doesn’t state if the SC is out during last lap. It states that “If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed”.

      So.. no, SC in the last lap doesn’t automatically make it 40.13. At least that how I would interpret it :)

  54. The FIA said the Safety Car went in so, according to the instructions of the FIA, the race didn’t finish under the Safety Car so we advised our drivers that they could still race between the Safety Car line and finish line.

    “Some even said Michael overtook Alonso under yellow but we have screenshots that there are green flags being waved right before Michael overtook Alonso.”

  55. Now he’s truly back and the rule bending has began…

    1. Now he’s truly back and ballsy racing is back!!!

  56. damn yeah!! He is Back.. dont never doubt..!!

  57. He should keep it and I think he’ll manage to convince the stewards.

    They have been particularly lenient throughout the weekend. Among the episodes I can recall are:
    1)Massa impeding Button during qualifying when he had all the time possible to give him clean air, while also not compromising his own lap.
    2)Barrichello throwing away the steering recklessly, which was then run over by an HRT. After this incident, the stewards asked for clarification and accepted his, rather weak explanation.
    3)Massa touching his two tyres with the yellow line on his way out of the pits, which wasn’t even considered for investigation by the stewards.
    4) Massa (again) cutting a chicane instead of joining the racetrack the way he should, which in turn would have resulted in him losing a position to Lewis Hamilton.

    I’m not particularly disappointed with the way things went as I believe racing within the limits must be encouraged. However, Massa got away with a lot of minor infractions. Touching the white (or rather yellow line in the case of Monaco) was enough to justify all his minor infractions and slap him with a deserved penalty. I don’t want to start any conspiracy theories, but I found it rather disturbing when Jean Todt, the president of the FIA, admitted that he loved Massa during a short interview with Italian TV station RAI just before the race. Persons in such a high position must have no conflict of interest, and this is one of the main reasons why I didn’t want him as president.

    1. Todt doesn’t enforce the rules, Just as Bernie Doesn’t.

      1. Yes, but just like any president, he has the final say before rules are passed.

  58. i think Schu is correct and the pass should stand, safety car went in and it was after the white line. plus Alonso got a bit off line so left the door wide open.

    Finally, I’d like to welcome the old Michael back!

  59. I think the pass was actually legal, due to rule 40.7, which says:

    Rule 40.7: With the following exceptions, overtaking is forbidden […]. Overtaking will only be permitted under the following circumstances :
    – if any car slows with an obvious problem.

    Alonso was obviously, from a certain point of view dangerously, slow out of Turn 17, which may have been due to a tyre problem due to overly long use so therefore, the pass was NOT illegal, seeing as Rule 40.7 permits overtaking when the car ahead has problems, as Alonso did.

  60. I think it’s pretty clear that Schumi was in the right. However, I’m sick of us always arguing about then rules. I do think in this case they are clear but the fact that everyone is so confused shows something is amiss. It completely undermines a good race when this stuff happens.
    Thyere is one issue I do have though. Ross was on the bbc and I think (I could have misheard) that from the FIA he was told they could race. If that mjeans he looked at the FIA rules then good on him but if he spoke to Charlie or whoever and they confirmed it then Ferrari really shouldn’t have been in the dark about it.

  61. What a great move!!
    From the greatest driver of all time. Glad that he is back!!!
    This makes things much more exciting in the next months.

  62. He should keep the position. Just like the entire BBC team said.

  63. Schumi should be demoted to his previous position. What I don’t get is, if the race is in effect, to finish under the safety car, why doesn’t the safety car simply stay on track? No confusion that way.

    1. Oh that’s because a finish under the safety car doesn’t look good on pictures :) It’s a trivial reason, but that’s what it is!

    2. Unfortunately he can’t just be demoted the one position. The penalty post race is either 25second drop back through the grid or 5 place grid drop on grid for next race.

      Regardless, the race went green flag before the end of the race as the cars had been cleared from the track, so overtake should stand. If the race was going to be judged as a SC finish, yellows would have remained out to indicate to drivers that the no overtaking remained enforced.

  64. The race didn’t end under the safety car. They clearly divulged the SC was in right on the last lap. The trick is, if the race were to end under SC, he would still retreat to the pits but direction would have made it clear, the flags would remain yellow and so on.

  65. PERFECT explanation, straight from Ross Brawn, with evidence:

    1. Brilliant!!

      The preparation of Ross Brawn for this interview is phenomenal!!

      I assume Ross+Schumi knew they were gonna exploit it at some point during the season.

  66. Lewis Hamilton not punished in CHINESE GRAND PRIX
    he push a Mark Webber out of truck.

  67. The rule is pretty obvious. I think they should put Alonso back to the 6th place and Schumacher 7th.

    1. Read the previous comments before repeating that nonsense over again.

  68. This is ridiculous, the organisers must chose, have real racing and let them fight, or run them behind the safety car over the line.

    Making RACING drivers go in a procession when the danger is not there (Otherwise the safety car should still be out) Is just bizarre for a sport that’s trying to actually improve the show!

  69. Why bring the SC in and start waving green flags if you’re not allowed to race? Keep waving yellows and there’s no confusion. Drivers are told they must obey the flags and as far as I know green means you are free to race.

    Great move, but unfortunately a penalty for racing when being shown the green flag would be exactly the kind of nonsense I would expect from the FIA.

  70. It’s perfectly valid. Safety car’s rules were changed on 2010. Michael just pass Fernando AFTER the Safety Car’s line, previous rules said that drivers couldn’t overpass before the end line. And the race didn’t finish until Mark passed the end line.
    So, Michael should keep the 6th position. I’m sorry for Fernando, he did a wonderful job anyway, but as Juan Manuel Fangio said: “Race just end with the checkered flag..”.
    Monaco don’t forgive errors, as Fernando tested yesterday and today again. Good for Michael, he still has things to teach to his colleagues

    1. The problem is that SC car would came in whether the track condition is green or yellow.
      In my mind, there should be no controversy about this though. It’s obvious that the SC came in because the track is green and not to mention the green flags/lights.

  71. Schumacher should not be punishment as he didnot do anything wrong. Check the video at the following bbc link:

  72. Gavin Campbell
    16th May 2010, 16:40

    Saftey car was brought in, the race did not finish under the saftey car. Game on, we all expected it watching on tv – fairplay.

  73. Seems to me the rule is badly written.

    “If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap…”

    Should that say?:

    “If the race will end whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap…”

    If the safety car is deployed presumably that means it’s on track? So if he crosses the line with the leader behind (who completes the last lap thus ending the race) how is it supposed to have also entered the pit lane at the end of that last lap?

  74. I cant see the problem, the rule says that to avoid the safety car taking the flag it will enter the pits but unlike previous safety cars there will be no overtaking. in a court of Law they would nail you with, good to see the old Schumi returning ;-)

  75. Let’s say the safety car came in and rule 40.13 applied anyway and they were not allowed to pass even on a clear track, I don’t really see the point for that rule to exist in the first place. The only reason I can think of for the safety car to come in on the last lap is for photogenic purposes. In that case, there’s nothing wrong with letting them race to the line is there? Pointless rule.

  76. no doubt schumi took a brilliant 6th matter about safety car,,,,,,if green light is there means RACE

  77. With or with out regulations was fun to watch. Hopefully didn´t had an accident and msybe they had learn a lesson.
    To Alonso, he will never do that again what ever happens.
    For me, at least, i would like other type of restarts like the ones being used in nascar.
    After a safety car period, the reasart would be a double file and they can only go racing after green flag waved so they can only switch position after start/finish line.
    Also if you wont racing till the end of the race, then, in this case a green /white chequers would be the best way to finish the race.
    SO, double file resarts and green white chequers would be wellcome to formula 1.

  78. I think that, Alonso should get the 6th place + I hate to say it, but Schumi should get small penalty as well.

  79. Stewards showed green flags there are screenshots of that.. this article is one-sided… yes rule 40.13 is clear but the flags should have been yellow if race is not on according to my understanding.. the safety car was in that lap and race was on they did not say the race is finishing under the safety car… so schumacher should be allowed to hold his place…

    1. and btw.. last year rules was after the safety car pulls in, overtaking is only allowed after the start-finish line, this year rules state that overtaking is allowed after the safety car line… schumacher did overtake alonso after the safety car line… so he complied with the regulations…

  80. clearly schumi has 6th place ross brawn has enough evidance!!unlucky alonso out done by the old master and no way is it illegal u just h8 shumi lol!!!!!

  81. I dont think the green flag story makes any sense. The drivers should know the circumstances of the restart before the SC car is in, not wait to see if the flags remain yellow or change to green at that point.

    It is more probable that the “SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP” message is more deterministic in this story.

    Anyway, the key issue I think is that the SC was out during last lap and the rules meant to say that it is not possible to end the race in normal racing conditions if this happens.

    I am starting to think even race direction got confused with this.

    1. I reckon, if there is a problem, It’s not with what Schumacher did, but what the race director did, and the lack of information available to the drivers concerning it.

  82. Once again we’re debating another penalty because the rules aren’t clear enough. In one way it suggests Schumacher’s move was illegal because the SC came in and you’re not allowed to overtake. But the signals and flags given to the drivers on the last lap made it seem like the race wasn’t going to finish under SC conditions, and if they were, they should have kept showing yellow flags and SC boards instead of green flags and lights.

    Let Schumacher keep his place and if it was illegal, then clarify the rule for the next race. Simple.

  83. Was that even legal!?

  84. The pass was legitimate. The mistake lies with the FIA bringing the safety car in with lights off and green flags. I would expect that in a situation where the race finishes under safety car, the lights should remain on, and yellow flags with SC boards should be displayed to the finish line, despite the car pulling into the pits.

    The case here was that the race was technically resumed, and so due to the new rules this year, the pass was legitimate.

    You have to admire the tact of Schumacher, he’s ultra competitive and has his brain engaged even at the very end. I know a lot of people don’t like him, but you still have to admire how well he knows this game. He never fails to impress me and cause controversy at the same time! I bet Damon Hill is having a miserable time knowing he technically can’t punish him!

    What I don’t dispute is that the pass is almost against the spirit of the rules. I’m not sure how much weight that carries, but rules are there to be pushed and bent, that’s for sure.

  85. 40.14 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the
    cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

    its not 40;13 it 40;14

  86. Nice cheeky pass for Schumi I would say. And we could see from Ross Brawn’s evidence that the marshals waved green flags and the race ended while the safety car is not deployed.

    But I think that the FIA should consider rewriting this regulation to rule out any controversies in the future.

  87. The commentary, in another language in this clip was so much more exciting than Legard on the BBC:

  88. I think the point people are missing here is that the rule says `no overtaking` on the last lap after the safety car peels off, whatever the flags are doing is irrelevent. The reason the flags come out green is to warn everyone (mainly the marshals) that we are in race conditions.

  89. The regulation is clear and ecxist because they don’t want to end the race under safety car if there was one more lap the safety car will not enter the pit ….so the schumacher should punished….

    1. nope… if there was still one more lap safety car may have entered the pitstop you never know.. i think they had cleared the cars and debry by then.. and anyways the point is that green flags were waving which means race on to the start finish line and the green flags are not waved so that the marshalls are warned… it is the marshalls who wave the flags.. the flags are to tell the driver the situation

      1. Dont forget that there are people track side who are not involved with the flag stations. The drivers know the situation is keep formation to the line irrespective of what flags are displayed.

        1. and you think the marshalls aren’t informed… it is their job to be informed whether cars are racing or not… and neways the accident did not occur in the last corner… so no marshall would go onto the track there anyways.. they were removing cars under the yellow flags…according to you they should have the green flag there also when the marshalls are clearing so that the marshalls will be careful.. when the safety car flag is out, it is out for the entire circuit… because it is the driver who has to be careful and avoid the accident and not the marshal.. the car is faster than the man…

          1. The only way to ensure that people like photographers, TV cameramen an marshals that are not in direct radio contact with race control that we are in race conditions is to wave the green flag, the drivers should know the rule about safety car on last lap, as they say `ignorance of the Law is no excuse`.

          2. that does not even make sense… The only way to ensure people like photographers, TV cameramen and marshal…. photographers aren’t allowed close to the circuits… they take photographs from stands.. and as far as i know no one goes to the race control area… and guess what schumacher gets a 20second penalty thanks to Damon Hill his arch rival who Schumacher beat by a point… and yes he did say yesterday that my relationship with Schumacher won’t affect my decisions but guess what it did.. if the race ends in safety car, the safety car goes in the last lap but yellow flags should be waving which indicates be careful no overtaking and not green flags which tell the drivers give it everything you have…

  90. Thank god it was not Hamilton who passed!!
    Am not a Schumy fan but if sc signs are in and green is shown – you are supposed to race & it could not have referred to the slowing down lap! It is plain to see they all went for it & Alonso was caught with his pants down pure & simple!! Whatever the outcome no way they can penalise him!

  91. The place should be given back to Alonso as the rules are clear. The points should be swapped. Michael Schumacher of all drivers should know what the rules are he’s been in the game long enough.

    Lorna Gellert

    1. To be honest, the rules are so ambigous, not even Schumacher (or Barrichello and his throwing the steering wheel antics, when he knows to put it back in position after getting out of the car) know what the rules in these situations are.

      1. I don’t even think it’s that ambiguous. The race did not finish under the safety car, it was not deployed when the overtake happened, and the overtake was after the safety car line and before the finish line.

        The pass was against the spirit of the rules, but follows them directly. The mistake was to resume the race instead of finishing under safety car.

  92. If the pass was after Webber had crossed the line, do the rules change? The race was then in the next lap.

    ~200 comments so fast, is that a record?

  93. +20 sec (vía Joe Saward)

  94. Shumi always saves something for Monaco aey?
    Thing is whether legal or not, Nando beat MS fair n square thruout the race…so MS sneaks thru at end..
    A bit classless, smart yes, but to take a place under such grey area when he got beat fair n square…
    well, he’s a racer, but I would like to think he has a bit more class than that….

  95. Schummy penalished 20 sec.

    1. I think this is the wrong decision. I’d be interested to know on what grounds this is based, as my interpretation (a literal interpretation) would say the pass was legitimate.

      At worst they should have swapped the places back, not a 20sec penalty. It was the race directors fault for bringing in the car and not finishing under SC, I don’t know why Schumacher is punished for that. He drove a solid race and doesn’t deserve to be demoted to 12th. Harsh, I wonder how much Damon Hill had to do with the decision.



  98. Shocking News: Schumacher gets a 20 second penalty ! He loses his position and is now 12th!!

    Buemi now is in the points!

    1. Webber, 2. Vettel, 3. Kubica, 4. Massa, 5. Hamilton, 6. Alonso, 7. Rosberg, 8. Sutil, 9. Liuzzi, 10. Buemi 11. Alguersuari 12. Schumacher!

    On with the Damon Hill revenge accusations!

    I think it was a confusing matter to all, getting a penalty is too much, they should’ve just switched their places back! Alonso did make a mistake after all and the sign did say that the track was clear.

  99. I bet Damon thought `Yes`, Ive waited 14 years for this moment :-)

  100. Fernando didn’t “sleep” ..The team told him “we couldn’t overtake” ….and the same to Hamilton

    20 sec …Ha ha ha …..Fernando is… Schumi’s Nightmare in Monaco ha ha

  101. The rule is dubious and the penalty is ridiculous. Why not make a simple rule or why not finished the race in safety car. Why the there is no yellow flag or why green flag is waived. CRAP!!

  102. THIS IS RICIDULOUS!! What a disgrace!!

    What counter arguments did they have for what Ross Brawn said here???

  103. Breaking News: Mercedes will appeal!

    1. Yes and they should sue the FIA for 20 millions that Hill pays 10% of too.

  104. This is ridiculous – why have a race and a really comprehensive rule book if it’s up to the stewards to come up with results as they please? Mercedes, Brawn (and quite frankly all the other teams and bosses)and commentators (who have been very lame in this matter, probably due to lack of rule knowledge) as well as all fans of F1 should take a strong stance against this ruling! Btw, Damon ridicules himself if supporting this silly ruling.

  105. @LAK and so they should!!!

    The complete safetycar regs.

    “40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed …”

    “40.4 When the order is given to deploy the safety car the message “SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED” will be displayed on the timing monitors and all marshal’s posts will display waved yellow flags and “SC” boards for the duration of the intervention.”

    “40.11 When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car the message “SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP” will be displayed on the timing monitors and the car’s orange lights will be extinguished This will be the signal to the teams and drivers that it will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap….As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the yellow flags and SC boards will be withdrawn and replaced by waved green flags with green lights at the Line. These will be displayed until the last car crosses the Line.”
    This ends the deployment of the safety car. In this case BEFORE the end of the race.
    So 40.13 does not apply as there were green flags

    1. Good job, mate!

  107. Stirling Moss said it best on Twitter @StirlingMossCom: “On a point of clarity the yellow lights on the circuit should have stayed yellow, they turned to green just after the safety car went in”

    On one side Mercedes saw that the SC was coming in, saw the track is clear message, Shumacher saw the green flags so they’re right in thinking that they can overtake.

    However, the rule clearly states that when the SC is out it will go in anyway on the last lap, but no overtaking is allowed. So Ferrari has the right to get their position back.

    This was a mistake I think from Race Control, the flags should’ve remained yellow like in previous races. @vee8 on twitter dug up a nice photo that shows that, check it out:

    Mercedes should have known the rule, even though the green flags were out, other teams like Ferrari and McLaren clearly instructed their drivers not to overtake.

    A confused Hamilton asked his team on the radio: “I thought you said we couldn’t pass after the safety car? Michael passed Fernando.”

    Mercedes were probably confused with the messages from Race Control. So since there were contradicting messages from Race Control they shouldn’t have punished Schumacher so harshly. Simply switching back their positions would have been suffice.

    1. Mercedes were not confused with the messages from Race Control but interpret them correctly :) :) :)

      Hill go to Hell head first please.
      I rather like the sound of it :)

      1. @heliwave: agreed!

      2. Yeah they did interpret them right, but I meant that it caused confusion because even though the rules were clear on no overtaking, they saw the green flag and light..

  108. As Brundle said………….So if any car stops (or breaks down) between the get go and the finish line, all other cars have to stop and wait behind???!!! Madness.

    MC should be praised and given the position back immediately.

  109. On previous occasions when it has been necessary to complete a race under a safety car, full course yellows are maintained, as in Melbourne 2009.

  110. From what can be seen on ,

    Mercedes GP has obviously all arguments & proofs to simply glide through the appeal process, and prove that the race control DID NOT act as per the Regulations – and smoothly recover MSC’s 6th place.

    Btw., do you know what MSC stands for ? “Move over, Safety Car” :-)

  111. just saw that on BBC F1 website, on ,

    there is a rather nonchalant reporter statement which
    literally says (quote) :

    “Schumacher passed Alonso on his way out of Rascasse and into Anthony Noghes, but the move came under a safety car.”

    As far as BBC goes, they shouldn’t air something so uncertain as a given fact. Mercedes GP has obviously got photographic evidence that not ALL preconditions were there in order for one to call that moment of the race as “under a safety car”.

    Btw. do you know what BBC stands for ? :-O

    1. On previous occasions when it has been necessary to complete a race under a safety car, full course yellows are maintained, as in Melbourne 2009 and today it was green flags.. the message mercedes got was safety car in track clear and not race effectively finishes under safety car.. lets see how Damon Hill responds.. he should be kicked out..

  112. Damon Hill. ’nuff said.

  113. slightly off-topic, but if you can read into this,
    there is a lot to “comprehend” from the following chart about how aerodynamic setup has to do a lot with Monaco race performance :


  114. Nutritional
    17th May 2010, 2:06

    I think the rules are the rules, but on the same hand, what the hell is the point of bringing the the safety car at the end of the last lap if the drivers aren’t allow to pass anyways.

  115. Poor Schuey. He will start to get cold shivers now every time he hears the word “Rascasse” :)

    Why is no one asking the question as to why the race wasn’t just red flagged when the crash happened? Sure it wouldn’t have been the most fitting way for Webber to end his race, but trundling around after the SC for 3 laps with a 100 metre sprint to the finish was a bit of a farce anyway. And then we wouldn’t have this should he/shouldn’t he scenario.

  116. i think there was a misunderstanding with the green lights. if they arent supposed to race under sc then it shouldve remained yellow.sounds like someone turned them green on accident/by mistake. keep in mind in monaco the podium is on the main straight so wouldnt make sense to drive the sc there. regardless of what color the flags were though, it says no racing under sc, so the move shouldnt count.


  118. I think the biggest confusion in the race was whether the cars ended the race behind the safety car and if u watched closely the SC was due to get in and race would go on normally. That means the pass was legal in the sense that we didn’t finish under the SC, there were no yellow flags either. Article whatever that was used to penalise Schumi just doesn’t hold!!!
    In the end brilliant thinking by Schumi and i forgive him fr what he did at The La Rascasse 3 years ago.

  119. “If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.
    Sporting regulations article 40.13″

    I think this rule is written with the 2 hour race limit in mind and did not apply at the 2010 Monaco GP.
    Mercedes just MUST appeal !!!

  120. i think that damoon hill want revenge to schumy beacuse for adelaide 1994 .i dont know what referes do in f1 sleep’?

  121. PeterMetro
    18th May 2010, 2:19

    What a stuff up.
    Cars do not overtake (whether behind a safety car or not) regardless of article 40.13, if waved yellows are being shown. Don’t you think it sends a mixed (unclear) message to any driver, to pull the safety car in, stop waving the yellow flags, bring out the green ones, start waving them, announce track clear (get on with racing)…safety car in…but, oh by the way…they forgot to announce NO OVERTAKING!! How stupid! How about we keep it really simple. If they don’t want cars to overtake after a safety car period…keep the yellow flags out! It’s not that hard. It’s not brain surgery. It’s ridiculous, and a little bit embarrassing. What a stuff up.

  122. I have not read the whole threat, but some that could be considered:

    as much as i don’t like NASCAR, something about it that would be an option to stop “controversy” as the one caused by Schumi’s pass on Alonso. Why not have a rule for White/Green finish in cases when the safety car will be expected to be out until the last lap. They could just add that extra lap to allow the race to end in “proper” competition. Some would consider it unfair to whomever is on first place but if something were to happen, who can predict that would not have occurred earlier in the race.

    just my 2 cents.

    1. It’s not really a solution – say the race goes green again, another crash happens, the safety car comes out and we’re back to square one.

  123. Keith:
    While all the articles I have read so far on F1 Fanatec have shown a refreshing common sense and honesty, I must point out an uncharacterisic contradiction in this article.

    You say “However the regulations suggest that on the last lap of the race if the safety car is brought in, such passes are not allowed, and the drivers must cross the finishing line without passing.”
    If you read the very rule you cite in the article, it says that, when the race ends under yellow, the pace car will pull in on the end of the last lap. There is no ‘if’, there is not choice to be made, it’s compulsory. The safety car simply cannot finish the race on the track.

    The mistake, in the grand prix, was to announce, on the last lap, “safety car in this lap”. This indicated the race would go green on the last lap + 1 which makes no sense.

    I my opinion, the blame for this whole controversy lies squarly on Charlie Whiting’s shoulders. The rules are clearly written. They were not correctly enforced for the race procedings.

    1. I don’t think that’s a contradiction I think you’re just taking what I’ve written a little too literally. In fact, I broadly agree with what you’re written, only I’m not sure about the exact timing and wording of the “safety car in” announcement, and what was communicated to the teams, so I don’t want to pre-judge anything on that.

  124. 40.13 should change to “it will enter the pitlane at the end of the last lap and the cars will follow the SC to the pitlane….well at least it much more clearly than old one. :)) just kidding :P

    1. Riff
      You are quoting rule 40.10!
      “Under certain circumstances the clerk of the course may ask the safety car to use the pit lane. In these cases, and provided its orange lights remain illuminated, all cars must follow it into the pit lane without overtaking. Any car entering the pit lane under these circumstances may stop at its designated garage area.”

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