Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Red Bull threw away a potential one-two finish in the Turkish Grand Prix after their drivers collided while leading.

Sebastian Vettel had pulled alongside team mate Mark Webber on the straight approaching turn 12 when the two made contact.

The collision put Vettel out on the spot. Mark Webber continued but had to pit to replace a damaged front wing and eventually finished third.

The pair were under pressure from Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren when they hit each other, and the accident let Hamilton by into the lead.

Vettel went down the inside of Webber as they blasted from turn 11 to turn 12. As Vettel drew past he moved towards Webber and the pair made contact. Vettel spun off with a burst tyre.

Afterwards Vettel said:

I was able to go quicker the two or three laps before. I had the corner on the left and was just trying to focus on braking point and all of a sudden I lost the car. You can see on the television we made contact.

I’m not kind of guy that pushes all the fault to one guy we are a team.
Sebastian Vettel

Webber explained what happened in the press conference:

Seb had big top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side for a while.

The he turned pretty quick right and we made contact. It happened very, very fast. It’s a shame for the team, it’s obviously not an ideal day.

There was long way to go in race, it wasn’t a guaranteed victory. But but it was an interesting few metres and in the end it wasn’t the result either of us want.
Mark Webber

Team boss Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” by the collision, adding “we handed 43 points to McLaren on a plate.”

Afterwards Lewis Hamilton said Vettel’s move on Webber was the same as one Vettel made on him when he tried to pass Vettel at the same place earlier in the race.

Who do you blame for the Red Bull collision?

  • Sebastian Vettel (75%)
  • Mark Webber (8%)
  • Both of them (14%)
  • Neither (3%)

Total Voters: 4,338

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416 comments on Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

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  1. razer19 said on 30th May 2010, 14:56

    Eddie Jordan said what is Vettel supposed to do, stay behind him all race?! YES! Of course he is! I mean come on what’s better getting a 1-2, with you getting second and having your teammate win, more importantly holding the Mclarens at bay (your closest rivals in the constructors) or pulling a complete jackass move in the middle of the race that takes out yourself and robs your teammate of a win and your team of 1-2. I used to support the kid, but now I don’t.

    Bad job by Red Bull consoling him, you got sit down with him and set him straight. Even Martin Whitmarsh said he wouldn’t be going and rubbing him and making him feel good on the pit wall like they were…

    • Sandman said on 30th May 2010, 15:08

      Wasn’t it Jordan who ordered Ralf Schumacher to stay behind Damon Hill?

      • Eddie Irvine said on 30th May 2010, 15:17

        good point sandman! spa 98

      • LooseCruze said on 30th May 2010, 16:20

        Speaking of team orders: does anyone think that McLaren are trying there hardest to hamper Lewis to help Jensen, who is clearly not as fast as Lewis and like last year is lucky to be where he is!

        -The odd pit stop, you would have thought McLaren would have waited for Red Bull to blink 1st so as to give Lewis, who was obviously fast, some clear air in order to jump Webber.

        -The pit stop itself was botched, loosing Lewis a place and nearly giving Jensen a jump on Lewis, again!

        -Again Lewis was quite subdued on winning and appeared to questioning Jensen on team communication…During the race Lewis was told to ease up, due to fuel. a few laps later Jensen gets a run at him….after Lewis gets the place back and gets back on a decent pace, then we here the team radio telling Jensen to ease up because of fuel!????

        -It is clear that Lewis was asked to slow down and not Jensen, this allowed Jensen to surprise Lewis with that overtake. I think Lewis new this is what was going on as realises that his own team tried to hamstring him, again, in order to help pretty boy Jensen.

        -Lewis Hamilton, by any standard, is the better driver at McLaren and in my opinion the best on the grid; enough this nonsense that Vettel is ‘the new Scumacher’. I think its a shame to see how such nasty politics is getting into F1..

        • matt90 said on 30th May 2010, 16:25

          Yeah. because McLaren would purposely botch a pit stop so as to loose a position to a competing team.

          And if you watched the bbc coverage they said that McLaren were already going to pit, but Red Bull pulled Webber in at the last minute to cover them.

        • Mark in Florida said on 30th May 2010, 17:14

          Yea when strategy in a race does`nt go your way perfectly lets pull out the race card.Come on now Jenson was the one behind the eight ball at the beginning of the season not Lewis.Jenson proved that last year was no fluke and no, I am not a fan of Jenson or that prima donna he is teamates with.If you objectively look at past race data Jenson is in fact the smoother driver.He is easier on his tires and fuel use.Every team he has driven for has noted this particular virtue.Hamilton is blazingly fast but at the expense of fuel and tires.

        • VXR said on 30th May 2010, 17:22

          Clearly Jenson is rubbish and all effort should be fully concentrated on Hamilton’s efforts.

          Clearly Webber is equally rubbish and all effort should be concentrated on Vettel’s efforts.

          My info is that Hamilton had less fuel onboard than Button. This would have given him chance to capitalise on that early in the race, but would compromise is race towards the end, as it did.

          • Hare said on 30th May 2010, 23:21

            Clearly those two are rubbish are they? You don’t think that Jenson was saving his tires and hanging back for opportunities that actually did come later on in the race?

            VXR. None of these drivers are ‘rubbish’. Jenson is the reigning world champ, Joint top race winner of the season. Webber has won 2 races prior to this, still managed to be third this race, and even his own boss admits he’s been at another level to everyone else the last few races.

            This is F1, the best of the best.

          • ScareCrow said on 1st June 2010, 10:14

            Clearly VXR you are rubblish because your not an F1 driver. Button won the championship last year and out performed his team mate this year so has Webber. Its pretty clear to me that you are just a dumb nerd that isn’t a f1 fanatic to know that both those drivers have shruggled with under performing cars unlike vettel and hamilton whom are spoilt coming into big teams as a rookie.

        • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 17:22

          There is something clearly going on at McLaren, and i think Lewis is finally onto it. I see him leaving McLaren at the end of this year.

          • Tobitron said on 30th May 2010, 18:28

            Lol, you people make me laugh.

          • pking007 said on 30th May 2010, 19:27

            Something is up at MacLaren and as I said in another post on PF1. Martin Whitmarsh does not like LH after their history and tbh I think Whitmarsh is favouring JB.

            I cant help but think that LH and his Dad’s problem with MW many years ago where Whitmarsh tore up Lewis’s contract but got overruled by Ron Dennis for LW to stay on at Macca is hampering relations b/w Lewis and Whitmarsh especially in the absence of Ron. Just look at LH’s body language!!! His first win of the season and no celebration! So subdue. LH knows something is up. othwerwis why would they allow JB had a run at him? why was he told to slow down? why was Benson Jutton not told to slow down until after LH had repelled him? “Mickey Blue eyes i’ll say.” when the situation were reversed earlier in the season, Macca found a reason to bring LH in for an unnecesary pit stop. you go figure

          • Dianna said on 30th May 2010, 19:45

            Lewis was subdued on the podium,why????.I would have thought he and Jenson would have been jumping with delight,but not at all,very strange behaviour.

          • ScareCrow said on 1st June 2010, 10:20

            the thing is where could lewis go, the top 2 teams that could offer him good salary and another chance at the drivers championship are mclaren or ferrari. I doubt it ferrari would have him alongside fernando like in 07′.

        • YeaMon said on 30th May 2010, 18:35

          Give me a break. You’re Lewis Hamilton fanboyism has clearly made your good racing judgment fade away.

        • Yes!!!!!!!!!!
          I agree with you 100%
          The Mclaren strat is geared towards Jenson Button and NOT Lewis Hamilton

          Thank God, Lewis is the talented of the two and can fight his own battles without the help of the team

          BUT
          If were him, i would be looking at other offers.

          • Tobitron said on 30th May 2010, 19:18

            He’s going to leave a team that supported HIM more than a reigning double world champion and served him up a championship winning car 3 times? Hahaha.

            We don’t know what goes on behind the scenes of McLaren, so who’s to say Jenson gets more support than Lewis? No-one, that’s who.

          • ConcedoNulli said on 30th May 2010, 22:38

            Yes the evidence does suggest that they are favouring Button strategy. Obviously they left the bung in the side pod to enhance his chances of gaining points in Monaco.

        • Sam...wise said on 30th May 2010, 20:07

          LH’s tires were shot, they said as much after the race. He had to come in and RBR reacted very well. Don’t think there is any favouritism in that team, yet.

          • ScareCrow said on 1st June 2010, 10:32

            the team favour Vettel more and it can’t get more clear than the response Helmut Marko who is the boss of Red Bull Motorsport. He told the media that Webber should of let him through and also he blamed the whole thing on Webber. Unfortunately nationality has alot to do with it. RBR is an Austrian team and who more better do they want to win than a German. The team cuddled Vettel after the incident, normally with another person they would of been disciplined. Its all BS and I’ve had enough of Red Bull after the turkey collision. I was a diehard RBR supporter before this because Christian Horner kept implying how the team treats both drivers equally but after turkey in my eyes this is no longer valid. I’ll still support Webber but Vettel is no long the champion material I’d thought he was back when he was with Toro Rosso.

        • haha said on 30th May 2010, 21:08

          Even his pit stop was compromised allowing Vettel to get ahead of him. That is what happens when Hamilton’s managers are not in the garage unlike the days when his father use to bring some authority with him. Even his team thinks they can mess about with him now.

        • Cube said on 30th May 2010, 21:16

          For an F1 fan I’m amazed you can’t spell Jenson’s name correctly. Its quite irritating. I suppose you call Ross Brawn – Braun, too eh?

        • Metallion said on 30th May 2010, 22:13

          I’m not going to comment everything LooseCruze, as many others already have.

          However, you should know that this year it’s a disadvantage to stay out longer because the ones on fresh tires will be faster. If hamilton had stayed out he would have been further behind. If Webber had stayed out, Hamilton would most likely have passed him.

          It is absolutely ridiculous to see all these comments about McLaren favoring Button. I mean, Hamilton’s been supported by McLaren since he was 10, why would they after so many years of working together try to sabotage for him. Every team has problems with pit stops sometimes. Mistakes happen, that’s it.

          If anything, Jenson has proved his critics wrong this year by winning 2 races and matching Hamilton’s pace.

          Just for the record, I support neither of the two drivers so I’m looking at things from a neutral point of view.

          And lastly, thanks to Keith for the great articles!

          • Hare said on 30th May 2010, 23:27

            @Metallion, most sensible comment on this thread so far. McLaren are the ultimately fair play team historically, to their detriment, often.

            It does seem though that LH is not getting on terrifically with his race engineer. He complained a little about this in the press conference. ‘ It was not always easy to understand what they wanted from me’. Seems to be a little friction there.

        • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 6:50

          you have some points here, unfortunately all are a little besides the reality.

          1. Lewis wanted to get into the pits before Mark, covering Vettels stop. But Red Bull saw them getting out and quickly covered Lewis.

          2. You cannot seriously think that McLaren have done a slow pitstop on purpose losing Lewis a race position to Red Bull instead of getting in front of another?

          3. Jenson had been saving tyres and fuel from a point earlier than Lewis and had got in a good optimum pace, so he could close up when Lewis had to start saving fuel as well.
          4. Sure Lewis was suprised, as was the McLaren pit wall. After making some nice on track moves, Lewis ended up back first and Button was told to back off (he went a second per lap slower). And Button apologized for the thing.
          5. Great you are convinced, Lewis is the better driver. Sure he is a great racer, but he can still learn something and he is learning quick the last 2 years first from not having a winning car and now from having a team mate who can think for himself. Button is really good at the moment, not sure if he is better.

        • Todfod said on 31st May 2010, 13:16

          @ LooseCruze. No offense to you or your opinion, but I think that the is an absolutely rubbish conspiracy theory. Lewis will always be McLarens #1, and there is no way any driver…(even Fernando Alonso), would get any sort of preferential treatment over Lewis.

        • Hamish said on 31st May 2010, 14:13

          Loosecruz – “I think its a shame to see how such nasty politics is getting into F1..”

          Is getting into Formula 1? Have you been in a cave for the last 20 years with your eyes closed and your fingers in your ears, whilst humming?

          Mate I’m sure theres been seasons where theres been more politics, controversies, slagging matches and situations ending in “gate” then overtaking maneuvers.

        • Clive said on 6th June 2010, 2:00

          “does anyone think that McLaren are trying there hardest to hamper Lewis to help Jensen,”

          …er no actually.

          And as to the surprise shown by Lewis, we now know why as he was told that Jenson would not pass him.

          There is no conspiracy mate

    • matt90 said on 30th May 2010, 15:14

      Plus, the issue wasn’t even Vettel trying to overtake, the issue was Vettel swerving into Webber while overtaking. Eddie seems to speak nonsense far too often.

      • Whitmarsh quote: ” was a little surprised by the extent to which the Red Bull team were cuddling Sebastian Vettel on the pit wall”

        Vettel tried to pull the same move on Lewis, who later mentioned it during the F1 BBC Forum. Later in the race, it didn’t work as well for Seb. What a numbnut

    • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 15:46

      You talk like Vettel did it on purpose. A 1-2 is the desired result, especially if you are in front – that was all he was trying to do. This was simply a racing incident. His “sudden” turn to the right was actually caused by their rear wheels touching. Watch the replay again.
      The McLarens could easily have gone the same way. They were very very lucky

      • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 15:59

        The rear weels weren’t touching!

        Vettel moves to the right and hits webbers front left with his rear tyre.

        BTW I don’t think you can blame the McLaren drivers for their racing skills.

        • Mike said on 30th May 2010, 16:14

          Pat, By the Mclaren thing I think he means that an incident could have occurred, because the cars were fighting. Which it could have, the RBR incident wasn’t any-ones fault in particular, It was just an unfortunate event for the team.

          • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:18

            I know what he means, but I don’t see why it’s “luck” that racers like Button and Hamilton are able to overtake without crashing. This is exactly what distinguishes racers from the rest, the ability to overtake without having an accident.

        • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:18

          I am sure, If you watch the replay carefully, you will see their rear wheel touch briefly when they moved close. This is what dramatically moved Vettel towards the right.

          • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:43

            After watching the replay gain, i take back the comment above regarding Vettels move to the right. It is clear he did move to the right because that’s what you would do to sweep through the left hander coming up.
            He expected Webber to do the same as it would be normal. Webber decided to squeeze Vettel and delay the move – they collided. A marginal racing incident.
            Vettel could have stayed on his line, but knew he would be squeezed as the left hander approached. Webber could have moved right as normal, but he knew this would leave Vettel clearly ahead of him at the corner.
            A racing incident that could have been avoided by both drivers – but as Vettel was the aggressor, he should have taken more care. Simples!

          • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:44

            Look at the on board footage from Webber’s car.

            Vettel’s rear wheel touches Webber’s FRONT wheel.

          • Ben Curly said on 30th May 2010, 18:20

            Webber was keeping his racing line, and there was enough space for Vettel to overtake. He didn’t squeeze him to the side of the track or anything like that. It was Seb who decided to turn right into Mark’s car.

          • Whitmarsh quote: ” was a little surprised by the extent to which the Red Bull team were cuddling Sebastian Vettel on the pit wall”

            Vettel tried to pull the same move on Lewis, who later mentioned it during the F1 BBC Forum. Later in the race, it didn’t work as well for Seb. What a numbnut

            Someone tell Vettel to stop pushing people like he owns the place (remember the pitstop incident with Lewis?) That guy needs to grow up. Button and Lewis at least have some respect for each other and tend to give each other more space when racing

      • David A said on 30th May 2010, 16:18

        Seb’s sudden turn to the right is actually what causes the contact between Webber’s front and Vettel’s rear tyre. The rear wheels of both cars didn’t touch each other, let alone cause Vettel to swerve.

      • VXR said on 30th May 2010, 17:28

        “The McLarens could easily have gone the same way. They were very very lucky”

        Overtaking really ought to be banned!

        • They respect each other by giving a bit more space. Vettel’s move was rediculous… dangerous driver (but noone is blaming him for dangerous driving like they did when Lewis tried to break Petrov tow (no collision there!)

        • JonH said on 31st May 2010, 4:54

          What’s F1 without overtaking?

        • BigGalah said on 31st May 2010, 12:47

          LOL! Very good…

          we need more humour in the forums :-)

    • Jordan was also notorious for laying into his drivers if they came anywhere near each other on the track. Ralf Schumacher picked up a valuable podium for Jordan in the Argentine race of 1997, but EJ was more concerned with berating him for punting teammate Fisichella off earlier in the race.

      Maybe he’s mellowed in his old age….

      • no, he just likes to consitently contradict himself

        • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:19

          I think he’s just incredibly in love with Vettel. It’s not as gut wrenching as it was at the beginning of 2009, but still.

    • nik said on 30th May 2010, 17:43

      the plot thickens:

      “Mark Webber was ordered to turn his engine down on the lap that Sebastian Vettel tried the move on him. Story on autosport.com soon”

      from: http://twitter.com/NobleF1/statuses/15050392813

      if it turns out that the team ordered Mark to tune down, while allowing Vettel to steam ahead, this is going to be a huge controversy, and personally as a Red Bull fan I would be very very upset if that was even close to true.

      I really hope Mark kicks Vettel till the end of the season now and wins the WDC by outclassing Seb, in the same way he has been the past 3 weekends (comprehensively, mind you)

      • steph said on 30th May 2010, 17:55

        Mark wouldn’t actually have to have an order from the pit wall to turn it down. It would show on his dash that he needed to conserve fuel I think.

        • Mark’s team dont sit close to Seb’s team… thats not the case in McLaren so teamwork is a little better there

      • Max said on 30th May 2010, 18:25

        All the current and ex F1 drivers (Brundle, Wruz, Hamilton, Coulthard & Davidson) all felt Vettel was at fault. Their opinion counts for much more than any of ours.

        • Rob said on 31st May 2010, 3:18

          I completely agree

          Unfortunately Christain Horner and Helmut Marko are blaming Mark, it smells like Vettel is the favourite…..

        • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 6:55

          Paul posted some information, that Nico Rosberg was shown the crash at German Sky channel after the race and also stated Vettel to have been at fault.
          Apart from the Vettel and the Red Bull team management, this is clear for everybody to see.

      • Alex 3 said on 30th May 2010, 19:25

        I do not doubt for one minute that Seb had more fuel and could run full power for at least 1 maybe 2 laps because he was following LH for so long while MW had to race hard to keep LH behind. The idea of team orders setting this fiasco up is ludicous and borders on conspiracy theory.
        Seb admits he lost the car under braking on the dirty side of the track and it moved right so quickly MW had no chance to move. MW had given him plenty of room. If you look at LH and JB, they gave each other the same amount of room and nearly collided on LH’s pass back at turn 1.
        A racing incident we have all seen many times before. It was a good race to watch.
        P.S. For all the nay sayers. MS finished 4th ahead of NR in case you were watching and passe JB early in the race. With a McLaren under him MS would be well in the podium today!

    • Paul said on 31st May 2010, 16:10

      ark should have let the faster car pass. Without that Hamilton would have taken Vettel and possibly Mark as well. It’s almost as though mark slowed to let Hamilton pass Vettel. Vettel was preparing for a fast approaching corner, on the dirty side of the track . Mark gave Vettel no choice, either lose the car on the dirty sude of the track or run in to him. Mark was not prepared to let him pass even though he was slower. As far as I can see it is simply poor sportmanship from Mark.

  2. saab said on 30th May 2010, 14:57

    Vettel: “We were all at the same speed so I thought I could overtake”… Eh yeah? As I see it, it is 100% Vettel’s fault. They are team mates, they are leading 1-2. If you gonna overtake then, it should be really clear-cut and executed well before the corner without any stupid risks. I think Webber saw him but thought that Vettel is just showing his nose a bit but obviously would not risk something that stupid – then bam! – Vettel just steers into the side of Marks car! Stupid rookie mistake from Vettel.

    • Hare said on 30th May 2010, 15:20

      If you look at the video, it’s gets a little harder to figure it out.

      Vettel looks like he’s got position, you can see that perhaps he thought he was past him, and perhaps he thought webber would give him space. Whats interesting though, is he definitely thinks Webber was to blame immediately afterwards. Webber was a bit quiet about it afterwards, perhaps he had a feeling he could have avoided it too, by giving him more space? :)

      video replay : http://bit.ly/9h6vFC

      • saab said on 30th May 2010, 15:36

        He could have avoided it if he had given him space… But they were racing for positions and Webber were not at all out of shape to take the corner in a normal matter. In fact, he were in such position on the track that *if* you do make a move on him you clearly expect him to move aside to give room. In my book that is the wrong way to think, especially if it is your team mate and your running 1-2. If they were side by side 200 meters earlier then yes, see who can outbrake who. Now, it was a stupid move. Also, using such a narrow bit of track that obviously is dirty is to risk even more.

        • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 6:57

          Running 1-2 with Lewis right behind them making this lunge to the side even more risky

      • It looks like Webber just held his position and Vettel moved into him. Webber probably could have given him more room, but it was Vettel who initiated contact, I think.

        Vettel’s fault.

        • bertie said on 30th May 2010, 19:25

          I believe that while this is probably his fault. I do feel that considering he was almost a car length in front that Webber would have given him more room. For me if this was between two different teams the matter would much simpler and Vettel would be to blame. However, because it involved his team mate, I cant help but feel that Webber was unnecessarily aggressive.

          • Alex 3 said on 30th May 2010, 19:31

            There is no car length advantage involved here. If you watch the replay it is very clear that SB moved right and hit the side pod of MW’s car with his rear wheel. In other words his rear wheel was between MW’s left front and left rear. That is not exactly a car length advantage and MW was right to hold his line with the room he gave Seb.

          • Bill said on 30th May 2010, 23:57

            Are you blind? “almost a car length in front”!?

            C’mon, I’m not a fan of either driver nor the team but it’s amazing how presumably impartial and intelligent fans can proffer such a skewed perspective on a pretty black-and-white incident.

      • David said on 30th May 2010, 15:57

        Or perhaps is more professional in his behind-the-scenes criticism of Vettel, whereas Vettel is still young and less experienced…

      • Webber was quite thinking “I gotta leave this weird Red Vettel Bull team…”

        Whitmarsh quote: ” was a little surprised by the extent to which the Red Bull team were cuddling Sebastian Vettel on the pit wall”

      • Bill said on 30th May 2010, 23:54

        What? Actually the video clearly shows it was Vettel that made a catastrophic error, full stop. It doesn’t muddy anything.

        “…that perhaps he thought he was past him,”

        “…perhaps he thought webber would give him space.”

        No one gets into F1 by clumsily tossing their car about and presuming everyone else will get out of their way.

        • Hare said on 31st May 2010, 1:24

          An error based on what? A twitch in his arm? Or an idea that Webber would move over? (Team mates / race leaders / championship leaders taken in to consideration) My offered opinion is completely reasonable.

          You’re right, no one does get in to F1 by being clumsy. They’re a team.

          Horner said afterwards he felt both should have given each other more space. I agree Vettel is largely at fault. But of all the people on the track, he’d probably thought his team mate would have let go at that point. (clearly faster, happier on the tires)

  3. Macca said on 30th May 2010, 14:58

    This confirms and inhances my dislike (im not prepared to say hatered yet) for Vettel, first at Fuji, under a saftey car no less in the jr team and now here in Turkey. He needs to grow up and respect what is best for the team.

    He drove in Turkey and he drove like a turkey.

  4. Tom said on 30th May 2010, 14:59

    Sorry Seb, but it definitely looked like you tried to move out (I’m guessing he thought he was past Webber).

    Second time now ;)

  5. Monaco73 said on 30th May 2010, 14:59

    Huh – Christian Horner just sounded like he wanted to pin the result of the collision on Webber for not “giving space”. Isn’t this racing or not? For my money Seb drifted across too early.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 15:02

      Yeah, I got the same feeling from Horner’s rant.

      • Sam...wise said on 30th May 2010, 15:54

        From the replay, it looked like Horner shouted “MOVE!” to the TV screen and that Webber should have moved out the way…but I think Vettel had enough room to do his business without having to move into Webber.

        • sumedh said on 30th May 2010, 19:05

          I was trying to lip-read Horner from the replays, but couldn’t understand!!

          But yes “MOVE” makes sense!! He thinks Webber should have moved,

          Nice catch Sam…wise

          But I agree with Horner. Had Webber heeded his advice, and MOVED, he would have got the racing line for the next corner before Vettel and probably repassed him!!

          • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:01

            Yes because as a competitive F1 driver your first reaction should be to always yield to a driver that does not have position to legitimately overtake you.

        • Seb is a dangerous driver… lost all respect for him… he can’t handle being No.2 so now he’s out of top 3 even…

    • Horacio said on 30th May 2010, 15:11

      I thought exactly the same, and when he said it I thought it was ridiculous. Horner insisted that HAM and BUT had a good fight but, again, giving each other space…
      I truly hope RBR will NOT pin this childish incident on Webber.

      • Clay said on 30th May 2010, 15:49

        If RBR do try and shift blame from their golden boy to Mark any chance Webbo might be calling Domenicali later this week???

    • David BR said on 30th May 2010, 15:15

      Definitely seemed that way. If so, an even worse scenario for RBR since it would indicate a clear team preference for Vettel. Basically Horner would be saying Webber had to move over (off his race line) for Vettel’s benefit. As soon as Vettel started the move, I thought there was no way he’d make it, too much pace to kill before the turn without veering into Webber or losing traction.

      • Mike said on 30th May 2010, 16:20

        I don’t think so buddy, I doubt that team if any is going to give preferential treatment. And they still had plenty of room for the corner.

        • David BR said on 30th May 2010, 16:34

          Well, we’ll see I guess. Having correctly predicted this incident yesterday (!) based on the animosity evidently brewing pre-race, I’d say that Vettel’s over-confidence derived from an idea that Webber would give way, based on his own sense that he’s the preferred driver. This must have some basis in how he’s treated by RBR. Maybe it’s simply an age thing: he’s ‘the future.’ But Vettel also always strikes me as Schumacher-ish in his refusal to accept blame.

        • David BR said on 30th May 2010, 23:22

          Think you should reconsider Mike. Try reading the interview with Marko: http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2010/5/10855.html
          Clear that he/RBR feel that one person was to blame and that was Webber. Also I suspect the team’s strategy was indeed to slow Webber and send Vettel past so he wouldn`t be caught by Hamilton – but WITHOUT this looking like team orders. Sneaky: tell one driver to ease off the engine power and the other to the do the opposite. And see what happens. Well we saw what happens! The question is WHY they would want to preserve Vettel at Webber’s cost.

          • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 7:03

            The stupid thing about this is, that Webber would have probably been passed by Hamilton as well.
            So instead of having the faster Vettel block Hamilton (like Alonso did for Massa in Melbourne) and bring home the 1-2, they wanted Vettel in front and would have Webber getting home in 3rd.
            Where is the logic in that? One reason: preffering Vettel to win.
            Sounds a lot like McLaren 2007 right at the end of season.

          • David BR said on 31st May 2010, 19:23

            But Dennis/McLaren at least had an evident reason for ‘racing against Alonso’ in 2007. What’s Webber done to deserve this treatment from RBR? Presumably: beat Vettel!

            And to return to my earlier point (in response to Mike), again Marko himself suggested Vettel ‘had no option’ but to veer right as he couldn’t brake on the dirty side into the corner without losing it. There simply wasn’t room for both of them at the speed Vettel had gone in.

    • matt90 said on 30th May 2010, 16:22

      I suppose that Webber could have moved over a bit seeing as both drivers were off line at that point heading in. Vettel probably wanted more space so he could get a better line into the corner. If neither driver had moved it probably would have been difficult for both drivers to get round, especially without a mclaren getting past. That said, Vettels move seemed foolish, or at least far too sudden. Perhaps he should still have tried to push Webber over, but not so quickly that Webber didn’t have time to recognise he was being pushed.

      • matt90 said on 30th May 2010, 16:33

        Seeing that video actually makes me feel a bit more that Webber could have moved over after Vettel got ahead. I think Webber put Vettel in that position where Vettel was more likely to make an error.

        It actually reminds me of the Vettel Hamilton pit incident. Both Hamilton and Webber needn’t have been where they were, but Vettel then did not need to Squeeze Hamilton or move across the front of Webber.

  6. Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 15:01

    What strikes me most is that Vettel doesn’t seem to understand when he does something wrong.

    When he rammed Kubica in Australia 2009 he was making gestures at Kubica too (when he passed Kubica’s crashed car). Now he rams Webber and he makes gestures that Webber is crazy …

    Vettel can only hope that he doesn’t get an “avoidable accident” penalty.

    BTW Nicole really sounds awful. How does Lews stand that woman?

    • hawkfist said on 30th May 2010, 15:07

      He drives a very loud car, his hearing probably isn’t great, but his eyes will be able to take in the view just fine ;)

      • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:08

        meh, she’s a bit soft and covered in 10lbs of product. Now J. Michibata, that’s who I’ll miss seeing in pitlane.

    • matt90 said on 30th May 2010, 15:19

      He probably takes consolation from the fact that when she’s talking, at least she isn’t singing.

    • Dennis said on 30th May 2010, 15:27

      Well actually I remember him understanding he did make a mistake. The “I’m sorry guys, I’m an idiot”-radiomessage is still pretty clear in my memory. He did gesture indeed. He made a mistake here too, Webber isn’t supposed to give him any space. Webber was just defending his position and Vettel decided to steer in anyway. Pretty dumb mistake. Oh I wouldn’t mind trading in single life for a life with Nicole :p Singing is probably not the only quality she has :p

    • Tom said on 30th May 2010, 15:37

      He wasn’t gesturing that Webber was crazy he was gesturing for the forks to lift his car out of the way.

    • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 15:47

      LOL!. She is American…remember?

    • Chua said on 30th May 2010, 16:10

      At first I thought the gestures were him blaming himself for being crazy. That’s when the first quotes I heard (via the liveblog) from him, admitting that he was an idiot. The post-race quotes I’ve read from him were not like that though..

    • Daffid said on 30th May 2010, 17:04

      “What strikes me most is that Vettel doesn’t seem to understand when he does something wrong.” – he’s trying to live up to his billing as the new Schumacher ;)

      Seriously though, there’s a hell of a lot of successful people who get there simply because they never question their own ‘rightness’… it’s a shame the world is run that way, but people want winners and don’t generally look much beyond that. There’s plenty of drivers DC springs to mind – who would beat themselves up for weeks over a collision like that, and it would damage them. The successful guys just move on certain they were right all along.

    • They need to replace Vettel with Kubica… that’d be an awesome team

      You’re right, that guy needs to grow up

    • Matt said on 31st May 2010, 0:05

      And not the first time Vettel has made a mistake a hit Webber… Japan 2007 anyone?

  7. Macca said on 30th May 2010, 15:01

    Did anyone see Hamilton and Webber discussing the crash in the post race press confrence while Button was talking about his race. It looked like both of them suggested that Vettel moved right. That’s what it look like with their hand gestures.

    • HounslowBusGarage said on 30th May 2010, 15:18

      Yes very much so. I’d love to hear precisely what those two were saying, but the hand gestures were very clear.
      Previous to that, just before they came out for the Podium they were discussing it with Webber whose facial expression betrayed his disgust.
      The big question is whether this will affect the pairing and the team from here on.

      • Hare said on 30th May 2010, 15:25

        In the press conference afterwards, Ham asked Webber what happened while Button was talking, Webber put his hands side by side, mimicking the cars, then pushed of of the out the way. He thinks Vettel for no reason just ran in to him.

        However, watching the video back, it’s not so easy to blame Vettel, as he’s got reason to believe he’s well past Webber, and Webber would give him room for the corner. He clearly thinks so immediately afterwards. I believe there’s a hint of Webber thinking he could have avoided the crash.

        What is sure, no one wanted that crash to happen in the Red Bull team.

        video replay : http://bit.ly/9h6vFC

        • Hamilton felt like Vettel did the same for him. Vettel was stupid today.

          Again Vettel fans will have to count lost points at the end of the season…

        • nik said on 30th May 2010, 16:06

          thanks for providing the video.

          I don’t think Seb will be trying that type of move again. Hamilton learnt not to just dive down the inside some time ago – and now Seb has learnt the hard way. Mark would have had to give way for Seb to make that corner, which isn’t how overtaking should work (ie. let me take that spot or we are both out) – especially not amongst team mates.

          Webber is probably the worst driver to try it against – he is very defensive. Completely Seb’s fault, and if Horner tries to blame this on Mark I will be very upset at the team.

          • TomD11 said on 30th May 2010, 17:39

            Yeah I think before the podium and in the press conference Lewis was saying to Webber that Vettel had pulled the same sort of shenanigans with him. I think in their little chat before the podium, Jenson thought Lewis was talking about him and their little tussle and so started to explain that he hadn’t done anything untoward to catch Lewis up. Then Lewis told him he was talking about Vettel and also realised they were being listened to.

        • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:14

          That’s the same video that’s already linked to this article.

          Yes, it’s VERY easy to blame Vettel. He has NO reason to believe he’s “well passed” Webber. Is he so inexperienced that he hasn’t developed a sense for when he’s 1+ car lengths AHEAD of another car? He moved right and he right wheel hit Webber’s sidepod ffs!

          So yeah I guess if he thought he was “well past” Webber that his judgement is pretty damn terrible. I think Webber’s reaction post-race was more someone trying not to say what he truly thinks of his teammate.

          • Hare said on 31st May 2010, 1:28

            You should know, that link was posted before Keith added it to the article. But thanks for the positive vibe.

            Yes Bill, I’m saying his judgement was terrible.

            I agree about Webber’s reaction.

  8. Simon said on 30th May 2010, 15:02

    He was up the inside, had the advantage but them tried to muscle Webber and cement the lead. Webber did not move, as I think he was not expecting it and probably would not give him extra room anyway. Vettel was to aggresive.

    • DASMAN said on 30th May 2010, 19:31

      Totally disagree – if both drivers had held their line they would not have made the corner properly.
      Approaching a left hander the correct thing is to sweep slightly right before you brake for the corner. Mark was half a car length behind and had already lost the position, but refused to yield. It was always going to end badly if he didn’t move over to the right slightly to give room. Whats the point in defending a place thats already gone? I would always expect a driver to move right before going left and Mark is experienced enough to know that.

      • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:17

        Explain to me how Vettel’s right rear tire exploded if he was a car length ahead?

        Oh yeah, he wasnt. He was at most a half-car length ahead because he right rear burst upon contact with Webber side pod. You know, the thing that’s at the MIDDLE of an F1 car?

      • LAK said on 31st May 2010, 0:22

        This would have been a good point if Vettel didn’t swerve right into Webber, Hamilton also said that Vettel moved right into him earlier in the race at the same spot..

        Vettel should’ve either stuck to his line, and if he saw that there’s not enough space he should’ve backed off (however, most ppl in the know are saying that Webber gave Vettel enough space).

        Mark could’ve saved the moment and moved a little to save their race and give up his lead, but he had the right to stay in his line specially since he gave Vettel enough space, it was Vettel that turned into him causing the crash..

        • DASMAN said on 31st May 2010, 1:02

          I’d agree he(MW) is within his rights to hold his line, but as I said above, whats the point? Why take the risk?

          • We want turbos said on 31st May 2010, 2:50

            Look at the championship points who is top? And who would have been if vettel had made the move stick?… No I actually think webber didn’t have enough time to move over seb would have been in his blind spot until about a second before they crashed.

          • tom said on 31st May 2010, 6:37

            because they are competitors at the end of the day aren’t they?

  9. SeanG said on 30th May 2010, 15:02

    Without a doubt Vettel is a fast driver. He has not, however, demonstrated that he is, or can race. Today was the day for him to do so and he did the exact opposite.

  10. emil said on 30th May 2010, 15:04

    ahhh…another crazy German just like in china with hamilton just push every one out of the way…just crazy

  11. Ned Flanders said on 30th May 2010, 15:04

    It’ll be interesting to see how the team management respond. I reckon Mark Webber already feels Vettel is already the teams favourite, so being given shared blame for an accident that wasn’t really his fault is going to irritate him.

  12. Andyhdsn1 said on 30th May 2010, 15:04

    I think if it was anyone other than his team mate, webber was not in the wrong at all. The fact it was his team mate, means he probably should have left a bit more room, as the main objective when the race is that close is to beat the team just behind!

    • bosyber said on 30th May 2010, 15:30

      Yep, I agree. But I really am getting dissapointed in the ability of supposedly “relaxed, happy boy” Vettel to admit to making mistakes.

      Him waving his hands just after the incident to indicate Webber was crazy can just be frustration. After he came out of the trailer I think he realized he could have done things different, but still nog willing to say he had felt under pressure and admit he made a mistake.

      Webber seemed to be willing to not blame Vettel too much in the press conference. He knows Vetter is feeling the pressure and that he himself is now ahead of his teammate. He knew the team felt a lot for Vetter already. Be gracious when your on top, etc.

      • Dean Yamasaki said on 31st May 2010, 0:10

        I feel the same way. Mark’s experience and age have tempered any emotional reactions. So far.

        It’s funny how Vettel was the “relaxed, happy boy” when he was with Toro Rosso with few expectations of success, and was inconsolable when he foolishly rear ended Webber at Fuji in 2007. He took full blame, apologized to the team and Mark Webber and could be seeing crying in the paddock.

        All that changes with a bit of success, and these young drivers get a sense of self-entitlement and attitude.

        I remember liking Hamilton so much in his first races because he seemed just happy to be racing in F1, and how his attitude all changed when he began to clash with an equally large ego in Alonso. It degenerated into a tit for tat one-upsmanship.

        I even saw the same thing with the Kubica after his first F1 win, blaming the team when things went bad in subsequent races. His wry sense of humor gone when he tasted success.

        I guess this just shows the type of egos and self belief it takes to become the best at anything, and at the same time how insecure they are.

  13. I’ve said this ~10 times on the live blog, but Webber had the right to hold his racing line or move right as most or all of this incident was in the braking line. Vettel steered into his team mate in the braking zone, so unless he lost it it was his fault.
    Vettel has made error judgements before, and blamed them for his title loss last year, and he’s almost certainly done it again. A real shame.

    • Nick F said on 30th May 2010, 18:03

      My take is that both bear some blame. They were approaching the braking area, but had not yet reached it. The racing line where you brake is on the right side of the track, and they were both pretty much on the left side of the track. They both needed to move right to be on the rubbered in racing line so they could brake effectively, and also so they had a decent line to take the next corner. Webber was keeping Vettel as far to the left as he could which is his right to do, but they were approaching the corner and it was getting to the point where they both had to move right to avoid both of them totally messing up the next corner. Vettel before he moved right was half a car length ahead of Webber and I think this is a special distance which means you have very little sense of where the other car is. Anyone here that drives a road car on the motorway should know about blind spots, and I think the problem is greater in an F1 car.

      ..So my, admittedly uninformed verdict, is that there is a 60/40 split of the blame. I’d say Vettel shares 60% of the blame for moving too quickly right and not contemplating that Webber wouldn’t be able to react in time to get out the way. I’d also say that Webber shares 40% of the blame for keeping Vettel so far left so close to the breaking zone.

      I’d love though to see the track diagram with the racing line on, the braking point marked and the position of the 2 cars marked on. I think the crucial question is: how many seconds were they away from reaching the braking point when the accident happened?

      • Sean said on 30th May 2010, 19:15

        Good take – I agree though I’m inclined to say 60/40 in the other direction… It was clearly a shared blame incident and arguably just a racing incident, albeit an unforgiveable one for team mates to have.

        I’m in a minority, I guess. The 10:1 opinion seems to be, Seb drifted right, Mark didn’t move, ergo: Seb’s fault. Yes, but… The reference line everyone uses for this view is the white line that Seb was pinned to and had his wheels on, which he clearly moved away from. But the natural trajectory of the cars would indeed be back over to the right and you are correct, it’s also a function of where the diagonal-ish racing line from corner to corner is, and exactly where they were w.r.t. the braking zone, where they would clearly not be expected to be anywhere near the white line on the left.

        I think there were two ‘violations’ here, for want of a better word. The first was that Webber not only blocked, it’s that he blocked all the way to the white line, zero margin, against his own team mate (it’s one thing to do this to another driver, as he has done it a lot, and a quite different thing to push your team mate so hard), but then, having failed to get Vettel to lift with the block he kept Vettel pinned to the line and immediately prior to the collision actually squeezes even further left, in a classic case of what David Hobbs likes to call “closing the barn door after the horse has bolted”. At this point it is clear that Vettel has the run and at least has the inside line for the chicane.

        The second violation is that Vettel, having recovered from his little wobble caused by Webber’s second squeeze, drifts right, perhaps thinking he is already ahead but in fact leading to RR/LF contact. Webber starts to react and move right but it’s too late. This is clearly a mistake from Vettel as it’s a little too abrupt a move to be just the natural flow from left to right in preparation for the next corner.

        Conclusion: they were both in the wrong to some extent. But I’d say in the bigger picture it was a ridiculously robust block to put on your team mate after it was already clear he had the run and you’d lost the position…it would have been a good opportunity for Mark to do an ‘over and under’ move to retake the position in the chicane but it was already too late to be blocking on the left at that point, when he made the second squeeze. I’d be willing to call this simply poor judgement on Webber’s part if weren’t for the fact that he has done the same thing so often in the past. Based on that I conclude it was probably fully intentional, and he reaped what he had sowed when Vettel made his own error and misjudged his drift to the right.

        There’s a zeitgeist on how hard is too hard when it comes to defending, and it drifts back and forth over time. I recently watched the ’84 FOCA video and was shocked to see how upset Rosberg Sr. was with Mansell at Dallas, when the latter did some defensive blocking that was pretty mild by modern standards early in the race. Unfortunately we are now in the post-Schumacher era when there are cases like the block Barrichello put on Hamilton last year in Brazil, the one Kobayashi put on Nakajima and so on. Webber is of that era and I’d like to see the zeitgeist drift back a little to a point where drivers see the futility of continuing to block someone after the horse has bolted. In the wider view, Webber’s block + squeeze + pin move was a defensive move too far and one that was compounded by Vettel’s mistake.

      • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:28

        The problem with this view is that Vettel looked to overtake with the same space he had when he ran up alongside Webber as when he veered right into Webber.

        So the question then is, should Webber have moved over to give Vettel enough room to complete a pass when he’s only 0.5 car lengths ahead at most? Or should he presume that Vettel will yield since he didn’t have position to complete the pass?

        imo it’s not the responsibility of the driver in the LEAD to yield to make it easier for someone FOLLOWING to pass. So in this case it was the responsibility of Vettel to ensure he had the room to veer right to complete his pass.

        Thus it’s not a question of 60/40, 90/10 or any such silliness. It’s Vettel’s fault, and that means 100/0 for those that like to waffle.

        • Sean said on 31st May 2010, 3:32

          Er, the driver in the LEAD at the point of contact was called Sebastian. “Only 0.5 car lengths”…is quite a bit, actually, especially when you’re going 10kph quicker. You can do a lot in motor sports with half a car length.

          Actually I think Seb had even less room when he turned right than he’d had when he made the pass. That’s the point, really. It was clearly an error to move right when he did, to the extent that he did, but Webber was simply being a klutz by pinning him to the edge of the track like that. If it was Hamilton it would have been robust, to do it to his team mate, well.

          To see it as 100/0, well…no.

          A different way of looking at it is that nothing ‘wrong’ was done, in the strictest sense. This is a turf battle, logically RBR stands to run away with the season and therefore it’s starting to shape up like a Senna/ Prost case where they’re gonna run into each other a couple of times as a matter of logical necessity. F1 is designed to produce such conflicts from time to time and it’s the nature of racing. RBR will not see it that way this evening but RBR’s interests are not exactly the same as either Vettel’s or Webber’s. In this sense what happened was just dandy and it’s fine with me because it prevents or postpones a runaway domination from one team.

          • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 7:14

            Thing is, cars are often about half a car in front, but then they find them selves on the wrong side of the track and have to give up the overtake and try it where it is possible to get in front.

    • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 23:56

      Yeah James, the same way a pedestrian has the right of way on a Zebra Crossing. But you dont jump on it when you see a crazy driver approaching, do you? Cos’ though you are in the right, you have more to lose by not yielding.

      • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:30

        So everyone in F1 knows Vettle is a crazy boy and should yield when he’s anywhere near sniffing distance?

        Ok, that’s useful info for Vettel. Just throw yourself alongside anyone young man and they’ll no doubt yield because you are one crazy driver! Yeah, even Hamilton will yield to you!

  14. Both of them. Vettel had the line but was stupid to pull back over but Webber should have given him more room…

    Infact I’d say it was 60% Vettel 40% Webber.

    • Scribe said on 30th May 2010, 15:11

      agree’d, said that on the liveblog. Don’t want this to turn into a witch hunt against either driver. But still it was a bit of serious shoot-footery.

    • Horacio said on 30th May 2010, 15:14

      TommyB, could you please explain why Webber “should” give room to another car trying to overtake him?

      • Hare said on 30th May 2010, 15:29

        He was actually in front of him, and quite some way faster than him. He actually slowed up a little when he was in front of him, you can hear the revs dropping, but he thought he had the place.

        • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:39

          “I’m faster so please move over!!!” LOL.

          If Vettel was ahead of Webber then he wouldn’t have smashed his RR wheel against Webber’s sidepod. Otherwise he was merely BESIDE him, and expecting your teammate to yield enough room so you can get past is more than a bit daft.

          • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 7:16

            Vettel must have been convinced, that Mark had been instructed to let him pass. Only reason for not taking care about being on the wrong side of the track for the next corner. He “knew” that Mark would move over as he had been told to do.
            Boo for Red Bull.

      • Mark Hitchcock said on 30th May 2010, 15:30

        Because they’re team mates and don’t want to have stupid accidents like todays one.

        Without doubt Vettel is the man at fault. But Webber squeezed Vettel a little bit too much and made the chances of contact quite high.

        • Subaru_STi said on 30th May 2010, 16:31

          Webber gave Vettel more than enough room, these suggestions that Webber sqeezed Vettel are total trollop, if you look at Vettels on board video at 1:21 you can see he is less than 6 inches by the white line on the left, then at 1:23 they are still down the straight before they even reach the 100m board but Vettel is now well over a foot a away from the white line on the left at this point and he is even looking towards Webbers car, it suggests to me that he turned in on Webber out of aggression and frustation that Webber in his eyes was not giving enough room, HE DID IT ON PURPOSE, THE PRESSURE GOT TO HIM!! Conterversial but the facts speak for themselves.

          • Mac v2 said on 30th May 2010, 16:53

            Exactly,

            Well explained

          • yep, thats i how feel.

          • nik said on 30th May 2010, 17:34

            I just watched the video again. If you look at the front on shot of the cars side-by-side, you can see that Vettel has glanced his head to the side into his mirror, and can *see* that Webber is alongside him. At this point, he swings out across aggressively, hoping that Mark will move..

          • Wadey said on 31st May 2010, 7:02

            Not to mention that i love your nick name – the car is awesome – im COMPLETELY with you Subaru. There is no doubting it. I wish people would stop sugar coating it.

          • I agree Subaru Sti, I thought it was a deliberate move as well, although I was prepared to give Vettel the benefit of the doubt that he was just being clumsy. But it certainly looked deliberate to me & on that basis I was quite happy with the own goal he scored. Vettel has been beleiving his own publicity, methinks & hasnt’ realised that to rest on your laurels, you have to acheived them first.

            But very unhappy that he ruined Webber’s race, and even more unhappy still that RBR appear to be not only blaming Webber for the incident, but may even have contributed by telling Webber to turn the revs down the lap before. Reminds me of when Webber won Germany & all RBR could say was that Vettel should have won. But you could see even in Monaco the atmosphere between Webber & Vettel was pretty toxic. I am getting 2007 flashbacks.

        • Webber was slower and was going in a straight line… and if you watch the replay, Vettel had so much room on his left…

        • Bill said on 31st May 2010, 0:42

          You only squeeze someone when you give someone LESS room to maneuver. Webber didn’t encroach to the left, he just held his line. The fact the a left-hander was looming doesn’t mean Webber encroached, it means Vettel assumed too much and was far too optimistic.

          Seriously, do people watch the video attached to this post? I guess this post would be about how big a wimp Webber is if he had done what half the posters here suggest he should’ve done and yielded.

      • nik said on 30th May 2010, 16:10

        that sets a bad precedent of being able to dive in on your team mate knowing that he ‘has to’ move over ..

        Button and Hamilton showed Vettel how racing between team mates is supposed to happen

        • Randy said on 30th May 2010, 17:25

          Button and Hamilton only survived contact because they hit rim to rim instead of interlocking. That incident could easily have ended in tears as well. I liked the way they handled it after the race though, congratulating each other.

          • nik said on 30th May 2010, 17:35

            being alongside another car at the apex of a corner is a bit diff though, you can actually aim to bounce off the other guys rim. being side-by-side leading into a corner is very diff. they did handle it a lot better though, and Mark handled it very well compared to Seb

    • Actually I’ve commented above, but now have a high quality replay and I basically agree with TommyB. They weren’t in the braking zone when Vettel got ahead, and he was well ahead when he started to go right. Webber just stuck to the line, which could be against the rules (as he had been overtaken) and was particularly careful with his team mate. An interesting one.

      • John H said on 30th May 2010, 21:20

        This is crazy speak.

        Vettel should have just held the inside. Instead he moved over to the right being far too aggresive to a man that never ‘moves over.’

        Let alone the turning the engine down, Horner hugging Vettel stuff.

        1. Vettel cannot overtake.
        2. Webber has been badly let down.

    • Brake Bias said on 30th May 2010, 15:30

      Tommy B why? Vettel was not fully passed Webber when he moved into him. Vettels fault period

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 15:39

      The thing is though that Vettel didn’t give Webber any time to react. He just slammed to the right into Webber.

      90% Vettel’s fault. At least.

      • Scribe said on 30th May 2010, 15:53

        Looking at it on the slowed down F1 fourm this is 70 30 Vettle’s fault. An Christian Horner needs to see that clearly an handle both drivers well or he is in danger of loosing both of them. Both his drivers are marked men, Webber would be perfect for Ferrari, he gets on with Fernando, he’s clearly very fast, possibly Vettles match now his legs okay, as well as providing good acess to the small but affluent Australian market.

        Mercedes possibly set up their entire unit with one eye on Vettle, they want him to be their figure head poster boy like they where desperate for Schumacher an never got him till now.

        • 70-30? Are you mad? It was AT LEAST 73.2% Vettel’s fault. Perhaps even 74.8.

          Really we’re just splitting hairs. For me I don’t see how Webber was to blame, he was defending his position as he was entitled to and Vettel obviously misjudged how far he was ahead, attempting to take a line he didn’t yet have.

          A similar incident to, and almost as silly as Alguersuari chopping off Chandhok’s nose when lapping him in Spain.

          • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:47

            Yeah the only blame you could put on Webber is that he’s trying to force his team mate into a mistake.

            You could claim that if a teammate is so obviously past then the defending driver shouldn’t make his teammate’s life difficult.

            Still, they are both fighting for the championship.

          • Scribe said on 30th May 2010, 16:54

            “70-30? Are you mad? It was AT LEAST 73.2% Vettel’s fault. Perhaps even 74.8.”

            Well your certainly not splitting hairs, just trying to say this is significantly more Vettles fault than Webbers, sorry if my use of language bothers you.

            Regardless the point stands, this wasn’t good racing from Vettle, and Redbull has got to sort this out quick lest it esculate.

      • Bernie E said on 30th May 2010, 16:18

        Not much wrong with Webber’s reaction, but he just decided not to move to the right.
        Vettel was ahead, the next corner was a lefthander and Vettel was bound to go right since he couldn’t brake on the inside. Webber knew but kept his line. I am no Vettel fan, but imagine it being Button overtaking Schumacher. Who’s wrong or right?

        • BasCB said on 31st May 2010, 7:22

          The sensible reaction for a car on the outside before the corner would be to take a risk go as far as it goes and brake late, possibly not making the corner, but maybe making it stick.
          For the car being passed it is perfectly reasonable to defend by exactly staying on your line and fend off the move by having the next corner.

          Only these were team mates with Lewis right behind. A stupid move by Vettel, only if the team had ordered Mark to give up position (and risk being taken by Lewis as well) it would have worked.
          So Vettel might be at fault but the team made the blunder.

    • TommyC said on 31st May 2010, 6:08

      finally i have a chance to comment on this. and being a webber fan, i know it’s hard not to be biased but i will try my best.
      i’ve watched the replay several times, i’ve even watched in slo mo to work out the reactions of the drivers.
      firstly, the onboard with webber doesn’t show how much more room vettel had on the inside. this shot also shows webber turn to the right just before vettel hits him.
      i see no reason why webber should simply open the door, not that he made it that difficult anyway. i know it’s easy to say from here what vettel should have done but he’s the one who gets paid to race.
      webber was simply holding his line and it is vettel who swerves into him. i have no idea what’s going through vettel’s head to have not apologised by now and horner certainly hasn’t helped the situation.
      but you know the ironic thing? the points difference between webber and vettel at the end of the day is greater than it would have been had webber won and vettel second.
      now, bring on canada..

      • TommyC said on 31st May 2010, 6:13

        i’ll just clarify, when vettel is first making the move, he’s left wheels are on the white stripe on the outer edge of the track. as he starts to move infront, webber does actually move to the right. at this point there is plenty of room for vettel on the left but he continues right into webber.

  15. seansverige said on 30th May 2010, 15:05

    Like Seb but think one’s on him; and you could almost believe that the McLaren boys were given orders to show them how inter-team racing should be done…. ;P

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