Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Red Bull threw away a potential one-two finish in the Turkish Grand Prix after their drivers collided while leading.

Sebastian Vettel had pulled alongside team mate Mark Webber on the straight approaching turn 12 when the two made contact.

The collision put Vettel out on the spot. Mark Webber continued but had to pit to replace a damaged front wing and eventually finished third.

The pair were under pressure from Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren when they hit each other, and the accident let Hamilton by into the lead.

Vettel went down the inside of Webber as they blasted from turn 11 to turn 12. As Vettel drew past he moved towards Webber and the pair made contact. Vettel spun off with a burst tyre.

Afterwards Vettel said:

I was able to go quicker the two or three laps before. I had the corner on the left and was just trying to focus on braking point and all of a sudden I lost the car. You can see on the television we made contact.

I’m not kind of guy that pushes all the fault to one guy we are a team.
Sebastian Vettel

Webber explained what happened in the press conference:

Seb had big top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side for a while.

The he turned pretty quick right and we made contact. It happened very, very fast. It’s a shame for the team, it’s obviously not an ideal day.

There was long way to go in race, it wasn’t a guaranteed victory. But but it was an interesting few metres and in the end it wasn’t the result either of us want.
Mark Webber

Team boss Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” by the collision, adding “we handed 43 points to McLaren on a plate.”

Afterwards Lewis Hamilton said Vettel’s move on Webber was the same as one Vettel made on him when he tried to pass Vettel at the same place earlier in the race.

Who do you blame for the Red Bull collision?

  • Sebastian Vettel (75%)
  • Mark Webber (8%)
  • Both of them (14%)
  • Neither (3%)

Total Voters: 4,338

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416 comments on Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

  1. claudioff said on 30th May 2010, 15:20

    I think I am speaking for all that are not Hamilton/Mc fans, and like me was watching the race and thinking: “At least I got the 4 first positions in terms of prediction championship”.
    Vettel you have just got a enemy ;)

    • Mike said on 30th May 2010, 16:24

      Yeah! I had 4 of 5 perfect! Web, Vet, Ham and Schu! now I have !!! not much again………

      Speaking objectively, I’d say that this was or designed by Mosley and Todt with Bernie’s backing to force Seb into the crash because secretly Mosley is trying to win the ticket to Silverstone but is in fear of my skillz………. now speaking as a lunatic…

  2. Byron R said on 30th May 2010, 15:21

    Hopefully vettel will suffer race stewards wrath at the next event. Definitely his fault, in replay webber turned right to avoid contact, but it was too late. Vettel you’re a dumb****.

  3. Atticus said on 30th May 2010, 15:26

    Lol I’m surprised most of you think that it’s Vettel who was at fault. I think the visitors of this site have a quite in-depth understanding of the sport that’s why I feel so.

    Look it was Vettel who was ahead he was the one who dictates the tempo and he had the right to go where he wants on the track.

    You know the unwritten rule of F1 at least since the Schumi-Villeneuve affair in 1997:

    ” The one who is at front has the advantage. “

    • Webber could of, but never had to or was obliged to in anyway, give more room…
      Vettel had to hold his line but didn’t and tried to move right to have better line into the corner…shame there was a car right beside him LOL

      Vettel 200% at fault regardless.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:09

      Even if that was true, Webber didn’t even get time to move out of the way. Vettel simply moved too fast to the right

    • smith said on 30th May 2010, 16:49

      What the hell are you taling about?! Webber was on the racing line – end of story. Vettel jinked right too fast and caused the crash – Vettel messed up.

    • Brake Bias said on 30th May 2010, 16:50

      What part of Vettel was beside Webber when Vettel moved into him did you not see? To say Vettel was passed him is a little incorrect as he was not fully passed when he moved over hence wheel to wheel contact.

      Vettels move was more akin to Australian V8’s rather than F1.

  4. sato113 said on 30th May 2010, 15:27

    we must remember they weren’t just racing for the race but also for the championship!

  5. steph said on 30th May 2010, 15:28

    I’ve already said I think it was mostly Vettel’s fault. I wonder ewhat the rules are with racing at red Bull – are they allowed to race? If one makes a move do they have to immediately let them by? Do they stay in order? I’d assume it was a nice compromise of race and not be silly but I do wonder how these two are being managed.

    I have to agree with Patrickl above about Vettel’s reactions too.

    This wasn’t the first time today Vettel’s pulled right. When lewis tried to overtake him he tried to scare hjim off and then Lewis outbraked himself I think when he got distracted by that. I think either Vettel seriously misjudged how far ahead he was or he tried to make Mark back off or give him more room. Maybe Mark should have gave him more room but this is racing and I’d love to know what RBR’s policy was before and after this incident.

    • HounslowBusGarage said on 30th May 2010, 15:34

      Apart from the actual incident, I was rather disappointed with Vettel’s waving his finger around at the side of his head, apparently blaming Webber for being ‘crazy’. Or have I read that incorrectly; was he indicating to the world that he (Vettel) had just done something very stupid?

      • steph said on 30th May 2010, 16:10

        I read it as Vettel implying Webber was crazy which was a disappointment too

        • Carl said on 30th May 2010, 16:41

          I read it as ‘ooo I’m a silly boy’ so only SV could tell us what he really meant by it.

          • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:49

            Look at Vettel’s angry face in his interview. It was pretty clear that he blamed Webber for the incident.

    • nik said on 30th May 2010, 16:37

      Webber qualified half a second faster than Seb. Webber was leading and Seb was third until the team and a mistake during Hamilton’s stop got him into second. If I was team principal, the rules at that point between the team mates would be that unless Mark has a problem, or you are so clearly faster than him over the course of a few laps and have a clear overtaking opportunity, that you don’t overtake. Mark did more than enough work this weekend to take the win, and it was ruined by Seb sticking his nose in because he somehow felt entitled to take the position.

      • Scribe said on 30th May 2010, 18:06

        I don’t think Webber has got the more advantageous pit stop once this season.

        Vettle was clearly furious when he made the crazy sign, i’m not going to judge him on that.

        An Vettle isn’t usually this agressive, preassure is telling, it’s good to see though. All the same this was his fault an the points lost today are on his head.

        • Hare said on 31st May 2010, 3:44

          All in All, I’m glad Webber got the points haul over Vettel. This Austrian-German favouritism rumour has the potential to ruin good racing.

          Who want’s to remember Schumacher and Barrichello.

          I want them to race, and if they crash so be it. Webber should fight for his right to the World Championship, there’s no way, as a fan, I would be happy with in house favouritism because of national background, or expense at training the boy star up.

          In this area, I respect and enjoy McLaren’s approach, even though it’s lost them World Championships in the past.

  6. Sam said on 30th May 2010, 15:30

    Yeah except vettel turned towards mark when he hadnt even gotten all the way past him yet.

  7. taurus said on 30th May 2010, 15:33

    Clearly Vettel’s fault. Wasn’t far enough in front before he cut across. How anyone could blame Webber is beyond me – he was under no obligation whatsoever to move out of Vettel’s way.

  8. Monaco73 said on 30th May 2010, 15:34

    @Dragon – Horner’s comments were on the BBC feed after the press conference. Horner needs to manage his comments better – welcome to the big league of driver, ego and team management. Webber could well carry the team to their first WDC, not Vettel as previously thought at the start of the season.

  9. VitaRedux said on 30th May 2010, 15:35

    Vettel’s fault from what I saw. He raced past Webber but knew he didn’t have a good line to take the corner. Tried a shimmy at Webber to push him offline. Webber wasn’t having any of it and then either Vettel lost control or maybe tried a second shimmy that went wrong.
    Webber ought to be able to drive in a straight line without having that happen to him. Come the corner he would have had a harder time; wouldn’t have been able to turn in on Vettel who was ahead but it never got that far.

  10. RSWF1 said on 30th May 2010, 15:40

    Well Vettel is definately keeping the Mini Shumey nickname… he turned to the right and everything well done old boy, now just leave it out until the last race when it might mean something. Would love to be a fly on the wall for the Webber Vs Vettel meeting afterwards…

  11. Magnificent Geoffrey said on 30th May 2010, 15:41

    You just know that we’ll be looking back at this incident as a key turning point in the championship come November.

  12. Prisoner Monkeys said on 30th May 2010, 15:43

    I also disagree with the notion that Vettel is solely to blame for the incident with Webber. It’s easy to get complacent about it all because we can see the front wing during on-board shots, but the drivers can’t. Nor can he rightly turn his head ninety degrees to see what’s either side of him; HANS prevents it and even if it were manageable, the monocoque obscures your vision. And even if you could do all of that, add in the fact that Vettel and Webber were side-by-side at the fastest point on the circuit and entering the best overtaking point, and you can see how it could be construed as a racing incident. So I agree with Eddie Jordan on two counts: 1) what was Vettel supposed to so, stay behind Webber all race? and 2) it was Vettel’s error, but that doesn’t make it Vettel’s fault.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:12

      You seriously think he didn’s see or know that Webber was rigth next to him?

      That would be even worse than that I assumed that he was just an arrogant kid who feels that anybody should move out of his way. It would mean that he’s incompetent to race at this level. I don’t think that can be true.

    • steph said on 30th May 2010, 16:22

      Visibility is a good point but he knew going by Webber that they were close so any movement to the right could have ended in tears plus he may not have been able to see the front wing but he still has mirrors so would have had some idea how close Web was

  13. Jhonnie Siggie said on 30th May 2010, 15:44

    Perfect for Hamilton. He needed some good fortune to remain calm. Now that he has tasted victory, hopefully we will see lots of sensible stuff.

  14. Sri said on 30th May 2010, 15:49

    @ seansverige

    Well, they were given team orders, but perhaps it was one where you saw Button not trying again to overtake Lewis. Did you see the emptiness in Lewis in post race press conference? He knew that Button in an equal machinery had the better of him. Button probably backed out, with or without orders, knowing fully well that the point was made. This chap ladies and gentleman, is going to win more championships for sure. Anyone who thinks Button lucked into the championship should just promptly shut up. Today what you saw was one team-mate showing the other how to get the job done.

    So what is next for Lewis. Lewis has on more than one occassion pointed the finger at the team for his failings. Today, he lost a bit of faith in McLaren and i saw it writ large on his face in post race press conference. What Lewis will now do, is perhaps talk to other teams, which will most likely be Ferrari/ RBR. RBR’s seemingly wanting to get rid of Webber, i wonder why, but… Ferrari haven’t signed up Massa back, so there’s an opening too. However, i believe this will not be in the best interests of Lewis. Only time will tell how this will work out to be. For now, he needs to not let negative thoughts creep into his mind and keep his head down and work hard at his race-craft.

    Vettel lost significant face in my books(i know it doesn’t mean much) but he also did in the books of media who saw him publicly criticizing his team mate for what was but a racing incident. This racing incident was completely avoidable as the one who is overtaking is aware that there are risks involved and that the leading car may shut the door on you. The abovementioned is precisely what Webber did and well, Vettel got sucked into his own move, taking down his team-mate as well. Horner, he should promptly be fired for his ineptness, or atleast be given a dressing down with a boot firmly shoved up deep.

    Oh, i know that you’ll want to flame me for all that i’ve said. But take a moment, think about what has been said here and on TV by Alex Yoong, an ex F1 driver, who knows this better than most of us here. Then my friends, feel free to pass a judgement.

    • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:02

      Absolute nonsense about Button and Hamilton. If you were watching the race, it would have been clear to you that Lewis was told to conserve fuel, and that “both cars are the same”, so he started cruising.
      This is understood to mean that the cars hold station because they are both in fuel saving mode, so no overtaking. Martin Brundle confirmed this at the time. Lewis was shocked to see Button overtaking him. During post race interviews, he called it “unexpected”.
      After the race, before the podium ceremony, they had a quick chat abt it before the cameras focused on them. It seems that Jenson was told something else. That “empty” look was about why was he told both cars were holding station, when Button was still racing. Incidentally, Button also had to conserve fuel. He wasnt happy today, despite winning his 1st GP of the season. Everyone could see that.
      I think there will be a lot of discussions at McLaren. He got the place back and we can assume he pulled out a gap, just as you assume Jenson backed out. Everyone knows that Jenson cant beat Lewis on race pace in equal machinery.
      Once a driver feels there may be a conspiracy against him in the team, its usually a downward spiral from there. I predict this will be Lewis’s last year at McLaren. 2012 at the most. I also predisct he will be going to RBR.

      • Sri said on 30th May 2010, 16:26

        Wow, you called it all “absolute nonsense”, but agreed with most of what i said :)

        Lewis has been the goden boy at McLaren since his debut in 2007 and most folks in the paddock believe that, so what you and i think doesn’t really matter enough to change facts. Lewis has been out of place in criticizing his team on several occassions, perhaps he could use to be a bit more level headed in his approach. He’ll not get the same treatment that he does at McLaren anywhere else in the paddock, or have the same level of machinery available to him if he is treated any better. In retrospect, if he decides to leave Macca, he’ll be kicking his own derriere is my observation.

        Fuel load in Lewis’s car is not the same as fuel load in Button’s car. They could be running different fuel mixes, and do you have the telemetry to prove otherwise? Nor do i to prove my point mate, but we’re all speculating on basis of facts available. You did see Whitmarsh hurriedly making a radio contact on the screen right after their scuffle… must have been to the cars… asking them to not “race” and finish in “existing order.”

        Lewis is often called and told to preserve tyres and no, not all the times they want him to hold station at front, but actually look after the car. He’s a lot more demanding on the hardware available to him than Button or any of his earlier team mates. Personally, in the current context with the applicable rules this year, if one preserves his machinery, he theoretically stands to make a bid towards the end of the race. Button had the advantage and pressed it home, when Hamilton resisted. He needed it more and Button saw it, backing off to come home to a safe second, and a 2nd in the championship standings.

        • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:51

          Err, there is no speculation here. Button was also told to conserve fuel, and the radio transmission clearly said – “both cars are the same”. This was understood to mean “hold station”.
          Pls read my post carefully again, as i cannot see anywhere i agree with you. I just stated my opinion. Remember, i only disagreed regarding your Ham/Button analysis.
          I dont agree with you on the reason Lewis is unhappy, I dont agree with you that Jensen’s race pace is better in equal machinery, I dont agree with you on the reason Jenson caught Lewis and overtook him, I certainly dont agree that Button “backed” off. I dont even agree that they were told not to race anymore.

          • Sri said on 30th May 2010, 17:00

            Wow! Do you work for McLaren/ FIA? I believe not. Did Button told you that he did what he did, in the knowledge that team wanted him to hold station? He did not! Then it is speculating. What we are doing is speculating and expressing opinions.

            Lewis has his motives to say what he said, and so does Button. I’m not taking anyone’s word over another. My conclusion/ analysis is for me to rest on facts that are available and not what i feel or anybody else feels. My analysis of a situation is just that. An expression of an event from the viewpoint of me. Well and truly great if we do agree, but i’ll certainly not go to the extent of calling yours “nonsense”, as you did mine :)

          • Jhonnie Siggie said on 30th May 2010, 18:26

            @Sri… You are obviously a Button fan so just say you want your man to win. The ambiguity of the Mclaren pit wall instructions complicated things so we won’t know for sure if Jenson would have had the shot he had if they were simply instructed to go flat out.

            I agree with kbdavies that it is premature to claim that Button is better than Hamilton in an equal car. What we know is that Button is a very smart driver with a knack for picking the best probability during uncertain times. Hamilton on the other hand is probably the most “naturally talented” racer out there in the opinion of Ross Brawn. They both have different strengths so why don’t we wait till the end of the season and form an opinion then about who seems to be better. HAM has successfully overtaken his teammate 2 or 3 times this year whereas BUT has not successfully done so yet. BUT must be getting desperate to pull one off IMHO.

    • Oliver said on 30th May 2010, 16:11

      Hamilton was told to conserve fuel and button would do the same, if you are not enlightened, that means both cars should hold station till the end, so Hamilton wasn’t expecting Button to try and steal one from him.

      Hamilton’s demenour after the race might indicate he feeling that Mclaren was trying to get Button ahead of him, since he, Hamilton, had been asked to conserve fuel, and Button, apparently wasn’t told to do same. We only heard Button being told to conserve fuel, after he had made a run at Hamilton.

      • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:16

        Abosultely. Not only was he told to save fuel, he was also told “Both cars are the same”. If this is not code for “Hold positions, no overtaking”, can anyone please shed some light on what it means?

    • Simon said on 30th May 2010, 19:49

      If you watched the BBC F1 forum after the race, Hamilton made it pretty clear that he was “surprised” Button attempted a pass at that point. That’s not the language an F1 driver would use (especially Hamilton) unless he expected a processional finish. The big giveaway was the replay showing the difference in straight-line speeds on the straight just before Button passed him.

      As to why Hamilton was subdued, we can only speculate, but I’d imagine it was a combination of (a) feeling he’d lucked into / inherited the win from the Red Bulls and (b) slightly annoyed that Button made a move after the “conserve fuel” order from the team.

      A great scrap between the pair of them though (particularly thte re-pass by Hamilton). Hope we see much more of it!

  15. adam b said on 30th May 2010, 15:57

    vettel is the worst driver on the grid glad he wiped himself out plus hamilton would have caught webber near the end

    • W154 said on 30th May 2010, 16:05

      How would he have caught him if he had to turn down his fuel use? MW was lapping 2 sec a lap quicker at the end than your little mate.

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