Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Red Bull threw away a potential one-two finish in the Turkish Grand Prix after their drivers collided while leading.

Sebastian Vettel had pulled alongside team mate Mark Webber on the straight approaching turn 12 when the two made contact.

The collision put Vettel out on the spot. Mark Webber continued but had to pit to replace a damaged front wing and eventually finished third.

The pair were under pressure from Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren when they hit each other, and the accident let Hamilton by into the lead.

Vettel went down the inside of Webber as they blasted from turn 11 to turn 12. As Vettel drew past he moved towards Webber and the pair made contact. Vettel spun off with a burst tyre.

Afterwards Vettel said:

I was able to go quicker the two or three laps before. I had the corner on the left and was just trying to focus on braking point and all of a sudden I lost the car. You can see on the television we made contact.

I’m not kind of guy that pushes all the fault to one guy we are a team.
Sebastian Vettel

Webber explained what happened in the press conference:

Seb had big top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side for a while.

The he turned pretty quick right and we made contact. It happened very, very fast. It’s a shame for the team, it’s obviously not an ideal day.

There was long way to go in race, it wasn’t a guaranteed victory. But but it was an interesting few metres and in the end it wasn’t the result either of us want.
Mark Webber

Team boss Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” by the collision, adding “we handed 43 points to McLaren on a plate.”

Afterwards Lewis Hamilton said Vettel’s move on Webber was the same as one Vettel made on him when he tried to pass Vettel at the same place earlier in the race.

Who do you blame for the Red Bull collision?

  • Sebastian Vettel (75%)
  • Mark Webber (8%)
  • Both of them (14%)
  • Neither (3%)

Total Voters: 4,338

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416 comments on Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

  1. Magnificent Geoffrey said on 30th May 2010, 15:41

    You just know that we’ll be looking back at this incident as a key turning point in the championship come November.

  2. Prisoner Monkeys said on 30th May 2010, 15:43

    I also disagree with the notion that Vettel is solely to blame for the incident with Webber. It’s easy to get complacent about it all because we can see the front wing during on-board shots, but the drivers can’t. Nor can he rightly turn his head ninety degrees to see what’s either side of him; HANS prevents it and even if it were manageable, the monocoque obscures your vision. And even if you could do all of that, add in the fact that Vettel and Webber were side-by-side at the fastest point on the circuit and entering the best overtaking point, and you can see how it could be construed as a racing incident. So I agree with Eddie Jordan on two counts: 1) what was Vettel supposed to so, stay behind Webber all race? and 2) it was Vettel’s error, but that doesn’t make it Vettel’s fault.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:12

      You seriously think he didn’s see or know that Webber was rigth next to him?

      That would be even worse than that I assumed that he was just an arrogant kid who feels that anybody should move out of his way. It would mean that he’s incompetent to race at this level. I don’t think that can be true.

    • steph said on 30th May 2010, 16:22

      Visibility is a good point but he knew going by Webber that they were close so any movement to the right could have ended in tears plus he may not have been able to see the front wing but he still has mirrors so would have had some idea how close Web was

  3. Jhonnie Siggie said on 30th May 2010, 15:44

    Perfect for Hamilton. He needed some good fortune to remain calm. Now that he has tasted victory, hopefully we will see lots of sensible stuff.

  4. Sri said on 30th May 2010, 15:49

    @ seansverige

    Well, they were given team orders, but perhaps it was one where you saw Button not trying again to overtake Lewis. Did you see the emptiness in Lewis in post race press conference? He knew that Button in an equal machinery had the better of him. Button probably backed out, with or without orders, knowing fully well that the point was made. This chap ladies and gentleman, is going to win more championships for sure. Anyone who thinks Button lucked into the championship should just promptly shut up. Today what you saw was one team-mate showing the other how to get the job done.

    So what is next for Lewis. Lewis has on more than one occassion pointed the finger at the team for his failings. Today, he lost a bit of faith in McLaren and i saw it writ large on his face in post race press conference. What Lewis will now do, is perhaps talk to other teams, which will most likely be Ferrari/ RBR. RBR’s seemingly wanting to get rid of Webber, i wonder why, but… Ferrari haven’t signed up Massa back, so there’s an opening too. However, i believe this will not be in the best interests of Lewis. Only time will tell how this will work out to be. For now, he needs to not let negative thoughts creep into his mind and keep his head down and work hard at his race-craft.

    Vettel lost significant face in my books(i know it doesn’t mean much) but he also did in the books of media who saw him publicly criticizing his team mate for what was but a racing incident. This racing incident was completely avoidable as the one who is overtaking is aware that there are risks involved and that the leading car may shut the door on you. The abovementioned is precisely what Webber did and well, Vettel got sucked into his own move, taking down his team-mate as well. Horner, he should promptly be fired for his ineptness, or atleast be given a dressing down with a boot firmly shoved up deep.

    Oh, i know that you’ll want to flame me for all that i’ve said. But take a moment, think about what has been said here and on TV by Alex Yoong, an ex F1 driver, who knows this better than most of us here. Then my friends, feel free to pass a judgement.

    • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:02

      Absolute nonsense about Button and Hamilton. If you were watching the race, it would have been clear to you that Lewis was told to conserve fuel, and that “both cars are the same”, so he started cruising.
      This is understood to mean that the cars hold station because they are both in fuel saving mode, so no overtaking. Martin Brundle confirmed this at the time. Lewis was shocked to see Button overtaking him. During post race interviews, he called it “unexpected”.
      After the race, before the podium ceremony, they had a quick chat abt it before the cameras focused on them. It seems that Jenson was told something else. That “empty” look was about why was he told both cars were holding station, when Button was still racing. Incidentally, Button also had to conserve fuel. He wasnt happy today, despite winning his 1st GP of the season. Everyone could see that.
      I think there will be a lot of discussions at McLaren. He got the place back and we can assume he pulled out a gap, just as you assume Jenson backed out. Everyone knows that Jenson cant beat Lewis on race pace in equal machinery.
      Once a driver feels there may be a conspiracy against him in the team, its usually a downward spiral from there. I predict this will be Lewis’s last year at McLaren. 2012 at the most. I also predisct he will be going to RBR.

      • Sri said on 30th May 2010, 16:26

        Wow, you called it all “absolute nonsense”, but agreed with most of what i said :)

        Lewis has been the goden boy at McLaren since his debut in 2007 and most folks in the paddock believe that, so what you and i think doesn’t really matter enough to change facts. Lewis has been out of place in criticizing his team on several occassions, perhaps he could use to be a bit more level headed in his approach. He’ll not get the same treatment that he does at McLaren anywhere else in the paddock, or have the same level of machinery available to him if he is treated any better. In retrospect, if he decides to leave Macca, he’ll be kicking his own derriere is my observation.

        Fuel load in Lewis’s car is not the same as fuel load in Button’s car. They could be running different fuel mixes, and do you have the telemetry to prove otherwise? Nor do i to prove my point mate, but we’re all speculating on basis of facts available. You did see Whitmarsh hurriedly making a radio contact on the screen right after their scuffle… must have been to the cars… asking them to not “race” and finish in “existing order.”

        Lewis is often called and told to preserve tyres and no, not all the times they want him to hold station at front, but actually look after the car. He’s a lot more demanding on the hardware available to him than Button or any of his earlier team mates. Personally, in the current context with the applicable rules this year, if one preserves his machinery, he theoretically stands to make a bid towards the end of the race. Button had the advantage and pressed it home, when Hamilton resisted. He needed it more and Button saw it, backing off to come home to a safe second, and a 2nd in the championship standings.

        • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:51

          Err, there is no speculation here. Button was also told to conserve fuel, and the radio transmission clearly said – “both cars are the same”. This was understood to mean “hold station”.
          Pls read my post carefully again, as i cannot see anywhere i agree with you. I just stated my opinion. Remember, i only disagreed regarding your Ham/Button analysis.
          I dont agree with you on the reason Lewis is unhappy, I dont agree with you that Jensen’s race pace is better in equal machinery, I dont agree with you on the reason Jenson caught Lewis and overtook him, I certainly dont agree that Button “backed” off. I dont even agree that they were told not to race anymore.

          • Sri said on 30th May 2010, 17:00

            Wow! Do you work for McLaren/ FIA? I believe not. Did Button told you that he did what he did, in the knowledge that team wanted him to hold station? He did not! Then it is speculating. What we are doing is speculating and expressing opinions.

            Lewis has his motives to say what he said, and so does Button. I’m not taking anyone’s word over another. My conclusion/ analysis is for me to rest on facts that are available and not what i feel or anybody else feels. My analysis of a situation is just that. An expression of an event from the viewpoint of me. Well and truly great if we do agree, but i’ll certainly not go to the extent of calling yours “nonsense”, as you did mine :)

          • Jhonnie Siggie said on 30th May 2010, 18:26

            @Sri… You are obviously a Button fan so just say you want your man to win. The ambiguity of the Mclaren pit wall instructions complicated things so we won’t know for sure if Jenson would have had the shot he had if they were simply instructed to go flat out.

            I agree with kbdavies that it is premature to claim that Button is better than Hamilton in an equal car. What we know is that Button is a very smart driver with a knack for picking the best probability during uncertain times. Hamilton on the other hand is probably the most “naturally talented” racer out there in the opinion of Ross Brawn. They both have different strengths so why don’t we wait till the end of the season and form an opinion then about who seems to be better. HAM has successfully overtaken his teammate 2 or 3 times this year whereas BUT has not successfully done so yet. BUT must be getting desperate to pull one off IMHO.

    • Oliver said on 30th May 2010, 16:11

      Hamilton was told to conserve fuel and button would do the same, if you are not enlightened, that means both cars should hold station till the end, so Hamilton wasn’t expecting Button to try and steal one from him.

      Hamilton’s demenour after the race might indicate he feeling that Mclaren was trying to get Button ahead of him, since he, Hamilton, had been asked to conserve fuel, and Button, apparently wasn’t told to do same. We only heard Button being told to conserve fuel, after he had made a run at Hamilton.

      • kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:16

        Abosultely. Not only was he told to save fuel, he was also told “Both cars are the same”. If this is not code for “Hold positions, no overtaking”, can anyone please shed some light on what it means?

    • Simon said on 30th May 2010, 19:49

      If you watched the BBC F1 forum after the race, Hamilton made it pretty clear that he was “surprised” Button attempted a pass at that point. That’s not the language an F1 driver would use (especially Hamilton) unless he expected a processional finish. The big giveaway was the replay showing the difference in straight-line speeds on the straight just before Button passed him.

      As to why Hamilton was subdued, we can only speculate, but I’d imagine it was a combination of (a) feeling he’d lucked into / inherited the win from the Red Bulls and (b) slightly annoyed that Button made a move after the “conserve fuel” order from the team.

      A great scrap between the pair of them though (particularly thte re-pass by Hamilton). Hope we see much more of it!

  5. adam b said on 30th May 2010, 15:57

    vettel is the worst driver on the grid glad he wiped himself out plus hamilton would have caught webber near the end

    • W154 said on 30th May 2010, 16:05

      How would he have caught him if he had to turn down his fuel use? MW was lapping 2 sec a lap quicker at the end than your little mate.

  6. Oliver said on 30th May 2010, 15:58

    Webber didn’t do much wrong, he simply held his line. Vettel might still have completed the job even if he had run deep into the corner.

  7. Softwarrior said on 30th May 2010, 16:00

    Looked like Vettel was muscling in trying to scare Webber off.Webber held his line and was hit because of Vettel’s misjudged aggressive driving.Vettel was not past Webber.

  8. PlushPile said on 30th May 2010, 16:00

    Vettel has proven again today that he’s quick, but he can’t overtake.
    Completely his fault, robbed Webber of a victory and cost his team 28 points in the WCC

    complete fail!

  9. W154 said on 30th May 2010, 16:01

    Hey Seb. When you wake up tomorrow morning do the world a favour and don’t leave your brains on the pillow like you did today. Then go and watch a replay of the race especially the bit where LH and JB dice with each other . Thats how TEAMMATES race. As for your comment that you are part of a team, the only team you care about is you and Horner.

  10. Adaniel said on 30th May 2010, 16:02

    Webber should have given Vettel more room. How was Seb supposed to make the next corner at the speed he was going and the line he was on, without Webber moving over.

    Look I am sure Seb would have just opened the door and let Mark pass if it had been the other way round, but then Mark may just have thought, if he was in second and Seb was in front, that that was a good finish for the team.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:16

      Well that’s exactly why Webber SHOULDN’t give Vettel more room. This way he could force Vettel into an error.

      • well, he forced him into an error. I hope he’s proud of it.

        I love the guys saying that if you have to overtake your teammate, make it clean, however fail to see than once Vettel overtook Webber, maybe he was the one which should have made it clean.

        • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:51

          Well, Hamilton and Button were side by side too. Hamilton didn’t make the corner first time either and the next time Button didn;t make the corner. That’s how you overtake or defend from being overtaken.

          I’ll agree that Webber shouldn’t have moved so much on the straight. He nearly caused an accident by his weaving.

          The actual crash that resulted is 100% Vettel’s driving error.

    • How was Seb supposed to make the next corner at the speed he was going and the line he was on, without Webber moving over.

      That’s Vettel’s problem, not Webber’s. If he couldn’t make the move without running off the road at the next corner, he shouldn’t have made the move.

      Webber wasn’t defending unduly erratically or aggressively. He left a car’s width for Vettel to get by, which is more generous than is strictly necessary, but Vettel wanted even more space than that.

    • nik said on 30th May 2010, 17:14

      Webber should have pulled over, pulled out his lunchbox, ate a sandwich, had a drink and then cheered Vettel on from the sidelines as the next big thing(tm) in F1 who deserves to take his entitled place at the top of the championship.

      • Salty said on 30th May 2010, 17:48

        Sandwiches? Stone the bleedin’ crows mate. Throw a few chucks on the barby and crack a tinny ;o)

      • Paper Tiger said on 30th May 2010, 21:12

        It´s certainly going to feel like that tomorrow when Horner makes WEBBER apologise for causing the accident that took out poor Seb.

    • Salty said on 30th May 2010, 17:46

      You are being ironic arn’t you?

      Every driver fears being beaten by his teammate more than any other. Should teamies just move aside to let each other through? Absolutely not.

      Seb decided to try the tight inside line into that corner – always going to fail as you just get driven round in the corner from the more sweeping outside line. It would have been folly to try the move on a rival team, but to try that on your teammate, and then try and force them wide, is frankly stupid.

  11. Bint said on 30th May 2010, 16:05

    It’s racing for heavens sake. Accidents happen. Hamilton and Button managed to pass each other without incident – Vettel obviously thought he had passed Webber. The comments so far seem to suggest that Vettel did it on purpose!!!! These drivers are racers and they take risks (which incidentally make good viewing for us). Maybe we should go back to Bahrain where very little overtaking was done and everyone complained at how boring and procession-like it was!

  12. MouseNightshirt said on 30th May 2010, 16:09

    Some interesting conspiracy theories coming up on the F1 Forum.

    There’s some suggestion Webber was told to turn his engine down but Vettel was not asked to do the same. Ted is digging some more now.

    • MouseNightshirt said on 30th May 2010, 16:12

      Latest news: Horner is now backing Seb.

      This is getting intriguing…

      • nelly said on 30th May 2010, 16:26

        it is indeed getting intriguing, probably end up being nothing but it does seem strange!

      • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:54

        Well that’s hardly a surprise. He always stated in public that the whole team revolves about their golden boy.

        No matter that Webber is again ahead of him in the championship standings.

        Vettel might be slightly faster than Webber, but Vettel still makes too many mistakes.

  13. kbdavies said on 30th May 2010, 16:11

    Never mind Vet/Web, the Ham/Butt issue is more interesting. Hamilton was told “both cars are the same” when told to conserve fuel. All, inc Hamilton, and even Martin Brundle thought it meant no further racing btw both cars. Hamilton started cruising, and was shocked to see Button overtaking him, calling it “unexpected”.

    He fought for the place back, but both were very lucky to stay in the race. In fact, they banged wheels and front wings, with Ham pushing Button onto the runoff.
    You could see Lewis was very unhappy for a driver who had won his first GP in the season, he was muted when he got out of the car – no hugging or shaking any mechanics, and was even more unhappy on the podium and press conf.
    When discussing with Button before both went on the podium, Button seems to suggest he was told something different.

    Lewis is now wondering why he was told to hold station, whilst Button was still racing. If this is not cleared up, he will begin to feel paranoid in the team, and its a downward slope from there on. I suspect the damage has already been done. I see this as Lewis’s last year at McLaren, maybe 2011. I predict he will be off to Red Bull.

    • No, I don’t think it is as serious as that. Button simply misunderstood that “save fuel” is McLaren-speak for “hold station.” Maybe he’s not got the latest edition of the McLaren-to-English dictionary.

      I’m sure all this will be sorted out behind closed doors and the incident will be written off as a misunderstanding. If Jenson tries something similar again, however….

      • Jhonnie Siggie said on 30th May 2010, 18:35

        Well said.. Mclaren will sort this out behind closed doors and both drivers will come to realize that it was the ambiguity of the pit wall that created the confusion. Very premature to say that this will make Lewis bail in 2011.

      • DaveW said on 30th May 2010, 20:02

        The key point here is that Martin has no control over these two. The save fuel gambit was blown when Button decided he was going to save fuel later, when he felt like it. And Hamilton wasted no time showing Button to the runoff area for his trouble. Was that the racing of a team bearing down on a 1-2 finish, 40 seconds up on third place, with a critical fuel situation? Total insanity. Who can imagine this scenario between Mika and David. This was very telling. Control over that team is now up for grabs between Hamilton and Button and this is going to get interesting.

    • W-K said on 30th May 2010, 16:50

      Further on at the forum Button said he had been on save fuel mode since lap 20. If so and as we saw Button was keeping up, then he was the faster of the two McLaren’s. So maybe Hamilton realised he was gifted the race for two reasons.

      • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:54

        Hamilton was talking about a target time that he was given. If Hamilton is sticking to driving this target time and Button uses this to overtake Hamilton …

      • DaveW said on 30th May 2010, 20:04

        The fact Hamilton was being held up by two RBRs may have had something to do with his “keeping up.”

  14. FLIG said on 30th May 2010, 16:12

    I love this. I dislike him, but this time, hats off, Mr. Webber. The germans at Red Bull really want to have the little german champion holding the trophies – I bet they didn’t count on the old australian dude to use the machine better and just simply race his way to the top of the WDC. Go Webber!

  15. adam b said on 30th May 2010, 16:14

    hamilton will be at mclaren for life i think ron dennis favoured him more thow

  16. Horacio said on 30th May 2010, 16:18

    In any case, I think that VET’s gestures after leaving the car, suggesting Webber was crazy, wont help improving the environment inside RBR….

    • Jhonnie Siggie said on 30th May 2010, 18:46

      Animosity in the team helps Webber. With Vettel’s screw, he will know that even if he wins the next 2 races and have Webber finish second, he will still trail Webber the championship. A racer hustling to make up places is more likely to make mistakes. Mark Webber needs to find a way to remain in the zone and let the youth eliminate himself :)

  17. Oliver said on 30th May 2010, 16:18

    Vettel’s antics after the incident showed immaturity, and he has really gone down the scale in my eyes.

    • Hare said on 31st May 2010, 5:49

      He’s got a bit of a silver spoon in his mouth at Red Bull.. he’s a bit spoilt. That’s how his actions seem to play out to me.

  18. taebtalf said on 30th May 2010, 16:23

    Vettel binned it and ruined a chance for redbull to grab more points for the team whilst they still have a performance advantage.

    someone should give him a good pat on the back for that one.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 16:59

      Lol, yeah at least he keeps the championship exciting.

      The top 8 are just about within just one race win (between Webber and Rosber are 27 points)

      Compare that to last season where Jenson was about 3 race wins clear of the other 3 contender after 7 races.

  19. Vettel seems to be thinking too much about what he wants right now, instead of concentrating on where he (and the team) wants to be at the end of the season. His tangle with Webber, and his failure to shoulder any of the blame, just show immaturity.

  20. Arzvi said on 30th May 2010, 16:30

    Oh my goodness, look at the herd going toward ‘hey vettel’ dont race for a position, help the team, and get 2nd, my ass.. he was trying his best to beat everyone including his team mate which wasn’t by any chance a fault, one who’s content with 2nd should never race, that was why i loved senna, and some of schumi..
    ppl talking about ‘sense’ and for the team, also were the ones complaining half the races didn’t have overtakings, drama, whatever crap even when there were awesome defenses last few races. I’d never give up vettel for this incident, like what button did to lewis at the first corner, webber could’ve avoided the race, and he could’ve gotten the place back by raw merit, but what he did was also good, he defended aggressively.. so its just a plain racing incident involving two good hot blooded racers giving everything for the no.1 position which is by no way wrong. yeah, hamilton got the victory on a plate and red bull lost 42 points, but thats how keke and senna have described racing, never back down even for a sec.
    I am happy I see hot blooded race today, including brilliant duel between petrov and alonso.. i hope turkey stays next year, and am planning to visit it.

    • Patrickl said on 30th May 2010, 17:00

      No, it’s about Vettel causing an avoidable accident.

      If Vettel had simply kept his line and took the corner from Webber there wouldn’t have been any problem.

    • nik said on 30th May 2010, 17:22

      I would agree with you if the circumstances were different, but in this case Vettel simply threw his nose in with a sense of entitlement to the position (possibly reinforced by the feeling within the team) expecting Webber to move over.

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