Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber
Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Red Bull threw away a potential one-two finish in the Turkish Grand Prix after their drivers collided while leading.

Sebastian Vettel had pulled alongside team mate Mark Webber on the straight approaching turn 12 when the two made contact.

The collision put Vettel out on the spot. Mark Webber continued but had to pit to replace a damaged front wing and eventually finished third.

The pair were under pressure from Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren when they hit each other, and the accident let Hamilton by into the lead.

Vettel went down the inside of Webber as they blasted from turn 11 to turn 12. As Vettel drew past he moved towards Webber and the pair made contact. Vettel spun off with a burst tyre.

Afterwards Vettel said:

I was able to go quicker the two or three laps before. I had the corner on the left and was just trying to focus on braking point and all of a sudden I lost the car. You can see on the television we made contact.

I’m not kind of guy that pushes all the fault to one guy we are a team.
Sebastian Vettel

Webber explained what happened in the press conference:

Seb had big top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side for a while.

The he turned pretty quick right and we made contact. It happened very, very fast. It’s a shame for the team, it’s obviously not an ideal day.

There was long way to go in race, it wasn’t a guaranteed victory. But but it was an interesting few metres and in the end it wasn’t the result either of us want.
Mark Webber

Team boss Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” by the collision, adding “we handed 43 points to McLaren on a plate.”

Afterwards Lewis Hamilton said Vettel’s move on Webber was the same as one Vettel made on him when he tried to pass Vettel at the same place earlier in the race.

Who do you blame for the Red Bull collision?

  • Sebastian Vettel (75%)
  • Mark Webber (8%)
  • Both of them (14%)
  • Neither (3%)

Total Voters: 4,338

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416 comments on “Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)”

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  1. I think that Vettel is definitely seen as “the future” by many in the sport and many in RBR’s management, however I think that they are resigned to loosing him to Mercedes once they develop as a team and Schumacher goes. Therefore I reckon that they believe that if they give him a title, he’ll stay.

    I find it hard to believe that there is favouritism by Horner (and the team), despite hints otherwise today. Mainly because Horner and Webber do get on quite well and they are currently working together with Mark Webber’s GP3 team.

  2. Vettel is a spoiled brat and people will eventually fathom that! ME – I always knew it. Thanks for the crash – Great 1-2 for McLaren and Hamilton’s return to the victories and nice places in Drivers and Constructors Champs. !!! :D

    1. always thought he was overrated

  3. This was 100% vettel’s fault, he did not need to be there. The team had a 1-2 in the bag. If he was not in that place, no accident. Also reminds me of when he turned right into hamilton in the pitlane, as I said then the guy is dangerous and needs to be reprimanded.

  4. First of all, I’m surprised that the stewards don’t appear to have chosen to at least investigate the scene between Webber and Vettel. It was a dangerous collision, under the circumstances that they both risked a lot, racing each other at the fastest part of the circuit, well to the left off the usual racing line, all the while leaving each other just enough space to maybe still be able to get it right going around turn 12. A contact at these speeds might as well have led to a much more severe crash than what it turned out to be.

    The way I’m interpreting what was shown on the replay, Webber made his intentions of defending his position clear by moving off the racing line to the left (inside) for turn 12 — and by making that one steering move to the left as Vettel is going alongside him. Vettel, however, chose to ignore those signals, so he stayed to the left of Webber, keeping his top speed (slipstreaming) advantage. Then, apparently, he misjudged his proximity to Webber, as his small corrections — although he would appear to have had enough space to keep going straight on the inside — appear to result in him inching closer to Webber. Webber, on the other hand, doesn’t appear to push even more to the left after the initial move.

    From that, I’d say they’re both somewhat responsible for the outcome. The team does have a point in suggesting that Webber may have just appreciated Vettel was going faster and, thus, could have decided to yield his position. However, naturally, that’s not the only possibility. Vettel may as well have appreciated Webber was defending his position into that corner and could, therefore, have decided to back off once and try again at the next opportunity. I would consider it to be an incomplete analysis of the situation if the option of Webber moving over was the only one that was mentioned.

    My personal call (with the benefit of hindsight, mind you) would be that Vettel should have backed off there. Whether or not the team claims Webber could have known (or should have been told, which may easily have led to subsequent accusations of team orders) Vettel was faster and yielded is irrelevant. What was important was that in that moment, Vettel had clear signals to expect his team-mate not to let him overtake. He didn’t not have a choice but to pursue his intentions of overtaking him into that corner right then. He chose to risk it and it backfired.

    Under such circumstances, I would be delighted to see a bit more self-reflection and criticism from a top driver there. However, as hardly any other driver seems to be able or willing to deliver that, I haven’t been expecting it since a pretty long time now.

    1. i disagree about stewards investigating this incidents, because if anything they are all racing incidents.

      But i agree about Vettel choosing that line anyway even if Webber had already decided to go on the inside. It’s a common thing to do, if someone is faster than you, you stay on the inside. It’s the other job to get you round the outside.

      But somehow Vettel still decided to go on the inside, where it’s very dirty and there’s less room for mistakes.

      Webber had no need to turn right and make more room. Had he done that, he’d have effectively let Sebastian through.

      I blame Sebastian. It was his fault. The move was badly started, just when he chose that inside line. He completed it by turning right (or correcting the car as he was on the dirty side) and touching Webber who was clearly going straight ahead.

      You could see Sebastian was visibly frustrated after Barcelona, Monaco and yesterday’s qualifing. Maybe he was getting too frustrated about Webber beating him once again?. Who knows. But i think he overcooked it all by himself.

  5. @ Jhonnie Siggie
    “Sri… You are obviously a Button fan so just say you want your man to win. The ambiguity of the Mclaren pit wall instructions complicated things so we won’t know for sure if Jenson would have had the shot he had if they were simply instructed to go flat out.”

    Well, if i’m rooting for someone, it is for Michael. I’ve been posting here for about 3 odd years and most of the guys who’ve been posting here for sometime know as much. Now i also root for Webber, quite sad really what happened in this race. Nothing better than seeing a talented and determined driver conducting his business.

    About Button, i just resent that people are readily willing to write him off, even though he has constantly fared better than his team-mate through 2009 and so far during this year… I said as much that we don’t know for sure what happened and that Whitmarsh should be fired for being as incompetent as he is (read my written word mate and not in between the lines). Oh, just so you know mate, i’m not a Button fan, but i do believe that he could drive the current spec car better than Hamilton (which is a thought concurred by several others in the paddock), which he has proved over a fair few races now and with consistency. Again, just so you know, i’m a big fan of team Willy and Ferrari and have massive respect for Adrian Newey.

    My advice to you is to perhaps raise a query than instigating/ accusing, as people wouldn’t treat what you say on merit. Perhaps you don’t care… is it?

    1. Jhonnie Siggie
      30th May 2010, 19:10

      Maybe I was wrong to publicly declare your Button “fanhood” :). How about we agree that whoever finishes the 2010 season ahead (between BUT & HAM) be declared the better of the 2. I say that BUT will never win the WDC while in the same team as HAM and I know you disagree based on your earlier comments. I will write a note to myself that I will apologize to Sri on this forum if BUT finishes ahead of HAM in 2010. I’m putting my money where my mouth is…

      Oh and I think the Webber story is great. If he can beat Vettel in 2010 they should make a movie about it down under. I’m rooting for that outcome.

  6. Vettel saying that webber should have given room is a fair call. However, in my opinion if that had been a car of a competitor there would be no doubt that vettel was at fault. So with that in mind why should Webber have yielded the position.

    To me im also THINKING he had over shot his braking point. To me it sounded like webber was only just letting off the throttle as vettel turns into him.

    Call me a biased Aussie, but if that had been Mark behind i would be surprised if he made the same type of move and didnt run shotgun to vettel. But Webber strikes me as that type of guy and i wonder if his loyalty to teams has resulted in some of the bad drives which he has had.

    But with how close those guys were running and i assume they were getting some tow (obviously excluding mark. Vettel mustve been in a tough position, but i would guess he was more concerned with taking first as opposed to Hamilton being behind.

    1. Vettel had plenty of room on the left… and the next turn was a left turn… the guy can’t overtake without creating a dangerous situation… he tried the same move on Lewis which he mentioned during the BBC Forum, fortunately he didnt take out the McLaren… and then Lewis took the position back from him…

  7. The more I think about the supposed favouritism towards Vettel by the senior members of Red Bull, the more I am reminded of (not that I have a memory of it!), Denny Hulme’s title win against Jack Brabham, in a Brabham!

  8. Mohamed Sakr
    30th May 2010, 19:30


    What does this mean!!??? It’s CLEAR favoritism towards Vettel. If Webber had to save fuel on this lap, they had to LET VETTEL BEHIND HIM!! To save him from the McLarens! And if vettel knows that he’s now faster than webber, way start moving onto him sooooo early?? This discussion and debate could go on forever guys..

  9. I voted Vettel guilty as charged. But there was no excuse for Webber to take his teammate to the paint at 200mph when he was obviously going to get by or get position for the next corner. Webber’s habit is to drive extra “wide” and this time it ends in tears for him and the team. Webber doesn’t have to play by Marquis of Queensbury rules for anyone, but when the man writing your checks owns the other car, you put away the brass knuckles.

    1. webber apologised after the hamilton accident in melbourne… he has respect for other drivers… vettel seems like a spoiled brat who needs some learning to do on and off the track… only lucky to have a quick car but the guy isn’t a racer if he’s trying to overtake and then take out the guy who’s saving fuel… button did the job giving more space to lewis and then backed off when he saw lewis on the charge… that’s a gentleman’s club, and if you’re not a member, you wont have friends in f1

  10. I guess I voted wrong, but it seemed to me (after a close inspection, Webber touched Vettel first on the side-pod causing Vettels car to swerve and make contact with the back wheels. Hope this doesn’t happen again between them, but what really enraged me more was handing the victory to Mclaren. Although I would have loved to see Button and Hamilton take each other out in those maneuvers that followed after the Red Bull self-destruction

    1. After a close inspection, Webber didn’t touch Vettel first.

  11. Helmut Marko is a weird guy, basically he says: “we do not favour Vettel, but Mark should let him by”.

    No, the guy who initiates the manoeuvre must plan ahead a little bit. His explanation was, that obviously Vettel had to turn into Webber, after all “he cannot brake on the dirt because for sure he knows what happens”. Yeah, “for sure” he knows.

    Vettel “for sure” knew that this overtaking attempt would put him on the dirt side of the track. That was the risk he was taking. Mark gave him enough room on track. Yes, it was the dirty side, but there was a plenty of room and Seb “for sure” didn’t have to crash into Webber.

    1. there was lots of room if you watch the stuff unravel from a normal side view (in replay)… what was he thinking…. and he never apoligises.. very unsportsmanlike, noone will like him on the paddock

  12. Good old Redbull. Laugh, I nearly got the Beers In.

  13. Seriously though, It was Webbers fault, Vettel was through an on to Him, To squeeze another car is one thing but to do it to your team mate is unforgiveable. Theres a word Iam looking for an it ryhmes with cat.

  14. to sum up,as those guys on TimesOnline said:

    T H wrote:
    “Vettel was alongside Webber when he took him out.
    Webber held position whilst Vettel drifted to the right.


    Some Guy wrote:
    “Nice work Button glad to see someone trying to keep the fans happy.. Lewis held firm and gave him as good as he got. Well done guys.. Unlucky webber.. You desereved the race.”

  15. I won’t wait for Keith to post the headline: RedBull Been Caught. Since Spain, it has been clear that McLaren had the race pace to keep RBR honest, and here we saw Webber holding Hamilton up from the beginning. It was wishful thinking to imagine that this team could be hauled in, etc. Let’s remember that last year, Turkey was Button’s last win, and it was the end of Brawn dominance. So it is again.

    RBR lost the titles due to persistent bungling last year. This time, they are the quarry. Only now, they have squandered their speed coming in to this inflection point and built no points advantages, despite taking each pole position, and their bungling shows now sign of ending. Stick a fork in RBR. They have to hope VMM self-destruct as their drivers clash.

  16. Vettel is clearly Red Bulls Darling.

    I think Christian Horner was expecting Webber to give away the position to Vettel.

    Webber held his line. Otherwise he would have lost the lead and would have come under from Hamilton for straying off course. I quite like Red Bull but the way Horner was siding with Vettel, I have lost respect for him. If Mark was in Vettels position at the time of the incident and came to the pitwall I dont think he would get the same treatment as Vettel. Vettel was at fault by not treating Webber with enough respect. Vettels Fault

  17. *sorry meant to add “Pressure” between under and from.

  18. I am sorry for Red Bull F1 racing team and members, sorry Webber and specially for Adrian Newey whom provided one the best design of F1 cars of 009 and 2010. The presion on Seb was huge and the error was even bigger!!
    I am not on favor of team orders but someone must put some directions within Red Bull team.
    In the old days (10 for 1st …) 1 point was around 1.000.000 euros so …
    Red Bull could have 45 points and McL just 25 but McL got 45 and RB just 15 … 50 points lost over the table.
    Seb … that not the way to do it!!

  19. David Johnson
    30th May 2010, 21:07

    Really dissapointed with Red bull management seeming to blame Webber for not letting the faster Vettel through…people watch f1 primarly to watch racers race…loads of respect to the efforts the teams put in…but when a driver can be cold and calculating over whats best for the team when racing wheel to wheel with his main rival for the championship at 180 mph…is when robots take over the world and when I stop watching f1…

    p.s. Can Vettel consistently make a proper pass stick on a relatively fast car ? Or is he just a very quick time trialer.

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