Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber
Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Red Bull threw away a potential one-two finish in the Turkish Grand Prix after their drivers collided while leading.

Sebastian Vettel had pulled alongside team mate Mark Webber on the straight approaching turn 12 when the two made contact.

The collision put Vettel out on the spot. Mark Webber continued but had to pit to replace a damaged front wing and eventually finished third.

The pair were under pressure from Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren when they hit each other, and the accident let Hamilton by into the lead.

Vettel went down the inside of Webber as they blasted from turn 11 to turn 12. As Vettel drew past he moved towards Webber and the pair made contact. Vettel spun off with a burst tyre.

Afterwards Vettel said:

I was able to go quicker the two or three laps before. I had the corner on the left and was just trying to focus on braking point and all of a sudden I lost the car. You can see on the television we made contact.

I’m not kind of guy that pushes all the fault to one guy we are a team.
Sebastian Vettel

Webber explained what happened in the press conference:

Seb had big top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side for a while.

The he turned pretty quick right and we made contact. It happened very, very fast. It’s a shame for the team, it’s obviously not an ideal day.

There was long way to go in race, it wasn’t a guaranteed victory. But but it was an interesting few metres and in the end it wasn’t the result either of us want.
Mark Webber

Team boss Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” by the collision, adding “we handed 43 points to McLaren on a plate.”

Afterwards Lewis Hamilton said Vettel’s move on Webber was the same as one Vettel made on him when he tried to pass Vettel at the same place earlier in the race.

Who do you blame for the Red Bull collision?

  • Sebastian Vettel (75%)
  • Mark Webber (8%)
  • Both of them (14%)
  • Neither (3%)

Total Voters: 4,338

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416 comments on “Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)”

  1. Well i guess we’ll never know where vettel saved his fuel. But you have to wonder….

    He was slow for the first stint, and Webber was holding back hamilton on his own. As a result Vettel is able to take back second position due to hamilton’s slow pit stop.

    Nice team strategy for Vettel to use the extra power to take on Webber.

  2. For what it worth, and I don’t know if someone else did mention it, but watching the video through Vettel’s onboard camera, it is possible to see that he approached Webber and first he tried to overtake on the right side, but suddently choose the left one, where there was enough place to go…

  3. Captain Caveman
    30th May 2010, 22:29

    I think we may be missing a trick here, as the fact that the incident is not being investigated by the stewards indicates that no driver operated outside of the rules and thus it is just a racing incident.

    The issue now is due to it being an internal team investigation as to how they lost 45 odd points to Mclaren. and from their (RBR) perspective both driver are genuinely at equal fault.

    One driver got the jump on the other, and was partially ahead. other driver applied pressure which could be regarded as futile and only going to lead to an incident. ( crashing or both cars missing the apex)

    i am content that both drivers know they could both have backed out and are claiming innocents as per the FIA rules….. which is true they are……

    BUT BUT, They both know they screeeeweeed up as far as team tactics are concerned. RBR see the constructors as priority and then drivers and secondary…..

    1. Its 44 points, actually.

      Also, it clearly WAS a racing incident. None of the drivers made a deliberate move to crash into another, and while Vettel was the one ahead, he was also the one to hit Webber, not vice versa.

      I fail to see what kind of pressure did Webber apply. He was driving in a straight line. If you watch replays closely, its Vettel who moves his steering wheel.

      Gotta agree though, they failed bigtime. When you’re heading for 1-2, you do not drive like this without 100% certainty you will be able to back down.

  4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CniP2hpXx7Y&feature=related
    This link shows the racing line Webber should have followed or would have followed had Vettel not been there. Other race simulations by other drivers also show that Webber did not follow his racing line, but drove defensively against Vettel.
    Clearly Webber did not move over towards the right side of the track as Vettel would have expected him to do. Instead he was leaving Vettel less and less room to brake but on the dirty side and enter the turn correctly.
    And as RB indicated that they had instructed their drivers to give each other room, the incident was mostly Webbers fault.
    Also if your team mate is half a car in front of You, probably You should give him room.

  5. Captain Caveman
    30th May 2010, 22:55

    excellent vid, especially as webber states on turn 12 there is an opportunity to overtake on the inside :-) ……

    i believe the incident happened on turn 12… but may be wrong

    1. Yes, it happened exactly there, where Webber says it is possible to overtake on the inside, and You can see that he dosen’t follow the race line, but squeezes Vettel to the right instead:
      Only by comparing the two videos, can we get rid of the widespread misunderstanding that Webber just “held his line” – he did not. If the other car had not been a team-mate, then maybee OK, but in this case I fully agree with Horner: Move!

      1. Webber did hold his line.His i]line at this particular time just happened to be a defensive one. he is perfectly within his rights to defend his position. He has defended much harder in the past (Abu Dhabi 2009) without crashing because the driver following him (Jenson Button) was talented enough to know how to race! Mark Webber is brilliant defensively, probably his strongest attribute.

        Vettel messed it up by trying to intimidate somebody who can’t be intimidated!

      2. good grief, Palle. You’re clueless. “Holding your line” doesn’t just mean the racing line. It means staying in the same spot on the track, relative to the edges of the road. And that’s what Webber did. Vettel turned right, Webber had his wheel straight and even turned right himself to try and avoid the accident.

        1. If You were paying the two gentlemens sallery You would probably not see it that way. They are teammates, Vettel is faster in this situation, Webber should have given him space to avoid the dirtiest area and then tried to overtake him, when and if Vettel would overshoot at the turn. As the team clearly has told the drivers to give each other space, Webber is at fault in this case – if you are a teamboss, and not a Webber fan.
          Case Vettel vs Kubica it was clearly Vettels fault – just to state that I’m not taking Vettels side in any case.
          I’m sure the two McLaren drivers also knew they were up for a serious talk with their boss, which is why the 3 didn’t nook overly happy at the podium.

          1. MouseNightshirt
            1st June 2010, 0:15

            No he should not have just given way.

            Mark had track position. The pass is not complete until Car B has completely passed Car A. So what if Vettel was “faster” (which he wasn’t until the whole fuel thing happened) – that’s no reason to let someone by.

            They’re racing to become world champions, not be everyone’s best mate.

            Mark was perfectly within his rights to hold that line. It’s Vettel’s responsibility to be sensible. Nothing was stopping him from braking on the line he was already on rather than trying to barge across.

  6. The accident with RBR should be blamed on the team manager responsible for the race strategy of both drivers. Think simple: you have two highly competitive drivers who, for different reasons, badly want to win the championship, kind of two 3-yr old girls fighting for the lollipop. The team manager should have given explicit directions regarding racing strategy (i.e. if second driver outperforms first driver for 5 consecutive laps, he should be given priority to pass). Obviously this strategy was missing or lacking or incorrect. The result was the two drivers doing their own thing, which is, stubbornly try to stay on top. They created a mess. Before we blame either one, we need to have insights on what had been discussed/decided. Till then, the team manager is responsible.

  7. the whole button-being-favoured argument is totally invalid.. mclaren are too professional to waste their time and resources by effectively paying for a talented young driver in an underprivileged financial position to go racing and become world champ with them and after 3 seasons in the top flight of his career to switch attention to a driver who’s been around the best part of a decade and has only just come to form as a grand prix driver because he was handed a decent car for the first time in his career.. what we are witnessing at mclaren is someone who is mature and ‘been around’ knowing all the right (excuse the pun) buttons to press and things to say and do within a team to make himself comfortable and to bring aspects of the team around himself, if anything its button making the team work for him and not the other way round (damned clever of him eh?)

    Now to my point about Seb V.. what i think happened was a total racing incident as by his onboard i didn’t notice him intentionally steering towards webber (may have to re-watch that) and if this is a case nobody was to blame but sebs lack of spatial awareness and over-eagerness which seems to have caused most of his incidents. They were both racing each other for the same spot and two cars can’t occupy the same spot at the same time unfortunately, something gave and vettel went into webber taking himself out of the race, 100% nothing sinister about it and its unfortunate they happen to be team mates. Webber fans should realise he’s done mark a favour by dropping out of the points and quite a few places in the drivers standings by his moment of madness.

    1. Gosh reading that got me out of breath!

      1. sorry about that :P I read too many conspiracy theory type comments that don’t make sense if you take mclaren’s situation into perspective.

      2. also, punctuation flies out of the window when i go off on one, which reflects the way i speak IRL too.. and it didn’t feel that long when i was typing it!

  8. So, if I understood correctly, there is a new rule in F1 now: when you are leading the race and there is another guy behind you, just MOVE AWAY, let him pass.
    Is that it?
    Then I guess is better if we all go to watch some bowling or chess.

    1. MouseNightshirt
      1st June 2010, 0:16

      Sadly, according to quite a few readers here, that indeed should be the new rule.

      Does no-one appreciate racing anymore?

  9. Blind Freddy can see from the replays that Webber doesn’t move his steering wheel at all and Vettel just moves right on him. Vettel is an immature goose who threw a tantrum when things didn’t go his way. Maybe Red Bull should start selling dummies (pacifiers) in their merchandise tent. I think Vettel keeps spitting his one out

    1. In fact they’ll get even more cash for the ones he spits out. That might pay for the tubs he writes off.

  10. How the HELL can you call Webber Rubbish VXR? Back to back wins in Spain and Monaco, 3 poles – your an idiot!

    I dont know if ANYONE watched the reply – But in case you didn’t – Vettel pulled his car into Webber! Vettel could’ve ALSO backed off! Everyone forgets that. You would think that people, such as Vettel, would have enough SITUATIONAL awareness to know when to pull in front of Webber! That makes me think that Vettel EXPECTED Webber to back off. Who the HELL does that when they are in P1?!

    Vettel is feeling the pressure now too! He doesn’t like being beaten and he isn’t use to. Lets not forget that Mark had his a$$ handed to him ever since Vettel arrived. Now the tables have turned and he cant hand it – its so clear.

    What disturbs me most is that i heard the BBC stream, im from Aus, reported there were radio transmissions telling Webber to turn down his engine and Vettel to turn his up…?! Is this correct? Aussies dont get the BBC stream here – well the full one. We only get the commentary during the race…

  11. The move by Vettel was one of the dumbest I have seen in a long time. However I am not one who thinks he should not try to pass, it’s a race, and they must fight each-other or the sport is just a farce.

    Too bad the McLarens didn’t race to the end because of fuel, it was looking like it was going to be a great race and the first time we could see Ham and Button fight it out.

  12. Dean Yamasaki
    31st May 2010, 2:10

    I’m usually one that sees the various shades of gray in an argument, but in this case I think Vettel is definitely at fault.

    Experienced racers say they take into account the reputation of the driver they are racing against, and that going up against someone they’ve never raced before is often a bit scary. Mark Webber is well known to be among the toughest drivers to overtake and one of the most defensive as well.

    Vettel’s youth, competitveness and insecurity about the resurgent Webber created a risky situation in which he relied on the other driver to bail him out. That’s often just a result of good old fashioned racing, but doing that with a teammate is irresponsible and selfish.

    He should have radioed in his intention to ovetake or stayed behind Webber and protect his position so Red Bull could finish 1-2.

    He and his car lost the race in qualifying.

    But his actions during the race hurt the entire team.

  13. Stupid Incident for RBR Renault …

  14. Why does nobody blame the team for this? The guys on the pit wall obviously was Vettel catching up to Webber. Did they not advise their drivers on what to do? Why do they sit there anyways? This is entirely Horner’s fault for not managing his drivers. Vettel was quicker and was correct to overtake but should have ensured there was more space. Webber should not have defended by strictly not moving off the line. This is 100% a team management issue. These are racers, they are supposed to compete.

    1. The guy on the pitwall didn’t turn into Webber, that’s why.

  15. Hamilton put the same move on Massa on 2008 at the same place. The only difference is that he stayed on his course until the curve.

    1. Good point! The moves are pretty much the same in concept, though i think at one point Massa gives Lewis even less space. Great racing.

  16. I think it worked out much better for Webber than having a Redbull 1-2. 15 point advantage over his closest competitor for the driver’s championship – PRICELESS!

  17. I dont know whether I am imagining things or not, But I clearly hear Webber lifting off when he was alongside vettel, and if you look at the incident from vettel’s camera, you can also clearly see that he did no veering to the right it was only after wheel contact with webber that you can see a clear wheel angle and he was countersteering then(turning to the left not to the right)

    I therefore think that webber hold a big chunk of the blame, He was unnecessarily bullying vettel off track to the right in the braking zone while leaving a very huge space to his right. He was not anywhere near the normal racing and his liftoff seemed suspiciously too early. Of course it would be nice to get webber’s telemetry to know if indeed he was just braking early or he caused the incident knowingly by making contact with vettel’s rear.

    Isn’t it suspicious that webber was able to park his left front on the flow separating board thing on vettels car, give vettel a rear puncture, do all that damage on the suspension components on vettel’s right rear and emerge from the whole incident with only a damaged front wing?

    Vettel said: “I’m not in the happiest of moods. If you look at the pictures it was clear I had the inside. I was ahead and just going down to focus on the braking point and honestly, you can see we touched and he touched my right rear wheel and I went off.”

    1. Yes you are imagining. Or drunk

      1. It’s the teams fault and vettel’s inexperiences in these conditions. vettel drives like his in a go-karting race and deserves zero points which mark handed him NJ

    2. “you can also clearly see that he did no veering to the right it was only after wheel contact”

      No, you can clearly see that both are driving side by side, with very little room for Vettel, but enough. In the video link below at 0:25 you can see his car parallel to Webber’s, and just one frame later, still at 0:25, Vettel’s car is pointing towards Webber’s (before contact), and then the drives into Webber. Webber drove his line, left room for a car to his left, and was driving straight. Please people, stop being so stupid, I know it is the internet and you can be anonymous with your stupidity, but there are a lot of people on the internet that are not blind sheep, and will rip apart BS propaganda and childish conspiracy theories.


      1. it was the Wheel contact that made vettels car suddenly point right. Look at the replay from vettel’s car and you can see there was no steering to the right. None at all! Plus they were less than half a car length from the left edge of the track

        I am not trying to propagandize anybody, Im just saying that From the whole thing does not seem as clear cut as many are saying.And I still have this nagging suspicion that webber is not innocent

        remember also that the one who profited most was Webber,he was able to remain in the championship lead, the guy who was closest to challenging him in championship standings is now fifth, and if he wasn’t the number 1 guy in red bull, He is now much more closer to that goal.

  18. If you look at distance signs during the on-board video, it is easy to notice that the cars touched even before reaching 150 (meters before the corner) board, which is a bit early to start braking, even considering being off line, with ~20 laps of fuel and on the used tyres. This makes lost-the-car-under-braking argument even a less sound one.

    I think Sebastian just lost it due to serious misjudgement and the only thing he is right to do now is to repeat his childish hand gestures in front of the mirror.

    At the moment, the way RBR and Seb are handling the situation is awful in my view. Mark hasn’t said a single word wrong, being a great team player, though he has every right to give his team mate a really hard time through media. On the other hand, Christian Horner and Helmut Marko laying the blame on Mark, which is really frustrating. Why would you blame a racer for leaving enough space to make a pass and holding his line afterwards?..

  19. I blame both as Vettel shouldn’t have moved right that quickly & Webber should have left some space for Vettel as they should remember that they are team-mates of each other.

    Now I want to talk something different in those five years of Schumacher’s WC days no wonder why Todt, Ross used to have team orders, it will be the Red Bull management that will be responsible for this incident they should have avoided this, can they bring things good between the drivers I doubt.

    1. I liked what Hamilton said after the race about Webber & Vettel’s incident

      “It was like watching the action on wide-screen TV” joked Hamilton on the Red Bull

  20. well, for what it’s worth I think Webber is more at fault. Vettel was in front – I don’t think anyone will argue about that, and you would expect your team mate to give you enough room in those circumstances. It is normal for the guy who has his nose in front to move across rowards the racing line and Webber knows that. I think Vettel was absolutely right to go for the move, it was a good move and he deserved to be in front. By the way, if Red Bull mngmt prefer Vettel, so what? It’s a private team people, they can specify what they want, does it say in the FIA regs that team mates MUST be treated equally? Interestingly Schumi said in an interview that in the Mercedes team they are not forbidden to overtake but are forbidden to collide.

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