Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber
Vettel spins off after colliding with team mate Webber

Red Bull threw away a potential one-two finish in the Turkish Grand Prix after their drivers collided while leading.

Sebastian Vettel had pulled alongside team mate Mark Webber on the straight approaching turn 12 when the two made contact.

The collision put Vettel out on the spot. Mark Webber continued but had to pit to replace a damaged front wing and eventually finished third.

The pair were under pressure from Lewis Hamilton’s McLaren when they hit each other, and the accident let Hamilton by into the lead.

Vettel went down the inside of Webber as they blasted from turn 11 to turn 12. As Vettel drew past he moved towards Webber and the pair made contact. Vettel spun off with a burst tyre.

Afterwards Vettel said:

I was able to go quicker the two or three laps before. I had the corner on the left and was just trying to focus on braking point and all of a sudden I lost the car. You can see on the television we made contact.

I’m not kind of guy that pushes all the fault to one guy we are a team.
Sebastian Vettel

Webber explained what happened in the press conference:

Seb had big top speed advantage, he went down the inside and we were side by side for a while.

The he turned pretty quick right and we made contact. It happened very, very fast. It’s a shame for the team, it’s obviously not an ideal day.

There was long way to go in race, it wasn’t a guaranteed victory. But but it was an interesting few metres and in the end it wasn’t the result either of us want.
Mark Webber

Team boss Christian Horner said he was “disappointed” by the collision, adding “we handed 43 points to McLaren on a plate.”

Afterwards Lewis Hamilton said Vettel’s move on Webber was the same as one Vettel made on him when he tried to pass Vettel at the same place earlier in the race.

Who do you blame for the Red Bull collision?

  • Sebastian Vettel (75%)
  • Mark Webber (8%)
  • Both of them (14%)
  • Neither (3%)

Total Voters: 4,338

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416 comments on “Webber and Vettel lose one-two finish for Red Bull after collision (Poll)”

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  1. Vettel’s nicer than nice persona out of the window, the idea that webber should have left more space is nonsense, Vettel turned into him , no way he could get out of th eway.

    His gestures and angry rhetoric afterwards shows his real character.

    He had the corner anyway, i dont know why he didnt just veer across more gently.

    1. “His gestures and angry rhetoric afterwards shows his real character”

      as with his silly carry on in the press conference after qualifying. a lot of growing up to do i feel

  2. They’re both stupid. Remeber Vettel and Kubica crash? Similar should of given right then and he didn’t. Mark did the same on Lewis this year too, both drivers are hooligans and should use their head rather then brute force, this isn’t the last of this I expect more team mate crashes later in the season regardless if there is room given or not.

  3. When Vettel was in front of Webber he could no longer see him, and as he was in front, he simply asumed that Webber will pull back to the racing line to try and get Vettel back as you normaly see, like in Button Hamilton situation later in the race, but Webber stayed to the inside of the straight which is foolish, even if they had not collieded. The fact that Webber gets himself and others in trouble very often placing his car on the road badly(in my opinion) speaks for it self!

    1. I watched some replays of many different moves into turn 12 an Webber was basically closer to the inside than other cars actually on the inside is to the iside. And that is super silly squared, especially racing with your teammate when he has no view of you.

      1. Agree with you here mtss. Webber is definitely sticking longer to the inside. He has the right to hold his line and yes, Vettel moves to the right, but I can’t imagine he could not avoid this collision or foresee Vettel moving towards him. Some frustration from both sides here?

  4. Well after reading quotes from Horner and Dr Marko, it would appear there are no team orders at RBR, just so long as Vettel is allowed to lead!!!!!!!!!!!

    Question is, why with only approx 2/3 race distance gone, was Webber told to conserve fuel? Sounds like a poor race strategy there ………….

    1. Horner did expect Webber to yield the position.

      Just watch the video again .. 1:33-1:36 . You can clearly see Horner say “Come on Mark.. MOVE.”

      I personally think Seb is the more talented of the two drivers, however, he is incredibly immature and not so great at pulling off overtaking moves. Mark is pretty careless too, as shown in Australia this year.

        1. That’s a great spot! I missed that.

          You have to assume the mentality at Red Bull, based on the this and comments afterwards is that Webber should have given way.

          Telling ya, the boy has a silver spoon in his mouth, they want him to be like Hamilton. They ultimately want another Schumacher in camp, a poster boy. Can only imagine Dietrich Mateschitz lusts after the reverence Schumacher had in the years he won.

          To that end, Webber is a bit of a thorn in their side. I love it! :)

    1. Ah yes, an even more scientific approach than my own. The use of the red line illustrates perfectly what I was saying, that Webber was moving to the right & giving Vettel plenty of room.

      Perhaps Horner & Marko should have looked at that before shooting their mouths off.

    2. Nice stills but you have to ignore the last one because there vettels car is no longer straight because they already had made contact. But these pictures show to very important things:
      a) Vettel is in front.
      b) He can no longer see him(Webber)
      But also it very clearly shows how unnecessarily Webber was to the inside of the track and Vettels move to the right was as gentle as possible at 200mph. I understand why Webber didnt do what everybody else does – taking the racing line to try and cut back, he was hugly frustrated that vettel was faster than him. And to do so on your teammate in an 1-2 positions is unforgivable.

      1. “Unnecessary”? It’s called racing! Webber saw Vettel coming down the inside and made it hard for him.

        No doubt Christian Horner would prefer his drivers to remain 10ft apart at all times, but you can’t hire a racing driver and then tell him not to race.

  5. Mr Pink & I have watched it again in slo mo, and from every angle available. We also applied some scientific calculations by using Mr Pink’s fingers as calipers to see if there was any truth to the rumour that Webber moved accross. The end result was, that Webber was indeed moving to the left. But, as soon as you see on the onboard camera Vettel come up along side of Webber, Webber moves to the right. So he *was* giving Vettel room to complete the manouvre. Then when he is about halfway past, Vettel clearly steers over to the right in between Webber’s wheels. Webber then steers harder to the right, clearly in an effort to avoid contact. Vettel did touch the painted line right before the contact happened, and I know there were a few specks of rain so it may have been slippery. But it doesn’t look like the tyre lost grip on the kerb. It looks like he just tried to barge his way past. And as for those who seem to think that it is the overtakee’s responsibility to ensure that the overtaker can complete his move, are you for real? Vettel was the one trying the move, therefore the onus was on him to make sure he could get the job done. That includes expecting the person in front to defend, perhaps vigourously.

  6. Fact: vettel was clearly going faster than webber, and would have been far past him had the collision not taken place. Vettel was in front when the collision took place.

    opinion: seeing vettel would comfortably overtake webber, being a teammate webber should have not stayed far left squeezing vettel when the racing line sweeped from the left to the right of that straight. vettel was following this racing line like a normal driver would, and marks inability to accept his teammate was probably going to leave him for dead caused the accident. In my opinion, webber should have yealded the line cause he behind (marginaly) and it was his teammate, fair enough if it was a maclaren, squeeze them, but not a teammate. notice button never went all the way across to the pitwall when lewis came back at him down the start/finish?

    1. Vettel would have overtaken Webber, but Vettel for some reason turned right far too soon, which obviously caused the accident with Webber. If he didn’t turn right, he would have made the pass and there’d be no problem. Webber squeezed but gave Vettel enough room to get by, which is fair.

  7. Close thread!!! the votes speak for themselves!!!
    I dont think Senna, Prost, Schumacher or Mansell would have yeilded !!!

  8. I keep looking a the replay over and over again for the smallest details and a few things are clear.

    Mark did hold his line and was as steady as a rock. Vettel was very unsteady and I don’t know if he turned in as much as he did not have good control of the car.

    They were well outside the braking zone (look from Marks cam) so it was not braking that unsettled Vettel, he just struggles with overtaking and making clean moves.

    He is young and he will improve, but Mark really showed him up today. I hope they can salvage something of their relationship and get the team across the line at the end of the year.

  9. It is extraordinary that most of the comments ignore the fact that a corner was coming up and both Mark and Vettel had to negotiate it. Mark did not go onto the racing line for the corner , instead he held a line to push Vettel into the dirt and off the track, or, crash into him. When Vettel moved for the corner as the video showed Mark should have done the same.

    1. Webber was pulling a classic Sheuy move, forcing Vettel onto the dirty part of the track and slowing him much more that he would normally have too, as they came thrugh the corner Webber would have been able to get back on the power earlier and keep Vettel of line through 10. He would have had much more speed as they entered the straight. Vettel couldn’t handle the pressure.

    2. Paul, can you quote the rule saying you have to take the racing line into a corner?

      If you want to drive up to the corner on a line thats a car-width away from, and parallel to, the inside edge then that’s your choice. And Webber’s choice.

      That Vettel is in a bad position to brake for the corner is something Vettel has to deal with.

      1. “can you quote the rule saying you have to take the racing line into a corner?”

        I think it’s covered by 40.14:

        “If your team wants the other guy to win, don’t do anything that might be considered racing.”

  10. but webber was defending his position, as if he’d just hand the position to vettel, regardless if he was a team mate or not.

    1. But they are team mates Tom.

  11. I would love to hear the team radio before the incident.

    We know Vettel was told he had extra revs and would therefore be able to pass Mark. But did they add something like “we’ve told Mark about this”, or “Mark knows about this”?

    To me, the evidence suggests that Vettel was not expecting Webber to give him a hard time. He expected that Webber would concede the place and get out of the way. I wonder if the team was responsible for creating that impression in Vettel’s mind.

  12. I haven’t read all the previous 412 comments so I am probably not adding anything new to the discussion.

    I am in agreement with the majority in that I think Vettel was at fault for the coming together. From the TV footage it appears that Vettel turned right before he was fully in front of Webber.

    Vettel turned right on Hamilton when they were side by side in the pit lane earlier this season so perhaps he thought the same would happen again.

    The main criticism of Vettel in the past has been that he can only win from the front and he can’t overtake, and on this evidence it would appear that his overtaking skills are lacking.

  13. We should be thanking Vettel for providing us with a piece of F1 history. I am sure we will see that clip for years to come. What a great season it has been so far. Now all the front running teams have civil wars to contend with. Roll on Canada!

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