Hamilton “surprised” by Button’s pass (Turkish Grand Prix team-by-team)

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

The McLarens very nearly finished in the opposite order
The McLarens very nearly finished in the opposite order

While the drama at Red Bull was impossible to miss, McLaren’s one-two win at Istanbul wasn’t a straightforward affair either.

After the race there was talk of “confusion” over the drivers’ instructions to save fuel. Lewis Hamilton spoke of being “surprised” that Jenson Button caught and passed him – before Hamilton reversed the move.

Jenson Button Lewis Hamilton
Qualifying position 4 2
Qualifying time comparison (Q3) 1’26.781 (+0.348) 1’26.433
Race position 2 1
Average race lap 1’31.901 (+0.046) 1’31.856
Laps 58/58 58/58
Pit stops 1 1

You need to upgrade your Flash Player

Open lap times interactive chart in new window

Jenson Button

McLaren enjoyed far better performance after a poor weekend in Monaco – and Button benefited from a problem-free race after suffering car trouble in the last two rounds.

Had it not been for Michael Schumacher’s spin in qualifying Button might well have taken third off Vettel in qualifying. Unfortunately Button had let Schumacher past before starting his final flying lap.

Schumacher got past Button at the first corner as Button took care not to run into his team mate. Unlike in Spain, this time Button made short work of Schumacher, passing him on the run to turn 12.

He never looked like passing Vettel in the opening stint, nor putting a move on his team mate – until the Red Bulls went out.

After that Button first closed on Hamilton, then passed him on lap 48, only for Hamilton to reverse the move at the next corner. Button then slipped back from his team mate – as the lap time chart above shows he was suddenly around half a second per lap slower.

Compare Jenson Button’s form against his team mate in 2010

Lewis Hamilton

Bounced back from a lurid spin at turn eight in final practice – partly thanks to him dragging the car back to the pits on at least two punctured tyres.

Hamilton split the Red Bulls in qualifying and put a handy pass on Vettel on the first lap to hold onto his second place at the start.

He fell back behind Vettel due to a slow pit stop and was close behind the two RB6s when they collided on lap 41.

It’s clear from the lap times that both McLarens began – or increased – their efforts to preserve their cars from that moment on. But Hamilton slowed down more than Button as he explained after the race:

I felt confident we could get a potential one-two, and we were trying to look after the tyres and save the fuel to the finish. The [lap time] target they gave me was perhaps a little bit slower than they?d meant, so Jenson was suddenly on my tail. I had a great battle with him, and was happy to get past because it was quite a surprise.
Lewis Hamilton

Reading between the lines it seems likely the pair were told to back off, the team wishing to avoid a repeat of what had happened to Red Bull.

But it’s unlikely that having Button pass Hamilton and then be re-taken by him figured in the team’s game plan at all, and they can consider themselves lucky it didn’t end in tears.

Compare Lewis Hamilton’s form against his team mate in 2010

2010 Turkish Grand Prix

Browse all 2010 Turkish Grand Prix articles

202 comments on “Hamilton “surprised” by Button’s pass (Turkish Grand Prix team-by-team)”

Jump to comment page: 1 2 3
  1. love those between the lines quotes.

    Hami is always “surprised”. :P

    1. Actually Lewis needs to watch his back at McLaren. I regard this whole talk of Lewis being favourite at McLaren as nothing but preemtive spin, a smoke screen, there in order to pull the rug from under anyone who questions decisions that aid Jensen and hamper Lewis..

      It is clear that Whitmarsh, and certain other tech staff, are playing to the home crowd and certain sponsors…who would find a clean cut blond smoothie more acceptable than a black man as a champion..not to forget that a win for Jensen would make him the 1st Englishman to hang onto his title of course…

      And when one takes into account that in F1 most fans, commentators, tech staff, stewards etc come from the same background, then it is not difficult to see how they can all agree as to who they want to see as champion and collectively and independently work towards that goal. This is clear to see in the constant negativity that seems to surround everything Lewis does: “.. aggressive driving style” or ” …hard on his tyres” and other such nonsense, while in contrast Jensen is…”smooth”, “cool” etc etc

      There are a lot of ppl out their who find Lewis talent and success hard to swallow..F1 is on the cutting edge of technology perhaps, but culturally its 50 yrs behind the curve…

      Listeing to certain commentators, who know exactly what to say in order for their careers to blossom, you would think Jensen is the best thing to hit F1 since Fangio, when in fact he is one of the most boring drivers out there. Last year he only won because he was in the fastest car, which was of dubious legality any how and then he was given preferential treatment against his aging team mate! This year he lucked into 2 wins, one of which was at the expense of Lewis being ham strung by McLaren…

      There is too much politics at McLaren under Whitmarsh and less passion and racing it seems to me than there was during days of Ron Dennis. Whitmarsh and Co need to stop playing games and focus enriching the “equal status” spirit of the McLaren, that made it the great team it is today..

      1. It is clear that Whitmarsh, and certain other tech staff, are playing to the home crowd and certain sponsors…who would find a clean cut blond smoothie more acceptable than a black man as a champion..not to forget that a win for Jensen would make him the 1st Englishman to hang onto his title of course…

        Do you have any facts to back that up? Or are you just going to throw baseless accusations around while hiding behind a false name?

        1. Praveen Titus
          31st May 2010, 17:38

          Great response Keith! Good to silence those black-blonde theorists.

          What we can clearly say based on race evidence is that Lewis was on fuel-save mode and Button wasn’t, but the moment Button’s place was taken back by Lewis he was suddenly on fuel-save mode. What I think, based on this analysis, is that Button was told to let Lewis win this race.

          To me it seemed that Button did not defend the inside line into Turn 1. If that’s true, it’s clear that he was told to let Lewis by and coast to the finish – not to hassle him again. I don’t know if the press conference behavior is reliable, but Button seemed to be clearly hiding an ocean of facts and just skimming through the surface while answering the questions.

          Ferrari once blatantly exercised team-orders with Schumacher and Barrichello to the boos of spectators, nowadays it is carried out subtly. The evil is still there, it seems.

          1. Maverick_23
            1st June 2010, 0:25

            I think you are looking far too hard at this and trying to find anything you can put it out there that theres a rift between the two.

            Button didnt defend the into turn 1 as Lewis positioned his car better going into the last corner got a better exit out of it. This meant Lewis had better speed on the straight and combined with the brief toe (and the red mist spilling out his helmet) the move was done and dusted way before anywhere near turn 1.

            Jenson said in a interview on the bbc post race that he was told to fuel save as early as lap 20.
            We all heard the team radio to Lewis which stated both cars needed to save fuel after the Red bull fun and games.
            Maybe there are different levels of fuel saving or maybe Jenson decided for a few laps he would push Lewis to try and win the race (i know i would).

            I believe that the team thought telling Jenson to save fuel was enough to get them both to cruise to finish. It turned out not be and after they showed the Redbulls how to overtake team mates i think Jenson was reminded more firmly of his fuel saving duties.

            Maybe im wrong but, that would explain why Lewis asked Jenson “what was that?” just before going to the podium and why Jenson was very eager to explain why, with lots of gestures and hugs for Lewis.

            I must also say though Jensons move deserves credit even though Lewis didnt expect him to attack, but the overtake by Lewis into turn 1 (and we can all agree non-fuel saving mode lol) was brilliant. Fighting for that inside line to the corner then hanging Jenson out on the rumble strip on the exit. Truly sublime!

        2. Keith, the majority of people on this blog actually don’t use any facts to support their arguement, how some of them critique Hamilton, you think did they actually watch the race they are commenting on.

          I hope you request the same from other bloggers, who put up baseless accusations.

          Saying that, the issue at Mclaren has nothing to do with colour, they wouldn’t invest in an individual who is black , if they were racist. I feel some of the contributers here are border line fruit & nutcases.

          We all have an opinion, about our teams & drivers, that is why we love F! and are slightly bias, but, come let’s leave racism out of this

        3. Jhonnie Siggie
          31st May 2010, 18:03

          I agree with you Keith in that these accusations do indeed appear to be baseless. I am wondering though why you would chastise this person for remaining anonymous. It is obviously so very common for people in the WWW sphere to use screen names instead of their real names. I suppose my only suggestion would be that people use their screen names consistently rather than use a one-off name to throw bombs.

        4. If you want facts all you need to do is look at Lewis’ career, in terms of media coverage, penalties and the plethora of odd strategy decisions that have come his way, not mentioning fans dressed in gorilla suits with cards saying “Hamilton’s Family”!!!!…I think you, and many of the ppl here, know what I’m talking about; passive racism.

          I’ve to sit and listen to commentary telling me how “smooth” Jensen is and how “aggressive” Lewis is…you look at bbc highlights and they are always skewed to show Jensen greatest bits and fall short when it comes to Lewis’ achievement…I like Jensen, but I dont think he is what we are being told he is…and thats fine, but when i see, and many others do too, that a great young mans career is being deliberately damaged to help sell the Jensen myth then sorry i will speak about it; its called democracy…

          Lewis was subdued yesterday on the winners stage because, as many of us did, he sensed that his team was trying to sell him short; He got called in to the pits early which allowed Sebastian to pass him and Jensen to get on his tail and then he was told to conserve fuel ie slow down which allowed Jensen to surprise him with a passing move, Jensen only got told to “conserve fuel” after he failed to pass Lewis and stay ahead….

          If you’re honest with your selves then you know there is a point to what i’m saying…its ugly but it needs to be said…and if i’m to be honest, i would say that i sincerely hope that i’m wrong…but we need to SEE that and at this point what we SEE doesn;t match up with what we’re being told!

          1. If you look hard enough for ‘proof’ of things, you’ll always find it.

            « I’ve to sit and listen to commentary telling me how “smooth” Jensen is and how “aggressive” Lewis is »

            Yes, those are different qualities the two drivers possess – your point being? If I wanted to show that Jenson Button is getting the short shrift I could point to the same quote as disparaging of his driving qualities.

            You’re really reading too much into things, man.

          2. Did you not see the times Vettel was setting on the new tires? They called him in because they were hoping they’d PREVENT Vettel overtaking him!

          3. This is how I interprute the Mclaren fuel saving situation and hope that someone will agree:

            I think Jensen took the Opportunity after both drivers were asked to save fuel. Jensen knew that both Cars were suppose to slow down to save fuel, it was obviously an indication to both driver that “dont fool around like the red bulls did”, obviously Jensen saw the opportunity and got pass Lewis which surprised him. Jensen was the type of cheeky guy that does this kind of thing (its perfectly fine, human nature.) It was fair for Lewis to take the position back, and they were great clean move too. By then, both divers got clear message to “SAVE FUEL” & “SAVE TYRES”…. game over.

        5. the Sri Lankan
          1st June 2010, 1:46

          easy there! clearly hes just sharing his opinion

      2. This a complete load of rubbish, why do you have to assume there is a conspiracy going on just because jenson prooving he’s a pretty good driver…and i’m a hamilton fan!

        1. the Sri Lankan
          1st June 2010, 1:50

          i dunno Herbie, but i TOOOOOOO get the feeling that McLaren’s bogging Hamilton down

        2. Jensen is a good driver, but different style to Lewis. And Lewis is definitely better in many aspects…

          Driver must take any opportunity seen…. overtaking Hamilton during fuel saving laps are fine… I mean, he would have done the same if it was a Ferrari in front whos saving fuel..

          Its not really conspiracy, rather it is an interpretation of what has happened.

      3. I agree, and you’re not the only one to say so. Ignore those people who will deny it – it is obvious to see. They favour the blonde blue eyed boy to the black man – very subtly, little things here and there, but it is happening. It makes me feel ill. No wonder Lewis looks so dismayed – he may say political things to the camera but he is no fool and knows exactly what is going on. I really don’t know what the answer is though – looks like Lewis will have to fight twice as hard as his sneaky teammate for the same results. Let’s hope Team Button don’t screw up too many of his pitstops or put his wheels on wrong or give different instructions over the radio too much in the future because we can all see what is in front of our eyes and it isn’t fair racing.

        Also, I find, while this blog is excellent, Keith is very Button-partisan. A bit like McLaren.

        1. And yet, it is only Hamilton fans that see this “obvious” bias. Believe me, I thought that Lewis would stomp all over Jenson this year. But he hasn’t, and I think that this is because Jenson is a lot better than I thought, rather than any sort of bias in the team.

          Funny how conspiracy theories only make sense when you want them to, isn’t it? After all, I’m sure McLaren didn’t favour Hamilton over Alonso….

          1. @Red Andy: Of course McLaren favoured Hamilton over Alonso – it was blatantly obvious. Alonso was the foreigner, Hamilton was tolerably English. But now, to pick up S Hughes’s line of argument, McLaren have a *real* Englishman in Button. Ergo…

          2. Osiris – All of which is rubbish, of course. Did David Coulthard get preferential treatment over Mika Hakkinen? And what about all those years when McLaren didn’t even have a British driver?

            I don’t we should waste any more time talking about McLaren being ‘in favour’ of Button until those who are peddling that line can provide anything more compelling than spurious conjecture to back it up.

          3. And most Hamilton fans don’t “see” it.

          4. True Icthyes, I wasn’t meaning to tar all Lewis fans with the same brush. Just that when the “obvious” bias of McLaren towards Button is pointed out, it always seems to be Lewis fans doing the pointing. And the same Lewis fans, at that. Odd.

        2. They favour the blonde blue eyed boy to the black man – very subtly, little things here and there, but it is happening. It makes me feel ill.

          As I said to LooseCruze, can you offer any proof to support what you’re saying?

          1. Keith: Kovalainen, Hamilton’s previous teammate, pointed out the pro-Hamilton bias (see http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/6473980/Heikki-Kovalainen-warns-of-favouritism-towards-Lewis-Hamilton-at-McLaren.html).
            Alonso had earlier complained that McLaren favoured Hamilton over him – see http://tvnz.co.nz/content/1180083.
            Now, go ahead and tell me those complaints were “rubbish”.

          2. I asked for proof of Loosecruze’s claim that McLaren are favouring Button because they “find a clean cut blond smoothie more acceptable than a black man as a champion”.

          3. Actually that is not quite what i said but never mind… racism today has moved on, its no longer in your face, so you asking for proof is just a way of wiggling away from asking the real questions…this is not fun, i dont particularly enjoy coming on here and provoking this but it is upsetting to see whats going on with Lewis…

            The facts are: Jensen is ahed of Lewis, he has won more races and seems to be getting better support from the team..now Lewis made Fernando look ordinary in his rookie year and practically owned Heikki for 2 yrs…Jensen is not a better driver than Fernando, so just by that simple example alone, and not mentioning Lewis’ amazing drives this season, one can sense something is not quite right here!!!!

          4. @LooseCruze: Jenson outperforming Lewis – for whatever reason – does not imply racism or even bias. The only person doing any “wiggling” is you, in failing to respond to Keith’s perfectly reasonable request that you substantiate your allegations with evidence. So, let’s make this clear: either provide evidence to support your claim that McLaren favour Button over Hamilton, or retract your baseless claims.

        3. Here, right. McLaren are a large and experienced enough organisation to realise that things like this could destroy the company, they dont favour race or natioanlity, they just want the two fastest drivers in their car, hell, if mr blobby was faster than hamilton or button they’d hire him.

          1. Nah Williams tried that but hes moved over to nascar now!

      4. isten, the colour of his skin has nothing to do with it, just elements of favouritism, the calls been made towards hamilton by the team when he is challenging for a win, when Button is challenging as well, seem to go Buttons way.

        If they think Hamilton will sit there and play second fiddle to Button, Whitmarsh has got it wrong. Well, Mclaren, you have now unleashed the road warrior, he will now just look out for himself, I just can’t see Button carrying the team to victory on his own.

        Hamilton, needs a manager to watch his back, if this carry’s on Hamilton will be off

      5. It’s a real shame that this is going on at McLaren, but there have been too many incidents in favor of Jensen to say it isn’t happening, like the extra pit stop for Lewis in Australia, sending Jensen out to do a qualifying lap early in Malaysia, but not Lewis, not giving Lewis a shot at Jensen in China, but manufacturing a situation in Turkey to give Jensen a chance to pass.
        It was pretty clear from their expression that neither Lewis nor Jensen was happy at the end of the Turkish grand prix. Lewis, for not being warned about Jensen closing in fast (despite both being told to conserve fuel), and Jensen for finishing behind Lewis.
        So far this year, Jensen’s wins involved a bit of luck (Vettel’s retirement) and clever strategy (although in both wins it was a huge gamble). He didn’t have to fight anyone for either win, and yesterday he fought and lost.

      6. Mr. Zing Zang
        1st June 2010, 5:37

        Well said LooseCruze. This is what I think too. Ron Dennis was more able to see the ability inside Lewis more than Whitmarsh. Whitmarsh is inhibiting Hamilton’s true potential. He doesn’t give the effort for Hamilton to blossom. Ron Dennis is a much more thoughtful man. Dennis knows what Hamilton has to fight against and he really went out of his way to help Hamilton. This Whitmarsh guy is only set on Button.

      7. Story just wont go away, will it? McLaren finally admit to screwing up. I’d love to see the responses of all those “Lewis was just being paranoid” posters on this list.



    2. I am surprised that nobody seems to have picked up on the last phrase of the engineers communication to Lewis about fuel saving , “It’s the same for both cars.” I immediately thought that phrase was the code for ‘no more racing between team mates’ and I think Lewis did too, hence his surprise at Jensons move and his subsequent subdued mood after the win. He clearly thought that his mate had pulled a sneaky on him and wasn’t happy given the good relationship they seem to have.

      I don’t believe their is a real pro-Jenson conspiracy at MacLaren but Whitmarsh does seem to be pushing a little too hard to ensure that the ‘this is Lewis’s team’ opinion does not get any more support.

      1. I think a much simpler explanation is that Jenson, who hasn’t been with McLaren anywhere near as long as Lewis, didn’t quite twig to what the radio messages meant.

        Until he got screamed at after the pass/re-pass anyway.

      2. When both cars are in fuel saving mode, you can’t race your team mate. I know it’s ‘racing’ but in this sport you shouldn’t attack your teammate when both have a big lead and need to save some fuel.
        I understand Lewis’ surprise. Many ppl now think Jenson was the quicker of the 2, but that isn’t clear as Lewis wasn’t going flat out (fastest laps of the race show this)

        Politics are much less with Withmarsh I’m sure of that. But I can understand ppl getting behind Jenson (or ppl thinking that the team is), because he’s a great guy. Very open and friendly (Reporters love him).
        But At Mclaren they know that Lewis is probably the biggest talent around.
        He could be leading the Championship with some margin!

        1. Electrolite
          1st June 2010, 22:49

          You people simply amaze me. F1 is a sport we obviously all love and I have absolutely no idea what on earth gives certain posters the desire, or right, to point fingers at people in the business – dreaming up conspiracy theories, leaning extremely on one side of the argument without providing any reason or evidence. Pretty much none of us know the people in the teams, how they work, the relationships OR policies (I could go on…).

          I think the media has got way too into some people’s heads and these so called fans ought to start enjoying the sport!

  2. Reading between the lines I think this has really gotten to Hamilton. He was ‘surprised’ enough not to enjoy the win, at least not immediately after the race.
    As I posted on one of the other articles though, given how Button slowed down so dramatically after Hamilton re-passed him, could he have even finished if he’d kept the position then kept Hamilton behind?

    1. He was suprised because he thought Jenson was saving fuel aswell as him, not because jenson had the agression to pull off a good move.

    2. You are right. He looked very miserable for someone who had just won a race

      1. Almost like Alonso at Singapore a couple years back! :P

        Sorry couldn’t resist. Pleast nobody start another argument ;)

  3. Well, did anyone catch what Button said to Hamilton in the room before the podium ceremony? He said “I was told….”

    1. Hamilton seemed very confused that Button had not had the same instructions to slow down as him. The reason for this is debatable. Perhaps Hamilton slowed down too much before finding a comfortable pace, and it was enough for Button to catch him and consider passing. Perhaps Button was told to hold back early in the race while the top 3 struggled, which was why he was in touch but not piling on pressure, and by the end he was able to afford some extra pace to attempt a pass. Perhaps there was general confusion from both parties about how much to slow down. Whatever the reason, I can’t imagine it is the ridiculousness that some have suggested, that Hamilton was told to slow down and Button not told this so as to give a win to Button. Regardless of any imagined driver preferance in a team (not that their would be any at such an early point in the season) this is clearly ridiculous, as it would put your drivers on for a potential collision, would strain relations and would simply make no sense after ‘manufacturing’ a driver (Hamilton) for over 10 years. Anyway, I imagine that Hamilton was trying to work out the reason why Button was close enough to pass.

      1. Maybe it’s because Hamilton of hamiltons driving style and he just used up more fuel and had to slow down a little early. There are a million good reasons, anyone who believes this is all a McLaren conspiracy against someone they have supported for years probably also believes in contrails!

        I just hope Hamilton is not as naive as some of his fans, because if he starts to believe this stuff it could effect his racing.

        1. Rubbish, did you not hear the radio transmission? It clearly said “save fuel, BOTH CARS ARE THE SAME”, which totally contradicts what you have just said.

          1. Just because Hamilton was told that does not mean Button was told the same thing. Did you hear the message to Button’s radio? NO you didn’t.

          2. In fact Hamilton stated that he was given a target time (which he felt was set too slow) and Button explained that he had NOT received a target time. Button only got a “save fuel” statement which he took as a warning not to overly waste fuel, but keep racing nonetheless.

      2. Jhonnie Siggie
        31st May 2010, 18:30

        Hamilton disses Mansell for his “manufactured” comment http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/236097/hamilton-responds-to-mansell-manufactured-comments/ and quite rightly so. Mansell should at least have gotten his facts right before he tried to discredit Lewis

    2. Something kicked off in the doorway the moment Hamilton and Button were about to step out to the podium – Button said something to Hamilton, Hamilton stopped and said something like “No, no, no” then it appeared Button had to explain himself and reassure Hamilton.

      This looked very strange and I got the impression something Jenson said had angered Hamilton. There was some disagreement. Lewis couldn’t mask it on the podium as the flags were raised, but eventually composed himself for the champagne and press photos.

      Even in the press conference something was amiss in Lewis’ demeanour, beneath the routine corporate speak.

      The whole episode look to me very similar to what happened at Red Bull, a clash of egos, but without the disastrous results.

      1. I would love to know what was discussed in the podium waiting area, as Crom says something was definitely amiss and Hamilton was not too chuffed on the podium, I also thought both drivers were a bit overly thoughtful in the press conference.

        1. I think I’ve managed to decipher what was going on:

          Before the podium and in the press conference Lewis was saying to Webber that Vettel had pulled the same sort of shenanigans with him.

          I think in their little chat before the podium, Jenson thought Lewis was talking about him and their little tussle and so started to explain that he hadn’t done anything untoward to catch Lewis up. Then Lewis told him he was talking about Vettel and also realised they were being listened to. When they got to the door I think Jenson wanted to clear things up anyway that he hadn’t done anything untoward to catch Lewis.

          That’s what it sounds like to me anyway.

          1. I think the reason Lewis didn’t look that happy was because after Jenson had told him that, he was a bit concerned that after the team had told him that they were effectively going to hold station for the rest of the race, Jenson had caught him. Which is understandable, especially given a few recent events, although I can’t seriously believe McLaren would purposefully engineer that sort of situation.

          2. Cool bit of deciphering!

          3. @TomD11: I was puzzled when one of Hamilton’s engineers came on the radio to tell Hamilton “both cars are the same”. There was no context, but I wonder whether he was talking about the Red Bulls (which were yet to press the self-destruct button at that point), or about the McLarens (which would indicate some doubt about the issue on Lewis’ part).

          4. @Osiris: I took that message to be about the McLarens and that they were tellig Lewis both cars had the same fuel issue or something along those lines and so he didn’t have to worry about Jenson coming at him. I just think somehow they were given different target lap times by the team and that’s what allowed Jenson to catch him after the Red Bulls took each other out.
            Perhaps the reason they had to tell him was from the splits or something Lewis could see that Jenson was catching him. Of course I could be completely wrong.

          5. osiris- of course there was context. Lewis you need to save fuel; both cars are the same (meaning your car and Jensons both need to slow equally to save fuel

          6. Yeah that sounds and looks about right. Nice work TomD1

  4. keith i think you should also include the fastest lap of each driver in the table.

    1. For the race? There’s no point, it’s more a reflection of whether a driver was still pushing at the end of the race than how fast they were.

      It might be worth adding a “fastest lap of the weekend” line, though.

  5. Arun Srini
    31st May 2010, 3:08

    i think ‘u need to conserve fuel’ from mclaran is the same as ‘u need to slow and allow the other driver to pass’ from ferrari, different words but same intentions, but since words speak more and intentions or meanings gets lost in air, schumi and ferrari are dark red horses while macca is a symbol of purity.. damn…

    1. gwenouille
      31st May 2010, 7:50

      Well, what words do you use to say ” you need to conserve fuel” then ???

      1. Well, “Slow and let the other driver pass”, obviously! :)

    2. I do believe they needed to save fuel, as Webber needed to do this aswell (he got the same message). So It sure sounds real to me!

  6. Prisoner Monkeys
    31st May 2010, 3:11

    Lewis, if you were surprised by Button’s move, you should probably wake up a little bit. There’s a reason why Button has a reputation as one of the best overtakers in the field, and the way he moved you off-line for turn thirteen is proof enough of that.

    1. Button has a reputation as one of the best overtakers in the field in your mind maybe …. I don’t think he impressed that much … especially compared to Hamilton…

      1. RandomChimp
        31st May 2010, 8:59

        “in your mind maybe”

        Perhaps you missed the whole of last season?

      2. spanish senora
        31st May 2010, 13:43

        I think JB is a bit of an opportunist driver and his overtaking has only improved since he became LH ‘s team mate.

    2. The only time Button ever pulled off some decent overtaking was in 2009 when he had a rocket for a car. Hamilton has proving several times that he can pass a car in front of him, and when Button is about to pass the same car, he can’t get past.

      1. Hamilton has proved*

      2. From that comment I can only assume you’ve been watching F1 only since Hamiltons arrival in ’07 when Honda were parading a complete dog of a car.

        Up until then, from 2000, and repeated last year, Button was one of the best overtakers on the grid, often seen sending one up the inside of Schumacher, Alonso, Villeneuve (not exactly hard that one), Montoya, Kimi… you name it, he did everyone at some point in those seasons.

        1. martin bell
          31st May 2010, 11:40

          Verstappen, Brazil 2000 sticks in my mind.

    3. Dude, what planet are you on? Button has the reputation as one of the best overtaker? You having a laff?

    4. LOL you are funny. Button has a reputation for being the best overtakers in the field???

      Which Formula 1 are you watching???

      1. Prisoner Monkeys
        31st May 2010, 11:20

        Formula 1 pre-2007. That Formula 1.

        1. Maverick_23
          31st May 2010, 12:39

          What are you talking about PM?
          He was surprised Jenson made a move because he was told by his race engineer that both cars had fuel issues, not because of his ability….! We all heard it, and Brundle commented on it. If you listened to his on-board after that then you must of heard him taking tons of revs off his upshifts and short shifting through the slower corners.

          We all know what JB is capable of most of all Lewis.

          I believe that it was one of those “do i, dont i” moments for JB and his racers instinct probably took over without thinking about the awkward post-race de-brief if he had made it stick.

          As for Lewis “waking up”. I think he was wide awake when he threw it up the inside of turn 1..

    5. @Prisiner Monkeys – Your statement is surely a wind up …isnt it?

      1. Another guy who missed the 2009 season, and all of Button’s key overtakings…

      2. Oh, and the 2000-2006 seasons, where Button extracted quite a lot (and raced well) in average cars.

  7. now heard it all–Button One of the best overtakers!!!!

  8. Maybe Lewis was “surprised” because McLaren messed up his pit stop and put him behind Vettel; Or maybe because he was the guy obligated to put pressure on Red Bulls until they self destruct while Jenson saved his tyres to attack him in the lasts laps; or maybe because McLaren told him to safe fuel three laps before Jenson, who use the extra power to attack him:

    (First minute on this interview)

    What we heard live in the TV was that BOTH had to save fuel at the same time — and Lewis had the same impression. So, maybe someone gave him misleading info from the pits…

    There something wrong with the way McLaren is managing the races strategy of their drivers this year.

    I´m “surprised”…

    1. “Cannot play media. Sorry, this media is not available in your territory.”

      Recap please!

    2. Isn’t it enough of a surprise to be told that both cars are in save fuel mode and when you stick to the target time they give you, your team mate is obviously NOT sticking to this same target time?

      I find it incredibly surprising that they give one driver a target time to slow down to and the other driver not.

      1. Electrolite
        1st June 2010, 22:55

        Forgive me if i’m wrong, but surely we only know what was broadcasted, or has been shown to the public?

        Also, all the target time and fuel messages could well be codes, again, something we don’t know.

  9. Jhonnie siggie
    31st May 2010, 4:19

    Number of races attended by Nicole=1.
    Number of races missed by Nicole=6.
    Number of wins by Lewis=1.
    Number of races won by Lewis with Nicole absent=0.
    Verdict=strong correlation between Nicole’s presence and Lewis winning races. Bring her to Canada Lewis :)

    1. No, Lewis please don’t bring her. Not if it means another gridwalk with her

    2. Yes please.
      Bring her to Canada

    3. This was the biggest FFS!! moment (and there were 2 of them) during the whole coverage… god, was she annoying… it was like, how dumb could someone get… who cares what she thinks, lets talk to someone interesting.

      …and then to butt in on EJ, DC & Jake to say what!?!… err, GO AWAY!!!

    4. Yes bring her to Canada – she enlivens the grid walk!!! And is your good luck charm.

      1. She is hot and kinda puts eveything into perspective.. Here we are all drumming along about F1 politics and this and that and there is a hot girl standing there, and suddenly it dawns on you… What the hell am I doing argueing about this when there is a hot girl there…

        I think having her there helps Lewis focus on what is important and let other things go by.

        1. Electrolite
          1st June 2010, 22:57

          I believe I recall Brundle asking her who she was backing in the race, during his walk on the grid. Does anyone else remember her holding up her arms in the air and answering, gleefully, ‘ENGLAND!! YEAH’


  10. I had my heart it was DEJA VU this time with the Silver car. There were some tension between them as they came to the green room before the podium celebration.But I think they will be OK but not the Red Bulls.

    How it would have been to see Nico fighting Schumacher & Alonso on Massa on the closing stages of the race?

    1. I wonder whether the word ‘SAVE FUEL’ were the coded word for both Hamilton & Button that both of them should follow team orders?

  11. Marc Connell
    31st May 2010, 7:27

    i wish there was more clean fights like this between teams. Yes i like mistakes but i hate it when its between 2 team members fighting to take the championship. Not directed at anyone.

  12. David Johnson
    31st May 2010, 7:37

    I’m “surprised” that everyone is trying sooo hard to put a negative slant on hamilton for yesterdays event…the guy raced his pants off the whole race…how close was hamilton to webber in comparison to button to vettel…he might of actually won the race had he not had a problem in the pits…gets vettel going off line in the wrong direction of the next corner when he tried to overtake… then he has to fend off an opportunistic move on him by a team mates thats been plodding along all race…all this off the back of a british racing icon slaging him off…I reckon thats enough to make any young man world champ or not, confused, a bit down and a bit “suprised”…don’t cha !!!

    1. Agree with you 100%. Strange things going on at Macca. First his botched pit stop gifting Vettel the jump on him and then mis-informing him to allow Jenson thru. Strange, very Strange indeed.

      1. Not strange – blatant favouritism. Lewis has just woken up and smelt the coffee and is working out in his mind how to handle it. He has been used to prejudice all his life, and is a strong person so hopefully this won’t break him.

        1. prove it, in all seriousness, please. What “facts” are you basing this on? And are your interpretations of these “facts” correct?, or is it a case of, if you squint your eyes enough (or even close them in this case), you see what you want.?

          This should not be difficult, as it is “blatant favourtisim” no??

          1. Whitmarsh is obviously more in favour of Button than he is of Hamilton. The way he keeps talking about Hamilton if he is some petulant child and when he talks about Button as if he’s some mythical racing god.

            Though I doubt that they would actually be that dumb to try to help Button to win races over Hamilton. Hamilton simply got unlucky and Button had a few good gambles. Also, Button has had his share of bad pitstops too. The pit crew at McLaren simply seems to be struggling as does their strategic department.

            How on earth they failed to get Hamilton in at the same time as Vettel is beyond me. Kravitz claimed that Red Bull came out and pitted Vettel when they saw the McLaren crew come out. Yet they failed to call Hamilton in on time?

          2. again, pat, your definition of the word obvious is different to mine.

          3. Well maybe you are simply less observant :)

            To me it’s quite obvious.

        2. Electrolite
          1st June 2010, 22:59

          Dude I’m beginning to think you ARE Lewis Hamilton.

  13. martin bell
    31st May 2010, 9:18

    I’m sure that the ‘fuel saving’ debate will run and run, but isn’t it possible that Mclaren went marginal on fuel in order to get close to the Red Bulls in qualifying, now that track position is everything? They simply had to be ahead of the Mercs on the grid. If one of the Mclarens had come out of turn one in first place, then this would have paid off, allowing them to control the race pace, and fuel consumption, thereafter. Plan B seems to have been to push RB as hard as possible, knowing they had some reliabilty issues, and then worry about fuel. Lucky for them, ‘brain fade’ intervened. Perhaps Mclaren are just trying to cover all bases, knowing that they don’t yet have the fastest car?

    1. In a word. No.

      All cars qualify with the bare minimum, they are then filled up for the race with as much fuel as their engineers think they will need. They apparantly used more than expected as they didn’t expect to be actually racing the Red Bulls for the whole race

      1. martin bell
        31st May 2010, 12:06

        But, “as much fuel as their engineers think that they will need” is a strategic choice, one of the few available this season. Where did you get the idea that they didn’t expect to be racing the Red Bulls? I was positing a theory, not stating my opinion as fact. I may, however, have not expressed what I meant very well!!!

        1. What I meant was they didn’t expect to be pushing the Red Bulls for every lap of the race until they crashed out. They will have assumed they will either get past or cruise behind, as it was Lewis was pushing like made to try and get past Web/Vet for 41 laps, which is probably about 30 more than they thought he’d be going at full chat for!

  14. RandomChimp
    31st May 2010, 9:42

    I thought Jenson had been told to save fuel before the tussle with Lewis, and I took that to be code for “don’t attack”, which disappointed me a little. Perhaps my memory fails me.

  15. I think the info they got was understood diferently by the drivers save fuel for hami was take it easy til the end anbd dnt worry button is also on the save fuel option so he wnt try to overtake…while button understood it to mean save fuel but still race to the end even overtakin lewis if u can

  16. I think many seem to miss the obvious in the whole Hamilton vs Button saga – simply, its not McLaren favouring button its the current rules as a whole, and the fact that the “best driver” is relative to current rules.

    In my view… Hamilton is faster on a single lap, but over a race under the CURRENT RULES, Button looks a better all round driver.

    Being fastest on a lap does not make you the best driver in F1.

    If the rules were to change then the “best driver” may change, even if no-one gets better or worse.

    1. @MM: How do “the current rules” translate into Button receiving a “conserve fuel” instruction 3 laps later than Hamilton, especially since (as the Red Bull radio confirmed) both cars were “short on fuel”?
      If you are going to fly Button’s banner, just do so openly – don’t hide behind “it’s the rules”.

      1. Hamilton had his engine turned up in the early part of the race trying to overtake Webber. Button made no real attempt to get past Vettel, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he’d used less fuel.

      2. Red Bull radio confirmed? – they certainly know less about the McLarens, than McLaren do – and both being short on fuel does not equal them being equally short on fuel. Hamiltons constant attempts to overtake and sitting on the rear of the RedBulls would almost certainly have used his fuel up much faster, so it would be completely logical for them to instruct button later.

        ps. I’m a Hamilton fan over Jeson anyday FYI. – I’m fed up with the moaning of people which effectively goes on the back of Hamilton as a driver.

    2. Well I don’t really think that’s true, in all the dry races so far Lewis has beaten Jenson (apart from Spain of course, for obvious reasons). Admittedly you could say it’s partly down to qualifying but that’s a key part of the race weekend.

    3. Really? Where did you get this stat from? You may want to look again at the average lap speed for all the races so far. You will see that Lewis is ahead of Jensen in all but 2 races this year.

  17. I was pretty sure there was contact between the two during Hamilton’s retaking of the lead. And then Button was half a second slower. Did anyone else notice that?

    1. martin bell
      31st May 2010, 11:01

      I think that everyone who watched the race noticed that, so what is the point you are trying to make?

      1. Well I think the point he was trying to make was whether that contact damaged Jenson’s car and caused him to go more slowly.

        I think it’s more a case of the team telling them both to just back off and conserve their cars. It didn’t look like there was any damage done.

        1. Yes, that’s my point. With Button being better at preserving his tyres, generally, and not having been the one pressuring the Red Bulls for most of the race, I would think it plausible that he could have taken the lead towards the end of the race, but for team orders and, I suspect, a little damage to his front wing.

          I could be completely wrong, it’s just conjecture.

  18. It’s clear that Button, though under instructions to conserve fuel, chose to take the chance to sneak up on an unwary Hamilton – hoping to take the flag.
    But the McLaren garage is beginning to sound dishonest: it appears that there are cases where Button has information that Hamilton does not have. This seems to have played a part in Button “making” the right calls regarding tyres in previous races: I recall Hamilton being ordered to pit in a previous race, and him wondering out aloud on radio, “whose freaking idea was that?”. I also recall Hamilton’s team ordering him to slow down in Monaco, and him asking “Do you guys want me to race or what?”. And then the very suspicious puncture when Lewis was out front and all alone.
    Finally, the Turkey race seemed to confirm these suspicions – McLaren seem determined to hand races to Button by ensuring Hamilton’s car cannot race, one way or the other. Come next season, Hamilton would be well advised to find a new team – McLaren now, clearly, belongs to Button. What a shame.

    1. Remembering only the times things have favoured button hardly makes for a all rounded argument. If anything it makes you appear to believe they should side with Hamilton over Button.

      Often top teams do split strategy calls where one car does one option and another does another option. In these instances every time Hamilton gets the aggressive drive strategy with fresh tyres and Button gets the keep your tyres and last longer strategy – anyone who wants to argue that’s the wrong way round must know little about F1.

      1. @MM: I would love to hear of an occasion when Button has deferred to Hamilton on team “orders”. And Button does not get the “aggressive” role because, as Schumacher has shown twice now, Button doesn’t do aggressive. That might be a strategy – it certainly could have worked in Turkey. But I dont pay money to watch that.
        And no – anyone who has a different opinion to yours is not automatically an F1 greenhorn. You’d be surprised.

        1. It doesn’t matter what you pay to watch, or want to watch, how they race is up to them.

          I’d love to hear of an occasion when Hamilton has deferred to Button on team orders?

          Im not saying people with different opinions are “F1 greenhorns”, what I said is what the F1 community commonly accept and that is Hamilton is a more aggressive driver than Button, and so my opinion was really stating that its completely logical for Hamilton to pit for fresher tyres and keep Button out if the team have decided they are going to split the strategy.

          I could understand people arguing that they shouldn’t have split the strategy, but that doesn’t seem to be what anybody moans about, people seem to suggest that they are deliberately giving Hamilton the “wrong” strategy.

    2. martin bell
      31st May 2010, 11:16

      Around this time last season, I feel that something changed in the Mclaren camp. Before that, it seemed unimaginable that Hamilton would ever drive for any other team. Wouldn’t you want to see that happen someday, to see how he would perform in a team that wasn’t entirely built around him? There is a certain fascination with watching Alonso struggle this year, and seeing how he copes with that. There is no conspiracy going on at Mclaren, just Lewis finding out that he’s not at the centre of the universe, something we all do at some time in our lives.
      F1 drivers,unfortunately, have to do it public.
      Remember the old joke; “Daddy, when I grow up, I want to be racing driver.”
      “You can’t do both, son.”

    3. McLaren seem determined to hand races to Button by ensuring Hamilton’s car cannot race, one way or the other. Come next season, Hamilton would be well advised to find a new team – McLaren now, clearly, belongs to Button. What a shame.

      Have you forgotten Button’s dash failing at the start of the Spanish Grand Prix? And a piece being left in his radiator at Monaco ending his race pretty much straight away?

      1. Agree, though i have to admit something does seem strange. I can’t be sure what but it does seem to be to Hamilton’s detriment. But yeah, people do seem to be explaining Hamiltons misfortune with conspiracy, whilst overlooking Button’s as merely bad luck.

    4. While agreeing that the team have made some doubtful decisions with regard to Lewis this season I still am reluctant to believe they would risk team points to favour Jenson at this stage.

      However I found the team engineers statement that “both drivers were given the same lap time targets and Jenson managed to close up on Lewis” very confusing. In issuing the ‘same lap time’ instruction the team clearly intended that the cars would hold station. It is unlikely that Hamilton would have been unable to meet the slower time so how did Button close up if he was following the instruction and observing the same lap time?

      Lewis said afterwards that he had been “given too slow a time” so there may have been an engineers mistake. If not, then it would seem that Jenson was indulging in rather unsporting opportunism, which I would rather not believe.

  19. Button had been sitting pretty in 4th just biding his time, conserving tyres and saving fuel, but the pace of the fight at the front was so hectic that they were all marginal by the end.

    I believe Button had more fuel then Hamilton by the end and the move was simply that he was able to run faster, Hamilton didn’t expect it as they were “fuel saving”, but Button had been doing that since the first pit stop and obviously was not as marginal.

    After that lap Button dropped off and held station behind Hamilton, simply because the team had made it clear they were not to race… “fuel critical” = “team orders” by another name.

    No problem with that, its not preferential treatment, just the team stroking it home for a 1-2. Just a shame Button didn’t wait until turn one to take Hamilton, less chance of Lewis coming back at him straight away.

    1. Another Button fanboy :( , if Button had succeeded in his sneaky move to win the race, people like you would hail him for his “intellingence” (doh) But now that he failed woefully you construct a myth around hie average driving.

      LH watch your back at McLaren as from now!!

      1. BBQ2, you’re wrong on all counts.

        1. Well you are obviously wrong too.

          Hamilton was told to drive to a target laptime. So he does that and to his amazement he finds out thet Button does not have this target lap time. When in fact they told Hamilton over the radio that Button also was saving fuel.

          Either his engineer is incompetent or there is a conspiracy going on. Either way you cannot fault Hamilton for being taken when he’s expecting not to be attacked when trying to save fuel nursing the car home with a 30 second lead …

          1. “either his engineer is incompetent or there is a conspiracy going on”

            Oh really????? this is the only, the only, explanation???

            How do you know that button did not have a target laptime? Are all radio communications broadcast to the Public?? -no

            Did button hang back from hamilton and the redbulls throughout the race and thus ensuring the very reasonable possibility that he had more fuel hamilton and better tyres? – yes

            Did you not hear them tell button to save fuel well before this whole “conspiracy” was suppose to take place? to use the very popular word at the moment “obviously”

            Could of button, with a slightly less critical fuel situation simply catch button, and then the competitive instincts of people who have had to compete for every step of the way to simply get to F1 take over? and hence he saw an opportunity and took that opportunity.

            Hamiloton did not look happy on the podium, and even admitted as much in a post race interview. This has been claimed as “evidence” of a conspiracy. Well that is a very, very low threshold of evidence. Here is a much more reasonable, and likely, explanation:
            Hamilton went through the whole Alonso “situation” before. This would have been incredibly stressful for all the team – Hamilton, Alonso, Denis, Whitmarsh etc. There were a lot of pundits predicting that Button was entering the “lions den, lewis’s team” he is going to get thrashed like no tomorrow. Some very famous people, who’s opinion frankly carries more weight than the collective opinions of us, such as the great and overall legend Jackie Stewart, publicly said the Button going to Mclaren was a mistake. Well so far, it has not been. Button has out performed a lot of peoples expectations. In fact- he is leading him in the championship at the moment.
            Button is no pushover. He joined a team when everyone said don’t go there. He is also no afraid to do a move on his teammate when he is leading the race close to the end. Hamilton has a sense of deja vu, a tough fight with a tough teammate and hence the reservation on the podium. He knows how tough it was last time.

          2. Button said he didn’t get a laptime. Just a generic message that he needs to conserve a bit of fuel

            It’s in the post race press conference.

          3. So a specific lap time to save fuel vs. a generic message to save fuel. Wow – that’s a slam dunk.

    2. This is what I think it happened, too, although I’m glad that Hamilton took the flag. He kind of deserved it…

    3. This is becoming more like a Prost/Senna situation every race as far as I can see: all the armchair ‘experts’ declaring how Button(Prost) is sneaky or underhand because he drives thoughtfully and often unspectacularly, except when he needs to, while Senna(Hamilton) is the etroverted aggresive driver who of course must be the fastest and the winner out of the two, unless of course the team are going behind his back to sabotage him. Prost(Button) is ‘boring’ because he doesn’t overdrive or ruin a set of tyres while Senna(Hamilton) will go on a charge from the back of the grid into the points.

      All the conspiracy theorists need to grow up a bit, and have a think about why a team would develop a driver for ten years only to hire someone else and wreck their efforts because they are racist?! But of course, Button’s radiator in Monaco was just a smokescreen, wasn’t it? Give me strength…

      1. “All the conspiracy theorists need to grow up a bit, and have a think about why a team would develop a driver for ten years only to hire someone else and wreck their efforts because they are racist?!”

        Thank you, this is what i’ve been trying to tell the fanboys.

  20. Several comments have been removed from this thread. Insults are not allowed: F1Fanatic Comment Policy

Jump to comment page: 1 2 3

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments are moderated. See the Comment Policy and FAQ for more.