Adjustable rear wings confirmed for 2011 – but only for overtaking

Debates and pollsPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Drivers will be allowed to adjust their rear wings to overtake in 2011
Drivers will be allowed to adjust their rear wings to overtake in 2011

F1 cars will get adjustable rear wings in 2011 – but drivers will only be allowed to use them to overtake the car in front.

Should adjustable rear wings be allowed in 2011?

  • Yes - drivers should be allowed to use them at any time in the race (48%)
  • Yes - but drivers should only be allowed to use them to overtake in races (21%)
  • No - adjustable rear wings should not be allowed at all in races in 2011 (32%)

Total Voters: 2,015

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Speaking during the Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Phone-In the team’s engineering director Paddy Lowe confirmed the adjustable rear wings would be allowed as F-ducts had been banned for 2011.

Lowe said drivers will be allowed to use them at any time during qualifying.

But in the races drivers will not be allowed to use them in the first two laps. After that they will only be allowed to use them if they are within one second of a rival car as Lowe explained:

[It’s] been agreed to ban the ‘F-flap’, or ‘F-duct’, system. But in their place we will have an adjustable rear wing. The flap will be adjustable by the driver.

You can run it however you likes in qualifying which will allow you to get a better lap time using it wherever you can. In the race you can’t use it for the first two laps at all.

But after that if you’re within a second of the car in front then you will be able to deploy it. That will be very interesting. It’s a FOTA initiative to help improve the show and I think it’s very exciting.
Paddy Lowe

Lowe also confirmed FOTA had agreed to let teams use Kinetic Energy Recovery Systems in 2011 having suspended their use this year.

Read more: F1 2011 Season

194 comments on “Adjustable rear wings confirmed for 2011 – but only for overtaking”

  1. Very stupid idea, this will make artificial racing. I would like to see overtaking in F1 but from driver skill, not one driver lucking out because of a adjustment to there rear wing when there rival cant.

    1. First of all, they don’t have unlimited access to it. The drivers have to be in a certain zone before being able to use it – within a second of the guy in front, which is generally accepted to be the place where the wake off the car in front makes it hard to pass. The drivers has to be skilled enough to get to the point where he can use it first, and it goes without saying that the system doesn’t guarnatee an overtake.

      Secondly, there are problems with the rules as a whole. Big problems. FOTA want to sort them all out, to produce a racing series that encourages driver skill and generates more overtaking. While they’ve taken big steps towards that this year, these are not problem that can be solved overnight. I would rather they generate “artificial” overtaking and produce an exciting race from it than to stick to the “natural racing only” party line and give us a few season of processional races.

      1. but now we’ll never again see the exciting laps when a faster car is trying to get passed a slower car lap after lap. the faster one can just breeze by with no probs and never be caught back.

        1. for me, watching a guy that has front running pace,stuck behind someone in,say 10th-13th,is NOT what i call exciting.frustrating maybe.and just highlights the problem`s that modern f1 aero brings.only imo.

    2. Applying restrictions to its use is a terrible idea – personally i would love to see drivers utilising all their skills to maximise the wings potential without restriction… Imagine lewis and fernando for example, charging as far as they dare into a braking zone, trying to outdrag each other, seeing how late they can bring the grip back in. It would reward the brave and the skillful… much better than kers if you ask me.

      1. That’s not going to happen. If you make the system available to both drivers, all it will take is for the both of them to activate it at the same time, and neither will get closer to the other.

    3. you right fordsrule i voted no but i wouldnt mind if they only could use to overtake but that is too complex the worst choice is probably yes at any time cause it will turn redundant

    4. This rule is absolutely absurd, and if implemented, F1 will lose me as a viewer. You might as well put in Mario Kart style bananas and blue shells – it’s a complete and utter farce.

      I mean… god, the whole thing is so horrifying. It’s an insult to motorsport, and it’s incredibly depressing to me to see that such a large percentage of readers here think it’s a good idea to alter car performance to create artificial overtaking. Hell, if you’re going to do this, why not have a guy up in the control room with little dials for each car that adjust the horsepower? It’d be as respectful to the sport and more honest to boot…

      1. it’s incredibly depressing to me to see that such a large percentage of readers here think it’s a good idea to alter car performance to create artificial overtaking.

        I don’t agree. I think the “artificial” part of the rule is the stipulation that it can only be used by the attacking driver, not the defending driver. The majority of voters – almost 80% at the time of writing – don’t want that.

        1. Well, the idea that 20% do want to see it is depressing.

          Yes, the artificial part is specifically giving an advantage to cars behind.

          The obsession with overtaking is itself destructive, though. Has anyone ever done a study on how much overtaking there IS, and how much there used to be, or is everyone just reminiscing about the good old days? I recall seeing some old recap movies about the ’60s races, and there’d be parts like, “The order remained unchanged for the next 20 laps, with blah blah two minutes ahead of blah blah” – huge time gaps, lots of mech failures causing 5-car races…

          I think that rose colored glasses are causing people to turn the sport into a farce in the name of fixing something that was never broken.

          1. thing is, with the performance drop off,of an f1 car following another,the following car actually has LESS performance,a movable rear wing might even things up,lets wait and see…. hell ,with KERS as well,i cant wait,ROLL ON 2011 SEASON!!

        2. maestrointhesky
          24th June 2010, 12:35

          I thought that whole the reason movable rear wings were banned in the past was that the the potential failure of the device and the subsequent failure to re-engage downforce when arriving at high speed corners would result in a catastophic accidents – something that cannot be attributed to the ‘F-Duct’ as this has no moving parts. Permanantly legalising the ‘F Duct’ would have been my preferred solution.

      2. Overtaking is to motor sports, what goals are to football. Everyone loves seeing overtaking. Most races drivers cant overtake due to the dirty air of the car in front or track characteristics. I’m up for all devices such as KERS and adjustable rear wings, or any device that helps the car behind overtake. However, the one second rule and option of using the wing adjustments on certain parts of the track are unnecessarily complex and ‘videogamish’.
        Another solution for the rear wing scenario would be better.

  2. I don’t get the point of what advantage will they get if they use it anytime other then when they are overtaking?

    1. In qualifying, you mean? Greater straight-line speed. Basically it’s just an electronically-operated version of the current F-ducts, except in races drivers can only use it when they’re within a second of another car.

      1. Sorry I wasn’t clear with my question.
        What I really wanted to know is that why will the rule state that they can use it when they’re within a second of another car, why not anytime they like.Cause it will be very confusing as when to use or not.

        1. This throws up more questions the more I think about it:

          Will the drivers have to monitor their positions relative to other drivers in real time using a radar on the car?

          How are they supposed to know when they go from 0.999 seconds to 1.001 seconds behind?

          If a car is overtaken then at what point can they drop their wing, because they are now the car behind, and when does the overtaking car have to move the wing back up again, because they are officially in front?

          There needs to be hard and fast rules because there will be infinite interpretations of this and potentially massive arguments.

          1. Pablepete80
            23rd June 2010, 11:51

            my thoughts exactly. Stupid rule thats going to bring up loads of issues on correct / incorrect application of the wing. I can see this rule being amended a few times.

            Either have it or not. Simple??

          2. All the cars have trackers so teams can see there positions on the track. Surely these will be used as a rolling tally of how far behind they are from the car in front. And then there would be a programme only allowing the wing to be used when time < 1 second. I think it's a bit unfair, as the idea is to remove the effects of dirty air, but to do that effectively the drivers would have to increase the angle at every corner, but then reduce it again between every corner so the drag doesn't prevent him overtaking into the following corner. Plus, dirty air is bad in corners, but on a long straight the following driver could reduce their wing angle enough to replace the effect of an F-duct- which is an unfair advantage over the car in front. Seems far too complicated.

          3. I can’t see how the rule would allow a car to revert their wing angle once level with another car. So the driver has to change back to the most appropriate wing angle for the track, before they’re level. So it could introduce a lot of artificial passes and repasses in the midfield, letting the faster cars infront drive away…

          4. Agreed, and also if it is controlled by computers, then surely:
            – Car overtakes with boost, looses boost.
            – Car overtaken now behind so gets boost.
            – Car overtakes with boost. rinse and repeat.

            Have I missed something out of the rules here or do I suspect that we will get cars changing position like this three or four times on the big straights? (Malaysia, China etc)

          5. @Chippe, I think you’re right. In general now when an overtake move happens, it sticks. I think next year we could start seeing drivers swap position only to swap back immediately…

          6. Here’s another question Rob,

            If Hamilton and Button find themselves back in 4th and 5th place, can they ‘as a team’ swap positions back and forth on the straights so that they gain a lap time advantage by using their adjustable wings 2-3 times per lap?

            Would this even work? In theory it might, no?

        2. Drivers will see a blink or warning if you like on their panel through ECU when they are allowed to use that hole. It will be electronically monitored and managed so confusion will only be valid for us. I hope they would put another graphic just they did with KERS in 2009 so that we can understand whether and who would use it.

          1. By the way, it’s strange that McLaren guy said it was “confirmed” when WMSC, the regulatory body, will meet today to duscuss so called rule change. I wonder if WMSC would automatically approve any changes that are done by teams or FOTA or TWG.

          2. I would assume that with all the teams using a standard ECU it would be set up so that if a driver tries to use it when they are outside of the permissible usage zone then it simply won’t activate…

        3. Rob: “If a car is overtaken then at what point can they drop their wing, because they are now the car behind, and when does the overtaking car have to move the wing back up again, because they are officially in front?”

          That is a very good point, how do they decide when an overtake is “done” – if they have to wait until the next corner (like with giving back position), on most races that might mean at least half a lap of non-overtaking as there are only a few overtaking spots. Will be crucial to get this clear, or it will cause a lot of trouble.

          1. Presumably it will use the sector times to judge how close they are so at each sector point it will reset whether they are allowed to use it or not.

    2. There wont be any point to it at all, thats why it should only be used to overtake or else scraped.

      Im in favour of anything that encourages overtaking and think it should be introduced.

  3. Everyone prepare for an onslaught of penalties after next year’s races have finished due to drivers using them at the wrong time.

    1. Here Here Neil – I can also foresee an onslaught of penalties for deploying at the wrong time, If your going to have it, just let it be used whenever, Its all getting a bit “Only on a Tuesday if you’re wearing green socks and humming a Robbie Williams song on the team radio with more than 3 dead flies on your visor” Can visualise the after race fly autopsy already!!!

  4. total loss in bringing out the aggression in drivers

  5. Why not have a push to pass? They seem to be trying to hard to not make overtaking like a gimmick that they’ll try something radical that probably won’t even work at all.

  6. I don’t like this. Either everyone should be able to use it all the time or no-one should. Hopefully the teamsw ill all run KERS next year so that the defending driver will actually have a chance.

    Also I sense a bit of trouble with the ruling that it can only be used when you’re within one second. How will that be policed? Based on the previous split time? Or do teams/race stewards have access to a real time, constant gap? Because if someone is half a second behind the guy in front, messes up the next corner and drops to 1.5 seconds back they could use it to get back in touch. A bit ambiguous for me…

  7. Apart form Bahrain most if the races have been relatively exciting. F1 doesn’t need to change the cars. They need to improve the tracks. And maybe the tyres but others than that don’t make racing artificial

  8. That just feels so artificial it’s ridiculous. Why do we need adjustable rear wings in the first place? And am I being stupid in asking why they’ve scrapped the F-Duct?

  9. GeordiePorker
    23rd June 2010, 11:29

    How is this bad news? It means that drivers will have to demonstrate an additional piece of skill in order to overtake. Sounds like good news to me. However, I do share Neil’s view that there may be some post-race penalties owing to slight mis-judgments in the timing of theirs use…

    1. Oh, it’d good because it requires more skill? Why not require them to drive with one hand and juggle an apple with the other? Maybe they should have to sing for a panel of judges in mid-corner… that would require a LOT of skill.

      Do you even know what racing IS?

  10. Awful, out of all the possible ways to improve F1, this is the best for more overtaking????

  11. im considering not watching f1 if this is true, its soooo artificial. BOO

  12. i wasn’t aware that drivers lost a significant amount of rear downforce when following another car – although they must surely lose some. but the complaint has always been the loss of front downforce and massive understeer, surely?

    these measures are ridiculous baby steps, either way. just go all out and reduce the size of the wings by 2/3, and up the size of the tyres and stop tinkering with a system that doesn’t work.

    1. kers, adjustable front wings, adjustable rear wings, f-ducts.

      technical gimmicks.

    2. theRoswellite
      23rd June 2010, 19:23

      …with mattclinch…in total agreement.

      …and just as the 3 podium drivers begin to take their positions amid the roars of the crowd…

      …a race steward walks out to announce, and switch, the positions 1 and 2, after a computer check shows he had a rear-wing activation of 1.4 seconds on lap 46…the crowd is hushed, but then breaks into cheers…then..

      …a second steward rushes out with the fourth place finisher and hustling the second place finisher, the former winner, off stage, he places the fourth place finisher into the third position and the third place driver on to the second place stand…

      ..but then a third steward runs out…..

      It should be hilarious….so why won’t I be laughing?

  13. I fear F1 will become like arcade car-racing video games, where you press ‘boost’ buttons and get perks to take advantages over other drivers, reducing its credibility.

    I’m all for overtaking, but I say change the tracks and not the cars. Valencia, Budapest and the sort are just not good for overtaking, whereas old-school tracks like montreal and monza, with long straights and tight braking zones lend themselves to better races.

  14. How exactly will the driver behind know he is within a second of a rival? Must he use the old “one hippopotamus” rule against an outside reference point?!!?

    1. Tom Chiverton
      23rd June 2010, 11:36

      Yeah, that’s the problem innit ! And the slew of complaints, late penalty applications etc. etc.

    2. He’ll probably get a notification in the car, they have the small screen with speed and gear and everything, there will maybe be a light or something, that will tell the driver he may use it.

      But I think it’s pointless – the driver in 2nd place will wait until the last lap and then try to overtake for the win (I guess).

    3. Brilliant!
      The rule should actually state “when the car is one hippopotaus away from the car in front”

      Here’s my fear: if this system turns out to make it much easier to make a pass, then won’t the driver behind towards the end of a race just sit there in position until the final long straight so that the other car doesn’t have time to use their own adjustable wing and re-pass?

  15. This is just faffing around in the absence of anyone taking on the aerodynamics issue properly – how is this going to aid overtaking? This will surely only allow cars with an equal or better engine that the car in front to overtake because it is solely about eliminating downforce to gain top speed, which is useless in cornering. Rather than seeing exciting and risky moves under braking overtaking will be limited to long straights where one car moves past another with minimal fuss, and surely a cunning driver in 2nd place will just sit behind the leader until the final lap, drop the wing and overtake leaving the opponent defenceless and with no time to try and counter-attack.

    In a train of cars everybody except the lead car can use it and nullify any advantage, and if they could be used at any time then there is no difference between them and an f-duct!

    1. here here. well said.

  16. I still think that the fluidic switch of the f-duct is saver than a mechanical solution. Or is the electronic switch effectively replacing the drivers direct control, but using a fluidic switch to do the job, because of somewhat misplaced fear that drivers have to move to much to activate the thing otherwise?

    It is silly to ban the f-duct but then mandate something similar, but seemingly inferior. The “only use for overtaking” is artificial, and should not be needed. I am glad that at least they would be able to use it in qualifying though.

    1. I still worry about drivers letting their competitors past before the final corner so they can then retake on the straight, to avoid losing the position on that straight themselves. … Sort of the question of how easy it should be to pass: I want it to be a battle, if every one can always pass, then strategy and timing becomes the overriding factor, not speed or driving ability.

  17. So the driver in front (defending) will also be allowed to use it, right?

    I mean I don’t really see the point, it just adds unnecessary work load to the racing which doesn’t really have anything at all to do with driving. They want to bring F1’s relevance to the road back but they so silly things like this to “spice up the show”

    KERS is good enough, and it is also relevant to road car technology. This wing idea is dumb. Especially the whole “not in the first two laps, only when you’re a second within a rival” it’s just too artificial.

    1. So the driver in front (defending) will also be allowed to use it, right?

      No.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        23rd June 2010, 12:51

        So if he is not allowed to use it and I am, then my braking distance for the hairpin ahead will be considerably longer than his as I have less downforce. So I will have to brake earlier, which means I will not be able to vertake by outbraking into a corner. I will only be able to overtake while going along the straight and getting my overtaking down way before the braking zone.
        Not good.

        1. No, the computer system allows to activate the SRW system if the last intermediate is less than 1 sec (or whatever they will agree on if that wont be enough), and when the driver have used it it will be automatically electronically disallowed or disabled when the driver deploys the brakes, but he does not need to wait till that point, he can turn the system on or off when these rules mentioned above applies.

  18. Anyone who says they can use it at any time would be missing the point of the system. It’s to improve overtaking, if every one could do it all the time, the field would be evened out and there would be no point in it. It’s like everyone having the F-Duct, it ruins it’s purpose, to give the driver using it an edge on the driver he’s trying to pass.

    1. Except for differences in implementation making one better than the others system (see KERS last year for examples of that). Which for me are part of the engineering of F1, but I do understand that this might end up costing a lot of money developing then.

      By making it a standard, presumably in the ECU, it does indeed become nothing but an “push to pass” equivalent, but by a different name.

      1. Exactly, it’s just push to pass with a different name. Don’t get me wrong, I am all for improving ways to overtake, but not by gimmicky temporary solutions. Address the problem properly and devise a complete solution which improves the racing, not ‘the show’.

  19. Does this apply only for the following car to prevent defensive use of the adjustable wing? Otherwise it’s pointless as proven with two cars with KERS.

    If it’s the other way round, we might as well save the money and get the drivers to sit in Sega’s Virtua Racing where the last car gets a speed boost over the leading car to provide closer racing and more overtakes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtua_Racing

    Either let then have and use it when they want or don’t let them have it. It’s F1 and not a computer game.

    1. They can only use it if they’re within one second of another car so they can’t really use it ‘defensively’. Though if you imagine three cars together, each within a second of the other, the second car can use it to overtake the first car which will also help it defend against the third car.

      1. But the 3rd car would maybe have the benefit of a double hole punched in the air by the 2 cars in front AND be able to deploy it’s own rear wing adjustment.

        Let’s just hope one of these rear wing adjustmters doesn’t malfunction and not re-set at the end of a straight like the the straight in Canada the cars will end up sideways into the pitlane at a pretty fast rate of knots

  20. Sounds like,
    Wing on
    wing of

    1. “Where did all these cars come from?”
      “Detroit”

      Seriously, this sounds like a wank, adding more complicated rules (and loopholes to exploit). Just keep the f-duct and forget the adjustable wings

      1. I agree with this.

  21. If everyone uses them there there is no benefit to anyone. If you’re about to be overtaken then you use your wing and the guy behind uses his… how does that help ?

    All it does is add complexity and expence without any benefit to the racing, its as stupid an idea as KERS.

    1. Supposedly you can only use it if you are overtaking, not defending.

  22. Using this when there is only a 1 second gap is pretty retarded. Either have it adjustable throughout the race, or nothing at all.

  23. Pedro Andrade
    23rd June 2010, 11:57

    I don’t like this idea at all. It’s way too gimmicky, and how are they going to police that? Besides, if KERS comes back next year, isn’t it going to counter that rear wing boost? Imagine the car behind gets within 1 second of the one in front – he only has to press the KERS and the advantage will be negated. Even if the 6 second KERS use is maintained, most of the time there’s only one place on the circuit where overtaking really is possible, so the 6 second boost is enough.

  24. Of course one of the other factors preventing overtaking is the rev limiter…. at the moment how can you get past if you’re limited to the same revs as the guy in front ?

    Remove the rev limiter and let teams fight for the overtaking move while risking blowing their engines up. That would bring out different strategies and we’d get more action in the races albeit at the expence of everyone finishing in a procession line astern.

    1. unfortunately, you are mislead. The rev limiter takes the engine to top speed, which can be adjusted. So teams have the option of having more headroom at the expense of acceleration, just as any gear ratio setup does. The McLaren’s for example do seem to only JUST hit their rev limiter at the very end of the long straights, whereas i saw the red bulls seemingly topping out way before the last chicane in Montreal, meaning that they concentrated more on acceleration to overcome the F-duct than McLaren did. McLaren’s catch up at their top end, whereas Red Bull are faster to get to their slightly lower top end.

  25. Pablepete80
    23rd June 2010, 12:00

    At which point does the lead car become the chasing car and what happens then !!!! This is a joke!

  26. Only one word needed: Farcical.

  27. I think they’re trying so hard to bring in overtaking that bnow they’ve resorted to gimmicks to try to comabt the rules.

    All this results in artificial driving. Giving a bonus to the car behind. It’s a nice idea but should be used at any time. Let the drivers use their brains instead of holding their hands to guide them to overtake.

    I think overtaking should be improved but I don’t think it’s a do or die for the sport. F1 has never been about mass overtaking. Watch a review from the late 80s and you’ll see the Prost-Senna drama, Mansell on his ‘charge’ a term probably coined for him and Brundle and de Cesaris in hole heaps of trouble. Watch the full race and you’ll sit through hours of a procession too. My point is, that overtaking was an issue then as it is now. It was on the forum the other day about Hunt saying how hard new tracks were to pass on. Things haven’t got much better and it’s good they’re working on it but it should be tackled right and they do have time to make whatever improvements they want. To be honest though, the processions should just how hard these guys race and makes any overtaking a lot more special and something to be savoured.

  28. To all the nay-sayers out there – this device only affords drivers an extra 15km/h when passing. It’s not like they’re getting an extra 50km/h to play with. It’s both intended and designed to facilitate overtaking, but not replace driver skill.

    1. Only 15kph? The difference between the slowest and fastest cars through the speed trap in qualifying at Montreal was 16.2kph.

      1. According to Autosport, that’s what the teams are estimating. Like I said, it’s designed to aid a driver in overtaking, not replace him.

        And I believe the speed trap in Montreal is located at one of the fastest points of any circuit on the calendar.

        1. Sorry I may have been unclear – my point was that 15kph isn’t insignificant at all.

  29. I think it’s a waste of resources really, although the technical challenge sounds interesting.

    there is the list of problems i have with such a system:

    1-not all teams will be able to develop a system that is as effective as their rivals, therefore gains will be relative to teams strength, nullifying in some cases their advantages.

    2-focus should be on a permanent decrease in down-force so that the drive has more to do in keeping the car planted around the corner, rather than have to modifying it as he goes.

    3-some drivers will use it when they are not supposed to and that will open a whole new can of worms in terms of penalties and what ifs.

    4-something might go wrong. don’t remember who, but the adjustable front wing on one car got damaged some races ago and compromised the driver’s whole race. the less complex the systems, the less things can go wrong.

    I know F1 is about cutting edge, but altering a car’s aerodynamic properties at the flick of a switch is not nice.

    I have my reservations on the F-Duct, but in the McLaren application i thought it was a genius solution with no moving parts, taking an advantage of the concept without adding complexity of operation.

    1. 1-not all teams will be able to develop a system that is as effective as their rivals, therefore gains will be relative to teams strength, nullifying in some cases their advantages.

      There is talk that the regulations dictating the rear wing development will be as strict as they come. There will be little room for development, so the system will remain constant.

      2-focus should be on a permanent decrease in down-force so that the drive has more to do in keeping the car planted around the corner, rather than have to modifying it as he goes.

      Aerodynamics is king in Formula 1, and the teams know it. They will fight to keep every scrap of it they can. Until the time comes when that changes, other solutions will need to be found because the eams know that more downforce equals a bigger advantage, ad that’s not something they are going to give up readily.

      3-some drivers will use it when they are not supposed to and that will open a whole new can of worms in terms of penalties and what ifs.

      The system will only become available once a driver is within one second of another. Until then, he can press the button as much as he wants, but it will not do anything. If he falls more than a second behind the car in front with the wing in the ‘on’ position, it will most likely return to the default setting.

      4-something might go wrong. don’t remember who, but the adjustable front wing on one car got damaged some races ago and compromised the driver’s whole race. the less complex the systems, the less things can go wrong.

      Hey, a gearbox might seize up and compromise a driver’s race. Or an engine. Or the brakes. There are any one of a thousand things that could go wrong, thus wreckig a driver’s race for him. If anything, an adjustable rear wing is less of a risk than an adjustable front one because it’s difficult to damage the rear wing the way it is the front. Any damage to a rear wing as a result of contact with another driver is liekly to be race-ending, and whose fault is that?

  30. lol good concept, bad execution. i think there are far too many rules that need rules to govern the first set of rules to make this work. at the end of the day i don’t see the adjustable rear wing making any difference to the viewer….just like how no one notices when a driver adjusts the front wing. also like mark said…if everyone uses it, there be no benefit to anyone…i expect more of the same if everyone uses KERS next year as well.

  31. Ok, so Lewis comes to the main straight on Montreal circuit right on Teflonso’s tail, and overtakes him easily by using this new shiny toy on his steering wheel….What next? Teflonso can use it again to overtake Lewis, sure, but since they cannot re-adjust the wing after the passing maneuvre for the twistier parts of the track…

    Everyone starts the race with maximum downforce and by the end of it all everyone has minimum downforce on their wings? They sure won’t be able to overtake by adding downforce from the wing, can they?

    Ridiculous idea, It’d be better they use f-ducts and restrict their functionality electronically.

    1. I think you misspelled A-l-o-n-s-o.

      1. Nope, the man has gone from the biggest controversy in F1(spygate) to the even bigger controversy in F1(crashgate), and always escaped unharmed….sometimes even praised by his fellow spahish media “professionals”.
        Nothing sticks to him.

        1. Very clever. I like…

        2. I think you may have missed my slightly sarcastic point that it’s an old joke.

  32. its just getting silly when the drivers have to push a button for kers and one for the adjustable rear wing. and then theres the button for the front wing.

    1. An F1 car was capable of adjusting the wings etc automatically. But because ‘this is the pinnacle of motor sport’, the driver has to manually do it.

      Sports cars on the road are more advanced. Let F1 become hi-tech again please. Bring on the computers. F1 is a TEAM sport, not a driver sport.

      1. That seems like a sensible idea to me. If the teams want to go for high-tech gimmicks to pleas the fans (instead of a very simple device with the F-switch, a 1950s idea) let it be real high tech.

        If the car sensors dirty air wake, let the ECU automatically adjust front and rear wings to cope with losing downforce. It will be better to police and more hightech.

  33. I’m taking a wait and see attitude. For certain some teams will build a better system than others. I’m also considering the fact that DDD’s will not be allowed next year which will change down force in the corners so teams will have to do some serious body mods to try to make up that loss. I suspect that greater straight line speeds will take a serious toll on brakes and tires specially in the earlier part of the races where the cares are much closer together and overtaking before corners. We’ve seen some serious racing this season even though Macca has the only really functioning F Duct in F1… I know some fans were lamenting the loss of fuel stops and thinking that all we would see were processional bores for races. This hasn’t been the case has it? Hopefully we will hear from a few of the F1 super techs on this forum as to how they think rule changes for next year will affect the racing. I’m willing to give it a chance.

  34. so now they can use kers, adjustable rear wing thing, adjustable front wing, change gear, brake balance, concentrate oh and finally drive the car too all for overtaking loool

    1. The adjustable front wing is reported to be dropped for last year as it added to little advantage.

  35. One of these days the drivers will be driving with a Keyboard and mouse.

    1. There’s an idea, remove the driver from the car and allow unlimited developement and no technical regs. Have him sit in the garage and drive the car by remote control, while his vehicle does 400 mph around Monaco’s Grand Hotel Hairpin. SORTED.

  36. The rules allowing adjustable rear wings will be even more artificial than the rules allowing adjustable front wings.

    The new rules are just a little bit more of the same we already have: a flawed concept. I think its time to do away the high-downforce aerodynamics and get rid of wings and diffusers all together.

    1. There needs to be a reintrodution of ground-effect, although more restricted than when it was previously used for safety reasons, and a serious reduction in the downforce generated by the upper elements of the cars.

      Road cars do not generate massive amounts of downforce with wings, they use diffusers and sculpted bodywork, so if there is to be more relevance to road cars then these should be emphasised.

      1. i dont get this whole ‘road car relevance’ BS a road car will never travel at 200mph up the straights of Monza or take 130r at full throttle, or for that matter change its engine every 1500km. If you want road car relevance watch touring cars. I hate the way f1 is going, the show does not need to be improved! ban the dd difusors and then leave the regulations alone for the next 10 years! and for that matter stop the engine freeze and remove engine rev limiters.

  37. Don’t forget the teams have lots more track splits than the public has. It was mentioned a few races ago that they have upwards of 10 lap splits – I’m sure establishing positioning won’t be too hard.

  38. Tom M in Australia
    23rd June 2010, 13:02

    Sigh… They just dont get it.

  39. It just seems to me that it’s a recipe for controversy – I can see drivers using the system when informed they’re within one second of the car in front, only to be penalised later when it turns out that by the time they used they had fallen out of the one-second gap by 0.001s.

    We’re having a pretty high overtaking season now. Another case of over-fixing things, I think.

  40. I really dont like this, it seems so contrived and artificial.

  41. If adjustable rear wings are to be allowed in F1 drivers should be able to use them whenever they want, I don’t like the idea of them only being able to use them if they behind another driver.

    Also as they will only be allowed to use them if they are within one second of another car does this mean they will be controlled by the ECU, so that as soon as the rules are met the button to adjust the flap will become live and the adjustable rear wing will work?

    If it is able to be activated all the time you could have the situation where a driver may loose a fraction of a second between been told he can adjust the rear wing and activating it and so break the rules.

  42. So, as one technological advance improved, it’s banned and the engineers come up with another idea, which is improved, and then banned.
    Why are the teams agreeing with such a charade? If F1 is about technology, lets see the technology. If its about back-to-basic Cossy-engined monsters, lets see that.
    At the moment we are watching the whole ‘show’ slowly begin to disappear down its own collective plug-hole.
    Why not just agree to keep the ideas that actually work, and either write them into the F1 ‘spec’ the following year, or allow the other teams to catch up in their own time? In the meantime it allows for variations in design and possibly finding a solution of benifit outside F1. As it is, no more F-duct, no more exhaust-diffuser, so what are all the engineers going to do now?

  43. anyone thought about lapped cars?
    what would be the rules if something like Button chasing Alonso in Canada happens again (which probably would), they they encounters a lapped car. Would the frontrunner be allowed to adjust the wing as “he is passing a car” ?

    1. A fantastic opportunity to get rid of blue flag rules.

  44. Giving only following cars the straightline speed advantage seems extremely contrived. It is also likely to mean that drivers will only attempt to pass on the straights so we won’t see any battling in the braking zones. It won’t add to the show and will be just another area of confusion for the casual viewers they are so eager to attract.

  45. 2011 looks like a great season with KERS, Adjustible rear wings, ande Adjustible front wings. But i think that all of these mechanisms will make the drivers slower. Resulting in no overtaking. As i said 2011 LOOKS like a great season, but i am not that sure.

    1. no adjustable front wings, they will be banned

  46. how will drivers know if they are within 1 second or not
    what will happen if they use it when they are 1.1 seconds behind?

    1. mate… these guys have such sharp instincts so as to be aware of time… very very aware, expecially on track. They could make out on which part of track, what they need to do in order to be that much faster than the other guy. Usually the difference is a very tiny thing, a fraction of a hundredth of a second sometimes…

      There are other things as fans we should be concerned about, mainly the tom-******* with rules which happens ever so often in the name of making it entertaining… What they have managed is to rob the sport of its character and charm…

  47. i like technical side of it, but not the safety side…
    imagine Nakajima-Kobayashi from Brasil if Nakajima had KERS AND A.R.W. with less rear grip there’s less control if first car makes a sudden move…
    and ‘slower’ cars would have 0% chance to fend off/get back to faster cars (trulli’s career would be a naught with A.R.W.) there would be no thrillers like Spa ’09
    fix aero dependance and tracks (tall order, but more ‘organic’)

  48. Well for sure the idea of use the adjustable wing just for overtaking is done based on improve overtaking, nevertheless there will be KERS to defende position.

    The question is which device will be more important, KERS I think, but what it really matters now is to define clear rules on when to switch on and off the wing.

    What is clear is that drive a F1 will be more difficult than ever, KERS, front wing, rear wing, etc.

    I would not be so harsh on this until we know how this will be used. At least they try to improve the show, but the best way is to get rid of the aero grip and make it more mechanical.

    We will see, just sit down and watch.

  49. I dont really fancy the idea but the teams must have thought it through properly before considering this option.

    Let’s wait and see next year before making a decision!

    1. I wouldn’t take it for granted that the powers that be in F1 thought this rule through properly before implementing it.

      After all the rule changes for 2009 left loop holes for double diffusers and side pod deflectors aero pieces and they had to change the points system twice before this season because they didn’t think it through to start with.

  50. It seems overly fussy to me. Either let the driver do it when he wants to not at all, say once a lap like KERS.

    As with other comments, how will they police the 1 second rule? Not the best thought through rule IMO, but then what’s new?

  51. Ignoring the fans once again.
    Yes people want more overtaking, but didn’t that survey recently come back saying that people want some stability in the rules?

    And once again they’re introducing a couple of rules at the same time to combat the same problem (DD ban and now adjustable rear wing)…meaning it’ll be difficult to see which one had the biggest effect.

    Stable rules or well thought out changes please. Not little tweaks.

  52. You know what this reminds me of… watching the road runner show… these gents at the FIA and WMSC and others involved with rule making/ changing are like Wile-E Coyote scheming to make it interesting for us watching folks… I liked how the cars looked with wider rear wings… i liked it when the cars were progressively faster each year… now these jokers keep trying to slow things down… starting to **** me off… already it is a job to keep awake during a race… You know what… i fell asleep through all of them, excluding Canada and that was not because of how exciting it was, but thanks to a power cut. I’m in India (New Delhi) and this is the hottest June ever :P

    Anyhoo, what i’m saying is perchance a lot of old timers will stop following F1… The new crowd… well, it will only take them so far, but the FIA and others are killing the fanbase :P

  53. The only thought that comes to mind is “What a joke.”

  54. Absolutely ridiculous. And people actually get paid to come up with these ideas?!
    This is on a par with Bernie’s “short cut” idea.

    A total joke …and F1 was looking good this year. Now even if F1 is any good next year, it will still be considered artificial by racing fans.

  55. This sounds interesting. There will have to be some interesting software to prevent drivers from using it ‘illegally’ (i.e. when they are actually allowed as opposed to when they think they are threatened for position and for example the car behind is more than 1 second away perhaps despite what the driver in front may think) so to speak during races…

  56. One more thing: Todt was right when he said you just can’t have competitors making up the rules for their own sport. They need to be imposed by another body. This cheap overtake wing thing is apparently a FOTA initiative and strongly validates Todt’s opinion.

  57. Sean Newman
    23rd June 2010, 16:04

    This is typical F1! Why such a artificial high tech, high cost solution when a simple cheap one would have a similar effect. Just allow skinny rear wings only and no diffusers and overtaking problem solved.

  58. Absolutely pathetic gimmick compromised by arbitrary constraints. All so the aero interest group don’t have to see their precious area infringed on.

    FOTA have gone from standing up for F1’s integrity with their opposition to the two-tier rules to being the champions of something little better than Mario Kart. What a joke.

    1. How on earth are they going to police this? What happens when the wing is adjusted at the moment the car in front happens to edge over the 1 second mark? What about packs of 3? What happens when a driver pushes another into a mistake but the defending driver swings back onto the track less than a second behind for the next corner?

      All I see is confusion, controversial penalties galore, what little extra overtaking there will be known to be painfully contrived and genuine overtakes tainted by them being aided.

      1. And what will be the effect of passing backmarkers. Will they now be an advantage to the first car following them?

  59. Brilliant technical innovation – the ECU will allow access to the flap based on the lap times.

    If the straight line speed counteracts the power loss caused by running in turbulent air I think it can hardly be called artificial.

    While they’re at it they should allow unlimited use of the front wing flap.

    1. Oh yeah and the costs are negligible compared to KERS which has the same effect.

  60. it would be good for overtaking ‘quantity’-wise IF the cars were more evenly matched, so when driver 1 passed driver 2 with the aid of his rear wing, then driver 2 could try and retake driver 1 on the next lap, or on the next straight and so on until the odd-numbered laps coming down should decide who leads the final lap

    they sure tend to allow all of these artificial variables interfere with natural racing..when there wasn’t any qualifying decided by fuel loads, there was the ludicrous top-ten-tyre rule and that one combined with the 2-set-per-race rule

    oh and by the way, just that something good came out of this..with a change of such magnitude to aid overtaking, the Tilke tracks should surely be considered redundant, right?

  61. Does anyone know how the time gap between the cars will be measured?

    Is it from last sector split, so the driver will have one sector to adjust the rear wing even if he dropped back slightly after the time split, or is it possible to have a constant measurement of the gap to the car in front?

    1. I think at the sector times, yes..and since there’s nothing to gain for the chaser if he falls back, he’ll be wanting to be as close as possible anyway

    2. Maybe they want to take the gizmos from luxury cars (Mercedes, Volvo) that react to being close the the car in front (so instead of helping develop road tech, they will start to use road tech.), so they can add automatic braking if getting to close to the car in front and maybe even a avoid car automatic and parking device.
      All without the driver having to interfere, and look how long the drivers will take this being fooled around.

  62. While I generally disapprove of the adoption of artificial overtaking aids such as this over the making of more fundamental changes to the aerodynamic/mechanical grip ratio, this change is not as “videogamy” as some are speculating.

    According to the FIA statement:
    “The driver may only activate the adjustable bodywork in the race when he has been notified via the control electronics that it is enabled. It will only be enabled if the driver is less than one second behind another at any of the pre-determined positions around each circuit. The system will be disabled the first time the driver uses the brakes after the system has been activated.”

    Once the system is activated, the driver is free to adjust the rear wing until he next hits the brake. The system is then deactivated until he passes the next pre-determined point on the track within 1 second of a car in front. If a pass is completed, the car that was passed cannot adjust it’s rear wing until it passes the next pre-determined point within 1 second of the car it’s now following.

  63. How about No wings !!!

    1. sure, maybe some handlebars, a lawnmower engine and trolley-wheels

    2. HounslowBusGarage
      23rd June 2010, 19:25

      It would be a lot easier to police than this proposal. “No aerodynamic surfaces independent of the main bodywork forward of the centre line of the front wheels, behind the centre line of the rear wheels or above the centreline of the front to back wheels in excess of 200 sq mm in plan view.”

      1. yes… love to see this…the aero guys would still have lots to work with.

  64. Unreal!!! For me and some Purists….. This is when you start to dislike the organizations which run the sport.

    1. This is a FOTA proposition that the FIA have accepted. The Teams have thought this stuff up themselves.

  65. HounslowBusGarage
    23rd June 2010, 19:21

    I wonder if this will be available in qualifying?
    Will we see Car A slipstreaming teammate Car B around to a “pre-determined location” in order to feather downforce Car B on the long straight and gain a few precious tenths?
    This could be another example of the law of unintended consequences where qulaifying becomes a complex game of leapfrog as team cars pull each other round a highspeed track like Monza.
    It’s not going to be a ‘spec’ wing, is it? So I wonder which team will be able to construct a wing that deforms just that bit more and allows just a bit more ‘feather’ than the others, and how on earth will the FIA prevent it?

    1. The rest of the FIA statement:
      “From 2011, adjustable bodywork may be activated by the driver at any time prior to the start of the race and, for the sole purpose of improving overtaking opportunities during the race, after the driver has completed two laps.

      …….

      The FIA may, after consulting all the competitors, adjust the time proximity in order to ensure the purpose of the adjustable bodywork is met. ”

      The driver’s are completely free to adjust the wing at anytime in Qualy and Practice.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        23rd June 2010, 20:07

        So the reality is that all the cars have adjustable rear wings throughout the race weekend. But they are restricted from using them in the race until the start of the third lap and onlt when they are within 1 second of the car in front – whether that’s a teammate or lcar about to be lapped.
        What happens with Safety Car re-starts?

        1. It says available after the first two laps so it would depend on where the “pre-determined positions” at the particular track are located.

          1. HounslowBusGarage
            23rd June 2010, 20:53

            It’s bureaucratic crap rather than racing, isn’t it Jagged?

          2. I’m afraid I have to agree with you there HBG :-(

  66. So the FOTA learnt from the LG-questionaire, that fans like technology. So instead of using something perfectly low tech (1950s ideas) as the F-switch/F-duct, they introduce something complicated with electronics operated by a button the driver can use when sensors indicate through a display that it can be used. Probably supported by RFID chips or GPS in the cars. WOW.
    Why not make it completely automatic adjusting of the wings to “anti-wake” mode done by the ECU to make it even better? AND add a parking mode for the pits.

    I am pretty sure they made it complicated enough, so only the biggest teams will have a go at this next year, or even have the teams decide it’t not worth the effort for next year and only go for KERS. So we will have KERS+ASW cars passing KERS or ASW cars and all of those lapping the cars without any of it. A great prospect.

    1. On the contrary, I’m sure all the teams will use it. It would be built in to the standard FIA supplied ECU (built under contract by McLaren) and would only require wing actuators which may very well be another standardized part.

  67. so, the leader of the race won’t be able to use it…

    and is it when you’re within 1 second of a car a position ahead of you, or any car (backmarker)

    and now, you’re within 1 second, but then, you’re 1.1 seconds behind, the driver thinks he can adjust it, but he cant…. how will a driver know if it is or isn’t on??

    this is stupid

    1. It’s only activated at several pre-determined positions around the track when within 1 second of another driver (any Driver)and the driver is notified electronically that it is activated. The driver can then adjust the wing until he hits the brake for the first time after activation. One must assume a light on the dash or other notification showing that the system is active and available.

    2. And yes, the leader can use it when overtaking backmarkers.

      1. I doubt that will be the case.

  68. Interesting thoughts here. The driver is free to adjust the wing until he hits the brakes. That means that if a driver wants to overtake and is close enough, he has to:
    – Lower the wing once he gets on a straight
    – Negotiate the overtake
    – While finishing the overtake, simultaneously reset the wing back to its normal position
    – BEFORE Braking in time for the next corner

    If it gets tight, he has the choice between
    – Braking in time but leaving the wing, leaving himself with heaps of overstear until the next time he comes near another car
    – Readjusting the wing back and missing the corner

    This might be a big more interesting / silly / chaotic than we might originally expect.

    1. That’s interesting as the statement only says that the system is deactivated. Whether or not the wing is returned to normal position on deactivation I don’t know, but if not it would be a simple matter to make the wing switch a “Dead Man Switch” on the wheel that only flattens the wing while pressed and returns it when released.

  69. It seems too artificial for me.

    I’d rather had no limit on KERS, but with the obligation to make it part of an engine deal. So if Ferrari makes a beast of a KERS, Toro Rosso and Sauber will profit as well.

  70. They might as well allow flexi-wings if they are gonna add more movable parts to the car. we have seen how some manufacturers (like ferrari have used them in their new 458italia) to allow the car dynamics to change according to speed & handling needs. Also Ferrari used such elements in the past in their nose bridge which was outlawed by the FIA (it was clearly illegal). but wouldnt allowing such elements be more road relevant if the sport wants to recover such a tag.

  71. HounslowBusGarage
    23rd June 2010, 21:14

    Y’know it depends so much on where these “pre-determined positions” are – and how many there are on each lap.
    And it depends so much on who makes the decision for their location.
    This year we have Macs with a straight line speed advantage, but Red Bull with a high speed corner advantage. Now imagine where each team would want the “pre-determined positions” to be located. Not the same places, are they?

    1. Right again HBG, but next year it’s “all change” with no F-duct, no double diffusers and the return of KERS thrown into the mix.

      1. HounslowBusGarage
        23rd June 2010, 21:47

        Yes, but I was thinking of the influence that teams would have on the ‘determining body’ who decides where these”pre-determined positions” are.
        Can you imagine a season where a team with a fast corner advantage is miles ahead by two-thirds of the way through the season, only to find that the next six races or so do not have “pre-determined positions” that suit their car’s characteristics, and in fact suit the team in third place to a ‘T’?
        Third place team suddenly does well and catches up on second place team, while leading team is positively dis-advantaged by these “pre-determined positions” and falls into the clutches of team 2 and team 3.
        And all because of the FIA or Race Officials who decide the location and number of these “pre-determined locations”.
        Sounds like excreta to me.

        1. I can see it happening Hounslow! Also announced today under General Safety:

          “With immediate effect, any car being driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically, or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers, will be reported to the stewards. This will apply whether any such car is being driven on the track, the pit entry or the pit lane.”

          I can see whole truckloads of canned worm being opened over this one!

        2. Thas seems to be just the thing F1 would make of the situation. Add in the “erratic” driving rule and we might be back to not having a clue who won, why and how in the days following any session and race.

          1. HounslowBusGarage
            23rd June 2010, 22:33

            Ha!
            Yes. Each race decided by judge in session, four or five weeks after the event!
            That’ll keep the casual fan engaged and interested (not).

  72. Can it be used on backmarkers?

  73. What, no vote to extend the front wings a few feet further past the front wheels?

    They’ve missed a trick there, that would have made it more exciting, everyone having to pit for a new nose every 10 seconds!

    Why don’t we just have NASCAR style safety cars as well, where they always bring it out 3 laps before the end to ensure a close finish?

  74. Also why keep Charlie Whiting as race director? I find that to be awfully old-school.

    Why not get one of the choreographers from the Pineapple Dance Studios instead?

  75. So, what if three cars are in a row – car 1 cannot use the wing, car 2 is allowed to use it to pass but supposedly not allowed to use it to defend from car 3. How is that going to work?

    And who will want to lead the last lap of a GP now knowing you can’t defend the guy right behind you? Stupid.

    Just let them use it 10 times a race. Same for KERS. Much simpler to monitor and enforce, and much more strategic.

  76. Once again we all sit and ponder… how is it that the teams and the FIA are so utterly removed from the reality of what people want. And indeed what works, this will be another potential rule disaster – just another reg that will be abandoned in a year, just another reg that hurts rules continuity and makes it harder for F1 to build and sustain an audience. Pathetic

  77. I think I now have a clearer idea on what the FIA does with those fuel samples after practice. They SNIFF them. Tell me these guys have really got a handle on reality. This Rear Wing Reg is total Bulls**t.
    The drivers must be shaking their heads at this inane perversion of what has now become loosley known as F1 racing.

  78. too complicated.

    fans need to kick up about this.

    seriously.

    how do these people get it so wrong year after year?

  79. Just bring back refuelling. I want to see car racing and overtaking by mix of strategy and ability of the driver. Ability to defend in the heavier car, and agressive lighter car (plus the fresher/no fresher or variable tyre factor). Not this “push to overtake” rule. Silly…

    1. That sounds good in theory but it never happened when we had refuelling – every car worked out the optimum strategy and all stopped within a lap or two of each other. And, with the aero problems, a light car had trouble passing a heavy car in most cases anyway.

  80. This was a good year because of the Mc Front-duct and Redbull exhaust-difuser duct.

    Different focus and different performances result in unexpected overtaking.

    That is what everybody wants to see. Nobody wants to see easy things like “programed overtaking” .

  81. i can see it being excellent, there will be so much over taking you wont know which position your car was in by the time it comes around again, LOL.

    take time out to read the full report and i think you will understand it just a little more.

    predetermined points on each track,
    light up display when driver can use it.
    first touch of the break and its discontinued.
    and extra 15ks per hr predicted depending on set-up.

    how many times has a driver been held up due to not quite enough power to overtake even though they are quicker?
    they end up just sitting there and hopping for a mistake, or normally have to back of due to car overheating and when mistake is made they still cant get passed.

    i realize it will take time to get used to, but im all for it…

  82. Jonesracing82
    24th June 2010, 8:32

    why dont they implement the “1 second rule” for KERS also…..

  83. Thumbs up to the adjustable rear wing concept

    I was initially against this – like any true die hard conservative f1 fan

    But then as I thought about it, I came to realize that hey, this is really good!

    For one thing, it’s really difficult to stay within one second of the car in front through corners, due to air disturbance and the subsequent loss in downforce, so you have to really be quicker than the car in front to stay within 1 second.

    In terms of implementation, I’m guessing that the time intervals are calculated at some or all of the sector points (there are over 30 sectors at each track from what I understand – although the f1 audience only sees 4). 

    So this system then promises to give us more overtaking, without having to compromise the design of these beautiful cars. I’m all for it. In fact, depending on how well it works, drivers may prefer to chase in the closing laps and plan to launch an attack. I like that more strategy will be involved, but I fear that drivers who outperform in qualifying won’t be able to defend – thus the fastest cars will always end up at the front. 

    But if it works, it makes the racing a little more interesting! And that’s a good thing!

  84. With these wings I could imagine seeing two drivers overtaking each other multiple times. Then we hear on the radio. “Lewis, don’t overtake him now! If you do so he will overtake you on the final lap and win the race.”

    1. Unfortunately, they will make the change that is possible so insignificant that it doesn’t do anything anyway.

      Lower classes play with gimmicks to increase their popularity.
      So why F1?

  85. not good, i don’t like it

  86. “After that they will only be allowed to use them if they are within one second of a rival car as Lowe explained:”

    What the hell is wrong with these people. How are they going to police this. Very poor.

  87. The first thing that sprung to my mind was: what about KERS?

  88. “never happened”?
    well, as far as I remember, F1 is a “racing” sport, not a “tyre nursing” sport..
    I watch F1 not only for the overtaking, but also for the war strategy, that include surprising factor (counter-strategy) in the mid of race.

  89. theRoswellite
    24th June 2010, 15:54

    “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.”
    Leonardo da Vinci

    The wing is the problem, and it’s manipulation is not the answer.

    However…..allowing the driver to selectively vary the rear wings angle of attack may or may not end up improving the presently unacceptable situation regarding passing, but trying to enforce a rule that restricts the usage of such a device to only that situation where a car is “following by less than a second” will open the door to utter chaos.

    How will this one second gap be measured?
    Who will be depended upon to do the measuring?
    Who will maintain the measuring equipment?
    Will the activating device (the driver?) be expected to deactivate the system if the gap increases to more than a second…in the middle of a corner?

    The list of problems seems endless.

    If they want to try the variable wing…fine…but, please drop the idea of trying to control the manner in which it is used.

    To improve passing the FIA needs to reduce the wake turbulence caused by the car’s aerodynamic devices, to the greatest extent possible, and look toward an increase in mechanical grip as the means by which cornering speeds can be maintained. Fast, beautiful, and competitive cars (not inverted airplanes) would be the result.

  90. I appologize for not checking the spelling of my previous post. I was a bit worked up. Please forgive me.

  91. I’m not opposed to movable aerodynamic aids. Nor am I opposed to KERS, of whatever power and duration Fota/ FIA decide. I am absolutely opposed to contrived conditions of use. I am also opposed to manditory rules that divide the grid in relation to where they qualified, and the tire compounds they start the race with. I’m not particularily fond of manditory use of 2 tire compounds during the race. In my opinion the old Goodyear style qualifying tire, and race tire was far superior. It seemed to put the result in the race itself, Car/Driver to Car/ Driver, and pit strategy played a minor part. Allow pit stops, but make the racing relavant to why we watch them in the first place. Who is the BEST driver that day, and which is the best car. NOT who is the best chess player. or rule stretcher, with the fastest computer and biggest bank of theoratitions. Passing will be there when glandular fortidude, savvy, determination and opportunity come to the fore.
    Am I nuts?

  92. Roger Carballo AKA Archtrion
    24th June 2010, 21:52

    Enough said…. it’s a horrible idea, a farce of a competition and cause enough to ask Mr Todt to move appart.
    Period.

  93. Once again this is the FIA and or FOTA trying to fix something that isnt broke. Improving the racing is down to 2 things in my opinon, and thats the circuit designs and also the difference between the tyre compounds. I think its safe to say both of those elements gave us the cracking race we had in Canada the other week.

    1. i believe it had more to do with the track surface Matt…
      same tyres this weekend but not the wear we had in Canada…

      KERS i see will also still be allowed so it will be an interesting 2011 season….
      someone drops there rear wing for more speed and the other driver pushes his KERS button to counter the overtaking move…

  94. Okay.. X in front and Y comes up to within a second behind him. Now Y hits the wonder button and dips his wing to pass.. but hang on, X pushes the KERS button at the same time and gets a boost. Result = Fail!

    KERS standardised and unlimited to use would have been the best answer. The muppets at FIA have gone overboard with the dipping rear wing and its almost certainly going to cause a lot of confusion next year.

  95. Totally crazy, and the FIA want Joe Bloggs fans to get involved more and gain new audiences so they go add a stupid artificial addition to the rules. Also if KERS is coming back how complicated would it be to figure out who is doing what and when and how they got past :-s

    They should make the tyers lower profile on the rim and wider, remove all under-tray defuser fin aero and allow larger lower rear wings this will give more mechanical grip and a good wake to draft from. Remember the good old days of Mansell and Senna?

    Other Cart series races have plenty of overtaking so why cant F1.

  96. KERS with Indy Cars run a system where they are limited to anything from 10-30 uses per race, which are for 10 seconds each with an eight-second recharge period between uses, each track is different some have more or less depending on the circuit…
    they also still refuel as well, the new system disengages the gears so you can not put the car in gear till the nozzle has been removed…
    they still have a problem were they loose front grip when traveling behind another car, so what new…

    personally i still would like to see how the Wing thing works once its been sorted…
    passing is such a do or die affair that you either get it right or the whole thing turns to custard…

  97. So if someone is within a second of someone in the last sector at Silverstone, he can adjust his wings from the pit straight until Stowe? That’s a BIG advantage.

    1. The new pit srtaight at Silverstone is between Club and Abbey.

  98. This is a ridiculous idea…. what happened to driver skill? It’s not like 2010 season was a bad one….far from it!

  99. Just throw a full course caution with 3 laps to go every race, like we do in NASCAR

  100. I think Alonso was the rightful winner of the 2010 Championship. Ferrari made a big mistake after Schumacher crashed by not bringing him into pit. Vettel got very luck indeed! But im Glad he won and not Hamilton. The thing about Alonso is, when he is winning he becomes happier and more outgoing AND much more modest. But when he is losing he takes it badly. In contrast Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel became more arrogant as they were winning and could see the Championship within their sights. And i dont like this to be honest. The reason i like Alonso is cause he kicked Schumacher off the throne driving a Renault twice in a row and as i said he doesnt become aggressive or arrogant when winning.

    But i was disappointed in Alonso for waving those gestures at Petrov for not letting him past. Petrov has to prove he is cut out for F1 so he had every right to hold Alonso back to prove he could do what an F1 team requires. Still though, had Ferrari pitted Alonso at the same time as everyone else he would be Champion again. I just hope he will do it next year! Alonso pulled off an incredible lap to get fourth on the grid. the car wasnt fast enough and like everyone said, that was all him. He made errors, but he dragged it round to get fourth and that was damn impressive!

    Good luck next year Alonso! You will win it again

    Well done to Vettel, but i just wish he would act a little less arrogant next time. Same goes for Webber whom i thought was a really nice guy till he started winning. I prefer winners who keep their cool to losers who dont. Because losing when coming so close is painfull.

  101. Unsure if this has already been discussed – 7 pages of comments to read…

    Have seen it once or twice this season where the car behind has got a toe and pulled out to overtake but been on the rev limiter before they’re enough along side, how will the new rear wing get around this? will this be something new for engineers to think about when setting the ratios?

    Mark

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