Fernando Alonso, Ferrari, Valencia, 2010

Alonso fumes after Hamilton penalty, Ferrari calls result “a scandal”

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Fernando Alonso called the result of the European “unreal and unfair” after falling from third place behind the safety car to ninth at the chequered flag (before being promoted to eighth).

Meanwhile Lewis Hamilton got a drive-through penalty for overtaking the safety car yet still finished second.

Alonso said:

I think it was unreal this result and unfair as well.

We respected the rules, we don’t overtake under the yellows and we finish ninth. That is something to think about.

It completely destroyed the race. Hopefully we can move forward because after the victory of Vettel and podium for McLaren ninth place is very little points for us.

We need to apologise to the 60 to 70 thousand people who came to see this kind of race.

They gave a penalty already to Hamilton but it was too late – 30 laps to investigate one overtake.
Fernando Alonso

The stewards were also considering whether to penalise nine drivers for their speed behind the safety car, a decision which has not yet been taken.

The delay in giving a penalty to Hamilton, combined with the gap opening up behind him because of the slow Kobayashi, meant he didn’t lose a place when he took his drive-through.

But he lost a lot of time to Sebastian Vettel and was unable to challenge him for the lead at the end of the race.

Hamilton denied he overtook the safety car deliberately, saying:

I saw the safety car was pretty much alongside me, I thought I passed it so I continued.
Lewis Hamilton

However it does appear from replays that he might have backed off at first, unsure whether to overtake the safety car or not.

Alonso may suspect Hamilton backed off deliberately to prevent him from getting past the safety car as well – but if he’d had the awareness to do that, surely he’d have also made sure he stayed ahead of the safety car himself?

This controversy could have been avoided had the stewards made their decision more quickly. This is not the first time we’ve seen them take a long time to make an important call like this one.

Update: Ferrari described the race as a “scandal” in a statement:

A scandal, that’s the opinion of so many fans and employees who are all in agreement: there is no other way to describe what happened during the European Grand Prix. The way the race and the incidents during it were managed raise doubts that could see Formula 1 lose some credibility again, as it was seen around the world.

Update 2: Ferrari continue their criticism, issuing this quote from Piero Ferrari:

I am incredulous and bitter, not just for Ferrari, but for the sport as a whole, as this is not the sort of thing one expects from professionals. For a long time now, I have also followed races in championships in the United States, where the appearance of the Safety Car is a frequent occurrence, but I have never seen anything similar to what happened today at the Valencia circuit. If it raises some doubts over the actions that led to a false race, to me that would seem more than reasonable.

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352 comments on “Alonso fumes after Hamilton penalty, Ferrari calls result “a scandal””

  1. As much as you might hate Alonso he does have a point.

    Like 10 laps to decide whether or not Hamilton passed the safety car? The first time the BBC commentators saw the replay they spotted it immediately.

    1. I don’t hate Alonso. I don’t see what I’ve written here that might give you that impression.

      1. It wasn’t pointed towards your article just in general reading the comments that many people don’t like Alonso for his complaining.

        1. People don’t like Hamilton moaning in Australia about strategy, and Monaco about his brakes. People don’t like Vettel moaning on the radio in Canada saying he is immature… When it happens to Alonso there he is an exception to the rule or something?

          1. @CapeFear- Peter was pointing out that although he is complaining, he has a point this time.

          2. I think we need a poll, “Do you like to hear F1 pilots complaining..”

            I think most people would rather they don’t.

          3. The trouble is drivers are often criticised for towing the party line and with their PR speak, but as soon as they complain they also receive criticism.

        2. It was stupid how long it took. I just didn’t like the way all Alonso cared about was if Hamilton got owned rather then focusing on passing people to get back to where he belonged.

          1. I like to think that this incident is balanced out by Ferrari’s “promotional” (testing) day.

          2. @Mike- other teams have “promotional” testing days, rendering your point useless.

          3. Ferrari’s hilarious self righteousness is a joy to behold though, these things balance themselves out over time, just because the stewards took a while to deliver a punishment, an this is usually how long it takes, it doesn’t mean F1 is going to loose credibility, just Ferrari’s going to loose some points.

            Ferrari were slightly robbed no doubt, however there vitriolic reaction ain’t doing them any favours.

          4. Hamilton got away with murder again.

            Most unfair result, and the witch hunt that followed (drivers penalised left right and centre) is only proof that the stewards know they completely messed up the race. This pathetic attempt at ‘doing something’ about the situation just made matters look even worse.

            At the same time, Kobayashi’s race was a joy to watch. If only Ferrari had had the balls to gamble once their race was destroyed, they might have salvaged some important points.

            What a season!

          5. @Senor Paz,

            I think you need to ask yourself how many times Ferrari have benefited from long (or deferred) decisions over the years. Also did Alonso really loose out that much as a result? He surely would have been as most 1 place forward if Hamilton had been brought in earlier. Alonso had a bad race and as usual instead of admitting that he would rather blame others.

    2. You say that but look how long it took them to give petrov a penalty in Canada for a collision with pedro…

    3. This clearly was not a deliverate tactic. It was very, very obvious he was unclear what to do. How the heck could he have done this deliberately to push Alonso back.
      Alonso is still acting like a little boy that he is. Still smarting from Lewis whipping him at McClaren in his rookie year. Poor,Poor boy. Somebody give him his dummy back quick.

      1. If Hamilton purposly slowed the Ferrari’s to get them behind the safety car it was impecably timed!

        Blindingly obvious he was unsure and hesitated.

      2. Fernando only pointed out how long it took for the decision to come through, and said that he’s disapointed with eighth place. Hardly a little boy’s behaviour.

        1. I think the “little boy” comments are referring to his petulant radio messages, wanting Hamilton to pay, and then wanting to know how many places he lost – not particularly sporting.

          1. Not particularly sporting!?!

            Asking about the status of one of your closest championship rivals is hardly unsporting behavior. He obviously thought that Hamilton stood to gain from breaking the rules, and that he could have followed him and done the same if it was to improve his race.

      3. lol @ David & scribe! Both of you bang on the money!
        The hypocrisy of that Ferrari statement didn’t escape me either. I remember plenty of times where Ferrari benefited from “iffy” stewards decisions.
        Alonso didn’t really care about anything other than needing to get Hamilton heavily penalised, he should have put it behind him and concentrated on the race, not whinged and whined over the radio.
        Did no one clock the body language from Alonso when Lewis won last time? Alonso looked like he was going to be sick! lol

        1. The constant referral to past incidents has nothing to do with what happen here. I’m sure all the drivers complain on the radio. Alonso’s was on featured because it had relevance since he was following Hamilton and at the time.

      4. “This clearly was not a deliverate tactic.”

        “Blindingly obvious he was unsure and hesitated.”

        I love it, how can you people be so sure? I’m not going to accuse Hamilton of deliberate cheating, but it sure looked bad. The only person that knows the real intention behind that moment of hesitation is Hamilton himself, and I think his statements after the race are suspiciously defensive on the matter.

        Either way, the result is most unfair and Alonso is surely allowed to feel ripped off. That’s racing, unfortunate things happen, move on.

        1. damonsmedley
          28th June 2010, 8:18

          Can somebody explain to me exactly what happened as if I know nothing? I missed that tiny segment of the race and it has proven to be the most talked about part! :(

        2. @Senor Paz.

          Please explain exactly how Alonso was backed up? He was far too far behind to be backed up by Hamilton. If he was being backed up he would have been much closer at the time of the incident. Alonso is being childish as usual as he under performed in front of his home crowd. As you are so clearly on the side of fair play I hope you were this defensive of Hamilton over the last few years when he has been on the other end of the unfair decisions……

      5. What Hamilton has done was cheating. Tv images are right in front of everyone. It is very clear.

  2. Sorry was it 30 laps to decide? If so that is even worse.

    1. Either way, it was still too long for the stewards to take action

    2. It was no where near 30 laps. The safety car incident happened on or about lap 11, and Hamilton served his drive through on lap 27, 3 laps after the penalty was announced. So 14 laps at the most.

      El grumpio continues..

      1. So 14 laps or 30 laps, what difference does it make? It is still way too late.

        1. you watch F1 very little my friend….that’s is F1 standard sometime get more than 14 laps…

          1. Yeah, like Alonso in China after his jump-start…
            Anyway, Hamilton is always favored by RC, that’s a fact.

          2. If you think Hamilton is favoured you clearly didn’t watch the 2008 season.

          3. 2008 season? When McLaren stole Ferrari’s designs and got away with it?

          4. Manu (possibly below me) is absolutely right this not the first time, they always give reprimends (hope i spelled it right. But why do the stewards like Hamilton so much…

          5. Geel was talking abouting Hamilton not McLaren. He was talking about the 2008 where he got penalties completely incorrectly and when Massa was seemingly let off lightly for a couple of offences.

          6. Manu: ‘2008 season? When McLaren stole Ferrari’s designs and got away with it?’

            With the active participation of Fernando Alonso as far as I remember, but you evidently don’t. And they didn’t exactly ‘get away with it.’

          7. @Manu

            Which was triggered by Ferrari cheating with a design that was specifically developed to pull the wool over the eyes of the race stewards! Oh and Renault had even more designs from Maclaren and got away with no punishment at all!

        2. pmsl @ Manu thinking Lewis Hamilton is favoured. Manu watch 2008 season and even some of 2009!

          1. McLaren did not steal anything from Ferrari, what happened was, a handful of people including Alonso did their best to damage McLaren.

    3. MacademiaNut
      27th June 2010, 18:28

      Absolutely not. That’s because Ferrari wanted the penalty even before the race started!

      The SC car incident happened around Lap 10-11. If it is not for Alonso’s insistence on talking to Charlie, this probably would not have been investigated at all.

      According to FOX transmission here, there was no notice from stewards until lap 23. So, somewhere during lap 23-24 they must have shown the graphic of “Stewards investigating car #2”.

      In lap #25, the drive through was given.

      In lap #28, the drive through was done.

      1. So what you’re saying is breaking a rule is fine, as long as one doesn’t get caught?

        1. MacademiaNut
          27th June 2010, 23:56

          Absolutely not. What I am saying is that this incident would not have been noted if not for Alonso telling his team to inform Charlie. He said that only after the race restarted and they found out that they were not getting any points.

          The only way that race control would have known of the incident is through the video (which they did not broadcast). So, saying that the stewards were aware of the incident from the time it happened (lap 10) is not right.

          That’s all I am getting at.

          1. maestrointhesky
            28th June 2010, 0:47

            Totally agree! I think the reason the decision took so long was because Alonso was the only person who knew there had been a breach of the rules. BBC coverage had no idea of the incident until his first radio transmission, which would probably be the first time anyone else was aware. I’m pretty sure the stewards won’t get much advance on what we see and by the time we were seeing car 2 under investigation, we knew what the issue was and the penalty was issued. If Alonso had said nothing then I don’t think anyone would have been aware of the rule infringement. I think the real issue is that Alonso knows his biggest concern when it comes to the championship is Hamilton and he wants to do anything within his control to try and hold him back. It didn’t work out today though. Not such a dissimilar situation to when Rosberg at Williams put in personal best laps when served with a drive though and retained his position (I forget which track). I don’t remember such a big fuss being made then.

          2. My bad… didn’t figure the continuation in your response to earlier quite from someone else…

  3. Kieth your last paragraph says it all. What Hamilton did and what Alonso suffered is no fault of theirs. Better Race Control is needed.

  4. Alonso needs to calm down, or else he’ll get hauled up on Article 151, whatever it might cover…

    As I mentioned in the live blog, it’s quite ironic that the key to Hamilton taking a drive-through without a position loss happens to have a Ferrari engine in the back, although if the 9(?) drivers get penalised 30s, it’ll push Alonso up the order because of Kobayashi bottling the pack…

  5. Alonso can just pick up his toys, put them back in the pram and go home quite frankly. Hamilton did something wrong (barely, mind you), got a penalty which was served in good time and quite correctly – and that’s it, end of story. That’s how it has to work – consistent, sensible stewarding, or all hell breaks loose.

    It’s not like Alonso was having a good race, was it? Aside from some decent aggressive moves at the start, he was invisible all day just sitting happily in 9th. If he’d been properly effective, charging up e the field after his stop under the SC I could understand his frustration but quite frankly… he wasn’t!

    1. The issue is that the penalty was not given in good time. The gap between Hamilton and Kobayashi gradually became so large that the penalty became a non-penalty. This was not sensible stewarding.

      1. Read my above comment MVI, the penalty was served in 14 laps. Unlike the other nine looming penalties.. were it not for the presence of KOB holding up the pack, HAM might have ended up in 8th or 9th, and nobody would have been saying anything other than ‘HAM got a deserved penalty, end of story’.

        1. I read your comment JSC. You don’t think 14+ laps is a long time? That’s over 20 minutes and it sounds like an unnecessarily long time to look into the matter. Doesn’t the Safety Car mention that it has been passed?
          Lap 9 SC was called
          Lap 10 SC comes out in front of Alonso and Maasa, with Vettel and Hamilton pitting. Lap 14 SC pits at the end of the lap
          Lap 20/21 announcement Hamilton being investigated
          Lap 22 Talk of soon Hamilton would be able to save his position even if he got a penalty.
          Lap 25 Hamilton given a penalty and pushes to maximize distance to Kobayashi
          Lap 27 Hamilton serves penalty and comes out ahead of Kobayashi

          1. My point is simple. 20 minutes is nothing in in terms of how long it takes for resolution of most F1 investigations, and I’m sure everybody here can cite dozens of examples. At the end of the day, if KOB had not been there to ‘preserve’ HAM’s place, he would have ended up back near 10th and nobody would have been complaining about the length of time it took for him to b penalised. In my opninion, its just more Ferrari sour grapes directed at McLaren and Race Control, while they ignore the point that KOB was the one who turned a usually acceptable penalty into a ‘no-penalty’. And that’s just racing.

          2. MacademiaNut
            27th June 2010, 18:31

            The whole reason this was even investigated is because ALO asked his team to talk to Charlie. Otherwise, I doubt this would have even been investigated.

            So, the stewards probably did look at it and make a decision in reasonable time. It’s just that it did not get to the stewards until Ferrari talked to Charlie to investigate the situation.

          3. Kob set the tone for the entire race. His lack of pace on a non-overtaking track allowed Hamilton to keep his second and Vettel to remain unchallenged for the entire race.
            That’s racing.

          4. This arguing is doing my head in. If this had happened to a Ferrari driver we would not hear anything about it.

            Build a bridge and get over it.

            There is plenty of time for Alonso to stamp his dominance over Hamilton if Ferrari can actually catch Mclaren and Red Bull on the road.

        2. @JSC
          Your point about it being 14 laps is ridiculous. The 14 laps were not 1:40 lap times, the majority were set behind the safety car. The real measure of how long it took should be measured in ‘Time’ not laps, and that the length of ‘time’ it took was too long because it negated the penalty.

          1. The time was normall is his point, an probably not much could be done to speed it up.

            The other point is no one could have legislated for Kobayashi, he negated Hamiltons penalty but thats racing, can’t change the regs because it benefited Hamilton.

          2. Alonso was unable to “stamp his dominance over Hamilton” in the same car, in Hamiltons rookie season, and he is not going to manage it this year either !

          3. @Cacarella,

            If you look back over the seasons, hamilton has been on the wrong end (and ferrari on the good end) of similar situations where a penalty has taken an age to be decided or even a couple where the decision has been left until after the race (despite plenty of the race left to make a decision). It happens and I am pretty sure the stewards did not even know about the problem until Alonso flagged it up to his team. A couple more feet ahead and Hamilton would not have been punished. It also did not particularly affect Alonsos race either.

  6. It was fair enough that Hamilton got a penalty, which he served, but I also don’t think he did it deliberately. I think he was hesitant about what to do and this unwillingly affected Alonso.

    I also detect anger not just at Hamilton but at himself for letting Kobayashi past at the end and generally not being able to get up ahead. Sour grapes in other words.

    1. I agree, Hamilton was clearly unsure whether he should pass or not. Had he **not** been unsure of himself, he would have driven quikcer and evaded the problem. If he did just miss the line and effectively overtake the SC, the penalty seems fair.

      What annoys me extremely though is the bad faith of Alonso and Ferrari in breaking testing regulations and then complaining so heavily about etheir bad luck here.

      1. I guess you were annoyed too when Schumacher was trying out some Mercedes enhancements back in May during a filming day. It may be against the intended spirit of testing regulations but it isn’t against the wording, much like double diffusers and F-ducts.

        1. “Alonso fumes after Hamilton penalty, Ferrari calls result a scandal”

          Because Alonso or Ferrari have never fixed a Grand Prix before. COUGH COUGH Austria, COUGH COUGH Singapore.

        2. No, I’m annoyed more because of the way Alonso has the temerity to use the word ‘scandal’ in Formula 1 for something both marginal and relatively minor when he himself has been directly and ‘indirectly’ (cough indeed!) embroiled in two of the biggest scandals in recent years – Spygate and Singapore and for which he emerged in all his Teflonso glory. Hamilton was penalized today essentially for being unsure what to do in a situation not of his making. Worse was hearing Alonso over the radio unhappy that the punishment hadn’t affected Hamilton. Just nasty stuff. Hope Massa trounces him for the rest of the season!

          1. Both posts above: Exactly. LMAO

      2. That incident is not relevant to this discussion.

      3. Unsure of passing a safety car? What does testing have to do with this incident?

        1. Hamilton was level as the SC came out – had he accelerated, he would have avoided any problem. Precisely because he was unsure whether to accelerate or break he ended up penalized. Unless you take the line he dithered on purpose – but as Keith pointed out above, if he was that cynical, he wouldn’t have allowed himself to be caught out.

          Testing – nothing. Ferrari calling this incident a ‘scandal’ – everything since they’ve just circumvented an agreement purposely as they themselves admit, rather than making a mistake. This is all bluster from Alonso and Ferrari because they failed to deliver in Valencia and want to throw some dirt in the air to head off the testing row. Kind of obvious. Just hope Massa starts beating Alonso and gives him something else to obsess about rather than Hamilton.

        2. Just the way testing has nothing to do with this incident, Hamilton’s SC issue had nothing to do with Alonso’s performance yesterday – the spaniard should have focused on his driving

  7. I’m going to start by saying I don’t begrudge Ham this second place. It’s done now.

    However, the thing was ridiculous. It took so long for a decision that the effects were nullified. Comparing to where the Ferrari’s ended up it was a sweet deal. They can’t give Ferrari more points but this seriously wasn’t equal in my opinion. For the points, I wish Alonso had jumped the SC it may have been different. Although what I would really like is quick and effective decisions when there is clear rule breaking.

    1. I wish Alonso had jumped the SC…

      That’s the point. Alonso SHOULD have pass safety car also.

      If race stewards impose a penalty, BOTH drivers were involved. If not, both drivers would have retained their previous positions.

      As it’s said in Spain: “Alonso, Hamilton has stolen your wallet in front of your eyes”

      Next time pay more attention to what really matters, and less complain!

      That said… maybe FIA, Teams, Drivers should talk about Safety Car rules. But this is another story.

      1. Hamilton passed the Safety Car from being fractionally behind and got a penalty. RC were focussing on the Safety Car protocal while it was out on track, thats part of the delay in investigating it.

        If Alonso had followed him then that would have been far more serious and been a possible disqualification surely as he was very clearly completely behind the Safety Car at that time.

        Perhaps you should all stop complaining quite so much about a perfectly normal and valid situation with regards to the penalty issuing. I bet none of you complained about the amount of time it took Alonso to get his jump start penalty, and you all probably think that he won Singapore in 2008 fair and square.

        1. Behind is the key word. Fractional or not. The safety car is deployed and visual to Hamilton and he passed it. He hesitation gave it away he was going to slow down and then decided to pass.

      2. 17 points in two races
        27th June 2010, 18:09

        #IDR

        Do you know why LH father is not more his manager?

        Yes, he discover he´s real father was Charlie Whiting.
        Never minds what he does: without fuel in Canada or overtake SC in Valencia.

        It´s a tricky man like he begun complaining at Monaco 2007 and do his best at Hungaroring 2007.

        Nice boy with an angel face!!!

        1. It is unbelievable. All this boils down to one thing. Alonso thinks he has a right to win, and he know that he can not beat Hamilton in a fair race. SIMPLE.

          Hamilton made a mistake, and lost the race to Vettel because of it.

          And yes. Hamilton is great.

          1. I think that is the miserable thing here – we are discussing the whining of a grown man who cannot just accept that he can be beaten by LH – he will always be looking for reasons as to why he is behind Lewis ie either McLaren are favoring Lewis, oh, i am in a dog of a car at Renault and now FIA are giving Lewis preferential treatment – anybody who witnessed FIA decisions in 2008 and that would be everybody including cry baby Alonso would know there is no way FIA can give Lewis preferential treatment – and to imagine that an outfit of Ferrar’s profile is actually throwing its weight behind this kind of whining! aargh! Is LDM getting senile or something!

    2. Thats the whole point isn’t it, it can’t be right that Alonso would have still finished third if he’d followed Hamilton and broke the rules. Its a travesty, i know these things happen in racing but you can understand why Alonso and his fans were absolutely fuming. That they took 30 laps to decide something which would have taken 2 replays to work out is a discrace.

      1. Ads you’ve summed it up for me.

        ” it can’t be right that Alonso would have still finished third if he’d followed Hamilton and broke the rules”

        Clearly something wrong and to add insult to injury

        “That they took 30 laps to decide something which would have taken 2 replays to work out”

        COTD for me Ads. I think you’re bang on with what the issue is.

        It’s done now but I think something should be done for the future which is what I said first so I don’t think I’m complaining that much :P

        PS Keith I keep getting that I move too fast/post comments too quickly but I leave at least ten mins between them if not more because I was watching the match. I just thought I’d let you know in case anyone else was having this problem.

        1. I got those messages too, along with one saying I needed to activate Java, etc.

        2. Great comment of the day considering it only took 14 laps between the safety car going out and the penalty being awarded.

          I’m sure you could still consider that a lot but bear in mind race control was very likely to be slightly preoccupied with an F1 car DOING A BACKFLIP AT 200 M/HR LANDING UPSIDE DOWN AND CRASHING INTO THE BARRIER.

          1. Sorry about the shouting… turned on the stupid caps lock then accidentally pressed tab to turn it off, which submitted the post… :(

            Race control took a long time, but very far from the 30 laps being suggested especially if you consider the priority during a safety car period. I agree it still took far too long, but the way the FIA now operates it will be completely cleared within a race or two.

            This is really being blown way out of proportion. Any other team, probably any other driver even, pulling this and Ferrari – especially Alonso – wouldn’t have cried so much.

            I’m rather disappointed with Alonso, he should be above this and focus on his own race. He’s calling the race a farce even though it wouldn’t have made a difference for his finishing position at all, only Hamilton’s. Really unprofessional.

          2. It’s ok mistakes happen with caps. I also said COTD for me. Not for the site but for me. I felt Ads points were valid even if the actual numbers may have been off which I was trying to make clear in my post.

            It may not have made any difference to Alonso’s final finishing position but it allowed his main championship rival to get 2nd. It was also interpreted by some -including me- as a punishment which by the time it was given that did not fit the crime.

      2. Spot on Ads. And to answer BS saying that he is disappointed with Alonso complaining when his position wasn’t compromised, is the typical argument of a Hamilton blind fan. So know you can’t call unfairness when it happens because it’s unprofessional ? Tell that to Hamilton, who has been a continuous whiner since he started his career in F1.

        1. OK what should happen to Hamilton….be disqualified. Or maybe the race should be given to Alonso. Alonso has a permanent monk on when it comes to Hamilton. Since Hamilton out drove him when both were at McLaren

          1. Look can we please stop the bashing on either side? I know these two are figures which will always evoke strong reactions but let’s just debate as some excellent points have been made on both sides of the argument. On a positive note I am really enjoying the debate.

            To address John’s point, I personally don’t feel anything should be done now. It’s too late. It’s not that anything should be given to Alonso he got what he deserved in terms of strategy etc the point was that Hamilton didn’t lose out by what happened really in comparison and we can noly speculate as to where he would be had he not overtaken the SC or had he allowed Alo to do the same. I’m not saying that he deliberately blocked Alo there as I think he hesitated but the result was the same despite intent which is always open for interpretation.

          2. Well, since Lewis is getting a bit of a reputation even with commentators of being a somewhat regular infringer of the rules… a little more than a slap on the wrist is merited. In canada he first stopped a perfectly healthy car on track. Anybody who thinks that the team didn’t do this to meet minimum weight requirement must be dreaming (oh, i want twice as much of whatever you’re on). Then in the same race, he raced while using more than the track (and this he has done before and once was penalized as well) while coming out of the pits… Let us not forget the shining beacon of all, the liegate :P

            Somebody needs to take McMerc aside and tell them that they should take care to avoid another big fine… and the driver, could possibly face a race ban or two, as a stern reminder thanks to continous infringements of one or the other kind…

            I understand why FIA may be reluctant to do any of the above. The reason is that most of the F1 media is British and the outcry would be huge. Hamilton is popular and frankly, both the McLaren driver’s (Alonso and Lewis) in 2007 were only spared as Ecclestone made it very clear before the very crucial WMSC hearing that he’d much rather prefer Lewis over Kimi as champion. I think this is why you see Lewis still get away with stuff than most other drivers. It is the love of Mr. E that keeps him out of trouble :) There, i said it! Does not matter what you and i think… F1 was and still is, Mr. E’s biatch :P

      3. sorry didn’t know the actual number of laps it took the stewards to decide but it felt like days, so i picked a deliberately large one to exaggerate the point

        1. having said that re-reading the alonso quote looks like i just took the figure from there lol

          1. Just going to add on the end of all this, China, Alonso broke the rules, was handed a penalty for a highly simple infraction very late, saftey car negated it.

            Thats racing, an thats whats happened today, Teflonso has a whole lot of cheek to call this a scandal, especially considering what he’s been caught up in over the years.

  8. Alonso is just bitter because he didn’t have the chance to pull off the same maneuver. If he had the chance, he would do it just like any other driver.

    1. he didn’t have the chance to pull off the same maneuver???

      How fast do you think the safety car is?

      1. Look at the replay of this situation again. Alonso was in a bad place in a bad time, that’s why he is ******. Safety car came out more or less alongside Hamilton, giving him the opportunity to do what he did (and what he was penalized for).

      2. @JLuis

        LOL… a good burn mate!

  9. I can agree with Alonso. But nothing the drivers can do about this.

    Hamilton got his penalty, so he’s safe.
    I’m curious if they will penalise the others.

  10. Alonso, are you always crying? But you didn´t cry when they only gave you a drive through and you took advantage when you jump started in one of the first races.

    1. wha? he got the drive through just as he was completing the first lap… and it ruined his race…

    2. Edu, if you recall, in that race Button complained when Alonso jumped the start. Did you say Button was crying? You seem to get very emotional when it comes to Alonso for some reason.

      1. Well, Button just pointed it out. Once. And considering he was still racing him for position it made sense.

        But if you continuously bitch about a single occurrence that has been penalized and served during a Grand Prix I’d say that constitutes crying. Not to mention beyond unprofessional (just like Hamilton crying in Australia about the extra pit stop decision).

        It’s a shame for Ferrari, nothing less. But for as far as I understand it the problem isn’t Alonso finishing 9th but Hamilton finishing 2nd instead of 8th, correct?

        Half the point scorers are under investigation for speeding, Webber made a backflip in the most badass crash since Kubica in Montreal running into the back of a B-class F1 car… and THIS is supposed to be the scandal of the race… a slow FIA that didn’t cost Ferrari a single position?

        Crybabies.

        1. Well, there still is a certain unfairness that if you do an illegal move you get penalized so late (why?) that you benefit from having done the move, while someone a meter behind you stays legal and gets no benefit. It cost Ferrari relative position with respect to McLaren.

          I don’t think there is any reason here to be talking of ‘bitching’ and ‘crying’ and ‘beyond unprofessional’.

          1. I’m not disagreeing that this is yet another fail by the FIA. If it takes this long to give out this kind of penalty it starts to lose its purpose.

            With regards to the results being ‘unfair’, this balances out over time and there will pretty much always be losers to unexpected events. The only reason the mysterious safety car in China wasn’t elevated to a ‘scandal’ was because Rosberg, Kubica and Petrov don’t drive for Ferrari, who incidentally benefited greatly from that safety car period.

            Crying and bitching might be overly theatrical words, but Alonso’s conversation with his engineer regarding Hamilton’s position was totally pointless. If he was still busy with an unreachable driver 7 places up, it’s no wonder he failed to pass Buemi. I really think both Alonso and his engineer should have handled that much more professionally. They had some bad luck in the pits stops, which happens to everybody and just focused their frustration on a relative position loss that didn’t (or at least shouldn’t have) made any difference for Alonso’s race. He couldn’t even get past Buemi, let alone Hamilton.

          2. I like your comment here as it is neutral on superlatives for the bad that’s being done.

            I had the same feeling of the call for a penalty being to late to make it fit the crime (although not done on purpose) as i had with Rosberg in the 2008 Singapore race.

            And it is not the first time this year the FIA were cought out in relation to a safetycar period. Although for me the point of having almost half the finishing cars investigated after the race for speeding under SC is even more of a scandal.

        2. Smelling a Hamilton fanboy/troll here. Perhaps a bit bitter for England out of the world cup ?

          1. He just said that Hamilton cried himself during Australia. This is what really annoys me about any arguement about Hamilton or Alonso. If you make a point, reasonable or not, you get called a fanboy. It’s the F1 equivilent of comparing someone to Hitler- you fail to adress the issues in the comment. What happened today was unfortunate, but BS was simply making the point that Alonso should not have whined so continuously to his team and media. I lost respect for Hamilton doing it, and I’ve lost respect for Alonso doing. And yes, I am a fan of Hamilton, but that does not make me a fanboy as I still have enough rationality to judge a situation properly regardless of my preferance.

          2. ^ What matt said. :)

            Although reading back my wording wasn’t very subtle, sorry about that.

            As for the world cup, I’m dutch and we’re doing alright so far. :)

  11. the safety car should have come out in front of Vettal.
    if it had there would have been even more trouble as the cars behind would have dived into the pits and even jumped Vettal..

    so no cars should be allowed to pit till they have done one lap behind the Safety Car, otherwise this will continual to happen.

    really its no ones fault just the rules are not correct for this situation.

    1. I completely disagree. We had that rule very recently when no cars were allowed to pit until all cars were lined up after the safety car and it was the worst safety car rule ever. That’s why it was changed back to the old format with some slight modifications.

      1. It was a bad rule because cars needed to pit in order to add fuel, with the refueling ban this rule wouldn’t be so bad

  12. Worst F1 race i’ve ever seen… can’t belive they take so long to analyse such things… The SC driver should’ve told the FIA Hami overtook him right away… and action must have been taken in seconds…

    A drive throught isn’t a harsh penalty for someone who overtook the SC. It only costs 10 secs or so. Those 9 drivers might get a even worst penalty for doing nothing worse than Ham.

  13. oscar_nicero
    27th June 2010, 16:23

    It sounds ironic to see Alonso complaining about a race adulterated by a safety car deployment. It looks like he has forgotten what happened on singapour 2008.

    1. LOL I forgot about that

    2. yeah …totally agree..

  14. Oh Alonso, I love the irony!

    :)

  15. Hamilton did overtake the safety car.

    The safety car had passed the white line in the pit lane so was “on track” at the time of the incident.

    It was right that Hamilton got the penalty but McLaren were brilliant in ensuring that Hamilton lost as little time as possible, allowing him to serve his penalty, but still keep his position.

    End of story really. Great race by Mclaren.

    1. “McLaren were brilliant in ensuring that Hamilton lost as little time as possible”

      You must be joking. 30 laps to decide a penalty and your conclusion is McLaren were brilliant? No, you are brilliant…

      1. Again.. it took only 14 laps for him to be awarded the penalty. Not 30. Stop listening to ALO during his post-race grumpy interviews.

      2. No, you are brilliant…

        I don’t appreciate that comment one bit.

        I was just making the point that McLaren did what they could to make sure Lewis kept his position.

        It was right that Hamilton was penalised but it’s hardly McLaren’s fault that the stewards took an age to make their decision and to give the penalty.

        1. Sorry JSC, that was meant for JLuis.

    2. Ok then, let’s brake all rules and declare war to everybody.

      The rules are rules if you brake them you have to receive a huge penalty, it’s been so many times McLaren are breaking the rules that I start to laugh, surely next time the FIA will sue a clarification on the rules as they did in Canada. Lol

  16. I agree with Keith.

    Very appropriately, he has given the blame to the slow stewarding and not to either Alonso or Hamilton.

    Formula One is a fast sport. The fastest one infact. Why the hell is its stewarding the slowest!!

    1. Very good point!

  17. Alonso’s race was destroyed once the SC is out after he passed the pit lane, while Button and the other people behind him did not and could still pit under SC. It’s unlucky for Alonso and the same thing happened to other drivers before. but Alonso talks like it was Hamilton who destroyed his race, not unless he intended to overtake the SC under yellow as well, but could not because do so because of Hamilton.

    I LOLed after Hamilton came out in 2nd after his DT, thinking how Alonso is about to explode in his cockpit, hahaha.

  18. MacademiaNut
    27th June 2010, 16:32

    So, let’s get this straight. ALO is complaining that HAM shouldn’t have overtaken the safety car and should have been penalized. Let’s just say HAM was behind ALO, it still would have had ALO exactly where he was after the pit stop (just HAM behind). If HAM had not passed the safety car, ALO would be in the same position, jus that HAM would have been one ahead of him.

    Is he saying that had HAM not slowed and then overtook the safety car, they both could have passed the safety car in time?

    1. This is the essential comment, Mr. Nut. And more to the point, they both would have been harmed because of Kobayashi’s dawdling. The sum of Ferrari’s comments is that it doesn not really matter what happened to them, as long as Lewis Hamilton suffered as well. The fact that KOB drank Fred’s milkshake again at the end just makes Alonso look like a hack as well as a fool as well as a whiner.

      Sorry if its brought up below, but I find it ironic that Fred’s fail with Kobayashi at the end is the kind of thing that got Trulli sacked from Renault, when Fred was in the other car, at Magny Cours. Trulli had to have a wry smile when he learned of this shocking bit of hackery.

    2. He implies exactly that. Had Hamilton raced on, Alonso would also have had time to pass the SC, but that’s an “if” point.
      What Alonso said (in the spanish press, they usually cite him to the end of the cite) was that “Vettel should have won, but Hamilton should have been 8th and Alonso himself 9th”

      1. Fair enough and thanks for sorting out the usually misleading press quotes. But I have a hard time reconciling the specific comments about manipulation and injustice with the purpose of wanting the man who finished P2 to have been only less far ahead. Does Ferrari think they are only racing Hamilton for the WDC? Button must feel rather slighted by Ferrari’s drama.

        1. I imagine Button would be delighted to play the Kimi Raikkonen role in an Alonso/Hamilton battle.

  19. I think we really should get rid of the Safety Car. There are better and fairer alternatives. Let’s use the alternatives.

  20. MacademiaNut
    27th June 2010, 16:33

    Yeah.. ALO’s race being destroyed is because of the safety car, not because of HAM jumping ahead of the SC.

    1. That’s not Alonso’s complaint though. Ham’s rcae didn’t get ruined. He got ahead. Alo never had a chance of beating him because of what happened. He doesn’t blame Ham for ruining his race but that the whole incident wasn’t fair

      1. the point is Hamilton benifited from breaking the rules and Alonso lost out by obeying them

        1. Maverick_23
          27th June 2010, 18:32

          Not intentionally breaking the rules tho. We all saw his indecision on the on-board.

          I believe the problem was a slowly deployed safety car. It took an age from the time of the crash to the SC to get out on track. Yeah we all know drivers are told the SCs been deployed but you dont expect for it to pick you up when your running P2 when there is enough time for it to pick up the leader. Least of all running side by side with it down to turn 2.

          So, Poor race control IMO.

          Im in agreement that HAM broke the rules and was given correct punishment.
          I also agree the ALO was hard done by. But calling the race result “unfair and “a scandal” is a bit of overeacting i think.

          Singapore 08, Now thats a scandal…

  21. They should take an example from Nascar, where stewarding is fast and fair!
    Last week during a SC, the leader stopped on track because he fired down his engine to save fuel and couldn’t get it started right away (it was an uphill).
    He dropped to seventh, got it fired up and went back to the front… a bit later the stewards deamed that wrong, just called his team to drop back to seventh and done. (SC was still out)
    This way the error is corrected and the race isn’t over for the driver. Great stewarding, how it should be!

  22. Roger Carballo AKA Archtrion
    27th June 2010, 16:37

    My only question here is:
    Did Bernd Maylander notice that there was something wrong with a McLaren passing by his side? Did he tell something to race control? Because if the answer is yes, he did, then what is to be discussed is the race control bias favoring McLaren.

  23. following the live timing on http://www.formula1.com, official f1 website…alonso in 3rd place was gaining on hamilton after the 3rd or 4th lap…the safety car period, stewards late call cost alonso and possibly massa podium places…in clean air, alonso is incredibly fast..faster than hamilton(same as in canada). anyways onto silverstone, where they say the “blown diffuser” is better suited for in the faster corners…

    1. Blog Raider
      27th June 2010, 16:52

      F1 races are done on track, sometimes with cars in front and not “in clean air” Ham got punished, not his fault Alo ended up where he his, get over it!

  24. Safety Car should enter the track in front of the driver in 1st position, not randomly in the middle of the pack. It was going to be a wonderful battle for the top positions, but they spoiled it in a very bad way.

    1. bernification
      27th June 2010, 23:14

      unfortunately, they are bothered about the voluntary marshalls safety, not track position.

      Maybe Alo needs another team mate willing to crash for him to get safety car help?

  25. Alonso has some justification for being upset with the way the penalty was applied. The delay in applying the penalty allowed Hamilton to avoid dropping a place. Alonso, on the other hand, dropped several places and finished well below where he could have been.

    But the impact of penalties has always been, to some extent, the luck of the draw. Hamilton isn’t the first driver to benefit from the late application of a penalty – just look at Nico Rosberg in Singapore 2008. Some you win, some you lose – Alonso won’t be complaining if he benefits in a similar way in the future.

    1. bernification
      27th June 2010, 23:20

      Exactly,
      2008 Nelsinho crashed to assist his team mates poor qualifying.
      I never heard from Alo about how that penalty should have been served earlier.
      Mate, deal with what is on your own plate, stop looking at others.
      I can’t help but think this was a diversive taktik to try and unify his country men to the ‘enemy’ and not notice how poor his performance was.

      1. bernification
        27th June 2010, 23:20

        Sorry, meant rosbergs penalty.

  26. Hamilton’s Indecision leads to Alonso blaming him for the incident that left him in 9th. Had Hamilton not slowed probably both drivers would have been able to pass the line without penalization; maybe alonso would have been the only one taking a drive through. It is an incident similar to the one in Monaco when Michael overtook Alonso at the line.

    I do not blame Hamilton for what happened to Alonso (having to go one slow lap before being able to pit) but I do think that the penalty should have been harsher if not taken a lot quicker. Maybe a stop and go for 5 sec (about avg pitstop) because Since Hamilton did not have to stop in the pitlane (he only slow downs to abou half the speed, it aids him in not losing much time (0-100km/h in an F1 car is about 2 sec) which could have put him on Kobayashi or Buttons sight at the very least.

  27. I think the point is how far the outcome of the decission from the stewards is from “what it should happen”

    lap 8: Hamilton surpases the SC
    lap 9: Hamilton sees black flag (or stop and go, or drive through)
    lap 10: Hamilton got the penalty

    That would be with good stewarding, with no one complaining but only for the bad luck. How far is that from what actually happened? I think that’s the way to know if there was good stewarding or not.

  28. F1 would do better by directly giving the championship to Hamilton… I am sure that same will happen again and again, now they will add a rule for everyone else so they can not do what Hamilton did.
    F1 rules are created by Hamilton.

    Hamilton is the biggest cheater in the history of F1, and there are a lot of examples.

    1. Hyperbole much?

    2. What are the examples then?

    3. I love this. When a driver someone likes exploits the grey areas in the regulations, it’s pushing the boundaries and being clever but when it’s someone else, it’s cheating.

      1. I concur. (comment too short)

        1. bernification
          27th June 2010, 23:31

          Ron, you are tripping.

          I have watched F1 for years, and I have never seen so many punishments handed out for things that have happened for 20 or 30 years that Hamilton has suffered.
          Raikonnen, lap after lap, out broke himself at the first corner in Spa, using the staight line speed advantage he gained to pass a few times- no penalty.
          Raikonnen closes Hamilton into a corner, where the only- I repeat ONLY- thing Hamilton can do, is take the grass AND let him back in front- Penalty Hamilton.
          Japan- how many times I have seen drivers out-brake themselves into a first corner- hundreds.
          How many penalties-1 Hamilton.

          You really have no idea!

          But I’d be willing to sink a cold one and discuss! (As most people here would).

  29. bah, there’s never an F1 season where a driver/team gets shafted by the FIA – thankfully this time it was Ferrari.

    I suppose kudos for Alonso for having the mental capacity to whinge at 300kp/h.

  30. Ciaran Bodenham
    27th June 2010, 16:58

    Always play fair Alonso? It seems most of the teams are still somewhat bemused by your interpretation of fair following that “filming” day…

  31. Good race by Ham, he did something wrong and got penalized. Another thing is how big that penalty was, and it was in fact nothing, Whitting already knew the drive-through would keep him in the same position. In the meantime these other 9 pilots may get a much bitter penalty than Ham. We are talking about justice here, and the guy doing the justice has failed deeply. I expect Charlie will be resigning this week. And let´s not forget that from next race onwards whoever does what Ham did today will be disqualified, bet new rule this week. This is our loved F1 justice.

    1. Jhonnie Siggie
      27th June 2010, 17:28

      Haha what a silly and extreme post. You are wrong on almost every count. Charlie will not reign. No new rules will be written. And there will be no disqualificatins.

      You like alonso feel mad at the moment but you now sure why. Maybe you are mad that your man was caught on the wrong end of the safety car rules? Ask yourself, would you be making this same angry post if Alo was P2 and Ham was P3 when the SC was deployed? I think not!!

  32. Jhonnie Siggie
    27th June 2010, 17:04

    Alonso complained over the radio that Hamilton deliberately backed off and caused the safety car to come out in front of him. When Ferrari complained to race control, they might have mentioned that rather than Hamilton passing the safety car – 2 separate issues. I’m thinking that this might have diverted the attention of race control from the real violation.

    In the end I think we saw proper justice. Lewis erred as he had several times in the past and he got a penalty. Alonso wants Lewis’ race to be ruined because of a borderline mistake that could have been made by anyone. This is what you would expect from any competitive animal so I understand his madness. However, Lewis was helped by Mr. Kobiyashi over whom he had no control. Alonso might as well argue that hurricanes and earthquakes are unfair.

  33. my 2pence worth, if ham hadnt slowed before the s/c line and hesitated like he did alonso nstill wouldnt hav got past the safety car. thus bein el grumpo still would’ve been were he was. alonso’s startin to lose his nous and the plot end of

    1. Jhonnie Siggie
      27th June 2010, 17:17

      I agree with you. I think he knows he is mad, but he isnt sure why. Kobayashi’s strategy ended up helping Hamilton big time so maybe Alonso is feeling like slapping poor Kamui now :)

  34. I for one think the safety car was to enable Vettel win. Don’t they wave through the folllowing pack while waiting for the lead driver?

  35. Pretty rich coming from a driver who should have been banned from the sport for being involved in race-fixing, and a team who spends at least 50% of their track time cheating.

    End of.

    1. ‘50% of their track time cheating’… are you serious?

      1. Either cheating or moaning, bue yeah, pretty much.

        1. Hmm, matt88 had it right when he asked “are you serious?”, to which your answer should clearly be a resounding “no”.

          1. I’m entitled to my opinion. My opinion is that for a lot of the time I have been watching F1, Ferrari seem to have been at the centre of more scandles than any other team. So I’m sorry that my opinion doesn’t line up with yours, and my answer should clearly be a resounding whatever I want it to be.

      2. bernification
        27th June 2010, 23:38

        Well, yeah, Ferrari had a Veto for years on anyones parts, should they prove to be competitive.

        Ans Alonso, if he had any intelligence, when asked, do you consider this win valid (singapore 08) would have said ‘No’.

        That is one of many reasons people don’t like him.

  36. The result of Singapore 2008 was “unreal and unfair” but that still stood!

  37. It was funny to see someone actually overtake SC. Something I thought I’d never seen. Stewards were extremely slow in making an easy decision and gave Hamilton 2nd place that he didn’t deserve.

    After this incident and all the reprimands Hamilton has gotten I hope I’ll never have to hear about “Hamilton chase” anymore.

  38. Ferrari got screwed big time today. It’s one thing loosing out because of a bad strategy call but for the safety car to screw up Ferrari like that was totally dumb. The pace car should either pick up the leader or let all the cars pass and circulate at a controlled speed until the leaders catch up again. Obvioulsy a bad call form the stewards as Hamilton basically got a slap on the wrist. Fernando and Massa should have passed the pace car as well. They would have ended up with the same penalalty and basically still finished 3rd and 4th as they were keeping the same pace as Hamilton.

    1. Jhonnie Siggie
      27th June 2010, 17:36

      Why dont people get it. Alonso was not wronged by Hamilton. Hamilton drove to the lap time delta he received in the cockpit. He then saw the SC besides him and he made the wrong decision in the heat of the moment. Ferrari were really wronged by the fact that Webber went airborne. They were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Button was in the ideal place to capitalise.

      End this silliness about Lewis getting a mild penalty and curse Ferrari’s luck instead. Or maybe view it as Karma/payback for Ferrari abusing the filming loophole to test new parts.

      1. It reminded me of Le Mans this year: SC due to Nigel Mansell crashing: All Audi got behind a 3rd safety car because they had not passed a GT car that had to slow for said SC; At the end, Peugot were 40 seconds ahead by having the 1st SC.

        Audi blamed the GT, but really it was bad timing with the SC3 coming between leading drivers.

      2. The point is that Hamilton broke the rules and got advantage. It’s true that Hamilton had little time to make his decision but that’s irrelevant.

        The idea of penalties is to ensure that a) drivers won’t brake the rules b) even if they do, the unfair advantage that they get will be taken away.

        1. Jhonnie Siggie
          27th June 2010, 18:52

          The crazy thing is that we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Kobayashi wasn’t so slow. Ham would have lost positions and you would be happy. Seems to me like you’re mad at lewis’ good fortune. There was no unfair advantage.

          If you want to make the case that the stewards took too long then fine. Go look at previous races and see how long they typically take. If they usually take a similar amount of time then you have no case. If they took much longer than the norm, then the race might be seen as manipulated. In the mean time, all Alonso and Ferrari fans can do is vent ignorantly. It sucks too lose, we get it.

          1. Sigh. Stop fuming and take a look on what I actually wrote. The fact is that Hamilton got advantage because of braking rules (or are you saying that he’d been 2nd even if he didn’t overtake the SC?). Of course it was due to KOB and stewards being slow but still Hamilton got unfair advantage.

            SC was out several laps and there was enough time to make a decision. Normally when it’s clear that a driver has broken the rules (like when a driver cuts the line after pits) stewards are really fast in making a decision. This was also a very simple case and it’s a shame stewards weren’t faster than that.

            I’m not saying the results were manipulated, I’m just saying Hamilton got a very lucky 2nd place that he didn’t deserve due to slow actions from stewards. It’s not Hamilton’s fault stewards were so bad, but arguing that stewards did fine and the only problem was KOB’s slowness and that Hamilton was just a bit lucky is plain crap.

          2. PS I’m not a Ferrari or Alonso fan as you seem to imply. Actually, Ferrari is my least favourite team. I just wan’t the rules and penalties be fair and same to everyone.

          3. Jhonnie Siggie
            27th June 2010, 20:21

            We agree that the objective of penalties is to more than cancel out any potential gain from breaking the rule. Lewis got the penalty as per the rule book and served it. Your beef is that you didn’t think it was timely enough and didn’t have the desired outcome. I call the Ferrari venting ignorant because they have not produced any proof showing that the timing of the ruling proved the FIA wanted to manipulate the race. What I see is that a bunch of folks here simply want to regurgitate Ferrari talking points. What I will say to Ferrari is put up or shut up. Prove that the Stewards took an unusually long time to punish Lewis before making silly claims.

            The other funny thing is that Alonso was complaining on the radio that Lewis backed off too much thus causing him to fall behind the SC. Alonso would have had no problem just making it ahead of the SC only to have Massa caught out. So excuse me if all I see is whining because they lost.

          4. Jhonnie Siggie
            27th June 2010, 20:39

            @Hotbottoms. It’s not personal. We know you’re not very partisan and are simply sharing your views.

        2. bernification
          27th June 2010, 23:44

          And again, how many complained when Heidfeld gained positions and got a delayed penalty to keep his position?
          These mistakes happen continually, but no-one complains untill it’s Hamilton.

          1. Recently there has been a lot of debate concerning for instance Hamilton, Vettel, Webber, Button, Alonso and Schumacher. What they have in common is that they are all top drivers and any of them (excluding Schumacher) could win the championship. Heidfeld is not a top driver and thus it’s natural his actions won’t get the same amount of attention.

  39. Ferrari have become a joke.

    From constant irrelevant whining about the new teams to this. It was a Safety Car period, people were busy elsewhere, and in the end Hamilton got a penalty anyway. The penalty is going through the pitlane, not swapping cars around for Ferrari’s liking.

    Considering after all the dodgy stewards’ decisions that have gone Ferrari’s way in recent years (Bourdais on Massa to name the most ridiculous), and to hear Alonso accusing Hamilton of fixing things after he himself benefited from the worst act of cheating in F1 ever in Singapore – it’s pathetic how childish they are being? ‘It’s not fair?’ – life isn’t fair, you arrogant sore losers.

    I’ve always kept out of the team rivalries. I don’t support the teams my favourite drivers drive for, so I have no need. But this for me is the final nail in the coffin as far as my respect for Ferrari goes. Completely lacking in class.

    1. I raise my cup to you. Well said.

    2. Jhonnie Siggie
      27th June 2010, 19:15

      Yes well said indeed. All I get from these moronic comments, is that the folks at Ferrari are mad. Mad that they came out the losers. If Kobayashi didn’t create a gap and Ham had lost positions, they wouldn’t be venting now. They should be mad at karma rather than than Ham or the stewards. I often hear ppl say karma can be a b****. Maybe this is payback for Ferrari abusing the filming days rule to test.

  40. What really ****** Alonso off is that Hamilton slowed down intentionally to keep Alonso behind the SC taking the risk of falling himself behind the safety car, which he did but avoided with the trick and all ended up ok for him. If I was Alonso, I would be ****** too. He is human.

    The Pits should stay closed until the cars are ordered behind the SC in the same positions o the time of deployment.

    1. I think you’re giving Hami way to much credit here. He doesn’t have that much time to plan that scheme. It was all reaction and split second decision making. Unfortunately, he made the wrong decision and was punished for passing the SC.

  41. Oliver June 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    “I for one think the safety car was to enable Vettel win. Don’t they wave through the folllowing pack while waiting for the lead driver?”

    Very good point. They should off all been wave through. Half the field lost out because they (race control) messed up deploying the SC….

    …just stop and think about it what if Hamilton and the rest had stayed behind the SC? Vettel would of been 95% of a lap ahead (back of the train).

    It doesn’t make the Ham pass right and he rightly got penalised for it but it is not his fault ALO lost out.

    BTW it was by less than half a cars length, a very small error of judgement at what 70mph+ maybe 100mph

    1. Agreed. If the SC had’ve just picked up the leader like it is *supposed* to, then none of this would’ve occurred. It’s not the first time the deployment of the SC has left a lot to be desired, and perhaps the FIA should spend some time fine tuning the process.

  42. The rules should re-introduce the closure of the pitlane during safety car periods, it would avoid all of this kerfuffle and nobody would be punished because re-fuelling is a thing of the past.

    1. Well said! That was only a daft rule because people had to break it to avoid running out of fuel.

      Bringing it back would break up the mad rush too. There wasn’t much safety going on in the pitlane today, when everyone piled in at once for tyres, was there?

  43. I think that theres way too many rules revolving around the safety car with the first and second lines by the pits.

    In other forms of racing there are way clearer rules revolving around the safety car. Like when theres a yellow flag, there are no positions being gained or lost and cars must get behind the safety car in formation laps before pitting.

    I think the FIA should scrap their current safety car rules completely and come up with a new system because the drivers cant even follow it.

    For example Schumi in Monaco or Hamilton in valencia, neither driver knew what they did was wrong because the rules are so unclear.

  44. Why don’t they just get rid of the SC? It causes so much trouble. Yellow flag, slow down, no overtacking, fullstop.

    1. agreed… the current system does not work obviously

    2. i disagree with that, some incidents at circuits like monaco were there are blind corners, you need a safety car to slow the pack right down and prevent any colisions with safety workers and remains of cars. You also often need a way of keeping the track clear for a few minutes and a safety car is the best way of doing that because it forms the cars up into one big group. Also the cars need a rough idea of which route to take. Without a safety car, you would have to red flag the race for incidents like webbers.

      1. Right i dont agree that the car should be removed but i do agree with “Yellow flag, slow down, no overtaking.”(system being revised) The safety car is for the drivers’ and the marshals’ safety. Racing is not important during a time when a wreck is being cleared. Becuase honestly its poor sportsmanship to use SC to overtake when someone could be seriously injured on the track. racing must stop during sc period

  45. If Alonso spent less time crying an more time racing He might of done better, an why no safety car when there was a glass bottle on the track?, You all know the answer.

  46. As for the HAM drive through, So speeding under yellows is less dangerous than beating the safety car by 3mts, if you can persuade me different then go ahead.

  47. Between Alonzo and Ferrari one wonders if they are really professionals or a bunch of whining losers.
    The only time they are happy is when they are winning and leaders of the championships.
    They need to wake up and understand that they have to compete the same way everyone else does.
    It is unfortunate that Kobayashi was slow at that point of the race but that is how it goes. If they had such a wonderful car why were they not able to catch him and Button up and get by? Of course as we have seen Alonzo never makes mistakes that cause him issues such a putting your car in the wrong place out of 2 at Montreal with Button on your tail pipes or spinning the car into the wall.
    I for one am getting tired about Luca and Alonzo whining all the time. F1 was but is no longer all about you and if you don’t like it leave. Please!

  48. I am thoroughly sick of Alonso whining. He really ought to either grow a pair or retire.

  49. I’ve not read all the comments so apologies if someone else has raised this, but watching it again, first off, the safety car crosses the pit lane white line on the way out, and enters the circuit way before the SC line, this should certainly not be allowed for the safety car for the same safety reasons that the competitiors can’t do so. Then, it looks like Lewis is just cruising past the safety car, he’s easily going to make it to the first safety car line before the safety car does, but then the safety car just boots it, he takes off like he’s trying to desparately get to the line before Hamilton…(cont’d)

    1. I beleive Hamilton was unsure weather to pass or not, that hesitation cost him the penalty.

      However Alonso saw it as a move to block Alonso from passing the safty car with Lewis. This is why Alonso is so angry.

  50. … Then, Hamilton has already put his boot down to try to make sure he gets to the SC line before the safety car does, and having done so, despite reaching the line after the SC, he can’t help but overtake it momentarily after they both pass the line. Unlucky circumstances but I can’t see Hamilton was deliberately trying to manipulate the situation. He slowed down at the start finish line as he must, but name me a driver who wouldn’t have tried to keep enough pace up to at least beat the SC to the SC line?

  51. My friends summed this whole thing up perfectly for me:

    “If it was Alonso who had jumped the SC and pulled out the gap, his fans would say it was opportunistic and daring of him to do so. But, because its Hamilton and McLaren, of all people, that have done this, its a scandal”

    Personally I think it shows that race control is still an asylum for the incompetent, the kind of people who open a door, say you go first, the other says no you, then they argue for half an hour…

  52. David Watkins
    27th June 2010, 18:30

    Hamilton was a bit unlucky to have been put in that situation and he gambled

    The only reason it paid off was the RC’s slowness to act. They clearly don’t have the systems in place to adjudicate mid-race in a timely and accurate manner and this has to change.

    Having said that, Alonso’s obsession with Hamilton was unsavoury and a further indication that he is just not the same driver he was in 2005-2006. His radio messages spoke of a desperate man looking to let off steam. And leaving the door open for Kobayashi like that was criminal.

    Still, let’s enjoy the spectacle Alonso fanboys jumping up and down and parading their massive inferiority complex against a massive, ridiculous conspiracy by the ENGLISH MaFIA!

    1. I think any driver would have complained about any other driver overtaking the SC and gaining an advantage just in front of them.

      1. David Watkins
        27th June 2010, 18:51

        They would. And then would have got on with using their superior car to pass the inferior cars in front of them.

        Alonso didn’t do that

      2. Are you forgetting the radio message Alonso gave after Hamilton served his penalty? ‘Where is Hamilton now?’ Like it matters to him at the point in the race? Shouldn’t he be concentrating on his own race instead of worrying about what someone well ahead of him is doing? Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s an absolutely fantastic driver but he’s also such a sore loser as well.

        1. Well of course he would ask where Hamilton was, they are in competition and it is relative position which is of interest in the championship standings.

          And it looks like they’re all sore losers!

  53. Shame on Hamilton and shame on the race control. Today’s race showed that according to FIA’s regulation not respecting the rules is the best strategy. A drive through when you have your place safe?? What a joke!! And what about the five second penalty!! I though they just could get 20,30 scs or a grid penalty… I just hope that HAM does not win the Champ because of the extra points he robbed today.

  54. “Ads21 says:
    June 27, 2010 at 5:13 pm
    the point is Hamilton benifited from breaking the rules and Alonso lost out by obeying them”

    This is what people need to understand. Hamilton and McLaren got caught doing an illegal pit stop. They’re a professional team and are will to take the penalty for the rule they broke. It’s the FiA’s fault for letting get a huge gap before even calling the penalty.

    The 5s penalties are also a tremendous gray area. In the end, these teams broke the rules and should have been penalized. It’s the FiA’s fault again for not being timely in the penalties and skewing the results again.

    The FIA needs to get it’s crap together. They need to make stop go penalties to ALL safety car and pitting infractions. They need to stop the penalties that come after the race. If a car get a penalty in the final laps, make the call before they get back to the garage. They have plenty of resources to do this. Whether they’re logical (like in the case) or just completely stupid,I’m tired of watching a race and not knowing if those results are going to be changed when the cars are on the bus headed home.

  55. Alonso just got back what he did to Hamilton years ago in the pitlane.

    1. Good Call an well remembered!, though I doudt that was the thnking during HAM`s calculating an mistaken overtake of SC.

      1. Sorry to quaduaple post, but do you remember Ron Dennis going mental, I think that was the beginning of the end for Fernando.

  56. Lol forgot to mention `Ferrari cry scandel`, I dont know whether to laugh or cry after the footy, pot an kettle come to mind.

  57. It is funny how alonso says they have to apologize to the 70 thousand fans who went to see the race, yet he never apologized to the ones who went to the singapore grand prix in 2008…. he only said “no comment” to them.

  58. C’mon people. The whole issue is that Alonso once again failed to beat Lewis. That’s his dilemma and crying out the whole race on the radio about it made Ferrari called it a ‘scandal’…ferrari and scandals hmmmmm that’s an interesting issue don’t you agree. Of course they are the only team that does everything right!! And what about Alonso ??? Let’s ask that to Nelson Piquet jr….Just because Alonso’s name was cleared doesn’t mean he hadn’t had anything to do with it.

  59. Sorry, I watched the matter over and over after Alonso complained DURING the time the SC was out that Hamilton slowed down to push him and Masa behind the SC. Hamilton then sped up and “Beat” the safety car. If he did not complain I would not have gone back on my PVR to check. IMHO the FIA should pull the telemetry and go over it carefully.
    IF and I repeat IF I am correct IMHO Hamilton should have received a Black flag. It really is a pity that racing is marred by this type of incidence.

  60. Alonso and Ferrari should stop whining. Hamilton hesitated because he didn’t know whether to pass the safety car or not – it clearly wasn’t intended to make Alonso suffer. They’ve benefitted from too many calls in their favour in the past and numerous instances where they’ve screwed over other teams so it’s only fair they get one back. Perhaps he should have concentrated on his own race rather than whining about McLaren – maybe if he had, Kobayashi wouldn’t have made him look like such a chump in the closing laps and he would have gained more after the post race penalties. He clearly doesn’t like Hamilton and the more he goes on, the more he sounds like a petulant child who knows Hamilton’s better than him.

    1. Well, actually we don’t know why Hamilton hesitated. We just saw that he did.

      1. Come on – he’s comng up to the safety car, he’s got a split second to decide. All he’s thought is ‘do I overtake it or not’. No way has he had time to think ‘i’ll slow down just enough so Alonso can’t pass the safety car’ while at the same time judging it so passes the safety car just in time before it gets to the line.

        1. Interestingly, in the post-race press conference Hamilton himself does not admit to hesitating at all when he was asked directly. On the other hand, he was asked a string of questions with that being the last one, maybe he was answering the other questions only.

      2. Agreed, it is a pity that some always drag the past into the last race as if that would a cheater “less guilty”. A matter should be judged on what happened on the day and not while chewing old soup.

        I would love to see the telemetry of the incidence as it should clear the matter up for once and all.

        1. Alonso’s on board should also be revealing. I believe he thinks it was deliberate. Lewis is very sharp.

  61. I am quite unhappy about F1fantic Liveblog as when i was commenting there and stating the obvious that Alonso was very unhappy and that he was crying, i was given a warning. I mean look at him and Ferrari now. Aren’t they overreacting and crying more than necessary. These kind of things happen for example not so long ago in 2008 Singapore GP where Nico rosberg was also in a similar position, he was running P2 got a penalty but still kept P2. We didn’t hear others crying a lot about it.
    And talking about luck, what about Alonso himself in 2008 singapore GP, nobody questioned his win at that time. Okay maybe some little talk but nothing serious. Wasn’t he got extremely lucky(cheating actually) there.
    Also so many other drivers today were also found to break one or the other Safety car rules so why getting so frustrated at only one person. He also made mistake during safety car period just like many others.

    Hamilton took his penalty and because of Kobyashi he got lucky but Hamilton can’t control the luck. Alonso just wants Hamilton to do bad THAT IS IT.
    I was one of his big fans but not any more. The guy is only happy when everything is going okay otherwise just blame others especially Hamilton for no reason.

    Alonso needs to grow up. I would always say Alonso was crying crying and crying during and after the European GP. Now if somebody don’t like the truth than i can’t help it.

  62. Overtaking the safety car itself is a serious offence in any form of motor racing and should have been hit with a more serious penalty than a mere drive-through. Intent does not come into it, what Hamilton did could have been extremely dangerous. In situations such as these drivers should be encouraged to err on the side of caution rather than risk whatever they might be able to get away with.

  63. Agree. I have lost all respect for both Ferrari and Alonso. I think they should be made to apologise for the “scandal” reference. It was a slightly confusing incident which worked to their disadvantage – which was a shame. A scandal it was not.

  64. Well i’m sorry too Johan but please think about it for a moment…why would Lewis do that?? backing Alonso and risking his own race for a penalty..it’s a decision you have to take in a split second and so he did unlikely like Alonso who had the whole race the time to think about how to complain….and so what he was ninth??? I don’t remember Lewis was driving the Ferrari so how did he spoiled Alonso’s race? What did Alonso forgot how to overtake other people and fight back to the top?? I hope he learned from Kobayashi that he indeed can overtake in Valencia

    1. He would back Alonso up behind the SC while staying in front of the SC and so end up in a better position. I think he misjudged and got a late slap on the wrist 20 laps later. Obviously we cannot be sure about this before someone has a look at the telemetry. Somehow I doubt that Maca will publish the telemetry without the FIA asking for it. Remember Alonso was complaining about it while the SC was still on track.

  65. HAM came out to Alonso`s consternation in the same position, and then cryed for the rest of the race, He was taken by KOB in the last few laps an Massa came in nowhere, Apart from the Team wanting, there is a question in there Team Selection.

  66. Some good comments from planet-f1.com

    “This is the same Alonso that won in Singapore in 2008 entirely due to the safety car – which came out because his team-mate deliberatley crashed? Now THAT is what I call race manipulation.”

    “How can Alonso complain about a manipulation, when Ferrari MANIPULATED a photo shoot to become a TEST of their new exhaust system”

    “Ha Ha Ha. go Koby, show moaning Alonso how to overtake a Torro Rosso”

    Also add Belgium 2008, Ferrari was favoured. Hamilton got unlucky.

    Bottom line everybody gets lucky and unlucky at some races. Ferrari(and their drivers) have been lucky and favoured more than anybody else. Fact.
    So they shouldn’t complain when others get little lucky.

  67. What about the Ferrari ‘scandal’ Rubens barrichello in Michael Schumacher on the A1 grand prix….i’m sorry to go a long way back but if one wants to comment on the actions of another one should always have a look to itself before doing that

    1. With all respect…. What does that have to do with the current question?

      1. Double standards from Ferrari, as always, that’s what.

  68. More bleating from the red team!!! I honestly don’t think there was going to be an investigation had Alonso not moaned on the radio. Even after the penalty he was more interested in Hamiltons possition than his own…. How does the song go?? “Shut up and drive!”

    The fact is if Hamilton had not hesitated he would have crossed the line infront of the safety car anyhow… Vetel was past and did not get a penalty.

    Alonso would have not made it and the result would have been no different. The what if bregade can say what they want. The fact is Hamilton took a penalty and through a bit of luck kept his position. There was no big debate last year with Mark Webber when he aced his drive through and went on to win.

    For me we were robbed today of a Hamilton Vetel scrap that could have been really interesting. An other Valencia bore as a result.

  69. Well Lewis wasn’t that lucky at all if you think about it..if he hadn’t have got the penalty surely he would have give us a nice show as always..maybe winning the race or not..

    I guess we will have to wait for that a little longer

  70. Of course, my opinion might change if some McLaren radio traffic comes out instructing Hamilton to delay Alonso. Really wish Hamilton and McLaren could avoid controversy.

  71. The point was made by someone else.
    NASCAR picks up the leader with the pace car and everyone else ahead comes to the back of the field in order. Of course this is done under a full course yellow. Why does F1 have such issues with the SC. It is simple to fix.
    A) When a sc is necessary throw full course yellow. There is no passing at that point anywhere on track and speed is limited to X mph depending on the track. Pits are closed.
    B) SC picks up the leader.
    C) All those physically ahead of the leader can proceed under caution to the back of the field in the order they were in when the yellow was thrown thrown i.e. no passing unless a car pulls off the track with a failure.
    D) When the field is organized behind the leader pit open under yellow.
    E) When Race Control determines the track is once again safe it informs the teams when the SC will be coming off the track.
    F) There is to be no passing until the start finish line is crossed by any car.
    Why is this such a contraversy? Is the FIA and FOTA so stiff necked it cannot learn from other series?
    This is tedious.

    1. MacademiaNut
      27th June 2010, 23:48

      After all, F1 needs to learn a thing or two from Nascar. :)

  72. It is clear that these people do not know how to handle this championship. It is very sad to be arguing about all this. The rules are not clear, they make things up everytime there is some controversy, and it is continuos improvisation…
    So sad.

  73. FiA took only Five laps to penalize HAM after they viewed the incident. Not 15 or 30 as most people are saying

    Issues are FiA didn’t see the incident in first place
    Nine other cars should of had drive through penalties
    And Ferrari and Alonso need to stop getting so hung up on HAM and Mclaren and just go racing … jeez

    1. Also I do not like how this safety car is a lottery surely they should pick up the race leader and close the pits unless u go in before the safety car is deployed

  74. you’ll all be so happy when ferrari announce they are leaving at the end of 2012. it will be good for them too, they dont need formula one.

  75. Nice to see that the subject has been left alone in general. 160 plus comments, looks like there is something to defend……..

    1. I suppose when Ferrari shut up, we’ll all shut up.

  76. If the complaint had come from someone else, it would probably have been taken more seriously – but coming as it does from Alonso (“I don’t care what happens to Hamilton!”, “If it’s the only thing you guys do today, get on the stewards to punish Hamilton!”), one takes it with a pinch of salt.
    Having said that, the drive-through penalty robbed us of a real scrap for the winner’s position, and I am not too sure Vettel would have survived Lewis’ pressure.
    Meanwhile, as usual, no one is mentioning it, but Button drove a fantastic race – boring but steady, worked out in the end for him. I’d rather watch Lewis, though, anyday!

  77. Bartholomew
    27th June 2010, 19:53

    In the next few days Lou diMonty will step up to the microphone to rap about this subject.
    Independently of the rules, McLaren have a much better race management team than Ferrari. Telepathic influence from Ron in England reaches all the way to the race team and enhances their smartness.

  78. Too many comments in this post are anti-alonso, anti-ferrari, pro-uk. You should all be less biased and more objective.

  79. Alonso’s head is a shambles, McLaren and Hamilton should take every opportunity from here on out to ratchet up the pressure.
    He has cracked again. Sledge him, let’s see him pop wide-open.

    Ferrari PR has become a paddock joke, a complete joke. Assuming this latest sorry installment of petulant nonsense doesn’t all come from the top, (big assumption) then they need to clean shop and get a grip.

    They are supposed to be a grown-up professional sports organisation, they should be ashamed of themselves.
    They make themselves and an historical marque look and sound childish, spoiled and foolish.
    Not good, it’s much too embarrassing to watch.

  80. Funny thing is, Gary Anderson, who comments now on Star Sports knows and perhaps have forgotten more about F1 than many of us put together, considered this to be another incident which may be setting a precedent. Not my words, but they are his and anyone watching on Star Sports would know this as well. This was clearly an infringement, though it took Alonso’s call to team and then one from Ferrari to stewards. Whether or not Alonso called in on him is pointless, Hamilton did infringe. Mind you, i’m not yet calling it deliberate and i won’t unless i have proof for the same. At that point, Alonso was right on Hamilton’s tail when Hamilton went past the safety car. This did give him an advantage as Alonso ended up rather poorly and had Hamilton stayed there, he’d have been somewhere in the middle with Alonso (may be one or two places up), instead of running P2.

    Another thing that he cited was that the pit-lane is shorter than at many other tracks and instead of around 20 seconds that it takes for a driver through, it took only 14-15. At this point he went on to suggest a 20 second penalty to have been more appropriate, than a driver through.

    I was thinking that infringing safety rules in F1 would merit a stiffer penalty, both for the team and the driver. However, not having any knowledge of the penalties that could be imposed in such a scenario, where a team and driver infringe safety rules (i consider it to be a different scenario than merely infringing yet another rule)… i guess the stewards did what they had to work with.

    FIA however, should land one on the derrier of the Team McMerc and Hamilton, who has well, there’s no better way to put it, found himself gaining something from infringing rules… I mean, if it happened the first time, you could let it slide… then there was Canada :P

    Better race control is indeed the need of the hour.

    Oh yeah, Germany won… What a victory. What a shame that the ref didn’t notice the superb effort from Lampard though.

  81. This Grand Prix has really served to illustrate some of the flaws with the safety car system. To have a saftey mechanism effect a race so profoundly and arbitrarily is ludicrous. Perhaps it is time to review the safety car system, particularly now with refueling banned, I see no reason not to ban pitting while the safety car is out, after all the safety car is meant to keep marshalls safe until racing is able to be resumed, not to cause fundamental shifts in the race order.

    1. Jhonnie Siggie
      27th June 2010, 20:44

      Well said. Rather than dwell on the past and use loaded comments such as “manipulate races” they should look at how to improve the SC system.

  82. All of the non-anti Ferrari/Italy/justice comments come down ot this:
    Hamilton’s ability to reel off fastest laps in the time he had to serve his penalty, Kobayashi’s pinning down Button, Alonso inability to get past Sutil, Buemi, or anyone elase, should have been specifically negated by a penalty. Or, the rule book should have been thrown out that very moment.

    I suppose people are envisioning a Stewards room where they are staring at the GPS and saying, well, we should give a drive-through, per the book, per our discretion. But lets make sure he comes out where he would have been had he not passed the SC plus some measure of punitive effect, and somehow in a couple minutes of studying video, lap times, the Gita, the teachings of the Buddha and the parables of Christ, come up with a just and equitable penalty.

    You can quickly roll up a massive catalogue of time, drive-through, and stop/go penalties that were did not cancel some possible advantage. I recall Webber winning Nurburgring despite a drive-through for unsafe release, because he was so dominant that day. Where were the whigged and robed sages declaring that such a dangerous move really ought to get a greater demerit?

    The fact that Kobayashi dusted both him and Buemi at the end, should shame and muzzle Alonso. Kobayashi was on fresh tires. But the Japanese tyro drives a car that is mid-field at best, and the Ferrari had the highest trap speeds of qualifying. He is a great driver, but he showed a lack of game, a lack of focus, and lack of ability on the track today that was inexcusable.

    1. Jhonnie Siggie
      28th June 2010, 3:39

      Haha very nice post!

  83. I can understand Alonso’s frustration, but not his reaction. These sorts of wrinkles and on-the-edge incidents happen regularly; most drivers end up benefiting and losing out in equal measure over time. In the heat of the moment it is understandable to react with outrage, but to harp on about it lap after lap on his team radio reinforces my sense of him as a brilliant and passionate natural driver let down by immaturity, a growing persecution complex, and an obsession with Hamilton. That the wiser heads at Ferrari, far from calming him down, fueled the conspiracy theories reflected very poorly on them.

    A couple of posters have suggested that comments are in general biases anti Alonso and pro Hamilton and pro UK. It seems to be the majority of comments are indeed more or less defending Hamilton, but that this pretty much reflects the facts of the matter. If you want to see some real bias, on the other hand, you should check out what the Spanish F1 boards are saying about this…

    1. Schweinstiger
      27th June 2010, 22:38

      You’re wrong, sir. Spanish F1 boards have the same credibility as UK ones when Alonso or Hamilton is the related topic, that is none

  84. And Hamilton bullied Kobayashi into overtaking Alonso at the end. How evil can you get?
    Rubens has been the best of the “old timers” among these new vital young guys. Michael is suffering, Kimi already gone, Fernando cannot understand why the young guys are so much faster. Thankfully the penalty points allowed him to overtake Buemi. No other way.
    Now if Ferrari had screamed at Massa to follow Jenson and others into the pits when the SC had first deployed they might be looking at more points. But they had their eyes on their team leader.

    1. You do seem to enjoy dreaming up scenarios!

      Jenson was behind Massa, so any screaming would not have helped Massa to follow him into the pits.

  85. Fearlessferddy
    27th June 2010, 21:20

    It just reminds me why I no longer bother posting comments but some of those I’ve just read beg belief… I wonder what’s more upsetting to some: The fact that Ham got a drive through penalty for an infringement and then due to his good fortune (Kobayashi) and skills managed to still retain his position,or that he raced incredibly well today and to the disappointment of many excelled. I wonder if after taking the penalty he had ended up right at the back of the grid Ferrari and Alonso would have reacted differently. As for the man himself Fernando Alonso, there was nothing as disgraceful as hearing him cry over the radio for Ham’s head. The radio transmission confirming Ham was 2nd after the drive through penalty was just priceless.Great champions are graceful in defeat.FA a sportsman he is not. His obsession with LH will be his demise.

  86. Fernando has a lot of gall to blame the stewards for his own lackluster performance. After all he had to defend himself in front of his own fans. It couldn’t have been his fault, could it?

    You can tell when Ferrari are whining needlessly when Piero Ferrari feels the need to chime in; Luca will not be far behind with a comment.

  87. It was a pretty stupid mistake by Hamilton and it did take entirely too long for the stewards to make their decision but the fact of the matter is, Hamilton was punished. He lost 15+/- seconds with a drive through penalty, costing him a chance to fight Vettel for the race win. It was not his fault that Kobayashi was so slow and held up the rest of the pack enough so that Hamilton could get in and out in second.

    He broke a rule and paid for it, end of story.

    The only scandal is Ferrari and Alonso crying like a bunch of girls b/c luck went against them in the safety car shuffle and Hamilton’s punishment wasn’t enough in their eyes, even though it cost him a chance for the race win.

    Alonso and Ferrari need to grow up and grow a pair. You win some and you lose some.

  88. There is no doubt that the Ferrari rhetoric was over the top (“fake race” – whaat?) and I have a theory. I don’t think the Stewards saw anything wrong with Hamiltons actions at the time and it probably wasn’t until it was obvious that nil points were coming their way that they pointed out the incident to the Stewards – that’s why it took a long time, not because they took so long to decide but Ferrari took that long to complain. Hamilton served his penalty and it could have ended his race there and then, but he was lucky. You have to be lucky sometimes. It was so marginal anyway.

    Another issue that occurred to me was that the Pace Car was on the pit exit lane, not the actual racing part of the track (although I am quite sure in certain circumstances it does count as part of the track) and in that split second of indecision may have swayed Hamiltons judgement. Whatever, it was awful close and to suggest some kind of conspiracy is plainly ludicrous. If you had been watching F1 for over 50 years as I have, you will know that Ferrari are the biggest cheats and rule benders of all..so, what comes around etc. It’s all part and parcel of F1. Great race – well done Kob and Rubens..

  89. Talk about spitting the dummy. Hamilton’s reaction after the race – when told Alonso was angry at him – said it all: he all but asked if the interviewer was joking. Hamilton made a small misjudgement, he was fortunate enough not to be too harshly penalised for it… End of story, there’s no need for conspiracy theories. Pathetic from Alonso, pathetic from Ferrari.

  90. Alonso Follower
    27th June 2010, 21:40

    My only objection to Ferrari is that they are focusing just on the aspect of altering the result of the race, which is true. But the safety issue is much much worse.

    Airline pilots know this very well: safety procedures exist for a reason, and there are no shortcuts or clever workarounds. They know that a good portion of plane incidents are explained because some omission in applying them.

    F1 is a risky sport. Outside of Moto GP, climbing mountains or other sports considered “extreme” I cannot think of any other sport where the safety of the ones that take part on it is so compromised. Now picture this: a driver skips a rule related to a safety procedure and someone is harmed. How would then sound the comments that Hamilton made to the press?

    What is more aggravating is that this has not been committed by a rookie or an amateur driver, has been done on purpose by an otherwise skilled and competent driver. Who is too focused on winning at all costs, including the sport itself.

    Oh, and by the way, Alonso is not saying that he has a natural right to win or something like that. He’s just saying that the result is unfair. Which is.

    1. Yeah well, except that the safety car was waiving back markers through to form the group… so much for safety ay?

      1. 17 points in two races
        28th June 2010, 0:04

        Please, can anyone tell me if Charlie Whiting is the real father of LH?

        14 laps to decide it´s a lot of time.
        He was faster when Alonso break the rules at the start in another race.

        Charlie must be fired, right now!!!

    2. Ha i wondered why this opinion seemed so biased……..until i looked at your name.

  91. Here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKYyvHvO-jA

    It is clear that Hamilton did not hesitate at all. He slowed down on purpose so Alonso couldn’t get past the SC. Had he continued on the same pace, all three cars would have easily been able to get past the SC.

    I dont’ call that a small misjugment. I call that cheating.

    1. LOL

      It goes to slow mo 1 second into the overhead shot, you cant seriously think thats of any use??

    2. Quite right. No surprise that Hamilton cheats and gets away with it. The FIA in their current guise are a disgrace.

    3. If it was cheating he would have tried to get ahead of the safety car before the line to avoid a penalty, thats a no brainer. the fact that he went past the safety car after the the safety car line shows he didnt quite know what he was doing!

    4. It is clear that Hamilton did not hesitate at all. He slowed down on purpose

      How do you know he was not hesitating?

      And if he had the presence of mind to slow down on purpose to hold up Alonso, surely he would also have been able to make sure he was ahead of the safety car before the second safety car line?

      1. The guy is a WC. We’re not talking about Chandok or De Grassi. Sorry but I don’t buy the “he was hesitating” theory. That would not be the first time LH deliberately ruins another driver’s race. Ask Jarno Trulli.

        As much as like LH’s spectacular driving style, I just can’t stand it when he pulls off that kind of cheap move.

      2. What is interesting is that in the post-race press conference Hamilton himself denied he hesitated, when he was asked directly. (But who knows whether drivers are exactly answering the questions they are asked.)

        It certainly looked like he hesitated, for whatever reason.

    5. “I dont’ call that a small misjugment. I call that cheating.”

      If he was that clever in such a moment requiring a split second decision, I call it brilliant race craft:)

    6. This reminds me of one of my favourite quotes “Never blame on malice that which can adequately be described by incompetence”. And while I don’t think in this case it’s incompetence, it has illustrated flaws in the safety car rules. And instead of wild accusations, it should be taken as a motivation to make some changes to the safety car rules for the betterment of Formula 1. There have been many many fantastic suggestions in this thread on how to improve the Safety Car rules without compromising safety, hopefully the FIA and FOTA will be discussing some of them.

      1. Couldn’t agree more.

  92. Les be honest, Alonso wouldn’t be quite as bothered if it was anyone else except Hamilton :D

    And Ferrari talking about a race being a scandel is a laugh :D

  93. all this really does is highlights ferraris ignorance and immaturity, that they could moan over such a minor incident which was really just a bit of bad luck. Any other team who is not so bitter would have said, hey these things happen. what makes it worse is they make an attack on F1 on a whoele as a cry to make them seem more credible. Also trying to exaggerate this incedent giving the idea that many fans where in agreement with them.
    I think ferrari have choked over there run of bad performances and need something to take the pressure off themand are so babyish start crying over the fact lewis did better than them. All alonso was worried about was how hamilton was doing. all in all childish behaviour from ferrari over a situation which theyhave blown way out of proportion!

  94. Typical pro-McLaren bias from the FIA. And guess who’s stewarding – it’s Frentzen, a guy with close links to Mercedes and thus McLaren. The FIA at the moment are a farce, and Ferrari and Alonso are completely correct to describe the situation as scandalous.

    If it were me, I’d go a lot further and suggest that most of the FIA are on McLaren’s payroll.

    1. Coming from a ferrari fan..hahaha what is the world coming to. the fact that they seem bias to one team at one time but then to another team at another time shows they are completely neutral. if they where mclaren biased he wouldnt have had a penalty.

    2. Rohan, you have to be joking. You realize that Jean Todt is the president of the FIA. Your statement is so utterly ridiculous that I have to assume that you are being sarcastic.

    3. Typical pro-McLaren bias from the FIA.

      A short memory there. This ‘pro-McLaren bias’ wasn’t much in evidence when Hamilton was stripped of his win at Spa two years ago.

      1. Smart move and undeservedly punished. Bias? Incompetence? Fixing? Take a pick!

    4. Are you serious with

      Typical pro-McLaren bias from the FIA

      The same team that lost the Spa 2008 race by a penalty for something not previously cleared by any rules.
      And getting a 100 million fine for being in possesion of Ferrari data and probably looking into it with very curious ruling by the FIA, while Renault gets off the hook without any penalty only months later?

  95. Ferrari are laying it on a bit thick but ultimately I think you have to feel a little sorry for them. They were spectacularly unlucky – theirs were the only drivers to get stuck behind the safety car before pitting.

    Not just Alonso but Massa as well who was double-hit because he had to queue up in the pits. Massa was only 1.8 seconds ahead of Kubica but that was the difference between Massa getting the message too late to pit and Kubica just making it in time.

    Without the combined circumstances of Kobayashi staying out and holding up the chasing pack, Valencia having the shortest pit lane on the calendar, and the stewards taking too long to penalise Hamilton, Hamilton would never have been able to take his penalty without losing a place.

    Change just one of those three aspects and Hamilton would have ened up much further down the field.

    It shows up shortcomings in the rules and the stewarding process. I can understand the frustration of Ferrari fans but I think trying to ascribe any of this to some pro-Hamilton/McLaren motive at the FIA is an overreaction – especially when one recalls some of the swingeing penalties doled out to that team in recent years.

    What offends me about Alonso’s reaction, however, is that he only cares for the integrity of the sport when it suits him. He was right to criticise the joke of a penalty he got at Monza in 2006 and clearly the system failed today. But where was his concern for the reputation of F1 after the Singapore 2008 scandal came to light?

    1. very well said! congratz

    2. MacademiaNut
      27th June 2010, 23:13

      Well said.

      If it was not for Alonso’s insistence that Ferrari should talk to Charlie, this incident would not have been noticed by the stewards.

      Anyways, all these incidents give an opportunity for FIA to identify the weak spots in the rules/race control; and importantly learn from these. However, the FIA would never do.

      This incident clearly calls for changes to how a safety car is deployed. Shouldn’t the safety car pick up the leader of the race?

    3. There are certainly shortcomings in the rules about bringing in Safety Cars. They seem to fixate on rules about this line and that line, forgetting the purpose of safety. It appears cars are allowed to accelerate (as Hamilton said he did) even when it is known that the Safety Car is about to enter the track and presumably there are yellow flags out. Whatever happened to keeping the cars in the same order at a controlled speed until the track is clear for racing?

      And why does it take so long to check out an infringement? Did they really have to wait for a complaint before noticing?

    4. David Watkins
      27th June 2010, 23:17

      Par for the course in Spain Keith. Same in every sport. They’re always the victims.

      Alonso just reflects this

  96. Those are the rules. Maybe Ferrari now knows how Adrian Sutil felt back in Monaco in 2008.

  97. I think they took a while to make a decision for two reasons. One there was a lot going on due to the crash.

    Secondly Hamilton and the Safety Car crossed the line at almost the same time because Hamilton hesitated for a split second. I wonder if they deliberated for a while to decide if he really deserved a penalty. Liken it to an accidental handball. It was such a marginal error.

    It did cost Hamilton the opportunity to challenge for the win.

  98. Someone please remind Alonso of Singapore 2008.

    1. Alonso didn´t crash, was piquet, alonso simply won a fantastic race starting 15
      hamilton never remember. he is a great liar

  99. Hamilton is a liar inthe video we can see how fisrt Han slows his speed to avoid Alonso pass the safety car. Then Hamilton accelerate and pass the safety. Hamilton would be give a black flag.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZfUwGvUOaE

  100. If anyone got off lightly, it surely wasn’t Hamilton, but Vettel. Considering the quarter of a second between himself and the safety car, and the time he spend in the pitlane Hamilton got off 50 times as worse. (12/0.250 = roughly 50) I’m actually very surprised everyone is pointing the finger at him. It was Alonso who raised this minor infraction. History (2007) should explain this attitude, as does his uneasy feeling throughout the whole race, as team radio broadcasts can testify.

    Besides, has Alonso forgotten his 2008 Singapore win? When questioned if he still counted that as a win, he said yes because one still had to make an effort to finish the race. So if he counted that as a win, how can something SO LESS SEVERE be dubbed as a farce and scandal? The answer is Ferrari do so, in order to divert the media from uncovering their own weaknesses. To put it more poetically, it’s the same of old story of the horse (donkey) blaming his tail for what he did wrong. Just pathetic.

  101. I have to agree about Ferrari’s comments about American racing.

    Race control was a total and utter disgrace for the second time this year. A pace car doesn’t get deployed at random. It waits for the leader and then the pack groups behind him (in this case, Vettel, not Hamilton or Alonso).

  102. Peter Hermann
    28th June 2010, 0:37

    This is not about Singapore 2008. Two wrongs don’t make one right.

    This race has been a slap into the face of every true f1 fan. Exactly after what happened at Singapore, every true f1 fan should get furious about seeing another race manipulation. There is nothing to defend the undefendable.

    In Canada Hamilton was allowed to keep his pole despite of the obvious cheating. Now in Valencia he was cheating again and though he again got a punishment, race control (aka Charlie Whiting) made sure it wouldn’t make him lose a position.

    The McLaren fans might love this. But if that is the way you want Hamilton to win another championship: you can keep it and be happy with it. Just give it to him right away and spare us the farce of manipulated races.

    I’m not even a Ferrari fan. They cheated enough in the past, but i thought it was time things would change after Schumacher left.

    But things didn’t change. Only the names of the teams/drivers who now benefit from ‘special decisions’ of the stewards.

    Whiting must go. He is the one responsible. It wasn’t enough to get rid of Donelly. They cut an arm but they kept the head.

    As long as Whiting will be there nothing will change. And i’d rather go and watch wrestling, at least they don’t even pretend its for real.

    Everyone who thinks that this race outcome was for real, should not call himself a fan of the sport. They are fans of a wrestling event. All planned ahead.

    No way i will waste my money to go and see another farce. For me, F1 is dead, and it was buried today.

    1. All planned ahead.

      If you’re suggesting the FIA deliberately gave Hamilton as lenient a penalty as possible then I think you are completely wrong. We’ve seen several times in the past how slowly stewards take to make decisions like these. Especially when, as yesterday, they’re also investigating multiple other potential infractions.

      If there was a desire to let Hamilton off, then they simply would not have penalised him at all.

      Don’t forget Hamilton’s penalty did cost him. He was very quick at the end of the race and the penalty prevented him from being able to challenge Vettel for the win.

  103. I get the frustration that the penalty was late and that Hamilton wasn’t properly punished, but it wouldn’t have fixed the Ferrari’s problems, they’d inherit one place tops, they had some awful bad luck, but these things happen, others have been disadvantaged by a safety car before, and Alonso should know the benefits that can come from a safety car too ;)

    Another point is that had Lewis not slowed then either Alonso would have come out side by side with the safety car or Massa, and therefore getting a penalty them-self (although probably not as no one would have complained).

    1. “and that Hamilton wasn’t properly punished, but it wouldn’t have fixed the Ferrari’s problems”

      In the long run it would haveb helped. Their main championship contender got 2nd while they got practically nothing. That’s why they’re fuming.

      “Another point is that had Lewis not slowed then either Alonso would have come out side by side with the safety car or Massa” Which then they could pass and presumeably end up just behind Hamilton. A big if but certainly would have gave them a better chance

      1. No, what I meant was either of the Ferrais could have ended up overtaking the safety car, so by their own standards they’d have got a drive through.

        Hamilton got a penalty, he served it. Granted he got it later than you might expect but they were probably trying to decide whether it was deliberate and such. Also like Keith said, the drive through cost him the chance to challenge for a win, and we’ve seen Vettel make errors when being challenged so who knows, Hamilton could have walked away with a handful more points had he not been penalised.

  104. when the yellow flags come out there is no overtaking so you hold positions right?

    when safety car is deployed you still holed positions right?

    so why not after pitting you resume the same positions?

    boring but simple if you ask me.

    1. Then that would hugely favor the teams that for some reason or not had not yet made their pit stop.

      These SC rules aren’t so easy as people wants to believe if they are to be fair

  105. Why do we even need a safety car? All it does is cause problems and bunch people us so there can be more accidents on restart.

    A full-course speed limit with no overtaking is easily implemented with current technology. Once the cars are slowed down to (say) the pit-lane speed limit (they typically travel faster than that behind the SC anyway), then the marshalls can remove debris free from worry.

    With a full-course speed limit drivers would retain the gaps they have relative to each other. It other words the race result wouldn’t be artificially changed.

    1. Hmmm good point. I’m racking my brains as to why they couldn’t, there must be a reason but I’m tired as it’s 2am and can’t think. All that comes to mind is behind the safety car the cars follow closely meaning there’s a a big gap between first round to last for the stewards to clear the track, but I can see no reason why the cars can’t get close themselves by going slightly faster around the clear bits of track in order to catch the car in front.

      Makes you think there must be a reason though if all the motorsports use a safety car…

      1. Well there used to be a reason. We didn’t have GPS, or split sector times, or radar guns when the Safety Car idea was first come up with.

        The vast majority of the time, a big gap to clear debris is not really needed. Double-waved yellows means marshals on track. And if the drivers are doing the pit-lane speed, and see these flags there should never be any danger to the marshals. They could also receive radio direction from race control via the radio, for example, “debris in turn 13, pass to the right.”

        Besides the safety car takes a large chunk of time to create that big gap, because people tend to pit and then race back to the chain to make up the time. By the time everyone is in a line the debris/trapped car has usually been cleared anyway.

        Sometimes the track can become completely blocked, but under that situation the race is supposed to be red-flagged anyway, rather than a safety car used. The only time an SC is an advantage is when the main straight is blocked and the SC is allowed to take the cars through the pit lane.

  106. Unfortunately I could only see the four hour delayed FOX tape of the race, -which in retrospect is probably why F1 is not popular in the US!! Apart from harping on about how the US was robbed in the world cup by a “disallowed” goal -the commentators were blatently pro everyone except Hamilton, who they called a “cheat”.
    As everyone knows the US cannot win anything without a “judge” -or an unfair advantage but my concern is that I have no choice but to watch the FOX broadcast in two weeks if I want to see Silverstone!
    To me Hamilton clearly was not certain what to do – but imagine if he had been ahead and did not go for it what the team would have said!!
    Why is not simply that the pace car picks up the leading car -and if it is deployed late it has to
    overtake the cars in front of it under the yellow and until it does so & passes the pits in the lead – no pitting is allowed until the next lap??

  107. Keith,

    regarding Singapore Alonso clearly stated his position: ‘I risked my life that day as in any other race’ Judge that as you wish, but that sentence sums it all, and I believe him.

    Today we saw, again, a man apparently specialized in ‘bending’ the rules, ‘again’, being ‘lucky’, once again.

    By the way, Hamilton had to change front wing during pitstop… Quite a good reason to… ‘hesitate’.

    Keep the good work anyways Keith.
    Cheers.

  108. Ferhahahahari
    28th June 2010, 3:09

    Alonso deserves some credit. It must be vewy scawy faw a wittle girl competing at this level

  109. Prisoner Monkeys
    28th June 2010, 3:09

    I still think Ferrari brought those penalties down on the other drivers because they didn’t like the way Hamilton’s situation was handled. They expected to be racing Hamilton after the stops, and when they weren’t, they decided to bring about action from the stewards in the hopes of getting nine twenty-five second penalties issued, which would have promoted Alonso to fourth. That someone would be willing to alter the race outcome like that just because one ruling didn’t go their way really rankles. There’s your disgrace, Ferrari. It’s you.

    1. I agree, I beieive that the in-lap speeds where typical of other GP. Exept no one thought to complain in previous GP.

      I assume that the reason for the low penalties was more to stop other teams from trying this tactic to gain places in the future.

      They were caught doing 31 in a 30 zone. Technically against the rules but so minor it doesn’t affect safety.

    2. “I still think Ferrari brought those penalties down on the other drivers because they didn’t like the way Hamilton’s situation was handled”

      Well maybe but the fact is if a team complains it should be looked in to. If rules are broken they should be punished. There’s no way to spin that.

      Ferrari’s attitude may not have been to your liking but if all the other cars hadn’t ahve breached the rules then surely they wouldn’t have been punished? Or if no-one bothered to notice and they got away with it then that isn’t the best example either.

  110. How unfair is it that the driver who qualified third, took second place off the line and had the pace to challenge for the win should end up finishing on the podium

    /sarcasm

    Seriously, fans bitch and moan when the safety car interferes with the result but apparently only when it affects their favorite driver? 2nd was Hamilton’s rightful place to the take given the pace he had and the race he was driving. It was unlucky for Alonso to have been stuck behind the safety car for sure but to whine about Hamilton is simply schadenfreude. What if the safety car had come out five seconds earlier and caught Vettel. Would a result of Vettel 8th, Hamilton 9th, Alonso 10th be a fair result? Would a Button race victory in a weekend he was out-qualified by a Renault and two Ferrari’s be more justified than Hamilton’s 2nd?

    Why didn’t Fernando Alonso call F1 a scam and cut up his superlicense when he learned he only won the Singapore Grand Prix as a result of the most deliberate race fixing scandal the sport has seen in decades?

    Fernando should take the advice of his race engineer.

    Matt
    Australian Autosport Community

    1. Matt, did Hamilton pass thew safety car after the line?

      if so, then why did they wait so long to penalise him?

      It doesn’t matter what his “rightful place” was. that’s just a load of rubbish, they should have penalised him straight away and that would put Hamilton behind Alonso.

      If you can’t see why Alonso is upset you are blind.

      1. Prisoner Monkeys
        28th June 2010, 4:58

        I’m willing to bet the stewards took their time about it because they were debating whether Hamilton knew he was breaking a rule. The incident happened practically on top of the safety car line, and drivers can only see the tops of their wheels – they can’t actually see the nose of the car. So it stands to reason that Hamilton couldn’t see the line at all when he physically passed the safety car. I’m willing to bet that the stewards debated this and questioned whether Hamilton knew he had done something wrong.

        1. I agree, But, if it is how you said it, then Alonso has every right to be angry.
          That’s the thing I was at least trying to highlight.

        2. The intent doesn’t really matter though. I think that’s why the stewards took so long too but the rule was broken and very clearly whether he meant it or not. They can’t read his mind so they should have just dealt with what they could see. I understand what they were trying to do though and I genuinely don’t think ti was deliberate but that’s just speculation.

          1. I think Whiting explains here http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns22390.html , why it happend like it happend (after Webber flying and before the incident took place) and the reason of reacting only after some time.

            The delay in penalising Hamilton was because Whiting and the stewards wanted to be absolutely sure that a penalty was justified. Hamilton at first seemed to slow down when he saw the Safety Car out of the corner of his eye, then realised that the Safety Car line was further up the road and carried on. Whether he got there before the Safety Car or not, was a close call.

            Proving it was no simple matter. Race control has the use of a GPS system but there was no back-up timing loop at that point and so they had to find footage of the incident. That was initially from the wrong angle and was inconclusive and so they had to locate aerial footage. There was also the question of exactly where the timing transponders were on Hamilton’s car and the Safety Car respectively which, if you are talking about less than a car’s length, is significant. That all needed to be checked and speeds/distances ratified.

  111. Ferhahahari
    28th June 2010, 3:22

    Well said Matt. Perhaps another solution would be to give the italians an additional 10% engine capacity. It certainly made their motorcycles seem competetive. What a crock of poo.

  112. Sadly the point here is being sorely missed…

    Of course Hamilton did not try to keep Alonso behind on purpose. But, Hamilton clearly broke a rule, and should have been penalised straight away, it wasn’t a did he or didn’t he moment, he clearly passed the safety car after the line.

    So who is at fault? the stewards, If they had got their act together and penalised him straight away, he would have dropped back a lot, and the penalty would not be another minor “controversy”.

  113. Ferhahahari
    28th June 2010, 3:52

    It just nice chatting with sensible ppl about my love for F1. I fondly recall the days when ferrari were revered rivals, but sadly, I have come to the realisation that without the the sheer genius of the schumi of old, their true colors are shining thru. This is just another case of drooling little babies throwing a tantie when their fia cronies didnt load the dice in their favor. Welcome to the real world, its about time McLaren benefit from fia decisions, for years we have been racing their decisions alone. In outright racing car terms McLaren knocks seven sorts of snot out of anything else. Before fernando has (the borrowed) balls to call anyone a cheat, a long hard look in the mirror would be in order. The end

  114. He really hates Lewis does`nt he ? I have only just realised how much damage Hamilton did to Alonso in 2007. Well, he damaged McLaren and he has damaged F1. Alonso has made rods for own back with his past behaviour, and he, like Schumacher, deserves everything he gets in my opinion. He should be concentrate on raising his own game, not trying to get Lewis penalised.

  115. So. Another scenario: Hamilton doesn’t brake as he sees the safety car and goes through. Alonso follows. He misses crossing the line before the safety car by a few feet. The SC and stewards don’t notice anything untoward.

    I’m trying hard to convince myself Alonso would have called his team on the radio to complain he’d overtaken the SC, receives the penalty, but complains he’d received it too late, and then gets out of the car, picks up his 3rd place trophy, climbs down from the podium and exclaims to the media his 3rd place has been manipulated, while Ferrari complain bitterly of the scandal they’ve caused.

    Sure fire certainty that one…

    1. This is what I mentioned above, you just put it a lot better haha.

      1. Sorry Katy! Read it now. Agree totally. The point is that Alonso seems to have been annoyed that Hamilton slowed down and stopped him from passing. He might have complained if he’d overtaken the safety car only, but been so annoyed? Only because he thought Hamilton did something to him personally. So if that’s the case, he thought *he* had a chance of getting past too. Which is precisely your point above: if so, it would have been marginal at best. But Alonso would have tried anyhow. So why all the *apparent* umbrage from FA and Ferrari about a rule infringement Alonso himself would (presumably, on evidence) have been happy enough to risk?

        And in all of this I find it bizarre that Ferrari are *mad* at Hamilton’s advantage in the race, but not Vettel’s. The SC should have come out before them both and ruined everyone’s race equally! That’s what it’s there for :0)

  116. Agreed, the Stewards took a bit of time to decide the punishment, but then they always do. And for Alonso’s criticism, it’s not like Hamilton knew Kobayashi will come 3rd when the safety car pits and will block the rest of the crowd.
    It’s just a sad day for Alonso. But Ferrari is just furious it’s losing control over Formula 1. They do not have the right to call Formula 1 a scandal.

  117. Question: Is there sum rule which states that once the penalty has been declared, it has to be done instantly? or it can be done anytime in the course of the race?

    1. I think if you’re given a drive through you can only cross the finish line twice, then you have to go through the pits.

      I think it’s been controversial before, I assume it was Schumacher who got one a couple of laps from the end and drove through the pits on the last lap crossing the line in the pits. That might be wrong though as I have a terrible memory!

  118. justdrivewhiner
    28th June 2010, 5:51

    so alonso, next time you should put bombs on the cars in front of you. and take the title…. :))

  119. i seriously think ALO hates HAM… HAM destroyed him both mentally n reputation in 2007. A double World Champ being owned by then a rookie in his first year in f1 is simply not acceptable to the demanding ALO.. he is simply possessive. If he wins this race, he simply cant be bothered with HAM passing or not passing the SC.

    It is obvious he is worried that HAM will get away with the pts he doesnt get. This is called envy. which is ” if i dont get it, no one else would”. I guess theres plenty of evidence to show that in yest race.

    He started off the whole think of the SC, keeps calling on pit radio, to ask Ferrari to complain to charlie Whiting.

    Then he got the response that they r investigating (ALO kept quiet fr a while), an later an drive through penalty for HAM, so ALO thinks, hmm ok at least he got a penalty.

    After 3 -4 laps of the Drive thrgh penalty, he calls ferrari again, “heys, wheres HAM???!”Simply,because he cant see him in his mirrors or infront of him

    Ferrari responded ” He did the drive thrgh, came out as 2nd again, no position lost”
    He shouted across the radio “Hey this is really not fair, blar blar blar .”.Ferrari knew they cldnt do anything else since HAM served his race penalty and the SC controversy was “over” in terms of racing rule

    So now, they come to the media and blast all over the radios, tv and papers that it was a scandal huh?!. Ferrari “rocks” man. Anything that is controversial but with them gaining advantage is NOT controversial. The Schu era, all those ferrari related scandals, where theres too many to mention. Those race fixing , where they ask barrichelo to slow down for schu to win? The schu famous monaco incident, their obvious but kept insistence of no kerbs in Indianapolis to disallow Michellin tyre teams race, and so much more.

    So ultimately, i have one conclusion. Ferrari did build F1 , but it is also destroying f1.

  120. Accidental Mick
    28th June 2010, 7:35

    Posting this on Monday so I hope everybody has calmed down:-)

    Yes, it took the stewards 14 laps to issue Ham’s penalty but am I correct in thinking that it took Ferreri 9 laps to make the initial protest? If that is so, the stewards acted quite promptly.

    The safety car was the problem. I quite like the idea, suggested in a different post, (sorry not to give appropriate credit) of doing away with the safety car and, instead, remotely imposing the pit lane limiter.

  121. I’m really disappointed in all you anti-MacLaren/Hamilton conspiracy theorists out there! No-one has picked up on the obvious MacLaren team orders that kept Button from pressuring Kobayashi into faster laptimes. Oviously this was intentional to keep the field (and Alonso in particular) back far enough for Hamilton to serve his penalty without losing position.
    I know from your posts that MacLaren’s pampered baby can’t really race and has only won one WC and is leading this one through team orders, other teams co-operating by letting him pass, manipulation by the FIA, and, probably, interventions by a malign supernatural power. So get with it guys! Don’t let MacLaren slip such an obvious ploy past you!

  122. I know the Oz race feed is slightly different to the others (even though its the BBC feed) because of our ad breaks, own commentators etc, but I only heard two comments from Alonso about this. The initial one which alerted everyone to the problem, and then another one querying if Hamilton had served the drive through, and if so what was the result. Didn’t sound like whinging to me. Perhaps there was more to it that I didn’t hear?

    And certainly the quote above which refers to ‘farcial’ is not from Alonso himself, but Ferrari. And Alonso only mentions Hamilton at the end, and if read properly seems to be more of a criticsm of the speed with which race control dealt with the issue, rather than at Hamilton himself. If you are going to take issue with what has been said like so many have here, at least make sure you are directing your ire at the right person.

  123. Well, overtaking under safety car we’ve seen before, but overtaking the safety car itself is surely a first

  124. Ferhahahari
    28th June 2010, 9:15

    Whaaaaaaaaaa! Lewis beat me again! Whaaaaaaaaa

    1. A productive way to spend your time – congratulations.

  125. Jesus, Ferrari really are crap aren’t they- they can’t take it on the chin, they have to keep whining and whinging.

    Funny how neither them or Schumacher can’t win now they have no Veto?

    Advice for Ferrari and Alonso- MAN-UP.

    Obbo- what are you talking about?

    Maybe you think McLaren should be banned for a race because Button didn’t try to pass?
    Then what is Alonsos excuse?

    1. @Bernification: Guess you didn’t get the joke then? Reference to ‘malign supernatural intervention’ was a kinda clue!
      I was having a dig at the sort of straws the anti-Macca guys clutch at.

      1. Haha oooh it was a joke, I read it and was a bit shocked, I was going to comment but thought against it as I thought it might start an argument. Now I know it’s tongue in cheek, phew!

  126. Alonso will always commented sarcastically that if Hamilton wins, it’s not a secret anymore. Alonso knows that the only person who could beat him only Hamilton, Alonso’s class racer unfortunately crybaby ….

  127. I Think that Alonso has undergone a great injustice today. Hamilton not only is bad pilot of races. Charlie Whiting is a commissioner who takes part. Formula one every day is looked but like pressing Catch.

    1. asi se habla shaggy

  128. i nearly fell off my chair when i saw Lewis come back out in front of Kobayashi, in other words it cost him 12secs so what.

    if the safety car had picked up Vettel when it should have it would have been a total shambles, as now Kobayashi would have been leading the charge to near the end till he had to pit.

  129. Hamilton has done all this leaving unpunished. This is bad for the sport. In the end he will be the same to see F1 that to see Pressing Catch.

    Malaysian GP
    5 changes of direction when Petrov tried to advance Reprimand to him by dangerous conduction.

    GP China
    To cross pit-lane over the zone of security in parallel with Vettel Reprimand by dangerous conduction.

    GP Canada
    3 infractions: To lower of the car in march, to push it by the track and not to arrive at the zone of verification in minimum time.
    Economic fine and reprimand
    To cross pit-lane over the zone of security in parallel with Alonso None

    GP Europe
    To advance to the Safety-car. Symbolic Drive through

    I´m sure that Hamilton is the new Schumacher… but only for the illegal actions, and the permissiveness of FIA.

  130. Alsonso should just continue to drive, because when he is blowing up he is worthless on the track. Instead of trying to get buemi like Sutil he just drove behind him al the time. Even koboshasi went past him if he wasn’t there…

  131. I bet sc rules will be extended after LH rules understanding way.

    Allways the same…LH takes advantage after breaking rules, and rule modificaton following.

    How many times have we seen this befor? I’ve just counted 3.

  132. maestrointhesky
    28th June 2010, 12:45

    It’s a shame that no one in the Ferrari team displayed any concern about Webber or Kovalainen following thier horrific accident!

  133. cigamosnola
    28th June 2010, 12:51

    They are outrageous decisions made by the FIA, yesterday showed that the F-1 is no longer a sport.

    I think Fernando said too little in their statements.

  134. Alonso failed to beat Hamilton during Hamilton’s rookie year, and he can’t do that now. If he is a race driver of two championships, the he must know how he earned them. Talk about scandal, what about Singapore 2008?? Yesterday, Alonso was just trying to impress his fans at home but he failed and now pours all his frustration on Hamilton. That pass by KOB was awesome, I think it made everything worse. Alonso simply failed to impress at home and he had to say something to his fans. Hamilton saved his penalty and still came out 2nd whilst Alonso was having a miserable time behind that Force India.

  135. Apart from the radio message from Alonso, which was a little hard to make out, I didn’t really know what had happened until they announced Hamilton was under investigation and showed the TV footage.

    Before that I was wondering how even though before the Safety Car Vettel, Hamilton and Alonso had been pretty close on track but when they came in to the pits there was a big gap between Hamilton and Alonso.

    Did the TV director not realise anything had happened until the investigation was announced?

  136. There are a couple of things to consider here:

    Precedence has shown that the penalty for overtaking the usual penalty for overtaking the safety car is disqualification (See: Hamilton, 2006) Except in marginal cases (See: GP2, portugal 2009)

    So race control not only had to sort out Webber/Kovalainen and safety car procedures (rather than say, possible penaaltys), this and people speeding through the safety car period. So a delay is understandable, and entirely normal, it seems. But also the degree of penalty – Hamilton was, after all, next to the the car as it passed over the line.

  137. Hi! I read another translation of Alonso’s words, where “this kind of race” was rather “a manipulated race”. It seems to be the correct translation, as apparently Domenicali said that Ferrari does not believe the race was manipulated, and that Alonso probably said that due to his deep deception.

    But, hey, if Alonso says the race was manipulated, maybe we should believe him, no? The guy seems to know a whole lot about this… :-)

    It’s funny how some drivers are considered as saints whatever they may do, and others as devils. Alonso had many a bad sentence, toward the FIA, other drivers, or its own team (like, e.g., saying that the Renault team will cost him the title when they had badly screwed a wheel, provoking his *first* give-up of the season 3 races before the end!!!).

    Anyway, I guess we find ideology driven people everywhere, including F1 specialists. Actually, what I’d like to see some guys not supporting anything or anyone, just enjoying to watch races, beautiful passes, brakes, driving, set-ups…

  138. Mommy Vettel hit me!…………..did you hear that?

    Schumi passes a competitor in Monaco and what happens?
    Lewis passes a SAFETY car and what happens?

    1. It’s pretty standard for drivers to let their teams know when they suspect they have car damage, so the team can prepare for a pit stop. Bruno Senna probably should have done it on Sunday…

  139. Fia gives your wins

  140. Black Flag for Hamilton!!!

  141. The f1 is no longer sport

  142. With Hamilton I am ashamed to be English.
    Hurray Button!!!

  143. te haminton is crazy but he safe car is illegal.
    fernado alonso winer jajajaja
    hijos de puta

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