Ten drivers get penalties, Alonso and Rosberg gain extra points (Updated)

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Nine drivers have been handed time penalties after the European Grand Prix.

All the drivers investigated for the speed behind the safety car received five-second penalties: Jenson Button, Nico H???lkenberg, Rubens Barrichello, Robert Kubica, Vitaly Petrov, Adrian Sutil, Vitantonio Liuzzi, Sebastien Buemi and Pedro de la Rosa.

Timo Glock also got a 20 second penalty for ignoring blue flags.

The penalties promote Fernando Alonso ahead of Buemi and Nico Rosberg claims the final point instead of Pedro de la Rosa.

Update: the stewards explained the punishments as follows:

The Stewards received a report from the Race Director regarding [the cars] failing to stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU when the Safety Car was deployed,

The Stewards met with the [drivers and team representatives], considered the evidence and decided that this was a breach of Article 40.7 of the 2010 Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Article 40.7 of the sporting regulations says:

All competing cars must then reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart. In order to ensure that drivers reduce speed sufficiently, from the time at which the ??SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED?? message is shown on the timing monitors until the time that each car crosses the first safety car line for the first time, drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU.

Nico Rosberg escaped a penalty for a similar infringement in the Japanese Grand Prix last year when the stewards decided he had not been able to see the target lap time.

Here is the revised finishing order of the race:

Pos. # Driver Team
1 5 Sebastian Vettel Red Bull
2 2 Lewis Hamilton McLaren
3 1 Jenson Button McLaren
4 9 Rubens Barrichello Williams
5 11 Robert Kubica Renault
6 14 Adrian Sutil Force India
7 23 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber
8 8 Fernando Alonso Ferrari
9 16 Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso
10 4 Nico Rosberg Mercedes
11 7 Felipe Massa Ferrari
12 22 Pedro de la Rosa Sauber
13 17 Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso
14 12 Vitaly Petrov Renault
15 3 Michael Schumacher Mercedes
16 15 Vitantonio Liuzzi Force India
17 25 Lucas di Grassi Virgin
18 24 Timo Glock Virgin
19 20 Karun Chandhok HRT
20 21 Bruno Senna HRT
21 18 Jarno Trulli Lotus

2010 European Grand Prix

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151 comments on “Ten drivers get penalties, Alonso and Rosberg gain extra points (Updated)”

  1. 5 second-penalties? What a joke…

    1. Why is that?
      How much did they gain with what they did? More than 5sec?

      1. if there’s a SC period, it’s because something’s happening on the track… you cannot go flat out, as there might be people working on track…

        it’s not safe… 5 secs penalty isn’t a penalty… i didn’t know they were allowed to send 5 secs penalties… why didn’t MSC got a 5 sec penalty at Monaco then? they handed him a 20 sec penalty because they said it was the only thing they could give him, as they cannot impose position penalties.

        20 secs is like a drive through. 5 secs is like nothing!

        1. Yeah I agree. I actually thought the schumacher penalty was fair if it was the only thing they could possibly give him as I thought they had no choice but to obey the rules in front of them… but after tweaking set in stone penalties for this incident it was obviously unfair. So much for fair stewarding!

          1. Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. I thought SC incidents were supposed to be treated more seriously, hence Schumacher’s penalty at Monaco. These drivers should have been treated the same.

          2. Its called ‘pro’ stewarding. Like the refs in pro wrestling. One guy gets disqualified for a foreign object in the ring. When another wields a baseball bat and wins the championship.

            Same thing here. It’s all ‘for the show’. The rules are made up as we go along.

        2. According to the rule they failed to stay ABOVE the the MINIMUM time set. In other words they drove to SLOWLY.
          Not knowing the exact distance between the cars etc (because it was failed to be shown on TV) some of the penalties might been unfair handed out because another driver caught up with driver in front of him driving to slow and causing himself to drive to slow to obey the no overtaking rule. One would assume this was made sure wasn’t the case but after all it’s FIA we are talking about so that thought might never crossed their minds..

          1. “According to the rule they failed to stay ABOVE the the MINIMUM time set. In other words they drove to SLOWLY.”

            No, falling below (or failing to stay above) a mimimum time means they were driving too fast.

        3. Did you hear Jenson explaining his situation in the press conference? He got the message with one corner to go so only sudden and massive braking in a high speed turn would have had him stay in that time.
          Certainly no bigger penalty would have been appropriate. Maybe it was likewise for most others as well. And it did get Alonso another place.

          1. Fair enough…

            But there was a better explanation at Monaco with the Schum-overtaking manouvre… even if FIA admited the rules weren’t clear enough, they handed him a 20 sec penalty…

            but for breaking the rules (they did it… call it whatever you want, but they did it) they only got 5 secs penalties? half a race where nobody knew where they would eventually be classified…

            isn’t there just ONE set of penalties FIA can impose? why creating a new one if they didn’t do it at Monaco?

      2. After the Schumacher incident I accepted 20s as a penalty because it was said that 20 or 25 seconds are their only options. Now they invent a new option .. FIA is a joke ..

        1. They have been doing this for 60 years and the FIA still cannot figure this out. They need to keep the same stewards from race to race. The fact that the FIA has different (local) stewards for each race leads to inconsistencies that make the sport look like a joke.

          This race in terms of race directorship and stewarding was a disaster. Todt must figure out how to fix this!!

          1. it’s not stewards who are the problem. The problem’s name is Charlie Whiting, race director. He notifies stewards about who did breach the rules.

            Too often his decisions allow Hamilton to gain positions and his eventual “punishments” are a joke.
            The list is pretty long now: waving from Petrov in Malaysia (punishment: unporty behavior), pushing out Webber off track in China during SC (unpunished), racing across safety line in pits in China (warning), the same recidive in Canada (not punished at all even no warning as if it is safe driving), and now farce punishmnet in Valencia. Remind me if I forgot something.

            I wonder how teams pumping so big millions in this sport allow that Whiting to continue manipulating the races.

          2. d-d this your first year of F1 then? Well if Charlies manipulating for Hamilton can’t think what he was doing in 07/8 and 9.

            OH YEAH EXACTLY THE SAME JOB, an yet Hamilton was punished all over the place, these it’s all for Hamilton nuts are getting beyond a joke now.

    2. LOL at how angry ferrari will be! What a gutter of a race they had.

      1. When Hamilton pushed Webber off in China, it was because Vettel had pushed Hamilton over!

    3. It depends on the severity of the rule breach. Perhaps it was like doing 31mph in a 30 zone. A minor offence that wouldn’t normally be contested.

      Without seeing the lap times myself, I will leave this to the stewards.

    4. miguelF1O (@)
      28th June 2010, 2:03

      THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS the only 2 things that could make sense would be penalising or dsq all 10 drivers 9 about the in lap time and ham for disrespecting the safety car and getting away with a minor penalty. i think from now on every driver should ignore safety car because the penalty for doing that is minimal

      1. Yes they should definitely disqualify all 9 drivers. because that won’t prompt people to say it’s unfair will it?

        I seriously hope you are a troll.

  2. I thought the only options to the stewards were grid penalties, or 20 (drive-through) or 30 (stop-go) seconds added to the race time…

    1. gree, Ed,

      20 seconds, 30 seconds or grid penalties in the next race are the only penalty options available to the stewards. 5 second penalties? It looks like the stewards are not following the rules!

      This comes from:
      http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8683/fia.html

      16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:
      a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;
      b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.
      c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
      However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the last five laps, or after the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to the elapsed race time of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).
      16.4 Should the stewards decide to impose either of the penalties under Article 16.3a) or b), the following procedure will be followed :
      a) The stewards will give written notification of the penalty which has been imposed to the competitor concerned and will ensure that this information is also displayed on the timing monitors.
      b) From the time the stewards’ decision is notified on the timing monitors the relevant driver may cross the Line on the track no more than twice before entering the pit lane and, in the case of a penalty under Article 16.3b), proceeding to his garage where he shall remain for the period of the time penalty.
      However, unless the driver was already in the pit entry for the purpose of serving his penalty, he may not carry out the penalty after the safety car has been deployed. The number of times the driver crosses the Line behind the safety car will be added to the maximum number of times he may cross the Line on the track.
      Whilst a car is stationary in the pit lane as a result of incurring a time penalty it may not be worked on. However, if the engine stops it may be started after the time penalty period has elapsed.
      c) When the time penalty period has elapsed the driver may rejoin the race.
      d) Any breach or failure to comply with Articles 16.4b) or c) may result in the car being excluded.

      1. bernification
        27th June 2010, 23:54

        Chevy, correct.
        Feel for Kobaiashi, great drive deserving of a podium.
        Never, ever heard of 5 sec penalties.

        Rubbish

        1. how much of a time penalty to impose is at the stewards discretion.

          20 seconds etc is the general rule, but ultimately it’s up to them how many seconds.

          5 does suck though, kamui should deserved a couple extra points for his massive – faultless drive… and 2 overtakes.

        2. Had it even been a 30 second penalty for the nine drivers, Button would still be ahead of Kobayashi so unfortubately no podium for him, whatever penalties were given.

  3. Five second penalties? What the hell?

    The proper thing to do would have been to give them ALL drive through penalties during the race. A five second penalty applied afterwards is NOT the same.

    If an incident happens during the race where someone deserves to be penalised (except if it is at the very, very end) then a penalty should be given during the race.

  4. 5 second penalties? How stupid.

  5. I have a feeling they were deciding what penalties they will give not to upset the finishing order too much. I’m still not too sure what have they done wrong to be honest.

    1. I agree, no penalty and it doesn’t set a good example. I think people are just complaining because they enjoy it. Yeah I’d like koby to get 3rd as well, but that wouldn’t make 100 second penalties fair would it?

      I see this as more of a warning shot, with the stewards saying, right chaps, this time you get away with it, but next time *shakes fist*.

  6. I am gonna use CAPSLOCK now.

    WHERE WAS THIS PENALTY WHEN SCHUMACHER OVERTOOK ALONSO!!!

    1. Maybe they introduced it after Schumacher incident, as it clearly showed us that 20 second penalty can sometimes be too much.

      1. The stewards probably erred on the side of caution after seeing the rage which arose from that Monaco incident.

        Remember during the Max era when we wouldn’t know the race winner until some days after the chequered flag (Spa 2008, Interlagos 2003)?

        Also maybe if they set a time faster than the delta to SC time required, the difference could have been docked instead.

      2. “Maybe they introduced it after Schumacher incident, as it clearly showed us that 20 second penalty can sometimes be too much.”

        They should have realised that after Spa 2008!

        1. How True! But still i am glad they did. I am not too sure, there was any major infringement of a rule going on here and giving half of the cars making the finish a severe penalty would have made the race a farce.

          It might just be they did clear this internally after the Schumi incident in Monaco, that would be another good thing about that incident. At the time a lot of guys showed the FIA rulebook offering other penalties than just those in the sporting regulations.

          1. bernification
            27th June 2010, 23:56

            If they cleared this after, they should have informed the teams and the viewing public.
            It’s only right.

          2. bernification is right.

            You can’t make up new rules/penalties in the stewards room.

            Breaching the rules, if it is by accident, is a driving mistake. It is a mistake that costs you 20 or 30 seconds. This is what everyone knows and expects.

            If the drivers breached the regulations then they must be punished in accordance with the regulations. Whatever is written down is what is fair, because you’ve been forewarned.

  7. I’m still waiting for the -4 goal penalty Germany are due for allowing the ball to cross the while line at the entracne to the goal-lane, un-seen to the referee. But of course that won’t happen, because you can’t change the outcome of something once it’s finished. That would just show you that the rules you have applied to that something have more grey areas than a ‘Just For Men’ advert, making your sport and the rules for your sport look rather stupid.

  8. And yet a 2-second penalty for Schumacher at Monaco wasn’t an option? These penalties are even more meaningless than the critics of reprimands say those are!

    Driving too fast under a Safety Car is a safety issue, and they should have been punished as they would have been in the race, as Hamilton was in the race.

    1. Hey, may I remind you accident with Hamilton in Canada? – he was intentionally left in pitlane whuile Alonso was on the passing lane, and yet he fetl comfortable to continue racing all the pits despite being on wrong part of the lane and crossing safety line.
      Something he already received a warnign in China.

      However race director Chsarlie Whiting didn’t even send this case to consideration by judges. What a creative director, indeed.

      1. What exactly did Hamilton do wrong in either of those situations? In both cases you could argue there was an unsafe release (although I believe that doesn’t hold up when the pits are connected like in Canada), which is a decision Hamilton has absolutely no part in.

        I think Hamilton in both cases and Alonso in Canada didn’t drive dangerously. Vettel pulled a pretty nasty move on Hamilton in the pits in China though, which I quite liked at the time. :P

    2. I think the FIA might have instructed the Stewards, that in cases like this it IS allowed not to punish according to sporting regulations but using the more flexibly worded general rules (those were discussed after the Monaco incident in detail)

      But it certainly would have been appropriate do use a 1 or 2 second penalty for Schumi in Monaco.

  9. Rats! Such insipid little ‘penalties’ to keep the order more or less intact, I guess. I was looking forward to seeing Kobayashi in third.

    1. even with a 20sec penalty, button would have stayed 3rd

  10. What the hell? I think stewards have today some kind of all fools day. It’s the second time when they give a joke of a penalty, just as it was with Hamilton. Gentlemen, make up your mind! Either you give a penalty or you don’t!

  11. So, Fernando, next time remember to pass the sc too!

    1. That’s the lesson here.

      1. What does any of the content in this article have to do with passing a safety car? This is exclusively about speeding behind the safety car.

        1. Well, if Alonso had passed the safety car he would have been able to get out ahead of more of the cars that sped behind the safety car. Maybe that’s what Juan H meant?

  12. Wow, quick on the news there. It’s not on the BBC yet, it’s not even on the official F1 site yet. Hurray for F1 Fanatic.

  13. Surprisingly good judgment in this case. They didn’t gain much by speeding behind the safety car, so they surely didn’t deserve 20 sec penalties, yet simple reprimand wouldn’t be enough in my opinion. Very good decision.

    1. BEN CURLY = STUPID

      1. Now stop for a second and think. Does that comment say more about me, or about you?

        1. I totally agree with Ben Curly’s comment

      2. “Now stop for a second and think. Does that comment say more about me, or about you?”

        You see, theo, how easily your immature comment was to counter?

        I agree with Ben Curly, because they didn’t gain a ridiculous amount of time or positions by being a bit too fast under the safety car. Though such common sense would have been nice to have for Spa 2008, Australia 2009, Monaco 2010, etc.

        1. I would like to see a little consistency in the punishments the stewards give out. Giving MSC 20 seconds DURING a safety car period killed his race. 5 seconds for breaking a rule is stupid.

      3. obvious troll is obvious

      4. For me it makes perfect sense what Ben Curly writes there, who’s stupid here?

        Only a shame they did not use this kind of penalty in earlier cases (spa 2008, Monaco 2010 and probably lot’s of other cases)

    2. Do you think MSC should have a 20sec penalty in Monaco for passing Alonso ? The rules state 20 or 30 sec penalty, not 5.

      1. I know, and I think that 20 seconds for MSC was completely unfair. I think today’s decision is much more sensible, even if it is against the rules. I think it sets a good precedence for the future.

        1. You (the FIA) can’t just make up new rules to suit every situation. If that was the case, there would be no rules.

          The penalties are written in rules. They should follow them. MSC punishment was hard to swallow but was accepted because the punishment was by the rule book.

          1. I think there were quite a lot of comments on the Monaco incident stating the more broadly defined options to the Stewards in the more general FIA rulebook allowing for “any time penalty staded in seconds”.

            Maybe that incident actually made the FIA realize and communicate to the Stewards, that it is possible to use other than those 3 options in the sporting regulations.

    3. Well the issue is not gaining time but one of safety – at least, that’s why the rule’s there, personally I don’t see why the whole lap has to be over a certain time, just the sector the incident occurred in.

  14. The Valencia grandprix was a FARCE. And I am not a ferrarist. Those who stole gained positions and points, those who played by the rules got almost nothing. Hamilton penalized as soon as his 2nd place was safe, the others penalized by 5 seconds when their breaking the rules gave them gains of 20+ seconds? I feel more cheated than at Singapore 08.

    1. Hamilton was penalised before his 2nd place was safe. It was up to him to wait 2 laps to try and increase the gap.

      And your last sentence really destroys your own argument.

  15. i think it is BS that the stewards are allowed to change the final results once the race is over if they have to IT MUST BE DONE DURING THE RACE!

    1. Exactly. There is absolutely no reason this couldn’t have been done during the race. F1 is the only sporting event in the world where you have to check six hours later to see if the finishing results you witnessed live were changed afterwards.

      1. I know. I for one dont want to sit around waiting to see if my favorite drivers are getting screwed out of positions. Also in other sports penalties are given before play resumes otherwise the penalties are negated

      2. So, what about scrutineering then? Lots of technical sports have results changed when someone fails scrutineering after the event.

  16. Yes, I agree, this is a complete joke. Even Brundle said during the race that it would be 20-30 sec if penalties were handed out. I mean, something definately must of happened if Alonso and Massa were negated way back in the field. Schumacher must also be fuming after what happened to him in Monaco getting a 20 sec penalty.

  17. this is a joke, i thought the only penalty they had available to them post race was the equivalent of a drive through? so 20 seconds?

    1. They can only have changed the rules silly, this probably came from the Schuey Monaco incident, surley this is a good thing for F1.

  18. And they said after Monaco that it was either 20 sec or grid penalty for Schumi? Anyone still believes that Hill was totally impartial? What a joke!

  19. what a shameful decision from FIA. They are an embarrasment for the sport, fixing races like this from the official body puts singapore 08 into new perspective. Time for Mr. Withing to go IMHO.

  20. big joke, F1 is a big joke these days, no clarification, no clear rules and old men with white hair in race control making bad, SLOW decisions.

    For such a wealthy sport its embarrassingly run!

    1. Your so wrong, F1’s stewarding has improved in leaps and bounds this season, it’s still far from perfect but think about this.

      Schumacher gets a harsh penalty in Monaco, following a WMSC meeting a new penalty seems to have appeared which allows Stewards to be less servear in cases of only mild infringement. That’s excellent progress.

  21. Ab-so-lutely… FURIOUS!

  22. How can Hulkenberg have got a penalty when he didn’t even finish?

    1. Dunno. If they gave him 5 seconds, then they are wrong, no doubt about it. They should hand him a 5 place grid penalty or something.

      1. I was wondering about that as well. Keith, do you have any info on this?

        Surely he did not even have a set time for the finish, just laps finished before having to stop?

  23. Well I hope Frentzen missed the whole England-Germany match for that stewards’ meeting.

    What a messy race, one to forget about and move on. Big thumbs-up for Kobayashi though, and thank God Webber’s OK.

    1. Somehow we have to use this phrase (“let’s just forget it and move on”) far too often lately. :)

  24. East Londoner
    27th June 2010, 18:10

    Race results changed after the race like this are an absolute farce. Why not give the drivers grid penalties instead? I just don’t understand why they don’t just get rid of all the idiots at the FIA and replace them with more competent people. It feels a bit like the 1994 season, where the FIA was banning and fining drivers/teams for minor racing incidents almost so they could get a kick out of it because it’s fun to them.

  25. 17 points in two races
    27th June 2010, 18:12

    Let´s go boys, everyone breaking rules if you get more…

    Charlie Whiting must be fired right now!!

  26. What a joke, f1 just gets worse and worse. Can we not get back to the motor racing? Too many gimmicks and controversial decisions in f1 now.

    How can they only get a 5 sec penalty?
    should have been a drive through which is a 20 sec time addition if given after a race.

    1. So you want more motor racing yet call for an increased importance of (post race) penalties.

      I’m really interested in seeing how much too fast the drivers actually went in the lap(s) in question. I wouldn’t be surprised if the speeding didn’t actually make any difference in the race, which makes 5 seconds a pragmatic penalty seeing how two drivers lost a point to the advantage of drivers who didn’t speed.

      If anything penalties like this encourage mottorracing. As soon as you make penalties – especially those awarded post race – completely disproportional to the damage the ‘risk’ will less likely be worth the reward.

      It’s simply the way the FIA operates now. You penalize accordingly, not excessively, to encourage the desired kind of behavior which so far seems to have produced closer and more exciting racing.

      Repression never works anyway.

    2. I think for Kubica and Button even 5 seconds was harsh, seeing as he was in the last corner and going into the pits – what was he supposed to do, brake harshly and go round the cornere at a dangerously slow speed?

      What should have been handed down is increasing the penalties incrementally as you go further down the order. That way those who were halfway through the sector and had ample opportunity to slow down are punished more that the ones who were quite literally at the end of the lap.

  27. I understand that the FIA is trying to bring consistency to its rulings since things were that bad but this beggars belief. You ignore a vital safety issue and get slapped with a paltry time penalty after the race has ended and most fans have left- were the so ashamed of what they were doing that they “hid” it in such a manner? Stonking good race by that “Mad man from Japan” Kamui Kobayash though.

    1. I would like to see the lap times. It might be the same as doing 31 Mph in a 30 Mph zone, it’s technicaly against the law, but the police won’t pull you over for it.

      I’d also like to see how these times compare to other races, as this might be quite common, however because a team made a complaint, the issue had to be investigated.

  28. Pedro Andrade
    27th June 2010, 18:15

    The decision to hand 5 second penalties is weird because I didn’t even know it could be done!

    To me the most shocking thing is the ammount of time the stewards always take to hand down even the most simple of penalties. I know people don’t like it when someone talks about football, but there the referee takes an almost instant decision – I know the game is a lot easier to follow, and they may make more mistakes (England sure do have something to complain about!), but the way things are done in F1 are just not good enough.

  29. Maybe they took Ferrari’s insulting winge into account and decided that they didn’t want to look weak.

    Tbh, I’ve had enough of Ferrari’s outbursts this season. They are the only team that do it. Thing is they don’t have any weight to throw around anymore.

  30. Weird race, but weirder still the sort of bias one has to endure during the BBC broadcasts. Lewis was clearly trying to time his going with the safety car to go in front of it while keeping Alonso behind – he mistimed it a bit (really by a couple of meters) and got himself in trouble. But the intent to get one over Alonso and Massa was clear. Having said that, one could say that although unethical, it is probably not illegal…Anyway, Brundel & Co went out of their way to exonerate LH from any taint — as they always do. And then comes David Coultard again…what is it between him and Webber – do they cuddle? It is clearly Webber’s duty keep it safe while trying to overtake. He bumped on the back of Kovi’s car like a crazy man. It was not, as DC cried, that Kovi scandalously blocked him. In fact, Webber has this little dance he does when trying to overtake other cars that makes it seem from the onboard camera that the other guy is going left and right, when it is really him swinging around(it was the same in Australia with Massa). He was trying to recover time after his botched pitstop, messed it up on the back of Kovi — who was in no obligation to roll over –and is now trying to blame everybody else but himself. All in the safe belief that DC will bend over backwards to try and cover it up for him.

    1. “Lewis was clearly trying to time his going with the safety car to go in front of it while keeping Alonso behind – he mistimed it a bit (really by a couple of meters) and got himself in trouble. But the intent to get one over Alonso and Massa was clear.”

      Couldn’t agree more on that. His answer when asked about the incident was priceless: “Honestly, I don’t really remember it”

      Yeah, sure…

    2. Mark Hitchcock
      27th June 2010, 18:57

      haha yeah cos as long as David Coulthard defends you you’ll never be in any trouble.

      What a ridiculous comment.

      The BBC pundits took a different view than you (and me for that matter) so that makes them biased? No it doesn’t.

  31. You guys are just mad that this promotes Ferrari in the results.

    These team cheated, and are now being penalized. If this would have happened, and McLaren was the ones getting huge out to dry there would have been an uproar for these teams to get penalties. Just be happy Hamilton keeps that 2nd spot, he got of scot free.

    1. Did you read ANY of the comments here?

      Clue: unique, brand new, not in the rule book 5 second penalties.

  32. For those complaining about the Schumacher incident, it’s a different offence, that was for overtaking under safety car conditions, this is just for speeding.

    It seems fair to me, didn’t Rosberg get off with this at Suzuka last year?

  33. Wow, what a race… penalties after the race, cheating, no punishment for those who break the rules, and if there was penalty , yeah after 20 laps??, this was a joke… and once again the cheaters gets away with it

    1. Exactly, and the 5 seconds these car were given are nothing compared to doing a drive through.

  34. Penalties??? How about penalizing the stewards?

  35. From what I understand it’s marginal whether the drivers should have got any penalties at all – if they were given the order to slow down to a delta time on the last section of a lap it’s not realistic, or indeed safe, for them to slow that much to be able to make the delta time.

    The penalty given is clearly intended to prevent the race order from changing too much, with only Buemi (-2 points) and De La Rosa (-1 point) losing out, and Alonso (+2 points) and Rosberg (+1 point) benefiting – but if I were Buemi or De La Rosa I’d actually feel a little hard done by.

    The penalty was by and large fair enough though, as technically there was an infringement, and comparing it to Schumacher’s penalty at Monaco just highlights the inconsistency of stewards – not that because one resulted in a set penalty the other should have been the same – personally I think the Schumacher penalty was a little hard.

  36. Can someone actually explain what these guys did wrong?

    From what I saw it was going to fast on the SC in lap, which is my eyes won’t give you any gains in the race at all, due to being stuck behind people anyway and would probably be better penalised with fines

    1. Going fast on the SC lap gives you advantage if you pit on that lap (obviously). I don’t know if these guys did pit, but this rule exists because drivers used to rush to pits when SC came out.

      1. what I saw on the screen was that it was the SC IN lap, which to me means the lap the SC comes in. Did I read that wrong then?

  37. Why wasn’t Schumi given 5 second (or 1 place) penalty in Monaco? I thought giving less than 25 second penalty wasn’t possible?

  38. What do people think would have happened if it was just one driver who was caught speeding behind the safety car? Would they have got a 5-second penalty? Or would they have been given a drive-through?

    I think the fact that so many drivers were caught out made the stewards go easier on them collectively. Personally I’d rather that each incident was viewed independently and punished accordingly.

    1. Far too sensible ;)

      If it’s the rules than fair enough but ti does seem a bit…light hearted in my view.

      Actually because it says ” drivers must stay above the minimum time set by the FIA ECU” and if they don’t do that should they get time added? :P Just kidding of course!

  39. So many smart people in this sport and yet, all the rules and decisions seem to be made by apes.

    There isn’t any kind of coherence in decisions between races and this just infuriates everyone…

  40. only 5 sec penalty???!!??

    what has happened to F1 Rules and regulations?
    better dump all the rules and regulations all together

  41. You should investigate in an article how come so many drivers were able to pass the ferraris despite delta lap times. Bug in the rules?

  42. Maybe part of the problem is that there are too many rules. When an attempt is made to legislate each and ever thing that can possibly happen during a race this sort of inconsistancy is bond to happen. Let’s return to racing on the track not in the stewards room

  43. so they were punished for driving too slow behind a SC…. oookay, surely one of them slowing would force the people being to slow aswell? making Button more to blame than Buemi?

  44. mildertduck
    27th June 2010, 19:28

    This penalty wasn’t for going too fast behind the safety car (clearly a safety risk) – http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/on_event.aspx indicates that it was for “failing to stay above the minimum lap time” – i.e. travelling too slowly… how bizzare, do they get a penalty if they have to stop on the track to let (say) an ambulance cross it when the safety car is out?

    1. just weird wording I think:

      Lap time around 1:38

      SC -> Minimum lap time i.e. 1:50, they have to stay above 1:50

  45. I dont understand…isnt the SC suppoed to pick up the leader? They used to wave everyone thru until the leader came up, then everyone formed, same position, until the SC exited the track???? On replay, it sure looked as if the SC picked up the Ferrari’s??? If this was done correctly, why wasnt Ham and Alonso both back there same position as b4 the SC???? Whether 8 and 9th or 2nd 3rd…they shouldve been same position….Mabey someone smarter than me can clarify this….I mean, whether you like Ferrari or not, it was rather blatant…and in watching F1 for 30 years, Ive never seen a 5 second penalty…No matter who you cheer for, this race was a mess..

    1. i would like to understand this as well.

    2. Agree, they should of been waved through… otherwise if Hamilton had stayed behind as well Vettel would of been a lap ahead of everyone…

    3. Me too, I would like to understand what the rules really are. Something is very messy indeed.

  46. Alonso Follower
    27th June 2010, 19:47

    Have not commented here in a while, but this is really too much. Hey, has anybody analyzed the end results?

    Look who gained the most benefit from not following the rules. Look who lost more.

    This is a pattern that is repeating all the time, and I’m becoming very, very tired of seeing always the same. Look, there’s no question that Hamilton is a top driver, among the best of the grid. He has proved many times, including winning a championship, that he has the ability and mastery necessary to compete.

    But all the time we see the same: Hamilton does something fishy and he always passes unscathed, or with a symbolic penalty (¿reprimand? what a joke). But today we’ve seen something even worse, a penalty that did not meant absolutely any difference in the final result and took 20 laps to be applied.

    This is too much, FIA and al can end the championship tomorrow and give Lewis the trophy. Nobody doubts at this time that they will do whatever is needed to ensure that the championship ends with Lewis at the top.

    And Alonso is completely right in saying that this only empowers the drivers to skip the rules, after all, they get better results than the ones that follow them.

    What I cannot understand is how the britons, usually know for their respect of the sport and its rules, are still supporting Hamilton. I’ve seen in other sports incredible examples of Britih fair play, yet Formula 1 for some reason is different.

    Watching F1 is becoming more and more a waste of time. Not because my preferred driver does not win, which is already a factor, but because the “sport” part of it is becoming irrelevant.

    1. “All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others”. I’m unsure if HAM is to blame too much in this case. Then again, people seem quite lenient in judging him. He’s piling up ‘small’ mistakes and misjudgements (Vettel has a tendency to do the same though) and gets no more than symbolic penalties.

      Stewarding was given a lot of praise at the start of the season, but I’m starting to have doubts as the races go by.

    2. Perhaps Mclaren pay for acting lessons for their proteges also?…Lewis seems to be getting away with an awful lot of “mis demeanours” while Michael Schumacher has to be heavily penalised everytime.
      By the way I am a British citizen of the old school,that is we expect BRITISH FAIR PLAY ON AN EVEN PLAYING FIELD.

  47. For so many cars to not make the correct time (too slow?) someone seriously messed up in race control.
    These are the best drivers in the world and 9 of them couldn’t match the correct lap time… was the time / range realistically possible?

    1. At gpupdate it is reported that Jensen got the instruction just before the pit lane entrance and could have done the max time allowed.
      http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/237842/i-couldn-t-slow-enough-under-safety-car-button/

      1. That should read “…could NOT have done …”

        Keith any news on that edit button?

  48. The stewards’ explanation explains absolutely nothing. I want to know where in the Sporting Regulations allows the stewards to issue a 5-second penalty for anything whatsoever…

    1. Yes, on the live blog I said I believed the minimum was 20 seconds so were do 5 seconds come from…. ‘saving face’

    2. Isn’t there a rule in the ISC which allows it? The Sporting Regulations defines a set of penalties for certain ‘Incidents’, but this kind of thing is not included as one of those.

  49. I was quite surprised to see only 5-second penalty and that really sends out the question why hasn’t that small penalties given earlier? That referring to cases when reversing order if possible, such as Schumacher/Alonso at Monaco.

    But, in this case I think it’s something like this for these drivers. Driver going at 250 km/h when they get a message of SC. Of course drivers at that point have no idea why. Driver takes the “SC mode” and minimum time is something like five seconds for 200 metres. Even with reaction time you would probably use most of that distance, and basically avoiding penalty would need lockup braking.

  50. charlie gass
    27th June 2010, 20:26

    5 seconds? ahahahah a joke? ferrari listen me pls…you should cheat

    1. none of these drivers gained even 5 secs by driving SLOWER than required under SC. This seems more of a fine-able offence (due to safety) than a time penalty

      1. They weren’t going slower than that required under the Safety Car – they were going quicker than permitted. If they’d been going slower, then they would have broken the “maximum-time” rule, not the “minimum-time” rule.

        Quite a few people have got confused by this and I blame FIA jargon. How do they expect their regulations to be followed if they write them in such obscure terms?

        1. yeah, I realised this… no delete button though ;)

  51. I have to agree, maybe reluctantly, with the Ferrari press release and Alonso’s remarks; this is scandalous.

    A) There is nothing in the Formula One Sporting Regulations that give the stewards any discretion over time penalties – it’s either 20 or 30 seconds depending on whether it replaces a “drive through” or a “ten second penalty”. They were right (or at least respected the rulebook) in waiting for after the race because multiple cars were involved. All this is in Rule 16.
    B) They do have discretion for grid penalties the following race, but decided not to use this.
    C) Rules 40.8 and 40.9 (get the race leader first behind the safety car by waving past) are perhaps not totally clear nor fair but it is obvious that in this race it had enormous effects on the results (although Schumacher’s whinging is not justified under 40.10 “safety car and line of cars” reads “and” not “or”, so the light should not have gone green between the SC and the line.)

    Conclusion: By giving a McLaren the minimum penalty and delaying it until he could safely get back out without losing P2, then by giving less than the minimum to others, the discrimination against (at least) Ferrari is pretty obvious. The stewards are, once again, putting the sport in disrepute.

    1. A
      Thanks for reciting the rule, which is informative

      B
      You can ask him yourself but I reckon Alonso and his team would not have been satisfied with a grid penalty for Hamilton either.

      C
      It is not clear that the target-breaking of these cars had an “enourmous” effect on where Ferrari placed. As others have pointed out, as the SC came in on their in laps, it was no case of mendacity or any great advantage.

      Conclusion:
      Your answer presumes that the Stewards were responbile for, or oblighed to take into account, the fact that Kobayashi was holding up Button and that behind them, all of those cars were slow as molassas. What if Kobayashi somehow took out Button and Kubica, of they all had engine failures, should Hamilton’s penalty have been worse yet?

      It seems some want to have it both ways. You want the stewards to amp up the penalty when the black-letter law does not suit your guy, but at the same time, in the same race, throw the book at another guy even though the punishment would be worse than the crime.

      1. If Ferrari hadn’t told the stewards to look at Hamilton’s delta-time first (which is the impression I got from Alonso’s radio) then maybe the stewards might have had a chance of doing something about the overtaking infraction earlier. They can only investigate one thing at a time, and once they’d spotted how many people had really gone too quickly before encountering the Safety Car…

    2. Here,here!!.I am rapidly going off Mclaren,there is something seriously wrong in presenting this changed image ~~ of a once squeaky clean team ~~ to the World audience…for want of a better word “SLEAZY Mclaren” springs to mind.

  52. It was the minimum they could do to get Alonso into the points! LOL

    1. Alonso already was in the points (in 9th). The minimum would have been to do nothing at all (which technically the stewards were more entitled to do than the action they actually took).

  53. Lehonardeuler
    27th June 2010, 22:45

    Maybe a 5 sec penalty could sound reasonable, but it’s not on the rules.
    A penalty is not supposed to make things even: that would assume the stewards have the knowledge and power to say what’s “fair” and “compensate” for the consequences of drivers actions – There’s no way that could be fair.

    So that’s the part of the 20 or 30 sec penalty: You know what’s coming if you try to get away with it, and makes you think twice. The most important thing of laws is to prevent, not to solve.
    Penalties are somewhat “standard” to avoid these situations. The stewards thought that 5 sec was fair, when that fair action is not even on the rules… So it’s not fair at all.
    These penalties make teams and drivers take penalties as a part of the strategy, because, at most, the stewards would take away what they gained. So a penalty is a win-or-tie solution, isn’t it? Fairness taken away, what would you choose if you had to win?

    Also, in the last month it was decided that if drivers could have in-sport issues for speeding in the streets. But speeding with a SC on track is less relevant than that?

    I doubt I’ll see F1 for the next couple of months.

  54. Happy days for Alonso then. Nailed Hamilton bang to rights (though he did maintain 2nd place) and the trounced Buemi. Ah, but he did get overtaken by a rookie in a Sauber on the second to last.

    Ooops

    Not sure the Spanish back pages will waste much column on him tomorrow then.

  55. ok listen you guys here is the facts.

    first off it was a catch 22,

    why because if you happened to be between the safety car and the pit entrance when safety car was deployed, from that point on anyone who dived into the pits would jump the those cars in front. due to them been held up by the safety car.

    you didn’t need to speed all you needed was to be told to get into the pits not a drivers fault, it just happened to catch Ferrari out.

    the rules need to be changed so you at least do one lap behind the safety car before pitting, then it would be fair on everyone.

  56. Did anyone notice also the way M Shue was held at pit exit with a red light? It was red, turned green then back to red and held him there for quite awhile….

    Im also amazed that Hamilton has a button to press to make him go faster 8)

    I thought Todt would bring stablization to the fia…

    Today the stewards made it look like a joke…

  57. A 5 second panalty??? Of course! Kobayashi had a good race, but ruined the race of the people behind!

  58. Boo Hoo Iam Alonso at Home, Please help Me as Iam so busy Crying, Absolute Joke, Iam still not sure whether Its F1 being the Joke or the Joke becoming F1 . And Five seconds, I ask ya!

  59. Long.Beach.wants.F1
    28th June 2010, 2:31

    5 seconds?! either they want to send a message and hand out a grid penalty or at least a huge fine. 20 seconds wouldn’t have mad that much of a difference

    i bet Alonso is fuming with this ruling!

  60. The rule is that, when the S C is deployed, all cars should stick to the “delta” time automatically sent to their cars FOR A FULL LAP BEHIND THE S C. As webber’s accident happened when he was well behind in 17th place, the cars in front of him had almost completed their lap at full racing speed before the “delta” time was transmitted and therefore had no chance to reduce speed to comply with the required time (other than stopping for a fag break beside the track). This, I think, is why the stewards were a bit lenient – perhaps adding 5 secs. brings them up, in time, to the “delta” time.

  61. At least we have technology to use after the race unlike in football where a goal doesn’t count simply because some muppet didn’t see it. ;)

    It’s almost like – if I didn’t see it, it didn’t happen.

  62. First Timo Glock should have had a black flag. 20 second penalty after all the damage he has done is not even close.

    For the safety car rule, if you ar more then ten car lengths behind and you drive too fast to catch up, you get a penalty for driving too fast AND you get a penalty for more then 10 car lengths?

  63. SC rule number 1: Never, ever go pit under SC.
    Specially when we have the current tire rules.

  64. Not sure where they were speeding, dont know how much they gained but assume someoine does and that was how the penalty was awarded.
    Hamiltons mistsake looked like a mistake to me, but having said that if he has strayed behind then Alonso would still have been 10th, ……so Fernandos big issue is not that he was 10th, it was that Hamilton was 2nd……………………………………..the real issue to get annoyed with is that “luck” denied some of the front runners, namely the Ferraris. ………..time to look across the pond and see how the yanks do safety cars!! Just close the pit as soon as the SC flag comes out, we cannot have people running out of fuel anymore as everybody has enough.

  65. 16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident
    a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race
    b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for
    and then re-join the race.
    c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.
    However, should either of the penalties under a) and b) above be imposed during the
    the end of a race, Article 16.4b) below will not apply and 20 seconds will be added to
    of the driver concerned in the case of a) above and 30 seconds in the case of b).

    The stewards seemed to make up an option C…

    For me, this is fixing a race by only giving a 5 second penalty to avoid chancing the race results for the top top runners.

  66. The FIA still is not good with the pit lane rules, it is just a bad joke.

  67. ive thought long and hard about what i personaly think should have been the right call for Lewis and i think this would have been appropriate,

    Hamilton should of been made to fall back infront or behind Alonso, and serve his drive though penalty from there, now that would have been fair in my book and im a McLaren Fan.
    i hate what the SC did to this race, it robbed us of just maybe some excellent racing, we will never know.
    i do feel very sorry for you Alonso even if i was clapping my hands in joy.

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