Did Hamilton try to stop Alonso getting in front of the safety car? (Video)

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Fernando Alonso’s race was ruined when he got stuck behind the safety car during yesterday’s European Grand Prix.

Meanwhile Lewis Hamilton finished second despite getting a penalty for overtaking the safety car.

Video footage suggests Hamilton may have done his bit to make sure Alonso got stuck behind the safety car.

In the video above it’s clear that Hamilton is behind the safety car when he crosses the second safety car line, then overtakes the safety car. That explains why he got a penalty under article 40.7 of the sporting regulations which says:

With the following exceptions, no car may overtake until it has passed the first safety car line for the first time when the safety car is returning to the pits. […] Any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second safety car line.

However it looks as though Hamilton could have reached the second safety car line before the safety car, but slowed down before he got there. Why was that?

In the press conference after the race Hamilton was asked twice about the incident:

Q: Lewis, you had your drive through penalty. Talk us through what happened when you saw the safety car coming out and you were side-by-side on the track.
LH: I don?t remember too much about it to be honest. I was coming round turn one and literally as I got to the safety car line I saw that the safety car was pretty much alongside me. I thought I had passed it, so I continued and that was it.

Q: Can you comment a little bit on this penalty with the safety car? Did you see the car coming out of the pits? Did you hesitate to overtake it?
LH: No, when I came down the straight, I was accelerating, I didn?t see the safety car coming out and then as I came round turn one, we know that obviously the safety car was out but I was able to push until the safety car two line, I think, and at that point I saw the safety car alongside me and I thought I was passed, so when I noticed it, he was already behind and so I continued.

Looking at the video replay it doesn’t seem to me that he was ‘pushing until the safety car two line’.

Two interpretations seem likely. Perhaps Hamilton hesitated because he wasn’t sure whether he was allowed to pass the safety car as it was in the pit lane. But given his words in the press conference, it seems he was aware of the rule concerning the safety car line.

Alternatively, perhaps he was fully aware of his obligations under the rules and chose to slow down to hold up the Ferraris, hoping he could get ahead of the safety car but they could not. If that was his plan, it backfired, because he failed to get over the safety car line before the safety car did.

As it happened, the ensuing penalty was not as damaging for Hamilton’s race as it could have been – but he would have had no way of knowing at the time that would be the case.

Beyond the few facts we know we can only guess at what actually happened here. But I suspect Fernando Alonso believes Hamilton was trying to hold him up, and that would go a long way to explaining the fury in Ferrari’s reaction to yesterday’s race.

Do you think Hamilton was trying to get the Ferraris stuck behind the safety car? Cast your vote and leave a comment below.

Did Hamilton try to stop Alonso getting in front of the safety car?

  • Yes (56%)
  • No (34%)
  • Not sure (10%)

Total Voters: 3,784

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321 comments on “Did Hamilton try to stop Alonso getting in front of the safety car? (Video)”

  1. No, otherwise he would make sure he would make himself the line which he didn’t. Lewis looked confused as if he didn’t knew what to do, probaly his engineer told him to race again.

    1. Yeah it seems a little hard to belive he thought all that up in so little time an still mess up, an how was a he supposed to know Kobayashi would save his race.

      Still he’s selectivley forgotten things before.

    2. miguelF1O (@)
      28th June 2010, 23:24

      mclaren is not that smart but they have been implied in some safety car gambles so im not sure i reaad an article in a portuguese newspaper about mclarens safety car “luck” it sounded suspicious but it may also be an small conspirancy the article onl refer cases from 08 til last weekend there is a case pretty similar to the renault scandal

  2. I’m always disinclined to give drivers the benefit of the doubt. They can be incredibly devious. Alonso would probably have done the same in Hamilton’s position.

    1. And maybe gotten it right ;-)

    2. The question is not the fact of whether he overtook the safety car…. indisputably he did.

      The question is WHY…

      It is clear that he slowed and then sped up and then slowed again before speeding up to finally overtaking the safety car.

      Why would he do that ?

      Only three answers…

      1. Accidentally…. not likely

      2. Deliberately but through confusion about the rules… by his own words he wasn’t confused.

      3. Deliberately for some other reason…. eg trying to disadvantage the drivers behind him…

      I’m sorry but the conclusion is clear… he did it deliberately to manipulate the situation to his advantage and got it wrong.

      He has shown in the past that he isn’t averse to acting in a devious way. Its exactly why the British will never take him to heart in the way they did Mansell or Hill or many of their other favourites.

      1. I think no.3 is the case. Alonso probably would have done the same. And I don’t think that it’s against the rules. the seriously bad move was to send a SC out to split first 3-5 drivers. than again the long wait for the decision. In this case Hamilton was very lucky and Alonso unlucky. though I don’t know why Massa wasn’t called in earlier. They knew sc is coming a they knew that it’s going to be very tight. Tactically very bad decision.

        1. I’ve said this many times already.

          To have sent the safety car out in front of Vettel would have either meant:

          A. The safety car would have waited in the pitlane for nearly a full lap.

          B. The saftey car would have been called out before Webber’s accident.

          Clearly we cannot expect B, and A would not be considered on safety grounds.

          1. so they should have waited until first 4-5 pass. it would be couple of seconds. they just ruined the race. I know, they probably can’t :)

        2. “Ah, there’s the safety car. Better not pass it, look what happened to Schumi, if they slap his wrist, imagine what they’d do to me. I’ll slow down, at least Fred can’t pass me under yellow. Wait, where’s Seb? Blimey he’s buggered off. I’m off after him, the sneaky chap, I can just squeak past the safety car I think…”

          1. BelkinEdimax
            29th June 2010, 15:26

            I agree with you scal, that is probably exactly what went through hamiltons head. Also Hamilton would have only just got through at full pelt, so surely the ferrai’s would have got stuck behind the safety car whatever happened.

        3. in order to answer your question about Massa why not entering boxes, he told that the pitlane was closed and that he got surprised when he saw nobody behind him, suddenly the pitlane was open for everybody… Charlie knew very well what to do…

        4. Speak for yourself Mark, I’m British, and I love the boy, I actually believe that was a genius move from Lewis, I love it. Unfortunately the timing wasn’t perfect otherwise he would have had the chance to wreck the Ferrari’s race, and still manage to give Vettel a run for his money, for me that’s like killing two birds with one stone, what a shame, next time Lewis please get it right.

      2. I’ve heard stories of Mansell pulling some sneaky stuff as well on teammates.

      3. I feel that the British get little enough sporting sucess that we do acept the few winners we get, maybe he’s not as popular as Button but his fan following suggests otherwise.

        1. Im sorry to dissapoint you, i’m British and can confirm that Button is not half as popular in britain as LH is. We Brit know how to shoot ourselves on the foot by destroying our own. We seems to be expert in that.

          1. Well I’m yet another Brit an can confirm it’s all speculation really an none of us have a clue about eithers real fan following.

            Regardless I’ve met just as many Hamilton fans as Button fans, an all the Button fans I meet are happier if Hamilton wins than Alonso, except the Ferrari fans, who are well ticked off.

          2. Well, I’m yet another, another Brit, and I can definitely confirm, I’m enjoying all the ferver around the show.

            I’m a Button/McLaren fan mainly, but with a solid hinkering for Lotus. I really enjoy all the drivers at different times depending on the kind of drives they put in.

            I love these forums where everyone gets involved, blames people, suggest conspiracies and scandals, and yet it’s all very subjective.

            Still, it’s the best season in years, and I’m all for it!! :)

      4. not bein funny but lookhow far back el grumpo is when ham starts to slow. even if he didnt slow down alonso still wouldnt have crossed the line in time. P.s. didnt hear Ferrari maon about useing filming day to test car flat out, what goes around so they say.

        1. well he maybe could have gotten passed but it would have been extremely tight! Too tight probably. And the filming day is allowed under the test ban. Lotus did the same thing.

      5. I think there is a 4th option – he wasnt sure if he was ahead or behind the safety car the moment he saw it as he was coming out of turn 1. He paused, said “looks like I’m past it” and just went. Turns out he was wrong…

      6. Has nobody else noticed that Bert Mylander nearly crosses in front of Hamilton as he exits the pit in the safety car. I don’t know what the rules say about how the safety car can exit but it would have been a drive through for Bert for crossing the pit lane segregation line:) Luckily Bert sees the error and changes his mind and exits corretly.

        Its no wonder Lewis slowed a second time. A crash into a parked car in Canada is one thing but biffing the safety car would be ground breaking even for Hammey!!

      7. What Ham was thinking, or what happen during the race should not be confused with he said after the race. There is plenty of time for the propaganda machine to kick into action…….

  3. I think Hamilton was hesitating whether to overtake the safetycar or not. He had to make a decision in a split second, and eventually he gave it a go. In my opinion he wasn’t trying to hold up the Ferraris, but he was not pushing. At that point, he couldn’t know that a possible penalty won’t hurt him that much.

    1. Yeah, I don’t think Hamilton (or anyone else for that matter) would be smart enough to think of such a devious plan in such a short space of time.

      1. Exactly, especially as he was risking being penalized if something went wrong (which it did eventually).

        And a thing that was crucial for Hamilton was to estimate the Safety Car’s speed in order to figure out whether he would make to the line before it or after it. And that’s not an easy thing when you are going 300kmh and the SC somewhere between 150 and 200kmh.

      2. Schumacher Monaco 2006. Oh yeah, That was in a Ferrari…

        1. I wouldn’t say that was as devious or would require as much thought though, and even if Hamilton did it intentionally (which I doubt) it certainly wasn’t as blatent and blatently despicable.

    2. I gave him the benefit of the doubt too until i read his comments above. If he had hesitated because he was unsure, he would have remembered it and he probably would have mentioned it instead of saying that ‘he pushed to the safety car line’. That’s just wrong – we all saw him lift off.

      1. I agree that it was a bit dirty, but was it illegal?

      2. I think he may have been unclear about the event. Whenever he’s been asked about something which has happened, he seems unsure recalling the events properly, such as the pitstop in China. Perhaps he has a poor memory, perhaps he’s lying, or perhaps he has such focus on what he’s doing that he doesn’t store a memory like that for very long or that extracting an event like that from his memory is very difficult. That’s why I’m not necessarily taking his comments as proof he’s lying. He well have been flustered by receiving the penalty and was defending that rather than realising he might be accused of blocking Alonso. I think there’s a chance he’s lying, but there’s also a very good chance that after a long race you may not remember an incident like that in full clarity.

        1. Thing is, he KNOWS it’s on TV, and it’s recorded, whats the point of lying, and saying he’s ‘pushing’, if the he knows the cameras will say otherwise.. I think he didn’t remember it properly. He’s not an idiot to make things up on TV, he’s been through that before.

          1. Exactly. In Australia 09 as well there’s the possibility that he WAS lead into it and then just blustered through, unsure of himself. That was proof that he doesn’t seem to handle things well post-race, and I just don’t think that his comments necessarily suggest that he was trying to cover up a malicious act- maybe it was just confused/blustered comments, in which case they shouldn’t be used to support the arguement that it was intentional.

    3. Yeh, He could have got a 10 secs ‘Stop & Go’ penalty which would have put him down in 5th.

      1. An you’ve got to keep on taking into account that the fact he benefitted so much was completley out of his control, how could he have factored in Kobayashi, I just don’t think he’s clairvoyant. An how ever devious he might be, he’s no Prost.

        Still I can acept that he may have on purposley screwed Alonso’s race. Though I do think the fact that he damaged his own race does point to it being hesitation and not deliberate skullduggery.

        1. @Scribe,

          Obviously just speculation, but he could have tried to screw Alonso’s race, then just misjudged the amount of time it would take to beat the Safety car to the line. The video seemed to show that he slowed then accelerated quickly to the line, but those are just my eyes, maybe the telemetry can tell us more?

          1. That could’ve happened, but as you say, it’s speculation the telemetry will tell us he hesitaited, this is not a question any of us can answer.

          2. I think he is lying. He is not vague or claiming memory losses about any other part of the race. And frankly, since he was interviewed only an hour or so after this incident why would he not be able to remember it clearly? It’s a definite sign of malingering when someone can answer clearly and concisely all other questions put to them, yet become vague or claiming memory lapse on the pertinent details.

  4. Yes. Any other answer is just wrong.

    1. Definitely no, Any other answer is just silly.

      But even if he did try to keep Alonso back, then that would be legal:)

      1. If you ignore article 151c)…

    2. In what universe could Hamilton have held Alonso up when the Spaniard maintains he is the righteous one that stuck to the rules? To say Hamilton held him up is to imply that he was trying to do the exact same thing as the Brit, that is to beat the safety car to the line.

      Matt
      Australian Autosport Community

      1. Indeed and surely if he was holding Alonso up, Alonso would have been closer to hamilton during the incident (which he was not). Alonso was nowhere near close enough to Hamilton to be held up.

      2. But overtaking the Safety Car BEFORE the Safety Car line is within the rules. This is what Alonso was intending to do until Hamilton got in the way.

        1. @Jonathan,

          If you seriously think Alonso was close enough to get to the safety car line before the safety car then you are clearly mad! Neither Lewis or Alonso could have planned that very well as the only time they could get a visual on the safety car was when they rounded the corner at the end of the straight. It is a ridiculous conspiracy theory as this incident was merely down to luck. Alonso was not showing any intent to push to get ahead of the safety car so to say he was is just fanboyism. It looked to me as if Hamilton initially thought he was too far behind to beat the safety car and then had a change of mind which was the hesitation that caused his penalty. It was lewis’ own fault but Alonso and Ferrari have both benefited from slightly iffy stewarding in the past so I think they need to grow up a little. Alonso was furious that he was rubbish in front of his home crowd and is now looking to divert the attention.

      3. michael mair
        28th June 2010, 18:12

        ofcourse he was trying to hold alonso back ,he knew he needed a new front wing, and would certainly have fallen behind alonso if they had pitted together,he and his team both knew that ! please dont be fooled by the saint lewis image he likes to sport to the media, he knew what he was doing, schumacher would have been proud of him for that move

        1. Even if he held Alonso up, SO WHAT! This is racing. Alonso, an Alonso fans, get used to it. He got punished, so an extent.

          I like this type of racing, it’s more enjoyable than watching red cars run around in circles followed by other types of cars like we used to see in the Schumacher era.

          He held up Hamilton in the pits in 2007, to stop hamilton getting final lap in on time, saying he was talking to his engineer. Alonso fans back then were supporting his side of the story, and now they’re attacking Hamilton.. blah blah blah..

          This is FUN!, For me at least. I like seeing Alonso get angry, I like seeing him overtaken, but this is because I like seeing racers go at each other! I like racing, and I like F1. I watch the tele cos it good entertainment.

          I find them ALL entertaining! Hurah!! Finally!!

  5. Keith, I can’t understand the criticism you get sometimes because of leaders on your site. Whenever something happens comments always refer to previous events and races. When something happens in a race it has to be looked at singularly and objectively not with thoughts of earlier incidents. Alonso’s race was stuffed by the safety car full stop. Hamilton if he was to be given a penalty as it could be seen that he did slow down it should have at least lost him one place and a 5 second smack on the wrists for the rest was a joke. All drivers have in front of them a time that they must do and 9 didn’t. Alonso and Ferrari have to move on and take some comfort from a car that has made good progress.

    1. Yeah, the 9 cars that sped into the pits…I really don’t think all 9 drivers all decided on the spot to ignore the rules. I think the timing of the safety car simply meant that they were most of the way through the sector at high speed before they got the time to stick to, leaving them very little time to slow down. Under such circumstances, the punishment was fair.

      Yes, they broke the rules, so they had to be punished, but they would have had a hard time *not* breaking the rules, so giving them the minimum penalty seems absolutely fair to me.

      1. I can’t really understand totally how the judgement was made regarding the ‘speeding’ cars – to take Button as an example (purely because he commented in the post-race press conference), he said the safety car light came on as he was going round the final corner.

        Surely it would be dangerous to brake or slow down half-way through a corner because it could cause an accident, and then he has a minimal distance to cover and for the delta time to be calculated. Should he have slowed down to a crawl after the corner as he headed for the pits to compensate for his high speed beforehand and caused a dangerous situation (as people wrongly accused him of doing in China)?

        To me that hints towards why the punishment was pretty lenient for those drivers: it is not as cut-and-dried as overtaking a safety car.

        1. I think, that if he knew that he could not meet this limit, then he should not have entered the boxes and should have continued and follow Ferrari’s behind SC – the same for all the cars in the last sector. This way there would be no doubts and it would be more fair for everyone. As somebody mentioned before, since we do not have refueling then we can have a pit lane closed again when deploying SC.

          1. Agree with the above. Pits should be closed since cars are fueled for the entire race. And disagree with those who couldn’t slow down for reasons of their position on the track. The yellow flags are out and they should be slowing especially if SC signs become deployed. If anyone can remember Alonso in Brazil 2003 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJaZ9I-556w running into Webber’s debris when he never let up. He was aware of yellow flags but happened to push in the wrong place and got caught out. The 9 cars were probably aware of where the accident took place because they were called in to the pits. But if they didn’t it could easily have been around one of the corners they say they couldn’t let up just like the Brazil accident. So I believe the penalty was not suffient for the infringement as they all knew they could push even under safety car deployment. So in my opinion they had prior knowledge and pushed to get to pits. The open pits gave unfair advantage.

          2. Brutus is right, why are the pits open?

            The rule was changed (last year?) to allow cars low on fuel to not risk running out of fuel due to a closed pit lane. There is no such problem with cars fueled for the entire race.

            The pit lane should be closed either until all cars are formed up in correct order behind the SC or for the entire length of the SC period.

      2. @Chris – completely agree

    2. Sorry rampante I don’t understand what you’re written.

      It would be useful to compare this with a previous instance when the safety car came out behind the leader like this but I’m struggling to think of a comparable one.

      1. Sorry Keith, I wanted to say header not leader. It was with reference to many comments made yesterday.

      2. Keth this topic is ********, you don’t need to posted because is nonsense that Hamilton deliberately slow down

        1. That’s your opinion. It seems plenty of people disagree with you.

          1. True lots of people disagree, but this article is just troll baiting. Last one was shumacher when you posted little detail about the facts and had people complainign about Damon Hill.

            If he slowed down on purpose, he would of got more then a penalty for just overtaking the safety car, he would of contravined the rule about going to slow and blocking other competitors. The facts show the stewarts only penalise for one.

          2. I’m not baiting anyone. Yes, it’s a controversial topic but I believe I’ve presented it as fairly as possible. And I don’t think the responses have been ‘trolling’ at all.

            I think what we have here is an interesting question about how well-versed the drivers are in the rules. If Hamilton or some other driver did do this, and spoiled the race of a competitor, it would have been rather clever – though certainly unsportsmanlike.

            You think that because the stewards didn’t punish him more severely, he didn’t do it deliberately. Fair enough, that’s your opinion.

            As for the Schumacher penalty at Monaco, I wrote at the time that the criticism of Hill was wrong and I stick by it. On other sites the Hill connection was emphasised to sensationalise the story, something I tried to avoid doing.

          3. @CapeFear – he baited you? ;-)

          4. Keith you need to step back, your article and the way it is presented, gives everyone else the opportunity to comment, the fact that you were willing to start a bunfight with this touchy subject, and with a poll, shows you knew the possible reaction, so your job is done…

  6. I think Hamilton was only guilty of dithering over whether or not to pass the safety car. He hesitated just a bit too long. I really don’t think there was anything malicious in it.

    1. I’m inclined to agree with this, although since his comments don’t match his actions I’m not certain.

    2. Then, why did he said “I don’t remember!”.
      LH said lies before, and he will do that in the future. Everyone does that, until they are caught. He didn’t get caught this time…

      Additionally, it is **impossible** NOT to remember the action he took when this action lead to a penalty!

      LH had exploited SC before (remember Japan 2007) and he tries to do it anytime he can. So there is no doubt that he did that on purpose: Slow down the Ferraris, so he had all the time of the world.

      Anyway, the point is not about what Hamilton did, but what FIA did. SC driver surely noticed that Hamilton passed. Did he communicate it to the race director? What was said over the radio between Hamilton and his race engineer?
      Regarding the severity of the penalty: It’s a regulation breach regarding safety. DT is just inappropriate. A 10” stop n go would be a more appropriate penalty.

      Speeding under SC: It’s ridiculous. I believe that FIA requested from MES ECU to calculate the appropriate lap time given each driver position in track. If so, then Buttons comments are just stupid. I regard highly JB, and I really hope that he is not lying. I would hate that.

      Alonso: He must grow up. He cannot change anything. I understand his anger, but he is a F1, professional, driver. He must stop whining and step forward.

      1. Well this Hamilton forgetting thing, while it probably is possible, drivers do trance, he does seem to forget things conveniantly.

        I’m not sure either about a 10 second stop and go, sure it might have been fairer in the context of the race but in most races that penalty would have dropped him 3 or 4 places at least. Should have been given quicker though, he shouldn’t have been able to hold position. Still really it’s just racing an Ferrari have to realise that, F1 hasn’t really been disgraced in the eyes of the world.

        1. Come on guys, why would he lie AGAIN, about something that he KNOWS has been or is going to be replayed again and again to millions of people! (I dont have an opinion on this, but it needs to be said)

          If he got black flagged, there would be armies of people saying how stupid the FIA is, how biased it is, how inconsistant it is.. all subjective opinions, based on their own perspective.

          All I know, is I’m really enjoying F1 more and more, this is getting better. I’m glad the FIA didn’t black flag Hamilton, because it they’re not being overly harsh this year.. But it wouldn’t bother me if he did.

          The fact is, F1 is more and more entertaining this year, and I for one, think this is a good thing .

  7. I saw this tweet earlier:

    Dear Ferrari – Can you explain how you and Alonso got mugged by F1 back marker Kobayashi today? Hamilton and the FIA’s fault was it?
    The problem for ferarri was they weren’t fast enough to keep the gap small enough

    1. Kobayashi was on very fresh rubber. All the guys he passed had pitted during the safety car. Very obvious really.

      1. Very obvious. But an easy way to work out the intelligence level of those criticise Alonso.

        1. Webber had fresh tyres and a vastly slower car ahead of him. The only way he could get past was up and over. Thankfully he is ok. Perhaps it might have been easier for Alonso to defend if he didn’t have another car so close ahead of him.

  8. I know F1 drivers are supposed to be quick thinking, but we need to remember it’s not just a wheel and pedals in those F1 cars.

    The drivers have a delta time to drive under the safety car, plus numerous over settings, that are probably relayed to the driver from the pits, to change to save fuel etc as soon as he passed the start \ finish line.

    It then seems that Hamilton spots the SC alongside and hesitates, trying to work out what to do.

    With no time to confirm off his team, he makes a decision to pass the SC, assuming he was ahead before the SC was officially on track.

    After all this, we are expected to believe that he thought.

    “Well if I back up Fernando and then gun it past the SC, Fernando will get stuck and 15 other drivers maybe will pit and get out before him. That’ll work out nicely and really stuff up Fernandos race.” – I just don’t think so.

    It was wrong to wait that length of time to penalise Hamilton. FIA should look into how NASCAR sort out cars behind the SC.

    I feel for Fernando, but it’s just luck and Ferrari did not have the luck today. Fernando’s radio transmissions were amusing though. Having the radio transmissions really bring the race alive at times.

    1. This almost sounds plausible… but look at Hamilton’s post-race comments. He knew that he was entitled to push until the second safety car line, and he knew exactly where the line was.

      So why did he slow down before the line?

      1. maybe he got told that AFTER the incident, we’ll never know

        1. maybe FOM can give some background to that in their race edit? like information from the team what went on there and what to say in the press conference?

          I am pretty sure Hamilton hesitated, then decided to take his chance and get in front to the SC there. But everything is possible, i am not sure.

        2. ^^^ This is what i think happened.. He did not know what to do at the time so he hesitated. Then when he was advised to push because of the possibility of a penalty was explained why he would get a penalty. Then after the race “off the record” was advised what to say to the press to avoid blow back.

          These guys are not dumb. They get themselves into situations and the team look at the situation and present the best response to minimize damage.

      2. Agree with Chalky but on Jonathans point, it’s possible the team just told him what to say.

        Hopefully some light gets shed on this in the race edit, as BasCB says, should be facinaiting.

  9. I don’t think Lewis thinks about Fernando actively. He is not obsessed like Alonso. He slowed because he was making a decision about his own race. Alonso just happened to be there.

    I bet he is laughing his nuts off today though.

    1. Correct. LH looked after his own race.

      1. Alonso is a bit obsessed isnt he? (if that’s not an oxymoron?)

        He and Lewis were asked by a Spanish Newspaper before the race if they would partner each other again. Hamilton said yes, I want to race with the best, Alonso said ‘No’.

        Seems to be that Alonso can’t forget that Hamilton put him in the shade at McLaren. He can’t get over it?

  10. It’s a strange one. Lewis is not going 100% here. Compared to any other lap during the race, the engine should be at, or close to, full revs at this point – Lewis wasnt. Looks like a moment of indecision, but considering that the safety car rules have changed this year, I would have thought the drivers would have known what rules were?

    1. the yellow flags were already out, so they should not been going at 100%

    2. Of course he wasn’t 100% there was yellow flags and SC signs.

      How fast was the SC going and there was 3m in it?

      Looking at the on-board he was along side, I be surprised if he knew exactly where the SC was, just a mistake clear and simple.

      1. Going by his post-race comments, he was actually pushing into turn 1. Hamilton has had the benefit of the doubt once too often for me now. Either he’s really unlucky on several occasions or he’s taking the ****.

        1. Well the pushing into turn 1 was not really what you can see happening in the feed. A shame FOM had that video pulled.

  11. No chance, you can’t possibly make such complex decisions in such short time, look at Webber who cant even make simple decisions!

    1. Also one important thing to see in that video is that Alonso did not think or notice that Hamilton did this deliberately, if he had he would have gone mental with his hands outside the cockpit as he usually does with the smallest of issues, only later as he realized the disadvantages of this did he start thinking ‘Hamilton****** me’, and this shows us two things – drivers(or anybody for that matter) can not make or consider such complex decisions in such short time, and also that this is a 2007 problem not 2010.

      1. Yeah, that too.

        1. I think you’re on the right track Mateuss.

          ( nice dig at Webber, I like Webber a lot, but he’s fun to make fun of :) )

  12. couldn’t bernd tell charlie that lewis had passed him, then charlie tell mclaren to tell lewis to slow down and slot back in behind the safety car?
    or at the very least, investigated it at the time and hand down the drive through penalty within a lap or two. what a kerfuffel.

    and i don’t think lewis would have done it deliberately (or at least, i hope not). a agree with DC’s assessment there that he just had that moment of indecision.

    1. he probably didn’t even realise

  13. Yes Yes Yes
    And if he was confuse about what to do passed SC car or not
    He should be punished painfully because he made bad feeling that you can brake the rules and still be better than anybody who obayes the rules.

  14. How people can say that Hamilton did this deliberately is beyond me.

    I do think that Hamilton should take it upon himself to study the rules. A while ago he said in an interview that he doesn;t feel the need to learn the rules by heart. Obviously he does since he cost himself a needless penalty here.

    He needs to know in an instant what to do and not hope that he can rely on his race engineer for these things. Especially when his race engineer(s) always seems to get these things wrong anyway.

    1. But look at his post-race comments!

      He knew he could push until the second SC line and claimed to have done so. But the video shows otherwise.

      1. Yes, but only under yellows, he couldn’t drive flat out..

      2. He was probably briefed by the team at this point.

    2. Well Patrickl, most drivers dont bother with safety car lines when moving at high speed. Only when they have a safety car do they think of such things, at the time he saw the safety car, he was probably not expecting so he tried remembering when the safety car line was, and appeared to hesitate.

      1. Indeed. He shouldn’t have hesitated though. It cost him the chance of a win.

  15. Watch the video again.

    All the time Hammy seem’s indecisive he’s on the radio to the team, getting confirmation of what he should do!

  16. No, I think he simply hesitated. That is all.

  17. If Hamilton did it on purpose it was a clever move from him, to put the SC between him and Fernando, brilliant. But he failed and surpassed the SC. Then he should had been punished harder, and definitely earlier.

    1. yeah man, the most logic answer

  18. I think he was just looking for the safety car line. He probably stalled initially because he thought the safety car was already deployed and they were already past the safety car line. But when he realised the so called line was still ahead of them, he then accelerated.

    Perhaps if he knew it was going to be an issue he would have kept the state of his mind at that time in long term storage, but I can understand why he can’t exactly remember what transpired at that point.

  19. Having looked at it again I agree. Simply hesitated.

    It would of taken amazing ability to weigh up the options, and do it on purpose.

  20. I would actually be mightily impressed if, in those few seconds between the safety car being deployed and Hamilton passing it at turn one, Hamilton calculated that he could slow down sufficiently to split his McLaren and the two Ferraris with the safety car – leaving Alonso and Massa to follow the safety car whilst he got ahead to make a pit stop without dropping down the field. Wouldn’t that be a brilliant example of calculated, cunning racing – of seeking every advantage against your rivals? The sort of manoeuvre, like Alonso’s on Massa in the pit lane entrance, that shows that ruthless desire to beat your competitors using any means?

    Unfortunately, however, I’m afraid I can’t credit Hamilton with that sort of devious genius. Surely, if he’d planned to carry out such a plan, his first priority would have been to make sure he got past the safety car before the line? Unless you’re telling me that he factored in the likely punishment of passing the safety car after the line against the potential benefits of pitting early in those few seconds too (in which case, we’re talking about whole new levels of genius)? I think it’s clear that, in light of Hamilton’s multiple safety car mishaps (Japan in 2007, Canada 2008, Australia 2009), he was simply being overly-cautious.

    On another note, isn’t it funny how when Alonso was a Renault, the whole of F1 was a conspiracy designed to benefit Ferrari yet, now he’s at the prancing horse, the whole world’s out to favour McLaren?

    1. Splendidly put bpacman! Saw your post and abandoned one in a very similar vein (not nearly as cogently written!).
      Strange isn’t it that the those who decry him at other times are now so willing to belive him capable of this level of smarts?

    2. I think you overestimate the “genius” required to pull this off.

      Hamilton knew where the Safety Car line was, he knew where the Safety Car itself was, and he knew where Alonso was.

      Being aware of these three facts, he could hardly fail to notice that he had time to pass the Safety Car before the line, and that he could prevent Alonso from doing so by slowing down a bit.

      In fact, he messed it up by slowing down too much, landing himself a penalty.

    3. Totally agree.

      I wonder how many of the ‘Yes’ voters are Ferrari/Alonso fans. Who probably littered the internet with Timo Glock conspiracy theories in 2008.

      I disagree with comparing Hamilton’s comments after he just got out of the car with the video. Do drivers really remember correctly every application of the throttle for the whole race?

      What happened with Hamilton didn’t affect Alonso’s race in the slightest. He should focus on his own performance rather than throwing his toys out of the pram. Again.

      1. And I wonder how many of the “No” voters are Hamilton/McLaren fans.

        In fact, I wonder how many people (on both sides) voted or commented without bothering to read the article or watch the video.

        1. I think the only real answer in this case is not sure, because how can we know? Both yes and no can only be pure speculation or loyalty, as you say.

          1. I completely agree. The possibility that it could have been a deliberate act, with the intention of getting Alonso off his back and buying the time to change his front wing, must be accepted. But in all honesty, who knows? We can’t know. Hence why I voted “not sure”.

  21. NO he did not. If he did he made a bad job of it as he went to late and got a penalty. Alonso is slightly obsessed with Hamilton dont you think.

    1. I agree with you 100%. I bet he is blaming Hamilton for being passed by Kobayashi as well.

    2. If Alonso is obssesed with Hamilton it’s because Hamilton, probably without realising it spoiled Alonso’s dream of driving for McLaren. Ferrari became the thing, an Alonso himself said this, only after he left McLaren.

      Alonso’s was apparently, an this is straight from JA’s mouth, I’m not being cute here, dreamed of driving for Senna’s team. Ron Dennis wasn’t the man he thought he was an this damn English rookie must be getting favourable treatment.

      I’ve only read this on JA’s blog, so I won’t swear by it but it does explain a few things.

  22. it actually looks like he backed off about the same time the safety car decided to cross the white line, maybe ham thought it was going to pull infront of him there. and when it stayed in the pit exit he put his foot down

    1. yup, I agree with my initial thought. He definitely backed off when the SC cut the white line, then put his foot down when he realised the SC wasn’t joining yet

      1. havent checked it, but good spot if it is :)

  23. My comments on this are here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/forum/topic.php?id=106

    In summary I’m willing to give hamiltion the benefit of the doubt.

    Also it’s worth remembering that all this took place within five or six seconds of Webber’s incident. There was hardly any time to plan for a deliberate move like that suggested.

    1. “I don’t remember too much about it to be honest.”
      Liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar, liar

  24. Why did the safety car split up the leaders???

    I thought its supposed to come out in front of the leader.

    Being past the pits when the safety car came out should have held up all the leaders but instead it only held up ferraris. This has to be rong. Did the fia screw this up?

    1. There was not enough time, the safety car was deployed as webber hit the barrier and came to a stop. About a second later the lap count whent to 10, indicating Vettel had crossed start / finish line.

      To do what you suggest would mean the safty car would have been deployed before the accident.

      1. Or a whole lap after the incident.

        1. This simply makes no sense. If this all happened a lap after Webber’s incident then eveyone would be in the pit already.

    2. I thought its supposed to come out in front of the leader.

      No, the rules say it will come out on track immediately, irrespective of where the leader is.

      1. So then wouldn’t Vettel and Hamilton have been a lap up on everyone else by the time they came back around and were behind the safety car? I must be missing something…

  25. Wow, video removed within 30 mins of the post going up. lol

  26. When I saw what happened first, I would have been of the opinion that Hamilton just did not know what to do when seeing the safety car coming out of the pit lane. I would have put it down to confusion, perhaps ignorance, of the rules on his part.

    However, his reaction in the press conference afterwords tells a different story. Clearly Hamilton is trying to avoid the matter by saying “I don’t remember too much about it to be honest”; an admission of culpability? I totally agree with Keith, Lewis was not “pushing” after crossing the start-finish line to the SC line.

    I think the SC rules need to be changed. With no refuelling, the pit-lane could closed when the SC is deployed as there will be no requirement for cars to pit, except for damage. Another option is to reset the field to whatever positions they held as the SC was deployed, though this wouldn’t make for great TV for race control to reset the field. But it could be done, without giving anyone an advantage/disadvantage.

    1. The trouble with quotes:
      “I don’t remember too much about it to be honest. I was coming round turn one and literally as I got to the safety car line I saw that the safety car was pretty much alongside me. I thought I had passed it, so I continued and that was it.”

      I’m sure this is how you saw his comments reported, as it is the way I’ve seen them. Journalists like to snip snip snip away until they get the most salacious version of events supported. They might as well start from scratch.

  27. If Hamilton did do it on purpose (which I highly doubt), I have to say: hats off, brillant mind you’ve got here!

  28. The drivers field of vision is very poor so I think Hamilton wasn’t completely aware of where exactly the safety car was when it pulled up beside him

  29. I couldnt watch the video. However, judging by the responses its pretty clear the majority here agree that it was a hesitation by LH on crossing the SC and not a tactic to slow down the ferrari’s.

    But the press conference gives another story. Why would LH lie that he wasn’t hesitant when infact he was? There is no harm in admitting since he was already penalised right?

    1. I think Hamilton is not someone who analyses his own performance in the way that, say, Mark Webber seems able to. He has said before that he doesn’t often watch the races afterwards and my impression is that he doesn’t really remember every fine detail of the race. He gave a similar response to this after the Chinese GP when questioned (also by Radio 5’s Crofty, I believe) about his pit lane duel with Sebastian Vettel. He seemed in that instance almost not to be sure what Croft was talking about and his answer seemed to refer to a different pit stop. I also once heard him say that he didn’t really remember some of the GPs that he’d raced in. So I don’t think he’s lying about it. It’s probably a combination of not really recalling and being a little careful what he says before he’s seen all of the facts, especially since it was his talking to a journalist after last year’s Australian GP that let the ‘lie gate’ scandal out of the bag.

  30. It’s again a case of too many rules , creating more confusion. The race order at the time a safety car is deployed , should be maintained (ie. pit lane kept closed) , and race control switch to green light only when satisfied of correct order. Already a big advantage is gained by the pack being closed up during a safety car period. It would also encourage teams to develop cars that can genuinely overtake instead of developing tricks to gain an advantage under safety car conditions , as seems is becoming more and more popular in recent times.

  31. Its great isnt it, Lewis with the “what i do wrong” expression and the seething pantomine Dick Dastardly that is Alonso (reverse if you are Spanish/italian). The only real shame is that the drive thru penalty deprived us of Lewis taking on Vettel where id back the racer over the quick but limited vettel

  32. i found it strange how this incident triggered cries of bias in the sport (ahem, Ferrari Int’l Assistance, et cetera) when it clearly demonstrates the opposite being true. this hypocrisy, like crying about crying, is pretty sad as was level of respect shown towards other fans and the person/people that make this site possible.

    guess what: once it becomes more trouble than it’s worth, it’s gone. this isn’t a soccer stadium with separate prisons for each team’s fans.

  33. No way you could make that kind of strategic call in the middle of a race, the drivers are pumped up on adrenaline and it happens in a few seconds. They simply don’t have the time to consider and perform such a purposeful manoeuvre.

    Lewis inst strong on strategy and leaves it to the team, if there was a call on the radio then fair enough.

    P.s. Hilarious how this reminds me of Alonso sitting in the put lane to stop Hamilton getting in another lap back when they were team mates!

    1. mmmmm…… that’s what I thought when Schumi “parked” his Ferrari back in ’06 , but few agreed then , least of all the Stewards.

  34. Looks like it was not done on purpose. Lewis would have seen the SC and backed off, but then either got told or remembered to race to the safety car line. From the drivers point of view there wasn’t much in it, from the top you can tell. It is odd that Lewis cannot recall the events clearly, that tells me he probably knew it was marginal but pushed ahead. I’m a fan of both McLaren and Ferrari, I feel really sorry for Ferrari, Alonso and Massa here. It would have been more ideal if the stewards had made the decision earlier – Ferrari would have given them notice immediately. So I can totally understand why Alonso called the situation a scandal.

    1. Theres that word “scandal” again….. If you really want a safety car scandal then Singapore 2008, Piquet and Alonso spring to mind

  35. I was so angry with the Hamilton incident of not having slotted behind the SC and showing that he cares a hoot for the rules – later in the race I thought, maybe even Kobayashi should not pit for a mandatory running on the other tyre compound, that would have allowed him his first podium in F1 ..

    To hell with the rules, what would have been the max penalty for Kobayashi anyway !! :)

    1. probably dsq ;)

  36. Honestly, I don’t know.

    I remember Massa saying that, heading from the last turn to the grid, they didn’t know that the SC was coming out, because there were no yellow flags yet.

    I think that’s the same scenario from Lewis, and when Lewis saw the SC on his right he thought “OMG I need to stay behind”, only to have second thoughts while being alongside the SC and thinking “well, the SC is exiting and not yet out”.

    You can read anything in it.

    Italians commentators kept saying over and over that that was an INTENTIONAL move from the Federation to favor Lewis, “beacuse in the FIA they’re all english”.

    They kept that argument even after the race, when someone pointed out that Button’s english too, and that he lost positions due to the SC.

    Anyway, I’d rather stop asking who favored who, wether it was deliberate or accidental.

    I’d rather focus on why this enormous, gigantic sport keep shooting his foot.

    We have 2 major problems on hour hands. RULES and SPECTACLE.

    F1 is unable to do anything to solve them.

    Do the race direction really need to hear Alonso yelling from his car to examine what happened? What were they doing when it happened?

    Fota blames the FIA for unclair and complex, often contracdictive rules, then proposes the Mario Kart rear wings concept.

    The most reasearch in F1 is aerodynamic. Engines are frozen, tyre developement is idling, Fuel efficiency isn’t even mentioned. They’ve allowed F-ducts and banned active suspensions. They’ve proposed adjustable wings while introducing toy-sized KERS systems.

    C’mon!

    Everybody lost their mind here.

    Everybody recognises that the F1 spectacularity issue is caused by the over-sensibility of the car to the turbulence from the car ahead.

    Yet they do everything to make those cars more and more sensible to aerodynamics.

    Not to mention the macchiavellian rules problem from which the argument started.

    I don’t get it.

    It’s like a quadruple bypass man eating fried meat at breakfast, launch and dinner everyday.

    Who control F1 (FOM, FIA, FOTA) doesn’t know where F1 is now, is going nowhere, doesn’t even have a clue of where it need to go and how to get there.

    Hence the one step forward – two step backwards behavior of this sport.

    1. The SC signs and yellow flags were pretty clear when they went onto the straight.

  37. who’s comment keith? and id add so what, since when did the majority necessarily know best? not to mention that this is a blog and about different opinions!!!

    back to the incident, it does seem Lewis manages to find himself in more situations than most, bar maybe MS that are contentious, the overtake at Spa, the Trulli overtake,er others i cant remember, now this.

    Basically if you have very clever guys with very specific rules and where the whole culture of the sport and ethos of the team is too look for gaps in the rules, then dont be suprised when an especially smart driver does something like this. i believe Alonso is fuming because someone was smart not because someone “cheated”.

    All power to a sport that keeps us guessing.

  38. I am very dissapointed with your article here Keith. In the absense of any clear evidence true reporting should be unbiased, but you have presented a biased opinion and insinuate that Hamilton deliberately held up Alonso. You put together a lot of conjecture. Really dissapointed with your article.

    1. Completely agree

    2. In the absense of any clear evidence

      But he did slow down.

      you have presented a biased opinion and insinuate that Hamilton deliberately held up Alonso.

      No, I put forward two explanations and highlighted problems with both views.

    3. I disagree.

      There is definitely something to discuss about the video and Keith made some good points. Plus this article is titled ‘Did Hamilton try to…’ which encourages a discussion, and not his finalised opinion. I dont see anything wrong with that.

  39. Absolutely ridiculous accusation .. it was simply hesitation from hamilton… Hamilton would not risk ruining his own race to affect another driver … alonso was a fair way off hamilton

  40. This is what I hate about Lewis. He clearly hesitated and lifted whether or not he braked and yet he lies and says “when I came down the straight, I was accelerating”.

    If he told the truth and said he hesitated then I’d believe his version of events, but when he clearly isnt telling the truth I’m more inclined to believe he’s lying for a reason – ie he was trying to hold up alonso.

    1. He WAS accelerating on the straight. He DIDN’T see the safety car (since it wasn’t out yet). He then WAS all of a sudden alongside the safety car. He then DID push for safety car line two and got AHEAD.

      How was he lying on any of that?

    2. Freddy mate.

      The last time he spoke to the press about a race incident someone got fired, now he’s very cautious.

      In the vid, as soon as he slow’s down his finger is on the radio button, until, he takes the corner in front of the SC.

      I would like for the FIA to release the audio of his conversation with the pitwall. conversation

  41. Come off it. As I said under a previous post, I have £100 on Alonso at 9-1 for him to win the title, so I want him to win! But there’s no way on earth Hamilton backed him up. His hesitation is a moment’s uncertainty, end of story. If he hadn’t hesitated he’d have not got a penalty, and Alonso still wouldn’t have cleared the safety car, no way.

  42. What a complete load of conspiracy-theory nonsense! It’s hillarious to think that some people actually believe this. I guess some people prefer conspiracies to common sense…

    LOL!!!

    1. Indeed. Polls like this simply show the (im)popularity of certain teams. It has nothing to do with reality or the rules.

  43. Would it be possible to have a little more explanation about the Safety Car rules and the Pit Lane Exit rules? As far as I could tell from the race footage, the Safety Car was still in the Pit Lane, and so was not officially on the track, but does the mere fact that the Safety Car boards are out mean that it is officially there, even if the drivers cannot see it?
    Why did the Safety Car have to stay behind the Pit Lane marker line? Surely it has the right to drive straight into the centre of the track? If the Safety Car was obeying the Pit Lane rules, then any car coming past on the track would have to be allowed through before the Safety Car had accelerated up to full speed, otherwise the cars coming up behind it would have to suddenly decelerate and maybe have another incident – as nearly happened in WTCC or BTCC a few months ago.

  44. When did this blog become the tabloid of f1 blogs?

    This article is pure bait and no substance Keith.

  45. Keith, video is blocked already, but I can remember the replay on TV. It seems that Hamilton hesitated, then went for it. Then circumstances played out which meant his penalty was supposedly “meaningless” (because losing any chance to win is meaningless, right?).

    Sucks for Alonso, but it’s suited Ferrari in the past for the rules to be rigid. Besides, may I remind Ferrari and its fans that this is F1, a sport where “stuff” (you know which word I really mean) happens. Was it fair for Hamilton’s wheel to fail in Spain? Was it fair that Webber was taken out by his own team-mate? Out of the three, I think we can all see which is the least likely to impact on the championship based on the current form of the cars.

    But I suspect bias rather than reasoning will have its way on this pole. Of course it will – it has Hamilton in the question.

  46. video taken down keith. copyright stuff

  47. One question regarding the poll. WHY WOULD HAMILTON GO TO THESE LENGTHS TO AFFECT ALONSO? He is not afraid of him, had already held off his passing attempts (while nursing a broken wing) and later demonstrated more than enough speed to continue to do so.
    I’ve just read an Alonso quote where he said “the race was for second” Given his demonstrated lack of any great passing ability on the rest of the field, how can Alonso seriously claim that he could have raced and passed Hamilton even if the safety car had not been deployed? Sure he was catching Hamilton for a while but, as we saw demonstrated later, LH was being conservative at the time.
    I don’t think Hamilton gives Alonso more than a passing thought, certainly he is not as obsessed as Alonso appears to be with him. Recently they were both asked if they would be willing to race as team-mates again, LH’s immediate response was that he would be happy to have a return match with FA. Alonso just said “No”.

    1. I think Hamilton like any driver looking for the championship is totally aware of and keeps close track of what all his competitors are doing.

    2. Because Hamilton was going to get passed on the pits, at this point he had to change his nose and Alonso not, so his pit-stop would have been faster (Alonso’s one)….

  48. I’ve no idea, like most other people watching F1 this weekend, whether Hamilton slowed to ensure Alonso got stuck behind the safety car or not. I tend to think he was unsure what to do because he’s now fairly paranoid about regulations – witness his decision not to take Vettel at the restart. But the idea that he couldn’t think that fast is a bit against the evidence – Formula 1 drivers *have* to think that fast.

    But one thing’s for sure: Alonso thinks he did slow him down on purpose. So would he have done this to Hamilton? We all know the answer to that one. Which leads me to think he and Ferrari are really miffed because they think Hamilton outclassed them in sneakiness, that’s what *really* annoys them.

    Whatever – it’s over apart from the shouting. But that leaves the question of the end result of Alonso’s bitter complaining. Will it inspire him and rattle Lewis? Or the opposite? And what does it tell us about Alonso’s state of mind in general? Unhappy with the performance of the upgrades? Worried they’ll be left behind as this was Ferrari’s last shot at putting the car at the front? Worried Felipe is right on his tail now? Hmm….

  49. Matt Hubbert
    28th June 2010, 13:03

    I find it quite amusing the way that Alonso behaves i can see to a point what he is saying about the length of time that it took the stewards to sort it out but thats not Hamiltons fault and he was punished. He is a class driver but needs to let his driving do the talking and not his mouth he sounds like a spoilt child. Thats the way things go sometimes for you sometimes against i dont hear Ferrari complaining when things go there way. The issue with the SC does need sorting out though to stop things like this becoming more of a problem

  50. Damn, FOM is faster than me.

    But I find an other video anyway, it is from the heli’s view. After watching the video I say Lewis hesitated, as he saw the SC, the SC was ahead of him, so he slowed down and was waiting for the SC to drive across the pit lane exit line, but the SC didn’t drive joined the track, instead the SC flowed the pit exit line, so Hamilton was able to get alone side and drive away.

    At the time Hamilton began to slow down, Alonso wasn’t even in the view of the heli’s camera, so I don’t think Hamiton intended to block Alonso. Just my opinion. Also Hamilton mostly likely did not know what the SC would do, that may be why he hesitated, otherwise why should he slowed down to let SC join the track right before his face, while he could have arrived at the 2nd line and overtake the SC intime?

  51. Prisoner Monkeys
    28th June 2010, 13:18

    I have to wonder: how would Alonso have reacted if this race was anywhere but Spain? In the lead-up to the race, both Alonso and Hamilton were asked if they would consider partnering each other again. Hamilton said he doesn’t mind who he races with, but Alonso said that given the choice, he’s do everything he can to avoid being Hamilton’s team-mate. The attitude is clearly coming from Alonso. So I have to wonder if the show and the dance isn’t because Hamilton passed the safety car, it’s because he did it in Spain.

    It should also be noted that it’s very easy to forget that that drivers can’t see what we see – they can’t see their front wing. So they can’t see when a line is approaching once they’re within a certain range. My bet is that Hamilton’s hesitation came as a result of his being unsure how close he was to the line, rather than an attempt to sabotage Alonso’s race.

    1. PM Hamilton is a Better PR guy. he handles the press at the best. Alonso is a lot behind in these areas. He needs to do a lot of learning in that.

      They might say things in press, but it would really matter what they are talking behind the screens, which unfortunately a whole lot of us do not have access too. I am sure Hamilton would have different opinions than what he told in the press.

  52. Any article such as this involving Hamilton and Alonso is bound to divide opinion. Personally I prefer to believe that drivers etc are telling the truth until they either admit otherwise or there is concrete evidence, so I don’t think Hamilton tried to impede Alonso.

  53. looks like hamilton didn’t know where the safety car line was

  54. nice argument Mark, facts illicited from conjecture, based on supposition. ludicrous post.

    Check Silverstone in 2 weeks if you want to know how we feel about Lewis

  55. I Voted Not sure because.

    TO sit there and plat such a thing in a split second is very difficult given that the whole thing was round the corner and the limited visibility of the drivers. So the Answer should be “No” then.

    Maybe the Mclaren Pits gave him some indication in what ever encrypted pit crew Radio that Fernando is behind him and it is easy to eliminate the Ferrari’s way then it is a “YES”.

    My answer to a question if Lewis Plotted this whole thing himself is “NO”.

    BTW a small Tit-for-Tat for Belgium 2007 eh ?

    I am wondering if the Ferrari’s are suffering from the Curse of the Small manufacturers. Each time Luca makes fun of them they end up finishing with the back markers :)

  56. Since Vetel had already passed the safety car by the time it even came out of the pit shouln’t the pace car have let by the the rest of the cars that were still on track at a controlled speed (Delta) to make it fair. Never mind if Hamilton deliberately blocked or not. I think the Stewards or safety car is more to blame here. I think Fernando is mad at Lewis in this situation because they were fairly close in points and Lewis sort of took advantage of the situation by not really blocking but not keeping a steady pace in which case both he and Fernando actually could have made it past the second pace car line before the pace car and not getting penalized.

  57. Maybe the FIA should look at amending the safety car rules and adopt those seen in other racing series.

    1) Close the pits when the SC is deployed.
    2) SC should wave past all cars until it picks up the leader.
    3) Open the pits.

    Problem is that this causes stacking as teams only have 1 box. Therefore, this could cause unnecessary danger in the pits?

    Only teams at the back would then have the advantage as they would take the compulsory tyre stop and lose little track position.

    So probably not a perfect solution.

  58. It’s like coming round a corner and seeing traffic lights changing to red. You come upon an amber and make a decision to a) ‘nail it’ or b) go for the brakes.
    Hamilton’s a smart guy and took the gamble – and this time it paid off. Amber gambler!

  59. Always Lewis. In 2007 the FIA penalty Alonso in Hungaroring for the pit incident…

    Lewis broken the rules and after the FIA change the rules…the FIA like Lewis win. This season Lewis are in all incidents and he is a great cheater and bad driver mate. Petrov incident, pole lap whitout petrol, pit incident whit Sebastien, stoping Fernando and overtaking the safety car…always Lewis, always cheater. Fia sucks and Lewis sucks. He is a great driver but whit this incidents he seem the FIA´s goldenboy.

    1. Petrov: he was breaking the tow, lets not start this again. He was warned not to do it again

      Pole lap: he broke a rule which had minimal punishment, FIA have changed this rule to stop this happening. They’re not going to change the rule to make the punishment worse. Not to mention the fact that the time gained from less fuel was less than he got pole by

      Pit Incident: yeah, that was silly of him… and vettel ;)

      This incident, as I’ve mentioned before, the SC started to move infront of him, causing him to slow, once it moved back he tried to beat it to the SC line.

      Despite my defending of hamilton, I don’t want him to win the WDC, I really don’t like his attitude at time, but he doesn’t cheat, he bends the rules like EVERYONE else is trying to do

  60. If he wasnt the liar he is i would say he hasitated because he didnt know what to do… But unfortunetly he is a patological liar so he did it on purpose

    1. @rok:
      ‘Symtoms of Pathological liars
      THEY OFTEN EXAGGERATE ISSUES. In this case, they may not be lying deliberately. They HABITUALLY LIE for many reasons, one being to HAVE THEIR OWN WAY in various activities.
      He/she think and BELIVE IN THEIR LIES COMPLETELY and often refuse to admit to the lie even when presented with evidence.’

      Hamilton has lied in the past. Incontrovertable. But had he been a habitual liar this would not have come as the shock and disappointment it did to his friends, fans and pitlane colleagues. When caught and presented with the evidence he admitted the lie. Part of that evidence was his own TRUTHFUL statements in a post race interview given prior to advice from a member of the team management. He should not have lied, it is a stain on his character that will haunt him, as now, but it does not make him a pathological liar. The statement ‘ I don’t remember exactly’ occurs time and again in interviews with drivers even when they have nothing to defend against. These are humans operating at the limit of their capabilities for long periods of time not machines recording every detail.
      In response to the ‘FIA favours Hamilton’ accusation: Remember that the situation that gave rise to ‘Lie-gate’ was brought about by the fear instilled in MacLaren by the penalties that had been levied by the FIA at every opportunity as a result of the now widely acknowledged Mosely/Dennis feud. That’s why they told Lewis to let Trulli past even though he did not need to.

      Sadly for Ferrari fans, the presuasive argument to me still is LEWIS SIMPLY WOULD NOT FEEL THE NEED TO DO THIS TO AFFECT ALONSO. He wanted to get after Vettel, whatever he did was to that end, nothing to do with a man he has always believed he can beat. Now if Vettel or Webber in a RedBull had been behind him, and Hamilton were the lightning quick tactical genius you obviously think he is then you might make a case.

  61. martin bastow
    28th June 2010, 14:59

    It has been interesting to watch the unfolding rivalry between Alonso and Hamilton since 2007,infact it is possible to watch F1 for that reason alone I suppose, but the most recent public outburst from Alonso display a man obsessed and a bit unhinged, obsessed not with cars and winning like all other top racers, but instead with Hamilton. His bitterness towards mclaren adds considerable focus and gloss to his fascination and for sure the endless polemics must be keeping him awake at night… but is that all that is keeping him awake .. could Alonso have developed a schoolyard crush on the beautiful youngster??

  62. The problem with Hamilton is that he is never aware of what he is doing.

    1. Then how does he get dressed in the morning?

  63. In 20 years time we shall look at this battle between Hamilton and Alonso and remember it as a great spectacle.

    Let’s just enjoy the racing and bicker less :)

    1. Sensible discussion is not bickering.

  64. This is totally over the top. This is Lewis Hamilton as some kind of supervillian with superpowers. If this happened in a movie as Keith suggests, people would be laughing at the screen.

    Here is what happened: Hamilton saw the SC. He thought he could get past easily, the SC mashed the gas (when Bernd realized that Vettel was past) and Hamilton reacted but not enough.

    At the end of the day, there was a violation, a penalty appropriately within the Stewards’ discrection, and the race went on. Hamilton was quick, Kobayashi was slow, a meteor failed to fall from the sky on Buemi’s car. So it goes.

    This shameful bleating from Ferrari is making the sport look silly. Let’s see what happens in Silverstone so Ferrari can make it three races in a row when they throw a tantrum over the outcome to mask their lousy strategy and Alonso’s lousy driving, and Massa’s invisible driving.

    Alonso is obviously drowing out the criticism of his driving. I don’t care if Kobayashi had nitrous in his car, a man making a mint and driving a Ferrari should not let a Sauber just drive by him on the left side like he was chained to a post. When Trulli let a superior Ferrari do that to him on the last lap, Trulli got his walking papers shortly thereafter. Alonso, here and in Canada is not looking like himself.

  65. Using another incident with the sole intention of stirring the pot…. I am not in support of this kind of purposeful manipulation.

  66. Hamilton did say always “to be honest…” Why?It´s there some doubt Hami? ah…..

    1. “To be honest” is just a phrase that people tend to use like “at the end of the day” or the classic F1 phrase “for sure”

  67. See argument already in progress:

    ME: Maybe he (HAM) checked up for another reason.. <>

    DUMB BRO: Do you think he (HAM) is that smart? I am not saying that this may not have been the reason, but if this is right, then I would say that he is potentially one of quick thinkers out on the track. :)

    ME: Either he’s (HAM) innocent, or he’s brilliant? Sounds like a win-win for him, then.

    I don’t think it takes a smart person to try and put the safety car between him and his #1 rival, only to botch it up by passing the safety car after the line. He was guilty, and dumb. :)

    He got away with it because he’s fast, and because the stewards gave him all the time in the world he needed to nullify his penalty. And also like I said last night, it’s nothing to do with LH, but infringements on the Safety Car should have the most severe penalties — Not Mass Dampers… …but that’s another story…

    It was a BS outcome for an otherwise exciting race, and now Alonso and Ferrari are getting flamed for saying so. Just because Ferrari have done their fair share of “bending the rules” in the past doesn’t make it OK for anyone else to do it now (it’s not like any of the same people even work for Ferrari now… Schumi, Brawn, Todt and Stepney are *all* gone). And Ferrari’s past is why a lot of people have it in their heads that this was OK, but this wasn’t OK.

    It’s never OK to cheat in sport — I know *everyone* does it in F1, but we ALL got cheated out of a good race between F1’s two best drivers – and it wasn’t because someone was innocent or brilliant. It was because someone was scared…

  68. Lewis always broke the rules to benefit and the other drivers don´t do it after Lewis benefict… It´s easy to understand.

    After the race Lewis never remembers nothing, he doesn´t see anything rare or he doesn´t pass anything bad. If it does already another driver we will see that it happens.

    In Silverstone go behind Lewis and come to break the rules together. If you broken the rules you win the race, if you repect the rules finisher ten or…This is a crazy! What dificult it´s penalty to Lewis after two or four laps? and no penalty after 20 laps and he has a enough gap to the other drivers. Charlie Whiting it´s a clown of the kingdom.

    At the end of the race Lewis said don´t see the saftey car…¿Doesn´t look the car? HO-HO-HO, he is a expert liar and the FIA allowed this…

    http://i47.tinypic.com/2hebuox.jpg

    1. Watch your double negatives

  69. What is beyond question is that Alonso understood the rules clearly – and had he purposefully disobeyed them, he would have ended up 3rd or 2nd.

    A rather sorry reflection I think.

    1. This is a good point. The penalty imposed on Hamilton was obviously too lenient for this reason.

      1. You do realize that Alonso by that standard should be banned from F1 together with Briatore right?

      2. It wasn’t lenient, it was just late.

        The lateness made it lenient. We just need quicker decisions from race control. This should be easy to rectify with todays GPS technology \ 2 way radio communication and especially under a controlled condition of a safety car.

    2. I’m pretty sure that if Alonso had muscled his way past the safety car he would have been disqualified.

      That’s not even close to the confusion that Hamilton had with the safety car coming out of the pitline right NEXT to him.

  70. Looks to me like he did try to hold-up the guys behind him on purpose and still be the SC to the line, but failed to beat it.

    Question: If he had held them up and actually beaten the SC to the line would people be praising him for the brilliant strategic maneuver or condemning him for unsportsmanlike conduct?

    What I dislike is the disparity between his story and the video. I quite don’t like that.

  71. In my opinion, he did so. But hey, we will never know. Just as we dont know if Alonso was involved in Singapur_gate. Oh well, some of you do, somehow. Precisely, you, the same people that now think Hamilton is as innocent as a little girl.

    Reality, we dont know.

    Facts, Hamilton version hardly matches its post race argumentation. He got soft punishment, late and only when Ferrari claimed. And this not the first time, nor the second, Hamilton is somehow taking profit of his own actions just before they are deemed illegal.

    Again, discussing this is cat & dog useless fight. For me, as F1 fan, I would like clear and sensible rules, the same for everyone.

  72. Hamilton is a good racer, no doubt, but I dont think he is clever enough to have done this deliberately…

    1. Upon further consideration, and after watching the video several times now, Im not totally certain one way or the other.

      It does seem from the video that hamilton slowed down under the yellow flags (as did alonso) long before he could actually see the safety car coming out, and then maintained a more or less constant speed while driving past the safety car, which itself continued to accelerate. Alonso, on the other hand, slowed down as soon as he saw the yellows (just like lewis), but then accelerated up to hamilton once he saw the safety car.

      No one is doubting that Alonso’s race was ruined, but Im not sure he can blame anyone but the lottery-like safety car rules.

      I’d like to say “no”, and that Lewis is innocent, but then I ask myself what I would say if Schumacher or even Alonso were the driver in question, in which case I would say “yes” in a heartbeat. I’d certainly like to hear more elaboration from Lewis and his team on this.

  73. I think it’s likely that Hamilton was just unsure about what to do, and didn’t have time to ask the team. It is really the teams fault as they would known where Lewis was on the track, and that the safety car was coming out of the pits. So they should have been able to advise Lewis that he was likely to catch the safety car just as he rounded turn one and tell what to do accordingly.

    I am pretty certain that the race officials have access to the pit communications between the cars and the pit wall (in fact in real time I believe, because I have definitely heard drivers references to Charlie Whiting, the race director, to give him information directly). With that in mind, it is highly unlikely that the team would have given Hamilton any instructions to purposely slow down and overtake the safety car, just to disadvantage the Ferrari’s.

    So it only leaves the fact that Lewis either did it with the intent of disadvantaging the Ferrari’s or he hesitated because he wasn’t sure what to do, as he realised that if he got caught behind the safety car then he his race was going downhill quickly. So, he decided to risk it and go past the safety car. And he got caught and had the according penalty.

    As usual it is Alonso, and Ferrari, moaning that the world isn’t fair. It is about time that the FIA stood up to Ferrari and not placate them every time something remotely goes against them. And finally, if the shoe was on the foot, I am pretty sure that Fernando would have done the same as Lewis, 10 times out of 10, but he would have complained bitterly about the drive through penalty afterwards.

    1. It is about time that the FIA stood up and made fair rules about the Safety Cars and used effective penalties when these are transgressed.

      Ferrari was quite correct in pointing out an illegal move which gave an advantage to Hamilton. Because of the non-penalty penalty, this is an advantage he and McLaren carry into the championship standings.

  74. Grosjean's rubble
    28th June 2010, 17:05

    is it true HAM pressed the 1, 9, 11, 14, and finally 23 floor buttons in the lift, just to slow Alonso on the way to his penthouse?

  75. The ire generated on all sides by all these ridiculous penalties (‘ridiculous’ because half-measures and ill-considered attempts to be clear about and to deal sensibly with the incidents, ultimately utterly ineffective) is quite understandable – ok, I yelled a lot during the ‘race’. Nonetheless I can’t see why a generally well-reasoned and cautious blog author should be vilified for posing a question. For that matter, mightn’t he be permitted to offer opinions? If you enjoy ‘forums’ which are mere rant/insult venues, I’d like to request (purely on behalf of myself) that you either cut it out or go elsewhere.

  76. its 2 races in a row McLaren and Hamilton deliberatly broke the rules and got away with it.

    Maybe the FIA should change its name to MIA ;)

  77. sorry to say this….why everybody is worried about alonso..which seems like that he is the only one who was affected in race….there are many others also who were affected as badly as alonso….best example is his teammate massa…who was as fast as alonso till the safety car….he was also indeed waiting for alonso to finish his pits…..even michael was terribly affected due to an uncleared rules…redlights in pit was on…..hell knows why it was on that time….i feel atleast alonso got some points..

    1. In addition, Hamilton and McLaren got the advantage of the points for second place which they carry into the championship standings. This may make the difference at the end of the year to all the title contenders.

  78. Maybe it’s me (like that’s a first), but why does every decent finish “Shorty” Hamilton has had this year seem to involve controversy as well?

  79. It’s quite funny to see people defending Hamilton. They end up claiming that the poor man just isn’t clever enough to have blocked his arch-rival deliberately, doesn’t know the rules regarding Safety Car deployments, and can’t remember what he did during the race.

    His only defence is stupidity, ignorance and forgetfulness.

    1. But if he did it, why is it illegal so long as he is within his delta time?

      If Schumacher had did this we’d have been going ‘the meister is back in town.’ There’s nothing illegal here.

      Perhaps Alonso should have been ahead of Hamilton on the track in the first place.

      1. It would be legal were it not for article 151… dirty tricks like this bring the sport into disrepute.

        1. Err, Don’t think you would want to pull 151 in anything involving Alonso

  80. Yet again brillient article Kieth. We all know that Hamilton hates ALonso and i am sure that if it was another driver behind him he wouldn’t do that. It reminds of the Piquet Jr thing last year. Also Kieth what i like about you is that you are not biased towards another driver, keep up that good work :)

    1. And this is the problem I have with Keith putting on articles like this. It only encourages a false defaming of drivers. We would never know what the truth is. So in the end, Alonso is labeled pansy, Hamilton a cheat… Who wins? The journalist? It surely isn’t the F1 fan.

      There is so much more we can focus on rather than these obvious begs for posts.

      1. We would never know what the truth is.

        Not necessarily – Hamilton may say more about what happened, or perhaps (as happened after Turkey) some new radio communications from one team will come to light, or something else.

  81. This is a serious matter that should have been investigated way more: most people missed, didn’t notice, actually the safety car should have been given a drive through because it touched the white line on the pit exit. Since it wasn’t noticed live, the safety car should be now punished and be given +20 seconds delay on the final race time, thus allowing Fernando Alonso to win, Felipe Massa to be second, and most everyone else to be DSQ for unsportsmanship.

  82. Just listening to BBC podcast, Alonso said he feels sorry for the fans who came to see “a race like that”. What about the fans who went to Singapore 08 ?!

    1. I couldn’t agree more

      1. I was at Singapore 2008. Loved every second it & the scandal that unfolded afterwards have had not the slightest effect on that. Besides, when all you armchair viewers bring up Singapore 2008 in support of your latest Alonso-bashing argument, I can chime in as the person on the ground as it were, and state that I would not have changed being there for all the tea in China.

        1. I was there too, enjoyed it but thought at the time something fishy had gone on. My point is this is just so ridiculously hypocritical, don`t you think ? The only man in the field to have won a race through cheating, involving a safety car is bleating on about this ? And even if Hamilton had not passed the safety car Alonso`s race would not have gone any better. He is just obsessed with Hami, and feels Hami got one over on him. He cannot see how hypocritical or how foolish he is being, all he can see is Hamilton, coming out on top again.

  83. This proves yet again that Felipe Massa is the most unluckiest driver of them all.

    1. I must apologise to Felipe for jinxing him, by putting him in my Fantasy F1 team. :D

  84. Alonso is a paranoid cheat. When he’s bettered or a call doesn’t go his way he likes to think it’s because others are cheating to psyche himself up. After Monaco, where he exploited the early safety car deployment to finish 6th, no one said he wasn’t sufficently punished for crashing in qualifying. After Singapore 08 he shouldn’t open his mouth at all.

    1. One thing is to come into the race after a sc in a stochastic manner, and a totally different thing is that yo do so conditioned by someone else’s actions, and that is what is being discussed here. Believe it or not, it is quite likely that LH did that; and it is quite unlikey that FA would have done the same. But we will never know really.

      As for Singapore, for sure FA was not involved (my opinion after listening to him in so many occasions). If it is true what Piquet said, that was terrible (but had nothing to do with FA); but I also doubt it having heard so many things of the Piquet father and son and Briatore “romance” over the years.

      I and many others will appreciate a respectful approach when writing here. Thanks.

      1. So Hamilton is the smart guy who can calculate this in a split second.

        Yet Alonso being given the weirdest race tactics ever in Sing2008 doesn’t see anything wrong and just accepts it?

        win/win I guess.

        BTW Do you think FA racing his teammate in the pit lane is sports man like?

      2. It’s an opinion and a fair one at that. Nothing rude at all. Alonso’s attitude to Singapore 08 speaks volumes apart from the circumstanial evidence pointing his way. He shouldn’t have Hamilton on the brain so much.

    2. Fernando is not a cheat. If you remember it
      was fernando that blew the whistle and gave all the evidence to the F1 board about Lewis and Maclaren cheating by stealing FERRARIs technical data.(And even with all that info they still could not win the F1
      championship.) Cheats.

  85. Well, if he did what’s the problem? That would be smart driving within the rules.

    1. Come to think of it, you’re absolutely right. All drivers will exploit available loopholes if they’re quick enough. That is why there needs to be some way to make sure that the safety car picks up the race leader.

  86. It’s totally ridiculous to have a safety car come out of the driver who is 2nd. The safety must come out in time to catch the leader. If it doesn’t make it, it must wave all drivers past until the leader comes around again. That’s how it works in Indycar, Grand Am etc.

    The question whether the incident was intentional or malicious is really beside the point. It’s obvious it happened following confusion caused by incompetent race control, just like Monaco.

    1. Actually, I’ve just reread the Safety Car rules in the Sporting Regulations on the FIA’s website.

      It makes no mention of having to be deployed ahead of the leader.
      “40.6 The safety car will join the track with its orange lights illuminated and will do so regardless of where the
      race leader is.”
      “40.9 The safety car shall be used at least until the leader is behind it and all remaining cars are lined up behind
      him.”

      These two rules are incompatible as far as I understand them. If the Safety Car is deployed at any time, and let’s say the driver in 2nd place ends up behind it. Eventually, the leader will catch up with the rest of the field and line up right at the back, almost a lap ahead of everyone else. Without pitstops, he will never be behind the Safety Car, so, according to 40.9, the Safety Car will stay out forever.

      This makes no sense. Anyone understand it?

      1. Nope, it does make sense.
        “40.8 When ordered to do so by the clerk of the course the observer in the car will use a green light to signal to
        any cars between it and the race leader that they should pass. These cars will continue at reduced speed
        and without overtaking until they reach the line of cars behind the safety car.”

        That’s apparently what happened in the race. So, no problem as far as I’m concerned.

  87. I agree with those saying he tried to push Alonso behind the car. But, and now there is the twist, if he had made it past the Safety Car legally, it would have been perfectly okay with me. This is a, while sinister, intelligent piece of strategy that I would have my drivers try as well.

  88. Hamilton made a mistake and payed for it with a penalty i thing Alonso should shut up an make a better impression on the next race to prove Hamilton gain second place by cheating

    1. made a msitake and payed for it? they let it linger for 20 laps to let him get enough time between him and Kobayashi, then they “sanctioned” him ;)

    2. Making a better impression in the next race doesn’t prove anything about Hamilton gaining second place by cheating in this race.

      1. Yes, rather hard to see how he “paid” – but, wasn’t it actually Sauber strategy that made the penalty ineffective?

  89. Lewis Did nothing wrong.
    he was driving as he should until the safety car came out.
    once he had spotted it he was near enough along side it and at that point he lifts off, as to say “hang on I’m not supposed to pass that”.
    had he passed the safety car line before the SC did he would have not have endured the penalty.
    he hesitated, did not know what to do and did wrong, therefore serving a correct penalty.
    It was by no means an act to disadvantage Fernando, who by the way should be quiet and stop whining as Lewis served the correct penalty.
    he simply created enough of a gap to keep his second place.
    Had he have come out fifth, sixth, maybe even seventh Fernando would have left it he just wasn’t happy that Lewis wasn’t disadvantaged enough in his eyes.

  90. luis calderon
    28th June 2010, 19:58

    It is not the first time he break the rules or find a loophole in the rules. Same in Canada, the pit case with Vetel. No punishment or just a reprimand. Has he pay the FIA so he can do whatever he likes. It is not right what he does, and it seems that FIA likes it. The other driver should do the same, let see what happens.

    1. After Canada the FIA clarified the rules so drivers can’t do the same again. They did the same regarding Schumacher’s pass on Alonso at Monaco.

  91. i donno if any1 mentioned this b4 but i’ll throw it out there…
    if hamilton went all out and passed the SC b4 it passes the 2nd white line it would be alonso in hamilton’s shoes deciding if he can pass or not, and if so would it be massa complaining how alonso ruined his race?

  92. Yea he did it..He knows he can get away w/murder…look at some of his pranks..he even got a crane..remember?

    He is a very good driver, he doesnt have to sink to new lows and take advantage of his popularity, especially with the poorly run and UK biased FIA. He knows he’s going to get the calls, and the penalties, if any, will be light…

    This dude got no honor..Thumbs down..

    1. I can’t believe anyone is still bothered about the crane. Hamilton had the persistence to stay in his car while the rest gave up and got out. For that he should be applauded, not criticised.

  93. Re Hamilton’s memory, doesn’t the ‘don’t exactly recall’ come into play when the McLaren corporate machine has advised him to consider his words…?
    They do tend to make the rules too complicated. Hamilton had passed 2 flashing yellows, so he was expecting the safety car. The rule should be not to pass the safety car, wherever you see it, unless to avoid doing so would cause an accident (exactly like traffic lights). If you have to overshoot, allow the safety car back in front to avoid controversy…

    1. The rule should be not to pass the safety car, wherever you see it, unless to avoid doing so would cause an accident

      Actually I think the present version of the rule is much clearer and easier to enforce than the one you’ve suggested.

      At the moment the drivers know if they’re ahead of the safety car after the second safety car line, that’s fine. It doesn’t matter if they ‘pass’ it while it’s in the pit lane exit. And that is a good rule because, as you note, if they had to slow down and follow the safety car the second they saw it that could mean drivers having to slow down dramatically on the track.

  94. To my mind, Alonso has no place whatsoever moaning about other drivers antics. Aside from the fact that he’s supposedly a great driver, he’s as devious as the next man, and on this occasion, got overtaken by a rookie in a vastly inferior car!

    Anyway, how many times has Alonso been advantaged by the safety car, or employed dubious tactics on track? Piquet Jnr anyone? The single worst case of cheating in F1, Alsonso took the win, then stayed ominously quiet after the event. He’s happy for his team to cheat when it favours him it would seem.

    He has blatant double standards and is a back-stabber. How I will laugh when Ferrari descends into a farce over this guy, they’ll regret ever entertaining him!

    1. I don’t understand why this myth endures that Alonso was ‘given’ the win in Singapore. Sure, the team tactics helped, but that was just one variable in a race full of them. He still had to race, make no mistakes, have a reliable car, exceute pitstops correctly, and hold off the other drivers. Remember the old adage ‘to finish first, first you must finish’. While he may have had an advantage, Piquet’s actions did not guarantee the win. So for those reasons I beleive Alonso is justified in accepting the win. And there is no shred of evidence to suggest Alonso knew anything of the plan. But I know you rabid anti-Alonso brigade will never beleive that no matter what I or anyone else says.

      1. Where was he before safety car in Singapore ?

    2. Thank You!
      Honestly, Fernando is happy to call to question other drivers actions, when he knew only too well that the stunt Renault pulled endangered Nelson Piquet Jnr’s Life, and all for the sake of a victory!
      When Lewis makes a mistake such as this it is a “Disgusting Act” In Fernando’s Eyes, yet he is only to happy to endanger his team mates life for his own benefit.
      Consider This People.
      In fact I was reading an article in which Flavio Briatore claims that Lewis should have been disqualified and that he got off lightly!
      He got off only too lightly in the Singapore 2008 Scandal, he should have been banned from F1, If not all forms of Motorsport for life, Perhaps even endured a hefty Fine Even.
      Case Dismissed

  95. Martin Brundle says it just right on his blog. ‘Hamilton didn’t harm them; it was just fate and co-incidence as to where the safety car emerged. They should be equally unhappy about Vettel, who was just in front Hamilton. ‘

  96. SchumacherFan
    28th June 2010, 21:46

    I don’t think he slowed to put Alonso behind the safety car, I think that Hamilton was just unsure on what the current situation was, wondering whether to pass or slow down but in the end he did go past the saftey car despite slowing down and I think he slowed down because he was unsure of the situation and perhaps wasn’t crystal clear on the rules.

  97. John Edwards
    28th June 2010, 21:53

    Is it me or does anybody else find it hilarious that the Ferrari think the FIA manipulated the result against them?!!

    Well if they did; about bloody time, they have some way to go to even up the score!!!

    1. Hi John, yes I do!

  98. This thread is far below the normal standards for this site. The only ones still moaning about Hamilton are Ferrari and Alonso, hardly the paragons of virtue.

  99. Well the video shown on in the article now is clear, alonso was nowhere near Lewis to be slowed down.

  100. Sorry if this has already been posted but with 200 something comments i just cant read all of them. I’ve looked at many other websites as well as this one and am yet to hear what I think. He knew the consequences, but realised that the result outweighed them. He made around 1 minute 40 seconds, and then lost 20, its simple, you dont have to be a genius to figure that out. Its something he could have done in the car, he could have started slowing down and then realized it.

    He slowed down and hesitated, but then said he never did hesitate, so he deliberetly slowed down, not out of confusion, but for some other reason. Weather this be to slow Alonso or not, its odd behaviour and should be investigated by the FIA, and hopefully we get a fair judgement.

  101. maestrointhesky
    28th June 2010, 22:52

    Is it just me or does anyone else notice that the safety car appears to cross the white line just in front of Hamilton and this is the cause of his hesitation! My view is that Hamilton thought for a moment that that the safety car was going to pull out directly in front of him, fully crossing over the white line. When he realises that it’s not, he puts his foot down again and makes it around the corner in front. If anyone was at fault then it’s the driver of the safety car who should know the rules like the back of his hand. It appearS to me now that it’s a good job Hamilton’s position wasn’t diminished as this could have been seen as an own goal by the organisers!

    1. I totally agree with you. This is exactly my point. When HM was crusing the safety car crossed the white line and HM slowed coz of this and when the safety car went back between the white line he passed the car. Now from my understanding when the safety car passed the white line (official end of pit lane) HM was only half the car’s length behind. At the speeds they are travelling it would be very difficult to judge this.

  102. There is one thing that is not correct for definite and I agree with Alonso on this one… why did it take 20 laps to give the penalty to Hamilton when it was clear on the replays he went passed after the SC line?

    The drive through would have affected him much more and for me, it’s this 20 lap delay that would put the ‘manipulation’ thoughts into Fernando’s head, and perhaps he has a point.

    About 20 people in that stewards room and 20 laps… it doesn’t look good.

    1. It was only 10 laps after Aloso brought it up to the stewards. They probably were not aware at that point that there was an issue.

      They then have to review the footage, and the only clear evidence was from the helicopter, a movable camera that could have been pointed at any part of the race track.

  103. no way was Alonso going to get passed that Safety car, full stop. regardless of Lewis hesitation.

    i can see now why the stewards took so long to give a penalty though, looking from Lewis point of view “cockpit image” he would have found it hard to tell if he was in front or not.

    even Alonso would of had a hard time knowing if he Lewis had made it from his angle “cockpit image”.

    but the aerial view was definitely the killer for Lewis.
    trouble was Lewis didn’t have the luxury of this view in his cockpit.

    no i believe he got it wrong at the time, “more likely hesitated” and got stung for it.
    unbeknown at the time didn’t cost him any places…

    “Lewis” well done on creating another excellent controversy.

  104. I’m not sure if Hamilton hesitated deliberately or not, by do you know what, I HOPE HE DID. The Spaniard has gone from being a highly respected double world champion to a bitter man who constantly moans and complains. He also makes a heap of mistakes (since 2007 when he had a real team mate always has done). I’m sorry to those Alonso supporters out there but you know deep down what i’m talking about. They say adversity brings out your true character – try comparing Mark Webber (Vettel taking him out and then his team not supporting him) to Alonso and it’s like chalk and cheese.

  105. why is FIA always in favour of hamilton?? I don’t understand, this is not an sport.

    1. Clearly they aren’t. You only have to look at a race like Spa ’08 to see that’s not the case.

      If they were, they wouldn’t have given him a penalty at all.

      1. Well they still favour him and this is obvious in just about anything else that he does. Any thing he does wrong, its either a reprimand (that does nothing) or a penalty that either way still does nothing. The FIA need to start hidding their favoring of Hamilton a little better because people are finding out, and just about everyone on this website know it.

        You would have to be foolish and naive to say and actually beleive that the FIA is not biased towards him. That or your a Hamilton fanboy, in which case I sympathise you as you have to defend your beloved driver just about every race.

        1. Or paranoid to believe he is. Most drivers got off rather easily this season, and after the last few years, with questionable penalties (quite a few in favor of Ferrari too!) I was glad of it. But now we see that maybe they do need to tighten the reigns a bit.

          Apparently unlike Alonso, race control had a race to mind during and after the SC-period. I really think Alonso could have salvaged 7th if he would have minded his own race instead of Hamilton a bit more.

          Without the SC period, Alonso and Hamilton might have fought Vettel, and it would have been great for Ferrari and the WDC if Alonso won that, with Vettel second.

          But it didn’t happen, and would not have happened, because Vettel was always in front of the SC, so as soon as the SC happened, Alonso was forced to live with 6th at best (Hamilton behind SC, overtaken on pitting for nose). But he didn’t seem to care for any points, as long as Hamilton was punished. Not good.

  106. Oddly, no one has yet noticed here whether any one of the other drivers who finished between Hamilton and Alonso, i.e, any of those who could claim some actual injury, issued epic press comments about Hamilton’s role in the decline of civilization?

    Let’s see, any pulsing veins at RedBull who lost massive ground in the WCC as a result? Renault who had a run at a podium? Perhaps Button made his comments in private, being so neat. Just Ferrari? OK, then.

    Alonso, Luca, and the bloke who tossed the beer bottle on the road, are standing alone together.

    1. If HAM did do it on purpose then good on Him, As for the beer bottle on the track why wasnt the safety car deployed, to see a marshal running on a live track was as shocking to watch as WEB`s crash, and if it was thrown Valencia should be struck off the calender, where will it end, bricks an stones?

      1. Was the bottle even thrown at a specific car, or an open space on track?

        I mean, Turkey got a severe reprimand for having dogs on the track, for your information, dogs have legs and a mind of their own. But bottles just don’t wake up and take a hike.

  107. Whatever the case, I’m disappointed because that Safety Car robbed us of what was shaping up to be a fascinating Vettel-Hamilton-Alonso fight for the win. I’d much rather be looking back on that than another silly bit of unneeded F1 controversy.

    I think it’s time the FIA introduced a safety car system that helps preserve the race rather than shake up the order. I want to watch real racing!

    1. I’m with you Jasper. We need some better rules around the safety car – i’m not interested in watching a lottery i want to watch the best drivers race each other and for the best driver to come out on top.

  108. I think Hamilton did take advantage of the situation. His post race interview to me was very unconvincing, and in truth, what else could he say? The McLaren pitwall must have known that the Webber crash would bring out the safety car, indeed they would have seen the safety car leave the pits knowing that Hamilton was still on the start finish straight. It is impossible for me to believe that McLaren did not inform Lewis of this fact before he drew level with the safety car, or even came within sight of it.
    I am sure Fernando Alonso is thinking along these lines, as were Ferrari yesterday when they released their statement. As for Alonso, I think his anger is as much related to Ferrari’s lack of performance in 2010 as Lewis Hamilton’s supposed antics. It is worth remembering that Alonso entered this season as one of the favourites to win the world championship, in a car that is without doubt the most coveted drive in Formula One. Fernando was supposed to bring about a new drive and era to the Scuderia, following on from the heavily criticised Kimi Raikkonen. Lets face it, since the Bahrain Gp, this year has been one long frustration after another for the Spaniard. He crashed during practice at Monaco, pretty much destroying his chances for the event, aswell as a qualifying gaffe at Turkey. And, as if to add insult to injury, he has seen Red Bull and McLaren become stronger and stronger as Ferrari struggle to find their groove.
    Valencia had, if the press were to be believed, a turning point for Alonso and Ferrari. The team had installed upgrades to the car, and Fernando was showing good pace, infront of thousands of his own countrymen.
    We all know that there is no love lost between Fernando and Hamilton, and McLaren as a team basically.
    Ofcourse it must have hit a raw nerve, to see the McLaren flash past the pace car and into to sunset. However, despite all the hoopla, Hamilton was punished for what he did whether it was by accident or on purpose. If the rules are at fault, then it is the fault of those who are incharge, not the drivers.

  109. Peter Hermann
    29th June 2010, 0:18

    I’m surprised about the ‘Alonso would have done the same’ answers. Surprised becaused i don’t remember a single incident where Alonso tried anything alike. He knew he had to stay behind the safety car and that he did. Hamilton did not.

    Deliberate or not, the incompetence of race control is astonishing, most of those guys have been doing this for years and still don’t know how to do it correctly..should i believe this? Nah.

    Dunno about Hmailton being deliberate. Quite sure of Whiting being deliberate. He is the one who sends out the safety car. Out with Whiting!!!

    1. i don’t remember a single incident where Alonso tried anything alike.

      Yes you do, remember Hungry 2007? Alonso holds Hamilton up in the pits so that Hamilton can’t get a final flying lap in, despite being quicker than Alonso in 2 sectors. This is the reality of Alonso vs Hamilton, Alonso can’t stand Hamilton past formalities? :)

      video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWJCGInsVUs
      article : f1fanatic

      1. Hardly the same thing. For a start this was during quali. For a second, it was done in direct retaliation for Hamilton refusing to allow Alonso do an extra hot lap. Thirdly, Ron Dennis knew full well what had gone on and left Alonso high & dry in the steward’s meeting afterward, so that Alonso copped the penalty. So really, Lewis did the wrong thing, Nando reacted (whatever your private thoughts are on the manner in which he reacted are a different thing altogether), and Nando got the punishment. And whilst I tend to agree that Alonso is not always rational when it comes to Hamilton/McLaren and needs to move on a bit, I can certainly see why he feels that way.

        1. I disagree with you on that. Ron tried to make excuses for Alonso that it was a team error and the result was that Mclaren got fined or deducted points or both, I believe. You seem to have forgotten that Mclaren got punished along with Alonso.

        2. I’m merely pointing out Alonso has the malice in him to try and perform some sort of action to put off Lewis’ race, nothing more.

          The principle is, in fact, exactly the same thing, if not more so, as it was clearly deliberate, Lewis’ was debatable. ( As we are in fact debating it! )

          He’s not an angel. Ron Dennis was furious with Alonso and his race engineer, as you can see in the video. (he removes the race engineers headset and radio and talks to Alonso himself ). I think if it was my team, I’d be furious as well.

          However I do agree he needs to forget it, be the bigger man, and move on. Some of their fans will eventually fall out of love with them.

          People want to see the best drivers in the world racing. He’s been overtaken in the last two races in slightly embarrassing ways as well, which can’t help the ego.

      2. Do you know whom that final flying lap belonged to? Alonso. Do you know who decided not to respect that agreement and made Alonso going nuts? Yep, the same boy.

        Perhaps there’s a spoiled child with an unlimitless ambition, forgiveable if at least he recognized his tactics, as Senna did in the past for example.

        Alonso is showing maturity on one side, but a tryly passionate racer, boils when unfair play gets no REAL punishment.

        Cheers.

        Cheers.

        1. You are tactically missing the point. I am referring to Ron Dennis trying to defend Alonso and hence got Mclaren into trouble. What Preceded that is of no relevance to the point being made.

  110. If Hamilton was trying to stop Alonso then it was a great shame for him as they both fought hard but fair in the Canadian GP now this will fire up things more.

  111. If Ferrari’s moaning helps change the SC rules sooner rather than later, then im all in with Ferrari moaning!

  112. Shiraz Dada
    29th June 2010, 8:37

    These drivers are very competant and knowledgeable about teh rules but play stupid.
    There was definately a alternative motive to what LH did wether by his own decision or in cahoots with the guys at pitlane.
    There is no way he was confused about what he was doing and his actions definately was to disadvantage the guys behind.
    Hope this goes further and we get another teary eyed interview from him of how sorry he is !!

    1. The drivers know the rules, but the safety car was moving, now knowing if you will break the rule or not depends on how fast the safety car is moving towards a line. A line you will meet after a corner.

    2. @Shiraz I’m not convinced they do know the rules as well as you think they do. They have to radio in to get clarification.

      Case in point is the Schumi overtake at Monaco on the last lap, where a number of drivers radioed in for clarification, including Alonso and Schumi. Both got different answers, and reacted accordingly.

      As far as I know, there’s no exam on the rules, in order to get a licence.

      I’m afraid you’re making a bit of an assumption :)

  113. Shiraz Dada
    29th June 2010, 8:39

    Forgot to emntion how surprised i am that teh FIA regulations are so vague on details in its rules. This for the pinnacle of motorsport !!!
    There is also a double standard in the punishments that have been dished out over the last few years for infringements.

  114. Its so easy to to decide the correct action to take when watching events from your TV. I bet if Lewis had that helicopter shot, he’d have just driven as fast as he could.
    Deciding, how fast am I going, how fast is the safety car going, how far am I away from the safety car line, Oh is the safety car going to cross the white line illegally…….Thats too much. And I we see the details clearly, a driver doesn’t get that view, so even when he relates the events later, he doesn’t get it right.

    What is pushing anyway? pushing on? Does pushing mean driving at breakneck speeds? or moving along. Should that be taken to mean he lied? or just taken to mean he had his feet on the throttle pedal?

  115. The reason Hamilton slowed down was due to the delta reading he got on is steering wheel which tells all drivers they should slow down, which Hamilton did but on seeing the SC he wanted to pass it so carried on, it;’s obvious that Alonso didn’t slow down on seeing the Delta reading as he also wanted to pass the SC, which in itself is dbreaking F1a rules…

    Even with Hamilton slowing down, Alonso was too far behind him to catch the SC & overtake it, so blaming Hamilton is a way of taking the higlight off his imept performance, as we saw later when he was over taken by Kobayshi..

    You can tell Alonso wasn’t on form due to him trying to get teh other 7-8 drivers in fron’t of him time penalties so that he could finish higher up the table.. this isn’t about other drivers breaking rules, maiking mistakes, it’s all about Alonso & his inept driving ability…

    1. NO.

      Alonso was perfectly able to follow Hamilton, just look at videos and review timetables. Hamilton first accelerated, then slowed down when probably saw the ocassion, knowing also both of them had to pit at the same time and he had to change front wing. So he knew for sure he would loss position to Alonso then.

      The point here is Hamilton tried his gamble, and again a rule was bended from stewards to its maximum in order to ‘limit damages’.

      Cheers.

      1. Actually, the video shows Lewis slowing down at the Start/Finish line, you’d have to assume this is something to do with the delta times as you can’t see the actual SC at this point, he then speeds up a little, lifts off slightly as he sees the car, then passes the car.

        All of which makes no difference to me. If he backed Alonso up, it was a great move!! Personally, I would like to think that I had the cunning to do the same if I was in that position.

        I think if I was Alonso, I’d be really annoyed too, but there’s nothing to do about it at that stage, just race.

        I’m sure if Alonso did it, he’d be hailed as a genius by his fans. I’m fairly sure McLaren wouldn’t be making such a big noise about it though.

        1. The video also showed The safety car swerving towards Hamilton then corrected itself, this caused Hamilton to pause.

  116. Btw, if anyone should be agry at anyone else, then it should be all the drivers that got stuck behind Koybashi Suaber which gave Hamilton the 13 second gap so that he was able to do the penalty drive through & still come out in 2nd place…. if those cars behind him had been better, then they would have been able to pass Hamilton while he was in th epit lane… so I say again, it’s down to Alonso’s inept driving that caused him the problems nothing else :)

    1. Again, NO.

      First we had a weird situtation caused by SC, an unpunished driver, and then probably a completely frustrated man in a circuit known for allowing scarce overtakings without risking everything (cannot compromise the championship), unless you try something different as Kobayashi did.

      Sometimes logic, and just not you desire to bash would be sufficient to see things different.

      Cheers.

      1. @Cyprus-Toon mm, you’re on your own here. No one’s gonna be angry at the drivers behind Kobayashi, or indeed at Kobayashi

        @tactical He was punished. That’s what a drive through is. It just didn’t significantly disadvantage him to the satisfaction of many.

        By his own word, is Kobayashi took someone out with his overtaking, he wouldn’t be hailed as a hero, but a zero. The fact is, he did it. So he deserves the applause! We have a real racer in F1!! :)

        1. I don’t know, might have been amusing if kobayashi took alonso out, just to see what they would have moaned at.

          1. @disjunto Ferrari never moan. They just consistently and continuously raise questions and pursue answers on behalf of all the real race fans in the world ;-)

          2. oh ok ;) my bad :D

  117. Even if the answer is YES, than congratulations to Lewis. I’m badly tired of moaning from RED side of garages. After each race, they are just coming with so many new “why”, they are not competitive. New teams, other drivers, race trucks, etc. I’d ask the question. When they come to conclusion that their real problem, is their new driver? It is shame, that they put all support on Fernando, who is, as describe by Italian media, just “fake master”, and turn more attention to Fellipe? That should pay back to Ferrari.

    1. I don’t think that that will make all the difference. The car just is not entirely fast enough, and they do seem to have issues getting the qualifying tires just right (McLaren improved on this from earlier, Red Bull are top notch with that this year). On top of that, they were a bit too confident after testing and Bahrain, I think, which backfired after.

      Especially after a year like 2009, there is pressure to do better, but that pressure seems more stifling (and leading to rants and excuses) than it helps to focus and get results, sadly.

  118. I think having the time to look at the video, listen to people, things people spotted. I’m convinced Lewis is just telling the story as it is, and he’s not lying.

    – I do think he cared more about getting to Vettel than worrying about Alonso.
    – he slowed down at the start finish, possibly because of delta times
    – sped up slightly
    – saw SC when he was level with it. (SC veered across white line slightly)
    – he slowed slightly
    – as the SC was technically in the pit exit lane, he pushed on when he realised he was level or already past, although as a result missed the SC lane.
    – he wasn’t lying. I don’t think Alonso was that important to him.
    – in light of this the punishment is fair.

    However, you can see where Alonso is coming from, under pressure, frustrated. He’s getting overtaken more often this season. He probably expects to win another championship with Ferrari. I feel for him, but this is racing, he needs to get on with it.

    1. – saw SC when he was level with it. (SC veered across white line slightly)

      Should read:

      – saw SC ahead of him, THEN draw level with it.
      – SC veered across white line slightly

  119. From his comments you can really tell that he knew about the rules, the second SC line… He did not hesitate about that part during the press conference, so why he slowed down???
    Again, he does not remember the rest of the history. I guess that’s the clever thing when you have been caught before lying, if you say that you don’t remember the telemetry can not proof you are lying…
    LH has an impressive record in terms of penalties, drive throughs, reprimands,.. He have also lied before or said not to remember important (negative) information like in China 07. A record difficult to ignore when considering the case. He is not the sportsman of the year and has never hesitated to cross the rules in his favour. So the answer for me should be a clear (but unfortunately difficult to prove) YES
    On the other hand, the farce of last Sunday is not entirely his fault. The FIA should work out a better SC system and once and forever a better and clearer penalty system. Is completely absurd to give penalties that are not effective, they should be able to adapt the penalty to the crime. Otherwise, any penalty is a lottery when you can’t be sure what the driver is going to get.

    1. Hamilton is hardly the one who set the benchmark for using tricks: only look at Schumacher’s record and you see that tricks by team (hey Ferrari, yes, Benetton you too) and driver do give advantages. About before that, I don’t recall, I was too young in the 80ties and before. Alonso cannot escape some of the bad actions from 2007 (he did test and discuss those spygate info, not Ham), and he profited from his team manipulating Singapore 2008, known by him or not.

      Sad, but the truth: in the real world, in F1, and in football (see players going to the ground upon no impact at all to get a penalty), cheating does work, especially if you are not caught on time, and often even then, as you can delay justice enough for it not to work.

      To avoid that, you have to make rules clearer (maybe by making them simpler?), and in the real world, we have judges to decide and use common sense.

      In sport that does not always work, as the ‘judges’ themselves then get called partial by teams and fans alike, regardless of fact.
      Thus, making rules that micro manage and are thus complicated seems the only option. Sad but true.

      1. I suppose when looking at Piquet, Prost, Mansell and lets not forget Senna, we could find a long list of “unfair” things. Some of the actions are something their fans came to be “proud” of, like a trademark move!

        I do think the FIA should work at simpler rules, this saves them from having to make stop gap solutions for detials they oversaw and makes desicions easiere for Race control and better to unserstand for drivers, teams and FANS.

        About the judges, just to bad even in the “real world” politicians and media often question what they are doing. Sometimes because of inconsistency or wrong desicions or worries of corruption, (Trademark of Mosleys FIA, usual in Italy, a lot of Easern European countries, Russia, Africa Asia, etc.).
        The recipy to improving that is the same everywhere:
        – clear rules
        – Indepentdent Judges having the right knowledge
        – consistent judgements, at best the rulings should be explained in the open
        – a big help are open procedures where everyone can see what is discussed, so any doubts are taken away.

  120. even if he (lewis) did impede his getting past the SC, Alonso should have passed the SC on the outside (the penalty would still have been the same for both of them) that way Alonso wouldn’t have complained .. maybe Massa could have followed both as well .. ;)

    1. Hamilton pass was marginal, if Alonso passed it would be an obvious offense, and probably a bigger penalty. if Massa passed, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him DSQ, since he was way back and would have been a massive safety issue.

      other than that, good plan ;)

  121. Hamilton failed to comply with the rules, Alonso meet standards.

    Result:

    Hamilton 2, Alonso 8.

    This is justice offered by the FIA

  122. There is a question which no one seems to have answered: How did Vettel and Hamilton get to be first and second behind the Safety Car for the restart? Logic says that either they had to slow down and let the Safety Car go in front of them or they had to do a full lap of the circuit faster than the Safety Car, overtake all the other cars, then take their places as first and second.
    And what is the point of this? The point is even if Hamilton had blazed past the Safety Car hundreds of meters either before or after that line on the ground, he would still have ended up second behind the Safety Car, and that Alonso would have been third. While Hamilton broke the rules, the end result would have been the same if he had legally passed or had chosen not to pass i.e. Vettel =1, Hamilton = 2, Alonso =3, etc.
    Notice that: no difference. See that! There is not one iota of difference between what took place and what could have taken place.
    Let me go through it again.
    If Hamilton had legally passed the Safety Car, as Vettel had done, then … he would have been second behind the Safety Car at the restart.
    If Hamilton had chosen to not overtake the Safety Car, then … he would have been second behind the Safety Car at the restart.
    What Hamilton did was to illegally pass the Saftey Car and at the restart he was second behind Vettel.
    See that: no difference!

    Yes, Hamilton broke the rules, but that did not disadvantage Alonso or any other driver one little bit. We know this because Vettel overtook the Saftey Car legally and was the car leading the pack at the restart. If Alonso had stayed out, then he would have been third and not Kobayashi.

    1. Hamilton and Vettel were able to drive around the track faster than anyone stuck behind the safety car, allowing them to get into the pits and out again before the safety car had caught up with them.

      Everyone behind Massa pitted before they got to the SC and so were able to catch up the SC without losing much position. Either the SC started letting people through or it went all the way around with Alonso and Massa stuck behind at a slower pace while everyone caught up with them after having pitted already. Once Alonso and Massa pitted, they got dropped into the pack still coming up to the SC and lost positions as a result.

      The issue isn’t anything to do with Hamilton going past them, it’s to do with the SC coming out in the middle of the pack, and causing the people on the S/F straight a massive disadvantage to the people that got out infront of them AND people who were able to get into the pits before reaching the SC.

      To prevent this, they need to change something in the rules by closing the pits during SC or something similar.

  123. I stick with my first statement: Hamilton pushed Alonso behind the SC and then bolted, though just a bit late, just like the penalty he earned for it.

    On other matters: The final turn must have been a very busy place when the SC came out since, according to the drives, 9 guys were taking it. Man that must have been a good dice. LOL

  124. It is amazing the FIA, are making sense of the word MA. F. I. A.

  125. All of You who think that Hamilton tried to stop Alonso from passing the safety car have overlooked the real crime in this incident:
    Red Bull caused this on purpose to put Vettel in front:
    On first lap Webber simulates a tire problem by dropping down the grid to 9th. Then to make it plausible that he had a problem with a tire, he pits and get a fresh set of tires. To make sure that he gets out behind a slow Lotus, the pitcrew acts as if the wheelnut on one wheel is causing problems. Now Webber gets out on track behind Kovi, attacks him, slipstreams him and make a huge collision to get the safety car applied exactly after Vettel has passed the pit, but before the number two driver (HAM) could pas. In this way Red Bull would make sure that Vettel would get max points and their worst competitors: HAM, Button, Alonso and Massa would get caught behind the SC, while everyone else pitted and thus they would loose a lot of points, because it is difficult to overtake in Valencia.
    If You ask: “Why on earth should Webber agree to this scam?” the answer is simple: Red Bull of course favors Vettel and they have blaimed Webber and forced him to pay something back to Vettel in this way to compensate Vettel for the lost points because of the accident caused by Webber in Turkey.
    At the same time Red Bull could show how dangerous it is with these slow backmarkers like the Lotus.
    The fact that Webber was very angry after the accident – throwing his steering wheel out indicates he has received drama lessons to play the role perfect or he was just angry that he had been forced to do it.
    Red Bull have received help from Briatore to think this up – he even try to help by claiming that Hamilton should have had the Black flag for passing the SC.
    How do You like this theory? ;-)

  126. Mr. Zing Zang
    30th June 2010, 3:32

    Hamilton is the smartest driver on the grid. People just don’t want to accept that.

  127. I think this “sport” is totally corrupted.

  128. MouseNightshirt
    30th June 2010, 18:13

    Is it bad of me that Alonso getting screwed over, by being held up by someone being deliberately slow infront of him, raises a smile on my face?

    Hungary 07 anyone?

    1. My point exactly! :)

  129. anthony lobatt
    1st July 2010, 0:10

    14 reasons why the Grand Prix of Valencia was manipulated

    1) Charlie W. is viewing the positions in the race of all drivers via GPS

    2) Charlie keeps the pit-line closed the when the first 4 cars passed(statement by commenting that Massa could not enter the pi-lane because it was closed).

    3) Charlie opens the pit-lane immediately so that all other drivers to enter the box.

    4) Charlie orders the safety car out just in time for Vettel and Hamilton pass fair enough.

    5) Hamilton slows to avoid passing Alonso at the safety car.

    6) Hamilton miscalculates times and is forced to overtake the safety car not to get stuck.

    7) Charlie sees everything but GPS does not report because that was his interest.

    8 ) Charlie heard the radio conversations of Alonso with his team (they have access to all radios) but does nothing to Hamilton

    9) The cameras didn’t show all that has happened.

    10) At the insistence of Ferrari by research, Charli expected just in time to punish Hamilton without the penalty had consequences in positions loss for Hamilton.

    11) Ferrari knows all the drivers time on their way back to the safety car, again denouncing what happened to Charlie.

    12) Charlie postpone the investigation to finish the race.

    13) In an atonish form FIA decides penalized 5 seconds with just a breach of eight deserving drivers drive through penalty.

    14) What was the Hamilton and Vettel speed in front of the safety car before they enterd in the pit lane???

    FORZA ALO

  130. One thing I think many of us missed is that did the safety car travel at a constant speed? By look at the clip again, it looks to me that the Safety Car accelerated all of a sudden. If it didnt, Hamilton would of gone pass it before the safety car line 2. It sounds funny to say that a safety car out accelerate an F1 car! But it did!

  131. The problem in Valencia was not Hamilton.
    The main problem with SC was that race director not ordered that cars behind SC should pass.

    40.8 When ordered to do so by the clerk of the course the observer in the car will use a green light to signal to
    any cars between it and the race leader that they should pass. These cars will continue at reduced speed
    and without overtaking until they reach the line of cars behind the safety car.

    If Charlie would have allowed that, both Ferraris would have maintained their positions or would have been able to overtake Hamilton in pit lane:
    Hamilton must change his nose cone, and lost a lot of time in pits.
    Hamilton made a small mistake, but it was Charlie’s decision was that changed the race

    Google translate.

  132. Hamilton did it blatantly to screw Alonso, simple as that. He was his nearest rival and was going to lose out to him. As I watched the race, I see Hamilton coming into the pits, Vettel having already left and Alonso is nowhere to be found, WHAT !?!? A replay shows what happened. Hamilton could have easily blown by the safety car but didn’t and heres why. He made contact in the opening laps that damaged his front wing, he wanted it changed, we heard this over team radio but we don’t hear anything further. They (McLaren) “were looking into it.” How does the team change the front wing w/o being overtaken by Alonso ? Trap him behind the safety car. We didn’t hear any further team radio so we can’t be for sure if the team thought it up or Hamilton did but it was clearly deliberate despite Hamilton’s so-called claims of “blinking lights” confusing him post-race. Alonso was not going to let go of Hamilton’s tail but Hammy slowed him so to the let the SC get between them. As we all saw, he did it to the point where he violated the rules. How the incident was not further investigated I’m not sure. I was surprised that Alonso blamed the stewards and not Hamilton. Alonso had every right to be peeved especially after a “penalty” had no effect. This same thing got Hamilton blackflagged in GP2. He broke a big rule and while “punished” was not in reality this time. Then in the next race, utter irony for Alonso as he is the one punished w/severe consequences. I rank Lewis’ & McLaren’s actions at Valencia ’10 up there with the worst and can’t believe it wasn’t further looked at. Everyones’ attentions were focused on the guy who got the wrong end of the stick. Truly odd… Lewis do something shady ? Impossible!

    To conclude, this is all the fault of the stupid safety car. The stupid deployment and the stupid rules. I think the SC is unnecessary 99.9% of the time. Off the top of my head, Singapore ’08, Valencia ’10 and in the final 3 races of ’10, the SC disrupting the race order. That is seriously wrong. Teams will always use the SC to their advantage as they do everything else. But a SC that comes out due to an accident should NOT result in a lottery effect and teams gaining or losing position. It should simply pause the race and we resume as it was before. Close the pits or make everyone resume their original grid position at the restart.

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