Ferrari fined, World Motor Sport Council to examine Alonso’s pass on Massa

Ferrari have been fined $100,000 for breaking the Sporting Regulations during the German Grand Prix.

The stewards of the race have also referred the matter to the World Motor Sports Council. The result of the race stands for the time being.

Fernando Alonso passed Felipe Massa to win the German Grand Prix after the team had been heard instructing Massa that he was slower than his team mate.

Massa admitted after the race he let Alonso past but said he did so of his own choosing.

The stewards found Ferrari guilty of breaking article 39.1 of the Sporting Regulations which forbid team orders that influence the outcome of the race.

They additionally adjudged it to be a transgression of article 151c of the International Sporting Code, relating to bringing the sport into disrepute, the same section that McLaren were famously found in violation of in 2007.

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362 comments on Ferrari fined, World Motor Sport Council to examine Alonso’s pass on Massa

  1. AuroraRain said on 25th July 2010, 17:44

    Whereever Alonso goes…fines follow!

  2. rod said on 25th July 2010, 17:45

    They can send McLaren with them. Turkey 2010 were also clear teamorders.

    • edugg said on 25th July 2010, 17:50

      are you joking??

    • CapeFear said on 25th July 2010, 17:53

      How was it? Both drivers where in fuel saving mode, would button of overtaken Hamilton? no. because both drivers had to hit 1:30, so if they hit that then no, button wouldn’t of overtook simple.

      But Hamilton posted a 1:33 the lap Button got close to him out of turn 8, it was driver error. So the move was done and Hamilton felt he had been betrayed. they even said it was wrong the way phil said he wouldn’t overtake, but I think if you look at the proper context which he thought if 1:30 time was hit then it wouldn’t happen.

      Of course that wouldn’t stop Button if he saw a chance to overtake though from a mistake.

      Team orders have been around remember last year in Germany when Rubens was told by Ross, “Rubens your pace is too slow, if you can’t pick it up you will need to let Jenson have a go”. That radio message is still up on for now.

      • Stathis said on 25th July 2010, 19:37

        Yes, you are right — but Massa was not as slower as Barrichelo was in regards to his team-mate. In case of Brawn it was not a team order rather than an urge for Rubens to speed-up or else Button would catch him. Today Massa could easily defend his position and finish the race first. But it wasn’t meant to be, although if Stefano Domenicali went on the radio and said, “Felipe you are slower and Vettel is catching us, if you can’t go faster let Fernando have a go” things would be different — and I don’t believe Massa would hit Alonso if he tried to pass as many Ferrari fans say.

  3. Gentleman Alonso lol said on 25th July 2010, 17:47

    My old dad has always said F1 was a corrupt sport. I used to laugh it off, but now I think Fergal Sharkey was right.

  4. Marcello said on 25th July 2010, 17:48

    Message to Rob Smedley (or whoever choose those words): next time can u use a more discreet way of passing on team orders?!?! PS and dont say SORRY!!!!! tut

    • IDR said on 25th July 2010, 18:14

      I think Rob Smedley chose very carefully those words, to be sure everybody could know what was Ferrari doing.

      Maybe I’m wrong but I’m afraid Rob has a dark future now in Ferrari.

      By the way, I don’t approve Ferrari action. I think they ruined an excellent weekend for them, for Massa and for Alonso.

      • David BR said on 25th July 2010, 18:29

        I agree IDR, Smedley was basically rebelling against his friend, Massa, being dumped into this position by the Alonso/Ferrari combo. It was a stupid decision all round, ruining a fantastic result for Ferrari. And Alonso could have accepted losing a few extra points, it’s not that critical – particularly compared to the damage this will do him and Ferrari.

    • disjunto said on 25th July 2010, 18:19

      Smedly and Massa seemed to deliberately get this done in the most obvious way, just so we all know what’s going on

  5. Ben Curly said on 25th July 2010, 17:49

    “… the team had been heard instructing Massa that he was slower than his team mate”.

    I didn’t know you can be “instructed” that you are slower. You can be informed about that, but instructed? I don’t know, it doesn’t sound right.

  6. Chris said on 25th July 2010, 17:50

    Now we’ll see if FIA still stands for Ferrari International Aid or not. Given that they have been found to be in breach of two seperate clauses in the regulations, something more than a fine must be enforced.

    For my part, the perfect penalty would be if Ferrari got no constructor’s points for the race and for Massa and Alonso to swap places to where they were before the on-track swap. It is is clearly the team that is at fault here. Sure, Alonso was heard on the radio complaining about Massa supposedly holding him up, but in actually passing him, he did no wrong. If the instruction came about as a result of him throwing his toys out of the pram, then perhaps a grid penalty of 5 or so places at the next race. However, if, as I read on the BBC website, the next meeting of the WMSC isn’t until September, I don’t see that happening.

    It’s worth noting that the last time a team was deemed to be in breach on article 151c of the sporting regulations, the FIA threw the book, the bookshelf and the library at them…

    • KNF said on 25th July 2010, 18:04

      And that team was a British team, so claims of nationalistic bias has this non-Italian, non-Spanish, non-French, non-Briton scratching his head…

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th July 2010, 22:43

      Close but not really. Actually i think the last team were RenaultF1 and they got of pretty lightly.
      But the rest of your post makes perfect sense.
      I do think the Stewards did throw in the 151c with this in mind (Mclarens fine), just to saveguard that Ferrari will be punished for something.

  7. Marcello said on 25th July 2010, 17:50

    Mclaren Turkey 2010 —- Button / Hamilton—-clear team orders….

    • Jack Holt said on 25th July 2010, 17:54

      Two overtakes and contact equals team orders? It looked pretty disorderly to me.

    • Robbie said on 25th July 2010, 17:55

      No, that’s not clear team orders at all.

      McLaren allowed their two drivers to fight for first place there and secondly, it was the opinion of Lewis’ engineer that Jenson wouldn’t overtake, a one off remark made at the spur of the moment as the engineer was looking at the data.

      It’s not the same as today’s race, not at all.

    • Tiomkin said on 25th July 2010, 21:26

      Look at it this way to smooth out the logic.
      I’m in the pub and see someone punch someone in the face and run off. He gets away with it. The following night I punch someone in the face and run off, but i get caught and punished. In my defense I say such and such did the same thing last night so I’m innocent.

      It makes no sense. Ferrari went against the rules and ruined what would have be a good scrap. Because you think someone else did the same thing is no defense. I hope they lose the points too.

  8. magnafw07 said on 25th July 2010, 17:50

    I think the WMC has to take this a lot further, otherwise their rules are not worth the paper they are written on.

    Red Bull has lost a lot of points this year allowing their racers to race. They did this (at least in part) because the rules specifically prohibit team orders.

    How much spice has that crash in Turkey added to this years championship? F1 (an otherwise fringe sport in Australia for 51 weeks of the year) has regularly and prominently been featured in the Australian press because of Red Bulls courage in allowing its two racers to go hard at each other.

    The rules are the rules and Ferrari should be stripped of all drivers and constructors championship points.

    Anything less makes F1 look like a farce.

  9. Marcello said on 25th July 2010, 17:53

    Alonso did nothing wrong at all. Nor Massa. Team made a big faff of it…should take the fine and all the bad press. thats all

  10. Steven said on 25th July 2010, 17:53

    I’m guessing Eddy Jordan was part of the team who decided (after listening to their opinions – because there is no hard proof) they had broken the “disrepute” rule.

  11. addster f1 said on 25th July 2010, 17:54

    This is a joke. They lyed to the media, fans and the stewards by stating no team orders were given. FIA said they were and they are now fined. One thing though Austraila 2009 Hamilton got DQ for lying to the race stewards so ferrari should get DQ as well. The FIA is all over the place.
    Mclaren lye = DQ
    Ferrari lye = result stands

    • SPIDERman said on 25th July 2010, 18:22

      it it is my strong belief that FERRARI team boss Dominicali has influenced MASSA to say he allowed ALONZO to pass on order to escape team orders repurcussions
      DID ANYONE notice the way Dominicalli rushed to the stage after the drivers had posed for pictures…then he pretended to take both drivers Alonzo and MASSA BACK TO THE pondium to take another photo with him in the middle?..a replay of this scene may show that it was here that somewhere along this movement Massa was told to be the fall guy AND SAY THAT he was loosing speed which is not the case as the viewers so it live on TV…this is just my suspician…

  12. bosyber said on 25th July 2010, 17:58

    So, if Ferrari are still telling their story the way we heard it, I guess this is also “misleading the stewards”. Last time someone did that, they were disqualified, weren’t they? So if that is a precedent, both Ferrari’s should be disqualified, just like Hamilton was after Australia 2009.

    I happen to think that was again a case of Mosley led FIA still having a grudge against McLaren, and letting things get out of hand and dishing out overly harsh punishments, so I would prefer this not to be used as a precedent, but it shows that the team should get a strong penalty. Maybe WCC points taken away?

  13. davidlee said on 25th July 2010, 17:58

    If as David Coulthard and others insist, team orders cannot be stopped, then the rule should now be removed and replaced with one saying that it must be completely open. That way everyone will know when there are team orders, and we can judge the results ourselves on that basis…

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th July 2010, 22:48

      Fully agree with you there. Let the team announce it before the race.
      It will be fair to the fans who can freely choose to support such a team or not.
      Still i think there should be a limit as to what is allowed.

  14. Marcello said on 25th July 2010, 17:59

    Schumi held an interview post race and was talking first hand (2002, him+Barrichello). He was just saying how Stefano Domenicali (Ferrari team principal) would have regretted NOT making the call if, in 9 races time, Ferrari were to loose the drivers championship, the constructors championship, or even both, as a result of the points he would have lost today by NOT making the call. I didnt like Schumi in yrs gone by, but after proving to be the most successfull in history i learned to respect him. Its a gr8 point he makes (and btw he must know what hes on about)..

    • hawkfist said on 25th July 2010, 18:15

      How many constructor points did they gain out of what they did? 0 because it was a 1-2 either way. And if it was so hard to overtake on that circuit as Alonso claimed afterwards why was he worried that Vettel might overtake him?

      • Stathis said on 25th July 2010, 19:45

        I agree with Schumi’s remarks.. but they should do it correctly. Turning the revs of Massa’s engine or telling him to save more fuel. Then they would explain that Alonso saved fuel as it seemed so after his first attempt to pass him. They way they did it, with Rob saying sorry, Alonso saying that he does not know what happened etc, that was what brought the sport into disrepute. Just like the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix.

        • BasCB (@bascb) said on 25th July 2010, 22:49

          I am glad they did not fool anyone.
          I detest having to guess and argue about weather “safe fuel” actually ment, slow down and let your teammate pass you/dont pass your teammate or something similar.

  15. Ben Curly said on 25th July 2010, 18:03

    I’m thinking to myself how would we react, if the same message was framed differently: “Alonso is faster than you lad, and Vettel is lapping really fast now. That’s the situation on track. Our race might be in danger, or we might be fine, so it’s your call, boy”. Now all is in the open, and Felipe makes his decision.

    I think it would be much cleaner, and better than: “Can you confirm you understood that message”.

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