Massa: “I am not a number two”

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Felipe Massa denied he is now playing a ‘number two’ role to Fernando Alonso at Ferrari having given up a win for his team mate in the German Grand Prix.

Speaking in a press conference at the Hungaroring Massa added that he would not hand over a win to Alonso if he is in the same situation again this weekend.

Here’s part of what Massa was asked during the press conference:

Q: (Livio Oricchio ?ǣ O Estado de Sao Paulo) Felipe, after the last race, I asked you if you were not worried about your image in Brazil, and you said ??absolutely no.? And after almost a week, we realise what happened there. What?s your comment? People say that you betrayed the country.
FM: For sure not. I will always do everything I can for my country. For me my country is the most important thing. For sure, I have already proved many times in my life many things I did in my life, in my career, what I?m able to do for my country, and as I said, definitely whoever is thinking like that is completely wrong. I?m doing everything I can, I will always do everything I can for my country, which is the most important thing for me, because it?s my home.

Q: (Ian Parkes ?ǣ The Press Association) Felipe, welcome back here first of all. In the post-race press conference in Germany, obviously neither yourself nor Fernando (Alonso) would concede that team orders had taken place. Obviously what followed was that the FIA found Ferrari guilty and fined them, and the matter is now going before the World Motorsport Council. On that basis, can we get your reaction to the fact that the FIA found Ferrari guilty? And also you said that you were looking forward to fighting for victory here. If a similar situation to what happened in Germany was to arise here, would you be allowed to fight for victory?
FM: As I said, there?s no real point in going back to last weekend. We need to think about the present. I think we have spoken a lot about what?s happened in the last race. So yes, I will fight for victory here in whatever conditions.

Q: (Arianna Ravelli ?ǣ Corriere della Sera) So if you are in the same situation this weekend, you will react in the same way or not?
FM: I will win.

Q: (Anne Giuntini ?ǣ L?Equipe) Felipe, we understood that when you say that you are working for the team, at least when you said it last week, working for the team now risks to be working for your team-mate.
FM: For sure not. I?m working for the team and we know how important it is to work for the team.

Q: (Giuntini) But if your team-mate has to fight to be World Champion, it?s mainly himself??
FM: Well, I think you remember very well what has happened in the past, no? In 2007. You remember very well what?s happened in 2008, no? So I don?t think you really have to go through all the points. For sure, if the team really has the chance to win the championship I want the best for the team.

Q: (Sarah Holt ?ǣ BBC Sport) Felipe, have you had assurances from the team that you will be able to be allowed to continue fighting for victory? Have you spoken to them about that? It hasn?t affected your motivation?
FM: Sure, for sure I?ve spoken to everybody inside the team. As I said, I?m not here really just to race, I?m here to win. That?s really my point. As long as I am in the condition to win, we need to go to the end, to fight for victory. As long as the condition is different then I definitely want the best for the team. I work for the team, I?m professional and I think everybody needs to understand my point.

The other drivers present were also asked about Massa’s situation.

Rubens Barrichello, who famously handed over a win to Michael Schumacher in the 2002 Austrian Grand Prix while driving for Ferrari, was first to reply:

Q: (Holly Samos ?ǣ BBC Radio Five Live) This is a question for Rubens, Felipe, whoever else might want to answer: should the team order rule be scrapped? What?s your view?
RB: It?s not up to us to decide. Whenever they said team orders should not take place, other ways of telling the driver to back off were introduced. So in that respect, you should think, ??OK, so this should not take place? and then the team should decide to do whatever.

I just think that we should do something to stop this thing, because at the end of the day, it could get into a bit of drama here. When you are racing, you want to beat the other one, but I wouldn?t feel nice, I wouldn?t feel good if you tell me ??I?ll give you this which makes you faster than the other one? and then you win. I don?t like that, I never did and that?s why I had to make changes in my life and that?s why I changed teams and that?s why I moved on.

So I think it?s in the hands of the top people to change that because you should be allowed to race. What?s the problem? If you don?t win the championship by one point, so be it. You had your chance, you had to go, and then you win the championship by one point because somebody let you win? What?s the point? That?s my view.

If I have to be a bad guy to be World Champion, I don?t care for that. I will teach my boys the same way my father taught me and I?m happy with that.

Heikki Kovalainen: I don?t really want to get into this debate too much. I?m just here to race.

Robert Kubica: It?s not so simple, I think. We are all working for our teams. I think the most important??unless you like it or you don?t like it is the team. If there?s a chance or an opportunity to help the team to score better results or whatever in the final standings, it?s normal that you are asked to do it. It?s normal that you will do it, and that?s very simple. I know it?s not always easy to let your team mate by but sometimes it?s important for the team, and that?s how it was working, that?s how it will work for many years, so unless we say it?s not allowed to overtake your team-mate, because I think this is the only rule to stop it, but you cannot put it. It was like this ten years ago, it will be like this in the next ten years.

Heikki Kovalainen was later asked again about team orders but refused to comment on it.

Read the full press conference here

2010 Hungarian Grand Prix

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139 comments on “Massa: “I am not a number two””

  1. I felt sorry for Felipe having to give up on that victory last week. Nonetheless, his number 2 status is a result of his lack of consistency, and speed, compared to Fernando. As much as he doesn’t believe he is a number 2 driver, his results speak otherwise.

    1. Gentleman Alonso lol
      29th July 2010, 23:36

      Dont worry Felippe, pretty much everyone thinks Alonso is a number two.

      1. … except for Ferrari…

    2. for some reason ferrari gave him a 2 year deal after so many dreadfull races or maybe ferrari were very kind and signed a contract with someone who didnt had th pace to be on any team but hrt please forgive but after his crash and all races this season im surprised he is still at ferrari i dont like brasilian drivers but massa is a nice one for me but on the performance side maybe ferrari just wanted someone that scored

      1. @Spectator,

        What on earth is wrong with all Brazilian drivers?

  2. Fore sure you’re a number 2 Felipe, for sure…

    1. Exactly. Don’t kid yourself Felipe. Anyone who has to pull over for their team mate with 8 races to go when they can still have a good chance at the title is number two.

      1. for sure indeed ;) that is for sure!

        1. For sure, I think Massa did a personal best with his ‘for sure’ count in that conference. For sure, he is so far ahead that I can’t see anyone being in a position to catch him, unless Ferrari orders him to let Alonso past. For sure :D

      2. Rubens used to call himself a “No. 1b” driver until 2005, guess he got tired of fooling himself and everyone…

        Puts his criticism of his team last year in perspective when he suspected something was up…

    2. flossyblossy
      30th July 2010, 10:43

      Haha….that ‘for sure’ malarky drives me around the bend.
      It makes me laugh that new drivers never say it but once they’ve been around for a season or so, they start saying it too!

  3. I actually think with all these denails his new favourite phrase is “for sure not”.

    This is a difficult situation. I don’t like the stick Felipe is meant to be getting. He’s been called a coward which after everything he’s been through is a bit of stretch. He may say he’s not a number 2 but he has to really show it as the result at Germany says otherwise.

    1. ‘for sure not’ is just about the only phrase worse than ‘for sure.’

      1. Are you english? I´m not, but have always felt the expression was kinda wrong. But I´ve heard the “for sure” come from Hamilton and Button, so it must be alright, right? And that “for sure not” sound even worse!!!

        1. spanky the wonder monkey
          30th July 2010, 9:27

          for sure, the first time i remember noticing the ‘for sure’ epidemic was way back in the group b rallying days in the 80’s when markku alen (and most other scandinavians) seemed to say it in every sentence. no doubt (see, i resisted the urge to put in another lets-labour-the-point ‘for sure’?) it was around before then, but it hadn’t hit my radar until allen, vatanen etc repeated it in interviews.

          1. It mustn’t be good to see how everyone uses your language so badly, starting with my :D

    2. The only sufficient answer should be dominating the pace all weekend and leading Fernando home to a 1-2.

      If he’s not up to speed, then he might not feel a nr.2 but he is by being the slower one.

      1. he’s got the chance to be number one this week end. But to do that, he needs to outqualify and outrace alonso. Can he do that? we’ll see soon enough.

        1. @KOWALSKY,

          Well he has a chance of out qualifying Alonso but Ferrari have shown that he will not be allowed to outrace him. He was after all out racing him last weekend.

  4. I hope he holds to what he says. I so badly wanted him to defy the team orders in Germany.

    1. Me too. The poor guy’s kidding himself if he thinks Ferrari will let him win any races this year, I guess he now regrets obeying the order. I wonder how many races they’ll give him in 2011 before relegating him to a supporting role?

      1. Depends on when Rossi signs a contract …

        1. … for sure ;-)

        2. I reckon now they’ve found Barrichello Mk. II Massa’s got a job for life, if he can stomach it. Alonso’s never happy unless he’s the complete focus of the team.

  5. On a ligher note is that the most times in a single interview Massa has ever started a sentence with “for sure”? It must be some kind of record, if the For Sure world championship is still running he’ll have shot to the top of it.

    1. For sure, I can’t speak Portuguese so I’m not going to criticise, for sure.

      1. “For sure” is a literal translation for a very common expression in Portuguese “com certeza” which means definitely so is understandable that a native portuguese speaker not so fluent in English uses so much that expression.

        1. Ah, that’s actually quite a helpful tidbit. Thanks, Andre :)

        2. Nice one André. Doesn’t excuse the native English-speakers, mind!

        3. Does Bruno and di Grassi use the same expression too?

        4. Cheers Andre, for sure we can all pretend I am Portuguese now so for sure I will get away with it. for sure. :/

    2. lol, I know. Its just its taken off with the English drivers as well now and seems to have become an F1 phrase, I wasn’t criticising his English

      1. sulzerpower
        29th July 2010, 19:44

        I seem to remember Jaques Villeneuve using ‘for sure’ a lot in 96/97 and it caught on with most of the other drivers soon after. It bugged me! I don’t recall much use of it before 96. Anyone else remember any earlier instances? lol.

        1. Rubbish Dave
          29th July 2010, 22:13

          I believe it was Fittipaldi who started the ‘For Sure’ trend.

          1. Does it matter. ?

      2. Gentleman Alonso lol
        29th July 2010, 23:37

        Button seems to be the worst, for sure.

    3. For sure I find it kind of endearing.

      1. it’s probably the most used words in the f1 paddock..for sure

  6. The Dutch Bear
    29th July 2010, 18:49

    Well, Felipe, I’m afraid you are a number two. Ferrari has chosen for Fernando and he will make sure it stays that way.

  7. RB:
    If I have to be a bad guy to be World Champion, I don’t care for that. I will teach my boys the same way my father taught me and I’m happy with that.

    Quality quote from Rubens !

    Coulthard said a similar thing earlier this year and I would have to agree with them both, although they may have had a slightly better chance of becoming Champion than me.

    I’m still gutted for Felipe and only hope that the reaction to last weekend will make the team realise that they’re not going to get away with this sort of thing any longer. I’d also like to see him beat Alonso for the rest of the season.

    1. That is probably the main reason why those that want to get rid of rule 39.1 don’t convince me much.

      Its existence acts to offer some protection to drivers that, who through no fault, suddenly find themselves under intense and clearly unjust pressure from team management and owners to sacrifice a race victory.

      With ‘no race-fixes allowed’ they at least have some meagre comeback to pitwall radio demands/threats and invidious contract terms. It gives them a legitimate out if they ever get ‘the call’.

      The teams already have way too many cards at their disposal in dealing with drivers, I think the individual, and the notion of fairplay, needs any little extra help we can somehow engineer into the rulebook.

      1. Well, I’m not totally convinced by Rule 39.1, but I do see your point.

        1. Rule 39.1 is horrible, And it shouldn’t exist.

          But it absolutely has to, While there are unscrupulous people in Formula one who would take away from the racing, the sport and the competition for petty gain, it has to exist.

      2. “who through no fault, suddenly find themselves under intense and clearly unjust pressure”

        except that they are realistically out of championship contention, and slower that their teammate who is in contention.

        1. @F1YANKEE

          Massa was and still is not out of world championship contention. In fact he was much closer to Alonso than Alonso was to Hamliton so are Ferrari saying that Alonso has no chance of winning either? If it was impossible for massa to win then it is a little more understandable (However can you ever imagine an athlete slowing down to let a team mate win?) I hate seeing it especially when it is so blatant and especially when the driver in question clearly is not happy about it.

    2. theRoswellite
      30th July 2010, 4:57

      Felipe needs no one to defend him, I would however submit that his English is without doubt superior to all our Portuguese and that’s for……

      Also. his denial of the number two status within the team soundes as if he is referencing a very specific relationship, perhaps contractual in nature. It doesn’t sound to me like he is making a speed comparison with his teammate.

      Anyone who can question Felipe’s spirit, courage or determination should take a closer look at his record in F1.

      Ferrari seems to have a special penchant for creating havoc where there was none, and this is another instance of not only making a wrong decision, but making it in the wrong way.

    3. See Massa will not beat Alonso for the rest of the season. If you’ve consistently been slower that your team mater for the best part of a second all season long, hard to imagine how Massa can beat Alonso.

      Alonso is a class above Massa, and everyone knows that. Its just that people hate Alonso because he is the evil scheming genius behind all the cock ups his team have done to benefit him.

      If you think about it, Massa should have the clout in Ferrari, since he’s been there for dog ages now. So why does it appear that Alonso has Ferrari around his finger? Because Ferrari realize that their best chance of winning the WDC lies with him.

      I havent seen any preferential treatment for Alonso until last weekend, he was just genuinely quicker all the time. Im a fan of Alonso, and I was upset that he won the way he did, he should have passed him fair and square, but who are we to say that it was Alonso who influenced Massa to let him pass?

      It was a Team Order..get it? TEAM ORDER. The team obviously didn’t want a Red Bull situation whereby both drivers take themselves out.

      I wonder if everyone would have just been happy if Ferrari told their drivers, “Save Fuel”, “Hold Position”, “Save Tyres”, “Save Engine”..blah blah. and just brough the cars home in 1-2 they way they stood.

      Now that would have been quality racing wouldn’t it? Just like how Mclaren brought home two 1-2s. I was on the edge of my seat because it was brilliant!

      Martin Brundle’s question has not been asnwered..”What would you have done if you were Ferrari Management?”…my answer – I would have done the same, but I would have managed it a lot better.

      In my view, Team Management will have very similar elements of Corporate Operations Management…if you dont understand that..I dont expect anybody to understand Ferrari’s deceision. No sentiments people, this is a professional sport, emotions count for nothing!

      1. couldn’t agree more.

      2. See Massa will not beat Alonso for the rest of the season. If you’ve consistently been slower that your team mater for the best part of a second all season long, hard to imagine how Massa can beat Alonso.

        Remind me, which driver had to be given the win last weekend ?

        I wanted the drivers to race each other till the end, had Alonso beaten Felipe on his own then I would have been happy for him and the team.

        I dont expect anybody to understand Ferrari’s deceision. No sentiments people, this is a professional sport, emotions count for nothing!

        Wouldn’t adhering to the rules count as being the professional thing to do ?

        I want Ferrari to win but I want them to do it fairly and within the rules of the sport.

      3. Yes, if I had been Ferrari management I would have done it, BUT:
        I’d have let Alonso race for it first, at least get closer – THAT would be the point where you have to be able to count on your drivers’ good sense (as McLaren WAS able to do) – and after all, you may say “don’t do anything stupid” on the radio, may you not? After the fact I would have told Smedley that any more passive-aggressive crap means no job –

  8. Great comment by Kubica.

  9. It would be good for the “old Fernando” to win a race from the greatness of his driving rather than this new one nagging the team with his tantrums.
    If we could only see that star that won two championships he would win back so much lost respect.

  10. Yeah yeah. Please, Felipe, convince me. You know what to do?

    1. “Please confirm that you understand that message…”

  11. also kubica got his win only because Nick let him through. Nick was on a one stop and had he not let him through Nick would of won and Kubica would of finished out of top 3.

    just another example. of it happening.

    as well as every team stopping their drivers racing late in the race. despite in todays rules drivers like button will be quick late in the race for their skills of saving fuel. they are told to ‘bring it home’ for me that is just as bad. Time and time again button has been the quicker mclaren late on. but does he challenge lewis. no. he did once and was quickly told to back off. He had saved more fuel through driving smoother so had the right to use that fuel. but was told not to. thats just as unfair.

  12. In the event of the happenings at Ferrari, we totally forgot that Petrov’s race Engineer was threatening to switch off his car (literally) if he did not put up the laptimes he requested of him or something of that sort. I cant remember the exact statement but it was scary to me :-(

    1. Eh, no.

      They were telling him to shift earlier into 7th gear.

      If he couldn’t do that, they would tell him to change to a more conservative engine map.

      There is no pit-to-car control, and hasn’t been for years. They were telling him how to get the car home in one piece, not threatening to switch it off.

  13. I can’t feel sorry for Felipe because he is accountable for his own state of mind. He has to live with the decisions that he makes. He can defend his position by saying he is a ‘professional’ and the team comes first. He can deny that he is not the (2) driver in spite of what everyone has seen this year. But Felipe beinging mistreated is not the issue.
    The real issue is, so many in formula one think that it’s ok for these kinds of team orders; that the team not only come before the driver but the outcome of the
    race itself. And when a large majority of the fans complain they are told to get over it, get use to it or go find another sport. Unfortunately, on 10 September the WMSC will confirm this attitude with a minimal punishment to Ferrari for it’s behavior at the race. If that happens I will no longer watch formula 1 because it will no longer be a sport to me.

    1. Well said. I agree absolutely. The heart of F1 – Coulthard, Brundle, Schumacher, Ferrari management, and doubtless many others, regard this rule as an unworkable joke, and I say that if the will were there – and I don’t think it ever will be under the aging, benevolent, Old Boy eye of “Charlie” – then it could be made to work, to the benefit of all fans.

      In 2002 the FIA decided that team orders are not desirable and implemented the present rule. Nothing has changed since then to make such a rule redundant. The paying public still need protecting from race fixing. We still need to feel that we are watching a fair race. In this particular case the stewards decided that the statements from Alonso, Domenicali, Massa, et all, were lies. Maybe that approach should be used more frequently, on the more subtle messages used by other teams. Low fuel. Mechanical problems. All these excuses could be investigated by the FIA if necessary, with the amount of telemetry on the cars. A few disqualifications, a few multi-million dollar fines, and the teams would eventually realise that the rule is there to be observed, at your peril!

  14. Robert McKay
    29th July 2010, 20:43

    I read the headline and thought of The Prisoner, initially.

    1. Paper Tiger
      29th July 2010, 21:49

      “I am not a number two, I am a free man!”

      1. Lol, Do you think Ferrari have a giant white balloon to send out on anyone not towing the party line. Or like Eddie Irvine they just turn up with three wheels for the pit stop.

  15. Has anybody thought about if they just ran one driver teams, similar to superleague formula? This would mean that the team can design a car specifically to the one driver’s needs, and would eliminate the need for team orders.
    Obviously the downside would be getting 20-odd teams into the sport, but it could enhance the competition as it would be every man for himself. That said, it would stop team mate rivalries, which have been some of the most interesting battles of the sport’s history, and could increase possibility of a single driver running away with the championship a la schumacher.
    Still, worth a thought!

    1. Well, I love the situation as it is. I love the off-track drama, team-mate rivalery etc. I mean, it’s races like the German GP and Turkish GP that makes up very much of the F1-show. Let’s face it, we all love it, just look at the quantity of comments the blog gets in after races like that!

      1. I know, i love it too, I was merely suggesting that as a solution to team orders.
        I didn’t think for one second whether it would actually work or whether I or anyone else would like it. As i said in my first post, team mate rivalries have provided us with some of the most dramatic and exciting moments the sport has ever seen: Senna vs Prost, Hamilton vs Alonso, Webber vs Vettel etc. I didn’t mean ‘lets get rid of it the way it is’, it was merely a suggestion. :)

    2. Personally I would like 20 teams, but, all having two drivers each. I’d like to see a return of pre qualifying, then we can do away with all this “FIA picks the new team rubbish”, because clearly, it isn’t a good system.

      There are groups who are convinced they can build an F1 car, if they can, and it’s safe, why not give them the chance to race it?

  16. Massa is just such an incredibly poor speaker.

    He’s almost like a politician in that he can ramble for 5 minutes without actually saying something. “For sure I do everything for my country” … rinse and repeat 30 times … “because it’s my home”

    I wonder if he actually believes that he will be allowed to win again though. I’m afraid he does and that just makes me sad.

    1. Robert McKay
      29th July 2010, 22:00

      In a similar vein I dread press conferences when Vettel wins because he just will not stop talking and his sentences goes on and on and on forever and you’re just starting to wonder if he’s flagging and going to take a breath but no he’s still going and this sentence has become so long he’s forgotten what the initial question is but he just keeps ploughing on regardless…

      Then he finally stops speaking, the second question comes and it all begins again :-D

      1. I know what you mean Robert. When Seb, Mas and Alo were interviewed after the race I think Seb had one question and he must have spoken for longer than the other two combined.

        1. Maybe Webber should be in all press conferences? If the others are waffling on too long or seeking to go purple on the ‘for sure’ tally, he can just chime in with “Look, just shut the *&#@ up, mate !”

        2. For sure, Mika had the best answers in post-race interviews…

  17. It seems Heikki will have a lot to tell, if once he feels like it. He already hinted at that when it was clear he was not there to stay last year.
    And Withmarsh has said he felt bad at having to give Lewis better treatment (new parts) at times last year.

    Still i think its OK he does not (yet) want to discuss it in the open.

    1. sulzerpower
      29th July 2010, 21:06

      Which was the race that was mentioned that Heikki let Lewis by? To be fair, Lewis must have been catching him, unless of course that was what we were supposed to believe!
      I can’t think of other occasions when he was hard done by, perhaps it was deaper seated than that, such as parts as you say. It was good that Heikki got the opportunity to win the one race, every obvious number two deserves at least one race win – so it was a shame that Salo gave up his to Irvine in 99.

      Any other number 2s that gave up their only hope of a win for the obvious number 1?

  18. Massa “I will win”

    Puppeteer: “No you wont, you will pull over.” ;-)

    Actually, I think there is only a slim chance of being in the situation again, I don’t think the team will allow it.

    I liked Barrichellos comments, and in that vain most sports people would consider it a hollow championship if they were handed the points that made a difference although I feel Alonso claim it as his god earned right

    1. It happened quite often already didn’t it?

      1. And I think it’ll continue to happen. Actually a bizarre situation. Ferrari obviously want Massa to perform well, alongside Alonso, protecting him and taking points off the other teams and drivers. But if he does end up in front of Alonso, very possible, we’ll then have the situation that everyone knows it’s team orders time, but FIA are ready to ‘fine’ Ferrari if they use them, so they’ll carry on denying – or just say, yeah, so what, fine us. Could end up farcical very quickly.

        1. theRoswellite
          30th July 2010, 5:38

          @ David JR we reached farcical this last race, don’t you think?

          1. Kind of, but I mean in terms of FIA’s control of the sport: we still had a semblance of Ferrari pretending to follow regulations. Now they’ve effectively admitted they were breaking them while arguing the rule should be ditched. With everyone bar Alonso’s mum chipping in with the same opinion, Ferrari can argue that the whole paddock, except for C Horner, agrees with them. If Ferrari do the same in this and the following races – which seems 100% likely if Massa is in front of Alonso, which will happen – FIA will look ridiculous.

  19. Massa had a great chance to win, but he wasn’t able to make the gap. Alonso deserved that victory.

    1. No such word a the ‘D’ word in sport. But then fixing the result isn’t sport either.

      Oh yes thats right, while watching a 100m sprint if the person in front isn’t half a second ahead then the person in second ‘deserves’ to win and the person in 1st should let them past. :-)

      1. In the 100m sprint each contestant gets a separate lane, they don’t have to slow down to avoid running into the back of the person in front if the runner in front becomes slower

    2. Why would a driver need to make a gap in order to be allowed to win?

    3. Doesn’t matter whether he was able to build a gap or not. Alonso was behind.

    4. flossyblossy
      30th July 2010, 11:03

      Being a good driver is about being fast but also about beng able to defend your position. It doesn’t matter whether you are faster or slower.

      If Alonso was the that good of a driver he should have been able to overtake him fair and square, and make it stick. He didn’t do that so he didn’t deserve to win.

  20. Does anyone else think that we should share with readers who don’t have English as their first language, the alternative meaning of a ‘number two’?

    1. David Smith
      29th July 2010, 21:44

      So what felipe is saying is i’m not a ***** driver…lol

    2. Please, I would love it!!!

    3. Subservient, inferior, lower-priority, lesser, first mate… Does that help…

      In this case, we could also throw in whipping boy, sucker for punishment, company man and… wait for it… an F1 driver in denial…

  21. David Smith
    29th July 2010, 21:46

    Can we all move on from hockenheim, rule 39.1, team orders, Ferrari etc etc..lets look forward to this weekend before the 3 week break..

    1. I’ve put up a load of other articles today which aren’t principally about the team orders row. But I’m obviously not going to ignore what is still the biggest story in F1 at the moment, especially when there are all sorts of unanswered questions about it.

      1. I guess this will go on till the WMSC hearing and then it will start all over again :)

        Did they set a date for the hearing already or are we still assuming it will be on the scheduled September 10th meeting (in Italy)?

    2. That’s F1 for ya :)
      I knew the moment it happened it would be a storied week in the F1 communties :)

  22. Paper Tiger
    29th July 2010, 21:52

    I think the quotation marks are in the wrong place. It should say I am “not” a number two.

  23. Every time I found somebody telling me what he is not, after few minutes of conversation I realize the person in fact is what he is denying for himself.

  24. Barrichello sounded pathetic, really. Kubica – like Webber and De la Rosa in other interviews this week – answered reasonably: stop faking that teams don’t need orders, please, and especially stop pretending that we ignore that… Curiously if team orders were permitted nobody had complained about the Germany GP having been spoiled by Ferrari, just about it having been boring (for obviously other reasons)

    1. I think the debate about it will be reopened soon. Most seems in favor of getting rid of it. I just hope Mclaren and redbull keep their racing policy

    2. How did Barrichello sound pathetic?

      And “Curiously if team orders were permitted nobody had complained about the Germany GP having been spoiled by Ferrari,”

      That’s just wrong, if you are right, why did 2002 happen I ask?

  25. You keep telling yourself that Felipe.

    It probably wasn’t that big of a deal when you first did it. The team needed Alonso to get through to be in a better position in the championship. So you indulged them. You were helping them out. It’s okay. It won’t happen again … but now Ferrari know you’re eager to please them. They’ll ask you again, and you won’t see the harm in it. You’ll keep telling yourself that you’re not a number two driver, but you’re the only driver out there who lets his team mate through without a fight. In the end, it’s not even you who is making the decision to move over.

    You can’t live in a world without it rubbing off on you.

  26. I think that spring to the head last year did more damage than we thought!! Felipe I have some bad news for you… you have been a number two for your ENTIRE career at Ferrari! Go ahead and leave I would love to see what other team would take you at this point. Quit being a crybaby and just accept it!!!!

  27. Just a little sugestion:

    Why don’t they let the team allocate the point to whoever they want only when a 1 – 2 is achieved?

    The winner would get to keep the victory, but the second one the most points.

    What do you all think?

  28. He needs to leave Ferrari now, otherwise he will be remembered the same as Rubens in his home country.

    It doesn’t matter if he can’t find a faster car, he needs to leave Ferrari.

    1. his plan is to retire at ferrari, and maybe get one of those jobs with a lot of cash, and doing not much.

  29. I think alot will depend on how Felipe feels personally about the criticism he, and Ferrari have recieved in the last five days. It struck me how resigned he was after the German Gp, as if the order to let Fernando past was not a surprise at all, but expected.
    When Hamilton was ordered in 2007 to let Fernando past during qualifying he blew his top and refused to obey orders, resulting in the now infamous pitlane incident. I find it hard to believe that Massa went into last week’s grands prix expecting to win with Alonso behind him, I think he knew deep down what was coming.
    If I am right, as ofcourse I am just assuming, then that shows the type of mentality and personality of Felipe Massa. A nice guy who is loyal to his team!

    1. Ruben was a nice guy, Felipe is a nice guy; Ferrari has used every nice guy that has ever driven for them. They have no use for a nice guy as their number one driver. Check them out all the way back to Ascari. Most of their number ones have been as ruthless as old Enzo himself. Nothings changed.

  30. Rubens has much experience with being a number #2 driver ;-)

  31. off topic: It´s a pleasure read enghlish forums. The spanish site (usually from Spain) getting me sick since Alonso signed to Ferrari. Like a “real tifosi” that i´m i use to defend some things of Alonso but after Germany he it´s only a big looser like $chumacher (Winners don´t use team orders / Every year we got a winner, but not necesary a champio (Ayrton)). Anyway, i stopped the reading of spanish site because is full of spanish-F1 rookies totally blind of Alon$o. I wish, with my painful heart that Ferrari and Alon$o with disqualified in the WMSC…. but, we know whats gonna happen… and we know that since Hungaroring Felipe´s car will be 1 or 2 seconds slower than Alon$o. Forza Ferrari…but know only with Felipe (For sure…. Don Enzo is suffering/crying into his grave)

    Pablo (From Argentina)

    1. I read both forums. This one and a spanish one, and I gotta say that both are pretty good and informative. Of course sometimes there is this kind of camouflaged bias, but not in a level that annoys me tbh.

      1. in spain not bias? i doubt it. Wich one you read. On the other hand what people think about the witch hunt on the post race conference by the english media. Somebody has to stop those guys.

  32. (John) “He needs to leave Ferrari now, otherwise he will be remembered the same as Rubens in his home country”

    Maybe he needs the money

  33. I suppose I should have expected it, but I didn’t really enjoy reading Felipe being hounded again. I mean, Byron Young’s question…there’s no confusion, he performed in the best interests of the team, and even if it’s highly distasteful, it would be hard to argue it was the wrong decision if Fernando beats a rival by a small margin for the title.
    Robert gave the best answer, and the one I’m sure both Felipe and Fernando would like to have given, although it would have most likely ended up in a harsher penalty if they had.
    I can’t see it happening again, Ferrari bought seven points for 100k and should realise that if a similar situation arose again the FIA might go so far as to suspend them instead.

    I also enjoyed Ianieri’s last question, because it brought up a situation a lot of BBC journalists happily ignore. Unsurprisingly, Heikki claimed ignorance. Don’t mistake this for a dig at Hamilton, it’s more aimed at the rather hypocritical media – after all, Hamilton won the championship by one point that year.

  34. I should also note that in that Hockenheim race, Lewis still had to pass Massa and Piquet to win, so it was still a brilliant drive (and an unusually strong one from Piquet, defending well and matching Hamilton’s pace)

    1. Curious comments from a man recently seen throwing a tantrum about the wing taken off his car in favor of his teammate even though the teammate had more points.

    2. Because this website has only one full-time member of staff!

  35. Aus 98, early hours of the morning, HAK for some reason takes a drive through the pits, leaving COU in first place, with laps to go COU lets HAK through, I cannot describe the disapointment I felt to see Him do that. Once you set yourself up as number 2 driver then the die is set. But the major thing I felt was a sense of what a waste of time, Ive stayed up all night to watch a farce, and Ive never been able to take COU as a serious racer since. As far as I understand they had a agreement who ever took the first corner first would have the chequered flag.

  36. For the remainder of this season they *only* way Felipe will get to win a race is if he has cars between him and Alonso.

    It is that simple. So he now has a target he can set himself. He must out qualify, and stay at least one car ahead of Alonso at all times.

    Expect his driving to become more erratic and for him to make more mistakes the closer Alonso is to him.

    1. With one car between him and Alonso he gets the “slow down to save fuel/engine/gearbox/whatever” message, till Alonso caught up and gets a chance to pass both in one gulp. With a bit of luck, they could then still end up with a 1-2 in the ‘natural’ order.

  37. “I’m number one and my team mate a zero, for sure”

    – Felipe

  38. The Ferrari team lied.
    They should be punished as McLaren & Hamilton were when they lied.
    Strip the team of ALL POINTS.

  39. Felipe Massa “I am not a number 2 driver”

    Yes, yes you are..

  40. Massa is not number TWO, he is number ZERO!!

  41. theRoswellite
    30th July 2010, 5:59

    Geez, I’m glad that I was never such a slacker as to end up being the number two driver at Ferrari, how can the guy even show his mug back home in B……I knew he was a dullard when he blew the world championship a couple years ago by a single point, oh, and on top of that he didn’t even have the gumption to blame Ferrari for the blown engines and refueling guffas….gee what a loser!

    1. theRoswellite
      30th July 2010, 6:28

      Oh yea, and the bum has been in F1 since 2002,and he only has 11 wins, 15 poles, 12 FL’s and 31 podiums. What in the world is he thinking of…..what a miscreant!

  42. As much as I like Fernando to win, I felt bad giving out team orders to their drivers. If its Massa’s time to shine, then let it be. Team should motivate their drivers to give out their very best – that is teamwork.

  43. The world is laughing at you felippe… you are in a bad position, but at least act clever and don’t say things like that…

  44. if you are not number two, why you didn’t win last sunday? now stop talking, and show us that you are number one, by outqualifying alonso, and getting th pole. Otherwise shut up.

  45. and here is a part what Heikki was asked during the press conference
    “Q. (Paolo Ianieri – La Gazzetta dello Sport) I have a question for Heikki: this has been a week where everybody’s been criticising Ferrari for not being very sporting with team orders, but if I’m not wrong, in 2008, in Hockenheim, you received the same message on the radio from Ron Dennis: ‘Lewis is much faster than you’ and Lewis passed you in the same turn as Felipe and he won the championship by one point. Is that true?

    HK: I don’t remember that. For me, there’s no point in going into the past, actually. I’m just here to race with Lotus and that’s all I can say. ”

    this time wasn’t a crime cuze was done from mclaren
    so was ok

  46. does this one looks like team orders? or is just my imagination
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM

    1. This has already been shown a few times.

      Everyone is attacking ferrari because they hate them. Its not fair at all. They are ALL guilty !!

      Therefore no one is guilty.

      1. wow, that’s good argument,

        I think, every one who is attacking Ferrari, doing this, because ferrari has permanent attitude to cheat and having no regrets about it at all, at any point for years,

        and so, I feel, that some maybe are tired of this situation, so it would be good for the sport and for ferrari, if they got punished harshly, finally

        and besides, that would be good for image of Mr Todt, many could sleep well, knowing that there is nothing going on behind the scene, under the green table

      2. The only way no one is guilty is there is no rule. There may be no justice but there is a rule and Ferrari broke it as did Massa. As for the McLaren 2008 overtake it is obvious that HK let Hamilton pass as to why it wasn’t address at that time, that is question that needs to be anwsered by Charlie Whiting and his crew.

  47. I think Massa has always been number 2, the funny thing is they sacrificed Kimis rep, for this clown in 2008. If they had made few Alonsos for Kimi when he still was leading after 4 first races of 08 campaign, it would have been easy WDC 08 for Kimi. They opted go with this clown, what a joke.

    Ferrari did make right choice. Massa is just not the same class as few best drivers out there.

  48. You are right Felipe, you are not number 2 you are number 3 driver, the number 2 is Emilio Botín.

  49. hes not for sure or three sure but he is two sure. one is sure of that

  50. Keep saying it, maybe one day you’ll believe it…

  51. I’m sorry but Massa proved by letting Alonso through in Germany that for the rest of this season at least he is the number two driver at Ferrari.

    He has been the in this position before at Ferrari, such as Brazil 2007 when Raikkonen won the race and so the championship, but Massa has also been the number one driver at Ferrari when Raikkonen let him through at Japan 2008.

    So although I think it is unlikely if Massa is beating Alonso next year the team will at some time choose Massa as the number one again.

    Also does anyone think that if the roles had been reversed last weekend with Alonso leading but behind in the championship that he would have let Massa through?

    I think he probably would have if it had been nearer to the end of the season and Alonso was mathematically out of the running but I doubt he would just after the halfway point in the season.

    Perhaps Massa is just too much of a nice guy for modern F1.

  52. lord sauron
    30th July 2010, 13:52

    the one in the higher ranking of the table is always the no. 1 driver. so massa dude you can count yourself out of the elite list this year. Hockenheim shall happen again and again till this season finishes.

  53. im fed up with this now. red bull do have team orders they just dont give them clearly. ferrari do, they just dont know how to do it subtley. Mclaren do and they generally get it right. the rest, the rest are just happy to get more than a point. Team orders are in and i for one dont care. Please someone explain to me why it matters to you if a team lets car 1 win or car 2 win. – unless you are a 15 yr old fanboy. show me this and i will show you someone who knows nothing about this sport. only, what upsets them goggling their tv on sunday. and who cares about them.

  54. theRoswellite
    31st July 2010, 6:37

    @ Antonyob: Let me see….

    I guess it matters to me because I would prefer F1 to be more about sport than business, more about the drivers than the teams and more about competition on the track than controversy off the track.

    Oh, I try to watch the races on Sundays, not goggle, and that’s been from about 1959…you know…Moss, Brabham, Gurney…

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