Mark Webber has re-ignited the row over favouritism at Red Bull, claiming the team would prefer Sebastian Vettel to win the championship.
His claim provoked a swift denial from team principal Christian Horner.
Webber is currently the most popular choice of driver to win the championship in a poll of over 2,800 F1 Fanatic readers.
More in today’s round-up:
Links
Vettel is number one, says Webber (BBC)
“When it was then suggested that he did not feel the team were emotionally behind him, he replied: ‘It’s obvious, isn’t it? When young new chargers come on to the block, that’s the way it is, which is absolutely fine because I’ve had a great opportunity with a great car to go and do some great things this year and I have done that. I’ve got favourites in life. That’s how it is. It’s human nature.'”
Horner denies Red Bull favours Vettel (Autosport)
“I think the members of the team would be greatly hurt to see that Mark has said that, if he has said that, and I can only think it’s been taken out of context because he has a great deal of support within the team, within Austria and with Dietrich Mateschitz, who has ultimately provided the opportunity that is there now,” said Horner when asked for his response to Webber’s suggestions.”
Vettel baffled by Webber’s comments (ITV-F1)
“I think I had lots of ups and downs this year – statistically, if something broke, then it tended to break on my car. But do I think there is any conspiracy in the air? No, it’s the last thing I think about. I always think there is a reason why things happen.”
Webber totally unimpressed by Berger’s criticism that Webber could have braked immediately after his shunt in Korea and prevented roll back. ‘Were you surprised to see this broadcast on the Red Bull TV channel?’ ‘Absolutely, mate’. Gerhard Berger is a close friend of Dietrich Mateschitz, the boss of Red Bull.
“Ferrari are pushing on with the F1 development, new F-duct and open blown diffuser make their debut in Brazil.” So much for Ferrari not bringing any upgrades for the F10!
“Renault-Lotus engine deal being announced tomorrow.” Keep your eyes peeled for that one today then.
Hulkenberg ready to wait on 2011 news (ITV-F1)
“You read Frank’s article last weekend. I called him after Korea, and with [Williams chairman] Adam Parr as well, and I must say always after the last five, six, seven races [they were] always very positive about my performance. What can I worry about if they are happy with me? I’m happy with myself and what else can I do?”
Red Bull’s $675 Million Formula One Spree Helps Top Ferrari (Bloomberg)
“Red Bull GmbH leads Formula One brands including Ferrari SpA in television exposure after spending more than $675 million in five years, research shows.”
Worries grow over future of F1 Korean Grand Prix (Korea Herald)
Jung Hwan-dae, the vice-chairman of South Jeolla provincial assembly: “Over the next week, we’re going to look through all the documents of KAVO. We’re also planning to summon officials from KAVO to investigate how the money was spent. There is something wrong here.”
Villeneuve to enter Canadian Hall of Fame (Eurosport)
“Jacques Villeneuve will officially join his legendary father Gilles in the pantheon of Canadian sporting greats when he is inducted into the nation’s Sports Hall of Fame later this month.”
De la Rosa racks up the kilometres at Le Castellet (Pirelli on Facebook)
“I’m particularly encouraged by the consistency of the times that we managed to set on both the short and the long runs, demonstrating that the tyres are quick to reach a constant level of peak performance.”
Korea race video edit (F1.com)
Not much of note apart from some different angles of the Webber/Rosberg crash.
Comment of the day
Fyujj points out an interesting story from Brazil:
Just to spice things up: here in Brazil there’s a law called "Estatuto do torcedor" (maybe "rooter’s statute") made to regulate the rights of spectators in sports events.
A notorious public defender that deals with violence between different team supporters and who is involved in the afore mentioned statute said that "in Brazil this is considered a crime (note: team orders). Not only for Felipe Massa but for any driver or team chief. If in the rest of the world this hideous practice frustrates the fans’ expectations, here in Brazil no more. One has to get out of Interlagos under arrest if this happens."
The statute forecasts arresting for anyone that frauds or contributes to fraud a sporting event.
Of course his point of view on the matter is not a unanimity among lawyers.(Article in Portuguese here)
Fyujj
From the forum
Enigma wonders what is the easiest F1 track?
Site updates
Medical driver Alan van der Merwe and former Jordan and Midland racer Tiago Monteiro are the latest additions to the F1 Twitter directory.
And the race information bar has returned to the home page with quick links to weather, track and other useful data for the Brazilian Grand Prix.
Happy birthday!
A very happy birthday to Adam Dennehey and one other regular visitor to F1 Fanatic. I’ll leave it to you to work out who…
On this day in F1
After a spate of controversial decisions in the 2008 season, not least at Spa and Fuji, the FIA promised greater openness from the stewards:
The FIA will ensure all video evidence relating to controversial moments is made available to the public via its and FOM’s websites. […]
It will also provided more detailed information as to why a particular penalty was handed out. At present the stewards issue very short statements that explain little more than what penalty has been issued.
Sure enough at the very next race – the first round of 2009 – substantial evidence was provided to show that Lewis Hamilton and McLaren were at fault.
But we’ve seen little of this improved openness from the stewards since, despite a number of controversial decisions that surely warranted it.
TommyB (@tommyb89)
5th November 2010, 0:11
Moan moan moan. Webber’s becoming the new David Coulthard when it comes to moaning. If he doesn’t want to be at Red Bull he can leave if he likes…
If he doesn’t win the title it’s his own fault.
TommyB (@tommyb89)
5th November 2010, 0:12
In other news Lewis has said he wants to win the title without Button’s help.
That’s what I’d like to hear Webber say “I’m good enough to win the title, I don’t need Vettel’s help.” Would have more respect for him if he came out and said something like that.
Andrew G
5th November 2010, 0:45
I like Hamilton, but its’s probably easier for Hamilton to say that though, as it’s less likely Button will be able to help him.
Pinball
5th November 2010, 0:59
It’s not so much about help from Vettel, but the fact you’ve got people like Gehard Berger who has very close links to Red Bull’s owner, making ridicilous claims on a TV station owned by Red Bull, in a building owned by Red Bull that Mark Webber is purposely trying to collide with opponents. The fact he did made those claims in an environment controlled by Red Bull in addition to the way Red Bull didn’t handle the Turkey incident indicates fairly clearly to me that there is very little support from the head honchos at Red Bull for Webber.
Scribe
5th November 2010, 1:10
And everyone else except Redbull, as usual, shame they turned out like everybody else when they got to the top huh?
Icthyes (@icthyes)
5th November 2010, 10:49
Glad you made that point because I’ve been saying it for the whole season. As soon as they became a top team Red Bull’s PR has been just like everyone else’s. Every weekend we get some kind of Horner moan or BS.
macahan
5th November 2010, 1:54
add into this that they took the new front wing of Webbers car at Silverstone and gave it to Vettel after Vettel broke his.
That Marko went on TV immediately after the Turkey incident putting the blame all on Webber.
In the cases Vettel messed up or screwed up there not been a word from the team or any of these individuals but kind conciliatory words. Ohh he did so good it was a shame what happened. Ohh he is so young.
Vettel been pampered and looked after all year while Webber often been left out hanging dry or even gotten pot shot at by personal that have strong ties with or within the team.
What is even more sad is every time this have happened there never been a word from Vettel. Not even I didn’t know or well maybe some of that was probably my fault or whatever. Either nothing or excuses.
But I think this interview from today seems WAY WAY out of proportion overblown by the journalists and media (no offense Keith) even here. Excerpts from the interview been provided in the different articles. It would be nice to hear the entire thing because from reading on some sites there was a lot of leading questions wanting him to basically say yeah I been treated as the number two in the team all year. But he never said so right out. Ok
Many way to interpret it. As I feel it might be is that he wasn’t expected in the hunt at the start of the year and turns out he definitely was, sooo well it became bit inconvenient because the plan might been for Vettel to be in the lead and that and Webber to fill in the seat and backup not actually even manage to outpace Vettel. So they had to actually change their plans. Convenient? Not entirely.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
5th November 2010, 2:21
totally agree with you.
it’s not “Mark Webber has reopened the controversy”… it’s “we’ve said Mark Webber there’s controversy within his team”
Mark
6th November 2010, 15:06
That was Berger’s opinion and as a driver probably a valid one. Horner strongly defended Webber. The team stood behind him so what’s your point.
Pinball
6th November 2010, 21:00
What’s my point? It’s pretty clear from above.
However to fill in between the lines; from what I can gather Berger is probably pretty friendly with both Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz (given they both half owned Toro Rosso for 3 years) and Red Bull consultant / Vettel’s pseudo manager Helmut Marko (given that Helmut Marko was Berger’s manager / mentor).
So you’ve got this guy, Berger who is good friends with the two real decision markers at Red Bull (Masteschitz and Marko), who are upset that their plan for their rising star Vettel to be the new Schumacher is being hampered by Webber (who in their minds is just meant to be the number two driver), and Horner (who refuses to use team orders) going on a Red Bull owned television station publicly claiming that Webber is a cheat. That to me thereby indicates that their is no support for Webber from the head honchos at Red Bull. This is what I believe Webber was talking about when he said their is no emotional support from Red Bull. I don’t think he was having a dig at the team members, the engineers, the mechanics etc, but rather the two decision makers.
So what you have is a driver with a real chance of winning the drivers championship, but instead of getting behind him to give him as much as assistance as possible, you have Marko, and now Berger taking every opportunity to bad mouth that driver. Like the saying goes “with friends like these who needs enemies”. What other team would let someone with close ties to the team publicly make untrue claims about a driver who is getting good results for the team? No one. Most teams tend to support their drivers who are doing well.
LAK
5th November 2010, 2:51
Yeah I agree, he shouldn’t have came out and ranted the way he did. a divided team is the least thing he needs in a decisive weekend like this.. Does he remember McLaren 2007?
Incredulous
5th November 2010, 4:35
Read what he said. He didn’t say he wants Vettel’s help. He said that, emotionally, he feels that Vettel is the preferred driver at Red Bull. In other words Marko loves Vettel and will do everything he (Marko) can to get Vettel over the line. There has been more than enough evidence to support that this year (Turkey, Silverstone even Korea). Did Marko come out to support Webber as he walked back to the pits? He sure made sure he was front and centre for Vettel.
Daniel
6th November 2010, 12:22
Indeed:
“I repeat, we are building the team around Sebastian,” [Horner] told German publication Auto Bild. “Sebastian has a long career ahead of him, and hopefully he will spend it with us. Mark is in the autumn of his career. He wants to retire while he’s at the top, not when he’s past his peak like some other drivers.”
Luib
5th November 2010, 7:04
TommyB89, that is not what Webber said; he said that RBR is favoring Vettel not that he needs any helps from the young spoiled brat!
Todfod (@todfod)
5th November 2010, 7:57
@Tommy. Lewis only made that statement after McLaren decided that they would not take Button’s title shot away from him yet. Prior to that decision, Hamilton thought it ‘would be fantastic’ if Button could help him in his WDC charge. And as AndrewG said.. Button really doesnt have a chance of being much of a help anyways. Its ridiculous how people respect Lewis for every word scripted by his PR team.
Webber made these statements just because he is frustrated with the whole situation. Brabham said that Mark has thrown away the championship, while, Berger said that he intentionally tried to take a competitor out. Mark also knows that if it were Vettel had his current points tally, and if it were him trailing Fernando by 25 points, that Red Bull would probably support Vettel. But I guess with everything Mark and Sebastian have been throughout this year, they cannot expect help from each other. So I think Mark has to just deal with it, and try and outpace his teammate on track.
Jeffrey Powell
7th November 2010, 15:11
Yes easy to say when you have proved in most of the year’s races you are quicker than last years WDC. in the same car. I hope Webber wins if it is a choice between him and Vettel anything to stop Alonso. I was always a bit of a Massa fan but it was totally obvious Alonso was taken on as the Schumacher replacement in every way, unpleasant to see such a nice guy treated this way,still that’s F1 and it will allways be thus..
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th November 2010, 0:31
It could be a psychological thing to make Ferrari think that Webber’s on the back foot. It’s precisely what I’d do; hell, I’d even stage a very public spat about it on the weekend of the Grand Prix, probably before qualifying. Make Ferrari think that my team is fraying at the seams, get them relaxed and thinking that they’ve got it made, and then hit back where it hurts.
Cacarella
5th November 2010, 0:59
C’mon, you’re a very intelligent contributor to this site, you can’t possibly believe that a sad faced driver is enough to fake out a team like Ferrari (or any team for that matter).
You’re joking, no?
goWebber
5th November 2010, 3:07
There is too much at stake for one to just bend over a take it. Good on you Mark for standing up like a real man and not taking a subservient position in the corner like others would prefer. It would be poetic justice for Mark to take the WDC.
Ozzy
5th November 2010, 9:21
The way RBR supports vettel is ridiculous ans it’s obvious at this stage that Webber is frustrated. vettel with all the backing of RBR has been unable to lead the WDC. It would be justice if Webber wins this year in spite of all RBR oppossition.
jon
5th November 2010, 10:10
and leave the team next season………..lets hope he can do it an vettle looses his edge next year and gets beat by a rookie……….seat for the hulk…
Icthyes (@icthyes)
5th November 2010, 10:55
I’d read more into what you just said. Apart from the Silverstone debacle, Webber has probably been the person to talk least about Red Bull’s blatant favouritism. So why now? Because he’s becoming an old moaner? Or is there some kind of strategy to it?
He’s already implied Red Bull have to back him to win the championship and that was a few races ago. Realistically Vettel needs to score 16 points more than Alonso this weekend to be in it without requiring Alonso to score 0 in Abu Dhabi.
Plus, not so long ago Horner came out and said the team would be built around Vettel, meaning that Webber would basically have no chance of winning the WDC next year. There was hardly any need for that. Drivers are ruled by confidence and Horner’s message was second in “worst way to manage a driver” this year only to “Fernando is faster than you”.
I have always praised Webber for being open, honest and saying what he thinks. He hasn’t done anything different this time. Personally I hope whatever happens he quits Red Bull at the end of the year.
Mark
6th November 2010, 15:15
Horner has also said all year that Webber has the team’s support. Other than taking the wing from Webber’s car there has not been any out right favoritism technically for Vettle.
Webber unfortunately does complain publicly, Red Bull internally cannot be impressed. The favoritism is the same thing Alonso had to deal with at McLaren how many of you were defending him in the same scenario.
Scribe
5th November 2010, 0:26
Well Happy Birthday Adam.
I guess either double bluff from Keith in which case haaaappy birthday, an a thanks for this massive round up, an err this site it’s great, or the other obvious choice would be Steph? Probably best known user around, in which case haaaappy birthday, Forza Steph.
Guilherme (@the_philosopher)
5th November 2010, 0:42
I think Steph’s birthday is 16 of december or thereabouts…
Scribe
5th November 2010, 1:04
huh, when is Keiths?
First instinct correct?
Steph (@)
5th November 2010, 13:42
Happy birthday Keith! With Brazil this weekend I doubt you’ll get much time off but I really hope you have a good day. It’s been quite a year for year with the marriage and dedicating all your time to F1f!
Thanks Scribe but it isn’t my birthday for another month or so :)
Wow, very close Gilly! Mine’s actually the 15th of December. I’m impressed you remembered :)
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th November 2010, 8:53
Thanks guys, ’tis indeed my birthday today :-)
Maciek (@maciek)
5th November 2010, 9:07
Well then, Happy Birthday – hope you have a good one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voZw4qByKzQ
Dan Newton
5th November 2010, 9:50
Many Happy Returns Keith. Birthday on a race weekend at an exciting time in the championship…now that can’t be bad..
Sush Meerkat
5th November 2010, 10:30
Happy Birthday Keith!
Icthyes (@icthyes)
5th November 2010, 10:56
Happy Birthday Mr F1 Fanatic :D
Hope Adam has a great day too!
Red Andy (@red-andy)
5th November 2010, 11:34
I remember pointing this out last year, but Keith shares a birthday with James Allen.
What – you think that’s a coincidence?
sumedh
5th November 2010, 12:01
Oh, Happy Birthday Keith!! Turned 30 today?
Magnificent Geoffrey (@magnificent-geoffrey)
5th November 2010, 17:27
Happy Birthday Keith!
I’ll get the confetti and balloons out…
wellred
5th November 2010, 21:03
Many happy returns sir and all the best. Cheers.
José Baudaier
5th November 2010, 21:28
Happy birthday then Keith.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
5th November 2010, 17:28
Happy B-day Adam and Keith!
Glenn
5th November 2010, 0:29
Well this just kinda intensifies the feeling that I’ve had that Webber is on his way out of RBR. I think we might join Ferrari to have an all-Flavio team.. Or perhaps to join Kubica @ Renault… Either way not the ideal PR scenario to have your top driver bash your own team prior to the season finale.
Scribe
5th November 2010, 1:08
He has a point but he must be damn stressed, chilled out my backside, Button was supposedly chilled last year and he admitted afterwards he was feeling the heat.
I mean after Korea you’d start getting in your excuses early huh? An Brabham went and knifed him in the front, I don’t think Webber knows what he’s saying, I just hope it works out for him in the end.
Andrew G
5th November 2010, 0:29
I’m not sure you read all of the interview. Webber isn’t saying that Vettel should help him, he’s saying that Redbull has, and will, support Vettel over him. Not the same thing.
Kate
5th November 2010, 0:38
True.
You know what strikes me? Webber hasn’t actually said much about Vettel personally in these latest quotes – or indeed very much at all throughout the season. They seem to be aimed much more at the team and Marko. But Vettel’s comments are aimed squarely at Webber. Like he is taking offence at the idea that Webber thinks the team favour him. Its an interesting dynamic there, but I’m not entirely sure what it means.
Andrew G
5th November 2010, 0:47
I really don’t think Webber’s issue is with Vettel. It’s not really Vettel that has ‘made’ his team favour him, so I think Webber realises it’s the team management.
Incredulous
5th November 2010, 4:39
IMO, Vettel knows he’s on a good thing and is hanging on for all its worth. Guess Mark must be better than what Vettel thought. If Vettel is the WonderKid, Mark must be the WonderDad. There is never very much between them
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th November 2010, 0:31
http://tazio.uol.com.br/f-1/textos/22175/
A Sao Paulo prosecutor claims that if Massa assists Alonso, he’ll be arrested for fraud.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th November 2010, 0:39
Did you not see the Comment of the Day?
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th November 2010, 1:38
Steal my thunder!
tharris19
5th November 2010, 2:21
If he helps Alonso, it won’t be the prosecutor he will need to worry about, it will be the fans.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
5th November 2010, 4:20
Yeah, that’s why I suspect prosecution will be the best outcome.
Such an event would really ruin Alonso’s championship. It would make three major contorversies – spygate, crashgate and Massagate – that he had been involved in in the space of four years. In fact, he would be implicit in the three biggest controviersies to face the sport. Not an astonishing track record.
I wonder what the FIA’s response to this would be. They’d pretty much be forced to take action against Ferrari. Even if they have admitted that the rule banning team orders is impossible to enforce, that rule still exists. There is no way they could justify inaction against Ferrari if their actions led to one of their drivers being arrested. And if Ferrari tried to push blame onto Massa, saying it was his actions and his alone, then that’s just as bad for them. I wouldn’t be surprised if such a scenario saw Ferrari excluded from the championship.
Maciek (@maciek)
5th November 2010, 8:43
Some people’s anti-Ferrari zeal is almost kind of endearing in a twisted sort of way. Great theory, PM, really, sounds realistic. Speaking of the probability that Massa will be ahead of Alonso at any point this weekend, how many times has that happened this season, exactly?
Tim
5th November 2010, 11:44
Actually, I suspect the FIA’s first action would be to strike the Brazilian GP from the calendar altogether.
Had anyone been convicted under Italian law for the death of Ayrton Senna (or indeed Jochen Rindt before him) it was doubtful that F1 would have had any sort future in Italy, where the law insists that someone must be culpable for any sort of non-natural death. In the event of a prosecution for race fixing, the FIA would likely deem Brazil as an unsuitable place for an F1 race and withdraw sanctioning from other motorsport events.
And given that the FIA has fundamentally condoned the use of team orders (albeit not in certain circumstances) and dismissed the current restrictions as unworkable, they’d probably be forced to defend their position against any prosecution.
Luib
5th November 2010, 7:12
Prisoner Monkeys,
you are a very funny guy! Since when is a player in a team is being investigated for helping a team mate to score?
In case you missed that Massa belong to the SAME team, Ferrari!
bananarama
5th November 2010, 8:31
So will he be arrested the same way that he was arrested when he helped Kimi win the title 3 years ago?
I’ve been to Brasil often and I know these people, they like to blabber 24/7 even f they have absolutely nothing to say .. thats not to put them down, it can be very entertaining, but usually there is a lot of talk and very little action.
DeadManWoking
5th November 2010, 10:04
Hmmm…and I always thought PM was an Aussie not a Brasileira :D
Icthyes (@icthyes)
5th November 2010, 11:05
I think it actually has to happen in Brazil.
Red Andy (@red-andy)
5th November 2010, 11:36
It did happen in Brazil! The 2007 race was more memorable for Hamilton’s Formula Renault-style first lap and spontaneous engaging of the pit limiter, but it was also notable for Massa letting Raikkonen through at the second round of pit stops so that Kimi could win the title.
Remember now? ;)
LutzF1
5th November 2010, 16:15
The law that prosecutor cites is only applicable on NATIONAL sporting events.
IMO this guy is just trying to get media attention.
Victor.
5th November 2010, 0:36
I have been critical of Horner before, but I think he’s handled this situation pretty well. Webber, of course, is right, but I don’t know whether he should voice his opinion.
And I love the fraud law :).
bananarama
5th November 2010, 8:43
There are laws against fraud in every country (in Germany for example §263StGB, §823ff BGB, §923 BGB etc.).
What we are looking at here is not fraud. Lets compare it to football, the sport this law surely was designed for. Fraud would be if a keeper on purpose lets an easy ball go through his hands so the opponent scores or a defender purposely losing the ball to the opponent or causing a penalty.
Whats the equivalent to that in F1? It would be Massa crashing into others to take them out of the running or holding them up in qualifying or something like that.
Helping Alonso to win the title is not fraud, or would you say its fraud when in a football match the midfielder plays the ball to the striker to score the goal instead of making it himself?
Maybe I’m mistaen but I thought in team sports team members help eachother. As long as Massa does it because he decides to do it himself and isn’t forced to do it from outside, I don’t see how this would be ilegel, not even by the anti-teamorder rule of the FIA.
W154
5th November 2010, 0:39
Vettel is reported to have stated to German TV ‘If Mark needs help he should take the medical car’. New low in team mate relationship.Suspect things are going to get worse before they get better. Fireworks this weekend at Interlagos?
Kate
5th November 2010, 0:42
What does that even mean?!
I presume its not meant to complimentary though!
Electrolite
5th November 2010, 0:57
Good old Webber to tell it like it is. I think if he’s going to win then he’ll do it without the backing or assistance from anyone.
José Baudaier
5th November 2010, 1:02
If only the “Estatuto do torcedor” were taken seriously anywhere here in Brazil… But we see over and over again it being disobeyed in football events with no punishment, why would it be different with F1?
It’s easier for HRT to win the race than anybody being arrested for not obeying the statute.
Guilherme (@the_philosopher)
5th November 2010, 1:11
Just when I thought Brazil’s law system couldn’t be more blind…
Seriously, what’s up with that prosecutor? When the Estatuto do Torcedor was ratified in 2007 it only had football in mind (presumably in the wake of the 2005 Brazilian Championship fixing scandal).
Even though I hate team orders, it has been part of the sport since ever. Just imagine how bad it would look if drivers or team members left the circuit wearing handcuffs!
Even though we tend to support drivers, Formula 1 is still a team sport. If I support Ferrari, then I’d want Alonso to come home in front of Massa to help secure the title. It is not a “fraud” against the supporter. But at the same time a McLaren supporter could acuse Ferrari, because if Fernando finishes in front of Massa, it will be bad for Hamilton…
This law system is drowned in hypocrisy. When they created this statute they didn’t care about volleyball, basketball, athletics, swimming and much less about F1. It was purely created with football in mind. Why bring this up to F1 now?
I wonder what Bernie would think if they arrested someone for fraud this weekend… “Brazil, that country with wierd laws?! Of course we are not going there anymore…!”
sato113 (@sato113)
5th November 2010, 1:18
annoyingly no onboard shot from Rosberg’s car! must be saving that for the seasno review…
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
5th November 2010, 1:38
Webber lost his chance in the Korean GP by making a mistake of his own so if he now claims that Red Bull are behind his team-mate then that will be wrong. Just go out there & driver as hard as you can.
COJones
5th November 2010, 1:45
Webber always does seem to be circumspect when he speaks, doesn’t he? But, that is because of his wisdom and much to his favor. I see nowhere in any of your references where Mark says “Red Bull favors Vettel”. What I see is “F1 Fanatic” grasping for an exaggerated and embellished headline that is only based on paraphrasing multiple articles and relying on innuendo. I totally understand what you meant in posting this article but it is just arm-waving hysterics that aren’t based in fact.
Mike
5th November 2010, 2:19
I don’t think that’s quite right, Mark’s comments didn’t really make for a story, but I think if you read a bit more, you’ll find that peoples responses Mark’s statements make it quite interesting.
DavidS
5th November 2010, 1:51
In other news: Vatican admits Pope Catholic.
I agree with Prisoner Monkeys on this one, Red Bull are trying to give off the appearance that they will sabotage Webber’s championship bid to appease Vettel.
It remains to be seen whether this is true or not, so it’s too soon for everyone to speculate on Red Bull losing as a result of this.
I think letting Mark make comments like this to the media, and from what I can gather from other commenters, Vettel is also making in the German media, is atypical for an F1 teams PR department.
The simple truth is we have no idea what is going to happen next, and that’s what makes it the best season in years.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
5th November 2010, 1:59
He’s right, anyway, isn’t he?.
If vettel was ahead of Mark, they’d instantly ask Mark to play support role. We all know that, it’s pretty obvious.
And it’s life, isn’t it? It’s just the young one that should be the winner. A bit like Irvine and Schumacher in 1999. What would’ve happened if Eddie won the first Ferrari championship in 21 years?. It’d have been mad, because it’d not have been the way it should have.
Appart from that, if you read the whole article, it’s pretty obvious he got ****** off with Berger comments, a guy pretty close to Red Bull. His comments came out on Red Bull TV. So that makes a lot more harm than Mark’s comments about the team prefering Vettel, which is fine.
He knows that. We all know that. Why such a fuss about something we all know?
OEL
5th November 2010, 11:04
” What would’ve happened if Eddie won the first Ferrari championship in 21 years?” Would be 20 years if he’d win it in 1999. Otherwise I agree with you and to Webber to 100%. I wonder if Horner has actually read the article.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
5th November 2010, 11:09
I so badly wanted Irvine to win that year; I have antecedents from Northern Ireland and it would have been a great story. If only he hadn’t made that mistake in Hungary which allowed Coulthard to pass him he would have been champion.
Red Andy (@red-andy)
5th November 2010, 11:38
Or if Schumacher had tried a little harder to beat Hakkinen at Suzuka….I’m big on the conspiracy theories this morning, aren’t I? Honestly, it’s just a coincidence.
Mike
5th November 2010, 2:14
Well Webber didn’t really need to say it did he?
And he is 100% right as well. But as he said,
“It’s obvious, isn’t it?” But added it was “absolutely fine.”
I think this is only a big story, because Horner etc got uppity about it.
Incredulous
5th November 2010, 4:44
Horner is just a clove puppet for Marko. He is the real reason for the infighting at RB.
HarryD
5th November 2010, 2:41
This reminds me of the time when Horner said they dont need experience to win World Championships…I’m sorry mate but you do.Its Horner’s and upper management fault that they are in this debacle. They should have wrapped up both championships ages ago but they havent. Horner doesnt not possess any skill whatsoever. I wonder what has he done to be a team principal.I hope Webber can stick it back to them all. But my heart still says Lewis deserves this Title.
SeanG
5th November 2010, 3:54
Wouldn’t it be great if Alonso would say something like that?
Arn9
5th November 2010, 4:36
Flavio + Mark = Art of whining
Cyan
5th November 2010, 5:04
If massa were arrested for relinquishing his win to Alonso, there is a o% chance Formula 1 would visit Brazil again.
F1 dropped Jerez from their calendar due to a screwup in the podium presentation on the part of the race organizers…imagine their response if the local authorities were to bring the sport into disrepute by arresting a driver for aiding his team. Comments like the one from this prosecutor make the Brazilian legal system look like a joke.
kenneth Ntulume
5th November 2010, 6:10
….”Comments like the one from this prosecutor make the Brazilian legal system look like a joke….”
I dont see the joke
Hamish
5th November 2010, 6:11
I disagree. Turkey had this issue a few years back in regards to the podium situation and they are still there, and lets be honest – Interlagos is a higher priority than Istanbul.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200703/29/eng20070329_362006.html
I would say don’t mix sport and politics. but this is F1 after all.
Johnny86
5th November 2010, 6:14
Prisoner monkeys seem to be obsessed with alonso and ferrari. Alonso ,yes i agree he was involved in spygate and probably team order as well. But he wasnt involved in crashgate . Get your facts right. The Fia clarified that alonso had no involvement in it whatsoever. So stop being delusional. And Ferrari will use TO in brazil if required as will the other two teams if required. They dont care what some lawyer say. What was he doing in 2007??
Speaking of ferrari being DQ’ed from championship what about lie-gate?? Didnt it tarnish the image of f1?? Isnt lying in a sports event and cheating to disadvantage another driver a crime as well ?? Were mclaren and hamilton disqualified from the championship? Yes from the race they were. I believe if the crashgate were to come out after the race then renault and alonso would’ve been Dq’ed from the race. But they couldnt do it after the championship was decided a year ago. So stop being a biased,delusional fanboy .
Hamish
5th November 2010, 7:13
Don’t knock the guy, in the driver lineup changes last year he picked half more than anyone else.
His words, not mine.
Lachie
5th November 2010, 6:36
Did anyone see here that they quote Webber as saying “F!$%*& obvious, isn’t it?”. Did you censor it Keith (fair enough too) or is The Guardian sensationalising (to a rathe large extent I’d say). I mean sure Webber’s a fellow Aussie but we don’t all f&%$!# swear all the f$%!#& time!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/nov/04/mark-webber-sebastian-vettel-red-bull
BasCB
5th November 2010, 7:53
Happy birthday Adam, and you know who!
Touché for the comment on the stewards allegably opening up a bit more Keith.
daykind
5th November 2010, 8:29
Happy birthday Keith!!!
John H
5th November 2010, 9:03
He’s got a very good point, but this should be left for after the championship has finished.
Rahim.RG
5th November 2010, 9:21
There’s too Much whining nowadays…..
MacLeod
5th November 2010, 9:46
Happy Birthday to those birthday celebreties!
So this means next year Webber gone RBR has a place? So Nico is moving to RBR, Sutil to Mercedes? Then the rumours finally is starting to make any sense if rumours can be making sense anyway.
Nathan Bradley
5th November 2010, 10:02
Happy birthday Adam and Keith!
Oh, Keith, if you have any of that Elixir of life to sell, I’ll have some. I say this because with the amount of articles, news, etc that you post, I sometimes think you must have found a way to survive without any sleep! :)
Thanks for all the hard work, I (along with many others) really appreciate it.
Nathan
xabregas
5th November 2010, 10:44
Congratulations Keith
xabregas
5th November 2010, 10:48
Almost forgot, sorry
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday to you
Happy birthday dear Keith
Happy birthday to you
W154
5th November 2010, 11:44
Thats a good photo of MW v The Media. Can any body put names to the faces. Looks like Joe Saward on RHS with paper under chin and Bob Constanduros in black shirt above MW head?
HounslowBusGarage
5th November 2010, 11:51
There’s a very strange bit in the Korean Herald story.
Quote
“On Wednesday, the KAVO announced that the Korean F3 Superprix, the one-off racing event, which was due to be held at the Yeongam circuit this month, had been canceled due to a delay in receiving approval from the inspectors. ”
Unquote
So an F3 event will not be held at a circuit that was inspected and passed for F1 just a few weeks previously? That doesn’t work for me. If the FIA was able to shorten the inspection timetable for the F1 race, can’t it do the same for the F3 race?
Or is something else going on here; a lack of entries or seat sales, perhaps?
Faraz
5th November 2010, 13:54
Listen RBR are once again making fools of themselves.
How stupid will all the other teams look if Fernando and Ferrari won the championship?? Very.
RBR and Mclaren Both need to get behind Mark and Lewis.
Ferrari are not the easiest team to support but you have to praise their Initiative. I will not be surprised if Fernando becomes champion this year.
Go Mark! You deserve to be champion.
Astonished
5th November 2010, 19:33
Webber is #2 at RBR and Vettel is #1. Since #2 is ahead of #1 the only possible way of presenting it is “we do not favour any driver”.
Having (or not) #1 and #2 is any team’s choice (opinions on this, thousands in this site), but deciding to go for a rank and base it on emotional terms instead of performance is, in my opinion, not very smart.
Others did in the past with bad outcome
Faraz
5th November 2010, 22:03
Yes good opinion Mark Is clearly the more mature than Vettel He has a better chance both RBR and Mclaren need to start supporting Mark and Lewis.
Otherwise Fernando will run away with it be it extending his advantage in Brazil or winning it in Abu-Dabhi
verstappen
5th November 2010, 14:24
First: happy birthday Keith. This site is awesome, keep up the good work!
A practical question on the championshipvote: Is the voting now closed? From my mobile I cannot vote (just a thing in my old Nokia) and now it looks like I voted for Webber. Which I did not.
Maybe the vote favoured Webber by default?
:-)
The Limit
5th November 2010, 14:52
I think it is counterproductive. Mark Webber is the best placed in the championship to take on Alonso in Brazil. He needs the team around them, and if they are not as he claims, the coming out and airing his views in public could make this even more difficult.
He has to remember that, if he had not made his error at turn twelve in Korea, then he would have won the grands prix and would still be leading the title. I know alot of people out there buy the line that Vettel is the golden boy at Red Bull, and that may carry some weight, but lets look at the facts.
Mark Webber has won plenty of grands prix this year, has had the well earned luxary of driving the season’s dominant chassis, and could still be this years champion.
I can remember back in 2007 at the Brazilian Grands Prix, Fernando Alonso admitting to the media after the race that McLaren ‘had provided me with a car capable of winning the championship’. This in light of the fact that he had been vocal to say the least about the teams support of then rookie Lewis Hamilton throughout that season, and that he ended the year tied on points with the Englishman.
What more can a driver ask for than to go into a season driving for a team that has the potential to be champions, fighting for victories consistenly? Is Webber now, realising that he has lost the title to Alonso coming up with excuses for not winning? I let you guy’s be the judge!
wellred
5th November 2010, 21:14
If Webber truly believes Red Bull favours the younger Vettel, the Australian is showing the team the error of their ways by being higher in the current driver standings compared to his team mate.
Pink Pirelli
6th November 2010, 7:39
RBR are up against Ferrari, whom we all know as wily old foxes who know a thing or two about winning. To beat them is going to mean playing smarter. In my book, smarter is not divvying up your eggs into baskets equally, when one basket has consistently shown to be more fragile. Just saying.
dsob
6th November 2010, 9:12
I’d like to point out that Mark Webber did not initiate the discussion of possible favouritism at RBR. His comments were a reply to a direct question.
And, of Course, it IS %*&^*&*($% obvious that RBR certainly favor Vettel as the future RBR superstar, isn’t it? Not saying there is anything inherently wrong with that. A team with sense will always go with the younger talent to build on for the future. It’s just so disingenuous of everyone at RBR to keep saying they support their drivers in the same way. Technical/mechanical, maybe, yes. But not in other ways. OK,
Tangentially, I make the observation that if RBR were favoring Vettel on things technical/mechanical, then it should be glaringly obvious to all that Vettel is a bad bet for a team. He blows engines and explodes brakes like there was no tomorrow. With equal(or inferior, you choose) equipment, Webber keeps his cars together–yes, of course with the exception of the double-halfgainer-with-a-twist trick at the Spanish Air Show, and at Korea. My opinion is that Vettel needs to be sent back down to the minors (a baseball term)-that is, sent back to GP2, to hone his skills as a driver. There is more to driving a racing car than simply pushing the pedal as hard as one can and giving smilingly coy interviews to the media.
gwen
7th November 2010, 7:03
Webber needs to stop whining and get into his car and drive!