??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??

F1 Fanatic round-up

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz has spelled out his team’s policy ahead of the season finale. Here’s today’s round-up:

Links

Red Bull boss: No driver favouritism, I don?t care if we lose (James Allen)

??Let the two drivers race and what will be will be. if Alonso wins we will have been unlucky. I predict a Hollywood ending. Worst case scenario we don?t become champion? We?ll do it next year. But our philosophy stays the same because this is sport and it must remain sport. We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari do.??

Dieter Rencken previews “Senna” film (TopCar)

“Despite cutting it to 147 minutes the producers remained dissatisfied. Ultimately the production was edited to 104 minutes as demanded by Universal. In the process many gems were discarded, but the production trio compensated by retaining priceless moments and copious quantities of previously unseen/behind-the-scenes footage, including key incidents he was involved in, enquiries drivers? briefings and more intimate moments.”

David Hunt Exclusive On Team Lotus (The Race Driver)

“When they bought Group Lotus in late 1996 a lot of Malaysian dignitaries flew over to see the new purchase at a launch event. They were taken completely by surprise when they learned that their new trophy asset did not include an F1 racing team. It?s a bit like the Americans thinking they?d bought Tower Bridge only to find the old London Bridge on their doorstep. It seems the Malaysians had been lacking in their Due Diligence.”

Fernando Alonso ’100%’ confident of winning F1 title (BBC)

“I just need to finish second. It doesn’t matter who wins in Abu Dhabi if I finish second.”

The Art of Simulation (Williams)

“Chris Partridge has been given rare access to the Williams Formula 1 team’s simulator.”

Paddock life: Interlagos edition (Autosport)

“Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali joked with the media that he had been ‘trembling’ with worry that the local fans would berate his team over what happened at Hockenheim, but instead they simply heaped all their antagonism on Fernando Alonso instead. It was amazing seeing Ferrari-shirted fans booing one of the Maranello drivers before cheering on the other one.”

Russia?s Vladimir Putin gives F1 car a whirl

“Vladimir Putin just cannot stay away from manly pursuits.”

Comment of the day

Lewis Hamilton anywhere other than McLaren is hard to imagine, but so was Michael Schumacher in a car that isn’t red. Chris P wonders if it could happen:

If you are at McLaren or Ferrari you know a championship winning car will come along every couple of years. Question is now with Red Bull having the quickest car for two years (challenging for the championship up to the wire in both years) will they continue to thwart the established teams? Will Mercedes be in the mix next year?

Hamilton should have won 2007, he won 2008, 2009 was impossible to win and this year without his run of three DNFs he probably should have 20-30 more points than he has. So in his four years in F1 he has gone into the last race with a chance of winning the WDC on three occasions. No one else has been in the same position. Should he seriously consider changing teams?
Chris P

From the forum

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Site updates

We’ve had some problems with spam in the forum recently, thanks to everyone who’s warned me about spam threads and thanks also to TommyB89 for getting rid of some of them.

I’ve made some changed to the anti-spam system which will hopefully help alleviate the problem.

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On this day in F1

Back in 2000 Ricardo Zonta and BAR parted on angry terms, the Brazilian telling the press:

Instead of finding support and comfort with Jacques Villeneuve and Craig Pollock, I found critical remarks which were unjustified. And from there the personal errors multiplied. I felt lost. I could not work as well as I fought to earn some points and return myself to the top.
Ricardo Zonta

After that Zonta made a handful of starts for Jordan and Toyota in 2002 and 2004.

He was deployed a substitute in Ralf Schumacher’s place at Indianapolis in 2005, but of course he never got to start the race.

Read more: United States Grand Prix 2005 Review

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214 comments on ??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??

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  1. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 9th November 2010, 0:12

    “Let the two drivers race and what will be will be. if Alonso wins we will have been unlucky. I predict a Hollywood ending. Worst case scenario we don’t become champion? We’ll do it next year. But our philosophy stays the same because this is sport and it must remain sport. We don’t manipulate things like Ferrari do.”

    My god. How do you know you’ll have a good car next year? and even if you manage to design a car as good as this one, why are you so sure you’re gonna win?. You won’t do it this year with such a beast of a car in the end…

    It’s not a question of “manipulating” things. It’s something even Mclaren have done!. And you’d still say: “it’s all about team work”.

    I cannot understand this! You’d be beating Ferrari at their own game!!!

    • Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 9th November 2010, 0:14

      plus, if it’s so true they don’t “manipulate things”, why did that front wing go to Vettel’s car? by then Horner said it was because Vettel was higher in the championship standings.

      So you’re saying two things about the same situation. Only that it’s not a front wing you’re discussing about. It’s a drivers championship that’s in play.

      • I confess Fer, I am so baffled by this, Newey himself has stated that he puts his team sucsess down to fresh regulations, that won’t last forever. I still can’t belive there acting like there going to throw it away like this. That cackle Fernando gave in Korea when they self destructed for him first time/ I reckon we’ll here it again.

        Also if it wasn’t for Lewis’s DNF’s he’d be right in on this one, especially Spain, gah!

      • Fer, Great point about the front wing. I almost forgot about that comment by Horner.
        It’s official Deitrich, Helmut and Horner have started to believe their own B.S.

    • Krosh said on 9th November 2010, 2:02

      Indeed, he shouldn’t be so confident about the future of the team. Besides, there is another problem that is to avoid the battles between Vettel and Webber. Some drivers has had their races ruined by Vettel’s imprudence.

    • Cunning Stunt 8 said on 9th November 2010, 6:40

      Well of course Dietrich would say that to the press, but behind the scenes I bet he’s telling the team they’d absolutely better do what it takes win. Remember, Dietrich’s main concern is building the brand and image of Red Bull, and if Red Bull can win both championships without (appearing to) “manipulate things” and beat Ferrari who blatantly have, wouldn’t that be the best possible outcome for Red Bull?

      • if webbo wins itll cost a fortune in new rb cans…..thay put vets face on it at the start ov da season….wats dat tell ya……webbos leaving rb….deffo….

    • infy (@infy) said on 9th November 2010, 8:39

      Mateschitz is blowing bull out of his ass. He makes that statement now, knowing that Seb will have to move over for Webb. Its all just fake RP. Trying to make them look like angels.

      Truth is that before the race in the team briefing, they will go through the scenario together with the two drivers. They will make sure that Seb knows when to move over for Webber, so that no radio orders have to be made. Afterwards Seb will go out to the press and tell him how he volunteered to do it for his team mate because he is just such a nice person and all. Meanwhile it was only because it was the team who ordered it (behind closed doors).

      If Seb doesn’t move over, and Web and Seb lose the WDC, then I will believe they had no team orders.

      • Yep, have to agree with that logic, they are really milking this to have the RB brand shown in the best light. Fair and non manipulative, but these public statements are making me feel ill.

      • Alex Bkk said on 9th November 2010, 14:14

        “I’ll pull over for Mark” is Seb saying the same P.R. that Mateschitz is spewing. I don’t think he’d pull over for anyone.

        Interesting isn’t it that it’s Vettel thats pulling over for Mark and not Mark having poll and leading the race on merit that every one is talking about.

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 9th November 2010, 23:28

          Interesting isn’t it that it’s Vettel thats pulling over for Mark and not Mark having poll and leading the race on merit that every one is talking about.

          That’s cos Webber hasn’t beaten Vettel in any of the last 5 races.

          And Webber hasn’t won from pole for 12 races.

      • it’s more than a simple ‘public relations’ speach. It’s all marketing strategy. And i think it will be better for the Red Bull brand to let them fight fairly than fixing results.

        They sponsor several athletes and sports involving adventure and challenge. Faking results will damage the reputation more than loosing the drivers championship.

    • spectator said on 9th November 2010, 20:12

      how can redbull be that fake eevn whitmarsh has “forgotten” ferraris incident cause theres no point for more mind games mclaren is out of contention so they admited they didnt had the car and moved on cause every team is like ferrari or worse cause we dont get the coded messages like “mark yyour engine is running hot so push button X,O,R1,L2 “

    • Mateschitz for the losers. he just came out and said he will not have any team orders like him and his sugar water co. are moral giants. this has nothing to do with sportmanship. Mateschitz does not want to do anything to get in the way of Vettel. even on the last lap in a vet web alonso 1 2 3. nothing period?. so then after Webber had 3 mechanical failures last year and was out of the running why did Mateschitz have no problem with Webber saying he would do all he could to help Vettel in the drivers championship. sportmanship is ok. but this is just favouritism with spin.

    • tharris19 said on 10th November 2010, 3:29

      The wing decision did not take place on track nor did it impact the race. There was no change of position to influence the points.
      If they want to give Webber a peddle car and Vettel a race car that’s his choice. As long as he does not bring it into the race. Ferrari decision impacted the outcome of a race and maybe a championship. Big difference.

  2. Dipak T said on 9th November 2010, 0:15

    Lotus Racing is Team Lotus. Group Lotus were never Team Lotus. They have the Chapman’s backing and Colin’s ‘in case of victory’ black cap. End of story.

    • Hamish said on 9th November 2010, 1:42

      I am absolutely certain that is not the end of the story.

    • Adrian said on 9th November 2010, 13:19

      You know what strikes me is that if Group Lotus enter F1 next year in a tie-up with Renault…they won’t be able to use the famous Lotus badge as the rights to use that in F1 rest with Team Lotus…which Group Lotus doesn’t own…but Lotus Racing does.

      This is going to get messy and I fear could leave a sour taste in the mouths of many of the fans that Lotus Racing have attracted this year – myself included.

      • Jim N said on 9th November 2010, 14:23

        I’m very sad about this as I think Lotus Racing have done a great job this year. But as Proton who own Group Lotus is owned by the Malaysian government, and Fernandes’ companies are part financed by the Malaysian government it very much looks that no matter what the rights and wrongs or who owns what, the final deal will be a political one based on what is best for the Malaysian government…… and I very much doubt if that is what would be best for the F1 fans.

        • Unfortunately, all Fernandez owns is the rights to prevent someone else from running as “Team Lotus”. Other than that, Group Lotus has the Lotus name.

          At the end of the day, Fernandez is an independent business man and is not government supported. The Malaysian government will do something stupid like tying up with Renault simply because they can, not because it makes sense. They probably think that they have more chance of winning with Renault than with Fernandez and money is not relevant to the government since there is no accountability in Malaysia.

  3. Jarred Walmsley said on 9th November 2010, 0:30

    That didn’t look like an F1 car to me, the diffuser was way to shallow,so was it a GP2 car or just an older Renault in the new livery?

  4. Magnificent Geoffrey (@magnificent-geoffrey) said on 9th November 2010, 0:34

    That is an epic Troll Face Mateschitz has there.

  5. If either Hamilton or Alonso were in a Red Bull the last 2 years they would both have an extra 2 titles to their name. If they were together in that team, well, I would say Hamilton would have an extra title to his name and would be on the verge of another this weekend, his only competition being his team-mate.

  6. Ned Flanders (@ned-flanders) said on 9th November 2010, 0:36

    Vladimir Putin loves publicity like fish love water…

  7. LuvinF1 said on 9th November 2010, 0:53

    Rencken had to have misunderstood the make-up of Ayrton’s two family names when he says Ayrton “dropped his surname”.

  8. wasiF1 (@wasif1) said on 9th November 2010, 1:40

    It’s up to the team owner to decide what he wants, will he go for Number 1 at any cost or will play fair for everyone to enjoy so that at the end of the season no one can say that “They have won because of that”

  9. As much as I wouldn’t mind seeing Webber win, as a bit of an Alonso fan, I hope he wipes the floor with Red Bull next week.

    Red Bull are so full of it. If it were Vettel in the lead, he would have been their No.1 driver and we can look at the British GP for proof that.

    No it wasn’t letting a driver through, but I believe had Vettel been ahead we would have been hearing different things from the team.

    That’s just what I think. Could be wrong but who knows.

    • infy (@infy) said on 9th November 2010, 8:45

      woo, thats what I’m talking about baby.

    • Well you can’t compare letting another driver though and taking the decision and moving one component to the other car. Letting a driver though is removing the other driver from championship contention, and is very unfair sportsmanship. Though in Silverstone, they only had a single front wing and they gave it to seb, because he was in front in points. What if they gave it to Mark? That would have been very unfair favoring, because Mark hadn’t had as good performance as Seb, and Seb was in front in points. That would make absolutely no sense.

      • Rahzam said on 9th November 2010, 9:49

        I think, that front wing was Webber’s car. So it was unfair to give it to Vettel.

        Giving parts to one person is same as letting a driver through. Only difference is that they want to favor Vettel not Webber.

        • Skett said on 9th November 2010, 11:03

          Whilst I’d normally feel that if they only have one of something, its not unfair to give it to the driver currently ahead in the championship, I have to agree with you that in this case it was unfair. They each had one and Vettel’s broke, it may not have been his fault but it was still his that was broken.

        • Giving parts to one person is same as letting a driver through.

          No it’s most definitely not.

          • Astonished said on 9th November 2010, 21:02

            @ Mads,

            just one small detail. It is not that one part “breaks” (or “get broken”) is that one driver “breaks” “his” part and gets the part from “other” driver who “did not break” it.

            Small, but perhaps relevant…

        • It is not Webber’s car. Red Bull lets him use their car and paints 6 on it. Red Bull made two components, one broke. They therefore had to choose which car should have it. If they left it on the car Webber used there, he would have been favored with no reason. He didn’t have as many points, and before that it was clear who was the fastest of the two drivers anyway.
          It is not at all the same as letting another driver though. One thing is favoring, a whole other is chopping a drivers balls off. Look how it is going for Massa right now? After Hockenheim it have been downhill all the way.

          • Skett said on 9th November 2010, 17:33

            I don’t disagree on the point about it not being the same (lets face it massa has gone from being a couple tenths from alonso to seconds), but I disagree that it would have been favouritism if they gave it to webber, particularly as webber already had it!

            And don’t be picky over the fact that the drivers don’t actually own the parts, you know what we mean!

          • Yes but i don’t see how something can be “theirs” because it was fitted to their car. You should rather look at it, as they bring two components, one breaks and then have to choose which car that is going to race it.

          • DeadManWoking said on 9th November 2010, 20:59

            but I disagree that it would have been favouritism if they gave it to webber, particularly as webber already had it!

            When the nosecone mount broke on Vettel’s car, they removed the nosecones and reinforced the mountings on both cars. So no one “had it” then, they didn’t take it directly off Webber’s car and put it on Vettel’s.

  10. Eggry (@eggry) said on 9th November 2010, 1:43

    This doesn’t mean Vettel don’t gift win to Webber. if it’s his will, it will. Red Bull and Horner and Mateschitz will not order not to do it. of course they will not say “Webber is faster than you” on radio. so All is up to Vettel.

    even if they lose, I don’t think it’s real defeat for them. they “could” win. they’re trying to resist againt current F1 culture and it’s their target, the defeat would be more effective than the victory. because Alonso’s title would be gifted from their enemey! so they don’t lose much except the title.

    • Eggry,
      You are assuming that RBR is genuine when they say they treat their drivers equally. If they do not favor one over the other. They are definitely to be commended and are an example to all other teams.
      Listen to Anthony Davidson former F1 driver comments on 5Lives, Brazil review podcast. Let me know what you think?

      • Eggry (@eggry) said on 9th November 2010, 7:11

        Thank you for a comment. first of all, I have to say I don’t believe they treat their drivers equally. What I want to say is it’s Red Bull’s surface policy. They want to be seen as pure sportsman but I don’t think they have pure motivation, especially about equality. They just act based on marketing principle such as “Don’t be Evil” of Google.

  11. Go Alonso go …

  12. Stretch said on 9th November 2010, 2:11

    If Vettel was in front of Webber in the WDC, I’m sure that Mateschitz would have no problems ordering the ‘Bulls to swap places on track for Vettel’s benefit.
    Anyway, so glad that we only have to wait until Sunday (or early Monday morning for us) for the last race.

    • f1yankee said on 9th November 2010, 3:04

      i agree 100%

      comment too short :P

    • Spot on Stretch!
      Keep on spreading the truth brother. I do not understand people who do not get this. I am not a religious person but I am reminded of a verse in the bible.
      My lord they have eyes but yet they do not see.

    • BasCB said on 9th November 2010, 8:09

      I am not too sure about that. He was the one publicly stepping in and saying, that he will not favour any of his drivers after silverstone when it was clear that Marko and possibly Horner were pushing Vettel to have the advantage.
      At the time it was a great boost and even Marko has toned down the anti Webber public behaviour after that.

      • Agreed. If the shoe were on the other foot, Mark’d be told to “let Seb past for the championship” so fast it’d make your head spin. RBR can spin whatever tales they like and claim the moral high ground, but we fans (well not all of us anyway) aren’t quite that stupid.

  13. I said the same thing stretch said in a different thread.

  14. Cacarella (@cacarella) said on 9th November 2010, 2:32

    It’s fairly obvious to me anyway that if it’s VET,WEB,ALO in that order this weekend Vettel will let Webber past, the team will have discussed this ahead of time and if they didn’t it’s only because it’s so blatantly obvious that they wouldn’t think Vettel thick enough not to know it. But management can run around and say ‘we don’t issue orders’, do it behind closed doors, and claim their gas doesn’t smell.

    • monsol said on 9th November 2010, 8:30

      Maybe but I’m not so sure.

      If they had been kept silent about it, they could do the switch and nobody would object. Now it will look awful if they do.

  15. Quietus said on 9th November 2010, 2:50

    He clearly hasn’t got the memo from Horner

    • BasCB said on 9th November 2010, 8:11

      I would expect he has and now stamps his authority on “doing the sportsmanship like thing”.
      That said, I can hardly imagine Vettel not letting Mark past if they would be 1-2 with Vettel in front and with Alonso in 3rd at Abu Dhabi.

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