??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??

F1 Fanatic round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz has spelled out his team’s policy ahead of the season finale. Here’s today’s round-up:


Red Bull boss: No driver favouritism, I don?t care if we lose (James Allen)

??Let the two drivers race and what will be will be. if Alonso wins we will have been unlucky. I predict a Hollywood ending. Worst case scenario we don?t become champion? We?ll do it next year. But our philosophy stays the same because this is sport and it must remain sport. We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari do.??

Dieter Rencken previews “Senna” film (TopCar)

“Despite cutting it to 147 minutes the producers remained dissatisfied. Ultimately the production was edited to 104 minutes as demanded by Universal. In the process many gems were discarded, but the production trio compensated by retaining priceless moments and copious quantities of previously unseen/behind-the-scenes footage, including key incidents he was involved in, enquiries drivers? briefings and more intimate moments.”

David Hunt Exclusive On Team Lotus (The Race Driver)

“When they bought Group Lotus in late 1996 a lot of Malaysian dignitaries flew over to see the new purchase at a launch event. They were taken completely by surprise when they learned that their new trophy asset did not include an F1 racing team. It?s a bit like the Americans thinking they?d bought Tower Bridge only to find the old London Bridge on their doorstep. It seems the Malaysians had been lacking in their Due Diligence.”

Fernando Alonso ‘100%’ confident of winning F1 title (BBC)

“I just need to finish second. It doesn’t matter who wins in Abu Dhabi if I finish second.”

The Art of Simulation (Williams)

“Chris Partridge has been given rare access to the Williams Formula 1 team’s simulator.”

Paddock life: Interlagos edition (Autosport)

“Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali joked with the media that he had been ‘trembling’ with worry that the local fans would berate his team over what happened at Hockenheim, but instead they simply heaped all their antagonism on Fernando Alonso instead. It was amazing seeing Ferrari-shirted fans booing one of the Maranello drivers before cheering on the other one.”

Russia?s Vladimir Putin gives F1 car a whirl

“Vladimir Putin just cannot stay away from manly pursuits.”

Comment of the day

Lewis Hamilton anywhere other than McLaren is hard to imagine, but so was Michael Schumacher in a car that isn’t red. Chris P wonders if it could happen:

If you are at McLaren or Ferrari you know a championship winning car will come along every couple of years. Question is now with Red Bull having the quickest car for two years (challenging for the championship up to the wire in both years) will they continue to thwart the established teams? Will Mercedes be in the mix next year?

Hamilton should have won 2007, he won 2008, 2009 was impossible to win and this year without his run of three DNFs he probably should have 20-30 more points than he has. So in his four years in F1 he has gone into the last race with a chance of winning the WDC on three occasions. No one else has been in the same position. Should he seriously consider changing teams?
Chris P

From the forum

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Site updates

We’ve had some problems with spam in the forum recently, thanks to everyone who’s warned me about spam threads and thanks also to TommyB89 for getting rid of some of them.

I’ve made some changed to the anti-spam system which will hopefully help alleviate the problem.

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On this day in F1

Back in 2000 Ricardo Zonta and BAR parted on angry terms, the Brazilian telling the press:

Instead of finding support and comfort with Jacques Villeneuve and Craig Pollock, I found critical remarks which were unjustified. And from there the personal errors multiplied. I felt lost. I could not work as well as I fought to earn some points and return myself to the top.
Ricardo Zonta

After that Zonta made a handful of starts for Jordan and Toyota in 2002 and 2004.

He was deployed a substitute in Ralf Schumacher’s place at Indianapolis in 2005, but of course he never got to start the race.

Read more: United States Grand Prix 2005 Review

214 comments on “??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??”

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  1. “Let the two drivers race and what will be will be. if Alonso wins we will have been unlucky. I predict a Hollywood ending. Worst case scenario we don’t become champion? We’ll do it next year. But our philosophy stays the same because this is sport and it must remain sport. We don’t manipulate things like Ferrari do.”

    My god. How do you know you’ll have a good car next year? and even if you manage to design a car as good as this one, why are you so sure you’re gonna win?. You won’t do it this year with such a beast of a car in the end…

    It’s not a question of “manipulating” things. It’s something even Mclaren have done!. And you’d still say: “it’s all about team work”.

    I cannot understand this! You’d be beating Ferrari at their own game!!!

    1. plus, if it’s so true they don’t “manipulate things”, why did that front wing go to Vettel’s car? by then Horner said it was because Vettel was higher in the championship standings.

      So you’re saying two things about the same situation. Only that it’s not a front wing you’re discussing about. It’s a drivers championship that’s in play.

      1. I confess Fer, I am so baffled by this, Newey himself has stated that he puts his team sucsess down to fresh regulations, that won’t last forever. I still can’t belive there acting like there going to throw it away like this. That cackle Fernando gave in Korea when they self destructed for him first time/ I reckon we’ll here it again.

        Also if it wasn’t for Lewis’s DNF’s he’d be right in on this one, especially Spain, gah!

        1. that cackle was awesome. i thought the joker was driving…

        2. I don’t care if we lose

          Yer, but I’m guessing Mark and Sebatian don’t fell the same way you idiot.

          1. Mateschitz may aswell congratulate Alonso on winning the WDC now, instead of later

          2. To be fair Mateschitz has already won. It’s just Mark and Sebastian that are trying to win now.

      2. Fer, Great point about the front wing. I almost forgot about that comment by Horner.
        It’s official Deitrich, Helmut and Horner have started to believe their own B.S.

        1. Yeah, that Deitrich guy is a hypocrite !

    2. Indeed, he shouldn’t be so confident about the future of the team. Besides, there is another problem that is to avoid the battles between Vettel and Webber. Some drivers has had their races ruined by Vettel’s imprudence.

    3. Cunning Stunt 8
      9th November 2010, 6:40

      Well of course Dietrich would say that to the press, but behind the scenes I bet he’s telling the team they’d absolutely better do what it takes win. Remember, Dietrich’s main concern is building the brand and image of Red Bull, and if Red Bull can win both championships without (appearing to) “manipulate things” and beat Ferrari who blatantly have, wouldn’t that be the best possible outcome for Red Bull?

      1. if webbo wins itll cost a fortune in new rb cans…..thay put vets face on it at the start ov da season….wats dat tell ya……webbos leaving rb….deffo….

    4. Mateschitz is blowing bull out of his ass. He makes that statement now, knowing that Seb will have to move over for Webb. Its all just fake RP. Trying to make them look like angels.

      Truth is that before the race in the team briefing, they will go through the scenario together with the two drivers. They will make sure that Seb knows when to move over for Webber, so that no radio orders have to be made. Afterwards Seb will go out to the press and tell him how he volunteered to do it for his team mate because he is just such a nice person and all. Meanwhile it was only because it was the team who ordered it (behind closed doors).

      If Seb doesn’t move over, and Web and Seb lose the WDC, then I will believe they had no team orders.

      1. Yep, have to agree with that logic, they are really milking this to have the RB brand shown in the best light. Fair and non manipulative, but these public statements are making me feel ill.

      2. “I’ll pull over for Mark” is Seb saying the same P.R. that Mateschitz is spewing. I don’t think he’d pull over for anyone.

        Interesting isn’t it that it’s Vettel thats pulling over for Mark and not Mark having poll and leading the race on merit that every one is talking about.

        1. Interesting isn’t it that it’s Vettel thats pulling over for Mark and not Mark having poll and leading the race on merit that every one is talking about.

          That’s cos Webber hasn’t beaten Vettel in any of the last 5 races.

          And Webber hasn’t won from pole for 12 races.

      3. it’s more than a simple ‘public relations’ speach. It’s all marketing strategy. And i think it will be better for the Red Bull brand to let them fight fairly than fixing results.

        They sponsor several athletes and sports involving adventure and challenge. Faking results will damage the reputation more than loosing the drivers championship.

    5. how can redbull be that fake eevn whitmarsh has “forgotten” ferraris incident cause theres no point for more mind games mclaren is out of contention so they admited they didnt had the car and moved on cause every team is like ferrari or worse cause we dont get the coded messages like “mark yyour engine is running hot so push button X,O,R1,L2 “

    6. Mateschitz for the losers. he just came out and said he will not have any team orders like him and his sugar water co. are moral giants. this has nothing to do with sportmanship. Mateschitz does not want to do anything to get in the way of Vettel. even on the last lap in a vet web alonso 1 2 3. nothing period?. so then after Webber had 3 mechanical failures last year and was out of the running why did Mateschitz have no problem with Webber saying he would do all he could to help Vettel in the drivers championship. sportmanship is ok. but this is just favouritism with spin.

    7. The wing decision did not take place on track nor did it impact the race. There was no change of position to influence the points.
      If they want to give Webber a peddle car and Vettel a race car that’s his choice. As long as he does not bring it into the race. Ferrari decision impacted the outcome of a race and maybe a championship. Big difference.

  2. Lotus Racing is Team Lotus. Group Lotus were never Team Lotus. They have the Chapman’s backing and Colin’s ‘in case of victory’ black cap. End of story.

    1. I am absolutely certain that is not the end of the story.

    2. You know what strikes me is that if Group Lotus enter F1 next year in a tie-up with Renault…they won’t be able to use the famous Lotus badge as the rights to use that in F1 rest with Team Lotus…which Group Lotus doesn’t own…but Lotus Racing does.

      This is going to get messy and I fear could leave a sour taste in the mouths of many of the fans that Lotus Racing have attracted this year – myself included.

      1. I’m very sad about this as I think Lotus Racing have done a great job this year. But as Proton who own Group Lotus is owned by the Malaysian government, and Fernandes’ companies are part financed by the Malaysian government it very much looks that no matter what the rights and wrongs or who owns what, the final deal will be a political one based on what is best for the Malaysian government…… and I very much doubt if that is what would be best for the F1 fans.

        1. Unfortunately, all Fernandez owns is the rights to prevent someone else from running as “Team Lotus”. Other than that, Group Lotus has the Lotus name.

          At the end of the day, Fernandez is an independent business man and is not government supported. The Malaysian government will do something stupid like tying up with Renault simply because they can, not because it makes sense. They probably think that they have more chance of winning with Renault than with Fernandez and money is not relevant to the government since there is no accountability in Malaysia.

  3. Jarred Walmsley
    9th November 2010, 0:30

    That didn’t look like an F1 car to me, the diffuser was way to shallow,so was it a GP2 car or just an older Renault in the new livery?

    1. 2002/03 renault.

  4. That is an epic Troll Face Mateschitz has there.

  5. If either Hamilton or Alonso were in a Red Bull the last 2 years they would both have an extra 2 titles to their name. If they were together in that team, well, I would say Hamilton would have an extra title to his name and would be on the verge of another this weekend, his only competition being his team-mate.

    1. Actually Alonso would be 4 times champion because the Reb Bull cars and this year’ tyres are undesteery as hell. Nice try though.

      1. not quite sure exactly why this fact, if true, gives Alonso another 2 titles but ok…

      2. I think the Red Bull cars favor pure pace over car control….which Lewis and Seb have, Lewis has a lot of car control too…It would be an interesting battle for sure.

      3. Agreed Alexi, the ‘extra’ titles would be Alonso’s

        1. No. Lewis would be already a three time world champ…

          1. @ Becken: Nope!

  6. Vladimir Putin loves publicity like fish love water…

    1. Maybe because of Russian Reversal, Putin should get the second Renault seat next year and Petrov should be Prime Minister.

      1. Polonium 210 is on the list of FIA banned-materials.

      2. Interesting “spin” that Russians have on F1. :P

      3. In Putin’s Russia, F1 car drives YOU!

    2. Some people say that if Kim Jong Il was in the HRT, he would have won the Korean GP…

      1. Provided it had been in North Korea

    3. the putin propaganda machine is at full speed:

      a man like putin

      1. That is just brilliant, thanks for that, gave me a big laugh!

        1. actually, the first version i saw had some better lines.

          “a man like putin, not drunk all the time”
          et cetera

    4. Is it actually an F1 car? The wings are way too simple. To me it looks as if it’s Formula Renault or something

      1. i think the first car is a pre 2009/post 1997 f1 car, and the one you see later, with the fat nose cone is a formula renault (or some other formula/old f3 car)

      2. as above, 2003 renault R23 as driven by trulli and alonso

    5. Haha, how many takes do you think it took for him to pull away without stalling?

      1. Without Stalin?


          superb :D!

    6. In soviet Russia Formula 1 drives you!!

  7. Rencken had to have misunderstood the make-up of Ayrton’s two family names when he says Ayrton “dropped his surname”.

  8. It’s up to the team owner to decide what he wants, will he go for Number 1 at any cost or will play fair for everyone to enjoy so that at the end of the season no one can say that “They have won because of that”

  9. As much as I wouldn’t mind seeing Webber win, as a bit of an Alonso fan, I hope he wipes the floor with Red Bull next week.

    Red Bull are so full of it. If it were Vettel in the lead, he would have been their No.1 driver and we can look at the British GP for proof that.

    No it wasn’t letting a driver through, but I believe had Vettel been ahead we would have been hearing different things from the team.

    That’s just what I think. Could be wrong but who knows.

    1. woo, thats what I’m talking about baby.

    2. Well you can’t compare letting another driver though and taking the decision and moving one component to the other car. Letting a driver though is removing the other driver from championship contention, and is very unfair sportsmanship. Though in Silverstone, they only had a single front wing and they gave it to seb, because he was in front in points. What if they gave it to Mark? That would have been very unfair favoring, because Mark hadn’t had as good performance as Seb, and Seb was in front in points. That would make absolutely no sense.

      1. I think, that front wing was Webber’s car. So it was unfair to give it to Vettel.

        Giving parts to one person is same as letting a driver through. Only difference is that they want to favor Vettel not Webber.

        1. Whilst I’d normally feel that if they only have one of something, its not unfair to give it to the driver currently ahead in the championship, I have to agree with you that in this case it was unfair. They each had one and Vettel’s broke, it may not have been his fault but it was still his that was broken.

        2. Giving parts to one person is same as letting a driver through.

          No it’s most definitely not.

          1. @ Mads,

            just one small detail. It is not that one part “breaks” (or “get broken”) is that one driver “breaks” “his” part and gets the part from “other” driver who “did not break” it.

            Small, but perhaps relevant…

        3. It is not Webber’s car. Red Bull lets him use their car and paints 6 on it. Red Bull made two components, one broke. They therefore had to choose which car should have it. If they left it on the car Webber used there, he would have been favored with no reason. He didn’t have as many points, and before that it was clear who was the fastest of the two drivers anyway.
          It is not at all the same as letting another driver though. One thing is favoring, a whole other is chopping a drivers balls off. Look how it is going for Massa right now? After Hockenheim it have been downhill all the way.

          1. I don’t disagree on the point about it not being the same (lets face it massa has gone from being a couple tenths from alonso to seconds), but I disagree that it would have been favouritism if they gave it to webber, particularly as webber already had it!

            And don’t be picky over the fact that the drivers don’t actually own the parts, you know what we mean!

          2. Yes but i don’t see how something can be “theirs” because it was fitted to their car. You should rather look at it, as they bring two components, one breaks and then have to choose which car that is going to race it.

          3. DeadManWoking
            9th November 2010, 20:59

            but I disagree that it would have been favouritism if they gave it to webber, particularly as webber already had it!

            When the nosecone mount broke on Vettel’s car, they removed the nosecones and reinforced the mountings on both cars. So no one “had it” then, they didn’t take it directly off Webber’s car and put it on Vettel’s.

  10. This doesn’t mean Vettel don’t gift win to Webber. if it’s his will, it will. Red Bull and Horner and Mateschitz will not order not to do it. of course they will not say “Webber is faster than you” on radio. so All is up to Vettel.

    even if they lose, I don’t think it’s real defeat for them. they “could” win. they’re trying to resist againt current F1 culture and it’s their target, the defeat would be more effective than the victory. because Alonso’s title would be gifted from their enemey! so they don’t lose much except the title.

    1. Eggry,
      You are assuming that RBR is genuine when they say they treat their drivers equally. If they do not favor one over the other. They are definitely to be commended and are an example to all other teams.
      Listen to Anthony Davidson former F1 driver comments on 5Lives, Brazil review podcast. Let me know what you think?

      1. Thank you for a comment. first of all, I have to say I don’t believe they treat their drivers equally. What I want to say is it’s Red Bull’s surface policy. They want to be seen as pure sportsman but I don’t think they have pure motivation, especially about equality. They just act based on marketing principle such as “Don’t be Evil” of Google.

  11. Go Alonso go …

  12. If Vettel was in front of Webber in the WDC, I’m sure that Mateschitz would have no problems ordering the ‘Bulls to swap places on track for Vettel’s benefit.
    Anyway, so glad that we only have to wait until Sunday (or early Monday morning for us) for the last race.

    1. i agree 100%

      comment too short :P

    2. Spot on Stretch!
      Keep on spreading the truth brother. I do not understand people who do not get this. I am not a religious person but I am reminded of a verse in the bible.
      My lord they have eyes but yet they do not see.

    3. I am not too sure about that. He was the one publicly stepping in and saying, that he will not favour any of his drivers after silverstone when it was clear that Marko and possibly Horner were pushing Vettel to have the advantage.
      At the time it was a great boost and even Marko has toned down the anti Webber public behaviour after that.

      1. Agreed. If the shoe were on the other foot, Mark’d be told to “let Seb past for the championship” so fast it’d make your head spin. RBR can spin whatever tales they like and claim the moral high ground, but we fans (well not all of us anyway) aren’t quite that stupid.

  13. I said the same thing stretch said in a different thread.

    1. yeah i saw that after i posted it…

  14. It’s fairly obvious to me anyway that if it’s VET,WEB,ALO in that order this weekend Vettel will let Webber past, the team will have discussed this ahead of time and if they didn’t it’s only because it’s so blatantly obvious that they wouldn’t think Vettel thick enough not to know it. But management can run around and say ‘we don’t issue orders’, do it behind closed doors, and claim their gas doesn’t smell.

    1. Maybe but I’m not so sure.

      If they had been kept silent about it, they could do the switch and nobody would object. Now it will look awful if they do.

  15. He clearly hasn’t got the memo from Horner

    1. I would expect he has and now stamps his authority on “doing the sportsmanship like thing”.
      That said, I can hardly imagine Vettel not letting Mark past if they would be 1-2 with Vettel in front and with Alonso in 3rd at Abu Dhabi.

  16. Lmao! Red Bull Racing should get a Darwin Award…

    1. Charles Darwin would be proud

  17. Mateschitz’s policy is laudable, but hopefully it doesn’t cost them a title. I like that Christian Horner has said that what happens in Abu Dhabi will be because of the decisions the drivers made, but it would be quite poetic if Ferrari lost the title because someone used team orders against them.

    That said, it would be great to see a situation where Vettel winds his engine down and lets Webber through with ten laps to go (so that it at least looks legitimate), only for Alonso’s engine to vomit itself across the circuit or to have him tablge with a backmarker. You’d then have Helmut Marko trying to order Webber to move over for Vettel, Webber ignoring it, Vettel kicking himself and trying to catch Webber and a brawl on the podium when the Australian comes through.

    1. back under your bridge, you!

      1. You can’t deny that Vettel moving over for Webber in the final laps, only to see Alonso retire would create a situation a undred times more interesting tan it already is.

        1. With that i can fully agree!

        2. Assuming Alonso is 3rd but far behind the RBRs, and Vet waves Mark through, it would make me laugh to see Alonso put his car into the wall just to **** of Vet!

    2. if Vettel doesn’t let Webber through and Alonso is 3rd behind Webber i hope next year they cant compete and it all go’ tits up for them.

      i will NOT be happy if Alonso wins this title because of the fact he was gifted those points way back when it was illegal to do so.

      im with you Prisoner Monkey give it to the Ozzie while they can, at least then they have won everything there is to be won.

      1. If I were Vettel, I’d have gone up to Webber and said “Okay, I’m Red Bull’s man through and through. So if I win in Brazil and give them the Constructors’ Championship, I’ll back you up at Abu Dhabi”.

        1. Every time you comment, the same thing comes out of your mouth. Don’t you have any other point of view apart from poor Massa that has been screwed by Alonso and Ferrari? That poor donkey your riding back is broken by now as the “IMPRISONED MONKEY” is shackled on it with a one track mind, shouting “Alonso cheating” and “down with Ferrari”. Look like your day is going to be spoiled on Sunday and Alonso comes to mind.

          1. You get used to it. Its his own little bit of Russian propoganda :P

            Just hit him in his weak spot. Hamilton is out because he is worse than Alonso.

          2. I love the irony of you posting that in reply to his one comment that doesn’t involve Ferrari at all.

            Between your comments and infy’s incorrect assumption he’s a Hamilton fan, together you really ballsed that up!

          3. I love the irony of you posting that in reply to his one comment that doesn’t involve Ferrari at all.

            I love the irony that people think Hamilton is my weakspot …

          4. Well it just gives an insight into the mindset, doesn’t it? They love Ferrari and hate Hamilton, you hate Ferrari, therefore…

            It chuckles me, it really does. We get people who come on here and complain about UK bias and they don’t see the irony that their assumption it’s all down to who you support or where you’re from is just as ignorant.

      2. You are not happy for Alonso. So Vettel should let Webber through so Webber can win. Is this your point?

        1. If one driver moves over for another, then I have no problem with it – provided that the driver who moves over does it by his choice and his alone.

          1. Massa had the choice not to move, but he did anyway.
            This does not mean there were no team orders, they are issued every single race by every single team. Some have to do with strategy, some with driver position, some are coded into messages as to make them less conspicuous, some are not. Whatever the case might be, no amount of bile will make a difference in the standing at present.
            Also, you do seem to be quite outspoken about your hate for Ferrari, are you, by any chance, Nigel Stepney?

    3. You just hit the nail on the head!

    4. you can be sure that if Vettel moves over for Webber it will be in the final corner of the final lap.

      1. Will it? What if we have a repeat of Abu Dhabi, where Alonso is catching Webber in the final few laps? There’s a very real chance that if Vettel has a sizeable lead and is forced to slow, Alonso will be able to sneak through. No, if Vettel lets Webber through, he’ll do it in a way that makes sure that he can preserve second place for Webber. Just to be safe.

        1. you must surely mean a repeat of Interlagos…

          It’s going to be tricky anyway. And if they switch and Alonso can’t zero on Vettel, he may be tempted to stall the car in the last lap just to give him food for thought.

  18. Anthony Davidson former F1 driver stated on the 5 live Brazil review podcast. The very thing that we have all known for some time. That Helmut Marko, who is in charge of RBR, has done everything he can to block Webber’s title chances so that Vettel can have every chance of winning the title.
    It is absolutely insulting to have Deitrich, Helmut and Horner tell us they treat their drivers equally. They have every right to favor Vettel and get behind him at the expense of Webber.
    It is their team they control it. I have just lost all respect for them because of their disgusting display of hypocrisy toward Ferrari and the way they have treated Webber as inferior to Vettel. Wasn’t WWII fought to put an end to this secretive German/Austrian superiority attitude.
    Helmut there are a lot of Australians that pay your check by drinking Red Bull. You have a funny way of thanking them.
    I now drink Rockstar energy drink instead of Red Bull. As of late Red Bull just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

    1. “Don’t mention the war.”

    2. We should start a campaingn to boycott Red Bull drinks and make this company go belly up as a way to protest the disrespecful way they have treated Webber for the whole year.

      1. I already started.
        When I go into a liquor/convenience store. I tell the person ringing me up why I am not buying Red Bull. In small stores like that the person ringing me up is usually the owner or the person that puts the orders in for the different kinds of energy drinks they sell. Trust me it gets back to the Red Bull salesperson. I worked for a beverage distributor a few years back.

        1. I don’t drink energy drinks, but I live in Australia, and I see Red Bull around the place, but I never seen any sort of mention of Webber on Red Bull advertising or packaging or anything. I remember seeing a picture from the UK with a picture of Vettel on the packaging. In Australia I dare say Webber would be more associated with Canberra Milk than Red Bull. Which brings me to another point, say it was Coca-Cola Racing, instead of Red Bull Racing, there would no way that Coca-Cola would let Webber do an ad for Canberra Milk (unless of course they owned Canberra Milk). Given that milk is a drink it is a competitor to Red Bull.

          1. go to your local servo. most seem to have a 6 pack of red bull with webber in an RB5 on the cardboard packaging. but that’s about it. no posters/bilboards that i’m aware of…

      2. Monster Energy drink sounds appealing. Don’t mind supporting the likes of Ken Block or even Mercedes GP.

        1. Stretch once again I like the way you think. Ken Block grew up about 15 minutes down the road from me. We use to run in some mutual circles.

          Here is the plan, you and Ozzy run the official campaign. Our slogan is Drink Monster Because Red Bull is Trying to Cheat Mark Webber out of the WDC.
          You guys can work out my office in Newport Beach. We encourage all reasonable F1 fans around the world to switch to Monster because of the way RBR has treated Webber. In 8 months Red Bull stock plummets.
          We get Ken to buy the team for pennies on the dollar. Ozzy you take Horners job, Stretch you take Helmut’s job, Ken is the new Deitrich and we get Kobeyashi to take Vettels spot and we keep everyone else. As for myself, I will spend all my time at the FIA explaining why Kobeyashi in every race has to hit every car he passes while working his way up the field.
          I need to come back down to reality. For a second there like deitrich, Helmut and Horner I started to believe my own B.S. LOL

          1. lol XD

            I dont drink energy drinks. They are terribly unhealthy, and all they do to me is make me twitch XD

          2. Jeez, running is some mutual circles with Ken Block, life doesn’t get much better.
            Sounds like a plan apart from I’m Aussie, a bit hard to travel to Newport Beach every day. And if I had Helmut’s job, Webber would have Vettels ‘better’ front wing. ;) And I’ll miss schoolies being overseas, and I can’t miss schoolies after 13 years of schooling.

            But apart from these set backs, it will show the marketing power of not “equally” supporting the RB drivers.

            On the other hand, Red Bull does support ALOT of other sports (motorcross, BMX, rallying, motoGP, surfing and other niche sports I cannot think of atm) that I enjoy (even though F1 is probs the most enjoyable) and they would be the first to go when RB start losing profits.

      3. I already do! I never buy anything that is square headed. Period.
        As far as Webber, I can imagine I difficult must have been to wade all year in such hypocris.
        It shows the true character of an Ozzie: let’s stop the crap and let’s go a win us a WDC.
        GO Webber GO!!!

    3. Helmut Marko, who is in charge of RBR, has done everything he can to block Webber’s title chances so that Vettel can have every chance of winning the title.

      Marko might want Vettel to win Red Bull’s first WDC, but there’s not much he can do about it anymore. Mateschitz wants the race to be a race even if it costs them a title, and Horner has said he’ll support whatever play Webber and Vettel decide amongst themselves.

      The only problem is that if Vettel wins, there’s going to be talk of conspiracy against Webber. And if Vettel lets Webber through – even if he does it completely off his own bat – Red Bull will look like hypocrites.

      1. they just can’t win. maybe a double retirement would be the most diplomatic solution…

        1. Yuppers, let them not show up at Yas Marina

        2. They can. There’s a reason why Ferrari sent a coded message in Germany: because they know someone is listening. And they knew the world could very well hear it. If Vettel gets on the radio and says “Okay, guys, I think I should let Webber through” and the team replies “It’s your choice” (or words to that effect), they’ll be in the clear.

          1. Anything on team radio, no matter how innocent it may sound, can be a prearranged coded message. So, people may read those lines differently. “It’s your choice” might mean “Yield or else…” and people would never know.

            BTW, Ferrari’s “coded” message was awfully coded. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to prearrange any message like “your brakes are overheating” or whatever to mean “OK, you MUST yield now”

      2. And you actually take what they all say at face value? Rather selective in your cynicism, eh?

        1. DeadManWoking
          9th November 2010, 15:03

          Crikey, the Noise Level on this Blog is so high that I had to disconnect my speakers!

    4. You’re missing the vodka, it makes it taste much better.

  19. We now know who’s camp the boss is in.

  20. funny how no one thinks Webber will out qualify Vettel, because he has been able to do it some of the time and im quite sure he is going to this coming Weekend.

    by the way teams are aloud to change positions, in the rules this late into the championship to effect the outcome of the title, even if Vettel lets Webber through he will not be punished for doing so.
    when Ferrari did it, it was against the rules hence the fine.
    yeah i know stupid isn’t it.

    1. It’s not stupid at all. A driver should have the right to compete for the championship. Massa was still a possibility of winning at the time, however remote. Ferrari shouldn’t have robbed him of that; he might not have dropped out of the running entirely with that second place, but it only make his job harder.

      1. I respectfully but completely disagree. Why do you have the right to deprive a driver of a Victory if you do not have the right to deprive him from a championship?
        This is not a discrete function, it is a continuum. Quantitative and not qualitative.
        Either Team or driver should be clear to everybody from day one, then as an employee (a driver) you have the right to choose the company (team) you work for.

        1. Why do you have the right to deprive a driver of a Victory if you do not have the right to deprive him from a championship?

          But they weren’t depriving Alonso of a championship. Even if he finished second at Hockenheim, he’d still be leading the championship. And Alonso was not being deprived of a race win by finishing second because the natural race order saw him in second. If he was deprived of a race win, it was because he could not pass Massa on his own.

          1. It was a rhetorical question :-)

            Anyhow, I am reffering to the right to deprive VETEL of a victory at Yas Marina. And I understand that you are ok with this.

          2. Sorry for double post. Monsol, just below, goes to my point in a much clearer manner.

    2. The rules ban team orders that affect the race outcome in every circumstance. They are exactly as forbidden now as they were in the Hockenheim GP.

      That said, a 100.000 fine would surely not stop a team from doing it. And if they do in a subtler way than Ferrari did they’ll probably avoid the fine anyway, as it will be harder to prove.

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