??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??

F1 Fanatic round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz has spelled out his team’s policy ahead of the season finale. Here’s today’s round-up:


Red Bull boss: No driver favouritism, I don?t care if we lose (James Allen)

??Let the two drivers race and what will be will be. if Alonso wins we will have been unlucky. I predict a Hollywood ending. Worst case scenario we don?t become champion? We?ll do it next year. But our philosophy stays the same because this is sport and it must remain sport. We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari do.??

Dieter Rencken previews “Senna” film (TopCar)

“Despite cutting it to 147 minutes the producers remained dissatisfied. Ultimately the production was edited to 104 minutes as demanded by Universal. In the process many gems were discarded, but the production trio compensated by retaining priceless moments and copious quantities of previously unseen/behind-the-scenes footage, including key incidents he was involved in, enquiries drivers? briefings and more intimate moments.”

David Hunt Exclusive On Team Lotus (The Race Driver)

“When they bought Group Lotus in late 1996 a lot of Malaysian dignitaries flew over to see the new purchase at a launch event. They were taken completely by surprise when they learned that their new trophy asset did not include an F1 racing team. It?s a bit like the Americans thinking they?d bought Tower Bridge only to find the old London Bridge on their doorstep. It seems the Malaysians had been lacking in their Due Diligence.”

Fernando Alonso ‘100%’ confident of winning F1 title (BBC)

“I just need to finish second. It doesn’t matter who wins in Abu Dhabi if I finish second.”

The Art of Simulation (Williams)

“Chris Partridge has been given rare access to the Williams Formula 1 team’s simulator.”

Paddock life: Interlagos edition (Autosport)

“Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali joked with the media that he had been ‘trembling’ with worry that the local fans would berate his team over what happened at Hockenheim, but instead they simply heaped all their antagonism on Fernando Alonso instead. It was amazing seeing Ferrari-shirted fans booing one of the Maranello drivers before cheering on the other one.”

Russia?s Vladimir Putin gives F1 car a whirl

“Vladimir Putin just cannot stay away from manly pursuits.”

Comment of the day

Lewis Hamilton anywhere other than McLaren is hard to imagine, but so was Michael Schumacher in a car that isn’t red. Chris P wonders if it could happen:

If you are at McLaren or Ferrari you know a championship winning car will come along every couple of years. Question is now with Red Bull having the quickest car for two years (challenging for the championship up to the wire in both years) will they continue to thwart the established teams? Will Mercedes be in the mix next year?

Hamilton should have won 2007, he won 2008, 2009 was impossible to win and this year without his run of three DNFs he probably should have 20-30 more points than he has. So in his four years in F1 he has gone into the last race with a chance of winning the WDC on three occasions. No one else has been in the same position. Should he seriously consider changing teams?
Chris P

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On this day in F1

Back in 2000 Ricardo Zonta and BAR parted on angry terms, the Brazilian telling the press:

Instead of finding support and comfort with Jacques Villeneuve and Craig Pollock, I found critical remarks which were unjustified. And from there the personal errors multiplied. I felt lost. I could not work as well as I fought to earn some points and return myself to the top.
Ricardo Zonta

After that Zonta made a handful of starts for Jordan and Toyota in 2002 and 2004.

He was deployed a substitute in Ralf Schumacher’s place at Indianapolis in 2005, but of course he never got to start the race.

Read more: United States Grand Prix 2005 Review

214 comments on “??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??”

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  1. I find it quite suspicious that Webber engine ‘heated’ having being run only 19 laps before in Korea. I think there is some sort of manipulation here as to stop Webber passing vettel.

    1. I do too, however when you look back it would be easy enough to see why:
      traffic, and the high altitude and reduced oxygen means the engine is working harder to produce less. I seem to remember the BBC guys mentioning earlier in the year the turbulent air is effective out to about 2 seconds gap, which WEB was running at for most of the race.

      Having said that, I couldn;t think of a more deserving person to win than WEB, and by all reports he is one of the most respected drivers in the paddock and deserves a WDC. I would hazard a guess and say if he did win, he won’t come back.

    2. That was just as sudden as Vettel’s massive engine blowout in Korea. A perfectly fine engine, well inside the mileage lifetime just disintegrated over 20 seconds.

  2. Since Alonso supports Ferrari’s anything-goes-to-win philosophy he’ll have no complaint when Vettel knocks his ass into the wall in turn one and Webber or Hamilton grab the title. Eh?

    Also, was that an electric F1 car that Putin was, supposedly, doing 150 mph in? I couldn’t hardly hear a sound and the video must’ve been in triple slo-mo.

    1. Yes of course, they are installing machine guns in the Ferrari nose to blow up everything in front of them. Is that what you mean by “anything-goes?”

      1. No, I was referring to one driver giving a position to another. That is hardly ethical and certainly isn’t in the definition of racing. F1 should return to single car teams and eliminate this entire controversy.

        1. Taking out a driver on purpose is quite in another league. Not that it hasn’t been done before, anyway. But it was worth a full-year DSQ for MSC in ’97 (Estoril) even though he never admitted having done it on purpose. It might mean 0 points for the full year for both RBR’s. And anyway Vettel would probably not want to ruin his race and reputation for the benefit of Webber. They probably would use ALG as a rear gunner, he seemed overly keen to block both ALO and HAM at Interlagos.

          Ferrari will have nothing to complain about if the RBR’s switch positions. People may not like it but it has been done any mumber of ocassions you can think of, and by almost every team. And it will continue to be done so get over it, the most you can expect it that it will be subtler.

  3. Mel Hutchinson
    9th November 2010, 5:22

    Red Bull racing’s Dietrich Mateschitz actually said “We don’t manipulate things like Ferrari do.” Really? Does he remember the British Grand Prix? I’ll remind him that after Sebastian Vettel’s front wing broke in the final free practice session they took the front wing off Mark Webber’s car and put it on Sebastian Vettel’s car. Christian Horner said ” the team had a duty to hand the wing to the driver who was leading the championship.” Maybe people who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    1. Spot on! Perfect analogy.

      1. Handing over a wing to handing over a win.. hey, it’s only one ‘g’ away! ;)

      2. I wonder how many times Alonso got the ‘new’ wing?

        1. Massa would have finished outside the points with the new wing anyways.

    2. The actual quote is:

      Therefore it came to me to make a difficult decision as to which car it went on. A situation like that is not ideal and it doesn’t happen very often. It went to Sebastian based on Championship position, his performance in P3 and the drivers’ feedback on the different front wings from yesterday.
      Christian Horner

      From this article.

      1. Yes, and the analysis before the qualifying showed that Webber didn’t benefit from the new front wing – his mechanic said that Webber didn’t even want it. So naturally RBR decides to put it on Vettels car. After the decision Webber or his fans and the British press use the event to create a situation where the team must give him better conditions in the future to make it look equal…
        But for most of You it doesn’t matter what Red Bull does – You hate them anyway. Even if they strongly favoured Webber and succeeded in getting him a championship after he himself threw his lead away in the wall in Korea, You would still hate Red Bull. You would somehow twist the events to fit Your scheme of Webber being almost always treated unjust in that team…
        Some of You are also criticizing Red Bull for not favouring Webber more in order to increase odds to win the WDC, but admit that if Vettel had the most points of those two, You would demand them to do exactly what they are doing now. So who is the hypocrites?
        I think it is the best medication against Ferrari lack of sporting morals to show the bravery to declare its “better to lose than to do a Ferrari”. This declaration sets Ferrari and the FIA’s scandalous small punishment in a blazing light;-)

  4. I hope all u guyz against the NO TEAM ORDER Red bull policy, understand this, Ferrari & Red bull as brands have a critical difference of objectives as to why they are in this sport, Red bull is a mass appeal brand and driven more less by marketing & Brand decisions whereas Ferrari (forget Santander & Shell) are driven by win a race regardless decisions.

    That’s why all this debate and word of mouth generated by team orders, ironically benefits both Red bull and Ferrari, in their respective markets, Red bull have proved beyond reasonable doubt to its consumers that they are sport, kool, fair and energy. On the other hand Ferrari consumers are like their brand, they are ruthless, gross, show offs, and don’t care about anything but winning, look at your neighbor who owns a Ferrari? U think he or she cares about sport, morals or fair play
    Red bull is 99.9 marketing…….THEY HAVE ALREADY WON
    The real losers are us the McLaren’s we have missed out on word of mouth and debate all of a sudden we don’t exist

    1. If that means Alonso wins the WDC, then good stuff!

  5. I Love Red Bull
    It gives you wings…
    No Wait….sometimes it takes away too…
    but i still love it….
    Go VetBer Go Webtel…

  6. Fantastic, Ferrari will have more opportunities. But I do not think they (Red Bull) will act like that.

    1. “Fantastic, Ferrari will have more opportunities.”

      After being beaten to the constructors title by a soft drinks manufacturer, they certainly need to be making the most of any “opportunities”, illegal or otherwise.

      Go Massa! But don’t forget those immortal words: “Fernando-is-faster-than-you”

      I can hardly wait for the: “If it wasn’t for blah blah blah” arguments on Sunday. LOL

      1. Of course there will be plenty of “if whatever…” arguments next Sunday, it’s simply human nature. And in such a contested championship there’s plenty of food for it. Any of the four present contenders would have the WDC several races ago if their driving mistakes/mech failures/arguable penalties had been avoided BUT not their rivals’.

        But anyway, give it enough “ifs” and “buts” and even Sakon YAmamoto could have won the present WDC.

        1. Or my granny LOL

  7. I hope everyone understands that he is only saying that because Vettle is second to Webber.

    We all know that his man is Vettel and that’s who he wants to win.

    Should Vettel be leading the championship i know for sure he would keep his mouth shut…

  8. in an exclusive interview with Peter Windsor.

    Even though I’ve been a Lotus fan since the early 1960s I was always a bit nervous about the whole “Lotus returns to F1” story this year because nothing – in the early months – seemed to ring true.

    Says Peter Windsor.

    It is to laugh.

  9. Relax everyone he’s just saying that to save himself being slapped with a $100000 ‘bill’ when they swap places at the next race. :-)

  10. Aussie Fan,
    THERE WILL BE NO TEAM ORDERS I can guarantee U THAT, RB(corporate) has achieved, its core marketing objective, however, what we need to watch out for is weather the RB racing team, has been sold into the RB(corporate philosophy) This is where the problem might be for team Red Bull. The internal customers i.e. the engineers etc might not be on the same page with the corporate mgt group and we can’t underestimate this conflict, marketing group Vs racing team…
    Ofcos the best scenario would be them winning the world championship as well…BUT NOT AT THE EXPENSE OF the Red bull brand ideology…remember Red bull is in so many other sport events esp extreme sport, this is only part of their overall strategy so they can afford to risk it (the f1 world championship)

  11. everyone seems to take for granted that RB will lead the race and they will be in a position to switch the drivers for a win and eventually a championship..but what if it won’t be like that?what if they have another Korea or if Webber finishes 4th or 5th and it would be enough (with Alonso having problems) or if they would all have to fight from the back, like last year?..

    considering how RB’s season has been in terms of them dominating races, it is a possibility they won’t have a dream 1-2 and that there are plenty of other permutations

    1. Well of course anything can happen, but everybody is commenting the RBRs in front, ALO behind situation because that’s the interesting one. And also quite a likely one, as qualis are going this year.

      ALO can also repeat the Korea grand chelem, or stall at start and be unable to race, or maybe the RBR’s and HAM can’t pass Q1 because of a sudden change in weather… etc. But then all excitement would be gone,

  12. redbull, atleast, have never gone off the track to manipulate the race results. Changing front wing was one thing and the time it happened the team had an option. Nothing illegal. I wonder if like those bed time my granny used to tell, alonso has major problems with the car on raceday and the redbull guys fighting for the championship…

  13. Yes Dietrich, you don’t manipulate things like Ferrari ie. openly for everyone to see. You do it more like McLaren…… :-)

    1. hmmmm…….where will this blatant “manipulation” of the results ever stop?

      I did hear that Hamilton got a slighly better steering wheel on his car for one race, and that they forgot to polish Button’s car for another. *rolls eyes*

      1. yes thats right VXR.. “Lewis, turn down the revs”
        Lewis – “has jenson got the same message” and then Button overtakes..
        don’t make me laugh..
        Lewis’ car does look more shiny tho,,,

        1. It’s not quite the same as: “Fernando-is-faster-than-you” is it. ;)

          Drivers are told all the time to use different fuel settings etc. Just like Massa was told to turn down is engine down IIRC. LOL

  14. “We don’t manipulate things like Ferrari” – Mateschitz

    He should say: “We don’t manipulate things… unless Vettel could need it”

    I like Alonso and Ferrari as a team, but if Webber wins he will be the driver who most deserve this title.

    Keith, off topic, but Mobile version it’s really a headache:

    Doesn’t shows sub-headings so looking for Daily round up is looking for the first one of the day and pray for having good luck.

    Comments: Replays are no grouped so it’s not possible to follow them properly.

    And the most important thing: I’m using an iPhone and your system do not allows me to change to full version.

    Conclusion: I’m visiting this site much less than previously and much less than I would like to.

  15. It’s a bit like the Americans thinking they’d bought Tower Bridge only to find the old London Bridge on their doorstep.

    I’d like to point out that’s an urban myth ;)

    I can’t believe this has so many comments already. There is no way Vettel is going to risk his master’s ire by not moving over if he has to and there’s no way Red Bull are going to tell him to. End of story. Anyone whining about Mateschitz and hypocrisy congratulations, you just fell for it like chumps. Like Dumb-Factor fans raging about whatever it is happened on that show on the weekend, if you’re angry you deserve to be.

    I remember in 2007 Max Mosley said he didn’t want Hamilton ton win the championship because it would be tainted by Spygate. If people are this bothered about Red Bull, perhaps all three of them should just crash and fail their way out of contention and hand it over to someone else. I would dearly love to see that happen, not just for my own sake but to see all of this gas blow up in people’s faces. It would be fitting if the championship was won not by letting people people past but to the only guy who’s made a pass for the lead (twice) on one of his rivals.

    1. and who couldn’t pass Hulk on track while some other driver passed both of them

    2. How would he risk his bosses ire, he had their whole hearted support when he crashed into Webber in Turkey. Helmut Marko isn’t going to get angry at Sebastian when he’s the only success story from his very expensive Young Driver Development Program.
      Anyway, whether they make the switch all depends on the situation in the race. If Vettel is leading and Alonso is 3rd, how will Seb anger his bosses if he isn’t going to win the championship anyway. Webber may not be in favour at Red Bull at the moment, but they would still rather him than Alonso.

      1. I didn’t realise Helmut Marko was Team Principal or the owner.

        If Seb doesn’t give the championship to a Red Bull, his real bosses will be angry. Forget the PR BS.

    3. It would be fitting if the championship was […] to the only guy who’s made a pass for the lead.

      Great idea. Forget about getting first to the flag and scoring the most points, that’s kiddie stuff. Let’s hand it over to the one who overtakes the most. You won straight from pole? bad news my friend, you might as well have stayed at home.

      Why not give the WDC to the most poles or the most flaps instead?. Better yet, decide the WDC on a round of hold’em poker, or give it to whoever gets the most friends in Facebook. They would save the expense of going through all the races.

  16. I have to admit: the RBR bias for Vettel is becoming ridicilous:

    Seb obviously gets the better material! The DNFs are all self inflicted just to make Mark look bad! Spoiled brat, 60+ points wasted and still in the running.

    The psychical pressure on Mark (who is driving the fastest and most reliable car in the WC lineup but still having to fight for the WC to the last race) must be enormous, slowing him down even more it seems! Poor guy.

    And still, even though he needs all the help he can get, the ‘straight talking aussie’ shows his soul & feelings (and Fabios i assume) to the world over and over again! Thats class & character!

    Webber for WC!

    1. Seb obviously gets the better material

      He’s lost 70-odd points to mechanical failures this year. Webber has hardly lost any by comparison.

      1. I wasn’t sarcastic enough?

        1. Nah, you laid it on pretty thick. Still, though, seems to me like Webber would know better than us what the atmosphere in the team is and outward signs of RBR support have all gone to Vettel. In any case, if not for completely unprovoked mistakes they would both be way ahead of the competition.

          1. Could you imagine that RBR (Horner, the mechanics, etc.) feel a little bit responsible for the 60+ points lost?

            Not easy to say: sorry we ****** up your season – and Mark would like to overtake. You don’t mind right?

            Webber, by playing the press card like that, made stuff really difficult for Horner.

          2. Like I said, mechanichal failures or not, if they didn’t make totally avoidable mistakes on the track they wouldn’t be in this situation. Reliability is what it is. Vettel has only himself to blame if he isn’t champion already, same goes for Webber. Besides, how many times have we heard it said that some drivers are too hard on their cars? perhaps there is a reason Vettel’s had more failures.

      2. For the shake of being sarcastic (there is always something beyond it), by your rationale the deserving winners are Senna, Di Grassi, et al. because they have lost up to 450 points so far due to bad mechanics.

        I think that you cannot justify anything on the machine failing since the machine is ultimately the biggest factor in this sport (or do we think that any one of the 4 contenders would have done anything on HRT/Lotus/Virgin)?

        And reliability (even if we assume no driver influence) is as much part of it as an f-duct or the flexibility of the wings.

        1. You can only compare team mates like that: equal material.

          Considering the difference in reliability between both RBR drivers its ridicilous that Mark still drives against Seb for the WC.

          1. IF (big if) materials for team mates are equal, allowing you to compare, then….. Sebs destroys machinery big time compared to Marc…

  17. People seem to forget that Red Bull have come a very long way in a very short space of time. Torro Rosso were ahead of them or at least their equal only 3 years ago and both drivers are a credit to the sport.

    To say Alonso wouldve won the title twice at Red Bull is missing the huge point that his mind set when not number one is deeply flawed. Hes a perfect match for Ferrari.

    Great season made better by Red Bull not favouring one driver. Maybe thats forgotten also.

  18. All RBR have spoken of the last few days is team orders and I’m not sure if I still admire their stance or am finding them a little desperate for keep going on about it although no doubt, it’s the journalists constantly putting the question to them.

    I still think it’ll be Webber who wins. I’m never superstitious or believe in luck in life but when it comes to F1 things (bar the odd year) tend to balance themselves out so I can’t help but feel Fernando will lose and RBR won’t swap and Webber will still win. Although given that Webber’s had no failures this year it would be bonkers if they did switch and Web was set to win and then his engine blew up but that would be so cruel.

    1. Kimi's Ice-Cream
      9th November 2010, 11:18

      Mark’s engine blow up is long overdue, it’s unfair that only Seb gets them. Unless it’s something wrong in Seb’s driving style, for which there’s no evidence. Harpooning a backmarker Valencia style or a bad start (his speciality) are some other possibilities. A skid in the wet Korean fashion is however kinda unlikely in Abu Dhabi.

      Alo got his engine blown up last Friday (harmlessly for him, lol) so he’s not due another one until well into 2011.

      1. Vettel has only ever had one engine blow up. The others were a gremlin and a brake failure.

        Alonso’s engine was at the end of its natural life-span, it wasn’t a freak failure.

    2. I really hope Webber doesn’t win the title. Out of the top 3, he is the least deserving of the title this year. All year, he has used the media to manipulate the team to favour him, although the only reason he has been ahead of his team-mate is because of his team-mate’s reliability issues.

      A driver who has had the fastest and most reliable car for the entire season, should not be whining for team orders.

      And a driver who has been out-raced and out-qualified by his team mate for 5 races in a row does not deserve the title at all. While Vettel and Alonso haven’t been perfect all season, atleast the reason they are not ahead in the championship standings can be traced down to mistakes and car failures in case of Vettel and mistakes and incompetent car in case of Alonso. Whereas Webber has no excuse. His team might not have made the best judgement post Turkey, but that did not affect him the slightest. He is a street-smart fellow, and quick with one-liners – not bad for a number 2 driver. The Turkey debacle did not slow him down psychologically at all. Even the British GP debacle ultimately played into his hands. Yes, he is not Red Bull’s chosen son, but he has been given the same equipment as his team-mate, except for British GP – which ultimately did not affect him at all.

      1. You are right, except the story with the front wing – Webbers mechanic said that he didn’t want it, because he didn’t improve with it.

  19. you cant speculate that they’d have moved webber over if vettel were leading. Or rather, you can, but it has no particular credibility. Yep, Vettel got a part at Silverstone but as Keith has stated, Webber has had the reliability. The perception maybe one thing and often perception is everything but what happens in front of the camera doesnt necessarily mirror what goes on behind it.

  20. RB have put themselves into a stupid corner.

    Most people prefer Webber to win the DWC. If Vettel suports webber, they are evil and liars. If Vettel goes for himself, they are stupid and unkind to hero-webber.

    A right decision at the right moment, like say… germany, makes you look focused and team aware. People like consistency.

    1. They also like to have a sporting contest and not something that smacks of big business manipulating the outcome.

      Ferrari already lost ‘it’s’ championship to a soft drinks manufacturer. At least let us have the pleasure of watching drivers actually race for the other one.

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