??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??

F1 Fanatic round-up

Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz has spelled out his team’s policy ahead of the season finale. Here’s today’s round-up:

Links

Red Bull boss: No driver favouritism, I don?t care if we lose (James Allen)

??Let the two drivers race and what will be will be. if Alonso wins we will have been unlucky. I predict a Hollywood ending. Worst case scenario we don?t become champion? We?ll do it next year. But our philosophy stays the same because this is sport and it must remain sport. We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari do.??

Dieter Rencken previews “Senna” film (TopCar)

“Despite cutting it to 147 minutes the producers remained dissatisfied. Ultimately the production was edited to 104 minutes as demanded by Universal. In the process many gems were discarded, but the production trio compensated by retaining priceless moments and copious quantities of previously unseen/behind-the-scenes footage, including key incidents he was involved in, enquiries drivers? briefings and more intimate moments.”

David Hunt Exclusive On Team Lotus (The Race Driver)

“When they bought Group Lotus in late 1996 a lot of Malaysian dignitaries flew over to see the new purchase at a launch event. They were taken completely by surprise when they learned that their new trophy asset did not include an F1 racing team. It?s a bit like the Americans thinking they?d bought Tower Bridge only to find the old London Bridge on their doorstep. It seems the Malaysians had been lacking in their Due Diligence.”

Fernando Alonso ‘100%’ confident of winning F1 title (BBC)

“I just need to finish second. It doesn’t matter who wins in Abu Dhabi if I finish second.”

The Art of Simulation (Williams)

“Chris Partridge has been given rare access to the Williams Formula 1 team’s simulator.”

Paddock life: Interlagos edition (Autosport)

“Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali joked with the media that he had been ‘trembling’ with worry that the local fans would berate his team over what happened at Hockenheim, but instead they simply heaped all their antagonism on Fernando Alonso instead. It was amazing seeing Ferrari-shirted fans booing one of the Maranello drivers before cheering on the other one.”

Russia?s Vladimir Putin gives F1 car a whirl

“Vladimir Putin just cannot stay away from manly pursuits.”

Comment of the day

Lewis Hamilton anywhere other than McLaren is hard to imagine, but so was Michael Schumacher in a car that isn’t red. Chris P wonders if it could happen:

If you are at McLaren or Ferrari you know a championship winning car will come along every couple of years. Question is now with Red Bull having the quickest car for two years (challenging for the championship up to the wire in both years) will they continue to thwart the established teams? Will Mercedes be in the mix next year?

Hamilton should have won 2007, he won 2008, 2009 was impossible to win and this year without his run of three DNFs he probably should have 20-30 more points than he has. So in his four years in F1 he has gone into the last race with a chance of winning the WDC on three occasions. No one else has been in the same position. Should he seriously consider changing teams?
Chris P

From the forum

Wanted: your ideas for improving the F1 Fanatic live blogs.

Site updates

We’ve had some problems with spam in the forum recently, thanks to everyone who’s warned me about spam threads and thanks also to TommyB89 for getting rid of some of them.

I’ve made some changed to the anti-spam system which will hopefully help alleviate the problem.

Happy birthday!

No F1 Fanatic birthdays today. If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Back in 2000 Ricardo Zonta and BAR parted on angry terms, the Brazilian telling the press:

Instead of finding support and comfort with Jacques Villeneuve and Craig Pollock, I found critical remarks which were unjustified. And from there the personal errors multiplied. I felt lost. I could not work as well as I fought to earn some points and return myself to the top.
Ricardo Zonta

After that Zonta made a handful of starts for Jordan and Toyota in 2002 and 2004.

He was deployed a substitute in Ralf Schumacher’s place at Indianapolis in 2005, but of course he never got to start the race.

Read more: United States Grand Prix 2005 Review

Advert | Go Ad-free

214 comments on ??We don?t manipulate things like Ferrari??

  1. Sanjay said on 9th November 2010, 15:14

    we don’t manipulate like Ferrari does since Sebastian is not leading the championship.

    • Ferrari are only doing what they usually do. Unfortunately for them it gets noticed a lot more than it used to, especially now that t’internet’s around. People don’t like it, and F1 history to spotty teenagers and casual viewers means nothing.

      Ferrari were lucky to get away with what they got away with. And they know it!

  2. antonyob said on 9th November 2010, 16:52

    “…return to one car teams”

    what period was that then?

  3. Tom T said on 9th November 2010, 20:48

    RB needs to show Ferrari some respect. The F1 grid would be empty without the red cars and nobody would watch them win a title. They should be happy competing with Ferrari for it. I wish I could write exactly what Niki Lauda stated before the start of the race on German TV. It was something like “A ferrari title is adding value to the titles won by other teams before or after it”.
    Another point is that if they didn’t have a such a superior car this year thanks to AN, their 2 “champs” would be fighting eachother in the midfield (of course no team orders…). While if you see what Alonso is doing compared to Massa, you see a truly fantastic driver’s performance. Or Kubica, or Hamilton or even Kobayashi. I want to see how RB will act in a tougher year.
    cheers, t

    • That’s funny! :)

      I remember that for a period of 21 years Ferrari didn’t win a drivers title. For most of that 21 year period they were the laughing stock of the top teams. People actually started to feel sorry for them.

      But they battled on, and people respected them for that. But now there’s an arrogance about them that leaves a bitter taste. It wouldn’t bother me too much if Kimi’s title was the last they have (or should I say, he has) for some time.

      Also, IMO Alonso’s 2010 performance is merely average compared to his previous 4 years performances.

      Great driver that he is, I do hope he doesn’t win this one.

  4. MahavirS said on 9th November 2010, 21:03

    I hope RB can accept the fact that the title was within their grasp and they blew an opportunity to claim both the championships. They should’ve backed Webber ever since he was ahead. Even now they should back Webber. Carrying a holier than thou attitude isn’t going to help RB. Who knows what next year might bring. Maybe Mercedes will step up or Mclaren or Ferrari might get better. Really lame by RB in my opinion.

  5. BillHicks said on 9th November 2010, 21:33

    I’ll clear up the confusion here and now: Ferrari are cheats and everyone knows it. Even the fevered Ferrari fans… they put it to the back of their minds and make lame, lame excuses, but they know Ferrari are cheats. No other team has brought so much shame and ridicule to a sport. Long live the honorable gentlemen of sport, rather than these ‘win at all costs’ show-off prancing-ponies.

    • Ricky Bobby said on 9th November 2010, 22:09

      Let those who are without sin cast the first stone…

      No other team has brought so much glory and excitement to the sport, and all Ferrari bashers know that even if they put in the back of their minds. Without Ferrari would be a sorry joke and everybody knows that, ven if they hate it.

      Pretty much every team has always tried to “win at all costs”, but when they fail they take on the Scuderia, because it wins. Sour grapes…

      In every race you can see plenty of red Ferrari flags, but the Macca and RBR flags are nowhere to be seen. QED.

      • When Ferrari cheated, they were far from leading, and many of us, who got very angry with the cheating did so out of principle, not because it was Ferrari who did it or whatever. I fully respect that Alonso is a very very talented driver, but his sporting morale is even worse than bicycle riders using EPO. Why? Because indications are that all the bicycle riders in the top uses some kind of doping. Alonso did all he could to make Ferrari issue the TO, despite the rules and the fact that other teams don’t just do it every now and then. It is not a question of You are leading the series or not – it is a question of rules. I watched F1 all year under the assumption that the rules are fixed and stated. When I suddenly realised they are not, I feel deceived by FIA. The punishment should have been the Black Flag to both Ferrari drivers in Germany… Why? Because the worst consequence for Ferrari had Alonso tried to overtake Massa could have been a crash taking both cars out of the race.
        But wait and see – Abu Dhabi will surprise us all with an unexpected result.
        The reason why You see all the red flags is that if You ask the average person what they think of first when You say Sports Car, they think of a red Ferrari – the brand is an Icon, a beautiful Icon with a great history. So much more sad, that they disgrace the name with this unsporting conduct.

  6. We Want Turbos said on 10th November 2010, 2:51

    Just my 2 peneth! Red Bull favour Vettel, fact. But they didn’t break any rules. Ferrari cheated! End of. The comments are hypocritical but RB had to choose 1 driver to take the wing. If memory serves me correct the wing failed (wasn’t driver caused) so as vettel is team leader he got the wing. So on this point you can understand why the team did it. Having said all this go Webber 4 title Alonso/Vettel don’t deserve it for me!

  7. Peter said on 10th November 2010, 4:03

    Start a poll? What lap will Vettel pull over for Webber?

  8. All sorts of outcomes can be: Alonso tangles with Lewis and they both suffer. Vettel gets another DNF due to technical reasons or he and Webber tangle up and one or both of them suffer. Lewis can still win this, but I agree its not very likely.
    The worst would be – IMO – if some midfield or backmarker driver error causes one of the leading contenders to lose his chances, either by blocking during Quali or by accident during the race. Or if it happens to Alonso I could argue that it sort of evens out the advantage he gained from the cheating in Germany.

  9. antonyob said on 10th November 2010, 10:54

    What,with all respect, a load of rubbish. Ferrari want Ferrari to win the WDC and constructors championship and their workers do anything that attains that goal.

    If you have to lay down then you have to lay down. The rule, a daft one, was brought in hurriedly because most of the media dont get F1 and a few bookes and armchair fans whinged. Anyone who knows the sport properly accepts a driver may have to support the other depending on the scenario. Ferrari called it right and Massa is a patsy frankly.

    The cycling analogy is ridiculous and comparing it to drugs cheats is idiotic in the extreme.

    • Antonyob: You claim that Ferrari workers do anything to win? What will then be the next rules they break? All sporting events have to be governed by a set of rules, otherwise it will turn into a gang war. And as a paying spectator I have a legal right to expect the rules to be obeyed and that the governing body do their utmost to make sure the participants play the “game” within the rules. FIA has let us all down on this. And it doesn’t matter that YOU think that everyone knows this rule is only a show to satisfy some of the fans and the press. Do You also think that many other rules and laws in society only applies to others or don’t apply at all? If a rule is there, then the FIA must enforce a fair punishment for breaking it. End of story.

  10. antonyob said on 10th November 2010, 12:46

    were you at Hockenheim then? did you pay money for a ticket in germany and feel robbed??

    i draw the line at this rule. its quite simple, you have 2 cars, you use them how you wish. “legal right” wow, you think? i dont. And what sort of argument is “if you let them do this they will break any rules” – its no sort of argument thats what.

    What alot of emotional bluster. Never been a ferrari fan but i think i will cheer them just a bit more if Alonso wins Sunday. And perhaps F1 could do with losing a few fans. The armchair tail has been wagging the f1 dog for too long.

  11. Kayumanggi said on 10th November 2010, 13:37

    This goes to show the difference between a competitive powerhouse such as Scuderia Ferrari and a young and lucky team such as Red Bull. Mateschitz is already happy with what they have accomplished in such a short time.

    The truth with Ferrari is that Alonso has more in himself to win a drivers championship than Massa. Because if they have equal skills, then we would be having six drivers racing for the WDC. Of course, that’s not what is happening now. And Alonso would have passed his teammate, anyway. A 1-2 finish may be lost right there, so what do you do? They’re driving literally the same car, aren’t they?

    If that were so, Ferrari would not have been penalized in Germany. And Horner would not be blaming the team’s directors if Webber and Vettel lose to Alonso because they decided to support both drivers. And it’s true that both their drivers are talented. That’s the Red Bull situation. They almost killed each other in Turkey, and right there it looked liked a confirmation that they are supporting Vettel more than Webber. Now if only Webber held his pride and mouth, then we would have seen differently. This is quite similar in McLaren. But it is not the same at the Ferrari camp.

    Many spectators think they know how to run a team and make crucial split-second decisions because they are never part of it. And they would have never imagined the consequences involved and the pressure during that time. More so, they never know what is going on. Sure, they are protesting that the spirit of racing, or the passion of the sport has been violated. But, racing is not a cheap past-time. If you want to survive and race another grand prix, you need to be realistic and you gotta count all the dimes and cents. They want a further penalty for Ferrari simply because they don’t like Ferrari. Losers. This is even after the WMSC has spoken.

  12. In fact, he’s lying because his Rally Team, i.e. RedBull Citröen, have used team orders all this year and they are world champions and they don’t seem to worry.

    This year, one of their drivers, made a fault intentionality to begin the first and clean the road for Loeb who was the first because it was his turn to go first. Then he went second because of this blatant team orders.

    You can say that in Rally it is allowed and I say yes, it’s true, but RBR it’s not talking about rules but about being fair and sportive, which is really to get ill.

    Everybody is paying now for the words used before. The only one who is keeping his position is Ferrari.

    • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 10th November 2010, 14:41

      Are team orders illegal in rallying?

      Also, I thought they were just a sponsor, they don’t actually run the team?

      • IRC have team orders, not sure about the other lot.

        Here is what Fiat (yes Fiat) were considering back in September in Sanremo.

        “Team orders could happen but the most important thing is to be on top of the ranking at the end of day two of the rally,” said Basso. “So far this season I’ve not had a good feeling with the car but I hope I can gain a better feeling here in Sanremo, which is a race I like. We have the wide-track Abarth Grande Punto, which is an improvement on the previous car, especially in the dry.”

        And I don’t think that RedBull actually own Citroen do they?

      • Well, it’s really different if you are not the owner, that’s true. But a team also represents its sponsors values.

        And about illegality of facts:

        You can say that in Rally it is allowed and I say yes, it’s true, but RBR it’s not talking about rules but about being fair and sportive, which is really to get ill.

        I keep on saying that they have that strategy just because how the things have gone along the year and what things they said along the year.

        I’ll also say:
        After watching how things went and how they have their drivers and the championship (about 3 reaces ago) they decided to talk loud about Alonso and his “victory” in hockenheim, then now they are trapped in their own trap, because they probably have to do another blatant “Massa” next sunday. And if they don’t do that and lose the championship nobody really will think they are the best, or the more sportive team on the world.

  13. BillHicks said on 10th November 2010, 20:31

    Aaaaanyway…. Ferrari still cheat and everyone knows it. Like I said, the fans dress it up with all sorts of do-dads and shiny things and talk of ‘spirit’, lame lame lame, but it’s still plain old dirty cheating, and anything won by a cheat is worth far less than coming last honestly. If Alonso wins he’ll know this and I take comfort from that!

  14. Antonyob: You are not even able to quote me correctly, and Your arguments are flawed and non coherent… You are clearly a Ferrari fan who don’t want to accept the fact that Ferrari blatantly broke a rule in F1, thus giving them an advantage in the points. And the rule was even invented because Ferrari used TO too blatantly in 2002, so of all teams, they should have stayed on the right side of this rule…
    And my opinion isn’t necessary worth less, even if I never go to watch an F1 race live. But now it happens so that I was in the rain in Spa – great race, by the way – and I’m very glad that I didn’t know the lame FIA verdict over Ferrari’s cheat until after the race in Spa.
    If a team is able to spend the money and resources to attend the F1 series the least I can expect is that they are able to read and understand the rules, and accept a punishment, when they deserve one. Instead Ferrari did all they could to force FIA into leaving the punishment with the 100 k$.
    Why don’t You try to argue why FIA didn’t punish Ferrari with more than a fine of 100k$, that would be something new to me?
    To Kayumanggi: In the case where Ferrari cheated, they talked to Fernando more than once and they made the TO many times to Felipe, before he yielded – no crucial split second decision over that. So don’t try that excuse – in this case it doesn’t apply…

Add your comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments must abide by the comment policy. Comments may be moderated.
Want to post off-topic? Head to the forum.
See the FAQ for more information.